Heart Coherence Unveiled: A Journey with Rollin McCraty | 1094 | Dave Asprey

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly you're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today is an interview that I'm really, really looking forward to because it's with a guy who I first met, I want to say about 15 years ago, maybe even 20, back when I was running one of the early anti aging nonprofits, research education groups in Palo Alto. It's called the Silicon Valley Health Institute. And I did not know the things I know now about biohacking because I was learning longevity from people who were oftentimes three times my age. So in my 20s, and I had people who were 88 years old on the board of directors who were showing me how they were getting younger before it was supposed to be possible. And one of the guests who came in was Roland McCrady from the Heart Math Institute. And he talked about all this really cool math and science and measurable things that tied directly to what I thought was a little bit of bs, things like meditation back when no one would admit they meditated if they had a job because they would just think you were crazy. Now if you're saying, Dave, how the heck old are you guys on the calendar? I'm 50. On lab tests, I'm somewhere between 39 and maybe 24, depending on what numbers you like to believe. But the world has changed a lot. And part of the role of starting the biohacking movement and bringing this out there was to normalize meditation and consciousness as high performance human techniques. So personal development is part of what you do as a biohacker. It's just hard to do personal development if your hardware doesn't work. And Roland McCrady, today's guest, is one of the first guys who pointed out to me scientifically, hey, if you want to have the kind of life that you want, then you've got to look at the intersection between what's going on invisibly in your biology and in your nervous system and your conscious mind. And when you do that, it has an effect that's bigger than you might think, which because it actually affects other people. And it does it via signals that we don't consciously pick up but that we can measure. In other words, your effect on other people is real when you walk in the room, even if they don't even.

Know that you're there.

Roland, welcome to the show.

Thanks.

Dave, what'd you think of that intro?

I think, well, that was cool. I was trying to remember how long ago it was too, and it probably closer to 20.

Yeah, I think it was somewhere around the late 90s, wasn't it?

It was before you were famous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm still not sure if I'm famous, but I'm better known than I was before. I, I know some people are really famous and thank God I'm not one of those. I, I, There are people who literally can't travel because they're so famous and I don't want to be one of those, but I understand, but you know what I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I do know that when I was at Burning man last week, I was walking down, I'm not saying what I was or wasn't wearing at the time. Walking down the street one morning and someone's like, hey, is that you, Dave? And I'm going, yeah. And he says, thanks for cutting your hair. And I said, you're welcome. And I kept walking. So, yeah, I was spotted in the.

Wild, put it that way.

So I guess that means I'm famous right now. Roland Some of our listeners know what heart rate variability is and many of them may not. So I know we're not going to talk about heart rate variability as our topic. We're going to talk about things like emotions and cognitive processing and energetic systems and our effects on each other. But can you talk about how important heart rate variability is for measuring this stuff and where that comes from? Just kind of give us an overview.

Yeah, be happy to. Dave, Most trackers out there that people, you know, that, I mean, HRV's kind of transitioned out of the research world, which is huge in these days. I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of publications now on heart repurbility and the research and clinical kind of world. And of course, for those that aren't familiar with hrv, and I should probably back up a little bit from where I was, what I was about to say, first of all, just understand that our heart rate changes with each and every heartbeat. So what heart rate variability is, is measuring the time between each consecutive pair of heartbeats. And that time between beats is always changing. Now this is a complete revolution in a way because if you back 20, well, maybe 30 years, I got to remember how old I'm getting here. I should turn 70 next month. It used to be thought that a sign of good health was a steady heart rate. The heart was like a metrodome. We now know that is just utter nonsense. It's the opposite that in a healthy system our heart rate's always varying and we have more of this natural beat to beat variation when we're young and it gets less as we get older. In fact, it's one of the best measures of the aging process, how much of it we have, it's kind of crossed into the consumer world, the biohacking world, which of course you were a big player in. Of course, Dave. So a lot of things are out there of measuring how much of this variability do we have and so on, and that's great and it's important. However, there's a much deeper, from my perspective, level of what HRV indicates about what's going on inside of our body, rather than just kind of slow process in terms of how much. And that is what we call how coherent is the variability. And that reflects current state. Now that when we look a little bit deeper under the hood, what heart rate variability actually can measure and does reflect is the degree of synchronization of the activity in the activity of our higher brain systems and within our nervous system. And that's where it gets really interesting because that's something we can learn to rather quickly change and control to a certain degree. And I think it's for most people pretty self evident that it just makes sense to be in sync the activity in our brain and nervous system and the neural systems. Because when we're in sync, that's one of the main things that enhances or facilitates performance across a lot of different domains physically. I actually know of a few world records in sports that have been set after coherence training in athletes.

