Mind Reprogramming: Are There Other Versions of Us? | Bizzie Gold

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Izzy. Welcome to the Human Upgrade. Why is my brain a filthy liar?

Every single one of us has a pattern of self deception that keeps us stuck in repetitive cycles. Can you think of a couple repetitive cycles that you've experienced throughout your life, Dave?

Oh, very, very many. It's funny, one of the quotes you just reminded me of that I said in some conference was that my powers of self deception are leg and doing neurofeedback, where you kind of have a lie detector to say, well, is what I'm saying true or not? The lies we tell ourselves invisibly are insane.

They are. And they can be both positive and negatively skewed. So perhaps we want to take a little dive into what self deception is and then how to determine what's positive or negative and how that can impact the trajectory of our life.

Wow, that was a great way of just asking yourself a question. Yes, let's do that.

Great. So with positive self deception, these are things that in my opinion, many pro athletes or extreme athletes may experience where you or I may look at a cliff and we say, you know, that's not a risk I want to take today. I don't think my body is built for that. I haven't trained for that. And an extreme athlete may look at that and think, send it. I got this. Do they have it? Do they have the skills? Have they spent enough time in the gym building the muscles? Having been an athlete myself in the pro skiing world, I can attest many of them are taking bong rips and they are not training in the gym. Okay, so is that positive self deception, that they can look at it and say, I got that. Send it. Yes. But we know that when we believe something to be true, we're more likely to experience that as the reality. So some forms of positive self deception lead people to land tricks or skills that they probably don't actually have the training to land. But for some of us, they lead us into traps that are very frustrating. I'll speak from my personal example. One of my areas of positive self deception is I think I can figure everything out. And of course, even as I say that, there's a little part of my brain that says, yeah, but you pretty much do. But at what cost? What do I have to sacrifice to figure it all out? And I think these are the areas where we. We start to bargain and justify in a little background channel that many of us are not focused on or we're not aware of in the moment. So we end up bargaining and we deceive ourselves into maybe taking on too much or taking on tasks or jobs that shouldn't be ours. And then of course, we've got the negative side. We can convince ourselves that someone is an abuser that may not be. We could convince ourselves that a situation is not safe when perhaps we're the ones that are adding hyper vigilance and anticipation to the scenario and we're not safe.

Does this tie into the Dunning Kruger effect?

It certainly can.

So this is the idea where 80% of apparently men in a study said, oh yeah, I could land the Boeing 747 if the pilot's unconscious. And that's probably not true. And it's because we don't know what we don't know. Or is this something different, like we know we don't know it and we just kind of gloss it over with our subconscious?

I think what you're describing is absolutely something that has been studied and observed to be true. But again, let's use the Boeing example. We'll never know, Right? They believe that they could. When push comes to shove, could they land the plane? I think there's enough science to back that by believing they could, they technically would be more likely to pull it off, but we'll never know.

I think I could, but that's because I have Deepseek loaded on my laptop and I would just sit it there and by deep seek, which button do I push? So I would just bring a cheater. So maybe I would.

So if the plane's ever going down and I'm on it with the EVAs, where you're like, we're gonna be fine or not or not, but if I.

Fail, I won't know.

Yeah. I mean, well, at least maybe we'll have fun on the way down.

Right.

So when we think about the way self deception operates in our mind, I like to think of it like putting on a lens of glass. Right. So you've got glasses on your glasses. Lenses are colored. So it kind of messes with this analogy a little bit because you're pretty clear that you're wearing glasses. But the average person, they've spent so many years of their life in this same developing pattern of self deception that they don't realize they're wearing glasses. They think they're just seeing the world.

Yes.

So when we start to notice the trends or the patterns in self deception, we can start to see what went into the lens of glass. And really, self deception is entirely an input equals output. Formula, early childhood inputs, repetitive, adversely perceived. And adversely perceived is important here because when you come into the world a child, you're not yet jaded, you're not hardened. You can't look at, at maybe mom's reaction this time and say, oh well, that wasn't as bad as last time. Because everything is brand new. Children are inherently innocent, they're curious, they want to explore their world, their hearts are wide open, right? They're not hardened yet. So it doesn't take much for a child to perceive trauma. And I think that's something that goes overlooked in most cases. And I think especially over the last five, six years, the term trauma is thrown around, I think in a variety of ways that are not doing it justice. And really each one of us has early childhood trauma. And I know that they've done study on aces and adverse childhood experiences. The reality is we all have that. There are a variety of levels to that, but it's all ultimately personal perception. So I could experience something that we could all say is objectively traumatic, the same way that you might experience something that someone might say is not meeting the standard, their criteria of objectively traumatic. So if we look at the early childhood experience like a block of uncarved wood. So think of a soft block of wood. Grab that in your head everything that that child experiences in their world. A facial expression on dad, a fight between mom and dad, handing your parents a picture that you drew and expecting them to know what it is. And they're like, what is it, a dinosaur? And you're like, no, it's a tree. I'm a terrible, I'm a terrible artist, right? Something that small, the. Those all start to take carvings away at this soft block of wood. These carvings are what start to shape our lens of glass with how we see the world. And what's very important to remember here is that a child is not thinking the way you or I would think. Now.

They can't, right?

They can't. They don't have the ability. So they're formulating a belief about their world that is turning into a formula that our brain will run over and over again based on early childhood knowledge. So they are jumping to conclusions that are probably not logical. They are trying to see from a more adult perspective without the life experience to properly inform their definition. So most of us are operating in the world like a 5 to 8 year old, not realizing that our brain is trying to kind of skew everything that we're seeing, experiencing by that five to eight year old perception. When we look at self deception, these are early childhood rules that we created and now are, you know, I'm about to turn 40, my 40 year old eyes are looking through this distortion. So to me when I look at them like, yeah, I'm thinking about it like a 40 year old. But no matter what, as soon as our sight goes through that lens, everything's going to get slightly distorted, slightly blurry. Our preferences and the things we think we want to do and we think make us feel safe will actually lead us into the very traps likely that were part of the early childhood formula that we created.

Do people get triggered when you say that?

Absolutely. Got some good stories about that one.

