In this Bulletproof Radio episode, host Dave Asprey interviews Connie Zack, co‑owner of Sunlighten, about the development and science of infrared sauna technology. The conversation begins with Connie’s personal motivation: her brother’s severe mercury toxicity and chronic fatigue were dramatically improved after using an infrared blanket and later a sauna, prompting her to investigate infrared therapy while working at Procter & Gamble. She and her husband left corporate jobs to create Sunlighten, filing patents and building an industry from scratch over two decades. Connie explains how infrared differs from traditional Finnish or Swedish saunas: instead of heating air, infrared delivers heat directly into the body via specific wavelengths, producing an internal warmth and distinct physiological responses. The discussion delves into the infrared spectrum—near, mid, and far infrared—detailing how each wavelength penetrates tissue, influences heat‑shock proteins, and offers varied health benefits. Throughout, she emphasizes the therapeutic potential of infrared for conditions like chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and toxin elimination, positioning it as a drug‑free, side‑effect‑free modality that can extend longevity. The interview also touches on the growth of the infrared market, Sunlighten’s product evolution, and the importance of delivering the right dose of infrared energy for maximal health impact.
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Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance. You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today we've got a live audience from the Upgrade Collective, my membership and mentorship group, where there are lots of people in community working on learning all of the stuff in all of my books, with coaches, instructor lectures, and all that fun kind of stuff. So when you're a member of the Upgrade Collective, by the way, go to our upgradecollective.com, you can actually be part of live audience, which means you get to hear the podcast before it's edited and before it goes out onto the airwaves. So early access and a chance to ask questions. At the end of the show today, the audience gets to ask a couple questions of our guest today who has a lot of experience with infrared, because, as you know, I've been an early light hacker, and infrared light is something that works very, very well. I started using it in the late 90s, believe it or not. And I've got a guest for you guys today named Connie Zach, who is a co owner of sunlighten, which is a sonic company that makes infrared light therapy stuff. And they've grown over the last two decades in order to make it a thing. So anytime I get a chance to interview someone who's been doing something for 20 years and has filed multiple patents in the space and all, this is where the learning comes from, where we go, okay, we're why is it this way versus someone's, oh, I heard infrared light was good. I made something in China and whatever else. So I like to go to the experts who created industries in order to really learn myself, and I like to be that person for a new industry. So, Connie, with no further introduction, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much, Dave. It's great to see you. I feel like I haven't seen you in so long. It's great to see your face.
It's funny because with COVID and all, you and I have gotten to know each other over the years at a variety of different events. And then all of a sudden, for the last 18 months, it's like, no face to face.
I know. So it's great to see you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to answer questions and to chat.
All right. 20 years ago, only weird people would have an infrared song. Of course, I'm raising my hand. I was a weird person. I had one that I was not very happy about, but there was almost nothing on the market. It was more than 20 years ago. And I mean, you've been a loud voice for a long time. You've been on Dr. Bras, talking about the doctors, even Oprah Winfrey. And I've yet to get on Oprah, although I have a picture with her once. That's about as far as I could get. And you've been in goop and all these things, but you got started because of chronic fatigue syndrome that your brother had. Tell me what infrared. Like, how did you get into this? Through chronic fatigue syndrome? Yeah.
So my brother was really, really sick, and this is, you know, in the 90s, and nothing worked. And he tried everything. And it was his dentist in St. Louis that recommended infrared and said, if you can somehow get that into your body, I've heard that maybe that can. You can through sweat, you can sweat out toxins. And the dentist thinks theory was that my brother had mercury trapped inside his body from his fillings in his mouth. And indeed, you know, that's what he did. He did. He tested himself. He did have high levels of mercury, so he had mercury toxicity. And he first started with an infrared blanket. There was just the smallest amount of benefit, but enough of an amount to say, hmm, maybe if I could find, like, a higher quantity, a higher amount, and actually sweat more, maybe there would be a difference. And so, you know, way back then, there was, like, as you said, there was nothing available, no information. But anyway, he purchased an infrared sauna, and it changed his life, and it saved his life. It, like, truly is like, there's not a lot of things that change or save your life, you know, and this is one of the things. And I was in St. Louis at the time, and I saw. I saw firsthand my brother's experience. I was working for Procter and Gamble on the pharmaceutical side. So I had access to all sorts of medical information. And I started doing research, intense research on infrared. And there was a lot of information, which I was shocked that. And the information was powerful, powerful, showing the benefits of infrared onto the body, especially back then, the heart, which is so important. I thought, gosh, if somebody could really investigate this. This. If they could really, you know, find a way to make it more effective and more efficient, because it took my brother a really long time to heal himself. I thought, you know, there has to be a better way to improve everything. And then they could put some science behind it and, you know, put some. Some meat behind it. This could be a game changer in this. You know, when the wellness field. And instead of doing pharmaceuticals, which is what I was, you know, I was managing a team this this is something that could actually cure, right? It could, really, without drugs and without side effects. And so that's. I mean, this. You know, that's how we got started. And I eventually left P and G and Aaron, my partner, my husband, you know, he was also at P and G, he left. And we jumped off a cliff and, you know, left our corporate. Great jobs, very safe. And to start an industry that nobody knew about. I mean, nobody really even were talking about saunas either. So just. I mean, it wasn't even like, you know, that wasn't a thing either. So, yeah, we just took it one customer at a time.
