Grounding and Earthing with Clint Ober | 1203 | Dave Asprey

Doctor Jeff Spencer, who was on the show years ago, was a team doctor for Tour de France. He told me his story. He said, dave, I had to sneak out at night and hammer the grounding stakes in because I didn't want my competitors to know why my athletes were always winning. So he was using your tech secretly in order to get. Call it an unfair advantage, although it was fair for the team, and that's amazing. These guys don't mess around. They do stuff that works. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today I'm honored to have a pioneer in a field of health and wellness and even medicine who cracked the code on one of the things I mentioned in the very first year of the biohacking conference 13 years ago, the one that started the movement, and it's earthing or grounding, and the fact that it matters that you go for a walk on the beach or that you touch the surface of the earth without rubber between you and it, because our bodies are electrical, they're also chemical. They're also light and magnetism and probably quantum based all simultaneously. So when I was searching for anything that would help when I had chronic fatigue syndrome, brain fog, arthritis, obesity, pre diabetes, and a long list of other crap that really wasn't cool before I was 30, I tried everything that was supposed to work. And when it didn't, I tried everything that I thought was a little bit edgy. And I came across a book by a guy named Clint Ober, who was a radio guy who noticed something, one of these people who's just curious and noticed an effect that he didn't expect from electricity on the body. And that was one of the things that helped me figure out this notion of biohacking. Change the environment around you and inside of you to have control of your own biology, well, part of your environment's electrical. So now we have Clint Ober, the pioneer of grounding and earthing, here in the studios in Austin, Texas, to tell us about his life's work. Clint, welcome to the show.

Well, thanks, Dave. Thanks for inviting me. It's been a real. I've followed you for years and you've always been there, but I've never been able to really connect with you. So this is a nice opportunity and I appreciate it.

Likewise. I remember people thought I was crazy when I first started talking about earthing. And I said, hold on a second here, there's this guy named Clint Ober. And I would actually tell your story. And I say, you can try it. And it's Measurable. And you've been such an influence that when I opened the. What was now or what became the upgrade Cafe at the time was the bulletproof cafe in Santa Monica. People felt really good when they were there and that's because the coffee was decent. Danger Coffee is my new coffee company since that time that actually has other electrical effects on the body. But the table, I can show it to you downstairs. I still have it. The table we had custom built, had earthing built into it. So there's metal strips on the table.

Right.

That wrap underneath the table and go down. And we had a 12 foot copper rod hammered in through the foundation so that we could have earthing. So people sat there working, people met and got married there. Lots of companies were started at the cafe. They were all sitting there earthing without even knowing it.

Yeah, well, that's the best way. Yeah, it's easy. They just go with it.

Yeah, you just build it in the environment. And today if you go into an upgrade labs, all of them have a counter that has earthing as a part of what they do. So when you're sitting there just doing what you're doing, you're getting an electric benefit.

Yeah, that's essential. I mean, it's good to hear that. I didn't know this.

Oh, it's. I mean, you've had an impact. I just want you to know that.

I hide out a lot. I'm not an out there person very much. And I tend to primarily focus on the research, the studies and, and keep pushing and bringing that along.

The world needs nerds.

Yeah. Yes.

That's a compliment, by the way.

No, I understand. I totally.

Tell me about how you first came across the idea of earthing. How did you notice this?

Well, I had spent 30 years in the communications industry and actually was one of the early pioneers of cable television up in Montana, in the hill country, Pennsylvania and so on. But anyhow, in that industry we learned very early on you had to ground the wires to the earth in order to maintain electrical stability and to prevent interference and to prevent radiation from the cable system into the local environment and so on. So anyhow, I become just. I had a good working knowledge of grounding and we, it evolved at about the same time we were doing that building cable because cable was miles of wire up in the air, you had to ground it. But grounding's been around forever. But I didn't really understand it, nor did very many people in the early communication. In the very early communication industry, other than for lightning protection. Right. But anyhow we had to ground everything and then we had to find ways to do it, and then it had to be effective and so on. And so anyhow, I just. Over 30 years, you my osmosis, you learn everything there is. And it's more. It's as much an art as it is a science, because the electric fields and coupling and noise and. And so on.

One of the things that changed my view of reality, when I was about 16 or so, I bought a radar detector for my car because I used to like to speed. And I realized that all day, every day, I was driving through an entirely invisible landscape of fields that existed because I had a detector like, oh, look, there's a field here, there's a field there. And I think as an electrical engineer, you learn the shape of fields, you, you know what they're going to do, and then you can measure them and you realize all around us, invisible, there's this incredible architecture and all this data. And when in my tech career we would deal with things like grounding, we built large data centers, in fact, the first data centers in the world for the Internet that held Google's first servers and things like that. Okay, so we had all kinds of strange electrical stuff we'd have to deal with.

Yep.

And even downstairs, I have one of the first 2000 personal computers ever made. Like by, by hand, by Bill Gates and things like that.

Yeah. Cool.

In part because my mother worked for the company.

Oh, great. When she was small world. Yeah.

But that computer, if you don't ground yourself out before you touch it, the static electricity would shut it down.

That's how I come on to grounding.

That's how you came onto it. Because the tech industry doesn't work without that.

Because a lot of the computers that are not grounded, and if the climate's just right, then you touch computer, you're going to have static electricity on your clothing. And you touch the computer and that spark will create a glitch. And then you have to shut the computer down, bring it back up. And that's when I. One day I just recognized that, and I recognized that the computers weren't grounded and they were so sensitive. So I put a piece of copper tape, 1 inch wide copper tape, across my desk, taped it right down to the desk, and here's the keyboard. And then I connected it to an electrical ground because I knew then I would touch the tape and ground myself out before I would touch the computer. Then I could go to work and get something done.

It's incredible. You're bringing up Memories as I grew up in Albuquerque, which is a very high static electricity high desert.

Very high. Yeah.

And we would. We had a rule and we were touching early computers. My dad was in tech, so I had a pre DOS computer when I was eight.

Right.

And same thing. We'd always have to find a heavy piece of metal and touch it to ground ourselves out at least a little bit. But your solution was better. How did you make the connection between grounding yourself for tech and grounding yourself for health?

Boy, that's a loaded question. I retired when I was 50, 30 years ago from the communication because it was. Came into its own. Everyone and the money people had arrived.

They always break all the fun new stuff.

Yeah. And so it was no longer, you know, cutting edge. Well, it still is, but. But it was different. And I'm more of an entrepreneurial. If somebody else is doing it, don't need me around.

We can hang out. We're wired the same way.