I would have been one of those. In my 20s I was kind of a hyper rationalist computer science guy. I had Asperger's syndrome and I was absolutely convinced that the world was logical and rational and people were irrational and emotional and that was the problem with humans. And then I went through some personal development kind of things and was like, oh my God, there's all this emotional garbage signal from the neck down. And I'm going to have to sort through all that because I never did as a kid. And I found out that I was getting kicked into sympathetic or fight or flight like hundreds of times a day by just random stuff in the world around me with no knowledge or awareness or consent. I was like, I got to unpack all this. And that's led to a lot of the like the spiritual and the emotional sides of the biohacking things. And I would just say everything you said is true and I would have reacted to the idea of trauma because part of being safe, especially as a guy is like, I can handle this, like I'm invulnerable, right? Nothing can hurt me because not then I'll be safe. Which is really self deception, right? Because of course something, you know, if a safe falls on your head like it does in the cartoons, I'm pretty sure you're going to get hurt. Realizing that those early traumas, maybe it was like a really big thing, but like you said it, all it means is you were little and you felt unsafe. And then your defense system, I call it the MEAT operating system in my work it said, oh, next time something matches that pattern without a lot of context, which, well then you should be ready for danger. And if you have enough times where you didn't feel emotionally safe or physically safe or any of those things, they are going to color your reality, right? And then the idea that you put about a filter, well we are rational adults. Unfortunately, if you're acting rationally on a world that was painted by an irrational system, that's where we get all this garbage. So what's the way out of this trap? Because apparently all humans have it.

There's so many ways out of it. And I do want to touch on something that you were just mentioning about how you respond. What did you say? Your meat. Meet response.

Operating system.

Meet operating system. Each person has a unique way that they respond to the perception of danger or the feeling of being unsafe. In my work, I've actually challenged that. Safety is actually everyone's core issue. I think there are three distinct issues, and then that's actually part of what changes someone's brain pattern type. So if I may, is it okay if I kind of. I'll. I'll layer all these, and then I want to make sure we hit the emotional addiction cycle, because I think that's very important. So I'll. I'll circle back to that one. So let's go back to this analogy of uncarved block of wood. Okay. I believe that we have certain lessons that we have to learn here in this life. And they build sequentially. So it's like you can't skip to lesson three if you didn't pass lesson one. I see lesson one as believing that you have a fundamental right to exist in a human body in your meat suit. Wow. So this very first lesson is, I am a human, and I have a right to exist. Maybe I'm not safe. Maybe my parents suck and I can't trust them, but I am, and I have a right to exist. And if you think about it, because I work with severely traumatized individuals, I work with survivors of sra, There are quite a few people who don't believe that.

What is an sra?

Satanic ritual abuse.

Okay, got it. Yeah. Teal Swan was on talking about that a while ago. So. Okay, so you're going to the side notes.

Things so much more prevalent than people want to believe it is. But that's a side note. That's the first step is we have to actually experience an environment that allows us to believe we have a right to exist. And when there is severe trauma or neglect or starvation or severe drug use that has basically led a child to have to fend for themselves in terms of very basic needs, that is most likely to be the result of an output like that.

What percentage of people have I don't have a right to exist as their court?

Less than 5%.

Okay, so this is unusual.

Unusual this brain pattern type, I've worked with incarcerated populations. This brain pattern type is significantly higher when you're in incarcerated populations. But out in general population it's very statistically low.

Is it correlated with ADHD or sociopathy or autism or bipolar or anything like that?

Interestingly, no. Those ones are all correlated with something else. So in my work I teach something called the brain pattern spectrum. So maybe before I go into the definitions, let's all have a working visual, a very visual person.

Oh yeah.

Okay, so imagine a, a scale that is divided in half, okay. And you can hash it out, let's say 20 clicks to the left, 20 clicks to the right. Okay. So if I were to start in the middle and I were to walk to the left, every click that I go to the left, I have more self trust.

Okay.

I am more situationally aware. Right. So these things are all going to increase at the same time. I'm more hyper independent. I prefer work and career and purpose driven things over relationships or at a minimum find them easier, more peaceful. Okay. So it's not that they don't desire relationships, but relationships tend to be more fraught with struggle than career or purpose driven things. If you were to imagine those things increase all the way out to the farthest left side where you had extreme situational awareness and extreme self trust, what do you think would occur?

You'd be hyper vigilant and probably want to be a Navy SEAL or something.

You'd probably be paranoid. You would be paranoid.

I could be.

But if you, if you got, if you got all the way to that farthest to the left side, you wouldn't be able to sort out what inputs you're gathering from your world that are worth acting on. It would become overwhelming.

That is actually autism.

You see where, you see what that.

Was in my childhood? Way too many inputs and not enough processing power.

So most, because obviously it's a spectrum, most high functioning autism is going to be on that far left side of the spectrum. Okay, so there are a few other cases that would be on the right side of the spectrum, but they are much smaller and they tend to be the types of autism spectrum that right now are coinciding with gender dysphoria.

Yeah, those run together.

Yes. So but this far left side, this is not that type.

So you can't be gender dysphoric right side and paranoid left side, or you'll just go to.

So you can. I have had clients that are gender dysphoric on the left side. But the autism overlay with gender Dysphoria tends to be a right side spectrum problem.

This is so interesting. I love these frameworks.

Within this left side spectrum, there's actually multiple patterns. If we look at the whole human population, my work has found that over 8 billion people actually only have five brain pattern types. So you can take everyone in humanity, distill them down to five brain pattern types. There are subtypes for from the five that help define where they would be in those hash marks. But ultimately there's five versions of human being. So we've got a variety of patterns. On this left hand side, my pattern, for example, I would be maybe like five clicks to the left.

Okay.

My assumption, based on everything I've seen of you, is you'd be split maybe five to six more clicks to the left than I am.

Okay.

But also, as you get toward the center, you become more spontaneous. So I'm very spontaneous and go with the flow, probably skewing toward chaotic if I don't do my pattern opposition work. As you move out to the left, as you can imagine, you become more and more and more controlled. You like to repeat certain things, you like to do things a very specific way. And when it comes to the biohacking community, you're gonna see a large chunk of those brain pattern types present. They like the routine. They want somebody to give them a stack. They want to know, if I do X, Y and Z, I'm going to get here. And they can keep repeating that over and over again.

