Secrets to Supercharging Your Health: The Gut Revolution with Hannah Kleinfeld | 1088 | Dave Asprey

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today we're going to talk about. Well, more about your gut. And our guest is Hannah Kleinfield, who is the chief operating officer from Alergasan usa, which is a company doing really deep research on what's going on inside your gut. Why do I care so much about guts? Because it turns out this is one of the primary interfaces of your body with the world around you. You wouldn't really probably think about it, but you're actually a hollow tube. So you're a donut. It's just the inside of your donut hole is all twisty and curvy, and that's your gut. And there's a lot of stuff that goes on in there that works in ways that sometimes we understand and sometimes we're just getting to understand. And the reason that I wanted to talk with Hannah today is that in 2019, she helped to get omnibiotics started in the U.S. i use omnibiotic probiotics just about every morning because there's so much clinical data on this. And I want to be really clear. I don't use just one probiotic. And people are always asking me that, saying, well, which one do you use? I actually use a variety of them because different probiotics do different things. And I work on customizing a stack for my gut so that I get all the things I want. But this is a major part of my stack, and it's one that I really appreciate. I share the things I use with you because I think it's worth your time to learn why and how. Omnibiotic is the number one probiotic brand from Germany, Switzerland, and Austria, and it's probably the third most common worldwide. A lot of research on it, and frankly, I trust a lot of stuff that comes out of Germany when it comes to the world of biohacking, because, well, I don't know, there's something about German culture. There's something about the way the German government funds small biohacking companies early on, and it means a lot of innovation comes out of there. So, Hannah, welcome to the Human Upgrade.

Thank you for having me, Dave.

One of the things I really enjoy when I'm talking with researchers and scientists and entrepreneurs is understanding why this. I mean, you could have gone into the tire industry. Why did you go into gut bacteria?

Yeah. It's actually funny you say that because, you know, out of context. College, after my undergrad, I was in business consulting for a few years. And at that point, if you had asked me, I would have thought I was just going to go into a big company in some probably industrials and work there. But then life threw me a curveball and I got Lyme disease and a pretty bad case of Lyme disease. And, you know, when in your early 20s, you go from being a very high performer to suddenly not being able to get out of bed, having all these food, food allergies come up, muscle aches, brain fog, I really was just a vegetable at that point. You really start becoming your own health detective. And I went on my own health journey. And a huge part of that was repairing my gut, both from the Lyme itself and then from the treatments of months and months of antibiotics. And that's how I got to know omnibiotic from a doctor of mine in Germany, actually, who. This was over 10 years ago. She was just talking about how omnibiotic is taking the German market by storm. I started running my own experiment. I said, how do I feel on omnibiotic? You know, every time I was taking omnibiotic, my symptoms improved. Not just my GI symptoms, but my mental clarity, my sleep, my mood. When I ran out of omnibiotic, I switched back to a US brand. And this. The progress just stalled. And so I kept, you know, asking friends and family to send me the products from Germany or Europe. And eventually that triggered the question, why is omnibiotic not in the US So then when I was at business school getting my MBA a few years later, I used my free time to really try to answer that question. And, you know, eventually that led to the conclusion that the US market needs omnibiotic, and that set me on this journey to eventually bring omnibiotic here.

But it's kind of funny because you went to this. This smaller business school called Harvard. Now I went to Wharton. It's one of the bigger, more important schools also for an mba. By the way, guys, if you're listening, there's an old rivalry between the top three schools. So you really could have done anything. You worked at McKinsey, which is one of the most respected management consulting groups. And like me, your health was taken out. I used to think I had Lyme disease. I actually went through Lyme disease treatments early on. It turns out toxic mold underlies Lyme disease for a lot of people. So for me, that was a major issue. And it gets your attention. And you realize, okay, I can take the skills of business and I can do something that actually matters in the world. Yes, why do you think omnibiotic wasn't in the us? A lot of European brands aren't available in the us what's the cause for that?

Yeah, omnibiotic at that point was doing so well in Europe, they were just focused on growing in Europe. And you know, the European market, even though it's different countries, in many ways it's quite similar, you know, even from a regulatory perspective, whereas here in the US it's just a completely different market. So it was just, you know, a bigger barrier to bring the products here. It was really just more from a logistical perspective, not from a market need perspective.