Yeah. I have to be doing something on outside of the box. And so anyhow, I was fixing that computer. I was in Sedona, Arizona, of all places. Yep. And I was hanging out there for some reason because it's like living in a national park. It's beautiful and I loved it. And it had Oak Creek and it was just. And he had all the art galleries and I was a huge collector of art back in those days. And I was bored to death when I was there after a while. And all the art galleries there, they had all this nice art, but you had to have a baseball cap to go into a gallery because they had so many lights and they overlit everything. So I. They were having a famous artist that I was. Had a piece of anyway that was coming to Sedona and I knew the artist and I knew how. How his art needed to be displayed. So I talked the owner at the Landing Gallery down and said I wanted to. She was going to host us. Let me come in and create a scene or a set so that we could light it properly and display as. And it took me a while to talk her into it, but eventually I did. And yeah, it was a big deal. It was a big deal. It changed that whole. I became a lighting specialist. They didn't have a lot of money, you know, they didn't. But you get to play with the art. So it was fun and I enjoyed it. But I had to order some parts for that show. Some special lighting facility and stuff. And I was on the computer trying to order. My computer kept crashing. That's when I really kind of figured that out. And so I fixed it and got my order in. And then I went outdoors and I was sitting on a bench and it was right across from Tlakapaki, which is a little tourist area there where there's a lot of art and so on. So anyhow, but anyhow, this tour bus pulled up and for some reason, as they were getting off, they were marching off the bus and they were a little shorter in stature. I think they were Japanese. And they all had these big white Nike type tennis shoes on. And it was just intuitive. It came out of nowhere. I said, I wonder if there's a consequence to humans no longer being naturally grounded. This was 25. No, I don't know how many years ago, almost 30 years ago now. But I didn't know. I really didn't know.

So you learned to see the world through the eyes of someone who uses grounding every day.

Yeah.

And that led you to observe. Oh, look, humans are now ungrounded, even though we always have been grounded. And then I wonder, how did you go about deciding or figuring out that it caused a health problem?

Well, first of all, I was a cowboy. I was raised in Montana and I spent most of my time in boots prime. And in the summer we were barefoot all the time unless we were working in the field or doing something. And so I kind of. And if I were, if I would wear a tennis shoe, my feet would sweat.

Right.

And they stink. And I said, why would anybody do that? And now everybody's doing it. But anyhow, I went and fixed the computer. Then I was just interested. After seeing those tourists, I went home and I pulled out a voltmeter and a 30 foot long or maybe longer piece of cable screwdriver in the ground, a long one, Wrapped a wire around it, went in and connected it to the, the meter. And then I would take the test probe and I would hold it in my hand and I would walk around and I could measure all of it. The when I was standing barefoot on the earth, it was zero. But when I went in the house, then every time you take a step, static electricity is so, I mean, it's, it's everywhere. And everybody, no one, no one's really aware of it.

Right.

And the problems that it creates. But, but yeah, so I started measuring. I went into the kitchen. It wasn't too bad. The refrigerators are grounded. A lot of stuff is grounded in the, in the kitchen. And. But he go into the living room. I had a computer sitting there and television and whatever, and a carpet and all the static was just like you were doing 2 or 3,000 volts.

So you're measuring the voltage on your skin using an electrical meter and you're noticing, oh, look, when I go in different environments, the charge on my body changes electricity, okay?

And so then I went upstairs to the bedroom and recognized that the, the bedroom was the highest voltages in static in the house. Because you got a mattress that's full of static electricity, you've got synthetic bedding, curtain, I mean sheets, all that kind of stuff, carpets and just dry air. And so anyhow, somehow I went back to the hardware store and I picked up a roll of 2 inch wide metal duct tape that you would use for heating vents and yellow. And I laid it across the bed lengthwise, I connected it to a wire, threw it out the window, put the wire and connected it to a ground rod through a second wire out, connected it to the meter so I could hold the probe of the meter in my hand, sit on the bed, and I knew what the voltages were in that bedroom. And then I would lay down and put my feet and my bare skin on it and the meter would go to zero. So I knew I was grounded, just like in the cable industry or anything else, you know, So I, I just said, okay, well, there's something really going on here. I didn't know what it was because I was not aware of this charge on the body. Right. I did not realize that the human body was such an antenna. So anyhow, I mean, it made all sense in the world once I started playing with it because, you know, we were using microwave antennas and low power TV antennas and, and you don't, you can't ground any of that stuff because, you know, shorted out, you know. But anyhow, here's the human body of, you know, of a bag of water and mineral and whatever. And so you step into the room and then all of a sudden you are every. Whether it's static electricity is going to build on your body, whether it's the emf, all of those kind of things. But anyhow, so you create this charge on the body. And so I thought, well, you know, there's something going on here. So. But anyway, when I, that night, that first night, I laid down on the bed and I had the voltmeter laying right here in my hand. I remember I fell asleep and I woke up in the morning and I had that volt meter right by my side and I said, what in the world. Because it's morning. And I got up and I said, wow, there's something's going on here. I didn't really know what it was. I mean, how.

How dare you try something that no one's ever heard of and then notice an effect and talk about it? Shocking. But why should people do this?

Yeah, no, it was shocking. So anyhow, I just played around with it for a few days, grounded a couple of my friends. I said, you guys got to try this. One of them had severe arthritis in his hand. And he came over a couple days later and he says, you think this can have anything to do with arthritis? Because my pain is way down. Because I grounded his bed and. And I said, I don't think so. And then I got. And then I recognized the pain in my body, the chronic pain, the chronic ache.

Yeah. Stuff that builds up over time.

Yeah. And it all started to diminish and I didn't have to take the Advil at night to go to sleep. Wow. So I thought, wow, this is really something. And then the question I asked myself is, how come I didn't know about this?

It's. No one in, in Western society had known about that. We think the indigenous people around the world had some practices around our thing.

Oh, yeah, big time. But they didn't really understand the science of it, and they didn't have the electric fields and all that. Yeah, earthing is a whole different thing. You know, byproduct of earthing is shielding and reducing charge in the environment to pro. You know, so you have better signals, better sound, better video. The whole thing said, you know, I've got to find out more about this. So I went to. Down to the University of Arizona down in Tucson, met Gary Schwartz and a bunch of those guys, and I said, you got to help me out here. What's going on? And they didn't really know, and it was surprising. And then I went to the. Some of the medical libraries and nobody could give me any answers. And then I did research. And back then, all you had was aol. I remember it wasn't much, much to research. And so then I said, okay, I've had it. I'm going to go out to ucla. So I packed up my stuff and I drove out to ucla. I had a small motor home and I went out there and I made arrangements to go visit some people on a sleep lab.

This was in the 80s, probably.

No, this is in the 90s.

Nice. Okay. Early 90s.

