How Neuroinflammation Disrupts Your Immune System – Gary Kaplan, D.O. – #889

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. And today, this episode is already full of lots of juvenile humor because, I don't know, maybe I had extra coffee today or something like that. It is with my friend Dr. Gary Kaplan, who focuses on chronic pain and integrative medicine. And he's a pioneer in the field, and he works with conventional strategies, like stuff that, you know, Big Pharma would sell to you. In fact, stuff that big Pharma would probably force you to do against your will, given how big Pharma's behaved most recently. But he also does alternative and functional strategies. So this is my favorite style of thinking, where you're, dare I say, curious and open. So you just look at the field, say, oh, I'm just going to pick what works, and I don't really care where it's from. I'm results driven. So is board certified, actually, in two and a half things. Family medicine, pain medicine, and medical acupuncture. Is medical acupuncture really a board certification?

Yes, as a matter of fact, it is.

Okay, triple. So it's not two and a half. I was like, is that. Is that considered a board? I believe in acupuncture. It works. Okay, good deal. Yeah, that was that. Well, pain medicine is a joke. We all know that that's just opioids. So we could just write that one off, right, Gary? This is called baiting a pain doctor. It's not a good idea.

I owe a great deal to the 1999 conference where it was decided with the white paper that we would be okay with treating chronic pain with benign pain syndrome. So non cancer pain syndrome with opioids. And Dave Haddock was there doing the presentation. And so one of the things that happened was I went home and was going back and forth with the opioids and seeing that my patients were seesawing back and forth between depression and anxiety disorders and chronic pain. And while we're giving them opioids, and I'm going, okay, this is bullshit. What's going on? And so I was blessed at being able to pull together a study group of a colleague from one of the head of outpatient schizophrenic unit, as a matter of fact, at nih, Jose Pood and Mike Lumpkin, who's a neurophysiologist over at Georgetown, and several other psychiatrists and other colleagues who we sat down and said, okay, what's going on? And what we Found out was going on as we went through the literature over several months, was that what evolved out was this inflammatory model of chronic pain, that pain was inflammation in the brain, and that opioids were not making it better. In fact, opioids were making it worse. And then out of that evolved an understanding of what was causing brains to be inflamed, what are the mechanisms. And out of that evolved a whole new understanding of how you get sick, why you stay sick, and how you can recover. And that led to my first book, which was Total recovery in talking about pain, depression, and fatigue, among other things, as being part of a inflamed brain. And at that point, so that's back in 2010, 2011. So our understanding was relatively primitive at that point, because that was the evolution of this understanding. And since then, we've gotten considerably more sophisticated. But the basis of it remains the same. Basically, you have an inflamed brain. Inflamed brains cause depression. Inflamed brains cause anxiety. Inflamed brains cause chronic fatigue syndrome. Inflamed brains cause chronic fibromyalgia. Inflamed brains cause the post treatment Lyme syndrome. Inflamed brains cause pans, pandas, these pediatric neuropsychiatric disorders. And so as we started reevaluating all of this stuff from a standpoint of neuroinflammation, we started to understand that there were basically multiple components to this. The first was certainly some level of genetics, the genetics beginning to evolve out. The second was epigenetics. So epigenetics, you know, well, this business of on top of. So this business of what environmental factors have contributed toward potentially damaging the immune system. Because look, 80% of people get Lyme disease, get doxy, recover, they're done. But 20% do not.

Well, let me ask you this. I mean, from an aging perspective, not just a pain perspective, neuroinflammation and immune activation, that's inappropriate. My gut says about 40% of aging is caused by inappropriate immune activation. And a lot of the dementia and Alzheimer's things, even in my book on it, it's tied to that inflammation. So if we treat the pain, are we reducing the inflammation or do we treat the inflammation to reduce the pain? If we treat the pain, are we reducing the inflammation or do we treat the inflammation to reduce the pain?

Treat the inflammation to reduce the pain. And I push your closer to 70%. Not. Not voting for aging.

Yes.

Wow. Okay. Absolutely. Positively. And I may be underestimating at that, because the more we look at These things, the more we're understanding how inflamed and how difficult we've. How much trouble we've had, measuring inflammation. And so one of the. So I see people who have been very sick for a very long time, and they come to me with pain, they come to me with chronic fatigue, they come to me with sleep disorders, brain fog, difficulty focus, concentration. Right. They're disabled. My crew is very, very sick.

One of the things I respect greatly about you, Gary, aside from your bad sense of humor, it's that it's a sad thing in the status thing.

There you go.

In the early days or early ish days of chronic fatigue. And guys, if you don't, you haven't heard my story. I had chronic fatigue syndrome, or fibromyalgia. I believe it's mostly caused by toxic mold. And there's a whole bunch of neuroinflammation involved in all this, but people didn't believe it, especially MDs. But in 2013, the US HHS Health and Human Services Secretary put you on the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Advisory committee. So you were an early doctor willing to raise your hand and say, these patients are not all bad people, malingerer, crazy people. They're actually sick and we need to do something. What made you know this was real before most of the people knew it was real?

So when you see one person with this problem, you're kind of going, eh. You see a second person with a very similar set of complaints, you're going, something there. You see a third person. And so it's a function of listening to and paying attention to people. And you're going, okay, we're missing something. Clearly, these people are sick. These people are disabled. These people are not malingering. And frankly, most of the time, they've been pretty damn beat up by the medical profession. My average patient has seen somewhere around 20 to 30 other physicians before I see them. And many of them have been told they're crazy. They've been told they've been dismissed. They've been. And in some cases, they've been out and out physically abused by docs who refused to believe that they were sick and performed procedures on them they had no business performing.

That was my story, aside from probably the physical abuse. But you could see they thought I was nuts. They thought I was trying to get drugs and all this stuff. Guys, do you not see? When I walked in the door, I'm like, I have a successful career. I'm working really hard here, and I feel like I've been poisoned. And they Go, maybe you should lose weight, maybe you should go F yourself, because you can't tell me how to do that. And I did everything and they looked at me like I was lying. But you didn't look at your patients like they were lying. So what makes you different than a normal. I don't say normal doctor because so many doctors listen to the show and they actually are working to listen. But I certainly had the experience multiple like at least a dozen times of people saying, there's nothing wrong with you except for you.

So I think one of the things was this understanding of neuroinflammation, which I had very early on. I also understood about mold toxicity. I worked with Richie shoemaker back in 2000, shortly after he wrote his book Mold Warriors. And so I had a lot. And then the other thing is acupuncture, quite honestly, because in acupuncture we talk about root causes too often. What we do in medicine is we name the symptom and we decide it's the disease without understanding, with the passive physiology, if you'll excuse the expression, but basically understanding the mechanism via which the disease is occurring. And so at the point that we started understanding, we were looking at inflammation in the nervous system that caused us to turn around and start asking a whole different set of questions about what was wrong with these people, how they got to be the way they were. My intakes grew from a half hour to 45 minutes to now it takes me two hours to do an intake on a patient because I need to get the totality of what's going on with them to understand how they got to where got into my office, why they're here. And that history includes child abuse.

There's quite often, surprisingly, for bodily pain and inflammation, whether it's emotional or physical or sexual, a background of abuse predisposes you to inflammation or birth trauma even will do it, which was part of my story.

Absolutely, positively. And the problem is when you hear the story of child abuse, frequently the docs immediately shunt to go to the psychiatrist, right? And the psychiatrist I've got. So let me. I'll give you two things. First, one is child abuse, child neglect, unquestionably set you up for a broken immune system, it sets you an autoimmune disease, it sets you up for heart disease, it sets you up for obesity, it sets you up for early Alzheimer's, it sets you up for a whole range of very real, very serious and sometimes life threatening diseases. So child abuse and child neglect needs to be factored into our healing process as we help people recover. Child abuse also is not infrequently in environments in which there is deprivation. Food exposure to mold because of poor.

Living conditions, maybe exposure to other human beings and smiles. Could that be a form of deprivation? Oops. Maybe we're making some mistakes in our society today. People.

