Reclaim Your Health Freedom & Understand Systems Keeping Us Sick - Ivor Cummins | 1085 | Dave Asprey

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Formerly. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today we're going to talk about complex problem solving and insulin resistance and heart health and why it's probably not just a cholesterol thing. But I want you to learn how to think about that today. And our guest is a Dublin based biochemical engineer who, because he's an engineer, thinks about this kind of a problem in a way that's more like a biohacker than maybe like a specialist in hearts. And he's worked on this for about 30 years and has a very unique ability to talk about complex topics in simple terms, which is something I also greatly value. You might not know this, but I spent five years teaching at the University of California. I taught the first generation of engineers working on web 1.0 how to build web and the cloud. And taking these complex things and making them simple is a skill set that's very different than knowing how stuff works. And it's very different than even being able to heal someone. It's just, how do we get it into our consciousness in a way so we can have pictures in our heads that help us operate in the world in areas where we aren't experts? He's the host of the Fat Emperor podcast. His name is Ivor Cummins. Welcome to the show, Ivor.

Hey, it's great to be here, Dave. It's a privilege. I remember 10 years ago when I embarked on this health journey and you're one of the first guys I picked up on when I discovered there was a whole low carb, higher fat world out there.

Well, thank you. Thanks for being a listener as well. And, you know, there was a lot of pushback and I, you know, we like to think, you know, we're, we're the, the guys who did this, but I have on my shelf over there a copy of, from 1972 of Robert Atkins book who was saying, hey, maybe you could eat fat. And I keep that book because it's a reminder that, yeah, I spent a couple million dollars first on getting well and then on getting younger and staying younger. But man, the information did exist. It just wasn't evenly distributed. And so getting information that on things that work out into the world so it becomes part of our consciousness as humans is really hard work. And it always comes up against the, the people who say, well, that's the way it's always been. And like, these are the same people who would make fun of the guy who said, hey, what if you wash your hands before you deliver a baby? Maybe the babies and moms die less and they made fun of him, ran him out. He actually got put in an asylum where he was beaten to death for, you know, for such amazing, amazing work. So our job is to help our understanding and awareness of being human just so it gets better. So I think you're doing a great job of that and I appreciate you coming on. Talk to me about the Fat Emperor. Why did you come up with a name like that for your blog?

Yeah, well, actually that was kind of a triple layer metaphor, Dave. And after a few months I'd done the heavy research and research gate and PubMed after I got poor blood tests and I went my own way. I didn't know there was a low carb movement. I actually had the arrogance to think I discovered this myself, that my problems were due to excessive healthy whole grains and vegetable oils and they were not due to fat and meat and ancestral foods. So I thought I'd really discovered something. And then I realized there was a bigger network out there. But myself and the wife one evening were chatting and it just occurred to me, this kind of metaphor. So I was very well aware that there was the emperor's clothes, like Hans Christian Andersen, that many researchers understood that the cholesterol paradigm was incorrect, but they kept their mouth shut because funding and their reputation required it. And then there was the emperor, signified for me corporate power. I'm a corporate guy for 25 years and I know the power that pharma and food industry had so signified that. And finally there was the poor fat emperor, the obese diabetic, you know, person in their 50s and they're being told to eat more healthy whole grains and eat more juice and eat fruit and they're insulin resistant. Just this sad image. So that was it. It was a metaphor.

It's a good metaphor. And it's exactly what's going on. And we're seeing it in the world of health. There are still people, people out there saying, oh, you should eat a plant based diet and more seed oils. And the evidence is overwhelming that that just doesn't work. But they just keep saying it. And you can tell the ones who believe it because their faces are falling off, they're obese and they're, you know, running big companies. There's a, a famous billionaire who likes to donate money to quasi government organizations that then support the companies he invests in. And he doesn't exactly look like the picture of health. In fact, he looks like a Potato. And that's because he doesn't know how to eat. But he believes his own bullshit. Right? And it'd be another thing if he was a walking slab of muscle and he believed the bullshit because that would be sociopathy. It's probably just deep narcissism. Right? Because when you believe your own story, despite the fact that you have a mirror and you can see this isn't working, you'll do what? An early doctor, when they said, well, maybe you should try to lose weight, told me that. I'm like, oh, you think, like, I've done everything and I'm trying to figure out why my labs are bad and, you know, why I feel sick all the time. And, you know, I looked at the doctor, said, well, why, why don't you try to lose weight? Oh, yeah, well, you know, I, I just don't follow my own advice. But if I did follow my advice, I would, you know, I would be thin. I'm like, well, yeah, that's because your advice isn't followable. That's the issue we're dealing with. So I love it that you use biochemical engineering to do this. And so what was your wake up call? I mean, you'd been eating this bad whey for 25 years and what did your lab show was going on with you. Yeah.