Yeah. So I went out there and. And got this meeting and went in to have the meeting. There's a half a dozen students There. And one of the professors, I don't remember all the people, but he came into me and he looked at me. He had sort of like, he says, you expect us to believe that somebody's going to drive a nail in the ground, tie a whacker around it and put it around somebody's toe? Are they going to sleep better? He says, get out of here, you're nuts. Go away.

That can't be. Therefore it isn't. That stops. So much progress.

Yeah.

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So what happened? The university, they said, very, very simple. It cost you about five million dollars. Two and a half million goes to the university and probably two and a half million goes to the people that would do the study. And then there's no guarantee it would get published. I said, that doesn't make any sense.

Not at all, whatsoever.

So I packed up all my stuff and I left. But I kept the card from one of the students and I called him back and asked him. I said I, I needed to design a study so I can get more information so people can better understand what I'm doing right. And so I designed the first study, had 60 subjects, 30 of them grounded, 30 of them not. And the first thing we found out is they slept better, pain diminished, TMJ disappeared, PMS disappeared, it was blinded.

So they didn't know whether they were grounded or not.

Yeah, they were blinded, yes. They had a phony jimmied up ground wire.

Wow.

And what was really dumbfounding and probably the most important thing that I learned then, because I thought it was the fields. I really honestly thought that while these fields are electrifying the body, which they are, it's measurable sitting here, not being grounded. You have a charge on your body, period. One day when I was doing that first study, I, you know, then the nurse that was in charge drew a couple of names out and I would go out and insult them because nobody else really knew what I was doing. So I installed two people. Both of them were about 80 years old. One of them was female, one of them was male. The one who was male, they had just had bypass surgery and all kinds of health, and he was death warmed over. And. But when I went into his bedroom and to ground his bend in per the study, he didn't have any electric fields in his bedroom.

So it wasn't the field.

No, no, none whatsoever. And so I thought to myself, this is a waste of a test pad. And. But he was a nice guy. So I did everything. And so then I went across town, this was in Ventura, and I went across town, and here was this woman who was like 80 years old, and she had flaring arthritis in both wrists. And she was just sitting there watching tv. That's the only thing she could really do because there wasn't a lot they could do for arthritis back then and a lot of pain. So I went into her bedroom grounded. And it had the highest level of EMFs that I'd ever seen. It was like 18 to 20 volts of EMF charge on her body while she was sitting. But she had heating pads. She had older antique type lamps with metal lamp posts, and so they were radiating electric fields. And her son came along and I said, well, I need to test her to find out what the voltage is. So I measured her voltage to see what her body voltage was. And then after I was talking for a few minutes, she says, well, this one's working, but this one isn't. And you could feel the difference. The one that was working was the one going to the meter she couldn't have felt because it wasn't going the ground. It was just the test meter. That's. That's interesting. So I swapped the patches, connected the meter to the other one and turned it around. And a few minutes later, she says, now it's working. And what it was doing is it was reducing pain rapidly. And so anyhow, that night I, on the way home, I went to the, you know, Medical supply house and grabbed a whole bunch of electrode patches because that's what I used anyway for testing. And I went and called up a couple of people and gave him a cord and just a patch. And I said, I want you to take this, put it on your body and call me today and tell me, tell me what you experience. And a couple, three days later I started getting these calls. They call it the magic pain patch. And so it didn't matter what kind of pain you had. You could put then electric EKG patch, ecg, ecg, whatever patch, and it connects it to a ground run. And I always put 100k resistor in it just so it was safe for.

Everybody and for listeners. This is in the US the round part of the plug. So don't plug yourself into actual power because you could catch on fire and it would hurt. Yes, in Europe it's much harder to do. And so that's a whole different discussion. And the resistor he's talking about, make sure that if lightning or there's some kind of un unaccounted for surge happens, that you don't get shocked from that.

Yeah, that's all built into the earthing cords. So anyhow, about a month later we went back to or the nurse went back to collect the data from those two individuals. I never had contact again, but she brought that in and put it on a desk. And I, and I was walking by and I looked at it and I said, there's something wrong here. That can't possibly be because the older guy, he had more. He had no electric vehicle, he only had one lamp in his bedroom and, and it was 10ft away from the bed. But the woman, she had everything you could possibly have in a heating pads, all that kind of stuff. But they both had the same result. They both had a reduction in inflammation, they both had significant reduction in pain, they both slept better. And then there was a list of other things and I said, this can't be. So I took them, the samples. I took him home and I checked him and I said, you know, everything's right. And so then I would, I took a, a long wire and I would put a capacitor in it so I could measure just the electrons moving back and forth, but for some reason that wasn't reducing pain. And then I would ground the housing of a coax cable so that there could be no electric field, you know, because the electric field will be reduced and grounded out with a shield.

And that's the shielding you see around those fat round cables from the cable industry, right?

Yeah. Shielding. A lot of homes have shielding, shielded wiring. And I did three or four things because what I was trying to figure, what is causing this? How can this possibly be? Because it wasn't the removing the electric field, because the people. The guy that didn't have any electric field, he had the same results.

So you're adding something in.

Yeah. What was coming up? That wire. That's the question.

The electron.

Well, that's part of it. There's two things that come up. That comes up. Well, one of them is the electrons, of course, because the Earth has a natural native surface charge. So when you stand on it, then your body absorbs that charge and equalizes with it. Then the human body has no charge.

And that's when it works best.

Well, from the beginning of time, the first, Amelia. And leave it all in the branches of life. They were all grounded.

They're floating in the ocean. That's pretty good grounding.

Yeah. And everything evolved, connected to the Earth, including us. We couldn't get out of the mud 50 years ago or 100 years ago. Now you can't get back to the earth. You can't touch it. But what I learned was the body's charged, so it has a positive charge from the. The noise, but most of all, inflammation. So then I realized it was the Earth itself that was producing these results. It wasn't. It wasn't the fields. The fields are problematic. But that's not going. That's not. That doesn't cause inflammation. The only thing that can cause inflammation is not having enough redox potential or not having enough free electrons to reduce the remnant reactive oxygen species that are left over after an oxidative burst.

Sometimes, when you're a cowboy, keep in mind I grew up in New Mexico. You just have to make stuff that works.

That's right. Not a bailing wire, a pair of pliers, if you're lucky.

You're pretty close.

Electrical cabling.

So you had this fascinating discovery. The traditional establishment said, yeah, that cannot be, therefore it isn't. And then you. You persevered and you did a study and you found it worked and you wrote a little book about it, which I'd read. And then you partnered with Steven Sinatra, as I recall. What happened there?