Listen. Human touch is, you know, I've got two patients who come in to see me who basically need hugs when they walk in the office. They just need. And I hug almost all my patients because it waters you, it nurtures you. Human touch is important, appropriate human touch. But human touch and being in a loving environment is absolutely crucial for our growth, our development, our proper maturation. So that has to be a factor in everything that we do. The other thing is being sick. Having your life disappear when you're 20 years old or 16 years old because you got sick and now you're disabled and you're out of school and people are telling you you're crazy. There's an abuse by the medical system that occurs as well. And we have to be attentive. So prime case. A young woman I just started seeing. She's about 17 years old. Since age 10, she develops obsessive compulsive disorder. She develops severe depression. She develops cutting behavior. She's hospitalized psychiatrically. Okay, so what do you think that does to the self esteem to a young woman that she's been told pretty much most of her life that she's crazy and treated as such by the psychiatrist and nothing is working. Well, we took a look at her from a neuroinflammatory standpoint and what was the matter with her? She has Lyme disease. Not subtly Lyme disease. She has full CDC criteria. Lyme disease. That's been missed.

Had that too.

And she has antibodies in the central nervous system, so she has, if you'll excuse the expression again, autoimmune encephalopathy of infectious etiology. This is a situation where the body's immune system is attacking the brain as a result of an over responding to an infection.

These are myelin antibodies specifically to the lining of the nose.

They can be. So they're specifically. We look at the Cunningham panel, it's not so much the myelin, because myelin is going to give you a different presentation, but it will be to the receptors, dopamine receptors in particular. And so we're looking at specific receptors in the brain. Cunningham panel is what we utilize to determine damage that's been done specifically, interestingly enough, in the limbic system. So that gives you Issues with focus, concentration. It gives you adhd, that gives you obsessive compulsive disorder, that gives you depression, that gives you generalized anxiety disorders, sleep disturbances, behavioral problems.

So does this explain half of the, the behavior of kids in school? I know that that stuff explains what was going on with me. I mean, yeah, I was a high, high scoring student, top of my class in high school kind of thing, but they wouldn't let me be top of the class because I was such a dick. So they made me be number two because I was such a bad person from their perspective. But you know, the behavior. I did have ocd, right? And I had certainly all sorts of autoimmune conditions. I had lots of toxic moles, probably active Lyme disease, bartonella, all the stuff you see in your chronic patients. Part of the reasons I do biohacking and bulletproof is say, look, if I can come back from all the crap that I dealt with, I'm the hardest. Like, I'm your worst patient, except I pulled it off. And so I want people who see that to go, oh, there is hope. And then I also want people who didn't have that to go, well, if you can do that, what's the next level I can get to? Because I don't do anything. Do you ever see patients who are totally healthy or like, I just want to kick ass? Or are you like all about, you know, you're the walking dead zombieland, like I was.

I have a small percentage of patients who want to kick ass. And the interesting thing is what we've learned from the patients who are really, really sick is how to really optimize your performance to get really, really. And the interesting thing is what we've learned from the patients who are really, really sick is how to really optimize your performance to get really, really healthy. The percentage of people in my practice who are really, really sick kind of overwhelm my ability and time to take care of that other. We have other docs in the practice who, who work on essentially longevity and super health. So that's part of the practice. And it's come out of what we've learned from taking care of these really, really sick people and how we can back up. Remember that. Remember that condo in Florida that collapsed within the last year? Okay, so you've got people building these million dollar, multimillion dollar penthouses in this thing which has a rotten basement. And the whole thing collapsed.

I heard it collapsed because all the people in Florida thought masks were bullshit, so they were just throwing them away. And it clogged up the sewage there. And that. That was part of the problem.

No, no, no, no. That was part of Florida.

Florida has so much freedom that they just couldn't stand it there. I don't know.

They had so much freedom that they didn't feel any need to enforce building inspection codes. Exactly that for four.

And the mafia was probably involved.

Four years was saying, you know, this place is going. Yes, it did.

And by mafia, just to be really clear, I was not talking about the FDA or cdc. I was talking about the real mafia, just in case there was any government of Florida.

So this is what we have to be careful of, right? We have to be careful of building these magnificent exteriors when in fact, underlying is this horrible inflammatory process that's eating away at us. So do we have mold toxins? Do we have old, unresolved emotional issues that need to be addressed as part of our healing? Do we have problems with exposure to glyphosates? Roundup.

What percentage of your patients don't have old emotional problems?

Oh, I would say about 45, 50.

Have no emotional problems affecting the health of them.

No, they have emotional problems but have been induced by virtue of the illness and the way they've been treated in the medical profession. That's 100%.

Oh, so. So there's the. The MTSD, medical induced trauma. So. And it's true.

Absolutely.

Guys, I kind of feel ashamed to admit this, but I was so pissed. I hated doctors. I mistrusted them. I saw them as the enemy. After the guy in Palo Alto told me vitamin C would kill me and didn't believe anything I said. And I'm like, fuck these guys. They don't know what they're talking about. I will go do this myself. And I spent four hours a night until I fell asleep at my desk studying biology, cellular health and everything. And when I finally went to a doctor, I walked in. I guess I'm in California, you can't bring a handgun with me, but I'm going to go in anyway. And I was like, I have one of these seven conditions and I want this lab from this place. And if that's the case, here's my treatment plan. And to her credit, her name was Dr. Christine. She said, well, Dave, I believe you. And I'm like, what? She believed me. This has never happened before. I didn't know they made doctors like that. And she said, can I at least order your list for you? And I said, yes. And she said, oh, you have Lyme disease. And it turns out I Had toxic mold, which was number two on the list that induced Lyme. But hey, I'm going to give her lots of credit. So, Christine Green, if you're listening, hey, thank you. But there are trustworthy doctors. So if you're stuck, you're listening to this, you're stuck in that. Doctors are a bunch of jerks. No, they're actually more like Gary than you'd ever believe. You just have to find the ones who are allowed to have enough time with you.

Right.

So that's my PSA for the day. Keep going.

But I think your, your point is extremely important in terms of time because what's happened is the medical profession has been taken over by the insurance company. And so docs are being forced to work to the insurance company dictates, which is about a seven, eight minute visit. You cannot do this medicine in seven, eight minutes. You have to have time to respectfully listen to the story. You have to get clear on what's going on in all aspects of their lives. And you're not allowed to super focus on just the cough and not pay attention to the sleep disturbances and the brain fog and the digestive issues and everything else going on with the person because the fact they're all interrelated and we have to look at this as one organism all having these different symptoms. That's okay. But then what's the unifying factor? For most of our patients, the unifying factor is inflammation in the central nervous system. Then how did they get there? Then we start the investigation walking through it. The reason most people are sick and have normal labs is because we haven't done the right labs yet.

Thank you.

Okay. That we're going to cut that out.

And make a little Instagram thing for that. It's totally true. They say there's nothing wrong with you. It's because you didn't look hard enough.

Right. And you were smart enough to actually do the research. And Dave, just between us, you are the single smartest non doc I know in the medical area. You do your research. No, no. You're very careful. You do your research. I love your books. I've learned from your books. And you've really been very thoughtful and careful about the message you put out and extremely systematic in the way you go about organizing your thinking and getting this out to the public. It's been a huge public service. And do more. Do more. Because truly, Dave, I mean, what you do is extremely important.

Well, I appreciate it. And I'm also grateful for a difference between us. I don't Have a license you can take away for speaking the truth. And I've had so many doctors say that. I've said it on stage at the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine. Actually, they're meeting today. You and I couldn't make it there, obviously, but in fact I met my wife there years ago. So it's one of those things where especially now more than ever before, doctors are actually being handcuffed or threatened with blackmail by their licenses. If you talk about this certain horse medication that the WHO used on 4 billion people or approved for use, but we can't talk about that. If you're a doctor, I can talk about it. They just have Shadow banned my account. I can. I can show a video to a quarter million people and a thousand new people get to see it versus before it would have been 25 or 50,000. So the fact that I'm speaking about this, I still get punished, but I don't get punished by losing my livelihood the way they will for doctors. So you're even just doing early stage chronic fatigue, early stage neuroimplant, talking about child trauma. All of those are risks you take to help patients. Right. So I want to honor that for you as well. And I'll keep doing it, but I can't do it if masters like you tell me all the good stuff, even if it's off camera. So I'll repeat it.

Let's step aside for a second, if we can, if you're willing to. I want to talk about this conference I've organized and why I've organized it. Okay?

Absolutely.

We have put together a faculty that is some of the literally best and brightest in the world. And they're not talking fringe docs. I'm talking physicians from Oxford, I'm talking physicians from Israel, from Germany, all top institutes, all highly regarded in their professions. From Columbia, from Yale, from Stanford. And I'll be biased. Georgetown as well, but also from Duke.

Is it on the list of top schools still? I thought it dropped.

