Reverse Tissue Aging: The Power of Wasabi Method with Adam Gavine | 1173 | Dave Asprey

In 1980 in Germany, a doctor in Munich started using shockwave to break up kidney stones. And after a while, they started noticing some of these patients that had had, say, like, back pain for years and years. They were coming back and going like, oh, my back pain's way better after you got rid of my kidney stones. And so they were like, oh, that's really interesting. Let's see what it can do to soft tissue.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. This is an in person episode recorded right before the 10th annual biohacking conference, the event that launched what is now a $63 billion industry in only 10 years. It still blows my mind about 3,000 people coming this year. And one of them is Adam Gavin, who is a chiropractor with 17 years of experience. And he and I have been working for the past, oh, year and a half or so on a new technology for longevity that is incredibly broad spectrum. As you know, in the longevity world, if you can go lower down in your cells, in your systems, you have lots of effects that you'll feel. For instance, if you were to say, I'm going to work on, you know, just the surface of my skin with something, well, that can help. But if you were to say, I'm going to fix my mitochondria or I'm going to change blood flow, well, changing blood flow or fixing mitochondria, it's going to affect your brain, it's going to affect the local tissues, it's going to affect you systemically. So I'm always looking for something that lets you get very low down, so you get these broad effects. You've also heard me talk about stem cells. I've done, I would say probably more than most, if not any other person. And I'm not a big fan of umbilical cells for a variety of reasons, but I've done lots of my own cells and, good God, hundreds of other crazy treatments out there. And one of the ones that you heard me talk about, oh, five, six years ago is I use something called shockwave therapy on my, I don't know, the technical term for the penis that Instagram and all the other things will not make you bleep out. So if that's bleeped out on my stuff.

Reproductive organ.

Reproductive organs.

There we go.

And, yeah, why we can't just talk about that without various AI systems getting offended, I don't quite understand. But anyway, so I did that and that was my introduction to this type of technology that some people call shockwave. And that's like a protected term in the US there's 20 different companies claim they own it. Globally, it's a common thing. What this is is it's a pressure wave that you can apply almost anywhere on the body. And what it does is it introduces perturbations or vibrations using something like sound that go into your tissues and they create micro bubbles that cause all kinds of systemic effects in the body. Like really potent system wide things like stem cells and something called vegf. So my first experience was doing it on my reproductive system. And I was underwhelmed the first time I did it and said, I don't know if this did anything. The second time I did it, about six weeks after I did it, I got out of the shower and I saw myself in the mirror and said, I don't really recognize myself because it was a massive noticeable difference in size. And you can go from being a grower to shower sort of thing. Well, I became a shower and more of a grower and it was ridiculous. I don't know how to talk about this without sounding like a douchebag bragging about whatever. I'm just telling you as a guy, this is powerful stuff, very powerful.

But.

So that was that did an episode. I've talked about it on stage at the conference before. This shouldn't be news to you, but Adam reached out a couple years ago and said, hey, I've been working with this type of technology, system wide, not just reproductive, and we should talk. And Adam, we met because you are in the Upgrade Collective and you signed up for the courses and all that. You guys, the Upgrade Collective is our live studio audience. I offer a bunch of courses on my work, so OurUpgradeCollective.com is where you can join that. But we got to know each other that way. And so we've been talking about this and we are at the conference launching the Wasabi method, which is a way of using these devices. And we have a device that is very affordable and to use it throughout the body. So anywhere you have a knot or, or you need something repaired, it causes ridiculous changes. So it's not just to grow and enhance things or if you're at someone licensed to treat it for ed, it works on that. But anywhere that you would have gone to a massage therapist for and had to have 10 sessions, it might just be one. I want to know, Adam, how did you get into shockwave therapy originally? Because this is relatively unknown.

Yes. So maybe about 12 years ago, I was working at a clinic in Sydney and my boss had a device and he basically introduced me to it. And I tried it out on myself and a few patients and started noticing some clinical effects straight away and like.

We said, tried it on some patients. What were you doing?

Well, treated conditions, whether it was tendon problems or muscular problems, like trigger points or.

Yeah, so this was originally used, as far as I understand, for fixing Achilles tendons.

Right.

The first use of shockwave going back in history.

No, the original use was for breaking up kidney stones.

That was focused, though, for the radiation.

Yeah, well, the shock wave in general. So I'll just go back in the history so people can understand a little bit better. So in 1980 in Germany, a doctor in Munich started using shockwave to break up kidney stones.

Right.

And after a while they started noticing some of these patients that had had, say, like, back pain for years and years. They were coming back and going like, oh, my back pain's way better after you got rid of my kidney stones. And so they were like, oh, that's really interesting. Let's see what it can do to soft tissues. It's called lithotripsy when you get it for kidney stones. So that's high energy and that's not.

The stuff that Wasabi method does. No, most devices aren't for that.

Correct. So there's kind of three levels of energy for shockwave. There's low, medium and high. So the wasabi method we use, it starts at low and it goes a little bit into the medium. So the high ones are more for like breaking up kidney stones, deep organs.

That's like surgical hospital stuff. Different thing. That's where that's the evolution came from, the really focused, heavy stuff. And then we realized you can take this and you can use it over any soft tissue in the body, like.

Feet, like calves, neck, shoulder, face, tmj, glutes, and like virtually anything.

Because we talked about this, I got a wasabi method machine at my house and I started using this. And we'll get more into the longevity effects of this. But this is like as potent as things that would cost you thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to do. And this is a clinical grade machine. So this isn't something that most people are going to buy. It runs about like 15 grand with full training. But I want you guys to understand, you can go to a wasabi method provider or you can become a wasabi method provider even if you're not a doctor, which is we're the only company in the world that can do that. We're kind of setting. Setting it free. So the idea here is, like, my assistant, she's had this pain, like, at the very base of her left glute, and it's been there for a year, and it's really bothering her, right? And she exercises all the time and all this. So last time we had a strategic meeting at my place in Austin, she came down and was like, well, let's try out the wasabi method. So, all right, we do. So I'm like, okay, this is like. This is an HR thing. We're dealing with butts. I put on your shorts. You know, like everyone in the room, Right?

We need witnesses.

Yeah, exactly. And she's super cool. So. So anyway, it took about five minutes, and we found the knotted muscle. It was, like, deep up on, like, the outer. But you kind of had to get almost under the edge of the glute, right?

Yeah.