Well, I had done the first study myself, and then I completed a second study down in San Diego with a. An anesthesiologist who had just retired. And he didn't believe it either, but he didn't have anything to do. And he said, I'll entertain you. He Said, I'll prove that you're wrong. I remember that. But I loved the guy and we had a lot of fun and we went out and grounded a dozen people and we measured saliva cortisol and heart rate variability and a handful of other things. Now, there wasn't hardly anybody in the United States that could even understood what heart rate variability.

I was an Advisor to the HeartMath Institute in 2008 and a training thing. So I my listeners know heart rate variability. And if you're a new listener, the spacing between your heartbeats is a very clear signal of how stressed or recovered your body is. If you can increase it, say by earthing, that means earthing works.

Right. So we got these significant results from the cortisol, because before everybody's cortisol was kind of like spaghetti. There was like 12 people in the study. And we measured their cortisol every four hours for 24 hours. And then we plotted it on, on a chart so you could see them individually. And then we grounded them for six weeks, eight weeks. And then we went back, took the cortisol, saliva cortisol again, and measured heart rate variability again. And then we compared all of that. Well, all of the subjects who were grounded throughout study, their cortisol all synchronized the lowest at midnight, go along till about 4am, pretty much steady, very low. And then at 4am it starts to climb rapidly until about 6 o' clock it reaches a peak, which is what.

It'S supposed to do.

And then it drops off throughout the day and at night, you know, somewhere around 10 o' clock at night, it drops back down to that flat line. So I learned two things. One, if you aren't sleeping is because your cortisol is elevated.

That is so true. And the people wake up the middle of the night, it's because blood sugar goes down. Body says, oh, I got some cortisol to raise your blood sugar. And then you have racing thoughts.

Exactly.

Since you're dropping the cortisol, they're not having that problem.

Yeah. So Dr. Golly, he couldn't understand the heart rate variability. And so there was a group of cardiologists coming to town and they were, you know, CEUs or whatever, continuing education program and teach. Stephen Sinatra was one of the teachers. And so we figured, well, let's go check with these guys. They've got to know because the heart's electrical, because nobody else knows that anything in their body is electrical.

Fair point.

And this wasn't that long ago. It's really amazing.

They've been Brainwashed to believe we're only chemical. It has started back in the early 1900s, but we're very clearly electrical.

We're electrical first, then chemical.

Yeah.

Got them to have some electrons moving around to create a new chemical. But. But anyhow, so we went over there and we told Stephen what we were doing, and he said, wow. He says, if you're reducing pain, you need to investigate inflammation. Inflammation, to me, was playing tennis, and you sprained an ankle and it hurts like heck. Yep. For when it swells up. So anyhow, nobody could read the heart rate variability. None of the. Even the cardiologists. Yep.

They didn't teach you back then.

They didn't really understand what it was because it was developed in Russia and brought to the United States, and they started pushing it around in. Around 2000, I think.

And interestingly, the guys doing all the research that. That made this popular in the U.S. it's an electrical engineer who's doing it, Roland McCready, who's been on the show from Heart Path.

Okay.

So you got to have people understand the electricity who start looking at biology, because the biology people already believe we're not electrical.

Yeah. They don't understand. Yeah. And, you know, it's all about food and whatever, and it is, but it isn't. So that's how. That's how I connected with Stephen. And there's a lot of stories there. And Stephen was a great help because they were doing some testing and doing some studies, and they had me participate in one of them, and my blood vessels had more elasticity than anybody in the group. And I wasn't a cardiologist. And they said, what do you do? I said, the only thing I do is ground.

Yeah.

And. But that's when Stephen took a real big interest in it. And he. And. But he told me, he said, if you're looking. If you. If you're reducing pain, he says, you have to realize you. You have to begin studying oxidative stress because pain is a byproduct of oxidation. You can't have pain unless you have some oxidation somewhere, some reactive oxygen, reducing radicals and creating radicals to reduce pathogens and whatever. And then any remnants of those, if they're not grounded out immediately. It took me a long time to figure that one out. But if you don't ground out these reactive oxygen species, then they'll attack a nearby cell, steal electron, and then another neutrophil will come over and try to fix that. And then you. So you set up a chain reaction. That's the fire of inflammation because there's not enough. There's no. Not enough redox potential, not enough free electrons to somewhere about that time, that's when the bell went off, I said, you know, basically all I'm doing is throwing water on a fire because inflammation is oxidation. Right.

That is what fire is.

And so, but anyhow, then I recognized that these electrons that we're adding to the body are reducing this inflammation. So what they're doing is just restoring what nature had relied on throughout all of time. Because the body was always grounded. You didn't have to think about it. It's like air. You didn't have to think about it, but it was there. Suddenly it was there, and you didn't even have to know about it.

It's incredible how much of that knowledge was kind of lost, especially in the West. And as you said, the Russians have always had a really unique electrical view of the body, which is like some of the best biohacking has come out of Russia over the last 60, 70 years. What I liked about Dr. Sinatra was that he kind of put his career at risk. He was a bit of a maverick cardiologist. He spoke at the very much longevity nonprofit group that I ran many, many years ago in Palo Alto. And even then, for someone with a medical license to go out and. And write a book with you and to really back up what you were saying, that's a huge risk to your license when you're willing to say something new. And he had the. He had the balls to do it. And I'm really sad because he was scheduled to speak at one of my big biohacking conferences, I believe the one two years ago. And sadly, he passed a couple of weeks before the conference, So I didn't get to put him on the main stage. But he. He deserved it because he was willing to be curious.

Yeah, Stephen was out of the box guy. Yeah. You know, he was. We were like brothers. He said, clint, this is the most important thing that I've ever discovered. He said, Coq 10 and grounding.

Yeah, that was. He was the guy who was a big Coq 10 fan. Yeah, it was him and Julian Whitaker.

Yeah.

Were the two big people saying, guys, your body will grow new blood vessels if you give her the things you need. I even called. I reached out to Stephen and Julian Whitaker about 20 years ago, and my dad had a heart attack and got advice from them because it was. It was important to not just do what the Westerners think. You gotta. You gotta know everything.

Yep.

So over the years, since you Came out with this. We'll call it a new discovery or maybe a rediscovery. How's the public perception been?

It's. It's like when you make a discovery, being an entrepreneur, it's the greatest day of your life. The next day is the saddest day of your life because you learn that nobody else knows what you know. Yeah. And you have to teach people one at a time. So I started out grounding one person at a time, and then small groups and the guys really had a. They were really challenged with grounding because I heard it so many times. Well, if this were true, I would have known about it. Somebody would have told me about this.

Someone just did tell you.

And I went through that myself. How come I didn't know this?

And you're an expert in graph.