Don't give me that.

Sorry, I couldn't.

We went down a notch, but we're still up there.

All my other Georgetown friends. That was just joking up.

No, it's painful, but what we've done is. So there are several things I wanted to do. So one was I brought together geneticist epigeneticists. Schoenfeld is the Yohada Schoenfelden, it from Israel, is the leading epigeneticist on autoimmune diseases in the world. And I've got people who are expert Colombia Dendro is, runs her own name lab at Oxford, reasonably prestigious place on autoimmune diseases. And we've got Ocha Rapara on the gut microbiome. And what we've done is we've brought together these really top docs and researchers from around the world so that we could present a conference to tell the rest of the profession that a all of these conditions are real. Chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic pain syndromes and redefine them from their symptoms into the pathophysiology, the causes, which is neuroinflammation, and then talk about how to go about treating them. So it's a very high level medical conference. Yeah.

Is autism on that list as well?

I don't know enough about autism. I think it is and I think what happens in autism is early on there's a disruption of the gut microbiome. I've seen studies and cases who have repaired that, but it doesn't hold. So there's a heavier genetic factor in there. But autism's on the rise. I'm not an expert in that area.

At end of the day, after having had Asperger's syndrome and doing a lot of work in this space, it is clearly a neuroimmune condition and a neuroinflammatory condition and there is no one cause of neuroinflammation as you well know. So I would put it on the list. It's just earlier, whether it's in the utero or after, and whether there's genetic risk factors. There are for every one of these conditions that are tied to having infection, getting an inappropriate immune response to the infection that then causes long term symptoms.

So when we go through this list of people, we're talking about about 20 million people just in the U.S. not worldwide. Okay, just in the U.S. and they're not being treated properly, they're being told they're crazy when in fact they're sick. And so what I wanted to do was first stop was get the profession's attention with a really high level conference. We're going to have this proceedings published in one of the immunology journals. And so we're going to create an opportunity for docs to understand what the pathophysiology of this disease is, what the cause of this disease is, how to go about a pathway to how I'll go about treating it. And so our patients will be able to have this information. And we want civilians, if you will, non docs at this conference. It's a virtual conference you can attend it from home. This is about backing you up. This is about helping you understand, yes, you're really sick. Yes, we now understand why you're really sick. Everything. No, but we're getting there. And now you can go to your own doctor and say, by the way, here's this information. So we want to take the sense of helplessness and hopelessness out of the docs when these patients come to them because they don't know what to do with them and say, here's a path, here's an understanding of this by some of the best and brightest docs in the world. So that's one powerful. The first thing we want to accomplish with this thing.

What's the name of the conference and is it open to lay people or is this a doctor's only kind of.

No, no, we want as many lay people at this conference as possible. Because what we're doing, in addition to having all of these top docs peppered throughout the conference, is going to be stories of patients told by themselves about what they've gone through in order to get find a healing path for themselves. Because we want to constantly be connecting the academic to the clinical. We want to be connected to the patients who are struggling with these conditions. So the conference has the really ugly title of autoimmune encephalopathy secondary to infectious disease. A new perspective on the pathogenic interactions of the immune system, infections, stress and chronic disease.

This is why doctors should never do marketing. Ever, ever, ever say that again.

So, but the website that you can go and register on is hopehealingknowledge.com we'll keep that simple.

And guys, this is if you, it's in February, but if you do it before sometime in mid January, it's like $69. So this isn't, you know, it isn't a highly expensive thing. It's a four day, lots of, lots of knowledge. Everyone listening to this doesn't have one of these weird, I don't know what the heck's wrong with me, but a meaningful number of us do. And a meaningful number of people who think there's nothing going on because, oh, it's normal for things to hurt all the time. Like, I thought it was supposed to hurt to walk until I was 24. I'm like, oh, wow, you could walk without hurting. I had no idea. Literally, I had no idea. Like, I was a competitive athlete and I had no idea because pain's a part of it. And I don't generally experience pain anymore because I deal with Inflammation and neuroinflammation. Now magically my brain works. So I think this is worth your time. If you're interested in performing better or if you have, if you know that something's wrong or if you think something's wrong, this is cool because it's real, it's not fake. And this your idea of renaming these symptom based diagnoses with cause based diagnoses is really, really important because it'll, it'll let doctors who don't have time to do what you've done in your career to go really deep and be triple board certified and to look at the hard cases they're getting five minutes a patient because that's what the insurance companies have mandated. And by the way, mandates are evil from anyone anywhere. We'll just have to say that. But anyway, they, they have gone and they don't have time to do it. So if it's not in the dsm, if it's not a standard diagnosis, it doesn't, they can't treat it. But you will change the field of medicine with this conference if you do it right and you're going to help a lot of people who are sick. So there you go. It's happens in mid February, February 9th. And Hope Healing Knowledge, HopeHealingKnowledge.com is the.

Website where you can go and register. Now the other thing that happens with this conference, we know because we're doing this at a very high academic level, this will, I think this will, there's plenty of it that will be accessible to the public and make sense to them. But what we're going to do is three weeks later, for those who attend this conference, we're having a second conference for which there's no charge. That's part of this package where There'll be a two hour Q& A. Bring it down to earth, bring it down to practical matters. How do you specifically employ this information we just worked out at this high level? And for you, how is it exactly relevant to you? How do you move forward in terms of your own healing path based on what just came out of this conference? Now there's a second thing coming out of this conference we hadn't anticipated because we're also looking at post Covid and we actually are appreciative of post Covid.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

We're also looking at post Covid and we actually are appreciative of post.

I was hoping we're going to get to go there. On this. And when you say post Covid, I'm pretty sure that when it comes out, it's going to go post. And we'll just put a bleep over that each time because if anyone talks about this online, other than it's getting shut down, but everyone will know what you're talking about.

So these are people who continue to have symptoms, some of them fairly disabling, at least a month or later after they've had a case of co. All right. CDC has this on their website. This is not magic.

It's real.

It's real. Yeah, it's real. But the beauty of this thing, and what I had hoped the silver lining would be in this whole situation is that it would advance the fields of immunology and virology about a decade. And it's done that. Yeah. And very cool things have now happened. So one of the things that's going to happen at this conference is we're going to have Bruce Patterson speaking. We have opened a post BLEEP clinic where.

I think you're allowed to say.

Covid because it's a real.

You might get less listeners. So I'm just going to say long bleep, long haul.

Covid. Post Covid syndrome. Yeah, but. So Bruce has identified a piece of the immune system that's been broken as a result of the infection. And now what we're doing is we're looking at cytokine panel. Now, what's a cytokine? Cytokines are small molecules that come out of the inflammatory cells that turn on and off inflammatory processes. They're the ones that actually govern inflammation and quieting of inflammation and growth.

I'm laughing because two weeks into I wrote a big detailed blog post about everything you can do to reduce interleukin 6 or IL6, which is the primary inflammatory molecule. It's not the only one, but the primary one in bleep.

Right.

And I received a letter from the government to take it down, so I did.

Well, there's a substantial literature that backs you up in the medical literature. Peer reviewed, I cited.

It's ridiculous. But cytokines are at the key for all inflammation and people have long beep. They actually get. They actually have cytokines that stay elevated. Right. And you know which cytokines are elevated with. And so the IL6 is a famous one.

Oh, good Lord.

TNF Alpha. What are the other ones that are high?

One of the big ones.

Which one?

TNF alpha. Tissue Crossing Tactical Alpha is also one of the major stays of this thing. But interleukin 13. Oh, God. You want the list? The list goes. Interleukin 6, chemokine factor, L3, chemokine factor, L5, rantes GM, CSF, there's a whole series of letters and numbers. Interleukin 8, VEGF, base endothelial growth factor.

Which is tied to mold in a big way, which is why I know about that in IL6. Right.

Interleukin 10 and chemokine 4. 4, interleukin 2. So there's a whole bunch of these factors. And what's particularly interesting is that we have figured out certain medications that we can use to target to modulate these things. And more importantly is we're seeing people get better and we're seeing them recover not in a year's time, but in a matter of weeks to a month.

Now, I'm going to say something that's probably irritating to you.

Okay? Okay.