Well, Dave, it just occurs to me, as you said, that the picture I'm sure you've seen of Mark Sisson juxtaposed against Ornish, same age, it's an interesting contrast. But yeah, in 2012, I got blood test results, routine. And the doctor kind of said, oh, some of these are high. So I kind of read them upside down over or in front of her on her desk. And I could see, wow. You know, I knew from numbers that I was way outside the normal range. And it was gamma glutamyl transferase A, liver enzyme, serum ferritin, the iron loading in the blood and cholesterol was very high. But I could see I was so high that statistically I was way outside, like three sigma, something like that. So I thought, this has to be meaningful. So I quizzed the doctor very upfront, like I do with all technical teams when I'm brought in to lead a problem. I said, what are the implications of these numbers approximately, and what are the root causes that would tend to drive them up that I can address. And I got very poor answers. So I went to a family friend, very experienced doctor, similar problem, and a professor of medicine who was connected through the family, similar problem. I got some Ideas like hemochromatosis or the iron. Got a test negative and I got eat more whole grains for the cholesterol. You know, you're probably eating too much fat or meat. And I thought that doesn't make sense. And ggt, perhaps you're drinking too much wine. But I knew at the time my alcohol consumption for my body weight, there's no way it could drive a number that high.

You're in Ireland, I'm assuming. Right. So it would have been Guinness. Right.

Well, they were aware, some of the family connected doctors that I did enjoy wine. So they had insider information.

All right, good deal.

But I kind of. So what I did was I did the research. I had corporate logons to PubMed and ResearchGate and I said, okay, where do I start? Well, I start with these three biometrics or blood tests. And I just hit them hard evenings and weekends obsessively. And my wife thought I'd gone crazy. But I was very interested because if three doctors and a couple of them are really good people and a professor don't understand their own basic standard blood tests, there's some huge thing to be discovered. I knew it and there was. So I did the research and within a couple of weeks I had insulin resistance. Biggest pathological kind of state in the world. No one had said anything about it. I began to get into cholesterol and then I got into the lipoproteins and then I literally couldn't be stopped because of the whole lipoprotein transport system. Fascinated me. And I went on and in a few weeks I simply switched the diet and nothing else. I didn't change the amount of wine. I'm not going to confound my experiment. I was very confident and I switched to meat. Fish and eggs and above ground vegetables and I eliminated all the whole grains, fruit juices, most of the fruit. Stopped eating any of the confectionery or chocolates because I ate a bit of that and I just switched to real food. And in the first couple of weeks I had difficulty eating all the fatty meat because I was psychologically programmed to perceive that as dangerous. And I noticed this psychological.

Scary. Yeah, yeah. I mean the thing that Tony Robbins does and I've spoken on his main stage a few times and, and you go to the, the walk on coal things and you see people standing there at the edge of this burning embers and to take that first foot and just to step into it, it's a major thing. Like you could die and you know you're not going to Die, but it feels like you're going to die, and then you do it and you feel liberated. I feel like the first time someone takes a bite of fatty ribeye or the first time you put a pad of good old Kerrygold in your blender with your coffee, it feels dangerous, but it's not. It just. It feels dangerous. Right, so you overcame that yourself. Yeah.

Well, luckily I had no questions from the research. I had hundreds of papers at this stage piled up on my hard drive and printed out all over my home office because I was pretty serious about it. I was using the tools of problem solving, comparative analysis, root cause diagram and hypothesis for against kind of spreadsheets, what I'd used for decades. So I was totally confident. But this psychological niggle. And then I realized, well, I've been programmed my whole adult life that fatty meats cause heart attacks, so it was understandable. And after a couple of weeks, it wore off and then the weight fell off.

So after a week it falls off. Right. Oh, now, were you, were you full keto or were you still doing some carbs?

I didn't even know keto existed. I had not.

You don't have to be in keto for this to work, right?