Yeah, we like outcomes and things that work. Yeah.

As you get toward the middle of the spectrum, those are the people that are going to be like, yeah, I see value in that. And then we'll do it for two days. And then they're like, oh, crap, I forgot to do that. And it's been four days. Right. So that's me. I'm toward the middle, so I would expect you to be further out toward the left. If we now go back to the center and we fan out to the right hand side, all the things that we just talked about go the opposite direction. Situational awareness, every click you go down.

So they step in front of cars and get hit.

It's an interesting phenomenon. Their situational awareness is going down because their relational awareness is going up. So they're so fixated on what others think and feel that they're missing cues in their external world that you or I would pick up on in a second.

This is hilarious. The reason I'm laughing is, is I'm dating the founder of. We deepen. She's a relationship coach and is all about the relational stuff. And yeah, there's some things where I'm like, it's common sense that if you do this, that's going to happen. Like it is not common sense. It's so. And she. But relationally she'd do the same thing to me. So this is very enlightening.

So situational awareness goes down, relational awareness goes up. But when we think of relational awareness we're like, oh, that sounds great. This does not go well for these people. Okay. So as you become more situationally or de. Situationally unaware and relationally aware, you start to fixate on what others think and feel. Which is mostly assumptive because you can't know. You can't know, right? It's not like you or I could look at that and be like that light has red, orange and yellow. Because it's happening in objective reality. Right? We are situational, aware, we can see what light that is. But somebody who is on this right side spectrum, they're going to be thinking, does this guy think that I'm an idiot? Does this guy looking at the back of my shirt, not even realizing that there's a red light in front of me Because I'm so focused on what these people are thinking. As you can imagine, it's a rough way to go through life. We also see that career and purpose start to go down because their self trust also goes down. They're not self generating, they're looking to others to tell them what to do and get feedback from their external world about what I'm doing and if it's good enough or it's gonna get me where I wanna go. But unfortunately if you look at the right side people, these are rejection oriented patterns. The left side patterns are very much abandonment oriented. So we'll get back into kind of the core wounds. But essentially this is how it splits.

Are we just all fucked? Because like you're on either rejection or abandonment.

So here's the interesting thing. I have found over 11 years of studying the data that actually there's a very specific spot on the spectrum where quality of life is reported to be very high.

Where's that?

You're. You're pretty much in it. You and I are both in it. It's the left side. It's like the middle of the left side of the spectrum.

Oh cool. So I can tell my girlfriend that and judge her. Is that.

Well, no, but we, but, but when people. My husband is on the right side of the spectrum as well. And it is you know, when they say opposites attract, it very common that opposite brain pattern types will be drawn to each other. In my work, I call this symbiotic dysfunction. There's a certain way that your pattern needs to be triggered for you to fulfill your cycle. And it just so happens that when you do that, it is likely their trigger. So you get to just kind of roll over in this, you know, washing machine cycle of doom over and over again.

How fun.

If you were to date somebody who was very close to you in the spectrum, you'd probably friend zone each other. There wouldn't be like, oh, on paper we'd just be such a good couple. But I just, I don't know. There's something out there with chemistry because sadly for most of us, chemistry really is like one hair shy of toxicity in most cases, like just naturally. Many of us can work and have worked on overcoming that, but a lot of that feeling of chemistry is that brain pattern opposition actually where you're seeing things very distinctly differently.

Why are humans so fucked up?

That's. I feel like that answer goes way too spiritual probably for this conversation. That would be a whole other podcast episode.

Well, I don't know that we can dodge that. I mean, I just wrote heavily meditated. You mentioned wearing a meat suit and you mentioned in this life, I mean, are we talking like reincarnation and karma? Like, what's going on?

My perspective of those things has certainly iterated over the years. Early on in my career, when I was 19, I started off as a past life regression hypnotherapist.

Oh, cool.

So I spent many years very much believing that to be true. I had experiences right in front of me where people would go back to speaking in different languages and having access to information that there's no way they could have known. And that happened right out of the starting gate for me. From where I sit now and years of experience in being out in the field, I believe that it's much more likely to be that our DNA houses memory of ancestral lines and that some of us can pull those files off of the hard drive very easily. And when we click them, we experience it through our meat suit. So it feels like us. And perhaps it would have been part of our ancestral line. But from where I sit now, I would pretty much stake any amount of money in Vegas that it is coming from information housed in our DNA rather than it being an actual past lifetime.

This is so cool. When I do advanced work on forgiveness with clients at 40 Years of Zen, they go through and they Reset all the childhood traumas they can think of. And then they go in one of three directions after they've kind of cleaned out their hard drive of current stuff. Some people go to pre and perinatal, like stuff that happened in the womb. I certainly had a lot of work to do there. Some people go into their lineage and they're going through family trauma for generations, especially if there was World War II or if their, their family was forced immigrants from anywhere on the planet. And then another group of people goes into past life stuff that has nothing to do with their lineage. Right. Like I, the first time I did any of this, I had no belief in any of that. Anyone who would think of that stuff was nuts. And I'm like, why am I speaking like 14th century French? What is going on here? Like, this doesn't make any sense. It kind of blew my mind. Why do people go through those three different patterns if it's all DNA based? It feels like you're just doing lineage work, you're not doing past life work.

So who's to say that that 14th century French is not somehow in your lineage?

Could have been. Although a few other ones that probably aren't there in my 23andMe that I remembered.

So, I mean, here's an example. So this is gonna get weird for a second.

I'm all over the weird, man. I do hard science because it matches weird.

I have an awareness of multiple lifetimes that I've experienced that are not even human. So, you know, how does one process that? Again, I think when we talk about DNA, we're thinking strictly the strands of DNA that we learn about in science, in the physical sciences. I have studied and seen the way my kind of natural intuition works that there really are other spiritual strands of DNA that kind of wrap around that, that are not necessarily things that we're going to see within a, with a microscope where we're going to be able to break down with how we study epigenetics or, you know, DNA. There are aspects of us, whether it's from soul, spirit, spirit that could be from other places, other lands, other times. I think our perception of being time bound here in this physical world is extremely limited. And it's not what's real. I think 90% or more of what is actually happening around us gets filtered out by our brain.

