IG Live with Joovv

Dave, how's it going?

Good, how are you?

I'm great. Coffee and chatting about books with everybody.

I just got done with my bulletproof coffee.

Nice.

How's everything going?

Things are going good. I know that people always have questions about light therapy and I've got one for you. You guys make some nice high end red light therapy devices and you know a lot about it. So talk to me about red light and fasting.

Red light and fasting. Hmm. It's a good question. You know, I would say, oh, what.

That means is I have no idea what the answer is. I'm going to think of something. So it's not that smooth just saying no.

You know what, I got to think about it because it's not a question I get often, but I would say is what an important point of like light just in general is, and this is really good for most people, is to have a new perspective on what light really is. Light is actually energy. I know a lot of people look at light as that. It's something like an illumination, right? It helps us see better. But light really is traveling energy through the air. I mean the technical term is electromagnetic radiation. So it's traveling light. And certain wavelengths of light have a, have a pretty big impact on your body and specifically on a cellular level. So red and neuromfred just happens to enhance ATP production, which is adenosine triphosphate. So for those that don't know what that is, it's the energy currency of the body. Right. So when you're going through a fasted state, theoretically you're needing an energy source, right? Some somewhere else other than food. So can, can light be that? I mean, it could be. I mean you would probably think the more sunlight you get under a fasted state, you're gonna, your body's just gonna be in a better homeostasis state. So that's probably what I would say, you know, without really knowing a lot of literature and seeing a lot of scientific studies around it.

It's interesting because in it must have been head strong. One of my books, the one about mitochondria, I found research that says up to 10% and that's quite unusual of the energy that your body gets, can come from light, but usually doesn't. And you don't want to be running on just light. I'm not entirely certain that breath area light are a real thing, although where they are. But I think those are people who probably just drink some coffee when no one's looking, as far as I can tell. Now that said, we also know in study research I've done on light therapy over the last 20 years that you can measure and that extra electrons are getting put into cytochrome.

Cytochrome C oxidase.

Yep. Thank you. Cytochrome C oxidase. So you really are getting extra electrons. And the whole point is when you're fasted, you want your body to be making energy and you want to feel good while you're fasting. So it will make energy from fat that's stored. It'll make energy from either external, uh, external mcts and things like that, which are things I'm writing about in the book. But one thing that happens especially for new fasters is you start dipping in energy and you're like, you just feel awful or you get like just kind of a whole body anxiety and you put red light therapy over the chest, over the gut or even the, the brain, you actually feel very noticeably different. I've even used it on my kids. Like it, it's a, it's a real deal. So something's happening with mitochondrial stuff. Whether it's directly electrons, I don't know that we really know, but I know during fasting it works really well.

Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting. I mean that's, it's interesting and I. There's very much potentially that effect, no doubt. And that's what's really cool about where just light is in general, specifically red and near infrared is. It's still so evolving. And we know that it, it provides a pretty systemic effect the, throughout the entire body. And part of that is the mechanism is it helps increase signaling pathways so cells actually start communicating better. So like an analogy, you know, that, that I will use is like a, if you look at like a battery, it can connect to a bunch of other batteries and it's working more efficient, you know. So that's something we actually educate heavily on. And you're mentioning it with fasting of relying on another energy source. But really just in humans in general, we're, we're in a really big out, out of state of balance. And part of it, and majority of the part is of our modern lifestyle, right? You know, go back 100 years and the average American slept before they brought light in the home. Over nine and a half hours, the average American slept. Then when you started creeping, you know, electricity in the home, right? And then you started bringing TVs in, color TVs, computers, screenshots. The average American now sleeps six and a half hours. So that's a Drastic lower. Now, can you survive on that? Sure you can, right? But not if you're not getting the good quality sleep, which I know, you know, we've had a discussion about that before. I remember when. Yep, yep. You're not getting that good quality sleep.

Like I get my six and a half hours almost every night. And that's what makes you live longest, if you're healthy enough to feel good after six and a half hours. But most, and I've been using red lights for 20 years, I mean, it is a very noticeable difference in how you feel. There's circadian effects. And when you put it over your, like over your upper neck and back, you put it over your gut, put it over, this will be a little odd. You put over your nipples or over your genitals and watch what happens. Red light, levels of nitric oxide and nitric oxide increases blood flow. And when blood flow goes to areas that are, you know, pleasure zones as well as other biological uses, good stuff happens. So it's very, it's one of those things people say, this can't be real. How could red light do this? Well, there's tons of studies and the first ones are really only about 25 years old, which is why I started playing with it, you know, years ago. And since then, the ability to have small, portable, battery powered and very high powered LEDs compared to the early days, it works. Well, here's a question, this is actually a really good one from the real Deanna. Do I do red light daytime or evening? Now I'm going to answer that, but I want your answer first. What do you think about timing of red light?