No. And at the time, I didn't even know there was a low carb movement because I had gone straight to the literature and I missed all of that around me. I mean, I had heard of Atkins that caused heart attacks, et cetera, but I never really thought too much about it. But I didn't know. I didn't know about the communities or keto. So I just did it. Meat, fish and eggs, very low carb, eliminated the carb. I had discovered Professor Volok, who was amazing, you know, in his published papers, and within a few weeks, the weight started falling off. And then I discovered something unexpected. Because I was never looking at weight loss, I realized my appetite had come under exquisite control for the first time in my adult life. I'd been overweight since I was 20, and I just couldn't believe it. So, so amusing to me. I began to skip meals almost for sport. So I go into work now, in fairness, the weight fell off massively, not just because I switched to the correct food, but it enabled me to skip meals because my appetite was under complete control. So there was a double whammy. But the weight came off. Like, some people met me after six weeks who hadn't seen me, and literally they were speechless for a few seconds.

Did they get worried, like, oh, you're, you're losing weight too Fast. You're going to die. It's so scary. You're starving yourself. Go eat some cheesecake. Did you. I got a lot of that when I lost weight.

Yeah, it depends on how much because I was quite overweight. Even the dramatic change in six or eight weeks, it didn't leave me skinny per se. I didn't have a really slim look, but I was a pretty heavy set guy and all the fat melted away, so I was still chunky, but. But I look more like a physical trainer. So that was the comment from one person in the pub. He said, jesus, you look like one of these kind of guru physical trainer types. And it was a spontaneous comment. So I didn't look very slim. I looked just kind of built, you know, it.

It's remarkable how fast you can change. And the. I actually was very angry when I did this because I lost the first time I got into this. I don't talk about this that often. I lost 50 pounds in three months. I also didn't know about keto. This was sometime in the 90s. And I had cut carbs, but not entirely. I was still drinking orange juice and I would eat rice and fruit and things, but I had cut out grains and probably also just up my protein without knowing it. And I was just like, why didn't someone tell me this? Because I've been fat and struggling and hungry my whole life. And then when I finally really understood this and that kind of got me into nutrition and doing all the research, reading PubMed and all that, and when I finally got it dialed in to the point that I was just never hungry, I could eat, but I could eat or I could not eat. And I realized that my whole life had been cravings and I would go from one craving to another to another. We're just constantly hungry. And that there was a sense of peace around food and it, it reminds me a friend recently I convinced to increase her animal protein intake and she sent me a text and said my. When I was 18, I was diagnosed with a binge eating disorder and for the first time in my adult life, and this is, you know, 20 plus years later, the first time in my adult life I'm not hungry and I don't know what to do because I've learned to always have a gnawing hunger and to just sit with it, but now it's gone and I don't know how to deal with not being hungry all the time and that kind of freedom. How many people listening to the show right now? It could be a million People who are hungry right now for. For no good reason, because their government or their doctor failed them and told them to eat crap that makes them hungry all the time. Do you, do you get pissed off about that?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was so angry and yet elated together. It was a weird feeling, probably similar to yourself back in those days, but my anger at the system that could have lied to me for, like, decades, and the millions more people out there, hundreds of millions whose lives were kind of messed up because, of course, metabolic syndrome and everything that goes in insulin resistance affects the psychology as well. And you've got a lot of depression. That lifts a lot when you fix these matters, like we're saying. So I was really annoyed. So that's why I began to give lectures in my corporate. Up to 100 engineers at a time. And they were watching me, the tech guy, suddenly talking about, you know, weight loss, metabolic syndrome. So it's quite funny, but I had this zeal to get the message out. You alluded to that earlier. And luckily, Mike Eads, Dr. Mike Eads, protein Power, became a good pal. One of my first big videos, Cholesterol Conundrum, explaining the lipoprotein system in detail. He picked up that and wrote to me. And then my network grew and my reach grew. So it felt great to just let people know by the hundreds of thousands what the answer was. You know, and it's not that complicated. As you said, if you just eat real food, as in meat, fish, eggs, and maybe some vegetables that are not starchy, just do that, the appetite, within a week or two, maybe with a little bit of adaptation, you know, you got to get used to it and your microbiome shift a little, but a couple of weeks later, you are free. It's incredible.

It is that simple. There. Maybe you'll be more comfortable if you take digestive enzymes for the first six weeks as your body learns how to digest fat and how to digest protein. And honestly, you've been telling your body that there's a famine, that there's a lack of available good quality food. So you're living off whatever you can get, which looks like corn flakes and whole grains. We didn't even have enough energy to remove the toxic outer part of the grain. That's how much of a famine we were in. And so, yeah, your body's gonna have to adjust to a world of plenty, which means it can partition energy differently and insulin can shift and all that. So I wanna ask you one more thing about carbs, and we're gonna Talk about some of the stuff that's happening in the world where there are people actively trying to. To prevent us from having access to these foods. And we're gonna go deep on that. I'm. I'm pretty disturbed by the things that I know. And I know that you've been speaking out about this a lot. So tell me about insulin and why. Why you think it matters compared to cholesterol.