I find also, and this is going to really piss off all my European friends. On average, European cultures are not good at marketing. Like there, there's a, a politeness that happens where I remember I worked for a company out of the, out of Cambridge, uk. The best marketing campaign of my life I came up with. And the CEO said no, interesting, it's too polite. I'm like, but we're trying to take down a company 10 times our revenues. And we don't need to be rude, but we can be aggressive and truthful. You can be kind and truthful. And so I just found that Americans are seen as crass in the UK or in most of Europe. But sometimes the campaigns, the marketing styles work a little bit better.

Very different. You're right. Even just culturally how people interpret things and react to things, that's for sure.

Well, let's talk about gut bacteria. Do you think gut bacteria are the same in Europe and the U.S. you.

Know, in general, if you look at any person in the world, there's a over a 99.9% overlap in the gut bacteria that we have in a healthy human intestine. There is some cultural variation just based on diet and things like that, but overall, you know, humans have the same strains and we actually also, more importantly, certain strains do different things in the body. So if you don't have those strains, your, say your immune function or your short chain fatty acid production might just be a little bit lower. So in terms of that, we do need the same strains.

We definitely need the same added strains. I've seen lots of research on the fact that you can identify a person's age by looking at the variety of strains in their gut. You can even identify a person if you have enough technology. They can leave a room an hour later. You can measure the cloud of bacteria that's part of your biome, identify who was there. And based on local variations in environment and diet, there has to be variations based on who lives in a mountain or a desert. And I don't think we have that map for the world. But you guys know at omnibiotic that if you have a specific strain, like the he talks strain, which is the one that I take most mornings, this is one that's specific for making sure your liver works better and that you can add that to any, any person anywhere on the planet, and then likely their liver is going to work better. Do you see an end to the, to, like, the number of varieties of, of this that you'll make? Because right now I think there's three or four.

Yeah. So actually in Europe, there is many different formulations for omnibiotic. We only chose for now to launch the top five here in the US Based on what we saw were the biggest sort of population health needs here in the U.S. you know, if you look at the American population, people aspire to this longevity of living healthy and, well, longer. But if you're looking at the facts, what's actually happening is people are sicker, chronic illnesses are on the rise. You know, for 40% of Americans struggle with obesity, over 30% struggle with metabolic syndrome. Those are all indicators that the whole body is out of balance. You know, there's inflammation and dysregulation. And so when we decided which omnibiotic formulations to bring to the U.S. we focused on these big health challenges like stress, like gut liver and detoxification. So, you know, there are, there are these different formulations, and there might be an end to more formulations being generated, but I think there's also a huge opportunity as we're learning more about how the gut really impacts so many different things. There's now the gut lung axis. There's, you know, all these other things that have the potential for more targeted formulations.

Are you planning on bringing, like. The full range of our focus is.

Really on spreading the word with the formulations that we have here. There's still so much, so many people who could benefit from the formulations that are available here in the US and you know what? We see time and time again with omnibiotic? Once people try it and really give it a try for two to four weeks, they feel such a profound difference. And we want more people to feel that difference.

Okay, how do you know which one to take? This is even for me. I can pick whatever I want. You guys send them all to me. I have them on my counter.

Yes.

And when it's time, either in the morning or at night to take one, I'M like, do I just open all of the packets or do I just pick one? And to be honest, I'm maybe not as structured as I could be about it, but I imagine someone is saying, all right, I want to fix my gut. I've been on antibiotics, all that kind of stuff. Which one do you start with? Or how do you know?

Yeah, so I think you touch on a very important point here. I would start with asking, what are you trying to accomplish? Because someone who is trying to support, you know, their stress and maybe support their gut barrier, reduce inflammation in the gut, you know, recover from leaky gut, would want a different formulation than someone who just took many antibiotics and first needs to restore their whole gut flora. So in the case of antibiotics, you would start with 80. That's a really strong product. We have multiple clinical studies showing a reduction in antibiotic associated diarrhea, an improvement in bacterial diversity. It's used in many hospitals, actually in Europe as kind of standard procedure whenever somebody is taking antibiotics. So that's where I would start with.

Something that's called AB. What?

AB10. Omnibiotic. AB10. So AB stands for antibiotic. And then 10 is actually just a reflection of the number of strains in the product.

Okay, so if you've taken antibiotics, you do AB10 to help rebuild your gut bacteria sooner.

