How to Deal with Toxic People (Including Yourself) with Robert Greene

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. You mentioned toxic people. It seems like we have more of a problem with that. And just to set context for everyone listening, there's 12 things here that you can talk about. Each month centers around a major theme. Things like self control, human nature, toxic people, power and seduction and persuasion. It feels like though, that this toxic people thing has become a bigger issue lately. We have all sorts of divisions in society and all, and we have people are shaming other people for, you know, all sorts of things that probably aren't worthy of shame. What is your number one strategy for dealing with toxic people? I know you've written chapters and books on it and all, but if we were to offer some real value to people, what would it be?

Well, it's very simple, is learn how to avoid dealing with them or learn how to avoid recognize them before they get enmeshed in your life. Yeah, because as I point out, in the laws of human nature, people who are truly toxic, we're talking about like narcissists, people who are very passive aggressive enviers, they don't come with a billboard announcing that they're toxic. Right. They've learned through their whole life. So strategies on how to appear the opposite. So they wear a mask. Being very charming, being very pleasing of being interested in your ideas, being very charismatic. You hire them, you partner with them, you marry them. And then, lo and behold, six months down the road, you start seeing other signs of that character leaking through the toxic part. Now, it could be sooner than that, but sometimes it takes a while. Then now you're emotionally invested in them. You have a relationship, they're working for you, they're your business partner, and they're playing all kinds of mind games with you. They're doing push and pull, they're making you feel like you're the problem, that they're the victim. They're very good at turning things around. And then to disengage from them becomes really traumatic. It's like trying to pull out all the weeds in your garden. It takes massive amounts of work because they're everywhere, right? They're in all aspects of your. Inside of you. They inhabit you. And so it can take months and years for you to recover from a relationship with a very powerful, toxic individual. And so the best strategy of all, it's like Sun Tzu strategy, the best way to win a war is to win it without any bloodshed. Your strategy is so perfect that the enemy collapses before a single arrow is shot. You know, so the best strategy is not to get involved with these people, to recognize them. And to recognize them is not easy. I'm never saying it's easy because they're masters. They are masters at disguise, right? And they play on your emotions. And we're very weak that way. But there are always signs for recognizing them. And I sort of give you kind of lessons in the book. So I tell you, for instance, to pay attention to the patterns in their life, to look at what went on before. So if you're going to hire somebody, look at their past and go into that deeply and see the patterns in them, pay deep attention to their non verbal things. So I tell people, for instance, a toxic narcissist, they seem very interested in you. They're talking to you. Oh, this person isn't a narcissist. But their eyes, their eyes are kind of dead. They're not really engaging and connecting with you on a deep human level. They're just simply trying to get information from you that they can use later on. It's fake empathy. You can recognize that if you tune yourself to non verbal behavior. And we humans have a hard time doing that because we've become so verbal that we just are just like hypnotized by people's words, that we fail to look at their actual body language. But you can't fake things with your voice. For instance, you can kind of fake your eyes and some of your facial expressions, but your voice will reveal that you're nervous that you're not being genuine, that something else is going on. So, you know, I talk a lot in the laws of human nature about how to kind of master the art of deciphering people's nonverbal behavior.

If only I would have known these things. I have done all the things you listed at the beginning of that about partnering with, marrying, taking investment from hiring, all the above, Right. And by the time you figure it out, unwinding it is tens to hundreds of times more work. And so it's developing as kind of a spider sense. And the funny thing is, in every one of those situations, I had the little spider sense that said something's not right. I'm thinking of an example where someone came to the first biohacking conference when I was just creating the field, and I want to work with you, I want to work with you. But there was that deadness in his eyes and all that stuff. So since that time, that person has copied almost every episode that I've ever had. In fact, you'll probably, as soon as this goes Live. You'll probably get a phone call the next day asking if he'll be on that show. This is like eight years later.

And literally tell me who this is.

It's not about revenge or anything like that, but it's one of those things where you know five times the person's call and said, why is it you won't go to a conference where I am? I'm like, because you stab me in the back every time, man. Like, I have clean boundaries. I, you know, and then there's the how do I make it right? And here's a list of things you can do to make it right. Every single time he tells himself he did the list, but he didn't actually do the list. And then I call him on it and he gets all. And then runs away. What is it in people that makes them believe that they did things that they didn't do?

Well, God, if I knew, if I had the perfect answer to that, I would be a multi billionaire. I mean, you're asking me to solve the riddle of human misery. Yeah, but you're as close as anyone.

I know, so I want to hear what you think, man.

Well, we're very good at cognitive dissonance, at confirmation bias. I mean, it's sort of how I look at, in a way. So we're invested in believing what we already want to believe in. Right. So if information comes in that doesn't. That's kind of discordant with that, that maybe we're not listening to Dave's list or whatever, that we're not actually enacting it. Our first reaction, human reaction is not, I've got to reassess myself and my own consciousness and how I respond to people know. Our first reaction is to get defensive. Well, Dave has a problem. Dave isn't really listening. Dave is a narcissist himself, right?

Oh, yeah, Lots of people think that. They only think that because I'm so good. Just to be really clear. All right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, people think that about me as well, so don't worry about that. So we want to believe what we already believe. So we're going to go down that path. We're going to tell ourselves. Because the hardest thing for a human being to do, or one of the hardest things is to be self aware, to actually look inside oneself and say, this is what's really going on. I'm fooling myself. And we are masters at self deception. So in the 48 laws of power, I talk about deception and con artists, but in laws of human nature. It's almost about self deception. How we're con artists with ourselves, how we create an image of ourselves as being morally right, being a good person, being intelligent, being rational, being empathetic. Whereas, in fact, we're usually quite far below that ideal. And so for someone like this imitator, or however I would call him, to actually step back and analyze himself and say, am I really doing What Dave is asking is a step that's very difficult for people to take. It has to become a habit in your life, right, because your default position is to always look externally and blame other people.