Now if you were to replay this or look at the transcript of that list or look at the literature that's available and you cannot use Google anymore to do this because Google will not give you medical information that's useful. They have stopped being useful as a search engine. I cannot write my books using them anymore. So I use a search engine called DuckDuckGo. But there are others and I think doctors need to hear that, especially because frankly, you guys can all go to Medline and whatever, the dumbest, the dumbed down stuff, it's not useful for you. But of course, PubMed anyway, you can go there and you can search natural compounds that will reduce these things and you can talk about them. One of my favorite compounds, one you probably know about, is Andrographis, which is an herb that, funny enough, a 20% reduction in all lung infections for people who take it and a 20% reduction in the duration and severity of their symptoms. Now, I don't care what the lung infection is. I'm going to take that stuff when I travel and I have for years because it's inconvenient to get a cold, right? It's not. So but talking about that in the context of bleep, you just don't do that anymore. But that's something I take regularly. So there's a whole bunch of other things. So if you get a test from Gary or from any of the people who are going to be at the Hope Healing Knowledge Summit, they're going to tell you what these are and you can find out what compounds pharmaceutical and non pharmaceutical could lower. The ones you have that are high and Then you could probably have a reduction in symptoms. Better yet, get a lab test, see a doctor, work with a doctor. Maybe you don't have the doctor, you don't have the money. You have a right to say, I'm going to try this $12 herb because it might work and the side effects are unlikely to be a big deal. That's the biohacker. Street smart. I don't have the money way of approaching this. And if you have the money, you get the lab and then you treat it with a doctor. And if you only have some money, you get the lab and then you treat it yourself. And you have a right to do that. A fundamental human right that no government can take away.

Hear, hear. No, no, you're absolutely correct. And by the way, one of the medications we use is aspirin.

Thank you for saying that. Yes, aspirin is ridiculously good at mast cell regulation. Right?

We're good for mast cell regulation, but it's also good at specific cytokine regulation. So 81 milligrams enteracotid.

Oh, so you like the child's dose, not the full 340.

We don't need it. We can accomplish the same thing. So less is more.

Now, I have to ask you a question. You're going to know this because you've been in practice for so long and I think you have way more information than I do. There's a whole body of knowledge that says, okay, aspirin is probably good for you in low dose. There's also a body of knowledge that says it probably contributes to macular degeneration if you take it for long periods of time and there's GI bleeding. So the standard of care is to take Pepcid, AC or a similar H2 blocker with aspirin to stop the bleeding of the stomach.

That'll do for the stomach, but it won't do for the rest of the intestinal tract. The problem with non steroidal anti inflammatory meds, of which aspirin is one, is we focus on the stomach in terms of bleeding. But the reality of the matter is it causes ulceration in 75% of people who take it chronically in the large intestine and the small intestine. So your gut microbiome, your gut blood barrier is severely disrupted with chronic use of these things. So we do have to be attentive to this stuff. I mean, and we want to be specific about who's using it, how long they're using it. But taking Pepcid is only going to protect your stomach, it will not protect the rest of the gastrointestinal tract, of which there's.

So what do we do?

28Ft.

How do you balance it out?

Individualize. Individualize. So if you have proper testing, if.

You have lung, you're willing to get leaky gut, maybe to get rid of it, or do you take some other supplements with the aspirin, like slippery elm or something?

So I think basically you got to balance the whole thing. Right. So I think consistently taking probiotics is a very spiffy idea. And so taking those to begin with, I think that otherwise DGL can help protect the gut. Deglycerinated licorice.

Yeah, that's a really good idea.

We need to be deglycerinated, not straight licorice, because straight licorice has this tendency to raise your blood pressure. So unless you happen to have pots, we don't want to do that. So good.

I have pots, and I like dgl, so I'll take regular DG licorice.

It's a bit bitter, but nevertheless. And the stuff we buy as licorice isn't.

It's full of gluten and sugar and flavorings, and it's not.

Have got. And it's not to have any licorice in it. So, yeah, so you gotta buy real licorice, which is hard to come by in the States because it's regulated because of its risk for raising blood pressure.

Which some portion of people actually need. So they don't get dementia.

Absolutely correct.

That goes back to the Viagra dementia study from two days ago, where taking Viagra has a 69% decrease in symptoms of dementia because of blood flow. Right. So there's that reason to raise it. Maybe the regulator should back off and let us make decisions with our doctors. Just saying.

Just a thought. Just a thought. So we're trying to put this whole thing together to get people to understand that there's real they're really sick, not kind of sick, they're really sick, why they're sick, let their doctors understand this, and then how to get better, and then put it in their hands. Now, the next stage, because you asked a very interesting question, which is how many people have this? So what we want to do, and we've had this conversation with Brett when we were together in San Diego, the next stage is I want to do a study looking at the juvenile detention system and kids who've been hospitalized psychiatrically. And I want to know what percentage of these kids are really sick, what percentage of them have neuroinflammatory disease and actually define that population. My bet, from the literature that I've seen, it's gonna be every bit of 25%, if not higher. So we've got a bunch of kids that we are another example. I had a kid come to me who was suicidal, who not responding to any of the antidepressant medications. He tried to hang himself. Really a complete mess. No gastrointestinal problems. But because I'm looking for a neuroinflammatory process, I do a neuroinflammatory workup, which includes looking for celiac disease, of which 5% of cases will present with only neuropsychiatric symptoms. Depression, anxiety disorders. Wow. Concentration. He had full blown celiac.

Full blown and didn't know it because he wasn't farting.

Exactly correct. Exactly correct. We took him off all gluten. We had to do some other gut repair stuff. Over the course of a year, off all antidepressants. Depression is completely resolved. I still see him as a patient. We're five years later. It just comes in for checkups. He's 100%. No return of depression, nothing. So this failure to look at these causes of inflammation in the brain is causing a lot of people to remain very sick, to be labeled psychiatrically ill when they're not, and to become disabled when they don't need to be. We have to do better. We can do better.

We can indeed. So we all know now we're familiar with long Covid. There's another condition that I'm going to term. I just made it up. Long strep.

Yep.

Do you know which one I'm talking about? Pandas. Can you talk about what pandas is?

So pandas is a case where kids get sick and officially defined as before the age of 13, but in fact, it occurs after that. And what happens is they get a strep infection. They frequently don't get a strep infection. They get multiple strep infections throughout the point. And there's one point at which they develop psychiatric symptoms. Obsessive compulsive disorders, really bizarre behavioral pseudo seizures. And they're called pseudo seizures because if you put them in, they look like a seizure. Except if you put them in a lab and you do studies, EEG studies, they're completely normal. But these kids run away, they scream, they. I had one kid do about $10,000 worth of damage to the house. He would have these events and he would break the windows. He would put his fist through a plate glass window. Not an easy thing to accomplish without breaking his hand. And what happens is they. And they go into these, like, fugue states. They're essentially a type of seizure activity with behavioral responses. And they come out of them, and they are sweet and lovely and great kids, but they are. They do have these events, and it scares the bejesus out of the parents and the kid, and nobody knows what to do with them. And when we look at these kids, they've got chronic strep. Their ASOT titeries are extremely elevated. And so we have. And they've got antibodies to their brain as a result of this chronic strep. This is the cutting impact because the.

Strep presents a protein that looks like the brain. So eventually the body's like, I always have this damned invasive infection. Let's make antibodies to it.

This is molecular and pseudo. By the way, who defined this condition is one of our speakers.

Okay, I am so excited about. About this conference because I would love to hear that. I had chronic strep as a kid. I had it every month for 15 years. I would take antibiotics and I had OCD and some behavioral stuff. I didn't have all of the symptoms you talked about. No one's ever diagnosed me with pandas, but I've often thought I had some of this stuff going on because how could you not after that much strep throat and a history of autoimmunity and one of the fugue state things. And you put me underneath fluorescent lights or bright LEDs. To this day, I can look at it. There's an EEG response, and it's not a seizure, but it's disordered whole brain theta activity. Where I come out, people think I was awake, but I sure don't feel like I was awake. And I've learned to manage all that stuff. It's all manageable, but it's a pain in the ass and I wish it'd be gone. My question for you there is, do you see in the next five years, 10 years, 20 years? Just in what time frame? When are we going to know how to go in and turn off stupid immune activation like this? Like, I want to flip those switches back.

I think we can turn them off in a high percentage of people now, and I think we'll be able to turn them off in pretty much everybody in the next five years.

All right, see, this is what I like to hear. So I'm talking beyond just generalized, you know, anti histamines like Claritin does amazing work for.

For a long.

I mean, like, just flip the switch. So if I'm exposed to whatever that molecule is, my immune system stops targeting my brain. My immune system doesn't care if I get strep. It just fights the strep and doesn't punch me back in the face.

