Must Know Travel Hacks for Your Next Adventure – Jeremy Jauncey – #630

And you'll find that when you land on the ground in these places, the community, certainly within travel on social media has emerged as an incredibly collaborative community. People will be open to taking you places, they'll be open to showing you around. And so our whole travel mantra that travel is a force for good is built on the idea that when you see a beautiful place, whether it's a photo or a video that you want to go to, and you reach out to somebody in the community, there you'll have a much richer and much more fulfilling travel experience. Bulletproof Radio a state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day is that planting trees, I mean like a lot of trees, could give us a fighting chance to turn around climate change. You might not know this, but I'm one of the guys behind the X Prize for Carbon Capture, where I donated some money to create a prize so that we'll find a way to get carbon out of the air and hopefully even do something useful with it. And my bet is actually on building up healthy soil, which by the way, requires animal poop. But even if you don't have animal poop in your soil, planting trees on just 0.9 hectares of land could trap about two thirds of the carbon released by human activities since the start of the Industrial revolution. That means you don't have to knock down a city, you don't have to take over farms or natural grasslands, you just reforest things, maybe things that grew corn, because who wants to eat that crap anyway? Now our planet does have plenty of that land available, and this is based on satellite imagery to see how densely trees grow natur in different ecosystems. And we actually could do 205 metric gigatons of carbon in about a century and we'd have somewhere cool to walk. Now, my guest today leads a company that sends people on adventures all over the world. And that means he's got a vested interest in making sure that all the places all over the world that are worth going to stay that way. And we're going to talk about just all the natural wonders on the planet and what it does for your brain and how you can travel really effectively. If you haven't guessed who I'm talking about, today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, investor, advisor and the founder and CEO of Beautiful Destinations, which is an award winning destination. I don't know what to call it, Agency, Instagram account, all kinds of cool stuff, but if you've seen pictures that Are almost national geographic quality, but it's places you can actually go without needing a team of sled dogs and stuff like that. Although there probably are sled dogs in some of what he does. The guy's name is Jeremy Johnsey, and he's a fascinating guy with about 30 million people following his travel content across all the different things that he works on. So, Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Dave.

When we first talked about doing an interview, I was sort of like, all right, why are bulletproof people Granny Care about what you have to say? But when we got to know each other, I'm like, all right, you've been thinking a lot about what travel does for the human psyche, what shifts have happened in travel and in the way people spend their money over the last just even 20 years.

Yeah, but there are economic shifts. As we've seen a rising middle class combined with decreases in the price of air flight. People are just traveling more. I think last year we saw 1.8 billion international travel trips. And as an industry, there's trillions and trillions of dollars of GDP created through the travel industry. I think it's now about 10% of global GDP coming from travel. So we, as a race, are traveling more places, are seeing the benefits and the negative sides of travel. And as we think about the way that the industry grows, it has enormous economic impacts for countries. But personally, my passion is more the impact that it has on people and this very passionate belief that travel is a force for good in the world. It is a universal language that connects people, regardless of their age or their gender or their income or where they come from. And if you actually get out into the world and explore it, you can uncover amazing things and make yourself a better person and hopefully have a positive impact, too.

It's interesting. This didn't make it into game changers when I think about it, because I didn't get enough. People answered travel more as top three things to perform better. But I look back on the advice I've given to young entrepreneurs and people saying, oh, I should go to school. I should go back to business school. I should start a company. Actually, no, you should travel for three months.

100%. 100%. I think it's the most impactful thing that you can do in your life. I think from a recovery standpoint point, if we're talking to bulletproofers who are looking at ways to improve their life, it has been scientifically shown that taking steps back from the daily stresses and pressures you put yourself through to go and do something that completely expands your horizon experientially has an enormous physical and physiological impact on you. Also, just the act of meeting people and embracing new cultures I think is incredibly empowering. Especially today, we really do need to foster relationships all over the world with people that are different from us in order for us to be able to move forward as a society and I think be happier and be healthy.

What I did is I waited till I was pretty burned out. I'd made and lost $6 million in the dot com boom at the company that held Google's first servers. And I was kind of at my wit's end. And then I went to business school and after that I said, I'm completely fried. And I actually got out of a long relationship and said, okay, I'm just going to take a couple months. And it turned into three months. And then I called my parents and said, hey, I'm going to fly, I'm going to pack up my crap and I'm just going to travel for a year. And I never did that because I ended up getting some kind of a cool job offer. But that happens.

That's how it happens.

The idea, though, of just going somewhere and not knowing what you're doing. I didn't realize I was going to go to Tibet. It was kind of on my bucket list. And that was the genesis of bulletproof coffee. But the idea of just showing up and figuring it out, it seems like most of the time when you book, travel online and things like that, it's like, oh, no, everything's already preordained. You're going to arrive on this day, you're going to do this thing, you're going to do this thing. And how do you navigate or how do you recommend people navigate between serendipity when you travel and knowing you're going to make it to the top of whatever mountain you're going to climb.

Well, I think it starts with how people are now discovering travel. And we see a world where ubiquitous Internet exists everywhere. People have mobile devices that can connect them to all manner and all forms of content all over the world. And really with social media now, particularly with our business with Instagram, we find that so many people are coming to our social channels to be inspired about where to go and what to do. And perhaps a generation before us would use magazines or print or television. And now, because social is such an interactive experience, people are going to Instagram channels, going to Facebook, going to YouTube, and they're saying, okay, that image that I see there has inspired me to now go out and travel. And I think that is an incredibly powerful concept when you realize how easy it is now to talk to people about travel, how easy it is to get them inspired to go out and explore.

So we went from the days where you look at a lonely planet or something and you try to plan this thing and then you find out, oh, that place is closed. And then you have a bunch of. In the early days of the Internet, it was pretty random and all that, but people weren't looking at the images. It was sort of a written description. And now you're saying, why don't you look at it and see if you connect with the image of it and then say, all right, I want to go there in person. But all right, so let's say I'm going to go with places where I've spent some time. So I want to go to Machu Picchu, right? So, I mean, if someone just says, I'm going to do it, would you recommend you just buy a ticket and go there?