Wow.

And that's overwhelming. I mean, we even know with the light spectrum, we're basically not even seeing the majority of the light spectrum. So I think there's so much more going on out in the world. But I do ultimately, and this is where I have to go back to. I do believe that we have a spirit that is distinct. And I don't think my spirit has been somebody else's spirit. And that's where I think I start to draw these lines where I can become aware of somebody else's spirit. And I think that because ultimately we are connected in some way. And I especially thinking of kind of maybe smaller groups of people. I've heard people use the word monad group before. Where it's like a smaller soul. Yeah, exactly. So I think within that smaller group, we might have more ability to access other people's memories. But ultimately, the more work I've done on it, I really feel very clear that I busygold and the spirit that exists in one place.

Well, I'm doing a very small event with the Dalai Lama later this year. So I'm going to ask him if I get a chance. Because this is. It's a. That's one perspective too. But this always fascinates me. And what you said that stands out the most is that we're throwing away 90% of what's in the world around us. And it may be a lot more than that even, because we know that time is fake. If you can prove it with biocentrism, with quantum physics. And so our perception of time allows us to exist in these meat bodies. But our bodies invent time so that we can experience reality. But time is provably not really there.

If you look at it from a biblical paradigm. And I think people tend to look at it from more of a legalist perspective, where I do not at all. I actually think that in particular the Old Testament is like one of the wildest spiritual books that's ever existed. If you read it with. I always like to use a visual of like. Imagine that you had a. What do you call it? Like a monocle.

Yeah, right.

Okay, so like let's all put on our monocle. But you have to have so many different lenses layered on top. So you've got like a monocle that looks like a telescope now. Right. You have to have knowledge of ancient civilizations. You have to have, I believe, knowledge of the Anunnaki. You have to understand the fallen angels. You have. There's so many different paradigms that you have to stack up on top of each other to now go read the Old Testament and be like, holy what? I think the answers to a lot of the questions we're talking about actually exist in that book. And I know that that can be triggering for some people who have been raised Christian and have been beaten over the head with it. And it brings up the religious trauma. I was raised Jewish in New York, and it was kind of just a free for all of liberalism. So I didn't have that experience. So I feel like when I was able to come to read the Old Testament and it wasn't carrying all that with me, I was able to just look at it. What I see is logically, and if you look at it logically, what happens at the time of the fall is that we actually become time bound and we lose our ability to see the whole light spectrum. We lose our ability to see multidimensionally. We become cast down and we're restricted to the third dimension in what I call the fourth dimensional sticky web, where it's like a time distortion, because some of us feel very time bound and then others of us don't. I am acutely aware of moments that I've hopped through time and come back again. So some of us have that malleability where we're not. I don't really feel as time bound, perhaps as someone in my family that thinks very concretely would. But I think ultimately that is all described in Genesis. And if we ask the question, why do we experience all this trauma? We can also basically answer the same question in the same book, which is when we came down to this world and we're kind of cast down and restricted here, we're basically experiencing the dark side of humanity. And we're given free will to see if we can transcend that. Can we be surrounded by darkness and not become the very darkness that we're surrounded by?

Wow. I didn't think we would go here. This is so fun. I don't think I talk about this much. So I studied computer science and AI and all that. I also was one class away from a minor in religious studies. And the reason is that it was the only way I could pad my gpa. Because how do you get. And how do you fail a religious studies class? You just make up a bunch of shit and then you can pass it, right? Sorry, no offense, scholars, but I learned a lot of things I didn't care or believe anything about, and it opened my eyes. But you can read the Bhagavad Gita, you can read ancient Tibetan stuff, you can go to ancient Chinese medicine, and you find these different stories through different lenses. But they all kind of seem like the same basic thing.

Same beans. They do match the same beings.

And clearly there were ancient civilizations Here on Earth before us. And to deny that, you have to really willfully ignore a lot of evidence. Graham Hancock's been on the show talking about that. So I sit with all this kind of churning around in there saying we, I think there are past lives, whether they're DNA based or DNA is antennae to something, I don't know. But I've experienced a lot of stuff you're saying and including, you know, are you really from around here? So let's go here. What percentage of people on Earth do you think are not originally from Earth?

I go with what I just was shown. 70%.

70% of people on Earth didn't come from here.

And I think it's a question where a lot of people that talk about evolution and I remember listening to this, I don't remember if it was like on Joe Rogan someone asked, I feel like Mel Gibson, something about evolution. He basically was like, I don't know why it's not true, but it's not true. Okay, so I always call this the 3% rule, where with a lot of scientific theory it remains hypothetical because there's always this like 3% where it's like we mostly have it, but I don't know, there's this 3% that we can't quite, we can't quite account for. And I feel that way about things like evolution. And I think if you go back. So now let's go back to the creation of Adam. This is where I'm going with it. Is it possible that when God, you know, breathes life and creates Adam, that breathing life was genetically modifying a pre existing humanoid that was here?

It's possible there's actually evidence in our genes that there was some editing going on back then there.

Yeah. So I think genetic modification of a being that maybe wasn't quite us is highly likely.

In my upcoming book and heavily meditated, I talk about different technologies and techniques to enter altered states of experiencing reality. Things like breath work. I talk about psychedelics, there's neurofeedback and lucid dreaming and all those kinds of things. And it feels like a lot of people have a lot of interest in those. And I'm interested in those because they let you go in and edit your trauma state so you can stop being reactive to stuff that you shouldn't be reactive to. But it sounds like there might be other uses for that. How do you use altered states to either learn things or to improve where you are on that spectrum you described?

I have experienced altered states my entire life and I do talk about this in my book as well. This is where all of my knowledge base has come from. I have never had a teacher. I've never researched this in a book. In fact, when you were saying that you are, you know, you finish every book you start. I was.

I used to. I don't anymore.