Yes. And then, you know, I would say, if you've done that and then you're feeling maybe a month or two of that, your GI system feels pretty stable, then you could ask, what else is going on in my life? Am I really stressed? Then I would say, take stress release. Am I looking to support my detoxification? Maybe my liver? Maybe I'm eating a lot of overly processed food, having a glass of wine or two at night. You know, things like that. Then I would say omnibiotic. He talks because you want to support your metabolism and your liver function.

In that case, you could probably just say, if you live in the United States, you want to do he talks. Because we have such incredible problems with spraying chemicals everywhere and using them in our food.

Exactly. And, you know, the other cool thing is you could even take two different ones. So I take usually one in the morning and one at night. For me, that changes, you know, depending on what I'm working on. Omnibiotic stress release is a pretty big staple for me because I like to support my body in stressful times and in general. But then, you know, the other one, I vary. Sometimes I take amybiotic balance, immune support, probiotic, depending on what I'm looking to Optimize.

That makes sense to me. I look at probiotics as in part little vitamin manufacturing of things. They're new abilities that I'm installing in my body when I take them. So sometimes it's just general anti inflammation, like, like general supportive. But when you get into function specific formulas like this, you can say, all right, what is the function that I want? Just like you might take adaptogenic herbs, these are herbs that help you with stress. Well, you could take the herbs, which funny enough, we think a lot of how they work is by they get metabolized by gut bacteria, they're actually functioning as prebiotics that then shift where your gut bacteria do. Or you could take the bacteria that are specific to getting the results you want. So a more nuanced way of looking at how you supplement is, okay, what herb or mineral or other thing did I take and what bacteria did I take at the same time in order to get the results I wanted? You can hope that you'll get the results you want just by taking the herbs or you can make it more likely, or maybe just the bacteria by itself can do that. And that's my question for you. Do I need to take certain precursors with omnibiotic or am I going to get results even if I eat pop tarts all day?

Yes. This is a really big question. I think the first, first thing to recognize is if our gut is inflamed and our gut barrier is broken and leaky, the nutrients we take in are not properly absorbed and metabolized. So you could be eating the cleanest diet and taking the best supplements in the world. But if your gut is broken, if your gut is inflamed, if you don't have the right bacteria to help with nutrient absorption, a lot of that is quite literally just going down the toilet. So that's kind of point one. Yes. And then on top of that, you're right. You know, our bacteria play an essential role in helping to break down and metabolize many of the nutrients we're getting from food and even from supplements. And so again, if you don't have these good bacteria in the right amounts in your gut, they also your body will struggle to get the proper amount of nutrients from the food you're eating.

Okay, so it matters pretty strongly.

Yes.

Okay. What is the number one thing harming people's guts today, especially in the U.S.

Yes, I, I honestly it's a question we get a lot. I would say it's a bucket of things and I call them the longevity busters. Or the gut health busters. And the way I think about this is anything that's creates stress on your gut, and that is top and foremost an overly processed diet, too much sugar, chemicals, toxins from the environment, overuse of medications that disrupt the gut flora, especially antibiotics, but also, you know, other medications. And then lastly, not to forget stress stress, mental and emotional stress has a negative impact on our gut flora. It increases stress stress overall in the body and also can diminish the bacteria in the gut. And if you think how many people in the US across the world are stressed right now, that's a huge impact on our health, mental and physical.

All right, we know that stress causes leaky gut. Do we know that taking probiotics when you're stressed will stop leaky gut?

Yes, we actually have the studies, we've shown in multiple studies that that taking omnibiotic stress release even for just four weeks has a 48% reduction in Zonulin. Now, zonulin is a marker for leaky gut. So what does that tell us? Taking omnibiotic stress lease actually supports your gut barrier and helps reduce this incidence of leaky gut. In addition, you know, omnibiotic stress release also increases your short chain fatty acid producing bacteria, which is one really important also for just overall colon health and health throughout the body. And it helps reduce inflammation in the colon, which is also a huge contributing factor to leaky gut. We've seen this in clinical studies using omnibiotic stress release, checking on those specific endpoints.

That's a remarkable. How many studies in total do you have like clinical studies on.

Yeah, so at this point it's probably well over a hundred now. You know, many of them are published in very reputable journals. Some of them are published in German publications or in Europe. But yeah, at this point, for every formulation, we have multiple studies. And last time I checked, it was well over a hundred.

You talk about human strain probiotics as opposed to, are there companies out there using, you know, cabbage strain probiotics? What does that mean?