I mean, for me personally, if I can share the way I travel, it might help. The easiest thing for me to do is to go onto Instagram and look at the hashtags for the place that I want to go for the geo tags. And what you'll find is a wealth of information about what people's experiences have been like when they've been to these places. So we're here in Montauk, let's say we wanted to see what was going on in the area. It would be so easy for us to go onto Instagram, have a look at the places that have been tagged and the places that have been hashtagged, and see what people's experiences have been. Then from there, you can also see the kind of people that are sharing those experiences and see if they are in communities that you're interested in. If they're in communities that you're interested in, it's then very, very easy to direct message them. It's very easy to start discussion, reach.

Out, say, hey, you went there, let's talk.

Absolutely. And you'll find that when you land on the ground in these places, the community, certainly within travel on social media, has emerged as an incredibly collaborative community. People will be open to taking you places, they'll be open to showing you around. And so our whole travel mantra that travel is a force for good, is built on the idea that when you see a beautiful place, whether it's a photo or a video that you want to go to, and you reach out to somebody in the community there, you'll have a much richer and much more fulfilling travel experience.

So it's just become much easier. I remember when I did the thing in Tibet, I had one of the very first handheld GPSs. It was this really expensive garment thing. And I actually plotted the whole route around Mount Kailash. I don't know if anyone other than some scientists somewhere had ever done that. And I did email that to a few people, but I never got around to posting. And I post all my pictures. And I still remember to this day, it was like, hey, if you want to go here, just drop me an email and I'll tell you everything I know. And probably five people did. But now, I guess with Instagram and all, it's just so much more public, so you can just reach out. All right, so you're completely. Just bypass all the plan every second ahead of time, talk to the people, find out what they liked, what they didn't, what guides are good, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. That's a cool travel hack, actually.

Yeah. It's a really easy way to connect a with people because I think as we see the trends in travel, we're seeing two enormous trends developing. One is. Is wellness travel. It's now estimated to be a $640 billion industry.

People traveling to a spa.

So no, actually traveling for complete wellness. So this could be. This could be to go to a spa. This could be to have your blood work done. I did this maybe a month ago.

Medical tourism.

Yeah, medical tourism. Where you're at, it's amazing. It is. It is amazing. And to do it within an environment where you are completely relaxed and having a really deep and engaging travel experience, I think as a new.

I think you're going to say deep and engaging bone marrow extraction travel experience.

And the stem cell stuff, I probably wouldn't do that if I was traveling to a beach in Thailand. But to be honest with you, that. That growth of wellness tourism is across the board. It's people who want to go and exercise more when they travel. They don't just want to lie on the beach. It's people who want to go on mindfulness trips or yoga retreats. And these are things that society is asking for. And I think it presents an enormous opportunity when you look at ways that you combine health and wellness with travel. Because for so long, people have thought of travel from an economic standpoint as one of the softer industries. Right. They've said, well, listen, travel's fun. You go on your vacation, it's something that's not really contributing to the economy. But actually look at the auto industry or look at the manufacturing industry. Those guys are creating jobs and those guys are actually creating gdp. But actually the opposite is completely true. The travel industry. Economists often reference it as the ATM in the world, the ATM of the world. Because when you land in a place for the very first time and you pull out your credit card, you pull out your cash, you are instantly putting money into the economy. If you think about the taxi driver that might drive you from the airport, or the coffee shop barista, instantly that cash is going into local people's hands. Other industries, manufacturing or automotive as an example, there's a ramp up time. You decide you go into a place, you decide you're going to build a plant. It'll take many months or years before that comes to fruition, before the local people can actually have the benefit of the money that comes from the industry. One really sort of life changing example for me recently was when I went to Rwanda. I went to Rwanda for the very first time. And those that are listening will automatically think of genocide. That's what people think of when they think of Rwanda. It's either genocide or guerrillas. And when I went there for the first time, I had a chance to meet with the tourism board, to meet with the leaders in tourism and talk to them about how they were repositioning their country and how they were going to try and drive economic development through tourism. And their mantra was very simple, sustainable tourism. Invest in the natural assets we have, which is brilliant and beautiful wildlife and a conservation element where all citizens within the country can align behind protecting the environment because they will make money that will improve their lives. So I had the chance to do a guerrilla trekking experience, which if you haven't done before, you should do it. It will change your life. But the most important thing through that experience was that the people who took me on that trek were former poachers. So these were men and women who, because they had no other means to support themselves, they had no other means to make money, had to kill wildlife and then sell it on the black market. Now the government came in and said, why don't we change that dynamic? Why don't we give these people a chance to understand that they can make more money by conserving the environment. They can make more money through tourism. And that people who will then come and have this magical tourism experience will pay for it. And the poachers can then become guides. And so all of my guides were former poachers who had said that in their previous lives, they were miserable, they were unhappy, they didn't want to do what they were doing, but they had no other way to make money. And now because of sustainable tourism, they have much richer lives financially, emotionally, and also they're enabling these amazing experiences for tourists who come into the country.

It's interesting that you talk about terrorism and guerrillas, but the other kind of guerrillas in Rwanda and I went to Cambodia. It was about 15 years ago, not more than a few years after the Khmer Rouge were running things there. It was one of the most impactful things of my life was that trip. Because I've studied trauma, I've looked at ptsd, I've done really heavy duty neuroscience work on what trauma does to individuals and populations. And instead of having a bunch of sort of quivering people like, oh my God, I saw the most horrible things happen to my family members in front of me. There are people who made a dollar a day and were smiling and these weren't for smiles. They were real smiles and singing songs and generally had a level of resilience that I didn't even understand was possible and probably isn't in the West. But just to see that was transformative and to realize that if you're in a country that had a really rough period recently, just watching the recovery of the society itself will change you 100%.

I mean, really what you're touching on there is it's just the core of travel. It's what travel does to you. I think if you're an entrepreneur, even if you were just working in a normal 9 to 5 job where you don't get out and see the world, you lose the context of how amazing the place is. And so our whole business focus, it's in our name, is beautiful destinations. Going to places all over the world that are beautiful the way that they look, but also the people that are there. And I feel so passionately that if you get out and you explore, you will have these life changing experiences that you have absolutely no way to plan. Like you talk about the founding story of Bulletproof. You went to the other side of the world, had a cultural experience with a completely different set of people that you learned from, were able to bring back. And now millions of people benefit from that cultural experience that you had when you traveled. I think when you find from a traveling experience standpoint, there is always something to talk about with a person. If you go out with a positive mindset, if you go out with the belief that inherently people are good and they will welcome you you will find the most enriching experiences when you're outside of your day to day comfort zone. And really, to provide context to that, it doesn't just mean jumping on a plane, going to Bali or Australia and discovering yourself on a mindfulness retreat. It really is a mindset that says, I will be open to new cultures. I will be open to different people. I will cross the street to that deli that is from. That is run by a group of individuals from another part of the world that I know nothing about. But I will go with an open mindset because every day I walk past that deli and maybe I make a judgment because of where I think they come from or the type of food that they sell. But actually, if you spend the time with these people, you'll see that they're just the same as you. We all care about the same things. We want to be successful, we want to be happy, and we want to love, and we want to be loved. And that's all over the world. So if. If travel can help you understand that, then you can have an impact.

