EPISODE #959: How Intuition Can Lead You To Your Highest Self – Joy Martina

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today is a episode recorded live in Amsterdam, and our guest today is Dr. Joy. Martina. Joy's been on the podcast, like, hundreds of episodes ago, where we talked about, call it psychic abilities, but she's actually a psychologist, and she's a psychologist who practices intuition. And. And she just straight up says, I'm a psychic psychologist. And she does sessions globally with clients where she does hypnosis. And today I wanted to go deep into how many psychologists, or even psychologists or just healers, are actually either highly intuitive or psychic, what the difference is. And we're going to talk about those times. You just know, and you'll find that Joy just knows a lot of the time in a way that's pretty weird and good.

Joy, thank you so much for having me here.

You're welcome. It's my pleasure. Now, you just hypnotized me.

I did. Did you enjoy yourself?

I did enjoy myself. Now, is what you did for me typical for what you would do?

Yes. Yeah, it was typical in the sense that I always aimed to get my clients into the deepest state of relaxation that they possibly can in that moment. And the reason why I do that is because in that state, their conscious mind is no longer controlling and limiting their ability to actually connect to something that's greater than them.

Why, when you had me hypnotized, was I squirming all over the place?

Because the moment our body truly relaxes and our mind relaxes, we can actually become aware of all that energy that's flowing through us and is around us at all times. And when we're deeply relaxed, that energy often starts moving so quickly and so effortlessly that it's really bringing balance and a kind of recalibration to the body. And that's where the squirming comes from. Some people like it cramps, and then it'll take a while for that to relax. So the, you know, the effects of a deep state of relaxation really depend on where that person is in that moment and what they need.

It sounds kind of like. In fact, it felt also kind of like what you'd see in a flotation tank. A lot of people, when they start doing a float, will get those cramps, and the magnesium sometimes helps, but you become aware of where you're holding tension.

That's right.

So I had, like, a cramp in one of my feet that doesn't normally cramp. And then. Yeah, I was just noticing energy is probably the right thing to do, flowing through. But Then you said a bunch of stuff, some of which I probably remember. I don't know if you can make me cluck like a chicken, can you?

I could if you wanted to.

But you didn't, like, install that.

No, I did not. I think that's what you were talking about. You know, there are many different psychologists out there, many hypnotists out there. There's. There are many psychics out there. And I think the whole reason why I'm doing what I'm doing is because I noticed that too. And I noticed the responsibility, but also the danger of that. That can happen when we are maybe working with a skilled person, but whose integrity or whose, I don't know whose goals are maybe different than ours are. So I think it's really important to have discernment and to really choose the person you're going to surrender so deeply to very carefully.

All right, so let's assume that someone hasn't booked a session with you. You passed my discernment test anyway, and I've known you for a while, so I don't have an issue there. But how would you go about doing that? Okay, I think hypnosis might help me. Do you go to Google, which is unreliable for almost anything these days, and just figure out whoever paid the most to Google to show they were high integrity? What's the algorithm for a client?

Well, I noticed that my clients usually come by recommendation. So if I were looking for a hypnotist, I would a look for someone who's a certified hypnotist who has a bunch of training. So I can see that they really know what they're doing. And then it's really that personal check in of seeing do I vibe with that person? That's where intuition comes in. We know if someone is trustworthy or not. And when we follow that, it's easy to find the right people. They'll just show up. And then when you're in your intake or you're discussing with a hypnotist, you know what your goals are and what your values are, make sure that they really repeat back to you and have understood what you're going for. Because let's take an example like weight loss. There's a lot of great weight loss hypnosis out there. But the way that you want to lose weight or the way that you want to stay aligned with your healthiest self might be very different than the way that the hip hypnotist thinks you should. So if you're not careful, that hypnotist may install A program. Not that I'm saying this would be bad, but it might not be what you want of saying, okay, you're now gonna, I don't know, go and run every day for an hour. And, yeah, in hypnosis, you can put that in so that person will feel the urge to run every single day. But is that really what you want? So I think that's where that due diligence and the discernment comes in to really also have your clarity yourself on what is it that I want to achieve.

When you say you're a psychic psychologist, I mean, do people believe you? Because half the people who claim they're psychics might not be psychics, Right? How do you identify yourself as a psychic? How do you know you're psychic?

