In this segment of the conversation between Jamie Wheal, Rick Donlin, and guest Jason Silva, the participants explore how extreme pleasure can counteract the re‑experience of trauma, leading to catharsis and lasting healing. They discuss the therapeutic potential of low‑dose MDMA, emphasizing that modest amounts can foster oxytocin‑driven safety and allow individuals to revisit and remodel traumatic memories, which are inherently plastic. The dialogue draws a parallel between this therapeutic window and the post‑orgasmic state, proposing the latter as a natural, non‑pharmacological analog for achieving similar peak states. The concept of "post‑traumatic growth disorder" is introduced as a framework for turning trauma into growth, and the speakers express a sense of civic responsibility to share these insights while formal clinical trials progress slowly.
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What I have found and what's a part of some of the neuroscience work that I do, is that when the body is re experiencing a trauma, but it's coupled with extreme pleasure, they cancel each other out. And that's why some people experience so much catharsis and even permanent healing when they go to these peak states.
Yeah. Post traumatic growth disorder, right?
You said post traumatic growth disorder.
Yeah. Well, you literally. You find ways to make the most of it. And that was true with Rick. I mean, Rick Donlin and I were at the Battery in San Francisco. We were in a conversation with our friend Jason Silva. And it was in between sets, right? And we were talking, and I was like, hey, Rick, how's the research going? What? Lower dosages of MDMA were actually more efficacious therapeutically. So, like, rather than somebody rolling their face off and loving everybody, including the couch and the potted plant and their therapist they just met, they're like, no, I return an oxytocin where I feel safe, secure, and enough, and I can revisit my memories, and I can. And then I can sort of take them off their shelf. Because memories are plastic, right? They're constantly remade and made again. I can clean them up and then I put them back on the shelf. And I was like, wait a second. He was in. The closest analog we found is the post orgasmic state. So that was another bell. I'm like, wait a second. So this is clinical trials. Tons of people suffering, long waiting list. It's still. No matter how they've been blazing through phase three trials, it's going as fast as it possibly can, but it's going to be a long, long time before that makes its way around the world, you know? Or we could pursue this esoteric state known only to scientists as post orgasmic, you know, and how else could we get people there? So it sort of felt like more like a civic responsibility to share the information.