And it looks like a little gun, right? And you put it on, and it makes a tapping sound. And it's called wasabi. That was one of the reasons that we named it Wasabi method, because wasabi is, like, spicy. And then you're like, ah. Like, it feels good. So when you're on this trigger point that might have been there for a year, even for, like 10 years, it's a muscle that nodded and never let go. And so I put it on there, and she's like, oh, that's spicy. And you just lay there. And then she goes, oh, my God, it's gone. And she gets up, and she could do a forward fold she couldn't do before. And this is now, probably six months later, she's saying, it's still fixed. It's completely good. And she'd had massaged on that thing 20, 30 times.

Right.

And you've done work on various things on me where like, well, that muscle's been stuck forever, and it just gets unstuck in one time.

Yes.

What is making it do that?

So the physiology of how it works is basically, we're stimulating the body to come and heal and repair the tissues that we treat. That's the simple version.

So when you come in with your thumbs and you do deep tissue work, why doesn't that do the same thing?

Because that's simply mechanical pressure. And what we're doing is the sound waves themselves cause the tissues. It's working at a molecular, cellular, and tissue level. So it's stimulating those tissues to release certain chemicals and enzymes and different growth factors. And that's what Stimulates the healing.

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20% off your first order. When we talk about those chemicals, a lot of people on the show know some of it. You also may not know about this stuff. One of the things that's really potent is a compound called vegf. And unless you read Superhuman, my longevity book, you probably don't know about this. Or maybe if you're into toxic mold recovery. This is a compound that controls small blood vessels, right?

Yeah.

What happens if you have a knotted muscle and you've had it for months? Months? What happens to blood flow in that blood vessel?

Well, again, you're stimulating it to change the blood flow.

I mean, what happens when it's knotted up? What happens before you treat it like, oh, well, before.

So you essentially have a trigger point. So the trigger point itself will cause the muscle. When you contract the muscle, it can't contract as forcefully. So it decreases force production. But it also, if you want to lengthen that muscle, like stretch it out, it can't lengthen as far either. So it's limited in both capacities. So you can't lengthen and you can't contract as forcefully.

Anyone who's had a muscle injury or just a knotted muscle, it's not even an injury. It's a protective response that doesn't get turned off. So over time and I know this very well because having had fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, you get these really tight trigger points all over your body, and I've had to work through those and all that. But you get something called pseudo hypoxia.

Yes.

Right.

Can you walk through what pseudo hypoxia is?

So basically, hypoxia is you're not getting enough blood flow to the area. I always tell people think of blood flow almost like water to a plant. That plant's not getting enough water. So instead of thriving, it's kind of drying up and shriveling, and essentially our tissues can stay in that state for virtually forever.

Yeah, yeah.

And a lot of people do. Like you said, your assistant had that problem.

I had one, too. This is kind of embarrassing, but I'll tell you how I did it. So, as you know, I built a regenerative farm on Vancouver island, and one of our pigs escaped. Pigs are mean assholes. Just to be really clear. They just do that. I mean, even if they're kind of nice, like they.

They're.

They're animals.

Just levels of assholery.

Exactly. And the very best ones become politicians. But anyway, I'm trying to get the pig back in. Okay. And I'm like pushing on his butt. We got our farm manager, the kids, and we're like, yeah, get it back in, get it back in. And the thing will not move.

Right.

This is a 250 pound pig. And I'm shoving and shoving and then all of a sudden decides to move. And I'm like, I'm going to faceplant in the mud. Straight up faceplant. That's not okay. So I kick one of my legs back to counterbalance me.

Yeah, Right.

And I pulled something in my low back from just kicking that leg back at that angle. Like, it was a very awkward thing. It was like a graceful yoga move with a back injury. And I had a knot there for like two years after that. And physio and massages didn't do anything for it. But then with the wasabi method, it's like you hit that knot, there's a little knot, like this big just one time, right. And you just feel this like, oh, that's intense. And then.

Ah.

And it just melts.

Yeah.

And what had happened there was my body said danger. So you get this danger response and it tightens that muscle to prevent me from being hurt.

Correct.

And it's gonna make sure I never get hurt again, even if I'm disabled from it. Right?

Yes.

So by going in with The Wasabi method and getting those pressure waves into that spot, it causes an increase in vegf. Yes, and VEGF and also nitric oxide, which you guys have heard a lot about. Both of those go up dramatically and that combination restores blood flow and it relaxes the muscle itself. And I'm like, whoa. How is it that a five minute treatment using the Wasabi method was able to do what, hours of massage and other things and even chiropractic adjustment, it couldn't get it right. And I think those were the two biggest things was an increase in nitric oxide and vegf.

Yeah.

But if I do it, say on a bigger muscle or even there, those go into circulation. I've got nitric oxide everywhere. And I've got VEGF everywhere.

Yes.

Why would I want VEGF everywhere?

It's going to help with basically your whole vascular system.

Yeah.

It's going to improve how it dilates, how it constricts, how like the permeability of your. Your, your cardiovascular system, essentially. And when we go back to nitric oxide, it's actually creating enos, which is endothelial nitric oxide synthase. So that's creating more. It's like making a factory in your body that constantly makes nitric oxide.

That's a big deal.

Yeah.

It's not just nitric oxide, it's like the factory.

Ooh, let me do a little mini class of nitric oxide for people. This comes also from Superhuman, my longevity book. But there's three kinds of nitric oxide that your body needs. There's N Nos, which is neural nitric oxide that's in your brain. There's Enos, endothelial, nitric oxide, which is really important for vascular stuff. And listen to the episode I did on N101 to learn about nitric oxide. In fact, they're here at the biohacking conference too. But the toxic nitric oxide is called inos, or inducible nitric oxide. And that's something that causes all sorts of damage throughout your body by making peroxy nitrite in your cells. It can cause migraines and it's. So when people say nitric oxide is good or bad, you don't really know unless you know which of the three it's making. In this case, when you use Wasabi method, you're getting the endothelial that then goes into circulation and circulating Enos is good for all of your vascular linings.

Right.

For me, my vascular system is my biggest risk for longevity. We have these four killers that are from the Superhuman book. And one of the big four is cardiovascular. And I know genetically that that's my biggest risk factor. And so I don't have diabetes now anymore anyway.

Right.

And so it's diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, and heart disease or cardiovascular. So making my own system more complex because I've had exposures to toxic mold. Toxic mold lowers your VEGF levels dramatically, which affects circulation. So for me, wow, I can treat my calf, I can treat any tight muscle, and it makes the tissues younger. And one of the ways is by vegf.

