Temperature Hacking for Better Deep and REM Sleep with Matteo Franceschetti

You're listening to the Human upgrade with Dave Asprey. What about meal timing? So you're Italian, you're supposed to have dinner at like 9:30 at night, right?

Yeah, I adjusted that too. I, I made a couple of changes. So let's, let's talk about meal, alcohol and cafe. First of all, I mean alcohol has a major impact. And what you don't realize, or at least I was not realizing a few years ago, is you feel, oh, now no, I relax my mind so I will sleep better because I'm a bit loser because of the alcohol. But the reality is when you look at your metrics and for your HR and HRV now they are all over the place. So HR goes up, HRV goes down and so the quality of your sleep is worse and you don't realize that. So I completely cut alcohol. I didn't have alcohol for the past two years and a half now and it's massive. The other big thing is the meal. As you were saying, there are a couple of things that have an impact. First the time of the meal. So the best would be to have at least three to four hours to eat three to four hours before going to bed. We see a lot of our customers tagging late meal and we see correlations with a drop in the quality of their sleep. Another factor that has an impact on the quality of sleep is carbs. And so what we see is that people tend to fall asleep faster if they have carbs, but the quality of the sleep during the night and also their heart rate change in a negative way. So heart rate gets accelerated and sleep quality drops.

Oh, this is interesting. So is this any carbs or is this like a sugary dessert?

That is a good question. We don't have that level of detail, so it could be both. But yeah.

With all the data that I've seen in myself and with working with people on sleep, it seems like having some carbs at dinner allows you to make serotonin which then gets methylated to make melatonin. And when people are on a no carb diet, know keto for more than a couple weeks, their sleep quality seems to go down. Is the keto trap or the fasting trap? Because cortisol goes up. Right? So there, there's gotta be some time of day and I know it's not morning when carbs are, are good and it seems like it's dinner, but it's not a spike in blood sugar that you'd want. And what my, my dream here is that at some point down the road, you're gonna have this amazing set of data about sleep from eight sleep. And then maybe we get our levels, blood sugar data and you guys meet up at a conference somewhere with machine learning people around who say, what if we mixed our anonymous data and just found the keys of humans saying, oh, this anonymous person had blood sugar levels like this and ate this kind of stuff and had this kind of sleep and we put it all together and go, oh my God, it turns out that everyone should have know 2 grams of pasta at dinner. And if we do that, world peace is achieved. Yeah, I don't know that we quite have that much data, but do you see a world where this is going to happen?

Q1, this Q1 is going to happen. We're already.

So tell me what's happening in Q1.

We are going to start pulling in all the data from all the other devices. So any device that is connected with Apple health or even not could be levels, it could be Garmin, it could be any wearable. And we're building a pretty large data science team. And so the idea is to start working on insights and correlation between the data from day. It could be fitness data, it could be nutrition and correlate with your sleep quality at night and also your heart rate, your HRV and respiration at night. And so obviously by the time you start, then you need time to analyze the data. So call it six months after is when we will know if it's 2%, 5% or 15% carbs. That is right enough to help you fall asleep, but without having a negative impact on your sleep performance.

So we're going to get that data and it's a big challenge. I wrote, in fact, I funded Bulletproof in the very, very early days before I had any venture funding. I wrote, it's called a blue book for hedge fund managers and investors about biohacking and saying what are the investment opportunities that are going to happen here? And then I flew around and presented that and talked to investment managers and I painted a picture where what you're proposing there is going to happen. And the scary part is that we have this thing called the exposome, and I just mentioned that in a podcast the other day. And it's a word that most people don't talk about. We talk about our genetics and our genome and we talk about epigenetics, but we never talk about the exposome, which is the entire sum of everything you're exposed to over your life, including glyphosate here, injections of whatever you didn't choose to inject over there or all sorts of things that you don't even know you're getting exposed to the cycle of the moon, just everything in the universe. So it's like a life size map of the universe. And even with your data science team, well funded company, how do we know which variables we don't know matter. I feel like we're to the point where we're over that first hump where the data is now being gathered, but it hasn't been brought together and Apple Health and Google Health are working to bring it together. And I totally trust Google to just use all my data only for my own good and to never use it against me because they would never do that because they're Google and they're nice people and it says right there be evil in their strategy. Right, but maybe on the Apple side there's a little bit more privacy. We'll see if they adhere to that. But you're going to then take your own set of data which is private and how are you going to be able to mix that with people without giving away the farm? Which is always the big concern.

I mean the interesting thing is as you were saying, I think phase one, so phase zero of the self quantified people was 10 years ago. Now I think for the past five years multiple devices collected a lot of data. So we finally start having data and now the next phase of the industry will be to start analyzing and correlating this data which is what we are doing at the end of the day. I mean for us the key is to really start discovering what are the correlation even because they are really, really personal. That is another thing I don't like when you read on the book, oh you should sleep this amount, you should sleep at this temperature, you should stop eating at this time is completely different. Right. I'm on a keto diet, I fast and I use CGMs and my wife as well. And I noticed that fasting for me works really well while instead for her is terrible and her glucose level, they drop way below the minimum. Right. And so you understand that when you hear people saying oh you should be fasting is bullshit. You might, you maybe you and I we should. But someone else should have everything or.

They should fast forward 12 hours, not 24 hours. And maybe they should fast in the middle of the day, not the middle of the night. I mean we just don't know to your point. But you have the data to know. Yeah, and I'm.

And so we want create, we want to create a personalized profile health profile for nutrition, fitness and sleep.

I think that we are getting close. Over the next couple years, it's going to happen. A big part of what I'm doing with Upgrade labs now is where I'm focusing on this is we have facilities where people come in and do high end recovery and exercise things way more efficiently. So you and I are interested in sleep efficiency. You're solving sleep efficiency with 8 sleep. And I'm saying we're wasting huge amounts of time in the gym and getting almost no results. That was my story as a 300 pound guy. Like, we can do way better and I can help you recover better. And I think eight sleep will be able to say, oh, look, you also recovered better.