EPISODE #931 WetSpace, Crypto & Taking on Big Tech Allie Rae

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today is going to be a podcast about crypto, big tech and adult entertainment. And you might say, what the heck, Dave? This is a biohacking show. Why would you have an episode like this? And the reason is that I want to talk about choice and freedom and why I think it's fundamentally important that you can make a living doing whatever you want to do without restriction and mostly without judgment, because there will always be douchebags who judge, but it doesn't matter. Their judgment shouldn't affect your ability to do what you want to do. So we're going to learn about entrepreneurship, specifically within the adult sex entertainment business. We're going to talk about Wet Space, which is something that came about after OnlyFans just one day woke up and said, oh, we're not going to support the people who make their living on our platform. And we're going to talk about how you can run business around and outside of the world of big tech. This is important even if you have no interest in adult entertainment, because, well, big tech has way too much power right now, and there are ways to do things and go around them. And I think all of us are going to need more of that over the next few years. So this is entrepreneurship. It's adult entertainment. It's about dealing with judgment and dealing with unreasonable restrictions on fundamental human freedoms. Plus, it's going to be a fun show. Anyway, our guest today is someone who really came up against this very, very clearly. Her name is Ali Rae. She's a wife, mother, retired nurse, Navy veteran, and CEO of Wet Space. And you've probably heard about OnlyFans by now. Wet Space is not a direct competitor, but it's similar. And this is what happens when an entrepreneur says, what I need isn't available, I'm going to make it. And that is what I did with clean coffee. And that is what many other guests on the show have done where they talk about, huh, the way the current industry does it is not working. So I'm just going to have to fix it myself. This is the highest value of entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurs solve problems that don't have solutions. Right now, there's another kind of wantrepreneur who just copies other people's stuff, and those are generally bad people. So I try to avoid copycat entrepreneurs from the show, but I like original innovators, and Ali Rae is definitely one of those. And I love that there's a crypto angle here. Ali Ray, welcome to the show.

Thank you so Much for having me.

You've had an interesting path here from the Navy to nursing. How did you end up where you are now? It seems like quite an odyssey.

Oh, it is. You know, I went into the Navy at a very young age. I was only 17 years old, so I had to have my, you know, my parents kind of allow me to go in, and it, you know, it set me up. It taught me a lot about life and success and. And more importantly, in my opinion, you know, just professionalism and what I believe led me to, you know, be able to have this success and entrepreneurship that I have today. I ended up. Once I got out, I went into nursing school. It was always my passion to be a nurse. I was a NICU nurse and ICU for neonates. I was fantastic at it, and I loved it. I loved everything about it. But during the pandemic, I started to do. You know, my husband worked for the airlines, so. So he got furloughed, and we kind of lost an income. And I had already had an Instagram where I was doing beer reviews and just like a vlog. And so many people would talk about this, only fans, and I had no idea what it was. But to make a long story short, I ended up kind of toying around with it and did very well on it on my very first month. It was something that I hid from my personal life. I didn't talk about it at work. I was highly respected on my unit, very educated. I actually had my doctorate degree. I was going on to do neonatal research, and I was discovered. A couple other nurses actually found out what I was doing on the side, and it ultimately cost me my job. And I advocated for myself for quite a while because it certainly was. Wasn't something that I felt was impacting the way that I was caring for my patients, et cetera. But I was faced with an ultimatum to discontinue what I was doing on the side or, you know, I would not be able to work on my unit anymore. It was a really unpleasant experience. It went on for many months, and, you know, ultimately I chose to leave and continue to do OnlyFans.

Is that legal?

Looking back on, it, certainly wasn't legal. Their angle that they took was that it was a distraction to the unit, which I don't argue that at that point it wasn't, but I didn't cause that distraction. You know, this was other members, other nurses that had brought it to everyone's attention. I was mortified when people found out. I never wanted anyone to know what I was doing. So it was a distraction on the unit. And it's not like I got fired, but I was given an ultimatum. And for me, the environment was so toxic at that point. I definitely wasn't respected as much on the unit as I used to be. And so it was the right thing for me to do. Not to mention financially, the way on Onlyfans, I mean, I was, I was doing very well. I was very close to a million a year at that point. And so I didn't need to be there financially, you know, and I think that was a very difficult decision to me. A lot of people judged me for that, for putting money before my passion. But we're not talking a little bit of money. This was, this was life changing.