Now, there's an interesting secondary problem with a lot of these kids that's been missed. The reason you get all these strep infections is because a piece of your immune system isn't present, specifically subclasses of igg. So we label pieces of the immune system A, G, M, E. Okay, so ige, igm, igg, and there are four subclasses of igg. And typically there's a dropout of one of the classes of igg. And that's why you're susceptible to all these infections, because the body can't mount a proper response to it. And we can fix that by restoring the IgG content with IVIG intravenous immunoglobulins. So that's one way to fix the number of these kids and adults. As a matter of fact, adults present differently, but they present essentially with the same problems as the kids. Their brains are inflamed.

One of the big reasons that I did Moldy, the documentary, it's moldymovie.com, guys. If you haven't seen it, it's free, it's an hour. It's worth every minute of your time to watch it.

And I will second that.

Oh, thank you. It's because the number one cause of strep throat in kids is environmental toxic mold. You go into a moldy, the bacteria in your throat say, oh, look, here's an antibiotic in the air. I'm under threat. Let me form a biofilm and become more aggressive. And then you get more of the toxins that it makes. And then if you are unfortunate enough to have this kind of immune system, oh, look, there are autoimmunity to your brain. And then you start punching plate glass windows. Or maybe other kids, as the case may be, possibly in my kid. So they punch me first. That's all I'm saying. So we can avoid all this crap. Number one, let's have cleaner structures. Number two, let's have the ability when people get sick, to address the autoimmune things. And this leads. It's a long way of leading to my question about long bleep. I have suggested to multiple people who called me and said, hey, Dave, I got this thing. I'm not feeling great. It's not the end of the world. What would you do if you had it? And by the way, this is what I did when I did have. As I said, you know, I think I want less immune activation, like the, the overarching inflammatory stuff. I am going to take H1 and H2 histamine blockers during and for six weeks after having, because it reduces mast cell activation. I'm less likely to have long term immune effects from this because I want to reduce my incidence of that and I want to feel better. So in other words, that's Claritin and Pepcid. Good strategy, bad strategy.

I think it's a perfectly good strategy, I think. So you have to back up and the question you have to ask is what causes inflammation? Right? So if you've got itchy eyes and a runny nose, secondary allergies, all right, that's because allergens are being attacked by ige typically, and you're getting histamine release and mast cells. So what you want to do is stabilize the mast cells and you can do that with antihistamines or you can do immunotherapy, which teaches your body to stop paying so much attention to the. This stuff. Quit being such a delicate flower. The other thing though is if you skin your knee and that gets infected, okay. And it's all red and angry, treating that with an antihistamine is going to work because the mediator of inflammation there is bacteria. So you need an antibiotic to treat that. And look at.

Because of lipopolysaccharide instead of from. Exactly correct.

In the brain, the inflammation can be mast cells, the inflammation can be microglia. Okay. The inflammation is astrocytes, and the inflammation can be from the acquired immune system. And then there is this whole gut microbiome communication, which is literally our second brain and about 70% of our immune system. And so that has to factor in to what we're doing as well. And so we've got to be attentive to that. There are subspecies of Clostridia which can overgrow, not cause diarrhea, but sure as hell screw your brain. So they produce substances like HBHPA and for chrysol. And so we have to be, again, if we don't test for it, we don't look for it, we don't find it. And so you have to look at putting together an entire picture in order to help somebody fully recover. And so everything we can do is look at, okay, why, what's causing the inflammation. So low dose naltrexone, excellent drug in order to treat Hyperreactive microglia. CBD actually quiets down microglia so can be effective in terms of reducing inflammation.

In the brain for some people, but not all for different strains of cbd. Right. Just want to be really clear, that's still a little bit of fuzz around the edges. So one brand may work for you and it might not work for your friend and vice versa.

That's exactly correct. And that drives me a bit crazy because I can't. There's no standard and I can simply tell you this mixture in order to help somebody fully recover. And so everything we can do makes sense. And it varies so much from state to state.

It does.

So is look at. Okay, why? What's causing the inflammation? So low dose naltrexone, excellent drug in order to treat hyperreactive microglia. CBD actually quiets down microgliation so can be. So there's lots of things which will quiet down that whole process. Chromoly and sodium. In terms of mast cell stabilization, some can be ketotifen, which is an antihistamine, which is both an antihistamine and a mast cell stabilizer. And the interaction between the microglia and the mast cells is extremely important. And the interaction between the microgliat and the acquired immune system, that's the effective in terms of reducing inflammation in the.

Brain for some people, but not all for different strains of cbd. Right. Just want to be really clear, that's still a little bit of fuzz around the edges. So one brand may work for you and it might not work for your friend and vice versa.

That's exactly correct. And that drives me a bit crazy because I can't. There's no standardization and I can simply tell you this antibodies system is extremely important. And the beauty by the way. So the other unbelievably exciting thing that's happening here as we've had a conversation a month ago that rocked my world looking at these cytokines is we're now asking the questions what's the definition of a persister? So persisters we have believed in the past were you still had strep in your system, you still have someone who.

Someone who treats a disease, but it's still present after the symptoms go away. That's a persistent but.

But we've been thinking it's a viable organism. Okay. It's chronic fatigue syndrome associated with Epstein Barr mono. It's mycoplasma pneumonia. There's a whole bunch of different bugs in addition to Lyme. But we think that we've thought for years that they maybe remain active. And in we know they're definitely not active. So what's a persister? It may be a piece of the organism still left in the system, still tickling the immune system. And so now all we need to do is find the cytokine patterns to identify the piece of the immune system that we need to target and modulate them. Not turn it off, but modic sense that it varies so much from state to state.

It does.

So we. So there's lots of things which will quiet down that whole process. Chromoly and sodium in terms of mast cell stabilization. Some can be ketotifen, which is an antihistamine, which is both an antihistamine and a mast cell stabilizer. So and the interaction between the microglia and the mast cells is extremely important. And the interaction between the microglia and the acquired immune system, that's the antibodies system is extremely important. And the beauty, by the way. So the other unbelievably exciting thing that's happening here as we've had a conversation a month ago that rocked my world looking at these cytokines, is we're now asking the questions, modulate them. And we will have. We already have a set of tools to do that. We are going to be able to do that unbelievably well within the next three years. And this is going to completely change how we define diseases. And this is going to completely change how we treat diseases. This is really breakthrough and we're going to be talking about that at this conference. First time anybody's talked about it because we just kind of figured this out about a month ago, talking with Ruth Patterson, Joe Balante, myself, what's the definition of a persister? So persisters, we have believed in the past, were you still had strep in your system, you still have your system.

Someone who treats a disease, but it's still present after the symptoms go. Right. That's a persistent button.

But we've been thinking it's a viable organism in AMI cats. And we went, holy mackerel. We have got 50 patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, post Lyme syndrome, that have been now fed through a deep learning program that Bruce has. And we're waiting for those results to come out and see what the buckets drop.

All right, what you just said there, I'm going to have to kind of step back and do another psa.

Okay. It's chronic fatigue syndrome associated with Epstein Barr monoxide.

I have said I'm going to live to at least 180. Well you just. We figured out last month because 50 patients worth of data went through deep learning and we didn't know this. This is why if we can't do better than our current best in the next 120 years using deep learning.

I swear it's mycoplasma pneumonia. There's a whole bunch of different bugs in addition to Lyme. But we think that we've thought for years that they maybe remain active and in. We know they're definitely not active. So what's a persister?

Because a comet hit the planet or we ran out of topsoil. And since I'm building topsoil on my farm and I'm hoping that you will join me if it's at all possible for you to do the same thing or at least support local farmers. Let's just do those things and let's do our asteroid defense stuff. Elon, I'm counting on you. And then we can all live to 180 like this is doable.

And it is doable. You're absolutely correct. But we're going to maybe a piece of the organism still left in the system still tickling the immune system system. And so now all we need to do is find the cytokine patterns to identify the piece of the immune system. Have to understand what aging is differently. And aging is ultimately inflammation that we need to target and modulate them. Not turn it off but modulate them. And we will have. We already have a set of tools to do that we are going to be. And then how do we. How do we dial it back? How do we. How do we take the poisons out of our system both that are already in and the ones that are already there? And how do we fine tune the immune system so that it's really working for our benefit and not against us.

You're doing something else magic with the summit. It's that you're bringing enough be able.