Yeah, that's a great question too. So, you know, with human strain strain, what we mean is strains that naturally occur in a human intestine. There's other types of probiotic, for example, spore based, that come from the soil. Yes, they can do things in our intestines, but they're often transient. So that means they're not colonizing and living in the intestines, they're passing through. So when we say human strains, we really mean strains that can colonize and live in your intestines. So that they can actually basically set up camp there. You know, you're not just taking them and they pass through, they're setting up camp and kind of setting up their own manufacturing plans for what they're supposed to be doing.

In our body, there's a relatively famous bad bacteria called Clostridium difficile. It's, it runs rampant in nursing homes, it causes really bad diarrhea and it actually kills people that have weakened immune systems. But most people don't know this. There are beneficial strains of Clostridium that live in the gut that can actually push out Clostridium difficile. What does your AB10 strain do that's different for Clostridium?

So AB10 contains 10 probiotic bacterial strains. And the strains are combined in a way that they have really strong pathogen inhibiting properties, including for C. Diffs. So what we've seen, both in the lab, in vitro studies as well as in clinical trials, is that the omnibiotic 8010 helps reduce C. Diff in the body as well as degrade and reduce the toxins that C. Diff produces, which can actually be a big contributor to the symptoms you experience with C. Diff. For example, we actually have a study recently that they did in a nursing home where diarrhea from just overall, these multidrug resistant gram negative bacteria was rampant. And we found a significant reduction, actually a 58% reduction in colonization of intestinal colonization of these gram negative bacteria in the nursing home residents after they were taking 8010 for several weeks.

Wow. Could you imagine if they just rolled this out at nursing homes?

That would be huge. And you know what, in Europe, again, that's what what's happening. It is being used in hospitals, it's being used in some nursing homes. And the doctors there realize it's a huge benefit to their patients. It reduces the overall cost of care. In these hospitals, patients are happier, nurses are happier because the patients are feeling better. It's an overall win win. And if you think that that can be done through these good bacteria, it's not a drug rug. It's a dietary supplement that can be taken once a day. Easy. It's a powder. You dissolve it in water, you don't even need to take a pill. You know, it's that easy. And it can have such a huge impact.

Have there been any studies in controlled environments like prisons or schools where they just give it to everyone and then see what happens?

I am not aware. I wish that would be done. And actually it's a Great idea. I'll pass it on to our team. A lot of the studies we've done have focused on, you know, nursing homes, hospitals, and then healthy volunteers for things like stress release.

It's kind of dark that I said prisons or schools, but there's actually surprising commonality between the lunchrooms and the two, at least in the U.S. yeah. What I have seen is older studies. One was actually at a juvenile detention facility in the US where they gave them just multivitamins. And the incidence of violence dropped so much during the study that afterwards the employees, like the guards, they put their own money pooled to buy multivitamins because it made their workplace so much safer. Because the incident of violence went down so much. Just from basics.

Yeah.

And if we were to put that in an environment like that, well, when your gut health goes up, your brain health goes up. Brain health goes up, your ability to self regulate goes up.

Yes, yes.

So there's a lot of room for improvement in the way we treat people. And I think doing it in our young people is even more important than in our nursing homes.

Yeah. I mean, just, you know, think 90% of the body's serotonin is produced with the help of our good gut bacteria. If you don't have those gut bacteria that directly affects neurotransmitter production.

What did you see when you looked at the MRIs of people taking your stress release?

I love that study. It's so cool because you can literally see the changes that a probiotic does in your brain activity. So what we did is we had healthy volunteers in two groups, a control group, actually three groups. Control group, placebo and omnibiotic stress release. They took the substance, in this case stress release for sick for four weeks. And then we looked at various things through an mri and what we found is that there was actually changes in two big networks in the brain. One is the salience network and one is the default mode network. And they're responsible for higher cognitive function and attention and focus. So what we see is these changes show that people have improved cognitive function, improved higher processing abilities, and basically a more targeted attention, which is so cool. Again, just by taking a probiotic once a day for four weeks.

That's crazy. Mri. MRI benefits. I'm getting questions from the Upgrade Collective, our live studio audience, and they're asking, do you have to refrigerate it?

No. Let's talk about the delivery mechanism here, because this is a huge component of why omnibiotic is so effective. Omnibiotic does not need to be refrigerated it comes in these daily little pouches. I actually have a pouch here that I can show you guys. It's this little pouch. It fits perfectly into any handbag backpack on the go. You just mix it in water and you take it. No refrigeration required. The, the reason why it's a powder. It was a very mindful decision. We have tested omnibiotic powder versus 10 leading US capsule brands. And what we found is that 83% of the omnibiotic powder reaches the intestines alive and metabolically active, compared to 7% across these 10 other leading brands, many of which were capsules.