Right. Well, I have one study I often show, and I just love it because it puts insulin versus cholesterol in such clear light. And it was a Colombian study on men who had a prior heart attack, and they measured all their bloods pretty carefully, and then they followed them for seven years to see who would have a second heart attack, which is very important, obviously, what blood measures predicted, to an extent, the second heart attack that they had. And the result came back so clear because often there's noise in the data and physiology is complex, yet yada, yada. So cholesterol total had zero predictive power, so no statistical significance. The risk ratio was 1.0.

Okay.

Unsurprisingly, LDL, which is a little better, that came up as no predictive power.

It does have predictive power. People with higher LDL have longer lifespans, right?

Yeah. Well, in terms of longevity, yes, which is not what industry likes. But in terms of even heart attacks, outside of junk epidemiology. And then they had blood pressure, and that one scored 1.9 hazard ratio, or double your chance with higher blood pressure to have that second heart attack. But then they had insulin, and it wasn't even advanced, like post glucose insulin. It was just insulin kind of homa, and that was 6.7 times more likely with higher insulin. So in one little study, you.

Insulin's hard to measure, though, right? So it's easy to measure cholesterol. So we should focus on cholesterol because we can measure it like. Like the drunk guy looking for his keys underneath the light pole instead of where he lost them. That's kind of cholesterol medicine, right?

Essentially, yeah. But also there's an enormous industry built up around it. But even before the statin industry, copper fastened the paradigm, I think it was 1981 or two. I gave a recent talk and I took old slides. The NIH consensus committee in America pulled together all the scientists to close the case that cholesterol was the primary or the major driver of heart attacks. And the dissenting scientists all spoke up. There's some famous clips from that review, and they were just drowned out. And from then on, it was clear if you, if you go against this consensus, you're an outsider, you're probably dealing in misinformation. So it was sealed even before the drug industry got on it, just by the whole Ancel Keys and American Heart association nonsense.

It's a good thing that science is a democracy and that anyone who doesn't agree with what the majority agrees with is guilty of misinformation. Because now that we've established these core facts, profits are much better.

Everyone'S happy, or everyone who's on the big boat is happy.

Well, all right, let's assume the preponderance of evidence is that the medical field doesn't know anything about what to eat as a whole. There are certainly lots of doctors, you and I know them, a lot of them listen to the show who figured this out. They're helping patients all the time. But the field itself, what they're teaching in medical school is at best wrong and at worst evil. Would you agree?

Yeah, unfortunately, I think medical school from all my doctor network, you know, you get a few hours in the few years and that's it. And I'm not even sure it's really obligatory. It's a cursory glance at nutrition. So the medical universities, education basically, and I know someone recently who's just gone through the first four years, they covered in first year a tiny bit of nutrition, an absolutely risable joke level of insulin and metabolic syndrome and the real important stuff, and that was it. Then after that, the following years they cover other topics and clinical care, et cetera. So the doctors are not being taught the important stuff and they've literally got to find it out on the Internet. The bottom line, to simplify it is it's not that insulin is the one ring to rule them all, and it's everything that criticism sometimes comes against our side. It's just the Pareto principle that insulin and homa and post glucose insulin levels and all of that hyperinsulinemia problem is so huge. It's, it's the quarterback in, in chronic disease. And recently, the last thing I'll say, Dave, actually a study I love is about the metabolic syndrome. And it's more than you think. And what this team did was they took hundreds if not a thousand papers on metabolic syndrome, which is insulin resistance syndrome, of course, and they pulled out the 58 or so that had measured insulin because most don't even measure insulin. Metabolic syndrome papers, and they looked at these 58 papers and they covered Parkinson's, type 2 diabetes, of course, cardiac disease, PCOS, some rheumatoid conditions. And they noted that in 95% of those 58 papers that measured insulin, insulin tracked closely with the progression of the disease. And they were saying, my God, insulin is so important. And of course, cholesterol didn't even figure. So it's just the big, big thing to fix. And if you address insulin and get it right down where it should be, you've kind of covered most of what you need to do. Not all, but most.

Well, the evidence is there for that. Now, let's assume we're going to ignore all of the evidence and that we are a non elected body called the who and we wanted to force people to purchase the most profitable foods and to force them to purchase medicines, whether they needed them or not, or whether they're even based on good science or not. What would you do? Tell me about the upcoming WHO treaty.