To do that unbelievably well within the next three years. And this is going to completely change how we define diseases. And this is going to completely change how we treat diseases. This is really breakthrough and we're going to be talking about that big names.

From big institutions that it hopefully will be undeniable. Because in the history of medicine in the last 50 years there has been an enormous amount of repression of valid ideas. Just a built in bias. And that's not to say medicine doesn't work or it's bad or even that there are necessarily bad people in this conference.

First time Anybody talked about it, because we just kind of figured this out.

Charge. Although I would argue there are some of the time. But it's a systems behavior that all human systems, all companies do that. There's a reason that big tobacco said it was good for you. And 51,000 doctors support the idea you should smoke.

Right.

So. But the system of medicine has to acknowledge at a certain point a change like this because you have enough of the greats in the system involved. This is how you create change faster. And that's part of what we need. Before, we would just wait till all the non believers died and a new generation of doctors came in. But that's too slow for the amount of change in the world.

About a month ago, talking with Ruth Patterson, Joe Balante, myself and Ami Katz, and we went, holy mackerel. We have got 50 patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, post Lyme syndrome that have been now fed through a deep learning program around us.

So you're causing change faster by bringing the right people into the room. Gary and I, I think that's cool.

Thank you. That Bruce has. And we're waiting for those results to come out and see what the buckets drop.

All right.

And our goal at the beginning of this was to build a bulletproof conference.

I know, I know, guys.

But in all seriousness, it's got to be academically bulletproof so that we can completely.

High integrity and unimpeachable. What you just said there. I'm gonna have to kind of step back and do another psa. I have said I'm going to live to at least 180. Well, you just. We figured out last month because 50 patients worth of data went through deep learning and we didn't know this. This is why if teachable. Absolutely. Because everything it says is. Is real and backed up by data. I sure do my best. And if it's. If what I say is not data backed up, I'll usually tell you it's not data backed. It's just what I think. And I'm probably. We can't do better than our current best in the next 120 years using deep learning. I swear it's right.

And actually you probably are. So.

My track record is good, but it's not a hundred percent. I was a raw vegan. I admit it.

And then we have a conversation about kale someday. But. Yeah, exactly.

Please. No, now, the other reason I think this matters really greatly, and this is probably a little bit of personal stuff, it's that we are wrecking our kit because a comet hit the planet or we ran out of topsoil. And since I'm building topsoil on my farm and I'm hoping that you will join me if it's at all possible for you to do the same thing or at least support local farmers, let's just do those things and let's do our asteroid defense stuff. Elon, I'm counting on you. And then we can all live to 180 like this is doable.

And it is doable. You're absolutely correct. But we're going to.

It's right now it is normal for kids to be exposed to a healthy amount of bugs. It's how they build lifelong immune systems and by marinating our children in in hand sanitizer to an obsessive degree. You go to the mall, every store. Once you do that really have to.

Understand what aging is differently. And aging is ultimately inflammation. And then how do we dial it back? How do we take the poisons out of our system both that are already in and the ones that are already there? And how do we fine tune that.

Doesn'T even make sense. And by I would say even in situations where they're safe to require obsessive amounts of protective measures, whatever they are. I think it's actually immune system so.

That it's really working for our benefit and not against us.

You're going to cause more immune problems, more behavioral problems, more autoimmunity and more of these things. And so what you're discovering, what you're talking about at this conference, it's stuff we're going to need to fix the damage we did over the last two years. I'm not saying that there wasn't some benefit. There was. I just don't think, you know, the juice was worth the squeeze from where we are today. But it doesn't matter what I think. We have a bunch of kids who have less functional immune systems than they did two years ago because they aren't playing in doing something else. Magic with the summit. It's that you're bringing enough big names from big institutions that it hopefully will be undeniable. Because in the history of medicine in the last 50 years there has been an enormous amount of repression of valid ideas. Just a built in bias and that's dirt the way they did outside. So we're going to need this. We're going to need this for our adults. We're going to need this for our kids in particular kids. So the amount of autism that happens right now, if we follow through on what you're Saying I already predict. This is one of those. I don't have the science, but I already know autism can level off or even go down. If we do what you're doing before people get pregnant, and we do this in younger children, we look at the inflammatory panels, we modulate the cytokines in the right way, and this is part of the equation of living long times. This is very important work you're doing.

Thank you.

And I'm really grateful for it.

You are also 100% correct. The number of autoimmune cases is dramatically on the rise. And by the way, all of these diseases we're talking about are not to.

Say medicine doesn't work or it's bad, or even that there are necessarily bad people in charge, although I would argue there are some of the time. But it's a systems behavior that all human systems, all companies do that. There's a reason that Big Tobacco said it was good for you. And 51,000 doctors support the idea you should smoke.

Right. So not presently considered autoimmune diseases, when in fact they are. They're autoimmune diseases associated with neuroinflammation, brain inflammation. But you're absolutely correct, because we've been living in an increasingly aseptic environment because we're not eating dirt, because we are so sterile in everything that we do. Our immune systems are not getting the workouts they need in order to be able to toughen up and be able to take proper care of us.

But the system of medicine has to acknowledge at a certain point, a change like this because you have enough of the. The greats in the system involved. This is how you create change faster. And that's part of what we need. Before, we would just wait till all the non believers die.

And I'm seeing this, interestingly enough now as people have started to go back to being with their families. Okay. For the last year and a half.

And a new generation of doctors came in, but that's too slow for the amount of change in the world.

I have seen nary a cold, nor gastrointestinal infection, nor a sinus infection or bronchitis in my office. Okay. In the last two weeks, I have seen more colds, more gastroenteritis, more sinus infections than I've seen for the last two years combined.

Because around us. So you're causing change faster by bringing the right people into the room. Gary and I. I think that's cool.

Thank you. And our goal at the beginning of this was to build a bulletproof conference as people are back. And now what's happening is those snotty nose little kids, the ones.

I know. I know guys.

But in all seriousness, it's got to be academic.

That have always been sounding little kids.

And they're cute and you hold them and you snuggle them and then you get exposed to all of those germs. So your immune system goes oh my God, I haven't had to do anything for a year and a half. What the hell do I do now? And yes, being exposed to this stuff on a regular basis actually keeps us healthy. Being exposed to us in children keeps us healthy, makes us healthy.

It's one of the reasons that a.

First year bulletproof so that we can.

Completely high integrity and unimpeachable. Absolutely. Because everything it's says is. Is real and backed up by data. I sure do my best. And if it's ER doctors, they get sick all the time. And then after maybe not even first year, first six months after that, if what I say is not data backed, I'll usually tell you it's not data backed. It's just what I think. And I'm probably suddenly they don't get sick like all their colleagues. It's very rare because their immune system is like oh, you mean I have to work out. Right?

And actually you probably are so my.

My track record every day. And teachers, when they first start teaching, yep, the same thing. And then after they've been a teacher for a year, the next year they don't really have that same thing because we've trained our immune systems to be resilient and strong. And as, as you said, the lower B version of bulletproof, like they can take the hits that the world gives to them. So if you get a cold beak, it is good, but it's not 100%. I was a raw vegan, I admit it.

And then we have a conversation about kale someday. But yeah, exactly.

Because you're walking around without putting something over your face. It's okay, it's normal. And it's not going to keep happening if you keep. Please. No. Now the other reason I think this matters really greatly and this is probably normally exposing yourself to other people and this is missing from our thing. And I would like to ask you a question about whether these cases of autoimmunity that you're seeing on the rise, whether you could correlate them with a test group and in a control group, but there's a certain kind of treatment going around for which they're trying to eliminate a control group. So I'm not going to ask you that question because that would be wrong.

Control groups. Research is tough and control groups are hard, but I think we can actually do a control group. I think basically what we do is background. You do a control group.

A little bit of personal stuff. It's that we are wrecking our kids right now. It is normal for kids to be exposed to a healthy amount of bugs. It's how they build lifelong immune systems. And by people who are healthy and.

Otherwise not apparently healthy. And that's the other thing is apparently healthy.

Marinating our children in hand sanitizer.

Right.

I'm talking about like mandated treatments where the goal is 100 of the population. So you're saying did autoimmunity rise in the group that got the mandated treatment versus the other group that no longer exists? So I would like to at least tough question. At least have a few hundred people where we could do a test. We can't really talk about that because that's, you know, that's the realm of thou shalt be cancer.

Except that there was a study that just came out looking at chronic decay syndrome. And I don't have an.