That's about 12 times better ability.

Yes. And you want them to reach not just alive, but you want them metabolically active. It's, you know, you kind of want like a young, supercharged, happy, energized bacteria to get into your intestine versus one that's already walking on crutches because it was exposed to the gastric acids and the very low pH in the upper intestine tract. And then it just kind of is barely holding on or possibly dead by the time it reaches your intestines.

That it makes so much sense. And I think I've spent well over a hundred thousand dollars on probiotics over the last 20 years. My gut was really wrecked from all the antibiotics. For me, I was on antibiotics for 15 years. It was maybe once a month I would go on a course. So my gut was just trashed. And it's much, much better now. So I'm grateful for that. But I have no idea which ones survived and which ones didn't. Can I put it in a smoothie?

Yes, you could. Although, you know, the best option is non acidic liquids. So if ideally it's just water, if you're queasy about just putting it in water because it then turns a little milky, you could do non acidic liquids like a non dairy milk. A dairy milk if you're choosing to drink that. Or even, you know, apple juice smoothie is okay as long as it's not acidic. So if you're putting a ton of acidic fruit in your smoothie, for example, then you would not want to do that. But you know, you could also mix it in yogurt. Some people do that especially for kids. Or applesauce. But again, nothing acidic, nothing too hot.

Got it. So don't add it to your coffee.

Yes, honestly, yes. It's funny. No coffee. And also many people think it's a good idea to put it in your lemon water in the morning. No, no, because that is also acidic. The lemon juice is acidic when. Before it gets into your body. And that would actually kill the bacteria. So then you're just negating the effects.

Okay. When I wake up, I like to do salts or electrolytes in water. Can I do it with salt water or is the salt going to kill it?

Yeah, I would be careful. I am actually not sure. I'm happy to ask our science team, but I would be careful because we also know salt can draw, you know, water out of cells. So I would probably just, you know, it doesn't have to be a lot of water, it can just be a little amount of water. I would just chug it and be done with it.

Then how much longer do I have to wait before I drink my salt water?

So it doesn't really matter because you know, the whole idea is the powder. You rehydrate these freeze dried bacteria before they hit another liquid. So if you rehydrate them in plain water, they wake up, they rehydrate and they actually begin to consume the prebiotic nutrients that are mixed in the powder. So they get really strong. And that's what you want because then any other liquid they hit, like the g, the gastric juices in your stomach, for example, they are not even interested in those. They won't absorb them. And that's what actually is the detriment to many of these freeze dried capsules that then if they open in your stomach, for example, they soak up the acid in your stomach and that's what kills them or weakens them tremendously.

Oh, that's actually the best explanation I've ever heard from Omnibiotic about why this delivery mechanism works. Yes, it's partially because you have a prebiotic, so there's food to feed them. But it's because by fully hydrating them ahead of time then yeah, there's no reason that they would pull liquid in.

Exactly.

So then they can survive. And that's why 83% survive. But if I take a capsule of any kind of probiotic that comes in a capsule, it's going to rehydrate using stomach acid and of course that's going to destroy it.

Yes, exactly.

All right, so let's talk about HE Tox, which is the omnibiotic product that I like the most. I've been concerned for more than 10 years about endotoxins. And if people have read the bulletproof diet, I talk about lipopolysaccharides, these things made in the gut by your so called Bad gut bacteria. And these cause brain fog. I was dealing with such bad brain fog. You were, too. With Lyme disease, you get just this idea that you don't feel. You just don't feel right. Even Wim Hof proved that his therapies worked because he injected endotoxin lipopolysaccharides and showed that he could clear it with his breathing and his cold therapy. So if we can make less endotoxin in our gut or absorb less of it, we get less systemic inflammation, we get better mitochondrial function, we get better cognitive function. What does he talks do for endotoxins?

