In this Bulletproof Radio episode, host Dave Asprey introduces kava, a traditional South‑Pacific plant drink, and interviews guest Cameron George, who has personally used kava to address a chronic sleep issue. The conversation covers kava’s botanical identity (Piper methysticum), its millennia‑old cultural role as a stress‑relieving, non‑addictive social beverage in Vanuatu, Fiji, and surrounding islands, and how it is consumed in kava bars as an alternative to alcohol. George and Asprey compare kava’s mild psychoactive profile to alcohol, cannabis, and classic psychedelics, emphasizing its ability to promote a calm, alpha‑state of focus without impairing motor skills. Asprey shares a detailed anecdote about a night of intense writing where omission of his “Kavaplex” oil led to markedly reduced REM sleep, illustrating kava’s impact on sleep architecture and overall cognitive performance. The dialogue also touches on safety misconceptions, the importance of product quality (root vs. extract, oil formulations), and the broader resurgence of plant medicines. George’s sponsorship of the show and a special listener discount are mentioned, framing kava as an affordable, evidence‑backed supplement poised to become the next mainstream wellness compound akin to CBD.
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Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance. You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's show is going to be interesting, at least it will be if you've never heard of a compound called kava. I've covered so many of Mother Nature's. I'm going to call them medicinal plants on the show. Whether I've talked about my ayahuasca experience a long time ago or the amazing powers of coffee as a superfood, or even nicotine, where you heard from Dr. Nicotine about what it can do and you realize that certain plant compounds do stuff for people. And CBD oil and cannabis and things like that are one of the latest things. And of course, we'll see the medicinal mushrooms are just about to be legalized in a lot of the country. So what about kava? Kava's been out there for a long time, and it's something that is mood boosting, something that I have played with over the years, but I had kind of written off because of concerns that I had about safety that it turns out were warranted but aren't warranted by real kava. And I also just could never feel an effect. And I finally found some stuff that worked for me where I could quantifiably see a difference in my sleep quality from it. And I said, all right, this isn't a fad. I was kind of concerned. It was one of those, oh, it's exotic and it doesn't do anything. And I realized it absolutely does do something. So I found a guest who decided to. And thank you for this. Cameron decided to sponsor the show to help get the message out about it, which is something that I'm grateful for, and to offer a special to you guys listening so you can save some money. You listen to the show, you save some money if you want to try it, because knowledge that's expensive to implement isn't as useful as knowledge that's more affordable to implement. And I think this is worth your time and attention. With no further ado, Cameron, welcome to the show.
Dave, I'm so glad to be here. It's an honor. Thanks so much for having me.
Cameron, you are one of those guys kind of like me who said, all right, I have a personal health issue that's really vexing, that's tweaking on me. You found something that really worked and you said, I'm going to solve some problems in the industry. I'm going to make something that I couldn't buy, and I'm going to talk about it relentlessly because I think it's worthy. And so because of your deep research and your personal experience with it, you've kind of hit the level to come onto the show where we can go deep on kava and the brain and all this. And let's get started. First, just tell me what is kava? And then I want to hear about how you found it. But for people who've never heard of this, like kaba. Kaba what? So what is kava?
So kava, essentially it's a stress relieving drink.
So what is kava?
Traditional kava is a stress relieving drink that's made from the roots of a small shrub that grows in islands in the South Pacific called Piper methysticum. And the word actually means intoxicating pepper. But it's been used in these island chains, mainly places like Fiji and an island chain called Vanuatu that's right next to Fiji is actually the home of where kava was first traced back to. You can find it Hawaii and Tonga, and you can also find in places like Samoa and Papua New Guinea. It's all over the South Pacific, but exclusively grows in the South Pacific, but it's been used there for over 3,000 years, sort of as a social enhancing, anxiety relieving, sort of like alcohol alternative. Of course, when it was first started, they weren't even using alcohol, of course, but you know, it's mainly used for, you know, enhancing mood, relaxation, mental clarity. Those are the most tangible effects. But whenever you actually start to dive into the scientific literature and, and you start to dive into some of the anthropological accounts and talk to the indigenous people, you realize that just like most of these medicinal plant medicines that are now getting their second day, in the middle of this plant renaissance that we're kind of in the middle of, there's multi therapeutic action because you're talking about a living organism that has all of these different mechanisms that work at all different levels of human biology.
So traditionally, when you go back in time, kava, was it like a ceremonial thing? Was it a nightcap? Was it kind of a daily thing? Like, how did it fit into island life?