To an obsessive degree. You go to the mall, every store. Once you do that. Really that doesn't even make sense. And by. I would say even in situations where they're safe to require. Oh, is there. I'm so interested in the real data on this, if we're allowed to talk about it.

Yes, yes, yes. And I don't have the data in front of me. It literally just came out in the last two days and I was going through it.

It's published by obsessive amounts of protective measures, whatever they are.

I think it's actually myalgic encephalomyelitis csf. So me c solve me now. And so it's on their website.

But basically going to cause more immune problems, more behavioral problems, more autoimmunity.

Basically what they found was a higher percentage of people developing post immunization problems who have me. Csf.

Yes. Anyone with strong autoimmunity is in more of these things. And so what you're discovering, what you're talking about, this conference, it's stuff we're going to need to fix the damage we did over the last two years. I'm not saying that there wasn't some benefit. There was. I just don't think the juice was worth the squeeze from where we are today. But it doesn't matter what I think. At higher risk from any immunodulating treatment. I mean that's just how it is.

And so I give you the numbers if I had them off but I don't have off top of my head. But there are real numbers and they have actually demonstrated a significantly higher increased number of cases of their flare up of the ME CSF of them getting sicker and more disabled As a result.

We have a bunch of kids who have less functional immune systems than they did two years ago because they aren't.

Playing in getting the immunizations in this group specifically so.

So perhaps dirt the way they did outside. So we're going to need this. We're going to need this for our adults. We need this for our kids in particular kids. So the amount of autism that happens right now if we follow through on what you're saying I already predict this is one of those. I don't have the science but I already know autism can level off. We could say people with ME CFS in their background or documented autoimmunity ought to have a medical exemption in a normal life.

And a certain percentage of my patients do have that by the way because.

We look at the problem is their employer won't honor it, restaurants won't honor it and the government won't honor it. That's my big thing. Like you guys can say look this is highly recommended for everyone unless we even go down. If we do what you're doing before people get pregnant and we do this in younger children, we look at the inflammatory panels, we modulate the cytokines in the right way. And this is. You have a good reason. I'm just saying sometimes there's a good reason and you know it may be why antidepressants don't work for one person but they work for another. Well if there's good reason don't take anti antidepressants but they might work for.

Right.

And that's just like part of the equation of living long times. This is very important work you're doing.

Thank you.

And I'm. I'm really great medicine 101 so I'm pretty worked up about the whole idea.

That if you was you are also 100% correct. The the number of autoimmune cases the.

Doctor know that this patient is at higher risk from a treatment. It's not okay for some legislator to say they have to get it anyway. Like that's not how the world works.

No. And we need to not have our medical judgment usurped by the state legislatures.

By legislatures or insurance companies. Doctors have to be able to Be doctors. And anyone who gets this is dramatically on the rise.

And by the way, all of these diseases we're talking about are not presently considered autoimmune diseases, when in fact they are. They're autoimmune diseases associated with neuroinflammation, brain inflammation. But you're absolutely correct, because we've been living in an increasingly aseptic environment because we're not eating dirt in the way of that.

It all goes back to Benjamin Rush. Yes. The only doctor founding father who warned of medical tyranny. Although people sometimes say that wasn't his quote. It probably was, but regardless.

Founder of my undergrad, by the way. But he was founder of my undergrad school.

Oh, see, I love it. So you know about that. So, guys, there is no protection in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights about medical freedom, but there is for a lot of other freedoms. So if they said you have the right of free speech, the right of guns, and the right to choose your own medical care, we would not be where we are right now. But thankfully, the first two are still there, and the second one is to.

Protect the first, as we are so sterile in everything that we do. Our immune systems are not. And one of them.

And that's why the US is not Australia right now.

One of the massive problems with getting the workouts they need in order to be able to toughen up and be able to take proper care of us. And I'm seeing this, interestingly enough now as people have started to go back to being with their families. Okay, for the last year and a half, access to medical care is insurance. Because insurance says, yeah, oh, you can do anything you want, but we won't pay for it. And then one medication that I use for patients is if they have to pay out of pocket, 1500 dollars for.

The month, it's nuts.

My daughter just got medication that normally would have cost her six. I have seen nary a cold, nor gastrointestinal infection, nor a sinus infection, nor bronchitis in my office. Okay. In the last two weeks, I have seen more colds, more gastroenteritis, $15,500 from in the US from more sinus infections than I've seen for the last two years confined. Because Canada for $1,000.

Well, that's because there's the law in the US that says the US government cannot by law negotiate prices with drug companies.

Well, that's. That's a part.

What do you think sign that went into law?

That's as far as Medicare is concerned. You're Absolutely correct. Right as people are back. And now what's happening is those snotty nose little kids, the ones that have.

Always been snotty nose little kids, and.

They'Re cute and you hold them and you snuggle them and then you get exposed to all of those germs. So your immune system goes, oh, my God, I haven't had to do it.

It's crazy pants. So we don't have to go into diagnosing the system because it has multiple ills. But what I do want to just highlight is that, number one, there are doctors like Gary Kaplan here. There are many of them out there. Gary's conference, I think, is setting up to change the face of medicine, because there are lots of disparate anything for.

A year and a half. What the hell do I do now?

And yes, being disconnected groups of patients and doctors looking at them, and they're all looking at the same thing, but they don't know it. And by bringing these together, it's sort of like we used to have just gay rights if you go back into the 80s, and now it's like LGBTQIA plus. And then there's like a bunch of other letters that are raising their hand.

To be added to this stuff on a regular basis. Actually keeps us healthy. Being exposed to us in children keeps. Keeps us healthy, makes us healthy.

It's one of the reasons that first year ER doctors, they get sick all the time. And then after maybe not even first year, first six months after that, suddenly they don't get sick like all their colleagues. It's very rare because their immune system is like, oh, you mean I have to work out. I'm not sure where that's going to end. But the reason that that works is you get them all together into the equivalent of a trade union. And so diseases need trade unions as well. So you have enough mass to get attention from drug companies, get attention from medical schools, and you're creating essentially a trade union for autoimmunity, and it's badass. And I like that.

Thank you.

Every day. And teachers, when they first start teaching. Yep, the same thing. And then after they've been a teacher for a year, the next year, they don't really have that same thing because we've trained our immune systems to be resilient and strong. And as you said, the lower bio version of bulletproof.

Thank you. We want as many people at this conference as possible. We need your support. We want you informed, we want your docs informed. We want to help you get better. That's. That's what this conference is about.

All right, so let me make a suggestion. Our Upgrade Collective members are going nuts. They're all signing up for it. By the way, one of them says that. It says tickets are not available, so you might want to have your guide. Like, they can take the hits that the world gives to them. So if you get a cold, because look at that.

Oh, good.

That should be fixed by the time this goes. This goes live. But here's what I want you guys to do. You should, if you want to go to the conference. It's very affordable. And what you're going to find is if you talk to your doctor between now and then, say, hey, do you. As you're walking around without putting something over your face, it's okay. It's normal. And it's not going to keep happening if you keep normally exposing yourself to other people. And this is missing from our thing. And I would like to ask you a question about whether these cases of autoimmunity that you're seeing on the rise, whether you could correlate them, you know about this? It's by the greats in medicine. You should take a look at it. You might enjoy it. And it's going to be written up in medical journals. This is a doctor level. I'm just going because I'm really interested in my condition.

Right?

So tell your doctor about it, because we need doctors to know that this is real. And I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say, as a guy who's lived most of this, I'm like your. Your ideal patient type who won. Okay. Like, I am younger, smarter, faster, stronger, healthier with a test group and a control group. But there's a certain kind of treatment going around for which they're trying to eliminate a control group. So I'm not going to ask you that question because that would be wrong.

Control groups. Research is tough, and control groups are hard.

Like, I like the vast majority of what's going on with my biology, and I came from behind. So given that stance and that set of knowledge, this.

But I think we can actually do a control group. I think basically what we do is background. You do a control group of people who are healthy and otherwise not apparently healthy. And that's the other thing is apparently healthy. Right?

I'm talking about, like, mandated treatments where the goal is 100% of the population. So you're saying, did autoimmunity rise in the group that got the mandated treatment versus the other group that no longer exists. So I would like to at least have a few hundred people where we could do a test. But I'm not. We can't really talk about that because that's, you know, that's the realm of thou shalt be cancer.

Except that there was a study that just came out looking at chronic fatigue syndrome and I don't have it in front of me.

Oh, is there. I'm so interested in the real data on this if we're allowed to talk about it.

