In this episode of the Human Upgrade podcast, host Dave Asprey interviews adventurer and neuro‑psychology enthusiast Akshay Nanavati about the nature of fear. Nanavati argues that fear originates from an ancient survival system whose primary goal is to protect the organism and, by extension, the tribe. While the ultimate evolutionary driver is fear of death, the emotion manifests in vastly different ways: a mundane social situation such as asking a woman out can provoke more anxiety than physically dangerous feats like training for an Antarctic expedition. He expands the discussion to a nascent “subcellular psychology,” suggesting that individual cells act as a collective consciousness that flags threats to the species’ continuity, which can explain phenomena like sexual performance anxiety. Nanavati also notes that extreme environments and military training can make fear feel addictive, yet he stresses that labeling fears as rational or irrational is unhelpful. Instead, he advocates a practice of disidentifying from fear, accepting it as a natural signal, and consciously choosing actions beyond the emotion, thereby moving toward inner peace. The conversation weaves personal anecdotes, evolutionary biology, neuroscience, and shamanic insights to illustrate how understanding fear’s roots can transform its impact on daily life.
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You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. You've lived these fearful experiences. We'll talk about some of the other stuff you've done, but you've also looked at the neuropsychology and neuroscience of fear and all. And ultimately, what I learned in the. The temples in Nepal and Tibet and even some of the shamanic studies that I've done, it's that, well, ultimately, all fear is just fear of death. It's fear of your meat dying. Do you believe that, given all you've experienced and all you know, or is there something else to the fear that we have?
I think if we dig deep into the evolutionary construct behind any kind of fear, that is what it sort of leads to, right? Because at the core, right, the. The brain is not concerned about our happiness and our well being. This archaic caveman, like, brain is concerned about our survival as its number one primary concern. So with that said, I think digging deep into the evolutionary construct of it, that is where it all leads to. But with that said, the fears will show up very differently. So as a very, very concrete example, like, the other day I reached out and I asked this girl out. Like, that, to me, was more scary than doing the things I do, which could literally kill me. I'm training to go to Antarctica, and my friends find it hilarious. They're like, dude, you do the most insane things. You've spent seven days in darkness. You run 24 hours, you're going to Antarctica, which could actually kill me. And I'm like, I got this. Asking a girl out on a date. Terrified, anxiety, like butterflies in my stomach. You know what I mean? So. And I understand, like, you still have that. I. I'm. I do. Like, I felt it when I reached out. Like, shooting a text message to a girl online is more scary. Like, I feel more fear than go knowing that I'm about to go to Antarctica in four weeks. It's absurd. And at the core, again, is where do we. So if we look, digging for that fear, right, what is it? Fear of rejection, which could mean being ousted from the tribe, which in evolutionary times means we're death, right? So at the core, that's what it leads to. But yet I'm. On a very practical level, I'm less scared or. And it's not that I'm less scared of dying, but I'm more comfortable with the experience of death. I am terrified of dying, but that's a. That's a comfort that I have with playing on those edges. Whereas the sort of quote Unquote, normal, mundane thing. It's more terrifying to me if that. So if that makes sense, like the fear of death is at the core, but that doesn't mean it always shows up in that way. Right? Like, it. The normal fears can be more scary and it's going to be different to everybody. Other people will probably be much more terrified about going to war. Or, you know, like I'm. If somebody said go to war tomorrow, I would be ready, like, crushing it. I've got this, you know, so it shows up differently.
Soldiers, most of the former soldiers I know would say the same thing. Like, you know, know they're. Yes, it's scary, but there's something very addictive. And, you know, they'll, they'll, you know, they know how to do it. It's kind of in their bones.
Absolutely. It's a very addictive and alluring experience. As messed up as that might sound.
There's. There's, at least in my world, fear starts inside the cells. There's. Each, There's a different consciousness. And this is, you know, subcellular psychology. There's a whole field emerging on that. And there's. There's a part of your cells that says, oh my God, I'm just a cell and I'm part of this network of other cells. And eventually all the cells kind of vote and you end up, oh, look, this big piece of meat flops around. It does stuff, right? And, you know, I'm not saying that's all we are, but I'm saying a major part of fear comes from that. I think the fear of asking women out is maybe the. Or men, depending on whichever way you're going to. The tough thing is not just is my meat going to survive for that effort, is the species going to survive because the dumb little. Whether it's a bacteria or a lysosome, some little part of your thing that you don't even pay attention to, it is absolutely convinced that if you don't ask them out or if you fail in asking them out, that the species will die. So it's not even about you. It's about the whole tribe is going to die if I just don't. And it's also the same reason that a lot of guys have ejaculation soon problems. It was like those little, little bacteria, like, yeah, yeah, you better get that thing pregnant right now. And it's that whole fight against fear that, that drives a lot. So that might be the one time I would say fear isn't fear of you dying. It's fear of everyone dying because yeah.
Yeah how dumb is that perpetuation of the species yeah yeah and again all reasonable fear so it kind of makes sense in a in a in a way right so and that's the key thing like even when I like with the assessment of those fears that's why I don't like the idea of irrational fears all fears have their place they show up for a reason it's the assigning of a judgment around the fe causes us more problems like I get terrified of this that and the other thing and I could not care less when fear shows up what matters to me is what I do with it once it does and by kind of disidentifying from it as this thing that envelops me or judging it as a irrational or rational or bad or good or anything of those sorts I I can let go of the construct I have around the fear kind of accept it for what it is and then choose what I want to do I do outside of.