Yeah, okay. This is kind of really worrying. So the WHO on the back of the whole Covid thing, they're going for gold now, and countries all over the world, they want to sign up to an international pandemic treaty. And the idea there is that the WHO in the future will become the kind of authority on any or all pandemics. They also are the ones who declare a pandemic. And interestingly, in 2008, they sat down with top pharmaceutical industry people. This is all documented in Der Spiegel magazine after the swine flu scam. And they agreed to take out the severity clause from the pandemic definition.

They changed the definition, right?

Yeah. All on the record. They took out the huge death and impact clause and they left it just that. A new virus without prior immunity, broad spread, is in multiple countries and spreading. In other words, anything could be a pandemic, pretty much any virus.

Doesn't the WHO itself meet the requirements to being a pandemic? Because the WHO is killing a lot of people and it's spreading. And so what we need to do is stamp it out. Unless I'm doing the math wrong, I'm just trying to follow their definition.

I think a vaccine for WHO maladies would be very appropriate if only we could get one.

The bottom line is treaties are not something you vote for. And this is assuming that voting works at the current state of things. But let's be very clear. If your government signs a treaty that takes away your government's power and takes away your power, you didn't vote for that. So this is a case where voting doesn't work, because voting isn't involved in treaties. And this WHO Treaty looks a little bit scary. Tell me what's going on with that.

Yeah, well, they've. They've changed. Their wording for the international health regulations are changing and the treaty is coming in. So the international health regulations, currently, I think in many places in them, the word non binding is written because when it was negotiated way back, it of course is non binding because you can't have the WHO or any other unelected body, of course, having binding control over what a sovereign country does. It would be.

What was that word used? Sovereign country. Do those exist anymore in the. In. In the current?

Maybe back when they originally did these health kind of treaties, etc. They kind of did, but now I agree after Covid, it's a real mess. But they remove non binding all the way through the documentation for the new regulations next year and for the treaty. So they claim that, oh, they're not taking over the country's sovereignty. The countries will still have their own sovereignty to make their own decisions. We'll just be advising. So why did you take out non binding from all of the documentation? Come on, come on.

There's been a history of bullying from the WHO and one of the previous pandemic scams. And I'm saying this. I wrote a piece at the beginning of the pandemic called the Pandemic Business Model. And I went through since the late 80s how Foushee, for the most part, and a few others have about every four years created a pandemic, used pandemic math, which is another lecture I did, where you could go out and you could say, well, if we have 20 people in the hospital, these are the sick ones, right? And if five of them die, there's a 25% death rate, global emergency. Of course, the real infection rate is much higher. I did the math across all the pandemics, and about 1/65 of the initial reported death rate is the average death rate for these pandemics. And they'll publish that about two years later after they forced billions of dollars of drug sales. So in Sweden, for instance, I believe this was probably either SARS or bird flu or one of those. I forget which one off the top of my head. They said everyone has to buy Tamiflu. And the government of Sweden did its own math and said, this is absurd. It doesn't reduce risk and the risk isn't very high anyway. So they negotiated with the WHO and finally agreed to buy $8 million worth of Tamiflu that they didn't want, only for their health care workers. And I know one very well who was in the meeting at the hospital where the head of the hospital laughed and tossed out a bag full of boxes of Tamiflu and said, hey guys, we were forced to buy these. If you want some, you can take it home. And they left the bag on the table. Now, Sweden also had the most sane response to the pandemic, at least for the first year and a half. And their death rate was not the highest. In fact, it was towards the lower end of things. And if they'd have protected their older people in a way we didn't know to do at the beginning, it would have been even lower. But regardless, what's happening here is for years the WHO has been bullying governments to buy things that make money for the people, the private individuals and private companies who fund the who. It's the biggest conflict of interest. And I don't think it should even be legal for the US government to sign a treaty with these people, because this is not a treaty with another government. And since when can your government do that? What's happening in Europe with this WHO thing? Are people rioting? If they were, we wouldn't see it on the news.

No, there. I mean, there was a lot of pushback against Covid for sure, but it was absolutely suppressed in the media. And I think we kind of know that goes back to the 50s Rockefeller influence. And in fairness, they were instrumental in setting up the un Prior to that, it was the League of Nations, they set up the Trilateral Commission. And yet everything in it is fully published. Because as you can imagine, Dave, or I'm sure you know, if you start talking about big secretive banking families behind the curtain, you're now your critics can get you hard because you can't prove it. The beauty of the Rockefeller story is it answers everything you need to know and it's all fully published. So I love that. And that's one thing getting people to.

Be aware that you said 40 minutes. What are you talking about there?