I was the pioneer and all this stuff, and the women were different. I could meters on the table, do whatever, do tests, whatever, and they would all immediately just reach over, push it away.

Interesting.

See, I don't want no tech. Women do not like some guy standing up there and screaming at them about a tech. They said, tell us what it does. And if it does what you say it does, then give me two. One for me and one for my mom. That's how it started.

Wow.

So after that, I tried to avoid men at all costs because they just want to jack around, and they go.

Into the head a lot and just argue.

Yeah, and just argue. And where's the proof? Whatever. And they don't understand electromagnetism. They don't understand the fundamentals of it. And somebody grabs a meter and they measure an emf. Well, that's great. Where's the EMF really coming from? You know, what is going on? If you want to fix that, there's bigger issues because, you know, it's like the wiring in your wall. If that's your problem, it's not some little cord laying here on the floor. So I tried to avoid the guys, and the women were just unbelievable. You ground a woman, and within six months, she's grounded another six, eight women. So over a period of 24 years, our customers are still 99% women.

No kidding.

Yeah. The guys that buy are the ones who. The wife convinced them or did something or bought a bed pad and made him sleep on it. Most of the time, the wives don't even tell their husbands that there's a earthing mat under the feet because they don't want to take the abuse. So the women, it just is. It's an organic thing. I couldn't have done it myself. They, they, the women have done this. The only thing I've ever done is tried to keep the prices as low as I possibly could. And the only thing I ever really did out there was, you know, David Wolf stumbled in one day and. And he fell in love with grounding. He said. He said, all. Yeah, all you need in life is grounding and raw food. And I said, well, you're pretty close. But anyhow, so as that organization grew, they kind of got, you know, too.

Big and got a little sideways there. And.

Yeah.

For listeners who aren't in the health space for a long time, David Avocado Wolf was one of the leading proponents of the raw vegan movement. And guys, I was a raw vegan. It screwed up my health. And I gave a talk at his conference. Like, that was when we first met, right. And I said, yeah, I hope you'll forgive me, but I'm a lacto ovo beefo porco vegetarian. Hope we could be friends. And I explained why they should eat ghee with their vegetables. And the next year, when I went back to David's conference, 2/3 of the audience wasn't vegan anymore because they were eating a cow product called ghee.

Exactly.

And because they felt so much better, including David. So I'm like, I dezed a bunch of people.

Yeah. Even myself. Yeah. Cool.

And you at that conference, you were selling them. And I also, at the time, was selling Earthing.com products. I had a very small store when I first started, Bulletproof. It was called Upgrade itself.

And.

And yours was one of the first products that I ever got out there because I'm like, we have to change our environment to make our bodies healthy. And the electrical environment is a huge variable that no one except for you was talking about. You and Dr. Tennant.

Right.

Who's also a friend, who. Who's written multiple books. One of the ceiling is voltage. Like, there. There's something going on in here.

You know, I've spent the last 25 years, at least, or more, 24, 7, working on this because it affects the life of every person on the planet.

It doesn't. It's one thing. If you know it, you say, it's worth not being grounded. It's nothing if you don't know it and you're in pain and things aren't working. And maybe all I had to do is take your shoes off and go outside for a little while. I noticed meaningful changes if I do this after I fly. Because you build up a Big charge when you fly huge changes. And here's a little story for you. I bet you don't know Dr. Jeff Spencer, who's on the show, years ago, was a team doctor for the Tour de France. Do you know Jeff?

No, I know Jeff.

Oh, you do?

Okay, very well. Maybe you know the story grounded Tour de France seven, eight years in a row.

Yeah, he told me a story. He said, dave, I had to sneak out at night and hammer the grounding stakes in because I didn't want my competitors to know why my athletes were always winning.

Right.

So he was using your tech secretly.

Right.

In order to get. Call it an unfair advantage, although it was fair for the team, and that's amazing. Like, these guys don't mess around. They do stuff that works.

We build special sleeping bags for them. We call them recovery bags.

Okay, cool.

And so when, after they would get done with the race, they would go to triage, do whatever, take care, and then put them in the bags. And some of them we would put, like. You've seen the electrode patches?

Yeah, yeah.

Some of them would have, you know, a dozen electrode patches on their body because, you know, they hit the dirt and skidded down the asphalt or whatever, and road rash, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, so they would put the patches on them and ground them out. And the thing that was miraculous about the grounding was every rider with the U.S. postal team and Team Discovery, they finished the race. The whole team finished the race.

Which is unusual.

Which was unusual. Totally unusual. And what it was. And the doctors were totally blown away because the guys were healing up overnight. One guy had a big gash where you could see flesh and everything. And whereas where the sprocket or the chain came up and slipped and hit the sprocket, and the next morning, I mean, we put patches all over him and whatever and grounded him out and everything. The next morning, he was 70% recovered, sufficient enough to get back on the bike and go back in the race. But that's how phenomenal grounding is. The changes that happen in the human body, when you reduce the inflammation, then the immune system can clean up the mess around it, and then it can go back to work and return the body to normal. And that's what it does. And it does it quite quickly. And we don't even have to understand it. It just happens.

I. I've been in a few debates with people where we have clear evidence that something works. And they say, well, I'm not going to use it unless I know how it works, right? Okay, so you need a reason it works, right? Yeah.

Great.

Leprechauns.

Yeah.

I go. What? You said you needed a story about why it worked. I just gave you a story. Was that one not good enough for you? How about we don't know why it works, but it's reliable, repeatable and blinded studies.

Yeah.

From a mental and a scientific and a curiosity perspective, it's wonderful to know how stuff works. The problem though is that our standard model for physics doesn't describe physics that well. It's only, you know, 95% accurate. We don't know how works. We really don't. But we're figuring it out one question at a time when we're not too cynical.

Yeah, that's why I've done, I promoted, I haven't done these studies. I promoted them, bundled them, done whatever to get people to do these things.

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Stephen called me up one day and had me fly back to Connecticut and he said, I got a dozen docs here and he says, we're going to draw blood on every one of them and we're going to put dark wheel the white field and so we can look at the blood and then we're going to ground them for 30 minutes or an hour and then we'll go back and look at it. The first thing we learned was that all the blood separated instantly. So the question became, in all these docs said, well, this is all great, but why? How does grounding do that? How does grounding make the blood separate? How does it return it to normal viscosity? Nobody knew. And so then Gaetan Chevalier down in San Diego and Stephen and a couple of us return, we got together and we created a way that we could measure electrons on red blood cells.

Oh, cool.