Yeah.

Now, what would happen if I had more. Oh, and by the way, that stands for vascular endothelial growth factor, which makes you grow new blood vessels. What would happen if you grew new blood vessels in your reproductive system? What would happen?

Well, that's kind of what we're focused on here, isn't it? Is one of the main causes of erectile dysfunction is a lack of blood flow to the penis.

Right.

So by treating that, when increasing the vegf, we're causing angiogenesis, which is the new formation of blood vessels. So it's not just because some people think we're just increasing blood flow like you can do when you put some. Some heat on something. It does that because there is mechanical energy temporarily, right?

Yeah.

But the main thing is increasing all these growth factors. So you're signaling your body to increase and lay down new arteries and capillaries in those areas. So if that's the reason why you can't get an erection, it's going to solve it, but in a permanent manner, not like when you take a Viagra. And as soon as the drug's out of your system, you're stuck with the problem again.

So basically, new plumbing or additional plumbing.

Yes.

So it can fix edge if you're using it medically or if you don't have ED and you just wanted girth or length or straightening out curves, it's. I don't know how to put words to it. Like, there were some positions I couldn't do anymore because of changes. These are not small changes. And this is one of those things where some people listening are, like, rolling their eyes right now. Guys, I know how to talk about this stuff without sounding kind of douchey, but the reality is whether you're seeking just, like, firmer erections and things that you probably have an issue with as you age, or sometimes even if you haven't aged, if you just don't know how to eat and you're in your 30s, this is a rampant epidemic. You're not Alone, if you're having problems, but also if you're like, you know, I'd like to take control of my own biology and actually change the size and characteristics. You can dial it up and it takes three to six treatments, right?

Yep.

So now that I have a Wasabi method machine at home, like, every couple weeks, I'll just give it a little.

Tune up, A little tune up.

There you go. And, man, this works. I'm incredibly impressed. And now, throughout history, you had to have a medical license to buy what they would call a shockwave device, Correct? The Wasabi Method device does not require a medical license. It is licensed for use in clinics, and doctors and medical professionals do use it. But this means that we can now have, say, massage therapists. If you're a massage therapist, how long can you use your thumbs before they don't work anymore? Well, with Wasabi method, you get a lot more treatments in, and people are happy to pay more because it's a permanent resolution to a problem. So all of a sudden, you have a business that makes more than just selling hours because you're now selling this thing, and you don't have to be a doctor to do it. And so part of my goal in biohacking is I don't think you should have to have a permission slip to do whatever you want to your own biology. I don't know why in the US you have to go to a doctor and get a prescription for something that you've been on for 20 years, like, say, thyroid. Why do you need to go pay for an appointment? Take all of your time. Take the doctor's time. Who actually has real work to do. It doesn't make sense. And the same thing for things like this. This is something that if you're using on soft tissues, is safe. And if you're using it in places where you shouldn't, like on your brain or your lungs or something, it's not safe. But that's basic precautionary things like don't spill hot water on yourself either. So we've cracked the code on that. So this means that you can now purchase one for use on yourself. Or if you have some kind of a business, you're a biohacking coach, you're physio, you're a sports trainer, you're a yoga teacher, you're a massage therapist. We have full training, the same training that doctors get. That comes as a part of what you can get with the Wasabi Method. And then you become a Wasabi method practitioner. And we can refer people to you. So this is one of those things where let's lower the cost for everyone on earth to do it, and let's empower people to be small business owners who are providing a valuable service. And in my mind, this is a foundational longevity therapy as important as stem cells, because every tissue in your body gets calcified over time, Right?

Correct.

Oxalate, oxalate, oxalate. This is a major cause of that. So if you've, like me, been a vegan or you've eaten stupid amounts of nuts and raspberries and spinach and kale because you didn't know any better, like I did, even almond butter. Well, you get stiff tissues.

We can reverse that.

We reverse that.

Right.

So you'd go in and what I do, I started my toes and I've just, like, worked my way all the way up. And you were working on me last night and just going like. What did you ask?

I asked if you had a massage earlier.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you just happen, like. No, I haven't. I've been flying and driving for three hours to get here to Dallas. And most people who've worked on me, if they're like, your tissues are really young and what, they're supple.

Yeah.

What does young mean? And it's supple. Yeah, supple.

Which is normal.

Well, it's healthy, but it's not normal.

Yeah, you're correct.

Yeah.

So why do our tissues stiffen over time? Do you know the mechanisms for that?

If I was to postulate, I'd think it's due to the blood flow. If you're not getting adequate blood flow to these areas, just like the plant, it's not getting enough water. So it's not going to. It's not going to thrive. It's going to. It's going to wither and not function as well as it should.

That's one of the reasons that movement is good for you, even if it's not exercise and going for a walk. Because it gets more oxygen in.

Yep.

There's also calcification of tissues as we age, and that's influenced by your nutrition heavily and your toxin environment.

Yeah.

And then there's actually extracellular stiffening. It's one of the seven pillars of aging that you work on maintaining. Well, you can break up extracellular stiffening, which is one of the big seven things you've got to maintain if you want to live to at least. And now we've got a device that is low cost compared to anything else on the market. And that is available through care providers who are not doctors. And you can go through your tissues and you can literally work on stiffening cells and extracellular stiffening and you can just reverse it and you get like supple tissues. In addition to reductions in pain, increases in blood flow, increases in nitric oxide, decreases, larger or better functioning reproductive system.

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When it comes to women, I have used the wasabi method on my girlfriend with great results. But for that we did use lidocaine.

Right.

Any thoughts on lidocaine or using this on men or women?

We can. You can. Because it is, it's not pain free to have it done. So if you're going to work on some of these areas, they're relatively sensitive. There's a minimum kind of energy. We want to cause these physiological changes. So if I, I can turn it down, but when I turn it down, the, the effect is, won't be as good.

It, it's, it's spicy for a reason. That's why it's named that way.

Yeah.

When I first did like the old style shockwave six, seven years ago for the show, full lidocaine, BLT cream, you know, I felt like I was completely like there's nothing there.

Right.

Yeah.

I use the wasabi method without any lidocaine. Just take a deep breath, put a towel under it against a hard surface and you just do it. And it's intense but not painful.

And it doesn't take long. It's only a few minutes.

Yeah, right.