How I know I'm psychic is that I so often know things that I have no conscious perception of where I could know it from. How I know I'm psychic is that I so often know things that I have no conscious perception of where I could know it from. It's not my knowledge, it's not my wisdom. I just know. And over all these decades, right, Nearly five decades on this planet, I figured out, you know, I was. I was so often I was just right. But there was a part of me that wasn't listening to that because it seemed so unlikely. And then the thing with intuition is it's just like a muscle that you train. The more often you trust it, the more often you go with it, the stronger it becomes. And then I started noticing that that veil, the sort of the doubt, the maybe, maybe not started disappearing, and I just became clearer and clearer, and that's that certainty. And once we have that certainty, we also have that confidence and that clarity to receive message, messages from the divine, from our highest intelligence, which everybody can do, by the way. Everybody.

Everyone can do that.

Everybody can. Is intuitive. It's just a matter of training. And then the more you train your intuitive powers, the more psychic you become. And that literally just means that you have opened up all four channels. Actually, more than that, but the main four channels of information. So you've opened up your visual channel, you've opened up your auditory channel, you've opened up your kinesthetic channel and your auditory digital channel so that conversation in your head. And once those four channels are open, it's more a question of, again, discernment and choice to say, okay, do I want to know now? Because very often, when with people like, say you're in a crowd of people, do you really want to Know everybody's story there. Do you want to know their past lives? I don't. So I had to more learn to shut it off and say, okay, I only want to know when I need to know. And so I just have trained my brain to ask the questions and it'll give me the answers. So that's the psychic part, the psychology part is that I am and always have been fascinated how the brain works, how us humans work. I've always found us so interesting. So the psychology part helped me understand how, how trauma is created, how, how brains function, how habits are created. And then putting those two together helped me help people see what they cannot see for themselves. Because we all have blind spots, including myself. And if we have someone working with us who's able to be that really clean mirror and has the added benefit of just knowing truth, and that's kind of what the psychic part is, is an intuitive part is you, you just know, then you can often guide people to that truth and it's easier for them to see it themselves. So again, it's people don't come to me because I'm helping them. They come to me because they learn how to help themselves and how to trust themselves and really become their own guru. And that's the part that I enjoy so much because it's so empowering.

There are a lot of people who probably doubt that they can be taught to be psychic or to turn on intuition. I would have been one of those people if you took me back to when I was working in Silicon Valley. Even though now that I know more about neuroscience and all the stuff that I do with 40 years of Zen, I recognized that what I was doing then, the innovative stuff I was doing was absolutely intuitive. And there were a lot of times where, well, no one knows the answer because it hasn't been invented yet. So it comes from somewhere. And it's not just from thinking, it's from knowing and then thinking. Right?

That's right. We overvalue. We pay so much attention to the thinking and forget the knowing.

So if someone came to you and said, I want you to hypnotize me to be psychic, could you do that?

I would. If it's a one session deal, I would, I would definitely take that expectation down and say, this is training. It could be. You know, I've often experienced that where if someone's ready and their desire is so strong. Yeah, it sometimes just takes that one unlocking. But the good thing about when people come to me for sessions is I always record the sessions. So Worst case scenarios, they always walk out with their own brain training. Because here's the thing, our brain just needs to be trained. So sometimes it can be done, it was already ready just to come out. Other times it can take up to 90 days to really make it a new habit to listen to that subtle energy, listen to intuition. And that's, you know, those 90 days of creating new habits that they can sometimes take where the brain training comes in, that you can train your brain to have all those empowering to be aligned with that, with that vision. So it's got to be a desire and there's got to be some commitment to do the daily practice because it's not just a pill that you throw in and then suddenly you know everything because you wouldn't be able to handle it. You see, the, the intuitive power and, and the psychic abilities come with a great responsibility. So if you have all this knowing but you're not doing anything with it, you could actually end up worse off because you know that the air outside of the golden cage is rough. So once you don't know, you don't know. You're oblivious, you're fine. But the moment you know, you don't know, you're going to feel you want to do something about it. And the moment you know, you know, there are no more excuses. You can't blame anybody else, you can't. You've got to own full responsibility of being that creator of your own life. And that's rough for people. Some are not ready for that. So it's a progress.