It. It's funny, back then, I didn't know what was going on with me, but I knew that I was biologically wrecked. I think I'd been diagnosed with chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia or a bunch of other stuff. But I had mercury, I had mold for sure, which oftentimes goes with mercury. And they had all kinds of other stuff going on and definitely got a lot of benefits from this thing that no one had ever heard of. And, like, what's that in your living room, right? Oh, it's a sauna. And they're kind of like, what are you, Swedish or something? It's not even the same kind of thing as a normal hot sauna. What's the difference between traditional Finnish or Swedish or Norwegian kind of, you know, sit there with steam or heat and an infrared sauna? Because I think a lot of people listening might not know.
Yeah. So the difference essentially is the way the heat is delivered into the body is with infrared, the heat goes, especially if you get a high enough amount, which we can talk about. That's what makes enlightened special. That's what I've studied for all these years, is how to get the maximum in the body. So infrared. If you can get the maximum heat and you master the wavelength, then you can get it all into your body to change and transform your body. Traditional Finnish saunas have hot air and they heat the air and the wavelengths stay in the air, so you're still hot because you're hot if your air is hot, right. Like, if it's a hot day, you're still hot, but the wavelength stays in the air. So the healing properties that actually transform the cells like that is it stays in. In the air. And the hotter the wavelength is, the shorter the wavelength is. And. And the harder it is to get into the body, the cooler the wavelength, the longer it is, the easier it is to get into the body. And sunlight and has mastered the maximum amount of long wavelengths, far infrared specifically, to get into the body. So that's essentially like when you walk into a finished sauna, like to make it really simple. Sometimes you're like, oh my God, that's hot. Right. Because you're feeling the air, the heat and the air. When you walk into a sunlight and infrared, there's no, it's warm and it actually, once you start to sit there, you start to feel hot from the inside. And you start, you know, your heart rate starts going, but it's not this oppressive like gasping feeling. That is different. So they're two completely different experiences.
It's sort of like if you go into the shade on a really hot day, you're still really hot. But if on a cool day you go into the sun and the sun warms you up, it's a very different feeling. And it turns out there's different biological effects from it.
Correct.
So it's not just about heat, it's how does heat delivered, Is it through convection, through conduction? And what we've figured out over the last 20, 30 years is that heat's generally good for you because you heat shock protein. But the delivery method of the heat really seems to make a difference. And I feel very different if I go into traditional wood fired sauna and there's some hot steam versus if you're actually getting an infrared dose because. Presumably because it penetrates deeper.
Correct.
Since the dawn of infrared saunas, we've talked about these different wavelengths. And I want people who listen to this to sort of think about we have fats and we have carbs and we have protein. They're all food. Right. At least some forms of those are food, but they do different things. And you look at a spectrum of light, red light does something different than green light or blue light or yellow light. Right.
And.
Or the whole spectrum of this. And when we're dealing with infrared, you can't see any of it, but it has similar spectrums like those colors or like the types of foods. And the way the industry breaks them down now is that there's near infrared, mid infrared and far infrared.
Correct.
Can you walk me through? Let's start first with near infrared. What is that?
Yep.
And then like kind of give me the pros and cons of each one of those. So near infrared.
Yeah, Yep. So near infrared is the shortest wavelength. It's called near because it's the closest to the sun. So in a perfect world, if you were like just delivering near infrared.