The idea of coherence training here is that all of us have a number of beats per minute, but the spacing of those beats can be totally different. You could have 60 beats in one second and then no beats for 59 seconds, you'd probably be dead in that case, not quite, but you'd still have 60 beats per minute.

Right.

So. And if it's one beat every second, which is what we imagine, then you're a stressed person and it's not working very well. But if the beats kind of move around within each second, then your nervous system is healthier. But there's a pattern to the way they move around. Mathematically that means you're coherent, right?

Yeah, it's the. Well, you know, maybe a simpler language when we're looking at the pattern is to think of our heart rhythm. See, if we didn't have this beat to beat change in heart rate, there'd be no heart rhythm. It would be like a metronome. So a rhythm is the change over time. And if you just look at somebody's heart. Most people are thinking of heart rate like you're talking about how many times heartbeat in a minute, you know, and if you look at most monitors, it looks like flat because it's averaged out. You know, you collect data for 30 seconds or a minute and then you put a dot and you, it kind of looks like this flat lining. Unless you exercise or do something and you see it kind of slowly change, that's not the reality. But when you plot this beat to beat change, that is our heart rhythm, which is always going up and down and up and down. And the amount of it we have really reflects the flexibility within our nervous system. In fact, when that variability gets lower and the range of that rhythm gets lower, that's well correlated with a lot of things we don't want to have in our life. Reduced mental flexibility, cognitive flexibility, emotional flexibility. We get stuck kind of in the same old patterns physiologically as well as mentally and emotionally.

That's the important thing. It's a physiological thing. It's inside your biology, but then you feel it emotionally. And for me, after your very first lecture back at that anti aging nonprofit group, I got one of the HeartMath devices and your research group is associated with HeartMath. And I started doing this training. It was really hard for me. It was a little game you play on your iPhone. You can still get it today. I helped to bring heart rate variability into the world of biohacking. I got you guys to present at the quantified self meetups years ago. And the reason I did that is because I became a certified heart math coach years ago and I would do this and all of a sudden like my, I could feel my physiology changing. It was helping me to relax and helping me to realize what it felt like when my body went into a fight ORF flight mode versus when I was in this, this newer state that I'd learned. And after I, I started coaching people on it. I remember this one engineer in Silicon Valley. Now, engineers, software developers are not known for being highly emotional people. They tend to be a little bit rational. I had Asperger's syndrome until I reprogrammed all that stuff. It's common in the field. So these are not the people who talk about or even really sense their emotions easily. And this guy, after eight weeks, he says, Dave, I did my 20 minutes of training every day the way you recommended, and I'm pretty sure I experienced bliss. And here like a programmer experienced bliss back then, programmers don't experience bliss. But we did. And things have shifted today. Actually, people who write code and engineers, it's now accepted to be curious about your consciousness, but not that long ago.

You couldn't do that.

So the idea that you could turn on bliss by training your heart rate variability and getting higher levels of coherence in your heart, it's really cool. So I wanted listeners to understand this idea. And you wake up in the morning, you can see how was your heart rate variability last night? Did you recover? Did you not? Most listeners have heard of that by now.

Yeah, that's the how much variability we're talking about.

But here's the question for you. Global Coherence Initiative. You've been studying how we affect each other just from our heart rate coherence. Tell me about that.