You know, that's interesting. You could technically, you know, I hear we see, I see on social media people saying, you know, time it with the sunrise or the sunset because that's when red light and near infrared is most present. And that's actually not true. It's one, it's the most dominant because the other wavelengths of light can't hit the surface because they're further away. So a la blue light, it's a shorter wavelength. Right. And so if you look at the sun and how it'd be hitting the earth, those wavelengths aren't going to make it. They're not long enough. Right. They're not going to hit. So you're just going to get the red and near infrared. Red and near infrared actually is in your routine, especially in the wintertime. Getting an adequate dosage is key. I personally like to use it before bed because it really helps me wind down Especially the ambient red that our new devices can deliver. There's an ambient mode. So instead of it delivering high power red, you can actually lower the setting. And so it can just. Your house can light up, you know, in red in a lower, lower dim setting. So I like to do it at night. Some people like to do it more right when they get up in the morning. I've gone back and forth with both. So, you know, just to be honest, Dave, we've seen people mixed reactions. Some people, they feel a little bit stimulated before bed, so they like to do it more in the morning. Yeah, you know, so it kind of depends on the individual basis.

When you look at circadian biology, there's three things and I went really deep on this because, you know, like we're friends. But my true light company or sorry, true dark, the glasses company.

Yep.

I found the studies and it turns out it's intensity of light and it's angle of light and color of light. All three matter for circadian timing. So when people are using the joovv before bed, if it's overstimulating, here's the hack for that. Don't shine it in your eyes.

That's right.

So when I do it, I'll put it like over my gut or over my chest and then I put a blanket over it. Right. And you can't do it for too long because you know, lights get warm. But you can just be something that blocks light. Right. And then what you end up doing is you end up getting the dose without exposing your eyes. And even if it's red light, which is generally the lowest, that spectrum doesn't mess with you much. But super bright red light, still too much. In my showers in the house, I have two lights. I have the normal light above the shower and there's another one with a red switch. And that's just a circadian time. So you get up in the morning, take a shower, there is a higher percentage of red in the morning. That's not therapeutic, that's just circadian timing. But what we're doing, light is therapeutic doses of light. Right. Which can, as a side effect have circadian stuff. So if you guys using the joov, just don't shine it in your eyes and like you'll find it doesn't overstimulate you at night. And if you put it over your thyroid, it may also overstimulate you. And that's a different effect because it can actually even grow organs. Not the juice specifically, no. No devices allowed to grow organs without a permit. But if you were to shine a red light over your thyroid gland, it may upregulate your thyroid function.

And you could, if you're wanting to do more of a full body, like, like Dr. Hamblin, he's on our scientific advisory board. He actually uses the near infrared to help and he finds it helps induce his sleep. Right. So near infrared is invisible. So you're not going to have that same issue because of the brightness.

I. I definitely am a fan of the infrared as well. It's good stuff. In fact, I use that on my brain. That was the first one I used. First light therapy I did was very powerful near infrared LED on my brain. And guys, you should watch out if you're gonna like really go heavy on that stuff. I put it, it was in the very early days of experimenting. I put it over my language processing center. This is not a joo. This was a like a little pill bottle, like hacked together thing. I put it over my language processing center. One little spot wasted me that part of my brain for longer than I should have. And for the next like three hours, I spoke in garbled words. It was the weirdest thing. But ever since then, I feel like I'm smarter. Oh, I'm kidding. I don't know.

How many years ago was that, Dave?

Oh, that was, that was at least 10, 15, something like that. Yeah. The very first LED device with the brain was made on a Yahoo group and the guy sold 200 of them red and infrared light. This is a true story that he deleted the group. He's like, guys, I fixed my depression. My brain works better than ever before. Go to med school because I'm capable. And he deleted everything because he worried it affect his medical license. Isn't that too funny?

That's hilarious.

You can do it. And I do find them putting a juve like over the back of the head. Some of it does go through the skull. I mean, that's just how red infrared work. And it's probably good for you. Which is, which is good stuff.