Yeah, exactly. So kava is actually, it may be the most valuable substance in all of, you know, in the whole culture. When it comes to, like the cultures of Vanuatu and even Fiji, it's Vanuatu's number one export. And they use it in almost every context imaginable. So they drink it like we drink coffee, and they drink it like we drink alcohol, except they prefer it, of course, over alcohol. There are regular bars in the islands, but there's about 20 times more kava bars in the islands because they prefer it, because they can maintain their sobriety and they don't feel as though it makes them, you know, puts them into an altered state or makes them a different person. And there's no addiction and all these things that are associated with it. But it's mainly used for weddings, funerals, spiritual ceremonies, social gatherings, virtually every single context where, you know, individuals are coming together and trying to connect and trying to experience sort of more of an empathetic, you know, connection between one another and sort of really explore themselves and explore others. Because there are properties to kava that make it amazing for doing that while not compromising your fine motor skills or sort of leading to drunkenness in any of these things. So it's said in the islands that a man who drinks alcohol becomes a beast, but a man who drinks kava becomes more of who he really is. So it's really seen. It elicits sort of a kind of state of calm, enhanced focus. So it's like an enhanced state of sobriety. And that calm focus is kind of like an alpha state that happens to be the prime state for learning and concentration and getting into a state of introspective and creative thinking. So it's really a substance to these people in the islands.
So it's not going to make you trip balls. You're going to say, using it spiritually. It's not like I smoked a lot of pot and I'm kind of lit. I've never experienced that even from higher dose kava. But is that a thing?
Absolutely. Well, no. Okay, so. So the amazing thing about kava, out of all I've. I've experimented and had pretty extensive experiences with almost every major psychoactive plant substance from the really heavy psychedelics. I've done sessions with ayahuasca, you know, with, you know, psilocybin and LSD and all these kind of things. And of course, with cannabis medically, of course, and especially whenever I was younger and stuff. Kava fits in a category of its own. I think there's a lot of wisdom in the fact, and the indigenous people know this because they have more powerful plant medicines like psilocybin, mushrooms and Vanuatu and things. But they choose kava as their sort of main psychoactive that they embrace in their culture, because I think there's wisdom in the understanding that the best medicine is not necessarily the one that hits you over the head or turns your whole world upside down immediately, but the One that can be taken regularly and be slowly integrated, and you can continue to get cumulative benefit over a long period of time. So kava does have minor psychedelic properties, which we can get to a little bit later in more depth. But it has properties that allow you to experience a hint of that state. Very similar to dosing, actually, but without a lot of the legal issues. And you maintain your sobriety. It's sort of enhanced state of sobriety introspectively.
Okay, so you're not really going to be tripping, but you do feel relaxed, correct?
Yes.
That'S what I experienced. I've never even entered a profound alpha state that I'm aware of from it. And I know what alpha feels like because of all the neurofeedback training that I do at 40 years of Zen and all. But I do notice really profound effects on my sleep. For instance, I'm in the late stages of cranking out my new book and I go through this two year kind of creative process where you're building a skeleton and then you build kind of the muscles and the connective tissue, and then you do the final step where it's like you put the skin on it and you make sure every word is where it needs to be. So last night, against all of my sleep hacking advice, I stayed up till 4 and I do this consciously. And I've got all the red lighting on, so I'm not really breaking my sleep. And I. So I've actually been doing this for almost a week straight where I'm just like doing 30, 40 pages of just careful word examination, rewriting, adding a reference, and just making as perfect as I know how. Last night I forgot to take my true kava. I went to bed at 4 and I take a handful of sleep stuff. And this morning I woke up and I looked at my aura ring and I was like, oh, that's weird. My REM sleep wasn't nearly what I thought it would be. I still slept six hours. I just shifted my sleep later, which should have given me more REM sleep. And my deep sleep was just fine because I controlled my light. But my dream stuff wasn't where I wanted it to be. It was only like 40 minutes, guys. I slept five hours last night. And I'm like, it was only 40 minutes. That kind of kills most people. But I should have had an hour and 20 minutes. And I think it's because I didn't take the trucava. That was the one variable there. And I've noticed that in other times. So even under extreme sleep things. It's part of the sleep hacking that works. Is that from Alpha, or is that from something else?
Okay, so it's important to note too, because what you've been using is the oil. Correct? You've been using the Kavaplex, right?