And also it's how you take care of your family is by being a breadwinner. And I have a real hard time if what you're doing outside of work has nothing to do with work. It's one thing if you're running a blog on criticizing neonatal intensive care nurses, which are, by the way, the highest trained of all nurses. And it's a really tough job. So if you're doing something that's competitive or critical, but something unrelated, that seems like they probably crossed some HR boundaries there. But it definitely say you made a big splash in even mainstream news about this because you're talking about real amounts of money and talking about getting fired for doing something. If you look at what Pornhub does in terms of traffic, you look at OnlyFans, clearly there's a demand for this and you're saying, all right, I like doing it and it's, it's profitable. What's the deal? So do you think that the two people who came up and were all critical and coming after you, if you had to hypothesize without knowing, are these people who were highly programmed by churches, by abusive parents, what makes people act that way?

Yeah, well, learning now. It was actually a group of about five different people. I've learned this now, and I do know one of which was the wife of a, of a pastor. So I imagine there was some religious component to that. And then the others, I, you know, I've asked myself that question, like, why would you care what I'm doing? Why do you feel so strongly about this? But I, I can't really answer to what the stigma is or what, you know, their driving force behind that besides being quote unquote, Karens or mean girls. I definitely have encountered more religious criticism than anything that's certainly been I mean, I've had that even after the fact with like accountants or CPAs that have told me they can't work with me. It's very interesting at how deep, you know, some of those beliefs go in the level of criticism that there is. But yeah, I mean, it's a variety of things.

It's funny because churches don't have to pay taxes. Have you ever thought of making white space into a church?

Right.

I mean, you could.

Not a bad idea.

Just worship at this altar.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because this profession, which, trust me, I'm not going to deny that in the past I have no background in this. Okay. So I too probably used to have preconceived notions of people in the porn industry or what people were doing. And so there's a level to me that understands that ignorance and that maybe that's kind of been my mission, is that I am a different face to this industry. A lot of people, you know, follow me on some social medias and are like, there's no way she's doing this. And I hope that I could paint a different picture, that you can still be a great mother, wife, you know, educated and still do something like this and it doesn't make you a bad person or something, you know, icky or whatever it is that, you know, goes through people's heads. I think that's important to me to try to change that perception.

What went through your head the first time you got naked in front of a camera?

I mean, definitely there was some drinks involved.

I certainly that's an honest answer.

I mean, I will be honest with that. It was kind of like, I mean, I think, you know, to take this back, I got married at 18. My husband and I have been married for 20 years this year. And I think it was quite liberating. You know, I'm a middle aged woman, I'm 37 years old and I was getting a lot of attention. You know, I think my husband certainly enjoyed seeing the confidence come back into me. I spent my 20s having children. I have a 19 year old. So I, when I was younger didn't have that kind of fun, sexy 20 year old life. And so there was some aspect of it that was quite liberating. It was kind of fun. And I think that was the driving force initially behind things is that, wow, here I am and I'm getting my confidence and my husband loves seeing that back in me. And it was innocent. And my husband and I have such a open relationship. We're so close with each Other that there was never any concern of him thinking what is she doing? Or who's talking to her on there. It was always such a very transparent thing we were doing that it just worked for us and it doesn't work for everyone. But yeah, I would say liberating was quite, was probably the biggest emotion I had.

For women in their 30s, 40s, 50s, being seen as attractive is a massively important thing. And I think it's oftentimes just the internal voice in the head because I think there's a lot of guys like, yeah, you're attractive, but if you don't feel it and just hearing it and probably seeing it in follower count has to just be incredibly. Validating is the wrong word. But it's just like acknowledging that you're an attractive person and that you're desirable. I think we need more of that in the world, not less.

Yeah, especially online, you know, you're so much criticism and I'm surprised that I don't remember a lot of it. And I don't know if, you know, I just didn't pay attention to it. But I was so overwhelmed with just the positive feedback about, you know, what people thought, not only about looks, but just how free spirited at this age that I could be. And I think that's really what until this day is a lot of my fan base and my followers are very much attracted to that.

Talk to me a little bit about only fans. How is it a business? Is it porn? Is it not porn? What was your experience working with them?

Well, I didn't really even discover. I think I was on an interview once and someone asked me, so you're doing porn? I stopped. I'm like, well, we're gonna have to Google that because I don't know, am I technically doing porn at this point? And I think by definition I am. But what's interesting about OnlyFans is it's not, it's really to the creator's level of comfortability. And the great thing is you could start off very racy and work your way up to where you wanna be or not at all if you don't want to. And I think it's really in the creator's control not knowing a lot about the actual porn industry, but that I do now. It's really crazy that there were so many people involved in porn before OnlyFans because they really have complete control of your content and they still do to this day. Even people that are out of the industry, their content that they made in the porn industry was the property of that production. And that just is One thing about OnlyFans is that you have control over your content and what you want and you have complete financial gain from your contract. You know, your content, it's all yours. So for me, I really enjoyed that because I never felt that I was pressured into doing something I didn't want to do because it was my page. Whereas I'm sure in many areas, you know, of the adult entertainment industry and porn, big production, that they do go through that and feel, you know, obligated to fulfill those roles or those kinks or things that they need to do. So I really, that part for me was very comforting to know that I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to do.