Yeah. Well, I was that kid that no matter what my parents did, they couldn't get me to read.

Oh, wow.

And I found it boring and restrictive. And here's the clincher is my whole life, if I want to know the answer to something, it's just there. So I could go into my tests and I could fill out an essay test and still get a passing grade to the point where I finally had a teacher in my high school career. I think I was in 10th grade. They sat me down and they were like, listen, I can't prove it, but I know you're not doing your homework. I know you're not reading your book. How are you passing my test? Because he prided himself on having really hard standards, and I've been able to do that my whole life.

What a gift.

And I think, as a child. Right. You can use that in a way that's reckless. I'm sure I certainly weaponized it and used it not for my good, but as I've aged and I've also grown, my emotional maturity and my emotional resilience, now, I can use that tool selectively and for the right reasons. Right. I don't use it to cut corners now. I use it to help people, and I use it to grab knowledge from the ether so that we can have it here in this physical plane. You know, I've had professors and doctors take my work, and at a certain point, this one particular instance stands out. This woman was wearing, like, cashmere sweater and pearls, was very uptight from mit. And at the end of one of my workshops, she pulls me off to the side and she's like, how do you know all of this? Like, how long do you. How long do you have? And she goes, I mean. And you could tell she was just, like, shook. And she just said, I know that all of this is real, but there's no way you could have learned this from anywhere, because no one teaches this. This doesn't exist. And then she looks at me and goes, are you an alien? A part of me wanted to be like, but, you know, at a certain point, people have a hard time with that sort of idea of exchange of information. But I do believe that it is something that every single one of us has the capacity for. But when we're so deeply in our wounded emotional state, we're not able to access that information freely. So as I've healed more and more now, there's just I. I can access that altered state anytime. I don't need to do anything to get there. It's just constant connection.

Thank you for talking about this, because a lot of people will think that you're crazy for saying that.

Access that altered state anytime. I don't need to do anything to get there. It's just constant connection.

There is a just knowing thing that is. It's a spirit. Thank you for talking about this, because a lot of people will think that you're crazy for saying that. Tool state. It's written about in multiple lineages. And just like you said, when you have emotional chaos, you cannot have space for intuition and intuitive knowing. And the more I've done the healing work and I've turned off all my triggers, you just have to be still and allow the knowledge to come in. You don't have to do the mental work. And I've put some things in my books. Five years later, a study comes out saying it. And I'm like, well, I kind of intuited that, right? And then I looked for supporting evidence. Actually, this intuition does pass muster. So let's try it. It worked, and let's write about it. An example, C8MCT oil, the stuff that you put in coffee. It works better than the other ones, right? And I intuited that, and then I tested it, and I wrote the reasons, and the study came out later. And so I. I would just want to say thank you for saying, yes, that's possible. And so for people who are saying, I don't know, I just knew it. We are taught not to trust our intuition. In fact, most of our emotional stuff as a kid is we know something intuitively or we feel something. We're like, don't do that. And then you get this giant emotional suppression of intuition. And the more healing you do, the more your intuition can just flow. And then, especially if you're in a healing profession like you are, and sometimes I am. Stuff happens. Do you know Neil Nathan? He was on the show recently. He's just an amazing mold doctor and healer, and he wrote a book about this, saying, I have to talk about this. When I was working in the er, all of a sudden, I would look at a patient and I would see, like, typed words above them saying what was wrong with them. And I thought I was crazy. And then I started talking with colleagues. And 20% of them had a similar thing where they just. No. So you walk into that old doctor and they just know and they can't tell you why because they didn't do it with their brain. They did it with something else. What is the something else we're using?

I would call it spiritual technology. And I think that's one of my biggest frustrations about where we are in our world right now. And I think it is very much a byproduct of the stronghold of big pharma, what I would call big academia. They restrict the research dollars that go to, I think, researching the right things. Because our spiritual technology is, I think, mostly misunderstood or unknown. And many of us are labeled as crazy or quacks for even talking about it. And if you look, I don't know if you watched or listened to any of the telepathy tapes. Did you listen to any of those?

I've heard about them. They're on my watch list, but I haven't seen them.

I was listening to them because my daughter has cerebral palsy and she's non verbal. And we've had the ability to communicate like this her whole life. So we listened to it together and it was a bonding experience for us. Just watching how something like the telepathy tapes was received by the mainstream. That's all we need to know about where we're still at. I mean, I'm grateful, Maha all the way. I'm so excited that we're at, I think this precipice of hopefully watching things truly change for the better. But I still am not hearing a lot of conversation about truly studying our spiritual technology. And I think the whole world of scientific studies and academia is very corrupted. And instead of it being something that safeguards, I think it gatekeeps and there's so much more that we are capable of as human beings that is completely unknown at this point. I think that's where we should be putting our research dollars. Personally, when we talked about intuition, you naturally acknowledge that self trust has to be present.

Yeah.

When the message comes forward, you have to take action on it. Going back to that brain pattern spectrum, there are certain people, left side spectrum people that are able to act on their intuition with less friction because they have self trust.

Yeah.

So as you can imagine, bolstering self trust for anyone listening that has children, bolstering self trust and self efficacy in your children. It's the most important thing you can do above and beyond anything else. I would take a child that trusts themselves, that is independent, over A child that's compliant any day of the week. A compliant child is a right side spectrum child, honestly. So when we think about intuition, there's so many people that conflate instinct and intuition together. And I think it's really important that people understand the distinction. And I think you articulated it beautifully when you were just kind of naturally talking about how you're. You healed and then allowed your intuition to kind of come forward. When we're in our brain pattern restricted perspective of the world, we're constantly responding to the world emotionally. And when we respond emotionally, our feelings are not based in objective truth. Our instinct is rooted in survival. It's rooted in how I keep myself safe in this formula that I know about my world. So it's very restrictive. And what will frequently happen is people will say, oh well, intuitively I just knew it wasn't the right thing because I think more often than not people try to pass off their instinct as intuition and use it to justify why they want us to keep themselves stuck in their pattern.