Okay, I have a question for you. I don't know if you have good advice. I'm six four, I'm a big white dude. I can remember a time traveling through China with some friends who were Chinese. And people see me from three blocks away because I'm a foot taller than the average person. And then all the people trying to sell me cheap plastic crap, they come running, like 20 or 30 of them in a mob around me. And I learned how to say in Chinese, okay, no thank you. No thank you. How to escalate to the rude thank yous. And finally, I had one guy who followed me for 10 blocks, and I asked my friend, how do you say I will kick your ass in Chinese? So I wish I could say it for people now, but I forgot. And so I look at the guy and go, I will kick your ass. And he looks at me and says something and runs off. And my friend's rolling on the floor. Her name's Amy. She goes, you know what he said? He said, you don't have to be a barbarian about it.

There you go.

And it's okay. So how do I walk the line between being like a magnet? Literally, they say, like target. How do I be less of a target? How do people who don't look like the people where they're traveling avoid that?

Oh, God. That's a good question and a very hard question to answer. I think, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure. That there's anything you can do culturally. I think it's really more a mindset thing to go into these new places with an understanding that many of these cultures are different. There are many cultures around the world where commerce and trade is very much a people to people thing. It's a face to face thing. And I've certainly experienced that in China. I've certainly experienced that in parts of the Middle east and Northern Africa where it's not that a person is being rude by being in my face. It's the way that they communicate and it's the way that their culture does conduct business. And I think if anything, it's more maybe recognizing that we are as much, I guess, than their culture and then changing the mindset so that we try and understand where they're coming from. I think that's probably the best thing I'd advise people try and do. But it's easier said than done when there's people shouting in your face.

One of the other things that I found just enlightening and even to this day useful was looking at negotiating styles in different countries. I love going to local markets. And again in China, you negotiate until they yell at you and tell you that you're not a real man or you're not a good enough customer. For me, I got a good deal and you can yell at them and then like, oh, this guy's actually going to leave. But it's not like an angry yelling. It's a normal way you signal. But if you go to South America, it's totally different. If you acted that way, they'd probably punch you.

Right.

So to understand those things and then you bring that back into your normal business life, it's kind of cool.

It's fascinating. It is an area because obviously business is a huge passion for me as well as travel. It's an area that I feel. I learn so much when I'm traveling when I'm doing business in Japan. And I'm sure you've been to Japan many times. You know what that experience is like. Just the dynamics, the chess that you play when you're negotiating deals with the Japanese is so fundamentally different to the way that you communicate with New Yorkers in the US or the way that you communicate with Emiratis in Dubai or Abu Dhabi. And I think having those experiences, it certainly tests you from a business standpoint. I get a lot of fulfillment going into these negotiations and knowing that I have to adapt my style and I have to step up my game if I want to be able to do deals all over the world. And so, I mean, all the time, I am finding that I have to adjust the way I try and get a deal done. If we're trying to do something in Africa, which is very different to the way we might do something in the uk and so that's a skill that I think you try and push yourself to learn.

And so Canada, the leader in Canada, and I live in Canada. I think he's a supermodel, as I understand it. Justin Trudeau. I don't follow politics that closely, but I know he got a lot of flack for dressing in traditional Indian clothes when he visited India. And they're saying, you're not from India. How dare you do that? What's your best practice when you go to a new country? Should you buy the Thai fisherman pants, or should you just wear your Western clothes? How do you walk that line?

Yeah, so personally, for me, it all comes down to the people that I'm with and the cultural experience that I have. So I think the starting point really is not to make any assumptions, which is something that I only learned later in life. I really did assume, as I was going into a lot of these countries, that because I come from the uk, this is my view of the world. This is the way the world is. I think it probably took me into my late twenties to actually realize that, okay, this guy who grew up in the middle of Australia or this lady who grew up in Egypt, she just. Her worldview is different to mine. And so if I don't go in with a respect and understanding, it's just not going to work. So when it comes to wearing local clothing or buying local product, I'll always ask first and see is this appropriate? Am I respecting where you're coming from? If I want to wear this stuff or be involved in this stuff in 99% of the times, Dave, my experience is it's seen as a massive compliment, and it's seen as something that really enriches and supports the relationship that you then have.

So you're not going to step in a kimono sort of situation like Kim Kardashian?

Yeah, that was unfortunate. But I'm sure, you know, whatever intention was behind that, it was a positive. Yeah, I don't think it was to offend people, but of course it wasn't.

Right. But it seems like no one would ever want to offend local people. So if you're wearing a religious icon and you don't know it's religious icon, you didn't do your Homework. But my experience has been the locals usually think it's pretty cool.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think there's two factors to it. One is obviously that people have an appreciation for you if you take the time to try and understand and respect their culture. But going back to the economics behind it, you really do change people's lives when you spend money in local economies. And one of the things that we push so hard around sustainable tourism is the idea of getting into the communities that live and breathe in the places that you go to. So if I take the Rwanda example, again, aside from seeing these gorillas, which was a life changing experience, the second most impactful experience for me was after the trek. We went through a series of villages which were in absolutely the middle of nowhere. And we ended up in a village where a group of local people had set out all of their wares. These beautifully made. It was amazing. These beautifully made baskets and hand carved guerrilla souvenirs. And we sat down and I talked to them about what tourism had done for them. And they explained it was just, it was so simple. When tourists come, they spend money on the products that we create. We feel empowered because they value the things that we've created. And we have money that comes straight into our hands, which we would never get in any other way. And so the experience that really made me smile at the end of it was that I saw a whole lot of things and felt really good about the investment I was about to make in these products and said to the guy, listen, I'd love to take all these things, but, you know, I've just been trekking. So I didn't bring my wallet. I don't have any cash. Sorry. No, I brought my wallet, but I don't have any cash. And he says, don't, don't worry. He pulled out his phone, he put in a swipe, and he literally swiped my credit card in the middle of the Rwandan jungle.