Well, I'm hopeful that most of the audience here, given that definition of biohacking, is they made that choice, control your own biology, that you're probably here for that. And if you're not here for that, well, welcome, because now you are. So there. Did I just hypnotize them into believing?

We definitely gave them a very powerful suggestion and I like that. So yes, I can add on to that suggestion. Not only are you incredibly intuitive and can you learn to enhance that more, but it's also going to give you something in life that you might not expect and that is a sense of joy. So if I look at the, you know, the rates of depression and all that stuff going on, that's skyrocketing, it's hardly surprising because I feel we've all been so disconnected from intuition. And when we're not connected to our intuition, it's very hard to be happy. And once we are connected, it's much easier. It's a natural state.

All Right, Joy. You told people to connect to Joy. Was that like a total subliminal go to Joy Martini to Joy is the.

Essence, not Joy is the person. But you may use me as a symbol for that joy. That's totally okay.

I'm just messing with you. The way I see all this is that I don't think everyone's psychic. I really don't.

They're not using their psychic abilities. I will definitely agree with you there.

I would say all of the information, all that stuff is out there, but we just don't notice it. Right. So it's just, it's an unawareness thing. Like you haven't turned on all of your senses or you've learned to filter out a bunch of stuff that was.

Actually useful or you haven't even become aware of who you are.

Oh, that's interesting. I don't even know about that.

So the way I have seen also connecting the dots, looking back, the steps that I believe are the easiest and the best and the safest attack to take if you are interested in really super blasting your extra sensory perception is to number one, first create that awareness.

For yourself of who you are.

Of who you are.

What does that even mean?

Well, exactly. What exactly does that mean? And then people will start coming up, yeah, well I'm a mom, I'm a dad, I'm a boss, I'm a this, I'm a that. And I say, yeah, those are all the roles. And what else, what else, what else? So becoming aware of yourself, your own emotions, your triggers, your all those habits, this, that's the first step because you see, we also, I'm sure all know psychics and incredibly intuitive people who are very psychic but useless at life. They, they, they, they're very bad at keeping 3D together. They usually have money issues, they have health problems. So they're not using their psychic powers to actually really help themselves. And that's step one. We have to, you know, use it and walk that talk before we can start going out and spreading messages for others. At least that's how I see it.

I like that. So there's a bunch of dysfunctional psychics.

Out there for sure.

There's also a bunch of dysfunctional non psychics.

So, and here again, because I'm sure many of in our audience have been to some kind of psychic weird thing and felt good about it. And I should think some of us have been somewhere and thought, oh my goodness, this gives me the goosebumps, give me the creeps. I want to run out and maybe you didn't run out. And you see, in those moments, we've just got to know. We're highly susceptible, we've showed up, we want to receive a message, and whatever that person's going to say, we have a choice. Are we going to take it in or not? So I still remember some times when I was at sort of stuff like that and I should have left. And so anybody listening now, if you feel it in your body that this is a no, and you know when it's a no, then go say, thank you so much, I'm leaving, and that's enough. Goodbye. But don't feel you have to say, stick things out, because that's just how you do it. When your body is reacting, that's. That's a big alarm sign. So that kinesthetic channel, as humans in a body we all have, but I think that with everything that's been happening these last decades on this planet, we're often disconnected from that. We numb ourselves out, we don't feel the body. Some of us are even scared of feeling the body. So that's all part of step one, becoming one with that unit that you are before you start connecting out with 5D.

I like that. In Silicon Valley, the VCs with the best track record, they do the thinking and then they check their gut. And if they line up, they invest. And if they do the thinking and then their gut says no, they don't invest. But if their gut says yes and the thinking says no, sometimes they invest anyway and they make a lot of money. But that, in fact, I've heard it said that it takes at least $10 million to make a good VC. They have to lose $10 million in deals before they could do it. And that was actually in probably 1990s dollars. And since the government inflated our currency today, that would be closer to probably $40 million. Yes, they stole at least half of your money over the last 20 years.

So any of you noticing that you could also have something else, you could. I reject that. I'm gonna be that VC who learns with $1 million. So, right.