So instead of being a contractor or employee, you're actually an entrepreneur and you control your own content.

Exactly. For sure. And you know, OnlyFans provides that medium. There are many creators on the platform who don't necessarily even do to the level of content that I do. And I think that's wonderful because their fan base can, you know, they can still have their fan base and do what they do and make a living off of it.

What do you think about people who say that porn is bad for you or that porn is making it so young people don't even know what to expect when they first have sex and things like that?

When I think about that, I came from just growing up, I came from a very broken home and I didn't have a lot of positive body image and sex talks, at least from what I can remember. I don't remember any of that. But it's one thing with my own kids that I know know I've been very diligent about body positivity and that sex is a natural thing. It's, it's a very important part of relationships in a marriage. It's, in my opinion. No, it's, it's a connection. And I think that, you know, I, I'm not going to go as far to say no. I don't prefer that my 12 year old's watching porn by any means. But I don't think that it should be looked at as so taboo as it is at, you know, there's, there's age appropriate, you know, age, you know, there is a level of age appropriateness, but I think trying to shelter, you know, levels, you know, generation of teenagers from things that we already know they're seeing and they're talking about. I think that's just the thing. The more you kind of control it from them, the more they either think that it's naughty or that it's bad and they get a negative perception of sex and things like that. I think it's hard because there's so many aspects to porn, especially as you get into fetishes and things like that, that could be very confusing to an adolescent who doesn't even know about the basics of sex. And I think that's really where, you know, parents come and come into play, where you have to make sure you have those talks with your kids and such. So, you know, porn can be addiction for some, but I don't think that's any different than a gambling addiction. Any kind of addiction that gets in the way of your regular day to day activities or your family or your loved ones. I mean, that's a problem. Whether it's porn or gambling or smoking or drugs. It's the same type of thing. So to single out porn is a little bit unfair, which often in times happens because it creates a lot of emotions in relationships, especially if one partner's enjoying porn and the other didn't know about it. So it can be a feeling of infidelity even there. And I think that's where a lot of that negativity comes from too.

Kudos to you as a parent for being sex positive with your kids. And I do my best. Fortunately, my wife is European where sex is less stigmatic, stigmatized. So in Europe, you know, your first time could very well be, you know, your mom gives you a condom, says you guys go upstairs, you know, did you have a good time? And it's such a different thing that the American, you know, sneak off to a back of a car somewhere or wherever you can go, which is really common. So making it a normal human behavior like eating and sex is a form of nourishment. Some people would say that porn is kind of junk food for that. That said, a lot of people like to have dessert sometimes and there's higher quality and lower quality. So I'm not anti porn, I'm anti porn addiction and excessive masturbation and all that, that kind of thing. Do you think that onlyfans and Wet Space now are reducing or potentially increasing sex trafficking?

That's a big. That was one of my top concerns when starting to develop Wet Space was, you know, obviously crypto going hand in hand now with the adult. I mean it's just like a medium where you, you would anticipate that, things like that. And we're obviously taking many measures above and beyond the requirements to prevent things like that I'm very, very passionate about sex trafficking and how that is impacting our communities. And I will say the Internet has made sex trafficking more prevalent. And so while, you know, you could single it out that it's only fans, it's this. But if you look at Twitter and Facebook, if I understand correctly, don't quote me, but most of the statistics state that there's more sex trafficking done on those platforms than There is on OnlyFans. OnlyFans and any adult platform is under guidelines where, you know, the creators and such and every creator that appears on there has to be KYC'd, you know, uploading their identification, verifying age. You don't necessarily need that with Twitter or Facebook. And so I think there's. To single out these platforms that are just more heavily porn based is really unfair because Twitter and Facebook themselves alone also create a beautiful medium for that. And I think that's something that needs to be thought, you know, talked about because it's a problem. Sex trafficking in general is a problem. And so I don't feel like creating wet space. I'm, I'm adding to that. I feel like for the crypto side of it, you know, you have to be concerned about money laundering. And of course there's an anonymity factor now that could potentially, you know, make it easier for some of these things to happen. But that's why my team and my two business partners, we're very passionate about that and we certainly, like I said, are going above and beyond. We will have a full team that moderates and actively looks to make sure that that type of content is not happening on our platform. We also are going to have triggers in place of any kind of large sums of money or things that look suspicious. We're writing algorithms that will also aid in helping us collect data in the event that, you know, law enforcement seek to obtain that data from us. We're trying to really cover all avenues to help with that.