Yeah, I think so. And I mean, if you go back and this is. I like to educate on this too, because there's such an education curve when it comes to red and near. Right. Because it right right away, at least for me. The first time I heard of it, I was like, this is gimmicky. There's no way light can do this. Right. But really it's, it's really just how much we're exposed to this light naturally in sunlight. You know what I mean? And people always Tout vitamin D as you know that that's all, that's the important metric to look at from sunlight. And it's actually the very littlest that actually gets through the atmosphere. Only, only about 5 to 6% of the wavelengths that get through is in the UV spectrum. It's so potent, right? If so much got through, it would fry us. And so you're, you know, the highest irradiance. And actually I looked at this with a researcher, Dr. Kleber out of Brazil. The highest radiance that will hit is in the red and near infrared spectrum, which makes a lot of sense because that's the infrared is the warmth you feel from the sun, right? Because infrared contains heat. We know that from near infrared. There's a teeny bit of heat to it. But also infrared, right? How many people have been in an infrared sauna? You're getting heated by those wavelengths of light.

It's totally true. And what we're doing is we're saying, oh, this specific wavelength, when we take it out of the spectrum of sun, it has a strong effect. And if you mix it in, it's kind of like, think about what's on your plate, right? You have some mix of proteins, right? And some of them might be, oh, I don't know, sarin, the nerve gas, which is a plant based protein and bad for you. You might also have some spider venom on there, which is an animal based protein. Therefore animal based proteins are bad for you. Or holy crap. Different proteins could do different things. Like, who would have ever thought, right? So with light, it's the same way. So you can, and this is one of the big areas for biohacking, the definition, change the environment around you and inside of you so you have control of your biology. We're tuning the light signal that's picked up by our visual system, by our timing system that's different than the visual system, but sits in the same place by our skin, by our mitochondria, by other parts of our cells. Even our DNA is apparently light sensitive. It makes one photon every 40 seconds. So there's all kinds of cool stuff going on in there. And, and we're like, oh, what if we just like add a bit more red? It's like I do stuff in addition to using the direct like red light therapy. This will look kind of weird. Actually. I can show you better with this. So I have this amazing light switch from Amazon, right? And if you look behind me at my cool skeleton back there, that's actually here, I'll get closer because it's Is that real? Of course it's real. Because after all, every crocodile has gold teeth.

Oh, that's awesome.

But look what's sticking out of there. Just some cheap red light bulb. But the reason I do that, actually, this one isn't even on my switch because it broke. Anyway, so at night, it looks like this, right? So this is not therapeutic light. This is circadianite. Right? But quite often during the day. In fact, I do this during the day. You guys are getting a weird tour. But this is how important light as a nutrient when you mix it up is, right? So up there, you see that red light there? So I have a little bit of red light kind of doping my area because I'm still looking at a screen, even though I have my screen dimmed and all that stuff, which means I don't have to wear the glasses that I make when I'm at home because I have halogen light, which is more like sunlight. Right? So this is just ambient stuff, and that's how important the mix is. And then when it comes to therapeutic doses, right, we've got concentrated stuff near your skin with you, then. Same thing. If you would have a bright blue light, it would totally have a different effect on your biology. Just like eating a bunch of corn syrup versus eating, you know, a bunch of bacon. They're different stuff. And neither one of them is perfect, and neither one of them is probably all evil because I'd rather have corn syrup and starve to death.

I just actually, you're dead on, Dave. You're dead on. And that's where we are with light. We're still discovering what different wavelengths do. We're still discovering what does green do. Right. Green is more associated with blue and stimulate. But what does yellow do? Right, Right. What does orange do? What does purple do? We're still discovering that just like you go through the 90s or the 1900s, we were discovering vitamins, vitamin A, vitamin B, vitamin D, you know, and that's only 100 years ago. You know what I mean? So that's what's really exciting to see, that there's so many benefits to red and near in particular, and virtually no side effects, especially when you deliver it at a safe dosage. So it's just, again, we're talking about. We talk about balance. And if you just give your body what it needs, it's amazing what it can do. It's the most advanced machine on Earth. Our bodies are. And as long as we just give it what it needs, it does all the work for us.

It will do the work. And that's why some of the transhumanism stuff where people are like, hey, I want to cut off my arm and put on a laser. Maybe you should upgrade and make full use of the hardware you have before you actually replace it. There's so much untapped stuff inside our brain. We probably don't need to go in and modify the hardware. That's a lazy approach to doing it. We got to get better. But talking about data, you look at what happens with collagen thickness and red light, and there's lots of studies. There's a lot of these in Superhuman in my anti aging book before Fastest Way that just came out. And in that book, I talk about increasing collagen thickness using exactly the spectrum of light that you guys have in the tube, right? And you do that and you actually get less wrinkles and you get thicker collagen. And as you age, your collagen thickness declines over time unless you do something about it, right? And what do you know? Red light is something you can do about it. So people notice a huge difference. That's why we've got it at upgrade labs down in la. I'm opening one up here in Victoria. So we treat people with red light medicine called Juven Groove, or people like vibrating red light for mitochondrial stimulation. And it, it works. And so I'm. I'm a believer. No one actually knows that. I'm 74. I mean, look at the skin.