You. You could. And some do. But the reason I'm bringing that up, though, is that I think that that's the cost of them seeing what happens when they ignore their gut and go just their thinking. And that they basically have to feel the pain of that decision going, oh, and if you feel the pain of ignoring your gut because your brain told you to do something enough times, eventually realize, huh, maybe my gut was telling me something.

So that's that whole thing of learning, I used to be very wired into that too, until I decided, nope, it's not what I want to do anymore. I can through learning through pain. I was Will. And I could learn through joyful and pleasurable experiences too.

Okay, you have to tell me more about that because everyone listening has learned through pain.

Well, that's called conditioning.

It's called learning to walk. Like, oh, when I don't do it right, I fall over and then I.

Well, but I'll give you one example there. My daughter Grace, my third kid, she was 10 months old when she. She hardly ever crawled, but she just stood up and she walked. She's now 12 years old and I can say to this day, she has never, ever fallen.

That's crazy.

So that you named her Grace?

That's cheating.

Well, maybe that was it. We see. So what I'm saying is that everything is possible and it's really so up to what we believe and what we are aligned with is what we're going to create.

Okay, learn through pleasure instead of learning through.

That's my definite suggestion.

Okay, how do we do that? Because what I understand is that our pain avoidance wiring hardware is quite strong. So how do we learn through pleasure? What's an example of that? I understand is that our pain avoidance wiring is stronger, is quite strong. So how do we learn through pleasure? What's an example of that?

Well, the example is that we take the wiring like you say. We have a wiring that's wired to pain and learning through that. And then we create a new wiring in the brain. Because the brain is highly, you know, malleable. You can form it and the brain doesn't know the difference between reality and imagination. So you go and you create a mental image, but not only the image. You create a whole hologram in hypnosis of that reality. So I would take that person to the reality where they are experiencing a life where they're learning through pleasure. And they download all that information, rather like, you know, pressing the button download on a computer. And we download all the resources, all the talents or the thoughts or the beliefs or the feelings that are necessary to be aligned with that. And if that vision of the future, if that becomes stronger, then. And it does, the more you connect it, because that's where your energy will flow that will become stronger than the other wiring. The other wiring will dissolve. And you're running the new program because the other one is you're no longer using. You could even go a step further in hypnosis and delete it delete the memory out. But I am always careful with that because as you were also saying, those, those painful moments of the past were our learnings. So we want to let go of the pain, but we want to keep the learning and not just delete the whole event out. Which sometimes what we'd like to do with painful experience isn't it. I'll just delete that. But then we'd miss the whole reason why we did it.

Yeah, you have to learn your lesson. You'll just do it again and again.

So learn joyfully.

Okay. Yeah, that is, it's really. It's intriguing. Give me some more concrete. I mean, I like that. But. So if you wanted to say, here's how to learn from pain, it's what your grandmother would tell you. Put a rubber band around your wrist. Every time you do something that's a bad habit, you snap the rubber band and then the body will go, I don't want to do that anymore because I don't like being snapped.

Okay, so let's say you.

You mean the pleasure version of that?

Yeah. So let's say you're integrating a new habit and the new habit, what would it be? Something like, I'm going to take care of myself. I'm going to.

I'm going to drink my danger coffee.

I'm going to drink. Let's say I'm going to hydrate more, right? Let's say, let's say it's a simple goal. Someone who has real trouble hydrating is setting out to hydrate more. Then the first step is to make the body and the mind and the brain align with that. So that's why I use tapping and kinesiology to test is the unconscious in agreement to do this now? Because you know, that same person might have great benefits from not drinking enough, whatever that may be. So once the client is congruent and it's a clear yes, this is what I want. I want to drink while asking her, how much do you want to drink every day? And I'll say, okay, I want to drink 3 liters of water a day. So then I will take that person to that reality. They will do it in their minds basically, to that extent, win a quantum multiverse. So we can imagine anything. We go there and we say, okay, so now let's imagine we're in that moment, that specific, most appropriate moment where you're so well hydrated, imagine how you'd feel. And they say, oh, I feel. I feel so much energy. I feel so happy. I feel I've I've got all the power that I need and I say, okay, now tune into your senior skin. What does that look like? Oh, it's all plump and rosy and oh, and look at your hair. Oh, that's all you know. You go through all the things so they get all the full sensory download until that is so strong that you can literally see them vibrating on the couch. It's like, yes, I want this. And I say, okay, now bring it back. Use hypnotic suggestions, NLP all my tricks, right, to bring it in the brain as the new download. Now, when they come back out of the session, that is their new reality. That is what they're tuned into. But of course they're going to go back into life and then all these things will happen. So they're going to need something to re anchor themselves to that moment because that's the practice. It's like also, Joe Dispenser says you've got to do the work. You've got to sit down in silence and connect and do that. So what they need to do throughout the day is notice when they are going out of connection, when they're getting stressed, when they falling back into old habits, and do a pattern interrupt. And that's where the rubber band thing comes in. But what if instead of a rubber band, you did something that actually gives you pleasure? So that could be something like taking a couple of nice deep breaths, thinking of, I don't know, smelling some Greater Roman essential oil.

