In this Bulletproof Radio episode, host Dave Asprey opens with a discussion of recent Pew Research poll results showing that a majority of Americans support genetic engineering for health purposes, such as disease prevention in humans and using engineered mosquitoes to curb disease spread, while expressing reservations about enhancements, de‑extinction, and altering nature. Asprey uses this to frame a broader point about building the future consciously. He then introduces guest Ryan Holiday, a bestselling author known for popularizing Stoic philosophy and for books like Ego Is the Enemy and The Obstacle Is the Way. The conversation quickly moves to Holiday’s early career: dropping out of UC at 19, taking a research assistant role with Robert Greene, working briefly for Tucker Max and at a talent agency, and choosing real‑world writing experience over a traditional college path. Holiday reflects on his parents’ disapproval, the modest salary he earned, and his rational‑yet‑gut‑driven decision to pursue writing directly. Asprey and Holiday also touch on the influence of mentors like Greene and the importance of conscious decision‑making in shaping one’s life and work.
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Foreign.
A state of high performance.
You're listening to Bulletproof radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day is that most Americans now think it's okay to tinker with your genes. That is, if it's done in the interest of human health. The Pew Research center just conducted a poll and found most Americans are okay with genetic engineering for many types of animals and humans if it's going to prevent a disease or it's going to make us healthy. And most Americans even think it's okay to tweak a baby's genes, but not to make the baby stronger, smarter, or faster, but only to prevent disease. I don't quite understand that entire mindset there, but people now say 70% of people are okay with preventing the spread of disease by reducing mosquitoes fertility. And can I just say this isn't in the study, but can we just get rid of those little bastards? They're just not worth it. All right. Sorry, I had to say that. And 57% of people are on board with engineering animals to be organ donors for humans. Apparently they haven't heard about stem cells yet. And a majority of respondents drew the line at tweaking animal to produce more nutritious meat or bringing back animals from extinction. Presumably because they all saw Jurassic Park. And of that group, 18% said species are extinct for a reason. As in they deserved it, not because we did it to them. 23% said it messes with nature or God's plan. And 14% said it's a waste of resources. And only 4% of people said they were afraid it would create a Jurassic park scenario in which the de extinct animals would run amok and kill people. Well, I gotta say, maybe it's time for us all to do a little bit of thinking about the world we want to build. Because we are building a different world right now. And we can either do it consciously or we can do it without conscience. And I can tell you what happens when you do things without being conscious of what you're doing or thinking ahead. And usually it's not better than it was before. Today's guest actually has nothing to do with Jurassic park or dinosaurs. I know I'm tricking you guys with my incredible art of foreshadowing in my show notes, but he. He actually has helped to take an almost extinct philosophy and reinvigorate it and introduce it into the wild. And that philosophy is called stoicism. I'm talking about none other than Ryan Holiday, who is a fantastic author. And as an Author. I mean, I have a lot of authors on here. I got to tell you, Ryan's head and shoulders are just seriously good writing. I don't miss any of his books, including ones you might not have heard of, that I'm going to tell you about. You might have seen Ego is the Enemy, the Obstacle is the Way, Trust me, I'm lying. Or the one that you should read called Perennial Cellar. And he discusses complex ideas that are very, very approachable. And you might have seen Conspiracy, his latest book where he actually dug deep with Peter Thiel and Gawker and what happened to Get Gawker Shut down with Hulk Hogan and all, which is just an eye opening book and has this amazing power which I think he got from Robert Greene, the guy who wrote 48 Laws of Power, to just look in and digest things. He's one of those guys I truly respect. I was super excited to get him on the show. Ryan, welcome.
Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
What did you think of that intro? Not like one you've had before, right?
It was very kind. It was very kind. I appreciate it.
It's all real. And man, there's so much that we're going to get to talk about today that's super cool. You started your professional career when you dropped out of College at age 19 from the University of California. And what did you do when you were 19?
Well, I had this opportunity to be a research assistant for Robert Greene, which as someone who wanted to be a writer was sort of, to me it was the equivalent of being drafted out of college and getting to leave and going straight into the pros. I worked for another author who I know, you know, Tucker Max. And then I also had a job at a talent agency. So I sort of had these three opportunities and it struck me one day that being able to do any three of them after college would have made college a success. So what the hell was I saying? What was I saying no to these things for? To stay in school, to hopefully get them to come back around, you know, after I had walked across the stage at graduation.
It's an unusual amount of wisdom for a 19 year old. I had a similar situation. I could have dropped out of college when I was about 19, actually maybe 20, and been one of the co founders of a company called Net creations that sold three years later for $250 million to one of the big Internet ad companies. And I didn't do it because like I'm supposed to get my degree. So you basically had something already in your mind or your psychology that said, I'm going to make that decision based on those things. Is that because you're pissed off at the world because you had good parents? What made you make that unusual call?
Well, my parents thought it was a terrible idea, so I can't give them credit. And it wasn't nearly as compelling as working at a company that was going to sell for $200 million. I remember at the talent agency, which was really sort of the only paid position of any seriousness, the salary was $30,000. And I remember thinking, what am I going to do with all this money? You know, it just sounded like so much to a college student. But really, really, I think what I was attracted to was just the idea of getting to do the work that I was reading about. Like, I. I read all of Robert Greene's books, and I thought he was this amazing writer. The idea that I could work for him and that, that might be a shortcut to where I wanted to end up, which was to write my own books. To me, the idea of. Of passing that. Passing on that to sit in a classroom and listen to a less successful writer tell me about how to be a writer just didn't make any sense.
Got it. So you're pretty rational about the whole thing.
And I was terrifying. I mean, I'm rational about it more in retrospect, I think there's probably some gut instincts there. But it was also certainly terrifying at the time. I mean, especially with my parents, you know, basically saying that I was throwing my life away.
Parents are. They'll often do that. I think if I'd have quit, I would have had the same conversation with mine. And having had Robert Greene on the show a while back as well, that book that you did the research for, 48 laws of power. I made 6 million SA.