The best tech companies out there used to have it set up so that even if they got a subpoena, they couldn't answer it because they used appropriate encryption, which by the way, is a pretty good setup because that means that you don't have to spend a lot of money complying with subpoenas because it's simply not possible. And Apple was the last one to fall where. Now anything in the Apple cloud can be subpoenaed, but if it's on your device and you have a long enough password, it's very, very hard, if not impossible, to get into it. So there's a fundamental thing about privacy and freedom. In fact, even that whole fourth amendment thing about search and seizure seems kind of important. Important. So I, I like it that you're using crypto but also we don't want sex trafficking or other even, you know, more terrible things like stuff with kids or whatever. And so you've put tools in place to remove that and make sure it just can't be done on wet space. Talk to me about what happened when OnlyFans announced just overnight even like more than half their revenue that they weren't going to support anyone with adult content. What, what happened? Walk me through that story.

Well, it was actually just like the worst timing because I actually, my story had just came out the week prior so I was at the height obviously of my only fans was, you know, I had so much traffic and everything was coming in well. People were looking to me to make comment on that because I was the biggest story in the news and the biggest success story they had had on OnlyFans. And I remember thinking kind of just being in this days that wow, that, that, that's it, you know, you're just kind of at the mercy of these platforms. And I wanted to understand more about that because why would a company want to get rid of billions of dollars of content? You know, that's essentially what would be happening in such short notice. And it didn't take long for me to figure out after talking that where the driving force was behind that, that it wasn't necessarily OnlyFans fault or what they were trying to do. It was the pressure they were getting from these banking institutions. And so that led me to kind of dig into things and think about the stability and the longevity of my business now because at this point this is no longer a hobby, it's a business for me. And as any business in any industry, you know, you want to protect your business and provide stability and have long term prosperity. So I started to research a little bit about why these hat banks had to be involved and how far that went across. So much I looked into like pornhub and how they had gone through similar things, you know, in the past. That again was due to Visa and MasterCard. And that's what really started leading me into a lot of news articles and things about crypto. I got involved with a crypto project called Cumrocket and they were a crypto coin and they were basically providing work adult content creators could make NFTs. And I liked the sound of it because it was also a Little bit about content protection. And I liked the fact that there was no banks involved and it sounded appealing to me. But within weeks of being on the project, I realized very quickly, this is never going to work with the basic understanding of crypto was if all there's half of our, you know, half of the masters are investors and the other half are the creators. Creators want to get paid, they're going to cash out, they're going to take their money because this is what they do where investors that's not going to hold value for the coin long term. Like how are you going to incentivize the creators to actually not immediately cash out and drive down the value of the coin? So as I'm looking at this happen, I'm stepping back, I'm thinking, okay, forget the coin. The crypto is the answer. Yes, like this decentralized, we don't have banks involved, but the coin's a problem because the coin is actually sure, it's giving the company a lot of capital up front. They're making a crap ton of money so they can build this wonderful platform. But what does that do long term? You're really going to tick these people off because their investment is going to go to the gutter. And that's when I figured out, why can't we just create a platform that runs on crypto where you can pay with like stable coins that are basically equal to the dollar and they don't fluctuate and not make it about an investment. And luckily I had the capital of my own money to actually create that and do that. And that's when I partnered with two other business partners. And that's really the story of wet space. And it just kind of came to me with this immense amount of anxiety and fear that holy crap, I'm making. At that time, when Nolan fans made their announcement, I was at $380,000 a month. And I remember thinking, this is insane. Like, this is big money we're talking. You know, I was pulling in a lot. And so for that to be gone with a 30 day notice, I mean, I was panicking. And a lot of creators at that time started diverting to other platforms. And this is another important piece of wet space is that I was one of the only that did not divert my traffic. Luckily, OnlyFans changed their decision, but I did not start running to fansly because I thought, well, aren't they going to run into the same problem because they're accepting fiat? So what are we going to drive all this traffic and then you Know, three years down the road can have the same problem. And it just didn't make sense to me. And so with those components together is really what made me think there, there needs to be a solution here. I'm not running away from only fans by any means. I'll stay on there as long as they'll have me. I have a great relationship with them. But I definitely am smart enough to know that I need a backup. I need to, I need to know that there's a solution for creators, you know, long term. So that's kind of how it came about.

A lot of people don't know how brutal the banks and the credit card processors are on all kinds of businesses, including adult entertainment. But if you want to buy nootropics or smart drugs or prescription drugs with an offshore component to them, where a doctor offshore writes a script, this is stuff that's kept me, I would say probably alive and certainly kept my brain working when I was pretty sick and I could buy it. But those companies, they pop up and then they go away because the credit card processors come after them. When you look at cannabis for years after it became legal in some states, the credit card processors wouldn't take the money. So these guys were walking around with buckets full of cash and getting robbed and it was creating all kinds of problems. And this is not law, this is heavy handed behavior from monopolies. You know, did you want credit card? Okay, it's American Express, it's visa or it's MasterCard and that's pretty much it. Oh, and Discover, whatever, if they're still around. So that's, that's it. And those guys have enormous control as much as insurance companies who also don't want to insure adult entertainers, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So do you have solutions in place for the insurance side? Are you thinking about that as well as clearly you've got the payment side just handled with crypto, which takes the banks out.