That gives like an anchoring.

An anchoring. You just need some other anchor. I like using tapping for that. Or I'll give my clients the instruction to go self pleasure twice a day. Anchor the pleasure rather than the pain.

Can I sign up twice?

Absolutely, you can, you can go. And I see if you want to go the rocket fast way, do it three times a day. But you know, you want to increase the amount of good vibes that you're creating and you want to realize that you can do those yourself. You don't need anybody else for that.

So you really tell your clients that.

I really tell my clients that. And then if they're really good clients, I'll say, you know what, if you're really committed, I will pocket coach you for 10 days. And for 10 days, every single time you give yourself pleasure, you're going to send me a little emoji. And they do. And you can choose the emoji. And it's hysterical. What happens. So I get all these emojis from my clients and I'm like, yeah, just feel that pleasure. And then they're like, you're just giving.

Them permission basically to do that.

I'm giving them the command to, oh. And that's where you know, I'm yes, using that position as a hypnotist because that person has surrendered. They simply help me. Right. I'm giving you the scepter. I'm giving you the command, instruct my brain. And the moment they give me that, of course I'm going to instruct it the best way possible. And I'll give the suggestion you enjoy these moments of time for yourself. And suddenly they do. And then within the shortest time, usually after 10 days, they'll notice a big, big shift. But after 90 days I'll ask, so how's that new habit? They say, what habit? Oh, of course, I do that every day. It's part of their identity. And then when it becomes part of our identity, we naturally draw it in. It's just, it's physics. It's a law of resonance.

How many of your clients are men versus women?

It used to be I'd say 80% women and 20% men. But in the last year I've noticed it's becoming 50 50. It's really fascinating because men are waking up. It's really nice to see.

So are you telling men and women to go self pleasure twice a day.

To give themselves pleasure? If that is appropriate. Some do it automatically, but especially for people who are very depressed.

Oh no. Energy, stuck in a rut.

Self worth issues, because that could also.

Be depleting, at least for men.

Well, I'm not saying, you know, go ejaculate every time.

Okay.

I'm saying give yourself pleasure so that you, you are at least for those, I don't know, 10 minutes a day you're vibing high you and you're feeling love for yourself and you're grateful because that's what's going to create more good.

Okay, so there are people who would call that like sex magic and things like that. Like there's various mystics and other spiritual teachers, actually a lot of tcm, the really old teachings, and some from India as well. Some of the yogic and tantric and Taoism and all of that. So you're using some of that energetics as part of your practice?

Well, I think I'm just teaching people how to use energy. Become aware of the energy that they have that they are, and use it intentionally, consciously. Because sexual energy is just a very strong energy. But it's energy and it depends what you do with it. You can be highly destructive with it, or you can be highly creative and, you know, create good with it. So energy is just energy.

I love the way you're saying that. In the world of biohacking, I talk about the four F words. And there's. This is what all life does in order. There's fear, which is run away from kill or hide from scary things. And you put tons of energy in that. That's the pain avoidance stuff we talked about. That gets about 10 times more energy than a normal thing, which is because if a tiger eats you, it's over. And then you have food. Eat everything is what all life does. Because you might not have food later. And you'll do that before you even think about it. Because it's your body deciding to do that, not your mind. Yeah. And it's even below the animal. It's like the cellular. The cells themselves do that. And then like, even bacteria will follow these same rules. And then the third one, so you have fear, you have food. And the third one is fertility. That's the kind F word. There's the other F word. But that's another major driver of all life on the planet. And all of these take energy, and they all take the same energy that comes from electrons and we get it from food and all that. So if you don't waste it with needless fear and with being hungry all.