Yes, yes, yes. And I don't have the data in front of me. It literally, literally just came out in the last two days and I was going through it as published by this.

Is the Right Direction. This is the real stuff. So let's get your doctors on board with understanding it. They'll probably treat you better. But it's, it's a nominal amount of money and it's, you know, four days of content, probably more than you have time to watch. But I'm definitely going to be there tuning in. It's HopeHealingKnowledge.com is the name of it.

So Dave, thank you very much for that point because it is extremely important. It's a full myalgic encephalomyelitis csf. So me c solve me now. And so it's on their website. But basically what they found was a higher percentage of people developing post immunization problems who had a medical conference. Okay. There's 19 and a half hours of continuing medical education for physicians to attend. This is sponsored by Georgetown as well as my foundation for total recovery. And this is a conference for docs to get educated by some of the best people in the world and have me csf.

Yes, anyone with strong autoimmunity is at higher risk from any immunodulating treatment. I mean that's just how it is.

Right. And so I give you the numbers if I had them off, but I don't have a thought. I have, but they're are real numbers and they have actually demonstrated a significantly higher increased number of cases of their flare up of the ME CSF of them getting sicker and more disabled as a result of getting the immunizations in this group specifically.

So perhaps we could say people with ME CFS in their background or documented autoimmune. I'm laughing because I have lied to take medical training that requires you to be medically certified so you can get continuing medical education. So I've attended a few conferences as Dr. Dave. I've never treated a patient because I can't have patients because I don't treat any of that kind of stuff. But, you know, in order to get in and get the training, community ought to have a medical exemption in a normal life.

And a certain percentage of my patients do have that, by the way, because.

We look at the problem is their employer won't honor it, restaurants won't honor it, and the government, it won't honor it. That's my big thing. Like, you guys can say, look, this is highly recommended for everyone. Unless you have a good reason. I'm just saying sometimes there's a good reason. And it may be why antidepressants don't work for one person, but they work for another. Well, if there's good reason, don't take antidepressants, but they might work for.

Right.

And that's just like medicine 101. So I'm pretty worked up about the whole idea that if you as a doctor know that this patient is at higher risk from a treatment, it's not okay for some legislator to say they have to get it anyway. Like, that's not how the world works.

Works. No. And we need.

And you're just saying, I'm going to open it up for 69 bucks to everyone. That's also disruptive. So there is no. Like, like, the whole reason you use Latin words in. In medicine is to make it harder to be a doctor, that it's unnecessary. So you're opening this up in a. In a cool way that's. That's different as well.

We're democratizing this. We want everybody there because everybody can learn. There's. We need to not have our medical judgment usurped by the state legislatures, like.

By legislatures or insurance companies. Doctors have to be able to be doctors. And anyone who gets in the way of that, it all goes back to Benjamin Rush. Yes. The only doctor, founding father who warned of medical tyranny. Although people sometimes say that wasn't his quote. It probably was, but regardless.

Founder of my undergrad, by the way, but he was founder of my undergrad school. Something for everybody to learn from this conference.

I think that's the case. And there's also something for everyone to learn from this, from this episode. We talked about inflammation, we talked about aspirin, we talked about all kinds of stuff. But most of all, if you're sitting here going, I so don't like my life. I don't know why I'm puffy. I have all this inflammation. I don't know what the hell's going on. It's all Caused by the same basic stuff. Oh, I see. I love it. So you know about that. So, guys, there is no protection in the Constitution, in the Bill of Rights about medical freedom, but there is for a lot of other freedoms. So if they said you have the right of free speech, the right of guns, and the right to choose your own medical care, we would not be where we are right now. But thankfully, the first two are still there, and the second one is to protect the first one. And that's why the US Is not Australia right now.

One of the massive problems with access to medical care is insurance, because insurance says, oh, you can do anything you want, but we won't pay for it. And then one medication that I use for patients is if they have to pay out of pocket, fifteen hundred dollars for the month.

The uniting elements here, oh, there was an infection thing. There's an immune response. There's a mast cell issue, there's a mold issue, there's a Mercury issue. There's not that many things when you unpack it all. And Gary's assembling them into one of the major packages so we can look at this from a more functional perspective. Thanks again, my friend, for being on the show and for doing this conference. It's nuts.

My daughter just got medication that normally would have cost her $16,500 from in the US from Canada for $1,000.

Well, that's because there's the law in the US that says the US government cannot, by law, negotiate prices with drug companies.

Well, that's. That's as far as. That's as far as Medicare is concerned. You're absolutely correct. Right.

It's crazy pants. So we don't have to go into, you know, diagnosing the system because it has.

Pretty excited about it. I'm honored to be here. Dave. Thank you for having me here. Keep up the work you're doing. It's so important, and I bless that.

To have you as a friend.

Thank you.

Thank you. Multiple ills. But what I do want to just highlight is that, number one, there are doctors like Gary Kaplan here. There are many of them out there. Gary's conference, I think, is setting up to change the face of medicine because there are lots of disparate, disconnected groups of patients and doctors looking at them, and they're all looking at the same thing, but they don't know it. And by bringing these together, it's sort of like we used to have just gay rights if you go back into the 80s, and now it's like LGBTQIA. Plus and then there's like a bunch of other letters that are raising their hand to be added. I'm not sure where that's going to end, but the reason that that works is you get them all together into the equivalent of a trade union. And so diseases need trade unions as well. So you have enough mass to get attention from drug companies, get attention from medical schools, and you're creating essentially a trade union for autoimmunity. And it's badass. And I like that.

Thank you. Thank you. We want as many people at this conference as possible. We need your support. We want you informed, we want your docs informed. We want to help you get better. That's what this conference is about.

All right, so let me make a suggestion. Our Upgrade Collective members are going nuts. They're all signing up for it. By the way, one of them says that it says tickets are not available. So you might want to have your guys look at that and be sure that should be fixed by the time this goes live. Here's what I want you guys to do. If you want to go to the conference, it's very affordable. And what you're going to find is if you talk to your doctor between now and then, say, hey, do you know about this? It's by the greats in medicine. You should take a look at it. You might enjoy it. And it's going to be written up in medical journals. This is a doctor level. I'm just going because I'm really interested in my condition. So tell your doctor about it because we need doctors to know that this is real. And I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say, as a guy who's lived most of this, I'm like your ideal patient type who once, okay, I am younger, smarter, faster, stronger, healthier, and I like the vast majority of what's going on with my biology. And I came from behind. So given that stance and that set of knowledge, this is the right direction. This is the real stuff. So let's get your doctors on board with understanding it. They'll probably treat you better, but it's a nominal amount of money and it's four days of content, probably more than you have time to watch. But I'm definitely going to be there, tuning in. It's HopeHealingKnowledge.com is the name of it.

So, Dave, thank you very much for that point because it is extremely important. It's. It's a full blown medical conference. Okay? There's 19 and a half hours of continuing medical Education for physicians to attend. This is sponsored by Georgetown, as well as my foundation for total recovery. And this is a conference for docs to get educated by some of the best people in the world.

And I'm laughing because I have lied to take medical training that requires you to be medically certified so you can get continuing medical education. So I've attended a few conferences as Dr. Dave. I've never treated a patient because I can't have patients, because I don't treat any of that kind of stuff. But in order to get in and get the training, and you're just saying I'm going to open it up for 69 bucks to everyone, that's also disruptive. So there is no. Like. Like, the whole reason you use Latin words in. In medicine is to make it harder to be a doctor, that it's unnecessary. So you're opening this up in a. In a cool way that's. That's different as well.

We're democratizing this. We want everybody there because everybody can learn. There's something for everybody to learn from this conference.

I think that's the case. And there's also something for everyone to learn from this. From this episode. We talked about inflammation. We talked about aspirin, we talked about all kinds of stuff. But most of all, if you're sitting here going, I so don't like my life. I don't know why I'm puffy. I have all this inflammation. I don't know what the hell's going on. It's all caused by the same basic stuff. The uniting elements here. Oh, there was an infection thing. There's an immune response, there's a mast cell issue, there's a mold issue, there's a Mercury issue. There's not that many things when you unpack it all. And Gary's assembling them into one of the major packages so we can look at this from a more functional perspective. Thanks again, my friend, for being on the show and for doing this conference. I'm pretty excited about it.

I'm honored to be here. Dave, thank you for having me here. Keep up the work you're doing. It's so important, and I blessed to have you as a friend. Thank you.

Thank you.