That's awesome.

Knew that that money was going straight to all of local people because every item that I bought had a little sticker on it. And the sticker had the name of the individual that made it. So the collective community would then account for that money and give it to the person that had done it. Now that for me was one of the most impactful travel experiences that I had that I would encourage people to really look at when they go out and travel to.

Now, those are all the positive sides of travel, but okay. I remember driving through this incredibly, just desolate part of Tibet. It was a five Day drive to get to Mount Kailash when I was doing that. And you pull up to this one little village and there's a huge mound of disposable ramen containers, like thousands and thousands of them. And you go to the remote parts of Nepal and there's water bottles stacked all over the place. Do you ever worry that all this travel is sort of removing the uniqueness of these cultures and sort of just making everything homogenous? A generation from now, like, there'll be a McDonald's in the Rwandan jungle.

Definitely. Definitely. I think it's one of the biggest areas of improvement for the industry. As we look at the concept is called regional dispersion. The idea that centralized, which become the main tourist meccas, dominate the culture and dominate the country. And so you see it in Barcelona, where local citizens are throwing out Airbnb, they're putting out banners saying, we don't want any more tourists. We have too many tourists in Venice, where the environmental impact combined with climate change has had such a negative impact on what is one of the most amazing places in the world. And really, the role, I think, for people like myself who are in the travel industry is the world is big enough, people are welcoming enough. How do we find and grow new places for tourism where you can move some of the pressure from these highly visited places to other places that are desperate for tourism? So if you go to Barcelona, an hour's train ride away from Barcelona, are absolutely fantastically beautiful local towns that are starving for tourism. And so those are the places that we want to try and push people. And I think if we think about globalization in general, this idea that one country's view of the world and one country's view of what a hotel should be or what a restaurant should be, really isn't the best way to grow our industry. It has to be respecting local people and respecting local cultures. And I think if we look at the way certainly millennial generations of travelers are traveling, they care so deeply about experiences that they're not going to want to go and have the fast food meal when they're in Vietnam. They're going to want to have local food. So I hope that society will start pushing those trends even further. So the people that are making these hotels and creating these travel experiences listen to that and adapt accordingly.

How do you teach people who haven't traveled to travel? And I don't mean just a young American or something, but there's huge numbers of Chinese and people in India who've just hit the economic level, where they're saying, you know what, we can go on a family vacation to another country. And no one in my family's history that's recorded has ever done that.

That's amazing.

There's this one guy 5,000 years ago, we think went over the Himalayas, but he never came back. It's literally to that level. How do you teach the level of consciousness and thinking about adventure and all to people around the world who just haven't done it?

Well, certainly social media has helped start that. I think there is no way that beautiful destinations could be the business it is if it hadn't started with social media. And so for us, it began with this idea of fostering and then developing an online community with shared values and shared passions. And so in the early days of Instagram, certainly you could only post a square photo. You were very limited in the way that you could communicate. But even with that simple way to communicate, communities developed around this idea of sharing what their life experience was. And. And now you can post videos and you have stories and interactive gifs and all these different ways that people are communicating. But I think social media is a very good way to do it. Now, as is very high profile in the press at the moment, there are very negative parts of social media that are being governed and being managed, and I think that's absolutely critical. But certainly within the travel and tourism industry, inspiring people to travel is as simple as showing them a short, beautiful video or a short photograph. And I think I would certainly challenge any listener at the moment to go up to a random stranger, ask them if they had one inspiring travel memory, and get no answer. Everybody has something. Whether it's the first time you travel with your kids, whether it's the first time you left to go to college, whether it is the first time. If you're one of those people that have never, ever traveled your first travel trip, it leaves such a big impact on you that I. I think the inspiration bit is not so much the hard bit, it's the doing it in a sustainable way and making sure that you protect the environment.

You've traveled an extensive amount, way more than I have. I mean, I fly an awful lot, but I think you fly a little bit more than I do. You mentioned you were going to Egypt for eight hours or something. I don't remember where, but some crazy place on the other side of the globe. What is the single most beautiful destination you've ever been to?

Oh, that's a great question and also.

A very loaded question if you answer it. All of your questions.

If I do that. So being as diplomatic as I can, I think there isn't one single place that I would say is the most beautiful place in the world. But certainly the first time I went to Japan was the most moving travel experience I ever had, because it was the first time ever in my life that I was absorbed by a culture that did not speak English, did not really care about my upbringing, and didn't try to pander to the fact that I was coming from a different country. We're the Japanese. This is the way we live. This is what we do. And feeling like a complete alien and completely foreign for the very first time actually turned up to be incredibly empowering.

Super cool.

It was amazing. It really was amazing. And then again, I think that the whole philosophy I have towards life of you can achieve anything with a positive attitude and a smile when you go out and meet people. Although you have to be careful when you do that. I think with that mindset, you can go to any country in the world, regardless of where that is, and have a positive experience. And certainly in Japan, I went there, I couldn't speak English. All I could do was smile at people. And that sort of got me by. So that's definitely a place that sticks in my mind. Also, I think it's very exciting for me to be able to see a place, see a video of a place or a photograph of a place that we've posted on Beautiful Destinations, think about wanting to go there, and then actually going there and seeing it in real life. And we see that with the millions of people who engage with our content telling us every day. You guys inspired me to go to this place. I would never have gone to xyz. I never would have had the experience had I not seen that first piece of content on Beautiful Destinations. And that, I think, is probably one of the most rewarding things about what we do.

So it's that sense of mission that I inspired someone. And, yeah, it feels great when someone just says, hey, I had a good experience based on what you shared.

Absolutely.

All right. But if there's such a thing as a beautiful destination, do you have an opposite account of some of the ugliest destinations?

We don't, but, God, there's plenty of experiences that we've had.

So what's the most non beautiful place you've ever been? The ugliest place?

Oh, God, it's gonna get me in trouble again.

I know.

I see where this is going. Dave.

I'm also gonna ask you about your favorite girlfriend.

Going back to one My favorite child. Which one? I'd bake if I was forced. Okay, so. Okay. I am struggling here. I think that the most difficult travel experiences that I've had have actually been of my own making, where I've gone to a place and not realized either that I needed certain vaccinations to get there. And very recently, yeah, that was tough. Actually, very recently went to a part of East Africa without checking the vaccinations that I needed. Got to the airport and realized that they weren't gonna let me in the country if I didn't show my yellow fever.