Dave. You look like you're. You look like you're 40. But that's just the outside appearance, though, right? Like, that's just like the, the light working internally and showing the outside appearance. You know what I mean? And I think we see that big effect on the skin because it's working on a cellular level internally. And a big part of that is the increase in blood flow. You mentioned nitric oxide. And in fact, we just released another article on our site called Less Ice, More Light. And in fact, the saying behind that is, you know, the Rice method, right? That. That would have been around forever with an injury. Well, that, that gentleman that actually, his name's escaping me, but he's actually walked that completely back now. And in fact, he's saying that if you're icing more than five minutes, it's actually detrimental to your. To an injury. And a big reason why, and I'm sure you know, is inflammation is a very natural process in the body, right? I know everybody that they hear that word and they think, oh, you want low levels, but you actually Want a balance of inflammation in the body. There is good inflammation, and the good inflammation is if I roll my ankle and that swells up like a balloon, that is my body protecting that and starting to fix the problem. And blood flow is huge importance to that. So what does ice do? Ice actually halts blood flow and reduces the swelling, which is actually the opposite of what you want to do. You want to actually get the inflammation there, get the blood flow there, and you're actually going to heal quicker doing that. And there are actually studies with red and Nirm Fred showing that.

It'S because when you have acute injury, in other words, inflammation, because something is wrong, it's usually really beneficial. However, it can go over. We see that in Covid, right? You know, oh, there's a cytokine storm, right? And you see it in some injuries where no blood gets in there. And then you might want to actually put some ice on it. But to regularly ice it just because you're supposed to, it actually totally blocks the body's healing effect. And so if you were to use red light on an injury, and I've done this, I've had, you know, all sorts of different injuries. You put red light on, they heal twice as fast as they're supposed to. You do it post surgically, and they're like, oh, man, something's. Something's wrong because the tissues grew in over the stitches. Like, what did Jeffy's taking out last week? Because you put them in four days ago. And that sort of thing happens all the time because we can just give the body what it needs. So I'm a huge fan of red light because it's not talked about enough. And in the early days of biohacking, like creating the community, launching the movement, I was really. I would just put little tidbits out there about it because I'd use it. But honestly, if I just stood up and been like, red light is really the bomb. They would have just said, this guy's nuts. Because already, like putting butter in your coffee, this guy's nuts. And so far, I've been proven to be right multiple times, including on intermittent fasting. If you guys have seen the latest book, if not fast, fastest way dot com. But what. What I will just tell you is red light is a very important part of your biohacking conversation, and it's come down in price compared to where it was a long time ago. So you guys have high quality stuff, and I think it's worth putting in your biohacking arsenal. And if you get nauseous a lot or you get headaches a lot?

You'll like that I think too. Dave, this is a really interesting study to mention of. And I want to hit on a couple things here just how it works, because there was a study that was recently released that was sent to me that they were shining red on the wrist, an artery in the wrist, and it was relieving pain in the ankles and feet of someone that had neuropathy. Right. And so how could it be doing that? It's kind of like, how the hell could it be doing that? And if you look at last year, just early 2020, they released a study that they discovered there's free floating mitochondria in your bloodstream. They just discovered this. Now that's that that's not bound to a cell. And for those that are wondering, well, what is that? Before then, mitochondria had only been found in a cell, bound in a cell. These are free floating, and they found millions of them floating throughout your plasma in the bloodstream. Right. So theoretically, if it's enhancing mitochondria function and that's then going throughout the body, that could be an explanation of why there's a massive systematic effect that we see when using red and near infrared light. We see benefits. And these are new studies, so anyone can go out and look for them. But gut health, microbiome, you mentioned cognitive function, you mentioned thyroid. You know, we have people report to us increases in testosterone, same benefits for females and their hormones bringing a balancing effect. So we see these, all these wide ranging claims and reports, and that's why people see this and they're like, man, this has got to be a scam. How could one thing be doing that? But that's what the data is showing.