This is a higher order skill. And your ego, at least in my understanding of things and the way I teach, will try to give you things that feel like intuition and that is instinct or emotion. And it's discernment where you can feel the difference between the intuitive hit and the emotion. And the trigger is the intuition comes first and it's smaller than whatever comes next. And if you just have fine grained awareness to notice that and recognize that what comes next is likely not as real as the first thing, what's your practice for stepping into noticing that first thing?

So I teach this a little bit differently. So I have a framework that we call Eli and you can visualize it in a triangle. So for most of us, we experience some sort of stimulus and we naturally respond emotionally. In order to access intuition, I actually think we need a logical pattern interrupt. So that's the L. So E is emotion, L is logic, I is intuition. So I think ultimately where we all want to be responding from is intuition. Intuition is naturally going to be taking in context and nuance. We're feeling energy, we're very. To be intuitive you have to be extremely present. You cannot be present when you're reacting emotionally. So in my work I actually teach people how to interrupt their emotional responses with a very specific series of sequential logical questions that actually give you the same space to now listen to your intuition.

How do I do it?

Where you basically you've like pushed that part of you aside and you notice, oh, I already know my brain is going to go to this self deceptive pattern. It's going to trick me into this and this and this. So I already know what thoughts I have to combat with Eli questions to make room for my intuition to come forward and basically be able to step to the microphone and be like, hi, this is the answer. Let's think about it like this. With Eli questions, they need to be sequential and they need to force you into a binary answer of yes or no. So it is not an Eli question if you're able to answer anything other than yes or no. Because we need to back your brain pattern into a corner and expose the lies that it's telling us. Okay, so I like to use the example of, have you ever watched Suits? Okay, so you know Harvey Specter, okay, so I want everyone to think of their brain pattern when it's operating like Harvey Specter, okay? This like charismatic lawyer that's willing to play dirty and he always gets his man. And even when he's being bad, you're still rooting for him, right? Okay, so your brain pattern, what it believes to be true about the world, it knows all of your secrets, it knows all of your negative self talk and insecurities. Now make that brain pattern Harvey Specter. Is Harvey Specter going to use all of those to keep you stuck and keep you repeating the same loops over and over again? Yeah, and you're probably going to root for him. That's the saddest part, is we actually end up rooting for our own self destruction.

Yep.

And it's heartbreaking to watch. Now, have you seen the movie My Cousin Vinnie?

I love that the two Utes remember.

The very first public defender that they get. Okay, so behind closed doors, he seems great. What happens when he gets up to opening arguments, falls down, he just starts stuttering, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. That's all he gets out, and they both look at each other and they're like, we're screwed. We're definitely gonna get the death penalty. We're done. When we're thinking about how in every moment we're showing up, we have Harvey Spector, and then we have my cousin Vinnie, stuttering guy. Okay, we need our defense attorney that's actually gonna get us out of this pattern to be significantly better than stuttering my cousin Vinnie. To do that, we have to understand what arguments Harvey's going to try to pull out, and we have to know in what order he's going to try to present these arguments. Because our brain functions on systems of language. So your Car. I mean, maybe your car is electric. Is your car gas or electric?

I drive a Tonka toy Jeep that has nothing electric except the stereo.

Okay, so then this analogy works well for you, sir. Your car runs on gasoline, right? If it has no gas, it doesn't go. Our brain functions on systems of language. So everything we do we're scanning. Your shirt is black, your glasses are orange. That is red. You look pleased. You look content with this episode. Right? Our brain is generating a language structure. So even the example that you shared about the Doctor where you just saw, like, the typewriter text over it, that's how our brain makes sense of our world. It always turns it into language. That means in order to rewire, we have to dismantle the systems of language that our brain is generating to keep us stuck. Because our brain's not keeping us stuck on feelings. We're aware of the feelings more than we're aware of the language, because many of us have tuned it out. But we have to actually hack the language that our brain is using to keep us stuck.

Ooh, I love this. Okay.

This is the core of my work, is hacking the language to actually free the human.

One of the things that I've taught my kids and, and that I have stepped into over the last 15 or so years is integrity. In your word. From the four agreements, in my external words and in the voice in my head, I seek to be as 100% truthful as I can be. Doesn't mean I don't make mistakes. But it's to the point of if someone says, can you pick me up at the airport? I'm going to say, I am not going to pick you up at the airport. I'm not going to say I can't make it, because I actually can't. I could blow up this podcast, go pick someone up at the airport.

Right, but you're choosing that.

Yeah, And I'm not going to say I'll try, because if I. That doesn't mean anything. So I really work hard on with my internal voice, just never telling any lie, which creates this massive amount of free thought space because I have to track any bullshit I've told myself or anyone else. Is this radical truthfulness part of what you're doing or is it something else?

So this is actually quite different.

Okay.

Because each person on the spectrum, they have their own specific patterns of self deception. So the way to hack your brain is very different than the way to hack somebody else's brain. And in reality, in my opinion, your brain is already wired More for black and white truth. So it's actually less challenging for you to be truthful than it would for somebody else on the spectrum to step into being truthful because you're lying to yourself less than somebody else. So for you to overcome that is actually easier for you than somebody else on the spectrum. And same same with me.

It might be now, but where I started out, I was kind of raised where if you wanted something to be true, you just pretended like it was. And sometime in my mid-20s, I'm like, this is not a very functional way to create results. And so I had to kind of go through and reprogram myself to. To be more reality based. And then at a certain point, I recognized that I'm simultaneously irrational with the realm of emotions and intuition and rational and to not judge myself for either side. So simultaneously, I'm a computer meat robot, and I'm a spiritual being that does all sorts of airy fairy crap I don't understand. And they can both be present simultaneously. And I'm not going to die. But that was a lot of work. And I don't even know if I'm right. But that's the model that makes the most peace in me.