Do you ever just, like, fudge the little document?

Oh, well, this was a tough one because I physically had to bring out the yellow fever. The yellow. Yellow fever mini passport, which is. Which is what you need to show you've had the injection. Yeah. And, I mean, I don't think even you could have fixed it on 10 bulletproof coffee. So I had to go and see these guys and say, listen, I haven't got it. What's my option? And they said, if you want to come in the country, which I had to do for a meeting, you need to go around the corner. And there was a young guy, probably 14, 15, dressed full military gear. And above him was a piece of A4 paper that had written WHO, World Health Organization on it.

Wow.

Very fiddle keeping it on the door. And I was like, oh, God, what am I getting myself into? And so, yeah, he put on some gloves and he gave me this injection, which was supposedly yellow fever, and then gave me my document and I went through. So for those that are thinking of traveling. Yeah, that was probably not the best travel experience that I've had.

My wife was going to do Doctors Without Borders. This was before I met her.

Amazing.

And so she did all of the travel vaccines all at once, the way they make you do it. And she was working in an emergency room at the time. And the day after all of the injections at once, she got meningitis. Like, her brain swelled up. And she told the nurse, hey, I can't actually see this patient right now because I can't remember anything between the chart and when I look in their eyes. And she ended up having to take three months off in order to let her brain swell down. And her medical professors are like, maybe you should have spaced those out a little bit. Right. So I would say maybe if you're going to do something that requires a lot of vaccines, space them out, support your immune system when you're going to do that.

Yes.

Because it's just why do it all right at once right before you travel? Because travel itself is a burden.

It is. It's very taxing on your body.

Right. And so I see so many people like, I'm going to go on vacation, so I'm going to take the cheapest possible flight in the smallest possible seat. And sometimes it's all you can afford, so you do it. But I'm not going to plan a day to recover from my 14 hour flight. When I get there, I'm going to immediately get on a tour bus and they feel like crap the whole time and they're drinking and all of a sudden they have a terrible travel experience because they're biologically wrecked.

Well, I mean, in many ways it actually starts even before that. So the U.S. travel association is the industry body that represents the interests of the travel industry. And they conduct a study every year with around 4 to 5,000Americans called Project Time off, which looks at how much vacation are people taking. And in the States, the average American has 50% of their vacation unused. So they just keep working through and this is paid vacation time that they physically don't get round to using. Average American takes around 17 days of vacation a year. And if you look at how that relates to the rest of the world, probably outside of the Japanese, it's the worst. It's absolutely the worst. So before you even go on vacation, people are pushing themselves and working themselves to the limit to such an extent that there's so much pressure when you go on that one five or seven day vacation to make it really the best thing that highlights your year, that the pressure that you put on yourself when you travel just causes you to implode. So I think when you look at the way you can travel, scheduling little small trips, if it means you take off a Friday once a month to have a slightly longer weekend, you can build up a little bit more resilience for traveling so that when you get out there you have a, a better experience. And I think there are ways when people travel, and certainly I've experienced this firsthand, that you don't really appreciate how taxing is on your body. To fly a certain place, to have a completely knocked out sleep pattern, and you've mentioned it many times on the podcast in the past about how challenging an environment it is within an airplane. And certainly for me, using TrueDark glasses has been something that has improved. So you actually do. Actually has. Yeah. No, seriously. So plugging away aside. But really it has been something that has helped me because I spend so much time on planes that the impact of light on me just sends my circadian rhythm all over the show. And I don't know what time of the day it is when I land in a place to actually sleep properly. And I think many people just do the simple stuff of changing their clocks when they land. But it's much deeper than that. If you want to be a high performance individual, whether it's business, personal or in your relationships, when you travel, you've got to take care of that base level, foundational stuff.

When I first became a professional traveler.

Not for vacation, high performance individual, whether it's business, personal or in your relationships, when you travel, you've got to take care of that base level foundational stuff.

When I first became a professional traveler, not for vacations and beautiful places like you do, but usually conference rooms around the globe for work, I was really wrecked. I did this roadshow once. It was three cities a week for six weeks.

Wow, that's pretty.

And there's something to do with cloud computing. I don't remember, but I mean, I was almost disabled cognitively. I don't know what city I'm in. I don't know what I'm going to say on stage, but I'm just going to sort of stumble through it just because I didn't know how to sleep, I didn't know how to eat and I didn't do all that. And I feel like there isn't really a travel resilience guide that's out there. So give me your tips. I mean, I talk about them scattered all over the podcast. Give me what you do. Because you're like, like the super traveling.

Yeah. So no, I think it's a great point. I think there are ways that you can handle your travel better. The foundational element for me is your basic health and fitness. What is the routine that keeps you active, that keeps your body moving? Certainly there are. If you want to be on the more extreme side of things, you can read books like the Oxygen Advantage, you can look at Wim hof, you can look at tools that will enable your body to oxygenate itself better so that you just have a more efficient engine for those people that want to be a little bit more accessible and fit it more into their lifestyle. Just having a consistent exercise regime before you travel I think is critical. It sets your body up to be able hopefully to recover when you go and you sleep. There's also a foundational element of nutrition. When I travel, I really don't have any caffeine, personally about Eight hours before I fly.

When you don't travel. Okay. Because you drink. We had coffee before.

Oh, yeah. So coffee is a, you know, the foundational routine of my lifestyle, but just.

Not when you fly.

Yeah. So for me personally, it just. It wires me too much and I'm just. I'm just confused. So most people make this mistake. They turn up at the airport, they wait for their flight, they get onto the flight and airplanes serve a meal about an hour into the service. Yeah. So they have.

Don't do that.

So don't. Don't do that. So they have their. They have their meal and then whilst they're having their meal, they'll obviously watch the screen and they'll watch some kind of movie or some kind of piece of content to keep them engaged whilst they're eating. Then at that point they'll start to try and fall asleep. And if you think about the system that you're going through, it's completely backwards. You're putting plain food, which in many cases needs to be processed, needs to be full of preservatives, needs to be full of additives because it's being shifted all over the world. It's not packaged enough in a good way, and it's full of junk.

Don't eat it.

Just don't eat it. Really the simplest thing to do is if you are going to arrive at the airport, I'd recommend you arrive at the airport a little bit earlier. Have a big meal then. So I will have a full meal an hour before.