Us, how one thing does that. It's called mitochondria, because they pretty much do everything like they're the puppet. Make them work better, you sleep better, you perform better, you think better, everything works. That's the core. Bulletproof diet, bulletproof lifestyle. Everything there is about making the mitochondria better at making energy. And what mitochondria do that most people don't know. They actually have something called quorum sensing, which is the same algorithm that we use in some of the more advanced, like ethereum and some of the bitcoin stuff where, like, how do we, how do we know that we can trust this? And how do you have all these distributed things all kind of voting. They do that and they can actually move around, they have a little shuttle, like little elevators inside Neurons where they can move. Oh, we gotta have another power plant over here. Let's move it over here. So it only makes sense they move around inside the body. And when you're using red light and you're actually getting more mitochondria energy or better functioning mitochondria, which is another word for less chronic inflammation. Those, those are like flip sides of a coin. What you end up with is better performance at whatever system needed an upgrade. Because with the. But it has all these different levels of systems in it. And it very elegantly says, well, I don't have enough energy or enough nutrients, so I'm just going to take the least important one and knock it off. And then it'll slowly degrade. And as soon as you get enough energy back in, it's like, oh, I got enough. I'll make some testosterone. So. So, you know, guys, put the juv light on your balls and just watch what happens. It works. There's studies.

I'm glad, I'm really, really, really glad you said that because that's exactly what we educate, is think of it. And a good way to say it is too is like, think of what happens when you're cold. What does your body do to compensate? To keep your body in a homeostasis, you shiver to keep the body's core temperature up. Same thing when you're hot. What happens? You sweat. Your body will compensate. That's fine for a short period, but if you start going long stretches without, you know, without giving your body what it needs, it's going to compensate more and more and more. And that's when we tend to see more chronic inflammation creep in because the body's been compensating for so long that it's functioning. And that's kind of the last stuff it'll give out, right? So it's really interesting that I'm glad that you said that because it is all about balance. And I know that's kind of, I.

Don'T know, some people are like, well.

What does that even mean? Right? And even if you look at some of the research, even before COVID of how do you maintain a good immune system, what they'll tell you is a healthy, balanced lifestyle, right? But what the hell is that? You know what I mean?

My favorite thing, if you're like, oh, it's all about moderation, I'm like, talk to me about cyanide moderation. Some things are just bad for you, good for you. And some things. In fact, the reason I wrote Fastest Way is that fasting intermittent Fasting is good for you, but too much intermittent fasting is just like too much keto and it's just like too much plant based diet. Right? And there's one from, oh, just eat vegan. No, eat vegan for two weeks, but then have a goddamn grass fed steak and go in and out, in and out and you'll do much better. Right? So just because something's good doesn't mean more is better. And it's a balance. No, it's about cycles. Up, down, up, down, where the average moderate. But you do not want to fall for that, that thing about balance. What you want to fall for that thing is how do I make my cells better at making energy all the time, no matter what's happening in the world around you. And if you do that, you will be able to survive just about anything that comes your way. And you'll know you have enough energy to handle whatever life brings you. Even if it's not a virus, if it's, you know, a breakup, a car accident, doesn't matter. Like, do you have resilience or do you not? I think red light's a part of that.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, and it is, you know, you see, because it's natural in nature. I mean, if you took the sun away, the entire universe would be gone. Right. So that's just how important light is to everything. And you hit on just ambient how much that controls and can stimulate how we operate throughout the day. Light really controls almost everything. I mean it really does.

Yep. Light is a, it's a nutrient and it's as important as food. And right now most of us are just getting the corn syrup of lighting through our monitors. It's not a, it's not a good thing. Well, thank you for sharing your knowledge and your work with Joovv with everybody. Guys, you can follow Joovv Social here and I'm sure you guys have cool offers on there for everybody. And if you are not in the fasting challenge, I will touch on red light. And it almost certainly, at least in some of the Q and a fast this way.com and if you, if you do that right now, you can join 28,000 people doing a fasting challenge for free. I'm just teaching my book and if you haven't purchased fastest way.com, thank you. If you do it. If you would like to leave a review, I'd be even more grateful. And like I said, go to follow Jiv Social. It's right there in the Instagram thing at the top. So just go in there and click Joovv Social. Follow it and I'm sure that they'll share some good stuff with you.

Yeah, guys. And also if you're if you're interested in learning more, head to our website at Joovv.com J-O-O-V-V.com and while you're there, if you're interested in a red light therapy device, we are running a crazy sale right now that we've never discounted our products this much. We're running a closeout sale for our Generation two devices so you can save hundreds right now if you're interested in picking up a panel.

Awesome. I will see you later. Have an awesome well lit red day.

That's right. Thanks, Dave.

Bye.