Typically the Asperger's type of presentation, they naturally see the world more black and white. So think about it from first perspective. We all go through an emotional addiction cycle that has three parts. We all start with fear. Some people have fear that already has an assumption that shame is going to be attached to it. But for the majority of us, it's just fear about 70%. We then move into our protective emotion split's about 50, 50. It's a 50, 50 shot that you've got anger as a protective emotion or anxiety as a protective emotion. We have the words that people are typically aware of, like fight, flight, freeze, fawn, flop. These all split this way, right? So an anxiety response would be the freeze or fawn. And then the anger responses would be flight or fight. Each one of these is going to have a different set of behavior components that go with it. And if you think about it like what I'm describing with the self deception pattern, you can see how these are going to start to chunk out over the brain pattern types. So as you're closer to the center of the spectrum, you're much more likely to have anxiety. As you move out to the farther sides of the spectrum, you're much more likely to have anger as a protective response. If you have anger as a protective response, most likely you're heading to Anxiety, and you're escalating motion when you've tried, and no matter what you try to do, things turned on you anyways. And if you started with anxiety, you're most likely trending toward anger as an escalating response. So every single one of us is going to kind of move through this cycle over and over and over again. Now, if you take that cycle and we think about what triggers us into our cycle, and each one of these brain pattern types is going to have a different set of triggers. Something that would trigger me might not trigger you, and vice versa. If we think about people that are on the right side of the spectrum, they have very distinct triggers from you or I. I don't naturally take things personally. Even if somebody is trying to hurt my feelings, I'm still dissecting and analyzing why it's a them problem. Okay. People on the right hand side, they're not going to do that. If I tell a joke that isn't about them, their brain is much more likely to make it about them. Or they're telling me that joke because it's really about me. All the people on the left, we're naturally thinking that it's probably everybody else's issue and not us problem. If you look on the right hand side, the opposite is true. People think that everything's about them when really it's probably about something external in the environment. Formulating Eli questions really becomes a science of timing the right question and anticipating where the person's brain is going to go next in the line of questioning. So before the brain can give you a pushback, you've already addressed it. We've bolstered the voice, We've bolstered how the defense attorney actually shows up because we, we know how to go toe to toe with the prosecutor now. And when we do this effectively in most client cases, for any given issue, I'd give them maybe a line of eight to 10 questions. We encourage clients that as soon as you feel a physical shift, you stop with questions. So, for example, a person might get to number four and they start laughing at themselves, and they're like, huh, okay, funny. I can't believe I would have actually done that a week ago. Then maybe the next time it happens, they get to question two, they laugh. So for some people, it's not laughing. For some people, it's that maybe their heart rate was elevated. Now they realize their heart rate's coming back down. We ask the client to disengage from the questions. Don't keep reading for good measure. Because we want to get a feel. What was the password for your brain? What phrase or key words actually made your brain let go and go. Okay, you got me. You win. This is ridiculous. We're not going to do this. And little by little, instead of a client having to white knuckle and willpower, which in my opinion does not work at all, we're walking the brain into a trap where the brain actually sees the error disengages and actually shows you the new choice. So it's. It's allowing you to choose without you having to force it, which is just not effective. And it's painstaking.

So you've created a structured way to hack the ego?

I have, yes.

That is badass.

Thank you.

Wow. Super impressive. I've spent a lot of time with electrodes on my head, watching what my brain and my body does physiologically with ego responses and going in and pushing buttons and done it with a lot of clients. And over the course of that and other things, you know, breath work and, you know, shamanic training and all the weird stuff that, that I've done, the voice in my head went away. I used to have like the meanest little in there. The shame and the judgment and the fear, and you know you can't do it and you know you're alone and all the. The core trauma stuff, and it just shut up. And it's very rare for me to have those voices in my head. And I've asked different guests this. Do you have voices in your head?

Almost never anymore, but I absolutely used to. And that's something that we would expect to go down significantly. Left side spectrum, less negative self talk and just less self talk in general. Right side spectrum patterns, significantly more intrusive thoughts and negative self talk.

Interesting. Dr. Daniel Amen, who's a good friend, I'm on his board of directors, calls them ants. Automatic negative thoughts. And you're saying people who are more on that left kind of logical side.

So to me, that would be something separate. Separate, because automatic negative thoughts, the subject matter would just be different. So left side spectrum, our automatic negative thoughts would be about something external or what's going to happen, anticipation. The right side, it will be about self. The right side spectrum patterns are very naturally oriented toward thinking about self.

So if you're on one side, you can say it's the I am not enough side. The other side is going to be like, the system is against me.

Maybe this is a good place to kind of wrap it up. So in the beginning, we talked about how that Very first core lesson that you have to learn is I'm a human being and I have a right to exist. After that, we need to learn that we feel safe in our environment. That means understanding the rules, understanding how to keep yourself safe, and understand how to abide by the rules. And as you can imagine, to do that you'd have to have parents that follow rules, which that doesn't happen very frequently. Okay, so if your parents are erratic or do one thing and then say another, or they're not on the same page, it doesn't take much for a child to perceive that they are not safe. Because if there is any sort of break in the structure and cadence and repetition of their world where they don't know how to operate and they stop trusting their parents, they get stuck there. So that very first wound creates what I call a chaos pattern. The second wound creates an abandonment pattern. Then if you perceive safety and you ultimately trust your parents and you trust that they are going to follow through on what they say, and you actually look to them as an authority, or you at least trust that they have your best interests at heart, then you actually try to seek love. Who am I and do you like me for who I am? That actually is what gets you stuck in the right side spectrum patterns. Which of all of the things that I've found interesting over the last 11 years of doing the work that I have, is the more sensitive, stable and loving. Your household is actually the worst outcome in terms of your brain pattern type.

That is dark. You have like loving, kind parents. And then you're going to be all externally validated and then your brain pattern won't work very well.