Okay, so that's really a cool story. I'm glad. I love interviews where we can go a little wider than just physiology and the heart, brain communication and all that. Dave. So if we dial back into the 90s, you know, when we were. We started obviously as a psychophysiology laboratory. That may not be obvious, but. And so we got onto the link between our, our inner world, what we're feeling, you know, whether, whether, even if we're an engineer and we think we don't have feelings, we do just maybe don't. Aren't aware of them as much as we should be. Exactly how important that is, because that's what drives the activity in our brain and nervous system is our emotions way more than our thoughts. Okay, let me say that to start off with. And we started understanding how the, the heart rhythms is the most reflective of our interstate. Then I won't get into the whole history of how we got onto this. It was sort of backwards in a way, if I'm really honest. But we were doing some research with water, actually, and the effect of consciousness. And I'll tell a little bit of the story. And we were putting electrodes in water and changing water structure and these two different various methods. And we found that water actually amplifies weak electromagnetic fields through some other experiments. And that led to the idea, well, wait a minute, we're water mostly, right in our bodies. Are we also amplifying weak electromagnetic fields that we receive and are we radiating them? We know when we put electrodes on the body, we're measuring current, electrical current. That's why it's called the electrocardiogram or the electroencephalograph, if we're measuring brain waves, but whenever you have a current flow, you create a magnetic field. And my previous career was a communication engineer. I used to work for Motorola, something I know a little bit about. So we got this wacky idea. Well, what can we measure our heartbeat in a glass of water sitting on a table in front of us without touching it? Yes, we could. That was the backwards way into it.

This is really important, guys. Roland just said that using advanced communications engineering tools, you can measure your heartbeat in a glass of water that's not touching you. That's kind of a world changing idea because if you think you can walk into a room and you don't have an effect on anything you're not touching, you're changing water. And that would also imply that you're changing anyone else who's made out of water.

Yeah, well, that was the next step. Right. And then so we got into using magnetometers, which you can put out. So to measure the magnetic component, which the electrodes don't see, you have to use a different instrument called a magnetometer. So you can stick the probe of a magnetometer, you know, if it's set up right, you can get quite a few feet away from the body and still detect the heartbeat. So then using almost the exact same techniques I would use back in my roller days, I'll just call it, which we use to decode or demodulate to look at the signal being modulated on a electromagnetic field that you carry information with just like our cell phones do every day. Right. Once you're carrying that information, long story short, we found that those magnetic fields are carrying information about our inner state, certainly our emotional state. So that proved, I won't say implies, because it certainly does that, that our especially our emotions much more, I'm sure we just haven't proven, we don't know how to decode all that yet. Doesn't stop at our scan. We are broadcasting that. And if those information patterns are being carried by these magnetic fields, we could put a probe out here, measure it, decode it. In today's world, we can tell with about 75% accuracy what somebody's feeling is by looking at the field. Okay, all right, so next step. All right, you already kind of alluded to this, Dave. We're big bags of water and we already had already found and from other research track that water amplifies, you know, biologically generated magnetic fields anyway, probably all of them. But the next step, and this was actually incredibly easy to do and I was shocked that nobody had ever done it before I did all those searches somebody hadn't done this right. Is our. The quality, I'll call it, of the Information in our fields, is that affecting others in measurable ways? Yes. That was not. Actually wasn't rocket science to figure that out. So that then really led to the understanding that there's always an energetic communication going on between people, at least when we're together in the same room in groups. Right, right. Or individuals. Usually. Not always, but usually on. Below the consciousness, the conscious awareness level, but still having profound effects on the quality of communication going on within a group or a dyad. Right. Or a couple.

So if I had a magnetometer and I was interviewing someone for a job interview, could I tell with 75% accuracy what they're feeling?

Yeah, but you don't. Here's the thing, you don't even made a magnetometer. That was the research.

Because you are one.

Yeah. And. All right, so then. And it took some time to sort all this out, you know, I was talking about those information patterns being carried by the field. Right. Well, they correlate. There's a direct mathematical relationship between the heart rate variability patterns, the rhythm patterns and those. The structure of that information being carried by the field.

Imagine we had a heart rate monitor and a magnetometer on all politicians all the time when they were doing public speeches.

Wouldn't that be fun?