And it's 3 out of 10 pain for me and others. Good friends have come to the house and used it as well. And same thing. Don't really need lidocaine for men, for women, because the. Let's hope Instagram or whatever doesn't bleep this part. But the clitoris, you see the little part, but it's actually a very large structure that goes inside. So you do the mound and you do the labia, and you do the whole perineum.

Right.

In men and women, there's all kinds of ligaments and connective tissues, and it's like the seat of power, like the first chakra stuff and more blood flow. And all of that is incredibly restorative. Even around, like, the anal sphincter that tightens up. And if, say, a woman's had kids.

Right.

The problems with sneeze, peeing, and just stretching tissues, pelvic floor. Everything in the pelvic floor tightens up. And it's remarkable.

Right.

So that, though, did require some lidocaine cream.

That's common. So there's techniques out there that use essentially cupping for women. So what they do is they put a cup, they use some suction to engorge the clitoris, and then it's much easier to treat.

Oh, you engorge it first and then treat it?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

That would work.

Yeah.

So it's almost like a kind of like a penis pump. And in women, the clitoris is made of the same tissue as men's penises.

Right.

So they can essentially get an erection with their tissues.

And by the way, guys, speaking of pumping, if you go to more Dave.com that is a Susan Bratton's complete guide to all the pumping stuff for men and women, where you can put essentially a pump on either. Either one. And over time, that can also cause changes in size. I have found that if I just use Wasabi method without pumping, I'm getting just ridiculous results. But if you needed to get things engorged first, you could do that. But I don't know that's necessary.

They work well together. They're synergistic, and a lot of practitioners will use both. Also, when they send the clients home, they recommend it to keep it working well.

Got it.

So we'll probably end up hooking up people who become Wasabi method practitioners. We'll probably hook them up with a recommended pump and all that.

Yeah, because you don't want to get just something cheap that doesn't get the job done.

I've tried probably 10 different penis bumps, including water Ones. And everyone claims theirs is the best.

Yeah.

They can't all be the best.

No. And a lot of them don't really work and some of them can cause harm. So there's an art to that. There's some other things that happens with the wasabi method with this type of pressure wave when it goes into your tissues. We talked about VEGF and nitric oxide, but specifically regenerating bones, tendons and soft tissues. With Wasabi method, you don't use it directly over a bone. You just use it in the soft tissues near the bone and then the healing factors get into the bones. How does that work?

No, you do, you can use it right over the bone.

Right over the bone, yeah. So I guess you have to turn it down. I tried it on my shin.

It's not, it's not pleasant. Okay, it's not pleasant, but it's one of those things, the physiology there is, we're causing proliferation of osteoblasts. So osteoblasts are just bone cells. So there's two essential types of bone cells. You have osteoblasts which make new bone, and you have osteoclasts which break down bone.

Okay.

So what we want ideally in the human body is they work at the same level. So you don't get increased bone, but you don't get, you don't get a bone loss with like osteopenia or osteoporosis.

Okay.

When someone has a fracture, we want the body to increase the osteoblast because it's got to fix the, the bone. Right. So if we treat it with shockwave, we're telling the body make more of these repairmen that will help that, that bone knit together. And it works very well. There's many peer reviewed journals that demonstrate that that's very, very effective. And they use it for non, what they call non union fractures. So like hip fractures that won't knit together after months and months. Usually they have to do surgery, but with shockwave you can treat it because you're causing all these physiological changes and it knits together and you can avoid surgery, which is huge.

So non union fractures used to be amputation time.

Right.

And then there's a Nobel Prize, if memory serves, many, many years ago, for the guy who figured out you could run a small electrical current over two bones to cause them to knit over a non union fracture.

Yeah.

And the reason, that's Wolf's law, isn't it?

I believe so, yeah. The reason though, that the wasabi method like this Type of pressure wave works is that bones and bone cells are piezoelectric.

Correct.

And this is a neat thing that we know about from electronics, but piezoelectric just means that you apply pressure or vibration and it makes a small current. So what do you know? With the Wasabi method, how many times a second are we pulsing this?

Well, you can set the frequency, but it can go from 1 hertz to about 25 hertz.

25 times a second, right?

Yeah.

So 25 times a second, your bone cells are getting a little electrical spurt. Yeah, they're getting an electrical pulse. Not because we gave them electricity, because we gave them physical vibration that then created electricity in the cells, which then would cause bones to knit. So would you use this over, like a cracked. Like a cracked bone?

Yeah.

Wouldn't that just hurt like hell?

It would.

Okay.

But what we can do instead, I have in my clinic, I use other tools. So I have a high powered laser. So what I do with that is I'll treat the area first to create some local analgesia.

Sweet.

And then I can hit it with the shock wave, and then I can turn it up because I can tolerate a higher they. I've increased their threshold for pain.

Right.

And so I can turn up the energy. And when I have the energy turned up, they get a greater physiological effect.

Okay. So when. When you go to a medical clinic or a chiropractic clinic, they're likely to do medical treatments. Like, I wouldn't want to see someone who's a massage therapist say, oh, you have a cracked bone. Let me just treat like, that's not how this works. We are, we're doing the full video training protocols with everything. The way we've broken it down with the Wasabi method training is that you can train basically legs, lower limbs, upper limbs, torso, and reproductive. Am I missing one back?

Yeah.

And extra ones say like scar tissue, burns, wound healing, things like that.

Like the longevity protocols is a part of that. And so you can just get one trainer, get all the trainings. But the idea here is, is that I want everyone who has one of these devices to actually know how to use it.

Right.

And to know, okay, this stuff, I'm licensed and wherever I am to do it, or if you do it on yourself, you don't need a license. If you have a cracked bone and you have a Wasabi method machine or you have access to one, you can do what's in the training. But something we haven't talked about yet that comes from the pressure waves in wasabi is increased collagen production. Now collagen's in your bone matrix, collagen's in your skin. So you can use wasabi method on skin to make more collagen or is that just fascia?

It does both. So again, you're stimulating the body. It's like saying, hey, I want you to produce more collagen here. And then your brain goes, oh, okay, I got the signal. So again, a lot of these things are just putting signals into your body. And then your brain goes, okay, I'll deliver that. So when we get increase collagen, obviously that's going to help with the suppleness of the skin. It's going to remove some of the wrinkles. It's just going to make it more elastic.

I mean, people listen to the show. I made collagen a billion dollar industry. And guys, 20 grams a day of collagen is a good dose. I don't know that you need more than that. And there's probably a downside to too much collagen without other types of protein. But taking small amounts of collagen can stimulate your body to make more of its own. But you can also stimulate it via a variety of methods. And it turns out wasabi method is really good for internal and external collagen.