Yeah. I haven't really thought, looked too much into the insurance side of things. I personally haven't had that, you know, myself, I haven't ran into that. But I feel like that at any level that you know, where you're reliant on big tech and if they change the way they do things or the way they want to, you know, like you said with these financial institutions, they really run the show. And I mean you, if you can't pay your creators and you can't accept payment, you have no platform. So at any time, if they want to change things or get more strict on guidelines or what you're allowed to have. That's why with so many people were so bitter with only fans. I thought they don't, they're not in control. They have to go by what is being told to them or they can't process payments. It's kind of the same thing that happened with Russia and Ukraine when they started those creators, you know, there was a lot of only fans got a lot of backlash on that. But if they don't have a payment processor, they can't pay. So they have to suspend these accounts so that they're not selling and then what, you know, having all this fictitious money in these sales. So it's really, I've learned a lot and I actually feel as though it's just crazy to think every which way this is, this industry is not looked at as an actual business and it's one of the highest profiting industries. And it's, it's insane to me because of course the government and taxes we pay, they look at it as a business but it really, it's not. And it's very difficult to obtain these payment processors and have these contracts with them. And that's why, you know, crypto could very well be a big solution to that long term. And it wouldn't surprise me. The adult industry has pioneered quite a few new things. You know, they've, they've always been on the forefront of there's a will, there's a way and people will consume porn. They will.

I mean I'm laughing because I come from the world of tech and people don't know vhs. Yeah, that was made because of porn. And the first teleconferencing, you know, where you could do what we're doing right now over a variety of video platforms. That all was driven by porn and then it was taken into business. Do you think crypto's long term stable for you though? Because isn't the US government, Aren't most other governments about to use central bank digital currencies which are an absolute abhorrent thing. But it feels like they're going to sort of take over and legislate crypto so you can't use it the way you're using it.

You know, that's funny when that, you know, a lot of people in the crypto or in the industry, I think there was laid long for so long for validation of crypto. You know, in the beginning everyone talked and made fun of it, you know, back in the early days of bitcoin. So when the government starts announcing and actually, you know, basically accepting crypto into the mainstream, I think there was a general excitement, but for me, there wasn't. I was kind of taken back. Like, I don't look at this necessarily as the greatest of things. You know, anytime you get their involvement, things usually go to crap. So I just, for me, it's a little bit concerning. I don't look at it as, oh, this is amazing. I think it's more. It's a little scary. As far as, you know, I don't think there's much they can. I mean, they could certainly ban crypto. I mean, I think there's many countries that have. I think given that they're Is such a. It's so popular now and there's so many people involved, I don't know that they can completely do away with it. I do have faith that they're literally, you're not going to be able to get rid of what we're doing. So if it fails with the Visa, MasterCard, if it fails with crypto, there will be another way. It will be consumed. Like, you know, you talked about that. It's not going away. Porn is, has been here for quite a while, and it's. It's like you've said, pioneered many other advances in technology. So I foresee that there would be another solution. But it is something I'm watching closely. I think that will take some time if that was to occur, and hopefully by then there would be another, you know, a workaround or something that we'd be able to work with.

After all, prohibition worked so well in the US when they tried that. So the same thing would happen if they tried to say, you know, people can't look at naked people, because apparently biologically we like to do that. And that's just part of being human.

Well, Hollywood has film, you know, where you have rated R movies. And how is that any different? I mean, because they're acting. Well, many of us are acting too. So it's kind of. It's interesting.

I did an interview a while ago about how some of that stuff in Hollywood isn't acting, and the actresses there don't have any of the protections that you actually have in adult entertainment where they weren't expecting it to actually go in, but it did, and it made for a more realistic shoot. And that was. That was pretty shocking to learn that that's a part of Hollywood. So one of my concerns is that when central banks run cryptocurrencies, they can control how you spend it. And with the stigma, that's here they could literally say, oh, you can't spend this currency on adult entertainment or you can't spend it on whatever. So they will actually use it to control what you're allowed to use your digital dollars for, which is a terrible thing. Governments don't have that right. I have zero interest in a central bank currency. Plus they can inflate or deflate that currency at will and they can steal it from you if, say, you donate money to a trucker or something. We already see evidence of that without digital currencies, so. So I'm highly concerned, just as a human being, maybe gold is going to be more valuable. But I guess you have to mail that into your Wet Space account, right?