So you eat before you fly. Interesting. I usually fly fasted or just on fat. Like I'll do bulletproof coffee beforehand because you want some ketones present. Okay. And you actually feel good when you do that. So people listening. Try both.

I was gonna see what works. Definitely try both. Because I find that having. Having a meal an hour before the flight is due to take off. Making sure that I'm diligent when I'm on the flight to not look at electronics or use truedark glasses if I'm going to. But then read for an hour or two as the flight's going on. I'm sort of two, two and a half hours before the time that I want to sleep. My body's processed most of the food. I'm not stimulated. I haven't been drinking alcohol, There hasn't been sugar in my system. And then I just sleep much, much better. That's the simplest thing for me to tee myself up to sleep well during the flight also, I mean, if you. If you can I will try to set my watch, my phone and all the clocks the day before to the time zone that I'm going to.

Matters a lot.

It does, it helps a lot. I think it's maybe more psychological because then when I'm checking my watch on the way to the airport, I know that I'm already on the time of where I'm going to land to. And that's not a particularly, you know, scientific hack, but it does, it does seem to work for me. Then when I land on the ground, my particular type of travel means that I'm usually going straight into meetings. So then that's when I'll have a caffeine fix and that will fire me up and get me ready to go through the day.

Okay, that makes sense. Definitely the landing and then having caffeine if you land in the morning works really well. Do you do something different if you're flying east to west versus west to east?

Yes, I think depending on what time of the day I'm landing. If I'm landing and going straight to bed, then I won't eat. I'll do a fast all the way through and I'll find that usually I'm tired enough that I can get into the place that I'm landing. And that first night I usually sleep pretty well. I think most people, when they look at those longer whole flights will sleep well on the first night. And it's the second and the third when the system starts to go a bit screwed. But I won't eat, I'll go straight to sleep and then I'll start my new day as I would if I was in the place that I'd left.

It's interesting you said that because I just interviewed the author of why We Sleep and he talked about how even if you're not flying, just staring at a bright screen at night for an hour has a three day hangover in sleep quality.

Absolutely.

So you're getting circadian disruption. It wouldn't surprise me if you have that two or three day hangover. So I'm pretty religious every night after I land about walking around in weird red sunglasses because for me that's been the biggest circadian thing. To the point I don't get jet lag, but if I don't do that, I get jet lag and I don't like jet lag.

Well, I mean, it also helps if you know your chronotype. So I mean, I know that I'm a lion, I know that I wake up super early. That's just the way that I'm set up.

You're one of the bad people.

I'm one of things. The bad people? Yeah.

People that you made me feel bad.

For staying up late. Yeah.

Interview's over.

So I'll know that if I'm landing somewhere 5am the next morning, I'll be into it. So I'll try and schedule the important meeting that I'm having. 8, 9, 10am Because I know by the afternoon I'll just not be as good. So if you know your chronotype, that certainly helps. And then the base level foundational stuff around Europe, your health and activity, and then your supplementation, you should be good.

Okay, beautiful. What do you do for your staff? I mean, you have hundreds of people going to these most beautiful destinations all over the planet. They're flying everywhere. And I mean, okay, I will just admit it. I'm six four. I fly business class all the time. Because you put me in economy, it's tough. It shouldn't be legal to put people over £200 in economy. It's like putting chickens in those tiny crates. It's just not okay. But a lot of times there isn't a travel budget for that. And you're saying, all right, and certainly I did this when I was younger. The company's like, I don't care how tall you are, your travel budget is 200 bucks. I'm like, all right, yoga positions for four hours.

It's hard.

What do you do for your people who are traveling their butts off on limited budget?

Yeah, I mean, it's really hard. I mean, to be honest, we're probably not doing enough and we're not doing as much as we could. Because I think the simplest things when we look at the way we try and help people when they travel is to control the controllables. And there are certain things that are in our grasp as a company that we can help change. So do people have access to good nutrition? Do they at least know what good nutrition is when they travel? If you're not in a position or we're not in a position to be paying for business class flights for everybody, understanding and accepting that they're going to have poor sleep quality, that they're going to have a more difficult time when they're in the air and when they're landing? Trying to work in some kind of recovery framework for them when they land is something we definitely think about. I mean, it's a big challenge. And I think it's a big challenge really, across small and growing companies all the way to big multinational. It is the same challenge of understanding how do you build into a person's travel schedule, the fact that it can be quite taxing on their body, and if you want them to perform and deliver new business or build relationships, then you have to do something. I think that's my mental motivation. Could be better at that, actually.

Tell me five things that you personally won't travel without having in your bag.

Okay. Oh, God. That's a good question. So noise canceling headphones. That's an easy one. Yeah, I think everyone can relate to that. That's very, very simple. An eye mask isn't sexy, but really, really does get.

You have one with, like, kitty cat eyes from Japan.

How do you know? You looked in my luggage. So there's. So there's those two things, for sure. I love to read flights for everybody. Understanding and accepting that they're going to have poor sleep quality, that they're going to have a more difficult time when they're in the air and when they're landing. Trying to work in some kind of recovery framework for them when they land is something we definitely think about. I mean, it's a big challenge, and I think it's a big challenge, really across. I think there is always a powerful part in my life of podcasting, but there's also a very important part of my life for taking a step back and reading a book. So I always have something that I read. That's. That's three. I've been a pair of sneakers, to be honest. I'm very active. I love working. Yeah, yeah. Something just to get out and do some kind of exercise with. Will always. Will always be there with me. I'd say. I'd say. I'd say water. I mean, I'd say I have a reusable bottle everywhere I go. That. That helps a lot. I mean, I think certainly within travel and the, you know, the elephant in the room whenever I talk about our business is the environmental impact that we have. And, you know, we really do. So basically, I've been an ambassador for the World Wildlife foundation for the last few years and really tried to invest time in learning about sustainable small and growing companies all the way to big multinationals. It is the same challenge of understanding how do you build into a person's travel schedule, the fact that it can be quite taxing on their body and if you want to travel. And one of the things that I learned in working with those guys was that really, there are three key things you need to understand if you want to have A sustainable impact. When you travel, the first and the most important thing is to know your impact. If you don't know your impact, you're not going to care. So there are countless numbers of carbon calculators, there are countless numbers of tools that allow you to put in it to perform and deliver new business or build relationships. Then you have to do something. I think that's my mental note to do better at that actually.

Tell me five things that you personally.