So we knew that if your blood is thick and sticky and you're on blitheners and all that kind of stuff, it's because your, your blood doesn't have enough electrons. I mean, they're sharing electrons and sticking together and creating a real lung formations and so on. But as soon as you ground the body to the earth, the blood travels once a minute throughout the system. And what we found was, is after 30 minutes, we increased the negative surface charge, the number of electrons on red blood cells by 270%. That's a published study. That's Access to the World. Everybody has.

That's actually news. I have not come across that study.

Okay, that's Stephen's blood viscosity. Study it.

And for, for listeners, there's a whole field of research called dark field microscopy where you look at living blood. It's very common in Europe. We've been able to do it for a very long time. In the US, there's been concerted efforts by big pharma companies to say that there's no validity to it, which is frankly, nonsense. You can see, and I've been doing this for 30 years, going to someone who does it, and you can see are your red blood cells stacked together, which means that you're at a higher risk of stroke and heart attack and clots, or are they floating freely and anything you do that changes it, whether it's coenzyme Q10 or sunlight or earthing, you can measure a difference. In fact, some of the tech that I have here in, in something like 20 studies using dark field microscopy can affect blood coagulation. This isn't even earthing. This is a quantum thing, but it's a way of knowing whether it works.

This is what happens to. It won't be able to show this on the screen, but this is what happens to a cardiologist's blood. This is before.

Oh, this is cool. I'll hold that up. We can probably get on the camera. If not, if you send us this, we'll.

Yeah, you can have that or I can send you the slides. And I don't know if the camera.

Can zoom in on that. So that's first one fluffy stuck together and then the second one, that's just.

By grounding the body to earth. That's just by putting your bare feet on the earth.

And even better, this is a cardiologist blood, which is. These are funny.

These are all cardiologist blood. There was a dozen of them in the study.

You're reminding me of what happened to me with this weird idea of putting butter and MCT oil in coffee. There was a very pronounced effect and millions of people started doing it. And I had six proposed reasons why I thought it might work. I wrote about them in my book. And it turns out probably the, the main reason people were getting this burst of energy and the reason that Tibetans do this at high altitude wasn't on the list because it was a researcher at the University of Washington where I funded some research. And his name is Dr. Gerald Pollock.

I know.

You know, I'm guessing you might have met him. Well, good, good guy, great guy. And he figured out that weird, if you have butter oil or MCT oil and you expose it to water, especially water and heat, that it makes a very thick form of water called exclusion zone that you can see on a microscope. It's not airy, very structured water like snowflakes, which might work too. But it was hard science. And he said, oh look, it turns out those two molecules. And this explained why you had to blend butter into your danger coffee, let's say, but that if you ate the butter and drank the coffee it wouldn't work. And that just to just drive me crazy. We could say that it worked, we could show that it worked. But the science took a while to explain why.

Right.

And maybe there's another reason. We don't even know.

You know, there's hard to say. You get down there, there's a lot of stuff going on.

When you got into earthing, you must have looked at ayurvedic approaches, Native American approaches. What did you find in the historical records around earthing practices?

Well, in the historical records, a lot of the tribes, indigenous cultures around the world, when they're somebody was sick, they would bury them in the earth. And how I discovered that was when I was a kitten, before I knew anything about grounding. I think it was on the Cheyenne reservation down southern southeastern Montana. A girl was sick and she had scarlet fever. And there wasn't much they could do for them. They had taken her to the doc, they sent her home and whatever. And so anyhow, one of the grandfathers came out and they dug a pit in the ground, but I don't know what the size was because I was pretty small. Then put a pit in the ground and then put some straw in it and laid the girl in it and then built a fire close by. He sat there for days. And eventually. And I didn't understand any of it at the time, but eventually the fever broke, whatever. And a couple days later, she's up, running around like nothing ever happened. And so that was the. That was my own visual observation of that. And I know that animals do that all the time. You know, they're. If they're injured, they're going to dig down a little bit and put their butt in the. In the earth. And I've seen that forever with especially cats and dogs and when they tear each other up or indigenous cultures, and a lot of them still to this day in the Amazon and wherever they bury the people in the earth when they're sick and break the fevers and so what they're doing. When you touch the earth, your body absorbs all of those free electrons so that you and the earth are equal. You're at earth potential. And the body is like animals in the wild. Cancer rarely, if ever exists in the natural populations. Very rare animals who live indoors with their owners, a lot more, 50% of them die from cancer, just like at the same rate that their owners do. So this is a. An environmental disorder.

And if you look at what most people's sheets are made of today, it's polyester. And I just bought an RV and I needed sheets for it, so I went into Walmart, which haven't been in a while, and I could not find anything made out of cotton. And I don't really sleep on electrical insulators, but. How many dog beds do you know of that are made of conductive materials? But you can get an earthing mat and you can put it on top of your dog's bed and solve the problem.

Well, that's what we do. I mean, the cats, they. If there's a grounded mat in the house, the cats will find it and be there immediately. Dogs, they're more social. They like to play, so they stay with their master and so on, but. But they love to sleep on the grounded mats.

Yes. My kids have slept on earthing pads for a long time. I did that as soon as they had cribs. Really?

Wow.

Because there's clear evidence it's unlikely to cause harm. It's pretty evidence it's good for them. I don't think they're probably doing it right now because. Yeah, you know, stuff happens, but I. I do. I sleep on one.

Yeah.

And it's very inexpensive to get an earthing.com thing. And guys, this isn't like a, you know, we're here to sell your earthing stuff. Like you said. Quinn's been retired for a long time. He started a company to make cool stuff. So if it's a. This appeals to you, it is quite affordable. The other thing I've used for years is make a little pad that goes on your desk so when your hands are resting on a mouse pad or your keyboard tray, you can be earth. And I've done that for so long.

Yeah. There are millions and millions and millions of those that have been sold around the world. We call it the poor man's sleep mat. Yeah. Because. But. But it's. They sleep directly on it.

You can put it on your bed too.

And it works. It works instantly. Yeah.

I traveled with one for years.

Yeah.

I kind of fell out of the habit. And one of the things that always drove me crazy is to go to Europe. They don't ground the electrical system the same way. So I brought alligator clips and I would ground it to the shielding on the cable system for the tv because that was the best ground I could.

Fucking works perfectly. I didn't want to go that route because of the fittings and. Oh, yeah, I didn't. Everything just kind of evolved. I didn't really push any of this. I just wanted to get the research done because I knew how important it was, especially with autism and various. All these crazy chronic health disorders, debilitating health disorders.

So if listeners wanted to do something about their. Their earthing, number one, that's free. Number three, go outside barefoot for 20 minutes in the morning. At least drop that charge.

Yep.

Number two, I think would be have an earthing pad, even the small one or earthing sheets, and use it sometime throughout the day. But how often do you have to do it?