So there, there's so many ways to fix this though, and this is certainly something that we address in break method. I'm not telling people, go get divorced. If you can be in a stable, loving marriage, please do that. If you can keep your family together, please do that. But there's a caveat. Your kids still have to experience enough hardship in their life for them to build emotional resilience. They can't have life handed them on a silver platter. There have to be rules and structures. They have to bump into those structures and they have to fight you on those structures. Remember how I said I would take a kid that has self efficacy and pushes back over a compliant kid any day? My husband and I have a wonderful marriage. We have the best house ever. It pains me to leave every time I have to leave to travel for work because I just love being home so much. I Love my family, but I know what inputs I have to give my kids to make sure that they don't become self centered and think that everyone is thinking about them. So there are certain things that you can do in your environment to provide that stable, loving security while also allowing your kids to struggle. I told this story once and I could see some moms judging me like you did. What? And I think we miss opportunities at these young ages. So if someone's listening that has kids that are 2, 3, 4, prime ages, but by the time your kid is 5, their brain pattern is wired, that's it. You can do a lot if you're listening to this now to give them different inputs to get them back into the middle. But your kid's brain pattern is hardwired by 5. I like this example of when my daughter Harley was about one and a half, two, I was telling you that I had two back to backs. So we have Irish twins. And when there's lots of kids running around and then my daughter is special needs, there's just a lot going on. You can't give your sole focus to one child, right? So I notice from afar that my daughter has kind of gotten up on top of this play kitchen, right? A wooden play kitchen. And she's up pretty high and I'm watching her go up, not thinking anything of it. Okay? So a lot of parents, if they see their kid kind of up high on a kitchen place that when they've like just started walking, really, they might be like, oh my God, right? They want to race over, they want to get their kid down. I'm watching her from afar thinking, okay, she might need a little bit of my verbal cueing to navigate herself back down, but I'm not going to run over to her and save her. So lo and behold, she looks over at me when she realizes like, shit, I can't get down. And I say, Harley, are you, are you a little scared right now? And she's like, yeah. And she's like, mommy, help me. And I was like, nope, just where are your feet? Look at your feet. She looks at her feet, I'm like, where's the next best step? And she's freaking out, still reaching out for me. I was like, you gotta find that next step. If we can calmly support our child in being strategic and realizing, oh, I don't need mommy to come save me, I can get myself down from this kitchen, I got myself up here. We've actually embraced an opportunity to help our child build self efficacy and realize I can't trust everyone to come rescue me. I can rescue myself. I can do this. So then you've blended these two together. We've got this loving, stable, supportive household where people are happy, there's music playing, but you know that mommy or daddy's not just gonna come rescue you if you get a bad grade on something. They're not just gonna be like, oh, everybody's the winner, honey. If we think about where we've gotten to as a culture, we've gotten here because I think of a radical shift from us being raised by the neighborhood and parents being like, don't come in until the sun goes down. Fend for yourselves like food. I don't know, figure it out at someone else's house. We went from that to overly coddling attachment parenting where you don't ever separate from your child. I have worked significantly with teen communities where homeschooling and attachment parenting styles are prevalent. That is a really hard brain pattern to overcome as an adult. And I know that's not the thing people really want to hear, but it can be hard.

In the last five years, a lot of people have said, we're doing this to you for your own safety. Which kind of pisses me off. And it's. The new coffee is called danger Coffee. I'm not trying to sell it. It's just the logo or the reason behind it is, well, who knows what you might do if you choose danger.

Yeah.

And so for me, teaching my kids to say, yeah, that's scary, and they were allowed at a very young age to climb like 20 foot tall trees and like, man, if they fall, it's really going to hurt. I'm like, and gravity is a good teacher. And they're made out of rubber. And if it's really dangerous, I'm going to tell them. And so just allowing kids to experience pain, not damage and not extreme trauma, but just, wow, if you do that, it hurts. Like, that's how you learn to walk because you keep falling over and it's not that pleasant. And so for me, calming my nervous system when the kids were at some amount of risk, but not too much risk has been a part of parenting.

The separation is key though too, because the, like, the pain, risk, danger, that's one set of inputs. But you need your children to know how to be separate of you and to navigate what it feels like to not be able to control proximity or closeness. That's one of the other factors that correlates is when a child is able to dictate through holding emotionally hostage how the parent manages distance with them. There's a brain pattern for that as an adult and it's not a pretty one.

One of the tricks that I used is when they were about 2 to 3, they have this idea like they want to run away at a mall or a farmer's market or something. They want to go far enough until they feel uncertain and they're like. And I'm like, you can go, I'll still be here. You can go, you can come back, whatever, it's fine, I'm watching them. So then they start with their own autonomy, deciding that it's safe to go and safe to come back versus oh no, you're going to get lost. And sometimes I would hide from them when they would turn around just to.

See, oh, see, you give your kids.

All the right inputs and, and so I want you to like judge me for what I'm doing wrong so we can make this a learning moment. That was one thing. The other thing is whenever I'm teaching my kids, even to this day, I always throw in a little bit of.

Bullshit to see if they can sniff it out. Oh, I like that.

Right. And it's so fun because I think I'm, I'm doing my best to make them not programmable. But I'll tell them, well, here's how gravity works and there's this and there's that. And I'll throw in just one little thing that doesn't make sense. And when they're five, it's so cute because it's obvious. But now they're just like, it's very hard to get anything past them. Is this Am I so. Yeah, you're distrust or is this.

No, I think, I think you're doing it exactly right. So when you end up on the right side of the spectrum, you are lacking discernment because as soon as you perceive hierarchy, you're willing to believe what somebody tells you. And it's, it's essentially built off of the pattern of trusting my parents. So if my parents wouldn't lie to me, then you wouldn't lie to me either. So unfortunately your self trust goes down, but you look to others as the source of information, so then you can be easily taken advantage of or manipulated. So this is something that I think is actually brilliant because ultimately you want your kids to not trust everybody. I think trying to get like the, that's where I was going with the compliance thing. Just kind of beating into your children that you always respect adults and you know, you don't add others as the source of information so then you can be easily taken advantage of or manipulated. So this is something that I think is actually brilliant because ultimately you want your kids to not trust everybody. I think trying to get like the, that's where I was going with the compliance thing. We're push back. Politeness is always the most important. That's bullshit. That's going to cause a problem when that child gets older and they become an adult. Kids need to be able to push back and say that doesn't sound right. Like that doesn't sound like what my mommy said. Just kind of beating into your children that you always respect adults and you know, you don't ever push back. Politeness is always the most important. That's bullshit that's going to cause a problem when that child gets older and they become an adult. Kids need to be able to push back and say that doesn't sound right. Like that doesn't sound like what my mommy said.