Yeah.

So this is something I've been thinking about. I've used my wasabi method machine on, on my lips a few times. Probably not enough to see an effect, but I'm maybe not using the right hand. So once we get into our full training on that, I'll figure it out. But I did find I needed to like put my tongue over my teeth so they didn't vibrate because that doesn't feel good. But definitely the next couple days they felt like they had more volume. But I'm not looking for duck lips, I'm looking for just normal guy lips, but I suspect there's something to be done there. I've also seen people using pressure waves for collagen just around the face or anywhere there's cellulite. Talk to me about that.

With the shockwaves, we can stimulate these again. We're, we're stimulating collagen in these, in these areas. But all, all these physiological effects with the vegf, with nitric oxide, all, all these things we've already mentioned. So when we look at how the physiology works, if we're increasing the way the, those areas function, the blood flow, the, the healing responses, the collagen, it's going to help these areas regenerate. Wherever it is. So if you have an area, say you have an area of really dry skin working that area, if you're increasing the blood flow to that area, laying down new plumbing, that will help with the dry skin.

Well, dry skin versus cellulite, like cellulite specifically, because then we've got little connections from the skin basically going down in fat underneath them. Cellulite and wasabi method. What are the mechanisms with cellulite?

Obviously, it's a lot more common in women because their fat under their skin is actually different. They get like this dimpling effect like, like an orange peel with it. Now that's pretty much across the board. It doesn't matter how much fat you have per se, you can still have cellulite and be skinny. What we want to do is change the physiology to the area so that we're kind of filling in those spots and smoothing it out a little bit.

Okay. By adding collagen. And also there's something we haven't mentioned that's an effect of pressure waves. It's stimulating fibroblast activity.

Yeah.

Can you talk to me about fibroblasts?

With fibroblasts, they're essentially cells in the body that again, they're like repairmen. So whatever. The cool thing with fibroblasts is they can work on multiple tissues. Whereas before we mentioned, like osteoblasts are just in bone or for tendons, you have what are called tenocytes, which are just in tendons. Fibroblasts can kind of go anywhere. They can go in tendons, they can go in ligaments, they can go in fat, they can go in muscle. So they're like the all rounder where it can go anywhere.

So you'd be stimulating collagen growth, new blood vessels, which is healthy for skin, and you'd be stimulating fibroblasts in an area where there's cellulite. So you get a tightening effect.

Right.

Which would make a lot of sense. Do you know, do those fibroblasts make it into the bloodstream? Do they cruise around and heal systemically?

Yeah.

Well, that's cool. Thing with, with the technology is it doesn't matter so much where you treat, it's still going to cause a systemic effect.

Yeah.

Like when you exercise, say I just exercise my arms. I don't just get testosterone and growth hormone in my arms.

Right.

It's the whole body.

Yeah.

So it's a similar thing. So if I treat your leg and I'm causing the proliferation of all these tissues, like the fibroblast the tenocytes, the collagen, all those things that's going to go throughout my body. It's more predominant on that localized area, but it's still going to have somewhat of a systemic effect because it's getting into my bloodstream and then that's going throughout my body.

I kind of look at it like you throw a rock in a lake. You get more ripples where you created the disturbance, but then they continue throughout the entire lake.

Right.

And if you do enough spots in the body, you get a very nice effect everywhere.

Yeah.

One thing that studies show with these pressure waves is that you see a system wide decrease in inflammatory markers.

Correct.

And inflammatory markers, if you read some of the books or just listen to the show a lot, there's something called cytokines. And these are markers of inflammation that you would see in a blood test. And if you have chronic inflammation, the way I did when I weighed 300 pounds, is these are elevated. Or if you've been exposed to toxic mold or Lyme disease or you have long Covid or any of those things, your inflammatory cytokines will be up. If you just lifted heavy, you'll have inflammatory cytokines. But when you do this type of pressure wave therapy, then your blood tests of inflammatory markers can go down afterwards. So this is pretty potent, like hold on new blood vessels where I need them, new nerves where I need them via nerve growth factor, more collagen, stimulation of fibroblasts and reduction of inflammatory markers. This kind of sounds and looks like a foundational longevity therapy that every longevity doctor should either have in their clinic or in the world that we're envisioning with Wasabi method. Maybe you have it in your clinic and you hire someone who's your specialist in doing that and you can add on things for reproductive, or you just refer out to a local person who's maybe not even a medical provider, but can do low cost, even home visits.

Right.

Because we're going to be enabling massage therapists, trainers and people with a license to touch. In some states you actually need a license to touch another person for any kind of thing like that. Like Texas is one of those. But as long as they have the appropriate credentials, they have a Wasabi method device and the training, then they can go and they can do the systemic stuff that supports advanced longevity therapies. So if you're going to go get stem cells and spend thousands of dollars doing that, or maybe you're just taking stem regen, which is a stem cell releasing compound that I'm using every day because it releases 10 million stem cells every day. And it's kind of expensive to get 100 million stem cells injected and taken out. So maybe you're going to go somewhere and do advanced cell therapies where they pull your cells out and they work on them or some engineered stem cells. I'm all about that. I've done all those things. Maybe do those. And you do a stem cell releaser, but then you hit it with Wasabi method and now the stem cells are in circulation. In fact, one of the things that happens when you do Wasabi method directly is it helps to release stem cells.

Right?

Yeah.

So now you've got, you're getting exogenous.

Stem cells plus endogenous stem cells. So it's kind of like the best of both worlds.

It is. So if I was to say, look, I can't quite afford a full stem cell treatment, but can I take stem regen and do Wasabi method? You can. Of course you can.

Right.

And the Wasabi method, you would actually go to some local person who has a Wasabi method device and then say, I want to buy a package of 10. And now you spent less than stem cells. But you got a pretty dramatic effect. And I've noticed really positive changes from this, especially when I'm using it multiple times. So I'm like, I would pay for a massage, Would I pay for a Wasabi method and a massage, Would I pay more? Yeah, because you get the relaxing effects of human touch and then you get this huge wave of anti inflammatory markers and collagen and all the good stuff.

Plus they're synergistic. They are, they work together. So one, I always tell people, you know, when I do three treatments, I go one plus one plus one is 12. Because they're amplifying the effects of each. Each thing. So when we use in what we talk about as well with wasabi, we're not teaching people this is the only thing you should or could use. It's a tool in your toolbox. Yes, it's a very effective tool. But that doesn't mean all of a sudden you're going to throw your laser, you're going to throw out your scanner or whatever else you have. I tell people use it with it. Rarely do we have studies that show the effects of when people use multiple modalities together. But the few studies that we do have. Are we going on too much?