Yes. So, you know, he talks is one of our main probiotics. It supports the gut liver axis. So what do we mean by that? The gut and the liver are connected through the portal vein. So anything we take in into our gut, including environmental toxins, anything kind of the gut metabolizes some of it and digests it. But anything that passes into the bloodstream then gets delivered to the liver for filtration because the liver is our main detoxification organ. If the gut is in disarray and toxins can leak into the bloodstream, then the liver becomes overburdened. And, you know, the liver will try and try and try to clear as many toxins as possible, but eventually they just get recirculated into the bloodstream. What happens then? As you said, brain fog, neuroinflammation, compromised immune system. The list goes on. So omnibiotic. He talks. Replenishes your gut bacteria so that they're really strong, repairs and maintains a strong gut barrier so that these toxins don't even have to get to the liver. And on top of that, we've seen in clinical studies that it also improves liver function. And the coolest, we actually looked at a study with type 2 diabetic patients and just taking omnibiotic Ketox, no. Additional changes in lifestyle led to a 70% reduction in endotoxins in their blood, a 48% improvements in triglycerides, a 53% reduction in CRP, C reactive protein, and an improvement in insulin sensitivity.

So, you know, these are way in excess of what most drugs do.

Yes, and it's again, you know, it's once a day, a diet like a probiotic. You just mix in a little water and you drink it, and it just improves your cardiometabolic markers, your inflammatory markers, your blood sugar.

When you talk about C reactive protein, this is one of the three lab tests I've been recommending for 10 years. If you're into biohacking, you just wanna see how you're doing, people. Oh, let's do a cholesterol. No, cholesterol isn't a very good indicator of what's going on. What is a good indicator though is these three tests. One is C reactive protein, which is a measure of systemic inflammation. And it usually means that you have an infection going on. It could be a gut infection from gut bacteria, it could be a tooth infection and something. Maybe it's homocysteine, which is a genetic thing. You need the right methyl donors, the right B vitamins, and there's one called Lppla2. And Lppla2 is inflammation from the lining of the arteries, which goes up if your endotoxins go up. So what you're showing though is with a once a day in a little bit of water probiotic that you're reducing endotoxins by 70%, which is kind of amazing, but you're also reducing one of the big three markers of inflammation that I measured to see if your entire system of biohacking is working, which is. It's actually pretty profound. And also in the research that I read to prepare for the interview, what about insulin resistance? What difference did he talks make for that?

Yeah. So, you know, since this was with type 2 diabetic patients, of course we also looked at that and we actually looked at the measure called H O M A I R. So that's one of the measures for insulin sensitivity. And we saw a 64% improvement, which for anyone who is diabetic or pre diabetic or even is just looking to stabilize their insulin sensitivity, that's a really.

Significant improvement that probably outperforms metformin.

I would guess I would have to look at the data for that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either. So the reason I wanted to have you on the show is to talk about this. We're not going to go through all 100 of the studies. Plus, I don't read German for all of them, but for years we've known that you can change your gut bacteria to improve things. And over the past 10 or so years, it's become more and more apparent that we're dialing in on the science. And some really good science is coming out of Europe and specifically out of Germany, which is where you guys have sourced this stuff. So if you're new to biohacking or even if you've been listening to the show for a long time, this is not like what you would do 10 years ago. Oh, I'll take some acidophilus. Right. Especially in the US you just take a pill and hope it worked. Yeah, I have had some results in the very early days of working on getting my gut working with spore based probiotics though, but nothing like the kind of results we're talking about here. Can you talk about spore based versus Omnibiotic, why you don't use spores?

Sure. So, you know, as I briefly mentioned earlier, the idea with omnibiotic is you want to take probiotics that can colonize in your intestines. So you want these, these strains that are natural to the human body. When they reach the intestine, they feel at home. So they start living there, setting up camp and they start reproductive producing. And you're now not just relying on the supplement that you keep taking. You actually build your own powerhouse inside your gut. Now that gets diminished again through modern lifestyle and things like that. But the idea is that you have these bacteria now living as part of your ecosystem. Spore based probiotics usually are transient, so that means you take them, they have some positive impact, but they don't colonize in your guts, so they eventually leave your body again. That's why at omnibiotic we use these strains that are natural to the human intestine that are not spore based. The other interesting thing is, which I think is a difference also between Europe and the US is that in Europe some agencies, regulatory agencies actually have raised some concerns about spore based because some spore based probiotics might be tricky if people have a suppressed immune system. So that's, you know, that's another kind of aspect that at least omnibiotic is considering.

I do still use spore based probiotics as well. Is there any reason not to use both if you like the spore based ones you're using?