We'd have no more politicians because they're always dying. Right. And we would know it.

Oh.

So this is kind of profound. If you're listening to this right now, you could be saying, that can't be true. Guys, I have known Roland for 20 years. I have been on the advisory board for the Heartmath Institute. And Roland is an actual, real engineer who does the deep math and the deep signals analysis. That's what Motorola was all about. This is real stuff. And he's been working on it for a long time. And the implications for human consciousness are profound. Because if you want to find out why your Buddhist meditation does this or why you sit in a room like I did at Kopan Monastery in Nepal, to learn meditation, and you have the guru or the teacher in the room and they're transmitting something, which is how they would describe it. Well, there is an invisible but existing signal that happens when you're around certain people. And part of the reason that I learned to do what I do to make biohacking into a global movement is I did a lot of work with HeartMath, and I learned how to. Because I used to be nervous on stage, especially when I was doing Silicon Valley, you know, keynote presentations, I was quite nervous. So I learned to. Before I would go on to do my Heart coherence meditations and to do the breathing. And I found that if I shifted myself into this state that I had a lot more audience interaction, that it worked better. And when I went on stage in front of 15,000 people on Tony Robbins main stage at UPW, I did the same thing I always do, which is I automatically now change my coherence so that I resonate for the crowd or more to the point, the audience resonates with me. And then what that feels like to people when you're with someone who has high levels of coherence and high amplitude, which are things that I have in my biology because I built them, them, is that it feels authentic. Because it is authentic. Because when your words match your transmissions exactly, then you're going, that is real. And when you get the person who walks on stage and their words are good, but their transmissions are not good, you feel dissonance and you, you just know something's wrong, right?

Yeah. And that same thing, you're absolutely right goes on in our day to day communications with people, our spouses, our teammates, people we work with. It's that dissonance that is one of the main factors in miscommunication and feeling untrusted and separate, separated. When all these things that go on that are pretty big cost factors in business. You'd ask Dave, if I may, about Global. The Global. What the hell does this have to do. I'm sorry about my language here. What the heck does this have to do with Global? Right. Well, okay, so we now we had already done this work back in the 90s showing that this communication's going on. And by the way, of course, tone of voice, the words we choose, body language, all that matters as well. Saying there's additional layer but sometimes matters even more that we're often unaware of. Then it became, I learned about some things that you would have thought I would have known from being a communication engineer, right. Professionally that I hadn't, I'd never learned and I think most people hadn't. And one here's this just blew me away. I got to share this when I learned this now. So we were talking about magnetic fields. Now let's take it to the global scale. So Earth, right? We have a, the Earth has a magnetic field. We all know that. We learned that back in probably grade school, right? You know, the North Pole, the South Pole, all this stuff, big magnetic field. Well, one of the things what I hadn't ever learned until I got into another route is that magnetic fields can be plucked. The field lines Right. If you remember the experiment, you dump the iron filings on the glass plate, you put the magnet under it and you know, it jumps around and shows you the shape of the field, whether it's a bar magnet or a horseshoe, whatever. But remember those iron filings line up in parallel lines. So with that really simple experiment, we're also visualizing magnetic field lines or flux lines if you want to be more specific. But here's the thing that's blow away. They act like guitar strings. You can pluck them and they vibrate.

And you can measure this and you can.

Oh, we measure it globally now. But I was well off into having to learn a new field about some of the geomagnetic stuff. And in fact there's a technical term for it at scale of Earth, they're called field line resonances. That's the term in the literature. It's been around long before I came along. So what's plucking the field lines of Earth is the solar wind, right? Earth is turning, the solar wind's rushing by plucking the magnetic field lines and they're vibrating. In fact, I've got a great image of this from NASA. You can actually visualize it if you don't believe it. Well, yeah, it is. Well, here's the wild thing. The primary resonant node or frequency of the Earth's magnetic field lines vibrating is in frequency language, 0.1 Hz. That's a cycle every 10 seconds in the time world, which I know you'll recognize because it's at exactly the same frequency as our heart rhythms when we're in that coherent state. Like huh, you know, I was more of a dot connector in this. And we got onto this because when we were. Basically what I'm trying to say here, Dave, is taking it from the living room, you know, or the workplace and the local energetic interactions to the global. Because it's through resonance principles that this is right. Back to Communication Engineering 101. It's when things are resonant with resonant frequencies, you transfer energy and information. I'm an old guy now, right? So I way remember when we had radios in our house or cars, you had to turn the knob to tune, right? You're changing the resonance of the receiver to the vibrating frequency of the field we can't see and boom, there's the radio station. Or you're saying we do the same thing in cell phones, right? You transfer the energy to information.