You'd have to load that up. How much gold do you have? Yeah, I think, you know, we're already seeing some of this with like Coinbase. Coinbase, you know, has really started to limit, you know, in terms of. There was another creator who I'm not sure of her name, but I remember she had lost her Coinbase account because she was actually doing crypto transactions on the side and it was adult content and stuff. So there was a problem with that. And that really shocked me because that's kind of like goes against what crypto is now. We're, you know, again, we're regulating and so we're seeing some of that. Luckily, you know, we have Trust Wallet Metamask. There's other ways for us, you know, we don't have to use Coinbase Wallet. But it is something definitely that I was shocked to see with the Coinbase situation and that they were actually putting restrictions on adult content.

A lot of people just don't know the evil that even more companies like PayPal can do. There's been three times in my time when I was involved with Bulletproof, where they just randomly said, oh, you sold too much. We're holding hundreds of thousands of dollars at hostage with no interest for 90 days. Meanwhile, that was my revenue that buys the next batch of coffee. But there's no. You have no say. They take it and you can call an 800 number and they'll put you on hold. There's nothing you can do. Or you could sue them. But you know how even if you took all of your lifetime only fans and what space earnings and put them together, it's not going to dent the legal budget for those guys. So they're kind of untouchable and they're not the government. They're just doing what they want. And so that we crypto helps us Break free of that for sure. But if Coinbase is going to do that or any others, it comes down to hopefully more decentralized things. Finance and Web 3 and all that.

Now we know why our grandfathers kept their money in a box in the house. Because you get it into the system, it's very difficult. You don't know what's going to happen to it. Now it's kind of all making sense. But, yeah, it's very scary and it's at every corner you turn. I mean, in this industry, I can't tell you how many roadblocks we had, even from just being able to put a simple link in our bio. You know, it's. It's restricted if it's not something that, you know, they want us to put on there. So it's. It's very difficult. I mean, you have to give it up to people that are successful in this industry because you have to go through quite a bit to actually drive that traffic. Because you can't just go out there and talk about it on your Instagram. You know, you have to be quite cryptic about it.

A lot of people think of what they know about the adult entertainment industry and they're pretty much looking at, you know, what was the movie with Dirk Diggler? You know, the stuff where it's kind of the CD 70s Hollywood portrayed version of it. Boogie Nights. Thank you. That's the movie. Thanks. Upgrade Collective. I knew you guys would know. And do you think that it's gotten better for women in particular? I mean, guys don't necessarily always have a good time in porn either, contrary to popular belief. I've seen a few interviews where people are saying, you know, it's kind of miserable. I feel like a piece of meat. And I think a lot of the female porn stars are saying, you're welcome to the club, but is it better now than it used to be?

Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I feel like, well, just what. There's more freedoms now. And if you think about, you know, having mediums like onlyfans that you, you know, you have the freedom to kind of. Of paint that how you'd like, you don't really have to. You're not under big production and their narrative and how they want things to be. But I think there's a lot to. The female dominance stuff has come into play a lot and that kind of thing, you know, so it's not always just porn where the, you know, woman is just, like you said, a piece of meat and that kind of thing. There's many roles now, but I think that having. Being able to have the creativity and getting away from just your typical porn production and having it be more candid. I know my content in general is very candid. It's. I. It's not big production. I like it that way. It's. It's very real. And I think that's really, you know, that's been appealing to people because it does start to get kind of cookie cutter and the same, and the roles are the same, you know, naughty teacher, naughty nurse. And so I think, yeah, there's definitely a lot more flexibility now. I also think about sex workers that. And I haven't using that term because I know it's the way that mainstream describes this industry, but I don't resonate with it, but is that, you know, some of these people were doing actual prostitution and that only fans has provided a safer environment for them. That wasn't my case. But I think about the people that came, you know, creators that were at strip clubs that were, you know, under those conditions or on the streets, that are now able to make a living online and in a safer environment is something to say, positive that they also have contributed to. For sure.

I believe that that's probably the second oldest profession in the world, if not the oldest, and it's not going away. I've always thought that making it safe and legal is the only rational approach to both respect people's rights to do what they want to do. And also in the places in Europe where they've made it legal, it's much safer and it seems like it hasn't caused anyone any harm there. I want to talk about your transition to being a CEO. So you're like navy, which is a great background, by the way, for becoming an executive, just because you know how to get your shit together. Otherwise, well, they lock you in the brig or something, but so you did that. And then you've got nursing, which is also very structured, you know, you know, every tool right where it is, you know what you're going to do. There's operational roles and procedures for everything. And I, I know about that because I'm married to an ER doctor.

Okay.