No, I don't think so. I think, you know, again with omnibiotic the main idea is to you really focus on something beyond the gut. So you're thinking, you know, what are your end points? You, you like he talks. So you are really focused on, you know, supporting your detoxification and metabolism which you can do through omnibiotic. And then if there's a spore based product that maybe, you know, does something else that, that you like and it has some good science and, and studies behind it, I don't see a reason why they would be, you know, canceling each other out or anything like that. I think what you're really working on which is why we're here today, is just making sure your gut is the strongest possible. And whatever you need to do for your gut to make that happen, I would say that's really the end goal.

I think you're right. And there's also an upper limit to how many pills and powders are you willing to take, how much are you willing to spend on it and things like that. And just to be really clear, I have no upper limit for how much I'm willing to take. I'm planning to live to 180. I take 100 plus capsules or powders and things a day, and I have no issues with that whatsoever. And I'm an outlier.

Yes.

I'm also trying to figure out what's possible here. So if you're listening to this, there's some pretty strong clinical results. I think he talks is the most exciting. But if I just took antibiotics, I'd probably like the A B10. So the idea here is you can try it, you can see what works, and you can decide, you know, I want to alternate between them. You can, you can do whatever you want. And this isn't a thing that says you have to do all these things to be successful. I'm not telling you to do what I do to be successful. The idea here is this is a potent tool in your biohacking arsenal to change the state of your body or of your mind. And it turns out you have some MRI scans that will show you that as well. So I think there's a clear case to experimenting with different prebiotics and different probiotics and seeing what works for you. And these are good combinations with some of the best clinicals I've seen anywhere. So I'm pretty excited about it.

Well, thank you. Yeah, I think, you know, just to round it out here, the gut is at the foundation to supporting so many systems in the body. It's the gatekeeper of what comes in and what stays out of our body. As you said, it's kind of this tube that connects us to the outside world. So sometimes, you know, a probiotic can be an essential, or repairing your gut is an essential first step to then building with other tools in your toolbox. So I think what you said is really important. It's not that you always have to take the same supplements for your entire life. It's what are you currently hoping to support in your body and where in your journey are you, what are you working on that needs support?

Do I need to keep omnibiotic in the refrigerator? For longer term storage. Is that a good idea?

No, you don't have to. I mean, unless you were to store it like in your shower where it's super humid and hot and you know, like little speckles of water get into the box, then I would say that's not a good idea. But the sachets themselves are actually designed in a way to keep temperature more regulated and moisture out. So if you open these, you will see a very fine lining on the inside of the sachet that helps to keep your probiotics fresh and in kind of optimal shape, optimal form.

Okay, so that's probably not something you need to worry about. And if they're older, like say you forgot to take some for a while, are they still going to be good?

Yes. Don't go years past the expiration date, obviously. But we have, we guarantee that the CFUs that are set on the label are alive and in the package at least until expiration date. So, you know, because they're freeze dried, they have a really high shelf life. And because of that prebiotic matrix that is in the powder, as we talked about earlier, the activation and water gets them kind of to be at their peak state. They're actually fun fact. They're freeze dried at their peak performance state. So we're not using bacteria that are already at the end of their lifespan. They're freeze dried at their peak performance state. And then when you rehydrate them, you're getting them at that peak performance state.

Okay, I like it. Is there anything else that people just don't know about probiotics? Stuff that, that you just wish that we knew?

You know, I think people are becoming more aware of this. But one thing I always find surprising when I start talking about probiotics, many people still associate probiotics just with digestion, you know, and they will say, oh, but my digestion is fine, do I need a probiotic? And as we just talked about, probiotics and your gut in general influences so much more than just digestion. So I think that's something that many people are still kind of learning and catching up to is if you think probiotic. I really think a probiotic is one of the foundational supplements to take for optimal health versus just you take it when you have diarrhea or you take it when you have constipation.

Yeah. The fact that you poop doesn't mean that your digestion works very well. It has to do with, with your skin, it has to do with dark circles under your eyes, it has to do, even with hair, with cognitive function, as you've shown in the studies. So, yeah, good digestion isn't something you're probably. You're even going to be able to determine without some lab tests.

Exactly.

Be perfectly clear. Let's see. Before I ask the next question, I realize I've been remiss. You've been kind enough to offer code DAVE20. So if you guys want 20% off, go to omnibioticlife.com use code DAVE20 to get 20% off. Because I do want you guys to try this. If you think it might be helpful for you, pick one. And if you are saying, yeah, I'm good now, then don't pick one. It's all good. The idea here is, you know, it's available and now it's more affordable. What about sibo? Small intestine bacteria overgrowth? And this is something that can apparently happen with some kinds of probiotics, even where you get too much bacteria. Do you have any data about omnibiotic and sibo?