You know, Roland, one of the things that I learned running that non profit anti aging group when I first met you there is. You can learn a lot from your elders. So when you say you're an old guy, that's another way of saying you've probably accumulated some wisdom that you're sharing now. So I. I appreciate that. You remind me of one other guy that I met in Silicon Valley at the same time, maybe a little bit younger than you. He was the guy who wrote the first patent for 802.11 for what we now call Wi Fi. Right. The very first patent. And we sat down at Red Rock Coffee Shop in Mountain View, California, and he said, dave, I heard the stuff you're doing with HeartMath and the stuff you're doing with Anti Aging. I want to show you what I. Because I took my million dollars signal detection equipment for EMFs, not magnetic stuff you're doing, and I turned it around and I looked at my own body and look what I saw. And he shows me a picture of chakra points because I think there's data, diagnostic data in human biology. We're transmitting WI FI signals all the time.

I'm like, we are.

We just don't see it with our eyes. And so our smart brains filter that out of our reality. Our body's job is to filter out all the signals that we don't need to survive. And we might want these signals to thrive, but we don't need them to reproduce. And that's why Mother Nature doesn't show them to us. But guys like you, when you do the math and you do the hard research and the science, you're going, no, this is real and it's provable and it's repeatable and it's beautiful that you've done that.

Yeah. It's a way. It's bringing. It's almost invisible because that's the wrong word, but it's bringing what we don't. Are not. Are not consciously aware of.

Unseen.

Yeah, unseen. Into visual. To be able to understand and visualize it and see it. So the. Just to complete my thoughts, if I may, on that, Dave. You know, we published probably 20, 25 papers on the. The interconnectivity now between our own biology, our health, our wellness, our performance, and how in sync we are with the rhythms of. That we live in. See, we all live within the fields of the earth. You cannot escape it. And again, I think kind of intuitively, it just kind of common sense that to be in sync with the rhythms we live in, we already know that being in sync in our own rhythms is the key to Performing better, whether it's sports or mentally, cognitively, whatever. But being in sync with the rhythms of the earth is kind of the next level, if you will.

It's funny you mentioned 0.1 Hz. In other words, one cycle every 10 seconds. At 40 years of Zen, which is my neuroscience brain training company for entrepreneurs and people seeking deeper consciousness, we do train that. On the last two days, we train brain waves along that same cycle, which is a carrier frequency for just about all the other brain waves.

Default. I actually saw the default mode network frequency in the brain in EEG years before it was discovered in the bold signals and MRIs.

It's funny when you take someone who really understands signals analysis and my background, I was a network engineer, not a signals engineer. I'm more tcp, IP kind of stuff. But when you get someone who really knows electrical signaling and you turn that, that knowledge around on humans, you find we, we operate on those same principles of reality. And even the internal signaling between mitochondria follows the same algorithms we use in crypto. Like our, our systems are imminently hackable. You're just one of the first people to really sit down and say, let's apply modern signals analysis technologies to the body. And having done that for what, 30 years now, you've been doing this.

Yeah. Around that.

I think you're one of the leaders in the world at saying, well, how do we take the engineering hacking mindset and apply it to ourselves and see what's really going on in there? And what's going on in there is not chemical, although it is chemical. It's not just chemical. It's also magnetic and electrical and information and informational. And it has to be because if you just have a thinking mind and you know how systems work, it has to do that in order to achieve what we do.

I more and more have come to understand, if you will or believe that what we invent in terms of technology, nature has already done it.

Yeah.