Information that will tell you what your carbon footprint is. And unsurprisingly, I have a large carbon footprint because I fly so much. So one, I actually know what my impact is. I have a number that I can work against. The second is then to do all that you can to reduce that number. And most people have sort of three lifestyle factors that will determine their carbon output. The transportation that they use, the consumption of energy that they have in their day to day life, and then the consumption of goods, services, electronics, clothes, products, all other things. Those three kind of pillars will be the best determinant of what your carbon output is. If you know those three things, then you can work at ways to reduce them. And obviously there's been a huge movement.

Recently of only won't travel without having in your bag.

Okay. Oh God, that's a good question. So noise canceling headphones, that's an easy one. You know, no plastic straws, which is fantastic. And there are places that are really trying to remove plastic. Yeah, I think everyone can relate to that. That's very, very simple. An eye mask isn't sexy, but really, really does get.

Do you have one with like kitty cat eyes from Japan?

How do you know? You looked at my luggage. You know, entirely from chain, which is fantastic. There are big organizations that are moving to biomass fuels and electronic ways of delivering energy, which is also fantastic. But those are the things that you as an individual, if you can get a handle on those things, then you know. So there's those two things for sure. I love to read how to reduce your impact. Then the third and the final thing is be accountable for everything else. Which means if you know your number, you know what things you can reduce then physically go and pay. Buy carbon credits for the rest of your output. So beautiful destinations. As a company, we worked with climate consultants last year to make ourselves climate positive. I think there is always a powerful part in my life of podcasting, but there's also a very important part of my life for taking a step back and reading a book. So I always have, I always have something that I Read. That's three. I've been a pair of sneakers. To be honest. I'm very. To go out and say, here's all the things that we can control. Here's the number of flights that we did, the number of trains that we took, the number of nights in Airbnbs and hotels for our whole workforce. Here's the aggregate number that we think we've put into the environment. Here are the things we're going to reduce, and here are the cash payments that we're going to make to buy carbon credits that will then go to carbon projects that can then actually put more back into the environment. So it tips take more active. I love working. Yeah, yeah. Something just to get out and do some kind of exercise with will always be like the environment that we're putting in. So that's something I feel very strongly about. And I think if people can travel with that mindset, you can do and have these amazing travel experiences, but do it in a way that's mindful and conscious of the output you're having on the environment.

That's super cool. And I find that every CEO that I've talked to, including from some of the really large companies out there, they all want to do, they're with me.

I'd say water. I mean, I'd say I have the right thing.

And there's issues like with plastic. Thank God we got rid of plastic straws. Now we can get rid of paper ones, too, because they're just a waste of paper. You actually don't need a straw. And especially if you're at a restaurant that has a glass cup with a plastic or paper, you're like, why are you doing that?

A reusable bottle everywhere I go, that helps a lot. I mean, I think certainly within travel and the elephant in the room whenever I talk about our business is the environmental impact that we have.

We can tip glasses. We're all okay.

Exactly, exactly.

But aside from that, I'm not going to name the company, but one of the largest beverage companies in the world. And I'm like, how do you get something better than plastic? I know. It's a.

We really do. So basically, I've been an ambassador for.

The worldwide 100% recyclable. But I don't like it that if somebody. Some jerk throws it in the ocean and it breaks down into particles, in fact, I have a whole plan for breaking that up at some point in my life. So there just isn't a good solution for that. So the whole industry is starting to do this. But the only thing that really works is a changing demand. When they start saying, oh, people are drinking less bottled water because they're worried about the bottle.

The life foundation for the last few years and really try to invest time and learn are they sustainable?

They're going to fix the problem. And I feel like it's that way for the whole food supply. And same thing if you go to a travel company and they give you 14 layers of shrink wrap on everything you're doing and everything smells like formaldehyde and you're like, actually this didn't help the country where I went. Maybe you'll talk about it.

Well, I mean the crazy thing is that in many of the nations in the developed travel and one of the things that I learned in working with those guys was that really there are three key things you need to understand if you want to have a sustainable impact. When you travel the first and the most developing world, they are the ones that are leading the way in sustainability. I mean important thing is to know your impact. If you don't know your impact, you're not going to care. So I mean Rwanda banned plastic bags 15 years ago. Wow. Next year they will all single use plastics will be gone from the country. Granted, it's easier when you're a small economy and you're to starting starting from scratch. But really when you think about the as a human race, we have had the ability in most instances to fix the problems that we get ourselves into. If we focus on fixing problems around climate, we will be able to fix things. I really, really do believe that what we're seeing now, I believe for the first time in history is through digital and social platforms the ability. There are countless numbers of carbon calculators, there are accountants, numbers of tools that allow you to put in information consumers who never had a voice in the past to have a voice and to stand up and say information that will tell you what your carbon footprint is. And unsurprisingly, I have a large carbon footprint because I fly so much. So one I actually know what my impact is. I have a number that I don't believe in this, this is what I stand for. This is how we need to change. And if you think about communications that go out from people who would in the past only get their information from one direction, from the media, from tv, from print, without being able to have a discussion around it in a large forum, that's all change. And if we beautiful destinations, we can use our audience and our community to push sustainable travel and inspire people they can work against. The second is then to do all that you can to reduce that number and people to have these travel experiences but have an impact on the planet, then everybody benefits. And I think to your point, it is the changing nature of consumption that will be the biggest driver of things and then industry will catch up. But I think there's also an opportunity, maybe not too, to just purely bash the big industry guys and just say, you're the issue. So we're going to completely vilify you. I think there is an opportunity to make them accountable and say, why don't you guys change your practices? Because a huge multinational course people have sort of three lifestyle factors that will determine their carbon output. The transportation operation with tens if not hundreds of millions of customers is going to be able to have a much, much bigger impact on the environment that may, as an individual, you as an individual are going to be able to have. So if we put pressure on that they use the consumption of energy that they have in their day to day life and then the consumption of goods, services, electronics, clothes, products, all those people to make the right decisions, then we can have a much bigger impact on a global scale.

I love that. Right. When you finish that, the sound of a dump truck probably emptying trash just intruded on our studio. Like, man, the punctuation from the world.

Around us, the tone a little bit.

I have one more question for you. You talk about sustainability, which is good. It means the world will be around for a while. But I want to know, and you have an early copy of Superhuman, so you know my number. But how long do you think you're going to live, given all the weird places you go, all the travel you do? I mean, you kind of take some hits.