No, no. I'm laughing because what you're saying makes so much sense. We rarely have studies, multiple things. If you were trying to invent bread in a modern big pharma company. I tested yeast, I tested flour, I tested water, I tested salt. There is no bread.

Try mixing them together.

Yeah, it turns out there's a recipe and you've got to have the right things in the right ratios. Yeah, you can enhance recipes. And I think a recipe for longevity includes wasabi method because of these systemic effects, and we haven't even talked about all of them. One of the challenges for longevity is cell permeability. So you have these compounds, you need to get them into your cells. If you look at something like danger coffee, the reason that I use the specific types of minerals that are in danger coffee is that those minerals are shown to be able to open up cells so that they can come into the cell and they can allow the cell to reduce toxins. Guess what else enhances cell membrane permeability?

I don't know.

Sabi method does.

Right.

So these, these sound waves make it easier to get calcium in and out of cells, which is really important, not for calcification, but because you have too much calcium in the cell, your mitochondria become bloated and then they can't make energy.

Oh.

Do EMFs cause voltage gated calcium channels to open? They do. So you get too much calcium running into cells, which is one reason you feel bad if you're exposed to too much emf. Has nothing to do with the power of the emf. It has to do with the cell effects. So now we can affect cell permeability with essential longevity therapy like the wasabi method.

Can I extrapolate on that a little bit?

Please do.

Talking about those ion channels as well, if we go back to the muscles. So essentially, muscles, when they contract, they allow calcium in, and then when they relax, calcium goes out and magnesium comes in. So if we're facilitating that permeability, those doors are going to swing open and closed much better and allow the transference of those, those molecules.

Imagine if you were taking enough magnesium and you had enough electrolytes, maybe from your coffee present in your body, and you did. Wasabi method. Now the nutrients are present and they can get into cells. In fact, what was that last book? Smarter, not harder. I wrote all about how minerals, trace minerals and macro minerals are critically important for longevity. If they can't get into your cells, you got a problem. So.

Well, then I'm going to do anything.

Yeah, yeah, you can just. You can have the world's most expensive pee.

Yeah, it goes in, goes out.

Yeah, I don't mind having expensive pee. Do you have expensive pee?

I probably do, yeah.

Guys, that's a joke. Because a few people, the people who usually, I think, funded by big pharma, they'll say, well, you might pee out all the supplements. I mean, guys, your bladder and kidneys need protection too. There's nothing wrong with peeing out supplements that you don't need. It means you had sufficient amounts that you could get rid of them. And no, they don't create a load on your liver and kidneys. For 99.99% of them, the herbals could do that. The other ones generally don't. So what you're talking about here is, do I have enough in the body and can it enter the cells? And you can use pressure waves in order to help them do that. And there's other ways as well. But this is the thing. And then there's lymphatic drainage. And you come into an upgrade labs and we have the big squeeze. These are clinically proven whole body lymphatic drainage. Things that are different than you'll see in a lot of places that put like a $2,000 device that doesn't have any studies and doesn't actually do lymphatic drainage. So this is a way to do lymphatic drainage. You can also do lymphatic massage. You have someone come and lymphatic massage actually makes me mad. I go into a massage therapist, like, go over my muscles, like, no, we're going to do lymphatic. And it's like they're just petting you. But it turns out if you push hard, you shut down lymphatic channels. So you have to do really light things. Yeah. If you had someone like teach you how to do lymphatic drainage on the face, it totally works, but it's like, it's very soft. Turns out there's great studies on pressure waves and lymphatic drainage. I spent 10 minutes doing spicy. Oh, okay. It feels better. Spicy feels better. Then all these things. Collagen, blood vessels, nerves, fibroblasts, and lymphatic drainage. And cells can get nutrients. This is why I think this is a nitric oxide and stem cell release.

You didn't even mention the decrease in pain.

Oh, geez. Decrease in pain, decrease in inflammation markers.

Inflammation, neurogenic inflammation.

It's kind of a big deal. And if you guys haven't noticed, we did start a company called Wasabi method. Go to wasabimethod.com just to learn about this and find a practitioner near you or Sign out to be one of the first because this is something that's going to make a big difference for you. And it works whether you're medical care provider with any of the different licenses or whether you're in a related field like massage or, or a health coach or something like that. Let's talk about scars.

Yep.

So fibrosis is what causes scar tissue.

Right.

How soon after an injury would you use something like Wasabi method?

There's people who virtually use it straight away.

Like even after, like a surgery or something.

Yeah, you can.

I'd be a little cautious of that.

Yeah, some people do. It's usually if you have the surface wound, you do like the wound healing protocol. So.

Which is in the training.

Yeah.

So you use the iodine covers and you're not going directly on the skin and stuff like that.

You kind of go around it.

Yeah.

So you're going around it again, if you're going to decrease the inflammation in the area, you're going to cause a decrease in pain, you're going to cause an increase in blood flow through angiogenesis and all these other pathways we talked about. But again, I would always consult with your doctor before trying it and make sure that he's okay with it or she is okay with it.

Especially if it's like a surgical thing.

Yeah.

If it's, you know, you scraped yourself or something, you go around the injury and just all the stuff we just talked about, of course you're going to heal faster than you would have. It makes a lot of sense. And it's unlikely to cause harm given all the research that's been going back since the 80s on this kind of thing. Just in the US nobody knows about things like Wasabi method. It's only been used for ED and in a few clinics for fixing your Achilles tendon or for kidney stones, plantar fasciitis. So I imagine literally tens of thousands of Wasabi method practitioners, both in medical clinics and mobile, just, you know, at home operators, just saying, you know what, this works better or better on top of massage or on top of the sports training stuff than either one by itself. So it's a way of extending.

It's an add on.

Yeah, it's extending the health support practices we have versus treating medical stuff. You can use it for both. But I'm just saying, well, why would you use it for both when you don't have to? You can use it for one or the other depending on your goals. So you'll see this in high end longevity clinics and you'll see this in people saying, hey, why don't you have a wasabi method? I'm coming to your house. I'm a mobile care provider. I'm going to give you the full lymphatic drainage massage and why don't we hit all your sore spots with wasabi method and you'll sit there and go, that was the most powerful 90 minutes of my life. It's just so much better that way. So I want.