And we're just discovering that. And there's so many examples of that. In fact, communications industry is one of those. The fact that we're broadcasting, it's the same thing. We just body nature invented it a long time ago. We're just kind of catching up to understand it.

We are. And it's kind of funny. Ray Kurzweil is going to come on the show, someone I've been a fan of for a long time. He's a very, very good author and he's famous for saying, we're going to upload ourselves the Internet and what I learned over the course of becoming a biohacker is that we're already uploaded the Internet, we just haven't figured out how to hack our own signal yet.

Yeah, well, that's. Okay, so that's. Thank you. Because that's really what I'm saying, that's what the Global Coherence Initiative is all about, is that we are way already connected to the. What I call global information field through resonance principles. The fact that our hearts are vibrating heart rhythms at the same as the resonant frequencies of the earth. And then there's also the Schumann frequencies, which are a lot of people make big deals about ebb and new age and all that, and a lot of misinformation and just utter nonsense circles through social media around all that. And I can say that let's go.

There, let's talk about Schumann resonance, reality versus nonsense. And then let's talk in detail about the global coherence project that you're working on.

Okay, well, Schumann resonances mechanism, what they are, they're magnetically, strength wise or power wise, they are many, several orders of magnitude smaller than the field line resonances.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. They're huge. Now, I can't help but say this. This is. It's at least interesting. Okay, so when we talk our physiology, we measure the heart signal, right? The electrocardiogram, which is a hundred times stronger than eeg, right? Electrically. So magnetically, that's also true. So now here's. That translates. You can stick your magnetic probe out here and back up from the body around three feet before you lose the sensitivity of the technology detecting it. The field keeps going. That's our sensory technology. That same device, same settings. It's about an inch for the brain.

It's hard to get a signal from the brain. You get electricity coming off the scalp, which is also hard. But the magnet, the magnetic strength of the brain is weak, but the magnetic strength of the heart is strong.

Right. Okay, but now isn't this interesting that at the earth scale, field line resonances, which are the same frequency as the heart rhythms, are the same ratio stronger than the Schumann resonances, which are the same frequency as our brain waves. Whoa.

So that's basically alpha, the border, all the brain waves.

I mean, so. Well, first. So let's. Okay. Schumann resonances, we won't spend a lot of time here because. Not that big of a mystery. They're called Schumann resonances because they're named after a German mathematician who mathematically predicted that these magnetic waves had to be traveling around the surface of the earth. So they got named after him when they were first experimentally measured, not that long ago, 1960, you know, it certainly wasn't in my lifetime, you know. And many of probably listening was the first measurement of these. So there's still a lot that's to be uncovered from my perspective. But these are magnetic rhythms or waves that are bouncing between the surface of the earth and the bottom of the. What's called the ionosphere. You can think of as a soap bubble plasma around the planet for state of matter and physics. And one of the qualities of this plasma is that it's like a mirror to lower frequency magnetic waves. This is why ham radio operators can bounce radio signals off the ionosphere and talk to people on the other side of the planet. So anyway, it's the dimensions of this cavity between the ionosphere and the earth that are completely control the frequency of the Schumann resonances. And there's eight of them. First one is 7.83 hertz. So when they were first experimentally measured back in late 1959, early 60 was the first ever measurement. It was immediately recognized. Wow, that's the same as our. That used to be thought of alpha rhythm. Then we. Things have changed a little bit. It's that right between alpha theta, that sweet right there of that 7.8 Hz. But there's eight Schumann resonances, not just one. And they all overlap with our brainwaves frequencies.

And the others are harmonics of that?

Well, sort of, yeah. You can think of them as harmonics, but they're not. It's not a simple just harmonic doubling relationship because of the different layers and so on. But basically. And okay, so the nonsense that we see all the time. But it seems like every two years the social media blows up. For the first time ever, we've measured 30 hertz. And the Schumann resonance consciousness is changing. No, we actually have a global network. I've got magnetometers now we built. It's called the Global Clearance monitoring system.

How many do you have now embedded around the world?