Yeah. Yeah, Really. I mean, to be honest, I knew this question was coming. I know from the podcast that that question comes and people will say, 180, 120, 100. Really, the number itself doesn't matter to me. What really, really matters to me is the quality of life that I have. And if I can get to whatever age it is that is right for me to get to where I have a happy, healthy, cognitive life surrounded by the people that I care about. And I can stop and say I don't have any regrets from the places that I've been, the things that I've done and the experiences that I've had at that time, I'll be good to go. And if that's, you know, if that's 80, if that's 60, if that's 120. I'm good.

Yeah. So live like every day might be your last.

Yeah. All right.

I love that advice. Your website is beautiful. Website, Instagram handle.

Yeah, yeah, get us at whatever.

Yes, Website. Sorry, I'm old.

Yeah, no, Instagram is the best way.

To HTTP that old thing. When I was a kid, I had HTTP both ways to school. All right, so Instagram, beautiful destinations. And your content's inspiring. Just the way you think about travel and about what it does to you and to the world is really cool and interesting. So thank you so much for being on the show.

Thanks for the things. Those three kind of pillars will be the best determinant of what your carbon output is. If you know those three things, then you can work at ways to reduce them. And obviously, there's been a huge movement recently of no plastic straws, which is fantastic. And there are places that are really trying to remove plastic entirely from their supply chain, which is fantastic. There are big organizations that are moving to biomass fuels and electronic ways of delivering energy, which is also fantastic. But those are the things that you as an individual, if you can get a handle on those things, then you know, my pleasure. How to reduce your impact, then the third and the final thing is be accountable for everything else, which means if you know your number, you know what things you can reduce, then physically go and pay, buy carbon credits for the rest of your output. So beautiful destinations. As a company, we worked with climate consultants last year to make ourselves climate positive. So really to go out and say, here's all the things that we can control, here's a number of flights that we did, the number of trains that we took, the number of nights in Airbnbs and hotels for our whole workforce, here's the aggregate number that we think we've put into the environment. Here are the things we're going to reduce, and here are the cash payments that we're going to make to buy carbon credits that will then go to carbon projects that can then actually put more back into the environment, to take more out of the environment than we're putting in. So that's something I feel very strongly about. And I think if people can travel with that mindset, you can do and have these amazing travel experiences, but do it in a way that's mindful and conscious of the output you're having on.

The environment, that's super cool. I find that every CEO that I've talked to, including from some of the really large companies out there, they all want to do the right thing, and there's issues with plastic. Thank God we got rid of plastic straws. Now we can get rid of paper ones too because they're just a waste of paper. You actually don't need a straw. And especially if you're at a restaurant that has a glass cup with a plastic or perio like why are you doing this? We can tip glasses, we're all okay.

Exactly, exactly.

But aside from that, I'm not going to name the company but one of the largest beverage companies in the world. And I'm like, how do you get something better than plastic? I know it's 100% recyclable, but I don't like it that if some jerk throws it in the ocean it breaks down into particles. In fact, I have a plan for breaking that up at some point in my life. But so there just isn't a good solution for that. So the whole industry is starting to do this, but the only thing that really works is changing demand. When they start saying, oh, people are drinking less bottled water because they're worried about the bottle, they're going to fix the problem. And I feel like it's that way for the whole food supply. And same thing if you go to a travel company and they give you 14 layers of shrink wrap on everything you're doing and everything smells like formaldehyde and you're like, actually this didn't help the country where I went. Maybe you'll talk about it.

Well, I mean the crazy thing is that in many of the nations in the developing world, they are the ones that are leading the way in sustainability. I mean Rwanda banned plastic bags 15 years ago. Wow. Next year they will all single use plastics will be gone from the country. Granted, it's easier when you're a small economy and you're to starting starting from scratch. But really when you think about the As a human race, we have had the ability in most instances to fix the problems that we get ourselves into. If we focus on fixing problems around climate, we will be able to fix things. I really, really do believe that what we're seeing now, I believe for the first time in history is through digital and social platforms the ability for consumers who never had a voice in the past to have a voice and to stand up and say I don't believe in this. This is what I stand for. This is how we need to change. And if you think about communications that go out from people who would in the past only get their information from one direction, from the media, from tv, from print, without being able to have a discussion around it in a large forum, that's all change. And if we beautiful destinations, we can use our audience and our community to push sustainable travel and inspire people to have these travel experiences but have an impact on the planet, then everybody benefits. And I think to your point, it is the changing nature of consumption that will be the biggest driver of things and then industry will catch up. But I think there's also an opportunity maybe not to just purely bash the big industry guys and just say, you're the issue. So we're going to completely vilify you. I think there is an opportunity to make them accountable and say, why don't you guys change your practices? Because a huge multinational corporation with tens, if not hundreds of millions of customers is going to be able to have a much, much bigger impact on the environment that me as an individual use an individual, are going to to be able to have. So if we put pressure on those people to make the right decisions, then we can have a much bigger impact on a global scale.

I love that. Right. When you finish that, the sound of a dump truck probably emptying trash just intruded on our studio. Like, man, the punctuation from the world.

Around the tone a little bit.

I have one more question for you. You talk about sustainability, which is good. It means the world will be around for a while. But I want to know. And you have an early copy of Superhuman, so you. You know my number. But how long do you think you're going to live, given all the weird places you go, all the travel you do? I mean, you kind of take some hits.

Yeah. Yeah. Really. I mean, to be honest, I knew this question was coming. I know from the podcast that that question comes and people will say, you know, 180, 120, 100. Really? The number itself doesn't matter to me. What really, really matters to me is the quality of life that I have. And if I can get to whatever age it is that is right for me to get to where I have a happy, healthy, cognitive life surrounded by the people that I care about, and I can stop and say, I don't have any regrets from the places that I've been, the things that I've done and the experiences that I've had, at that time, I'll be good to go. And if that's 80, if that's 60, if that's 120, I'm good.

So live like every day might be your last.

Yeah, all right.

I love that advice. Your website is beautiful. Website, Instagram handle. Yeah, yeah, get us a website. Sorry, I'm old.

Yeah. No, Instagram is the best way to.

Get HTTP, that old thing. When I was a kid, I had HTTP both ways to school. All right, so Instagram, beautiful destinations.

Yeah.

And your content's inspiring. Just the way you think about travel and about what it does to you into the world is really cool and interesting. So thank you so much for being on the show.

Thanks, Dave. My pleasure, Sa.