Well, how long do you need to be grounded in nature? You would be grounded 24, 7, and you would have help. Your biggest obstacles would be famine, war, infectious disease, and so on. But in as far as these degenerative health disorders that most people are suffering from, those don't exist in nature. So these are environment. These are. We disconnected from the earth. We're now. We're now positively charged. We gave up our negative charge. We gave up this umbrella. And it is an umbrella that protected us from inflammation and. And inflammation. Once the body starts. You start a fire, then it Taxes the immune system. The immune system becomes compromised and then it can no longer function. So it can only take care of certain things. And then, you know, and the story goes on, but, but anyhow. So what I have found is any amount of grounding is better than no grounding. If you have no money and you can't do anything else, then the best thing you can do is get up in the morning, go outdoors and stand on the Earth for 20 to 30 minutes, because that will drain all of the inflammation out of your body, oxygenate your tissue and, and your blood viscosity will normalize. Everything normalizes now. Then you can go back. You're charged right now. You can go back and run for a while. But as soon as pain comes up, that means stop, get grounded, and stay grounded until pain goes away, because you can't have pain in a grounded body and so on. So it depends on your lifestyle, depends on what you eat, depends on. But the biggest problem that I have learned about what causes inflammation is anger and jealousy and all of this crazy lifestyle stuff. What it does is it fills the body full of cortisol because every time you, your fight or flight is triggered or cued, then it'll squirt some cortisol. And if you live in a chronically elevated mental state that is, you know, challenging, then that's going to fill your body full of cortisol. The cortisol is going to create anxiety, irritability, oftentimes depression, then, then after that it goes into the oxidative degenerative diseases. So the answer is this. If you have pain in your body, your body's on fire. You need to go get grounded. There you go.

I like that. I've experimented with grounding shoes over the years and, and I know that if I had leather soles in my shoes that weren't finished with plastic, and I wore cotton or wool socks.

Yeah.

And I didn't have an insole made out of cork, which is an insulator or made out of any kind of plastic. And I was walking outdoors on a surface that was probably moist. I'd probably get some electrons, but not very many. So there's a couple companies that make shoes and I've advertised them before. I always ran into problems with comfort though, because there's usually a big piece of metal that it doesn't flex like the rest of the shoe. So, I mean, I really got into this and I said, all right, I know the worst time is when I'm on airplanes. So I took a 9 volt battery. I can't believe no one called the police or something because I'm sitting in an airplane pushing a battery in my shoe, not thinking about this. I guess in first class you get a. You get a pass. But I had a conductive patch. One of the patches you talked about connected to the negative terminal deniable battery on the inside of my ankle. Figure that's going to soak up all my extra current. I felt like garbage for a week. And then acupuncturist had to come in and do some stuff to fix me. What did I do wrong?

You used a 9 volt battery.

I tried a 12 volt, but it was too heavy. You know, what should I have done or what was wrong with my approach?

The only thing you can do on an airplane is take your shoe off and put your foot up against that metal strut that's holding the seat in place.

The whole airframe isn't grounded though. And it's building up a charge itself, isn't it?

Yeah, it's kind of positive. And. But it's streaming off the plane. It's not. Okay, so it's not internally. Okay.

There's no bare metal there you can reach anymore. Anyway, for a lot of these there may be. I don't paint it now.

Yeah, they probably paint everything now. But anyhow, so there's not a lot you can do, you know, in, in. Because you're in free space, you know.

Is there a portable source of electrons I could carry with me and plug into my butt or something like, like, give me the secret. Think outside the box. Like I want to have a box of electrons I can use so I could be disconnected.

That's what I've been working on for 20 years ago.

Okay?

20 years ago, I said to myself, I said, you know what I mean is because blueberries were the most popular thing.

Oh yeah.

Everybody, you know the reason you have all these health disorders? Because you're not eating enough blueberries.

Yeah, that might not be the reason.

No, but that's what they were. That was the mantra. And so anyhow, I remember one day I said to myself, I said, you know what I need is I need a blueberry. I need a portable earthing device. I need something that, you know, it's charged up. And so when you're not grounded, you just put it up against your body and then your body absorbs the electrons and it keeps you negative.

Why is that so hard?

Well, I've been working on it for 20 years. I have yellow.

No way. You have a device. I didn't even know you had one for real. You have one. Oh my gosh.

I was having jokes ready and it shouldn't be going out there yet, but, but anyhow, so.

But we are getting close to be super life changing.

Well, that's what, you know, I've been. I have Jeff War researchers working on it up in San Diego. And yeah, so what. This is what the world is missing. They need a portable earthing. And, and I'll demonstrate this. But just, you know, all you got to do is put two different fingers on the.

Okay. Like that. Yeah, this is the coolest thing you.

Can do that for now. But anyhow, so, so what we had to do is first of all, you have to know what. You can't just go inject a current into the body.

It doesn't work very Well. I mean, Jerry 10 will tell you which currency you probably could put where. But it's complex and it's not Earth day.

Very, very complex.

Yeah.

And we learned about seven, eight years ago how much electrons the body is absorbing.

You know the numbers. So you have the right dose.

Yeah. So we know that when you touch the earth this happens. And it's a secret. We don't tell anybody because it took me years and years to figure this out. And I don't know what to do with it yet. Because you can't just buy a battery and put something on it because it goes like this at the speed of light. And all it does is you close couple with Earth's electric field. Earth has a big DC electric charge. So when you step into that and touch it and become grounded, then you couple with it. Your whole body couple up couples. So you are the same now as the earth. And now the electrons can move in and out and move around because you've taken the charge off. Otherwise the charge, like when you're ungrounded, then static electricity and all this stuff in your environment is holding a charge on your body and it's reducing the ability of electrons to work. So trying to figure out how many electrons are involved. Then you have to understand the environment. So it's like, you know, a key fob where you go and punch the key fob for your car door. I mean, your body is coupling with the key fob and sending a signal out there. Right. So your body is part of the transmit antenna.

People don't know this. You hold it up against your chin. You can turn your car on from three times as far away because probably better couples with your boom.

Yeah, yeah. So there's a. There's all these things involved. And so what I'm trying to do, or what I had to do was, okay, now we know that it's not measurable in a. Because it's. You're measuring something that happens at the speed of light. It is measurable. But setting up the document, too expensive. Yeah, yeah. It's too much, too complicated. So anyhow, so then, now we have produced 30 peer reviewed, published studies over the last 25 years. The next one coming out is going to be on mitochondria and increase production of ATP just by putting your little toe on the earth because you can't have inflammation when you're grounded. And if you have inflammation, then it's going to affect the membrane of the, of the mitochondria which is going to reduce the production of ATP. So this is all inflammation related. Grounding doesn't increase ATP, gets rid of the charge so the body can record re produce normal ATP.