So I hear a lot about that stuff. I should say former ER doctor, but. And then it's kind of the wild west where you're making onlyfans content, but now you're in a. An executive leadership role and, and, you know, you're going out there and doing the CEO thing. How's the transition? And how much time do you spend being an executive versus creating content.

Yeah, it's. It's definitely a different role. I love I still balance them both the same very well. I do whatspace I 247 I mean I my team, I have two business partners. They've remained anonymous but they are developers by trade and they have worked with many big Fortune 500 companies. Disney, Verizon. One of the reasons they need to anonymous but they, they are phenomenal and they've really helped me kind of learn that aspect of launching your own business. You know I definitely that's where I lacked. I knew I had the entrepreneur spirit, but definitely like just the whole structure of how things go and starting a business outside of something like an only fans has been such a learning opportunity for me. I will say my military background 100% and nursing background has helped me. I'm very focused. I definitely have the ability to transition very easily from you know, Alirae on OnlyFans to Alirae the CEO. And I also took when my story broke loose, I really took it to heart and I took value in the fact of how the feedback and the reception that people had of me in the public and the amount of women and the type of people that reached out to me, CEOs, vice principals of, you know, high schools, et cetera that were just so supportive and impressed with my ability to stand up and talk about these things. And I came into this advocacy role and I take it seriously. And I think that really helps me with Wet Space as well because I know that I'm not the only creator out there that is standing by hoping for a solution. And so that really drives me. It really does. And I even creating the platform and designing it, I'm thinking about the workflow and the business aspect for the creator all the while also creating thinking of the fan. And that's something that goes unnoticed a lot is the fans desire for anonymity that we're not the only ones the creators with stigma. I mean some fans that want to consume content simply can't because they can't have it on their bank statements because well the wife or the CPA or heck, you know, you go to buy a house, you got to print your bank statements. There's a, there's an issue there too that they a component that they actually have to deal with backlash and a stigma of even consuming the content. So that was really important to me as well with Wet Space and that makes it very easy for me to run the business knowing that I'm doing this for a good cause. There are people Rooting for me. There is a whole community out there that is looking, that needed a face, needed advocacy and a face that they could relate to. And I think that was the most important is how relatable my story was to people and that my personality and that I definitely, definitely I don't take that for granted and I want to utilize that on, on my platform for sure.

Do you ever feel sort of stressed, like, you know, I need to have a board meeting, but I also need to film a new video?

Yeah, it's definitely a balance. And I think this goes into the fact of how much of a business this truly is in general and that the amount of work that goes into being any type of content creator, whether it's on only fans, TikTok or wherever, it's something you have to stay relevant. You have to always get creative. You have to think of new ideas, new content, and it's very time consuming. One of the great things about my industry is kind of overlapping is that I know I'm creating the amount of time and effort that I'm putting into wet space. I'm also vlogging a lot of that to eventually put out. I'm trying to kind of balance the two. But it is important to me that, you know, I have to continue to run my only fans business despite that I'm running, some may say a competitor to OnlyFans. I don't look at it that way. I look at it differently. But yeah, I think it's just a balance and I do it well. And I don't, you know, I put myself through nursing school while working full time. I've always been able to juggle. I think as a nurse, multitasking is, you know, just something that lives within you. But it's definitely, you know, I'm working 16 to 18 hour days. I mean, you have to be disciplined. You have to have a schedule. And, you know, I have content days where I film content in bulk so that I have stuff to get me by for, you know, weeks to come. And I think that's really important is really utilizing your time. Time management is what it really comes down to.

Do people recognize you on the street?

Yeah, it has happened, especially now that people know I live in Florida. It's gotten a little uneasy. We definitely, especially in this industry, you know, there's. It's a little more unsafe, I think, than just being someone that they recognize from, you know, TikTok or something. It's, it's concerning. But most of the time it's been a positive interaction it has happened with my kids present, and I have never felt that any fans disrespected or, you know, they definitely respected my situation and knew when it was wrong or right time to approach. And so I haven't had negative experiences with that yet, but it is definitely something that's becoming more prevalent.

So people are generally polite if they see you in public?

Yeah. Usually they'll approach my husband first, which I actually appreciate because he is kind of like the guard gates to me. And, you know, if they say, you know, I. I don't want to be disrespectful, but I do know who your wife is, and I'm actually a big fan. Would you mind if I said hi? They. My husband's always, like, more than, like, absolutely. Like, it's. It's the sneaky, cool. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I get recognized pretty often just because I've been online for a while, and I've never had anyone be mean. But I also don't get undressed on camera. I was thinking it could be really bad or it could just be people are just being fans. Right. That's refreshing to know that people are polite, actually. That reaffirms my belief in basic goodness of people, at least most people.

We do have security with us at big events, undercover security that kind of follow around and watch for anybody that may be lurking or suspicious. And luckily, they've never had to act. But they are there at big events, for sure.