And it's not going to cost you a fortune either. Like going to see someone in a big fancy clinic and they, you know, they go, I'm gonna charge you thousands of dollars for this. When our goal essentially is to get it in the hands of almost anyone as long as you have the proper training and knowledge so they can help themselves. It's like Prometheus getting the fire. It's like giving it to the people so that, you know, they can do the things that we're all entitled to do to help ourselves.

That's the biggest thing. This is not a device that most people are going to buy for their home. It runs about 15,000 with full training. But there are a variety of people who have basically home biohacking setups now that cost. Basically what I did on Vancouver island originally was a million dollar biohacking lab. There's an article in the New York Times I was in. There was one in the Austin local magazine. I was just in it, where they're going through and they're talking with people who've built full biohacking things. So there will be. People say, I want to have this there because I can do any. Anytime I have a store, anything, I just deal with it. And if you're one of those, we'd love to help you. But mostly this is about not having to get an insurance thing and dealing with everything going in to go to a doctor's appointment when you really just saved you time. Yeah, just needed to call someone who can do something like a massage. So if it doesn't have to have a prescription, it shouldn't is the way I'm running all of my businesses right now. I only want you to go to the doctor when you're sick and you need a doctor. But going to the doctor for something that doesn't need the doctor's advanced skills, it pisses off the doctors because they don't like spending three minutes with you to basically do nothing.

Right.

They'd rather you do the simple stuff so that they can actually spend 10 minutes with you or an hour with you and go deep and help you solve and diagnose a real problem. And so this is why, like, removing the burden from the healthcare system for things that aren't really medical and allowing us to focus on things like I wouldn't want people doing chiropractic adjustments who aren't trained.

Right.

You're trained in that and you know how much harm you could do if you're not trained. But things like wasabi, very minimal training required. Just don't do it over the head and don't do it over the lungs and you're kind of okay.

And it's super safe. There's over 30 years of studies proving its safety profile. So it's not new. A lot of people go, oh, it's new technology. No, it's not. We've been using this technology for over 30 years. There's thousands and thousands of peer reviewed.

Journals that demonstrate its effectiveness.

At one of my training seminars, I put up this meta analysis that had included 19 randomized control trials. There was almost 2,000 people. It was on the knee. They were treating knee osteoarthritis, which we didn't really focus on yet. There was zero side effects out of 1900 total subjects out of 19 RCTs.

0.

And like, when I tell people this at the seminar, I'm almost waiting for people to be like, clapping because how many other treatments have you heard of where they treated almost 2,000 people and had zero adverse effects? Have you heard of any? I haven't.

Sounds amazing.

That just demonstrates the safety profile of this technology. It's effective and super safe.

So could you imagine, say, you ran a care home where almost everyone has knee osteoarthritis and you had a $15,000 device there and you trained a couple staff on it. Anytime anyone had sore knees, they just come in and use it. Use on themselves. Yep. That'd be pretty darn incredible.

It would save a lot of money on pain meds. It would increase these people's functional capabilities. Yeah.

Quality of life.

Quality of life. They'd be happier people because they're more functional.

Yeah.

And this is the thing that they don't really tell you. You have a right to do anything to your body that you want to do. You don't have to have permission. And one of the things that's happening in the world of longevity right now is there are some people, usually medical professionals, who will say, well, you know, you shouldn't be allowed to do that.

They want to be the gatekeeper.

Well, I'm like, I Didn't ask you to be my allower because if we're going to play that game, I didn't allow you to breathe. Why are you doing it? Because it's what you do as a human being. And also healing yourself and being intentional charge of your own health is also what you do as a human being. So I don't believe in gates. In fact, I believe in blowing up gates. I also believe in education and in safety, which is why we have full medical training. Anyone can get it. So you know what not to do, right? And also you're allowed to do whatever you want. People wouldn't really think about this, but there's no law against doing brain surgery on yourself. It's totally legal. It's also stupid and you shouldn't do it. Right, but there's a lot of things you can do on yourself. Like you can decide to exercise without a permission slip or a trainer. Or you could hire a trainer. You might get better results, right? You can consult a licensed dietitian. Sorry, licensed dietitians make hospital meals and school lunches. Maybe you shouldn't consult one, but you certainly could consult a nutritionist or a functional dietitian. There are some of those out there now, thankfully. You could do that and you might get better results than if you just did it yourself. Or you could use an AI tool. In fact, I'm going to offer you guys one of those later at the biohacking conference, some new ideas on how to be in charge of yourself. I just want you to be in charge. I want you to know everything that works and to be able to use someone else's device for a cost effective way to do it without having to talk to an insurance company or any of that kind of garbage. And that's the vision for the future. Remove. Insurance companies only go to the doctor when you can take full advantage of the doctor's advanced skills. But you don't need to do the simple stuff there. You do it yourself. Same thing at your house. Look, if your sink is leaking, you go, oh no, it's the end of the world. I'm going to go to the, whatever, the local inspector, I'm going to get a permission slip to hire a plumber who's going to come and fix my leaky sink. That's our medical system today. Or you could just go online, look at a YouTube video about how to fix a leaky sink, go to the local Home Depot or whatever you have there, Lowe's, pick up a gasket and go fix it.

Right?

That's what you're supposed to do for your biology. And if it still is leaking and the house is filling with water, call a professional. That's what they're for. But what we have today around our health is we only call professionals and we just sit there with a leaky sink for years until it becomes a problem. So Wasabi method, what we're doing here, it's about just look, let's put the tools in the hands of people so that they can. They can work that directly in a way that's safe and effective. Yeah, that's the idea.

That's the goal.

There's two more things that these pressure waves can do that we haven't talked about yet. One of them is really personal for me. I've had low white blood cell count for actually for most of my life. As far as I can tell, this comes from chronic exposure to toxic mold. It's fine now, but it's been low. It's called low leukocyte count. There are studies of pressure waves that they increase count of white blood cells.

Right.

They cause a healing response. So now your immune system can be at full strength. And if you've had a chronic illness, even like a chronic viral thing or a chronic mold or chronic whatever, getting your white blood cells back up is a good idea. And it looks like just does that. Any comments on that?

Yeah, so I was reading a study, they were talking about it. It has an immune modulatory effect. So it depol. Depolarizes the. What they call M1, which is like pro inflammatory, and converts it to M2, which is anti inflammatory. So we can do that by using Shockwave. And it also affects what you're talking about leukocytes. It increases infiltration so they can. They can get in to areas better. And we can affect that through Shockwave. That's been clinically proven.