Oh, that's Dr. Jakob Nordengard's original talk that I put in my YouTube and it got big view numbers and I've since done versions and I've gone to Stockholm and done a two hour in person interview with them. I just see that story as crucial because I'm a corporate guy and I'm familiar with PR and managing propaganda. And the reality is if you come out with stuff that might be conspiracy theory and is not fully published, you're open to attack. So I love the fact that his full history research of the Rockefeller Family right through to the UN, the G20 and the EU Commission is all documented. And once you see that history, you're inoculated against nonsense from then on. So if people can understand that factual published history, and it covers climate and Covid and financial crashes, because these are all the tools of the world, government wannabes and the un. And then the other side is to do the opposite of what they want wherever you can. And that's using cash, local food suppliers, and just in principle doing the opposite of what they'd like us to do. But I think awareness is the big one because if you could get a tipping point of a sizable minority of people to really step up and question, then things could get really interesting. But during COVID and even now with growing minority becoming aware something is rotten, we just need a bigger minority to really make some waves.

One thing that a lot of people don't know about is that Bill Gates father, do you know who he worked for?

I only heard a few weeks ago after eight months of pushing Nordengerd's history. And apparently I was told by Professor Richard Werner, the inventor of quantitative easing in Amsterdam. I interviewed. And in the middle of the interview he casually dropped out. That Gates father was a lawyer with the Rockefellers, a big deal.

Exactly like, who would have thought? So if you look on, on this side of the Atlantic, Rockefeller massive problem was just setting up this global. It's actually a hallucination that he's creating. It's like a spell that's been cast on everyone where we have these stories that were told and most wars the US has been in, the story about how they're started is a total lie. But we started most of them with false flag attacks and all sorts of stuff. And that's a part of it. So this story you hear about reality, much of quote, reality isn't actually real when you look at the facts. And these are things that are printed, things that are written down, things that are documented. And the other thing here is J.P. morgan. I mean the whole structure of society was set up by this evil monopolist. And you look at the evolution of oil, I must control it all. And then I must, oh, I can make chemical companies out of oil, okay? Anything that competes with chemicals will take it down. So he took down electrical medicine, he took down natural medicine, took down acupuncture, instituted these schools where everyone has to go to school and march to the same bells that have like the, the bells that ring in a school are exactly the same ones that they had at manufacturing warehouses. And manufacturing plants to make good workers out of people. So there's this entire agenda that a couple monopolist people put in place. And this is about treating you and me like we're the masses who are going to serve them and creating a society and a story for society to make that happen. And I'm fine if they want to do that because it is a free country. It seems like it's evil, but you have a choice to not participate. But when you start adding treaties that are going to change things, or even worse, the central bank digital currencies. And if you're listening to this, I don't talk a lot about crypto. I know a lot about it because of my computer science background and I've actually involved with a crypto hedge fund in my, my other life. But central bank digital currencies basically take away your money and replace it with electrons. That's funny, that's what your American Express card or your credit card or your bank account is anyway. But this is money that can be tracked so they can limit what you spend it on. And these clowns who make money from you being sick are going to limit your right to purge, purchase food that's healthy and they're going to use a carbon footprint as the excuse, which is insane because number one, you can't track carbon footprint. Number two, the people making you do stuff don't pay attention to their own carbon footprint because they're better than you. And number three, if you eat more grass fed meats, cows poop, poop makes soil. Soil is the world's biggest carbon sink. And I did write the first check that launched what is now $100 million, Elon Musk's carbon capture prize. I, I think we can control carbon on the planet. I have no issue with that. But in the meantime, these douchebags are spraying atrazine and other chemicals that mess with our hormones and are lowering fertility and really destroying human health. They're selling those pesticides, they're putting them all over the planet while telling you to pay attention to carbon and saying, oh, don't worry, we'll take away your bank account, replace it with these little coupons that you can spend only in ways we want. That world simply won't stand. Because I know at least on this side, this side of the Atlantic, there are at least 100 million people who are well armed, who are not going to eat bugs and they're not going to eat soy burgers. They just won't. They'll eat politicians before they do. And I, I don't want that to happen because politicians are made out of meat and that's a horrible world. We don't want it to go there. Do you have hope that central backed or central bank digital currencies are going to get stopped or do you think this is just a slow slide into a really bad system?

Yeah, it's a tricky one, but you're absolutely right. It's the most horrific threat to our future yet since COVID and all of the passports and ID cards. And it's arguable that the ID cards and the COVID vaccine and the whole Covid nonsense may have very much been a key part of the strategy for cbdc because you need the global ID cards, QR codes, whatever, and people didn't want to accept them without a crisis. So it's a big worry. I think there's quite a few legal things happening in America and challenges to the constitutionality in principle of a central bank digital currency going back to the Constitution.