Yeah. So, you know, I think for sibo, that's one of the things where I always say, work with a practitioner who really knows gut health because you want to understand how bad is your sibo? What exactly is going on? Placebo, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth can often be a sign that something is amiss in your large intestine. So, you know, you kind of need to understand the whole picture of your entire GI system, depending on the practitioner. We've talked to many practitioners about this. Some like to start treating it with antimicrobials or even antibiotics. In that case, you know, anytime you take an antibiotic, especially once the SIBO has been cleared, you want to really focus on replenishing your gut flora, because otherwise it's very likely that these unwanted bacteria just come back because you're. You need a strong gut flora to also keep those opportunistic bacteria and possibly unwanted bacteria in check.

I like that as well. So it sounds like you don't have specific data on this. I've seen people improve dramatically from having good gut bacteria present. And I've had sibo years and years ago. I look at things like environmental mold as a trigger for creating biofilms. And I think it's a really good idea to talk with the doctor. And strangely enough, fasting can make a difference, too. Where you don't feed them for a while, they go away. So this is a thing where there's lots of forums online and you can talk with the doctor about it. I am not opposed to taking antibiotics or even the natural antimicrobials like grapefruit seed extract and oregano oil. Those are going to take out a lot of your good gut bacteria, too. It's not like olive leaf extract is harmless or something. Even garlic, it can have that effect. So what do you do? You take the natural or the chemical antibiotic that gets rid of the stuff in sibo, and then you replenish with the good stuff and you have a formula specifically designed for that?

Yeah, we. I mean, many practitioners do really well with the omnibiotic AB10. You know, even if you're taking just the kind of herbal antimicrobials. And then since oftentimes sibo goes along with inflammation in your intestines too, and can trigger leaky gut, many people like to then after a month or so of the AB10, switch over to omnibiotic stress release, because again, there we have actually multiple studies showing that improvement in zonulin, improvement in gut barrier function, and improvement in just bacterial diversity in your intestines.

Okay. It makes so much sense. I would highly recommend and anyone listening to this who's been dealing with SIBO and all to consider repopulating your good gut bacteria. If someone's taking antibiotics, do they take the omnibiotic AB10 while they're taking the antibiotics, or do you wait until you're done to start taking it to fix your gut? After. After you take antibiotics?

Start as soon as you start the antibiotics. Because what's happening is, you know, many people, they take antibiotics for a few days, and then they get really bad diarrhea. And that is actually a function of your gut just getting eradicated of the good bacteria that keep your digestion healthy, and you're just flushing things out. And what you really want to make sure is that even though you're still taking the antibiotics that are killing off a lot of also the good bacteria in your gut, you want to just have a steady stream of good bacteria coming in so that you're hopefully not getting to this very eradicated state. That being said, take it during antibiotic treatment. And then also we usually say, at least for the number of days or weeks that you took antibiotics, take it for another that many days or weeks after. So if you're taking antibiotics for two weeks, take it during that time and then follow it up with another two weeks so that you give your gut flora real replenishment after finishing the antibiotics.

Okay, super helpful, Hannah. Thanks for a fantastic interview, and thank you all for listening. This is one of those times where There's a product that has really broad ranging biohacking benefits. The fact that we're seeing these 50% or 70% improvements in things that are considered disease states, they're also things that weaken you, things that lower your performance. So whenever I see a new technology like this that's come together that allows you to shift things in a major way, I think it's worth your time to know about it and to know that, okay, if you want to give it a shot, use code DAVE20 on omnibioticlife.com and save 20%. And if you do it for four weeks, like Hannah's talking about, and you're noticing a giant difference, well, there you go. And if you do it for four weeks and you don't see any difference, well, then don't do it again. But I think there's a substantial chance that if you're into biohacking, whether you're already doing really well like I am now, and you're looking for what's next, or maybe more likely, you've still got that extra £20 that won't budge, you've got some brain fog, you're tired, but you can see you're moving in the right direction. This might be a really big step. So I want you to know about it. And that's why Hannah was kind enough to come on the show and give you a discount.

Thanks, Dave, for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk about gut health and how it can really impact your health and wellbeing.

Awesome. I'll see you all on the next episode. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.