Okay. Just lets the body go back to normalcy.

Yeah.

When are these going to be available?

I don't know. I'm working on it.

All right, well work faster, man.

Well, what the heck, you know, how much trouble can I get into here? Here's your shoes. I, I gave away like 65,000 pair last year.

Wow. Oh, you make shoes? I haven't tried your. You know what, I haven't tried yours. I got size 16ft. You don't make me my size.

All we're doing is trying to figure out if there's a market because there's a hundred people out there playing with it, but they don't ground you. And they got run a nail through it or something or rivet. But anyhow, so these are, have a 100% conductive platform and then inside they have 100% and they get through the phone or then they have 100% layer of conductive rubber.

Okay.

I mean they're married together. Body perspiration, especially on your feet, is the most conductive solution on planet Earth.

Yep. Super salt water.

So you don't need copper and you don't need all these things. What you need is you need to put your shoe in or put your foot in the shoe and automatically within seconds it's going to create enough perspiration that's going to saturate, hydrate the sock, hydrate the insole and connect with that huge ground plane that we've created.

As long as you're standing on something that's also earth. Right. If you're standing on a, a polyester car bay you're not going to get much. Right.

Well then, no, this is something else. And again, I'm not reluctant to share things sometimes not because I, I would love to share everything, but the world is full of pirates.

We get them all the time.

We have 200 knockoff earthing. They use our name, they steal our, they steal our images, they steal our videos.

So frustrating.

You know, so it's an crazy world out there. Yeah.

I've had so many people pirate my, my stuff.

Yeah. But you can't over and over. So all you can do is just keep doing the right thing. So what I did is we have been putting these shoes out there in mass and these are $120 shoes that were, that we were giving away right now. I mean that's what they would normally sell for. And those are already available on the market. Not really. I mean, we don't sell them, we give them away.

Give them away. Okay.

Because we were trying to educate. You have to, you can't just go out there and scream, well, you know, I got a grounded shoot.

Well, market education.

Yeah, market education. And then you have two kinds of charge dissipation. One, if you're standing on the earth, you're going to be, you're going to be earth. You're going to ground and equalize with the earth. But if you're in the house and standing on carpet and you're wearing rubber solid shoes, then each step you take, you're going to create 2 to 5,000 volts of static charge contact separation. So now if you have non conductive shoe on, that charge is going to stay and bleed off.

Oh, this keeps you from building up the charge.

So this helps reduce and prevent the charge. And surprisingly we've had women and hairdressers and women who work on their feet all day and, and they just swear by these shoes and they're standing there on carpet, insulated from the earth. And so all we're doing is re. We're not as eliminating the static electricity. We're creating a path for static electricity to rapidly get back to working.

You stop it from building up.

Yeah.

So I'm dumping it. But you're not getting more.

As soon as I, as soon as the public finds out about that, they'll, they'll all go crazy and say, well, you know this, you know, it doesn't matter. I can't do anything about what the Internet does in Google.

And I've got three, three people I could introduce you to who are all making shoes with wide toe boxes for Barefoot people who are all aware of grounding. These are, all, these are white, toe box, beautiful. Okay, so you don't need to talk to anybody.

And we only want to market to the Earthing people to begin with because they're the only ones that understand what it is. But we want to give them the shoes so they can experience it. If they have a life changing experience, please tell us and let's share it with the world and help people understand this. Because somebody's got to make the investment, the educational investment. And that's what I've done most of my life. Yeah. I've never sold a product in my life. Wow. All I've ever done is David Wolf was the one who jumped on this verse and he said, you know, this is God's gift to the world, whatever. And it is, it's a birthright. But everybody, you know, got too crazy about the money. You know, they don't realize how, how much work is involved to educate and to. But you have to be very responsible if you're going to take people's money. You got to give them something or it will work. And you have to be really, really careful about making promises about what grounding will do, because grounding will do what our studies show that it does. But you have to replicate the environment.

Of the study, the environment of the.

Study or the type of conductivity or the type of grounding. But anyhow, I wanted to share that with you.

I'm intrigued. This audience, I would say almost universally understands that grounding is important.

Okay.

And it's only taken, let's see, since 2011. What is that, 14 years? 13 years.

Yeah.

And $90 million to do a little bit of education in the world about biohacking. But Earthing has been a part of it since the very start because of your work. And guys, you're always looking for the latest biohack, you know, and I. So am I. And I've done, you know, central circadian clock resets with stem cells and ultrasound and gene therapy. I've done everything. Some of that's kind of expensive. So are supplements. This is a one time cost. What's the lowest end product? Like 30 bucks or something for the thing that goes on the desk?

29.95 on up to a couple hundred bucks max. Yeah.

So basically you do a one time expense. So if you're saying I'm on a limited budget, this is one of those things that's. You do it once, you put it somewhere, you're going to touch it often and you get benefits over time. So this should be in your biohacking stack. Just because it's not a lot of work, there's not a lot of money.

You're going to have better outcomes with all your biohacks. If you're grounded in the first place.

Or you want to upregulate mitochondrial function, that's.

Yeah.

Dropping the charge might help a little bit.

Yeah, well, it's essential. It's really essential.

It's worth the time because some things are expensive every month. Some things are just really expensive. This is affordable. You have 30 studies over 25 years. There's enough there that you can tell there's something there. And maybe there's stuff we don't know, but we do know that it does a lot of really good things. So everyone should be aware of this.

Yeah. And they can do their own experiments. Just take a chair and go outdoors. If you have an aura, Ray, take your shoes off. Yeah, I have one.

You can measure your heart rate variability, like it on your bed, see if variability changes. It probably will.

Yeah. You can do a lot of experimenting. You're going to with grounding. You can affect everything.

Clint, your work has definitely changed the world and it's going to continue to do that. And it. It's definitely changed my awareness of things since the very early days of biohacking. So sincere thanks for all you've done. Can't wait for you to get these new little unavailable devices and the shoes out there. No.

Fuck.

Our audience wants this. And this isn't about, you know, making a ton of money. This is about people who want to buy something that has benefits and just providing value in exchange for value. Which is, I think, how the world's supposed to work, I think.

So that's what. I'm a cowboy from Montana. That's the way it used to work.

Yeah.

Taking care of each other.

There's still a lot of that out there.

Yeah.

You've done great things, and it's really an honor to have you out here and have you on the show.

It's a privilege and an honor to be able to sit and visit with you.

Well, it's about time, guys. If you like this episode, go to earthing.com and try this. And if you think this sounds totally crazy and I'm off my rocker, I totally respect your right to be wrong. I'll see you next time. See you next time. On the Human Upgrade podcast.