The time or being stuck in the past with all those traumas, reliving them. Right.

That's what some of us psychologists. That would be totally your thing. Right. So that just burns up a ton of electricity that could go to like, folding your DNA and making energy and doing good stuff in the world. So being willing and able to talk about the other F word in a practice is really cool. And to do it in a clean way. Do you ever have patients develop unhealthy attachments to you?

No. But you know why? Because I give very clear suggestions and boundaries. And I'm very clear that I think that's the beauty of, I call it quantum hypnosis is because the person is coaching themselves. They're. They're tuning into the wisdom is not me giving them the answers. I'm coaxing them to that place so that they can find the answer. Just pops up. And that's why I think I don't have these attachments, because people will be thankful for the experience. Oh, you helped me do that. But they realize they did it themselves. And I will hone that in because.

I mean, they teach you that in psychology and psychiatry and Therapy schools.

Well, also yoga school.

Yeah, even yoga.

Right. It's a no, no. And I honor that deeply. Maybe also because those boundaries were transgressed for myself, often vice versa, where I was a student and I felt that clear boundary between teacher and student was not kept. So that's why maybe I'm very particular about that.

I'm assuming as a professional you're not going to do that. But I mean, clients aren't necessarily there. So I would just. I know that every person I've ever talked to who practices any kind of therapy or frankly even energy work deals with that sometimes like some patients or clients are just like, whoa. So I'm just wondering if the fact that you're talking about the other F word in your practice, but you put just very firm boundaries in place. So it doesn't.

It's not a service I'm going to offer you. You do it yourself. Of course. No, but I'll say it in that crude way, right? And then they'll laugh and say, okay, okay, got it, got it, got it. So, yeah, I think it's boundaries. And you know, I've also seen also in my own practice, especially when I started, and I would just go with that energetic flow and really help them go into very, very, very deep states. Some of them, if they weren't ready for it, were unstable afterwards. So I had to then really work hard on stabilizing them, bringing them back and, you know, not go floating off. So I definitely had that experience of someone just losing themselves in all that is.

How do you bring someone back if.

They do that physical, you know, movements like I'll, I'll have them, you know, really tap their bodies, take really deep breaths, move, dance up and down, really ground, eat a piece of chocolate, eat a piece of bacon. That also helps. It's just really, you know, becoming back in 3D.

So we have chocolate, we have bacon, we have self pleasuring. That's like the holy trifecta for a podcast.

Everybody's getting hungry right now. Only if you're really hungry, eat.

All right, fair point. Now, oh, question for you. Hypnosis over zoom or even therapy over zoom.

Just make sure you have a good connection. That's the only thing, a stable connection. Very helpful. I did once have someone be in a deep state of hypnosis. My Internet broke down and I was worried. I was like, oh my God. So I started phoning them and making sure that they came back. They did. People always come back from hypnosis. That's a common fear that people have is, oh, my God, what's going to happen? Will it be gone? Will I just leave? No, you're always going to come back. And you'll 99.9% of the times come back feeling a ton better than you did when you went into hypnosis because you were able to relax. And that in itself is so healing. Now. You always come back, but with online sessions, I didn't think it was going to be the same, but it is. The only thing that's missing is that I can't. I don't do hands on healing or, you know, touch the person, which can be very helpful, especially if the body's holding a lot of tension. It can be good to touch the soles of the feet and help people come back into their bodies.

When you hypnotize me, I think you had a hand on my heart or on my forehead or something. I. One of the two or both. I.

It can be really powerful in certain moments.

It was good, whatever. Whenever that time was, I could tell it made a difference. Right. And I'm sure people are now wondering, what the heck did you hypnotize me to do?

Well, we connected you to your highest self and I remember you had a little dive into a past life just to see what resources and talents could be brought out more. That's another thing I love doing is just, you know, you're like fishing in the quantum field, saying, where else.