I think that's not an issue. I heard that they just declared it null and void in the us. Oh yeah. So it was. Yeah, it was old. It needed to be rewritten. So we hired the WHO to rewrite it. Don't worry. Anyway, keep going.

Ah, okay. That, that's not good news. Now I know people weren't depending on that because there's legal loopholes around that, etc. But that's bad. It'll be back to awareness. What you said about central bank digital currency and I'm not sure. Did you see the video clip of Karstanz, the head of the bank of International Settlements? The enormous kind of spherical blob man?

No, I'll send you it afterwards.

It is incredible. 50 minutes of a man so hyper obese. He's fascinating to look at. I think he's South American. Originally central banker. He's now the head of the bank of International Settlements, which is the central bank of central banks. It is the head of the snake up the top.

No kidding. Because the central banks all just make money by printing money and loaning out money they don't have and all of that. This is like one of the most lucrative business models. Even more lucrative than selling drugs that make you sick and then selling other drugs to heal the sickness you caused. That's the second most profitable business model, right?

Well, the BIS bank of International Settlements, they're the top of the heap. And along with all the other top leader banks around the world and central banks, they are of course trustees of the World Economic forum and on their board. So all of it joins together. But Carsten's in his accent, I won't do his accent. And, but he said this expression of central bank digital or liability, that is the cbdc, he said the most crucial part is right now we don't know who spends a peso here, who spends a dollar here, but with cbdc we will know every transaction and we will have the power to implement or not that transaction. In other words, they will have total control over every transaction, every individual. And like you said, and Professor Werner said, it's currently digital for decades. The new thing in CBDC is not the D for digital, it's the C for central. There is no reasons for it except power. And they're going for gold and it's massively dangerous.

So we're both engineers and I've spent the first half of my career building extremely fault tolerant, high performance systems. The Internet is based on that. And what you always find is that when you create something called a Spock, a single point of failure or a single point of control, you make a system that is unstable. So every system I've ever architected, you have to have more than one of everything, including control systems. That way when one of them goes down, you have another one to take over. And if you want high availability, you want more of these, not less. So the most elegant, highly resilient system that you can have is fully distributed. So if we had distributed power generation, distributed food generation, distributed decision making around the planet, what you end up with is a system where some parts of it may have problems, but the overall system is robust and almost indestructible. And when you do the opposite of that, which is what these people are trying to do, by creating a single point of control and a single point of failure in world government, every time this has ever been done on a national level, it has ended in starvation for millions every single time. Because it turns out bureaucrats are terrible at knowing how much bread you're going to order. But the economy is pretty good at that. So the hubris and the ego required to think that you are going to do better than a distributed system, it boggles my mind. Because you can look at this from technology, you can look at this from, from sociology, from politics, from history. There is no argument mathematically that we're creating a better system by doing this. What we are is creating a system that centralizes power for people who are power hungry instead of people who are life hungry. Even Elon Musk talked. I believe it was to The UN General Assembly. I may be wrong about which body it was, but it was a large body of world leaders. And he, as politely as Elon's capable of, said there might be an argument for having diversity because you have diversity of types of government and diversity of governments. Well, usually governments fail over time. Most of them don't last for more than 250 years. By the way, the US is overdue at that point because we're a little bit over that. Where they funny, they usually inflate their currencies and fall under the weight of their own regulations. Who would ever think of that happening in the us? So maybe having these different levels and types of governments around the world is actually in humanity's best interest rather than a bunch of soy pushing but meat eating bureaucrats deciding who's going to get what. That just seems like a really bad idea to me. I am a little bit flummoxed to choose a $6 word. I don't really know what to do about it. My kids are actually asking me like, what are we supposed to do in the future here? And yes, have some chickens is a really good idea. They are trying to ban chicken ownership because they might have viruses. By the way, in the UK it's illegal to own a female pig unless you're a big company because, well, how dare you make your own bacon, right? So there's stuff like that going on even for food sovereignty. But maybe let's say you have some money, you can have a ranch and you have some animals, that's a very small percentage of people. The rest of us, you can use cash, which honestly I don't usually use cash when I travel, but I know I should, but I know I probably don't and half the places don't take cash anymore, so that's kind of out of the bag. And then you can support small farmers, which I do on a regular basis, as much as I can. I have them on the show. I've started my own 32 acre farm. Those are extreme measures by most people. So if you're living in an apartment, you're on a normal salary, you can go to a farmer's market and you know, get some cash from an atm. Other than that. And that's not going to stop this. It just delays it. Is there anything to be done?