Oh, God. See, there's Saudi Arabia, Lithuania, Canada, Northern Canada here in California, South Africa, New Zealand. Six, right? Six or seven.

Okay, so. So guys, Roland and his team have gone around the planet and installed magnetometers at various locations that are constantly measuring the strength and size and shape of the field of the planet, the magnetic field, to get data that shows how it's changing us. And we're changing it.

Yeah, yeah, you got it.

Wow.

So that's part of the global coherence Initiative. That you asked me about. Now the global Coherence initiative has evolved over that is probably at least 15 years old now, which it now includes a lot of neat things. So there's the global magnetometer measuring system and. And we've done a number of studies that are really cool, by the way. I can't get into all of them now, where we measure people over long periods. The heart rate variability, probably the only studies in the world in one, for example, 24 hours a day, measuring the HRV of groups of people for months. Wow. So our. Because our HRV really reflects the activity in our nervous system. It's what it actually is telling us.

Do you mean that the state of the magnetic field of the planet affects our nervous system?

Of course it does.

How dare you say such a thing? Because that would justify things like astrology or people going crazy when there's a full moon. And everyone knows. Oh wait, people do go crazy when there's a full moon. Any hospital room knows this. Any police department knows this. So we are affected by our environment in invisible ways, right? And then we feel responsible for it and we are responsible for our actions. But they were influenced by our environment.

Well, well, but the point is that yes, we, we can be and often are influenced by certainly the magnetic environment we live in. But it could be the noise of the city or being in the forest here in the redwoods where I live are affecting us. That's kind of obvious. Well, it should be obvious, I feel. But the point is that we can learn to be in charge of ourselves where we don't have to get beat around or ride the kind of the waves, if you will, of that we can learn to maintain our own inner coherence, whatever that external environment might be doing.

That's called being resilient. In fact, a company called Bulletproof one time state of human performance, which is when you're unprogrammable by your environment because you are able to maintain your autonomy and independence even in the face of a dirty signal.

Yeah, yeah, right. And so like the Schumann resonances or the field line resonances can certainly get disturbed when say, like when earth gets hit with a solar flare. Our physiology does not like living in disturbed fields. And there are so many studies that show this.

So if. If a bad actor wanted to create a dirty field that created physiological stress in humans, what technology would you use to do that? Well, okay, so I think I know the answer, but.

Well, I would design something that is resonant with our physiological rhythms, first of.

All, like the electrical system no.

Okay. So I had the opportunity many years ago to meet now Ross, 80.

Okay.

Ross is a really famous guy in the bioelectromagnetic and bioelectromagnetic medicine world. World. Okay. And I, I was fortunate to get invited to some invitation only conferences. This is back in the early 90s as well in Switzerland. It was kind of the, the cream, if you will, of the, the research world and that, those, those things and Ross. So I got to meet Ross and he was already pretty my age back then. Right.

So he was a Karolinska Institute guy. Right.

He might have been associated. Okay. One of the, one of the many things that Ross did is he showed that because back then, you know, this idea, you know, we were kind of ancient in our thinking back then in a certain way, but he was, you know, the leader of that pack. You know, like the only, the only way the external field can affect biological tissues is through heat. Right.

We believed it. Right?

Yeah, it was crazy. But you know, in today's world, most people that's. We've way moved past that through because people like Ross, 80. Right. But one of the things he showed that I think is so important is that biological systems can certainly react to external fields in a nonlinear, profound ways. Nonlinear amplification effect, however, that we have biological, what he called biological windows. That those nonlinear only respond in very specific, what he called windows. The frequency has to be right, has to met, and so does the amplitude of that signal. And if they're out of that biological window, we really don't have much response to it. Well, guess what biological systems respond most to?

They love 2.4. Was it gigahertz or no megahertz? The wireless phones. 900 megahertz.

Okay, so means you brought that up. So in other words, what we're most sensitive to are the same frequencies and rhythms we generate.

Ah, there you go.

Which makes sense, right? If you're designing the ultimate system, you know, if you were.

We generate frequencies that we can also read that allow us to read other humans to see if we should trust them or kill them.

Yeah, right.

So let's make electronic devices that send.