That's smart. And I've had security at big events, too, just because I'm really worried about physical safety in the way that you might be. But just because sometimes you can just get mobbed by fans and whatever.

For sure.

There's times when that's fine because you're mixing. And there's other times where, you know, I actually have to go somewhere.

I don't have the time. Yeah, for sure.

Does it bother you at this point where you sit there and go, oh, my God, Like. Like, people around me, they've probably seen me naked, some portion of them. Is there a little voice in your head going, you know, ah. Or are you just done with that?

It was very weird when my story first broke out, because I knew there was really not many people at that point that didn't know if they knew me. They, you know, they knew what I was doing. And that was a weird transition. And even sometimes when I'm on and I'm going through my messages, I'm like, I honestly have no idea who I'm talking to. I literally could Be talking to an ex coworker, you know, an extra instructor, you know, from school. It does. I have no clue. And I've just tried to put it past me and not think about that. But yeah, many times in public. And if I do catch people looking at me that I, and I'm pretty confident there, they know who I am, they just haven't said anything. It is awkward. I've actually made jokes with my husband. I'm like, this is so weird. Like I don't know what they've seen, I don't know. And I just, usually just take a sip of the drink and move on because there's, you don't know who's watching. And especially when you get to this level of, you know, your story's out and it could be, they could be friends, it could be ex co workers, you just don't know. But yes, a very weird feeling.

If you look at the number one fear in the us, at least it's public speaking and that's fully dressed. Most adults have terrible fear about being naked in front of other people, even if it's in a non sexual context. I mean, it is a massive thing. And there's body image things and just like taboos and all sorts of historical baggage on that. And then for me, I go to Burning man and you know, walk around one day with less clothes on than you would ever wear and all of a sudden you realize no one actually gives a shit because everyone's seen themselves and other people naked and it's not nearly as big of a deal to anyone else as it is in your own mind. And then you just kind of lose the baggage. So I, I don't think I would want to see it. But I don't have any shame or concerns. If I had to go do what I do on stage naked, I wouldn't blink twice. I just don't think there'd be anyone in the audience. So I don't do that. But it actually takes psychological work to just be comfortable with your body. I guess it might be easier knowing that these people actually really want to see my body. They're paying for it. So at least you're like feeling really validated.

Yeah, for the longest time I couldn't watch my own content. You know, you'd film something, you'd have to edit and cut and put everything together and I just would blush and I just could not watch it. And some, some content today I'm like, I just, I can't, I can't do this. I blush and I Get embarrassed. And I think before I send it, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so exposing. But I guess, you know, that's, that's part of it. But it is a good feeling once you do become more comfortable with, like, I know I'm not 21, I know I have flaws. I know I don't have this perfect body. And I think once you become comfortable with that and knowing that your fans are comfortable with that, that really helped me a lot to know that that that's not my lane. I'm not a supermodel. I don't have everything perfect. I have a flaws. But I think that's kind of the joy of only fans is that you do get to see that real side of people and those flaws and the little roll on the belly and you know, it's not cookie cutter non attainable stuff. And so I think that's actually led to some of the success potentially of, you know, my only fans, given that, you know, I'm not perfect and I'm okay with that.

So you're a, you're a real person, right? And, and I think that's actually healthy if people are going to be watching any kind of adult entertainment, to have real people instead of, you know, highly, highly, we'll say surgically altered people or digitally altered at this point. So I think you've got a point there. It's interesting as a parent, I look at the number of times I let my kids see anyone killed on TV before they were 12 and it was zero. They might have seen a naked person or two on some TV show that didn't have people running around shooting at each other and having more of a European perspective on that. Like, fine, yes, kids, people are naked. You know that, that just happens. And you know, this is how things work. And that doesn't seem like it's harmful or traumatizing just in the context of what you'd see on TV in Europe versus they would control violence. In the US we heavily control sex, but we don't control violence. And there they control violence. And then there's, you know, you can see breasts on TV and it's not like Eyes Wide Shut where there's someone just always walks in front of the camera right in front of the juicy bits, which always made me laugh. Like it's just so ridiculous, this double standard. So I, I think it's, it's super healthy just to have normal bodies out there. And I'd like to see that. What do you do to keep kids off of wet space.

Well, what's. The creator will definitely be KYC'd when they come on. As far as KYC'd, KYC, I think it stands for know your customer. And it's. It's a requirement for adult platforms that you have, you know, verified they're 18 years of age. They have to upload ID. There is a little bit of process to go.

They have to upload id. Actually, that's way more than you'll find on the free porn sites that are all over the place where you just click a button. So.

Well, the creator has to do that. Not necessarily. Not the. The actual buyer. I don't know that there's much you can do. We do have Exclaimer that asks.