Oh, keeps coming back to that old chestnut. Yeah, I think you do what you can and it'll depend on what you have access to, etc. You got a farm, that's great. I got a little bit of land in Ireland and I'll have a bolt hole there. But to be honest, that's only hedging and it's only backstopping and it's only emergency kind of hedgery. It's not going to change the future. And eventually the regulators and the cold hand of the state will. Will come onto your shoulder down wherever you are, I have no doubt. So you'd have to depend on awareness of what is going on to get a sizable minority to start talking about it. When the minority is too small, like against Covid regulations, et cetera, you know, they can be dismissed as quacks, it's quite easy for the system to dismiss them, it's a minority. But when the minority gets sizable, it's not easy to to dismiss. There's a tipping point where a lot of people are acknowledging there's something seriously wrong and they're discussing what the media won't cover. It's going to be tough to get that, but that's what's needed. It needs to become part of the open conversation. Like people 30 years ago, they discussed real controversial politics. I mean, we had Watergate, we had investigative reporters. I mean, right now the media is gone. Investigative journalism is gone. It'll take grassroots to try and refill that space. And unless it does, they'll keep marching on with hordes of useful idiots, as you referred to. I mean, they are replete with useful idiots. They've got whole bureaucratic and public service departments, massive universities all over the world and academics, a massive army of useful idiots right now that are just marching along with the nonsense. So we need to oppose it. Awareness. Stand up more.

Thanks for being a part of sharing information that I consider to be trustworthy and real and keep doing it. And where can people find your stuff? The best you mentioned YouTube channel, mentioned your podcast. What's your best contact place?

Yeah, no, thanks so much, Dave. Again, a privilege to come on here. Delighted. And I guess you can still search just my name, Ivor Cummins. And you quickly hit the YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, which are the main ones. And metabolic duo.com I run with Gabor Doshi, a metabolic expert. So we recently set up a kind of a club, a small subscription to go through Metabolic Science in a practical way, but that's pretty much it. And I haven't been banned. Amazingly, some of my friends in the network are astonished. I have not been fully taken off certain platforms. But I've always written the Razor's Edge and everything I've said is always trackable to a published Source. And I think that's important, too, for all of us to be careful not to stray into stuff that might be incorrect.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you there, Ivar. You have a fundamental right to be fully wrong and still exist and still be a part of society. And by the way, I am speaking to my friends at the WHO and WF you are fully wrong, I support your right to be wrong. I do not support your right to make me do. And as long as we can agree to that, we have a peaceful society. And that's what. That's what we all want, right? So I'm not going to make anyone do anything against their will. And in return, they must not make me do anything. It's my will. I'm talking about 5th grade teachings right now, but apparently some of those haven't leaked out into the world. So we need a more peaceful society right now, and one that respects your right to choose the food that works for you and to make the decisions that work for you, even if it's inconvenient for someone else's profit. That's all right. You have to serve me, and then you get more of my money. You don't get to take over my control of how I spend my money so you can do a worse job of serving me. That will not succeed. I remain hopeful, and I think we have a peaceful solution to the problem that is at hand. It's part technology and it's part changing our behavior, but mostly it's breaking the spell of nonsense. The story of history from the last 1940s on that we've been told is just not real. And when you understand the systems of power, the way you teach it, the way I teach it, the systems of biology, they have a lot of commonalities. And it means there's a lot of choice, a lot of hope, and a lot of freedom that can happen. So thank you, my friend.

Thank you, Dave.

If you liked today's episode, let me know on social media. Like I said, guys, I don't believe in political parties. I am not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. Just let me eat what I want to eat and let me change my environment for the better. And let me do that for my kids. And let me teach you how to do it for yourself and your kids, and that's it. You can be red, you can be blue, you can be purple, you can be pink. I don't care. I'll talk with you. I'll be friends with you. And I like people who believe things different than me. It's not because they're full of misinformation. It's because they're different. And that's fine, too. So your homework, should you choose to accept it, is if you identify as being a member of a political party because your mind has been poisoned. And pretty much, it's like being in support of one football team versus another, go make a friend who believes the opposite of what you believe and sit down and have dinner with them. Even if they're eating soy burgers and you're eating ribeye, it doesn't matter. Figure out why they believe what they believe because you might learn something. And that is the first step to being cognitively free. I'll see you on the next show. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.