There we go. And if you guys are saying, Dave, this thing sounds like it does everything. No, Wasabi method doesn't do everything. I would say though that other than something like intermittent fasting or longer fasting, which has this broad spectrum effects throughout your body, I don't know of any other longevity device that has this broad applicability. The broader the applicability, the lower level in your tissues, lower level in your system, you're going. My whole view on longevity is let's fix mitochondria, let's fix cell membranes, let's fix lysosomes and other subcellular components. Because if they work, their job is to make everything else work. A Lot of medicine is, well, let's fix this high level system here. I'm like, why are you going to fix your eye if you haven't fixed the mitochondria that power the eye? And after you fix those, if the eye doesn't self repair, then let's go in and let's do the work or let's stimulate healing via another way. By the way, we don't use wasabi method on your eye.

Correct.

That would be stupid.

It is contraindicated.

So just in case anyone was confused there, the final thing before we wrap it up about this kind of longevity technology is nerve fiber regeneration. So we talked about growing new nerves in especially the reproductive system and you will notice toe curling effects from that. But when people have peripheral neuropathy, which is something vitamin B6 toxicity causes in a lot of people and also diabetes. What do we know about using wasabi method or just using pressure waves in general and growing nerves at the periphery or elsewhere in the body?

We have growth factors that we're stimulating again that show changes in these nerves, the re innervation of these nerves. But the other cool thing is a lot of people don't know nerves actually have like a small capillary inside them. So if we can treat that and increase the blood flow inside the nerve.

Inside the nerve?

Yeah.

Hold on a second. I thought a nerve was a single cell. It has a capillary inside a single cell.

Yeah.

How do I not know this? I've written books on this stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

So I don't know at what level, but we talk about that. If someone. So if you have like nerve compression. That's why we worry about it as chiropractors. If someone's got a bulging disc and it's compressing their spinal nerve root, it can affect the blood flow. It can pinch off the blood flow inside the nerve.

Okay.

And then that nerve dies.

And then they thought it was outside the nerve feeding, but it's inside the nerve.

Yeah.

That's amazing. I'm going to fact check you right here. ChatGPT, you ready?

Am I right?

Real.

Were you taught that at uni?

Is there a capillary inside of any nerve inside the human body? Question mark. It says. I'm sorry, you are not a licensed medical professional. We have limited this information. Please spend $250 at a doctor to ask them even though they don't know. Is that what it's supposed to say? Because hold on, am I working with Google here? No, this isn't Google's.

All right, we might Want to fact check?

Here's what it says. It says there are not actually capillaries in the nerve fibers themselves, but nerve fibers and their supporting structures in the human body are supplied by a network of vasa nervorum, which are small blood vessels that run along the outside of nerve fiber bundles, providing neutral nutrients and oxygen indirectly instead of inside. Okay, so in your mental picture, I totally get why you do that.

Yeah.

Because they're stuck together.

Yeah.

It goes around. So it's not inside. It's around.

Yeah.

But essentially the nerves inside some blood vessels, but not completely inside. I didn't know that nerve or whatever they're called mesa.

It's called mesa.

The picture in my head, though, was like, wait, I don't. Because it's a single cell, I don't think. Anyway, not trying to correct you on that.

No. But I don't want to be saying stuff that's not factual.

It has the same outcome. And there's nothing wrong with questioning anything I do. And I'll question stuff that you do because let's just work together on Wasabi method. And so, guys, I don't want to take up more of your time on this episode, but I want you to understand there's a new. Well, it's actually not new. There's an unknown technology that has broad, reaching, longevity effects. And for the first time in the United States, with the Wasabi method, you can now get it without having to go to a medical provider, but you can also get it at a medical provider. So go to wasabimethod.com check it out. There's a full library of medical grade training taught by someone with 17 years of experience. So, Adam, thank you for doing that.

I'm not the only one who does it. I have a team helping me.

You have a team helping you. Fair point. You're not the only teacher. And we have specialists, actually, in the different areas, especially for reproductive.

Yes.

And I think this is something that is going to enable a lot of listeners to actually start their own extensions of their businesses. So if you're a coach or you're a trainer or a yoga teacher or you provide massages or other types of care, this is supportive, and it extends what you can do. It also extends how long you can do your profession, because I know a lot of people, they turn 40 or 50 and, like, my thumbs are shot.

Right.

This is going to take the load off your body as a care provider and allow you to provide better outcomes for the people who come to you.

And you can treat Yourself. So I treat myself regularly.

Me too.

So when my thumbs are sore from working all day, I'll treat myself. So instead of having to go see a Cairo down the road, I just take an extra five minutes at the end of my day. Boom, boom, boom.

Yep.

And my hands good to go for tomorrow.

Exactly. And this is a one on one kind of environment. In other words, you know, you're, you're going to probably even in a chiropractic office for the most part they're going to be in a private treatment room.

Right.

Because they're going to have to expose whatever the skin is and especially if you're doing reproductive. That's a whole different. Whole different.

Yes.

So it's not like a club workout experience. It's not that kind of device.

Like an open clinic where there's someone in a bed right next to you looking at what's going on.

Exactly, exactly. But it's a very powerful thing. So if you get a chance to try this, it'd be great. Go to wasabimethod.com and you can sign up. We'll actually send you an email or an SMS when a provider near you opens up. And if you're interested in being a provider, just sign up right there and we'll give you a call and we'll talk about whether it's a good fit for what you want to do with it. This is a new device, it's not one you can get anywhere else. And it's loaded with our own custom software. This is a real innovation in the space. It's also about half to a third the cost of some competing devices. And if you're in this space, there's maintenance and repair. That's a huge profit center for the couple companies that have made these for a long time coming out of Europe. So they look like they're expensive to start, but the operating costs are very high. We don't do that. We just send you the thing you need to take out the other guys, actually lock theirs up. So I just want you guys to be free to be able to help a lot of people at the lowest possible cost so that you can make a living doing it and so that people can actually afford care that has broad spectrum longevity effects. And if as a side effect, you didn't have to go to the doctor because stuff stopped hurting and you didn't have to pay for some pain meds because stuff stopped hurting and because you could move better, it seems like that would make a better world. And that's what we're all about. Thanks for starting Wasabi Method with me, Adam. I'm looking forward to helping a lot of people.

It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show.

Jordan Was nice listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey.