Testosterone Crisis: Why 75% Of Men Have Low Energy (Do THIS To Fix It)

For the next 20 years, most doctors and most people will still believe that testosterone causes cardiovascular risk when it protects men from it.

Your testosterone level can actually be the single best marker of your overall health.

Shall and shah.

Sha Lin Shah.

Shall and shah.

Everyone alive is low in testosterone unless they're on an aggressive program to do something about it.

At least 50% of obese people are testosterone deficient. This is not a male conversation. People think it's just this masculine hormone. But it's important for both going to a pharmacy. You're a male, you have 30 options to go and pick your choice. What do you want for testosterone? Right. If you go for the females, there's not a single FDA approved female testosterone.

If you don't have testosterone, all the things you do don't work. Why is testosterone so foundational? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Why has there been such a misinformation campaign about testosterone for the past 20 years?

Society, you have a lot of misconceptions with steroids, bodybuilding, cheating athletes, and then you just have this toxic masculinity that it gets wrapped up in and people forget this is just a metabolic hormone. So the research has been great, but researchers don't often have the biggest microphones. So I think a lot of that has just led to, you know, a lot of confusion around what is pretty much one of the most basic needs of both males and females.

Why is testosterone crashing globally in men and women?

Lots of different reasons. Right. I think you have environmental factors from, you know, food sources, water, you know, endocrine disruptors around us that people are really not conscious of and continuing to put into their body. And then you have the lifestyle aspects, whether it's, you know, it's comorbid with obesity or you have people's sleep cycles that are totally disrupted. Right. I mean, we're looking at screens 24 7. Basically, people can't sleep. They think it's a good idea to pick up their phone. Phone and start scrolling. Right. So the time when we should be producing these hormones, we're just totally off. So it's combination, it's just clash of both worlds.

The more I think about it, yes. Microplastics. Yes. Fragrances, Endocrine disruptors. I think LED lights and sleep disruption in combination with lots of carbs is maybe the reason, but it's happening at all ages and everywhere. So what happens when a man is low testosterone?

So the symptoms pretty much manifest in some regard them as general in some sense. Right. That fatigue, especially that afternoon, fatigue sets in. You could have issues around sexual health or erectile dysfunction. Again, sleep can get affected, brain fog, cognitive function.

So low testosterone causes bad sleep.

Yeah, exactly. So you have this vicious cycle, and that's actually why it's so important. Like, I'm always advocating for still better health, right. Whether that's diet, sleep, stress, exercise. But hormones are a foundational level right above that. And you need them to get into this virtuous cycle to fix maybe some of the things that you are having trouble with.

It's interesting you said virtuous cycle. So many people I know are saying, wow, I'm 45 and I'm going to raise my testosterone the natural way. How successful are they?

I think if you have to look at most sort of ambitions of whether it's, you know, general guys out there, Americans, whatnot. Right. Most often it fails. And it's unfortunate. We're not rooting for that to happen, but we know human behavior is such. So again, virtuous cycle, upward spiral, whatever you want to call it, like, help yourself.

Yeah. Testosterone therapy is kind of a personal issue for me because when I was 26, I had all kinds of health problems, including obesity and my longevity doctor, when he saw my labs, he kind of laughed and said, dave, your testosterone is lower than your mom. And I sent my mom to the doctor because he's a longevity doctor before me, and I'm like, what? And when I went on testosterone, man, my brain changed. And I've been on testosterone the vast majority of the time since then. Medically supervised physiological dosing. And it's made me healthier and stronger and more motivated and. And some people saw this, oh, that's cheating. Like, no, having low testosterone is horrible. But I did go off of all testosterone for about a year when I was stress testing the bulletproof diet. And I had everything right I could, and I got my levels up to 700, which is pretty good for the modern world. But I feel best at a thousand or eleven hundred, because when you eat a good diet, at least what I would define as a good diet, you'll usually have more sex hormone binding globulin, which sticks to your testosterone. So I've been on this mission in the biohacking and longevity world to say, if you don't have testosterone, all the things you do don't work. Why is testosterone so foundational?

So it really goes. I mean, again, there's an androgen receptor on every organ in your body across all your tissues. So testosterone operates all the way down to a Cellular level. Right. Mitochondrial health is affected by testosterone. So I mean, I kind of take this the layman's way of explaining like even again, that symptom of fatigue. Right. Like something in your cells are not working. Right. So you're at that level. It's driving your overall.

Wow. I didn't know that mitochondria had testosterone receptors on them.

So it does get affected. Whether it's mitophagy or even calcium regulation that happens at mitochondrial levels. Testosterone has a role in. So I think this is really, and I think it's a great topic for 2025 because mitochondrial health is really coming to the forefront and probably best suited for this audience to really understand it. It's not just, again, at these symptomatic levels, it really goes all the way down to the cell.

So poor mitochondrial function generates low testosterone, Low testosterone generates poor mitochondrial function.

Yep.

I did not recognize that relationship. That's really cool. Okay, now what's the right testosterone level for say a 30 year old male?

Good question. I think it does vary a little bit. Right. Naturally, you know, if you take a handful of healthy 30, 30 year olds, it's gonna, it's gonna vary a little bit. So I think if you're in that normal range, which we won't use today's normal ranges by any means, but you know, you're in, you know, you're closer to a thousand nanograms per deciliter, I think give or take, depending on that 30 year old. But what we generally like to advocate for is especially for these younger population, test understand your baseline.

Yes, 30.

So when you're 50, you'll actually know where you should probably dial into.

Got it. It's like that was advice in my first big book was even if you think your hormones are healthy, just measure. Because if they're actually healthy, you'll know. I never got to do that because I was sick since I was a teenager. So we had to guess and just figure out by, well, what makes me feel good. And it's possible to do that. But it's a real gift if sometime in your early 20s, when you're ripped and you're feeling really good, get a lab test. It's more complex for women though. Correct. So how would a woman know what her correct testosterone level is?

That is a tough one. Right. Because as you know, the younger levels, they have much, much more testosterone levels and that kind of declines. Obviously, even pre menopause they have four times, five times the amount of testosterone as they do estrogen. So that's probably a little bit more of a symptomatic path.

So to be really clear, women have more testosterone than estrogen. Yep. I don't think most people know that.

They don't. They don't. And the females really do. So this is not a, this is not a male conversation. Again, when you ask about the history and why. But people think it's just this again, this masculine hormone. But it's important for both when I'm.

Advising people on what works well and when I talk with longevity doctors, they generally say pin your sex hormones, including testosterone, to the levels of a healthy 30 year old no matter how old you are. What have you seen? Does that work?

Great question. I do want to say Kaisertrex is, you know, is indicated for men with low or no testosterone due to certain medical conditions. Obviously there's a wealth of research out there related to other conditions. Low testosterone is implicated in so many conditions.

Thanks for making sure that you've got all of your bases covered. You guys heard that loud and clear. It's indicated for these conditions and, and doctors are free to write scripts for drugs to do things that are not the one study that they're indicated for. So if you have low testosterone, which means you're fricking alive, you should probably get your levels tested, find out that I'm right and then talk to your doctor about this stuff because it's real and it really matters for longevity. And even if you don't think you're gonna live a long time, it just matters for giving a shit about everything you do. That's how important testosterone is. I would not be here. I would not have done all the things I've done in the world if I was low.

T it' that big I think is a rough right. Encouragement to be on therapy. Right. And, and kind of look at that as the bar that can work. And especially if we weren't fortunate enough to test those levels when we were 30, there's probably a, you know, a good level. Say it's again that thousand nanograms per deciliter. I don't think they'll go wrong because again you're not a super physiological number. You're not at a, at a very trough low level. I think your body should generally perform pretty decently.

One of the difficult things for replacing testosterone in women is that if you're ovulating then it really matters what time of the month you take testosterone because I tend to think in free testosterone versus total but you can go from 1.5 to 3.5 for free, for women and for men. How important is free testosterone versus total testosterone?

Extremely important. And I think as we're as testosterone is becoming a more and more talked about issue, free testosterone really should be part of that conversation from the get go. This is the testosterone that your body can actually use. Yeah. Testing it is a little bit more complicated and sometimes they have to use calculations and so forth. But what we've also seen, with SHBG levels rising across both men and females, oral contraceptives, historic use of them, have led to elevated, permanently elevated SHBG levels. It really reduces that free testosterone that's available for either person. So free testosterone, you know, as much as again, t is being talked about today, I think it's a great time to say this is part of the discussion. Don't ignore it. Test that at the same time.

And I have seen profound changes, especially in women at perimenopause and in menopause when they go on testosterone. And sometimes progesterone and estradiol balance your hormones out so you feel good working with the longevity doctor but just getting the testosterone to where it was when you were 30, which for women, for free testosterone is usually around 3.3.5. It can vary as well, depending on just what makes you feel good. But it's like all of a sudden, like the wise, I care and I've learned, I've gone through life and I'm ready to do like, it's, it's like a happiness turns on. And for guys, same thing, it's different levels. But if you're used to being low testosterone, which you have been, if you're alive right now just because of the way the world is, but somewhere around 45ish, it feels like the mental lights dim a little bit and you're just less motivated. And you don't know it because it's a very gentle decline. And then they go on testosterone and they're like, oh my God, like I forgot I liked sex. And you know, I want to go to work and I go to the gym and suddenly it works again.

I'm seeing results.

Yeah.

I mean, both male and female. Right. So, you know, that's why a lot of the discussions with our leading, leading doctors say, you know, treat both partners, you don't want to leave one and then not treat the other because then you have this even further mismatch, right?

Oh, yeah.

And it's amazing too. You're getting this like you're saying at 45 or so when this light switch kind of switches for men, I mean, we did a survey amongst over a thousand men, and it was amazing. I didn't realize men's health was in such a poor state. We had like 75% of respondents said, you know, they feel, you know, their energy level is terrible or poor, their libido terrible or poor. 60% falling asleep after dinner. I mean, not. Not at bedtime, after dinner, like after dinner.

One of the big problems with testosterone historically has been getting it into my body. So when I started out in my 20s, I had this testosterone cream. It was kind of greasy, but it worked, and basically rub it on my perineum. Then I had kids. And if you get just a teeny, tiny bit of testosterone cream on your sheets and it gets on babies, it completely messes with the hormone. So it's not even, I would say, safe to do that. So I switched to injecting. And when I look at the sites I've injected for 15 years or something with an ultrasound thing, you can see where the tissue just over and over the tissue layers are actually disrupted. I had to go over them with the wasabi method to, like regrow the fascia there. And the fact that you came up with a new delivery method for testosterone, it's sort of a dream for people who use it. Talk to me about what you did to make testosterone into a pill.

Like you mentioned, these other modalities have existed for some time. They all have issues. Given the scope of the problem of testosterone deficiency, we knew that oral a pill is going to be the only way to get the adoption that you really need to, frankly, help the mass population. The issue with testosterone, oral testosterone, actually, the first testosterone ever synthesized was oral in 1935. The problem was this was liver toxic.

Right?

So really, if you talk to a lot of clinicians that have not kept up with it today, they'll just, you know, their flashing lights will go on saying, hey, look, this is liver toxic. That's why we have to refer to this as next generation oral testosterone, because this is lymphatically absorbed. So it goes through the small intestine and has no liver toxicity. And that's really where the innovation is. In that formulation, we use something called phytosterols, which are even cardiovascular risk benefits. They're used as food additives.

It's like plant cholesterol, basically.

Exactly, plant cholesterol. And then that's really what drives the bioavailability of the testosterone on decanoid that we're using in the capsule.

I got a little capsule right here.

It's a Little, it's like a fish oil, right?

So, so little white pill, two in the morning, two at night.

That's, that's the most common dosing that we see.

Yeah, that's what I take. Not the smallest pill, but they're, they're soft gel kind of caps, so they, they swallow easily. I may be the wrong person ask. I take a handful, but these ones are easy to swallow. You're invited to my 14th biohacking conference in May of 2025. Some of the speakers lined up up include Joe Dispenza, a globally recognized expert in neuroscience and neuroplasticity. I'd say probably a highlight yesterday. Joe Dispenza was absolutely incredible.

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The people here are fantastic. The speakers, phenomenal. Reset, restore and rebalance the integrity of your entire biological system at the biohacking conference. It's going to be amazing. Go to biohackingconference.com to get your ticket. Now. Now what's interesting, you basically have plant cerules or plant waxes inside an entericoted capsule. So my stomach won't digest it. It passes through the stomach, it opens in the small intestine and then it just absorbs directly.

Yep.

And normally you would use testosterone, cypionate or enthonate, the two forms that people usually inject. But you have on decanoate in here. What is that?

So that's just, it's another chain. It's, it's, it's a, it's a longer chain that's been added, but because we're using it in an oral form, it's still short acting.

Okay.

That's why it's twice daily dosing.

All right. When I take Kaiser Tracks two pills in the morning, how quickly does my testosterone go up and about how much?

So within two hours, you'll, you'll get that rise. So really peak levels between three and five hours. And in terms of, in terms of the rise, I'll use our phase three data. I'll cite that. So the average T level Was, you know, around 200. And the C max that again across these doses was 1,000 nanograms per deciliter. Just about right. So that's almost an 800 point rise.

Wow. From two pills. But it only lasts for a little while.

Correct. And then, so then you're taking the second dose and again you. We've seen some variations in terms of when that timing is based on, you know, sort of patient profile and also the benefit of potentially having that testosterone finished by the end of the day. Say you're going to bed and that's it. That's why with Kaisertrex we see LH and FSH stay in the normal range. And I think that's really important for a lot of folks.

We're going to get into that in a minute. There's another thing, even before that that's really important. I have tried every form of testosterone there is. When I got the pellet, just because I'm a medical tourist, call it that way, I did two pellets. So that took what, about six months. I lost an inch of hairline. Wow. Right. It was a big problem. And like, oh my God. So I stopped using the pellet. But you know that hair doesn't normally grow back. Of course, I'm a biohacker. I did some stuff about that. But I learned the importance of normal circadian rhythm for testosterone. So it rises in the morning. Right. And then it's lowest sometime at night. Right. And then the next morning it rises. But with Kaiserrex, I usually take a couple in the evening. Should I be taking two in the morning and two at lunch?

So yeah, per. Per our trials FDA, that's why we did it, because we were looking 24. Okay, well, well, we did it in morning and evening in the trials because of a 24 hour C average.

Okay.

And however, again, looking at circadian rhythms, that's what we've seen a number of our KOLs, actually one actually published a really good abstract on this at the 400mg max dosage and doing it at morning and lunch because then you are most aligned with your natural circadian. So again, it's still your LH and FSH stay on even if you're taking it later. But again, personally, I take Isotrex as well. My dosing is at morning and lunch.

Okay. I might switch to morning and lunch. One thing I do know is that if testosterone's too high in the evening, it can reduce sleep quality and no one who's listening wants to do that. So it's possible to take two pills in the morning and two pills at lunch. You don't have to take them with other fat. Right.

So you do take Kaiserrex with a meal.

Okay. You probably take them with some fat. Blend it into.

If you want to take it with some fat. Yeah, you get in your. If it's in your coffee, that's totally fine. We've tested.

So guys, not Kaisertrex on the coffee. If the fats in your coffee. Coffee you can literally swallow Kaiser trucks with danger coffee that has some butter and MCG in it.

Exactly.

And it'll still work.

It's low fat. Is. Is what's required to. To activate the lymphatics.

Oh, low fats require. So then you.

Least low fat. Right. You can go higher if is so inclined. But you don't need. What happened with other oral testosterone is you have to take excessive amounts of fat, which are really not feasible. 30, 40, 50 grams.

Yeah, it's a lot.

Nobody's going to do that in a single meal.

So this doesn't require bile and all that stuff to digest it. Okay. So that's cool. That means I'm doing it right? Two in the morning now, two at lunch, and then I'm going to get a big spike. And because it goes back down, the body knows that there's a time every day where testosterone is low. And when testosterone is low in a normal rhythm, the body then makes two hormones called LH and fsh. What do they do?

So LH is your. Is your testosterone signaling hormone. And FSH actually has to do with sperm production. But again, we kind of group them together because the pituitary is sending these signals to the testes again at night, hopefully during uninterrupted sleep, to tell those productions to kick back in. And, you know, having them on, I think it's a. It's a big fear for a lot of guys, too. They think, okay, I'm starting testosterone therapy. And even though I may be on chronically, the thought of shutting down my own production completely just unnerves me. Right. For whatever reason.

So Kaiser Tracks won't shut down your own testosterone production because it's so cyclical.

Exactly.

Okay. In the early days, 25 years ago of testosterone therapy for longevity, I had to take estrogen blocker Arimidex, which has negative effects. I don't use that stuff anymore. And I also had to take something called Clomid. And I say had to. I chose to because I like my health. And Clomid controls one of the two LH And FSH actually controls them both, doesn't it? Yes, it messes with other hormones, I'll put it that way. But it was the best choice at the time. And I was able to have two very healthy kids while on testosterone therapy. I just had to take a couple other pharmaceuticals to do it that probably over the course of many, many decades, would have side effects. So I don't do that stuff anymore. But I did notice, even when I was on them, my balls shrunk. Now, as long as everything's working, I don't know that the size of my testes is something that I consider to be a cosmetic thing. I actually don't really care. But maybe they're harder to kick. But when I went on Kaisertrex and I stopped doing the other testosterone, I did see an increase in testicular volume, right? So that's because now my body's saying, oh, look, I'm getting testosterone at the right circadian rhythm. That means that I should start working again. And for all the people, like, there's one guy who's written a longevity book who's just terrified of testosterone. Oh, I'll never be able to do it. And it's like, God, are you afraid much, dude? And what's happening here is if you have the right rhythm, it'll work. My only other choice would have been to inject myself every single morning with a low dose of testosterone. And that is a lot of stabbing, more than most people would do. And this is usually, well, you can do it sub Q, but it works better in the muscle, right? So stabbing yourself in the butt muscle every single day isn't viable for most people, including me. And I'm pretty open to needles, right? So you have this new thing. You discover this Kaiserrex, where you take four pills a day, and you have the daily rhythm back. So this is really cool because it's painless.

Fits right back into your routine, right? It's approachable, it's easy, it's discreet. If you want it to be again, you're not sitting there like you're saying, you know, stabbing yourself in front of your kids.

I used to ask my kids to stab me.

Little helpers.

Yeah. Well, I meant, like, hey, guys, you probably shouldn't be afraid of needles, you know, Here, stab me. And the first time they did it, they were freaked out. And after a few times, they're like, yeah, I'll do it. It's cool. Like, you know, we don't need to have extra trauma. I guess it's just the circadian Timing.

So circadian timing drives a lot of. Again, I think when you look at the historic issues with testosterone, things also like hematocrit, right? Elevated hematocrit, which, you know, if you look at the traditional medical community, that's also why they've stayed away from this. They've had this 54 level, right? And they do not want to be crossing that. But again, with super, super physiological doses that happen for most guys because that's just whether they're ending up at TRT clinics or what you have it that they're, they're jumping over these levels and then they're having to go donate blood. Traditional clinicians are worried about their liability. So I think that's also a big one. And as you mentioned, the aromadex, the estradiol conversion or estrogen conversion. So, you know, your body's smart. If you're putting in the. This much testosterone, right, the estradol is going to go and match it. So, you know, while the high T may not be so much of an issue, you're going to get some issues with those higher levels of estrogen and hence why people almost blanketly block it. In a lot of, in a lot of clinics and scenarios, again, with Kaiser tracks, if you're looking at physiological levels, the estrogen conversion is not really, you know, again, it's a. Unless you have some sort of predisposition, you're not showing up as an estrogen converter there.

And there's a few herbs and things you can take to stop that. In fact, I can name them if that's helpful. Or do you have a recommendation there that you're allowed to talk about because you.

So we don't, we really have not seen, again, a lot of people, you know, sort of go down those paths. But if helpful, I think it's fair.

All the guys in my family have man boobs. Universally, I think we have a genetic thing that more easily aromatases. And it's funny, different people depending on your genetics. The things that are upstream from testosterone, which is basically DHEA and pregnenolone, they can convert to testosterone or to estrogen. Depending on genetics, I easily make estrogen. So if I take those things and I don't control which pathway it goes down and I don't increase my estrogen excretion, I grow boobs. So I can actually tell like, oh, look, I'm getting tingly nipples. I guess I should block, but I haven't had that happen in like the last year or so. The most important herbs that will stop Testosterone from turning into estrogen, whether it's your own testosterone, the way it happens in all the guys in my family, or maybe you're injecting still because you haven't tried Kaiserrex, the two herbs that matter most. Well, one's an herb, one's a supplement. One herb is called Crisin, as C H R Y S I N and Crisan will help to stop testosterone, natural or supplemental, from turning into estrogen. So if you find it's happening in your labs, you could do that. And another really interesting compound that's in my most recent book is called Calcium D glucarate. And calcium D glucarate helps the liver remove estrogen more quickly and microplastics and pollution. So taking a capsule of calcium D glucarate is probably a good idea anyway. But that'll help to make sure that if estrogen forms in your body as a man or a woman, if you're a woman with excess estrogen, this can be dramatically life changing. Then you take some calcium D glucarate and now the liver has like a superpower to bind to high levels of estrogen and endocrine disrupting chemicals and excrete that. So for me, I don't have to take that when I'm on Kaisertrex, but I've taken it for a long time when I was injecting testosterone.

That's super interesting. Again, I think we love these examples because you're bucking that trend in that sense something you've historically experienced. But for a mechanism, again, maybe it's back to that daily rhythm so your body's able to clear things, I guess, let's call it in a more smart fashion, whatnot. Right. Again, really interesting.

And just as a long term testosterone user, I recognize the circadian rhythm is so important. So for many years I'm like, this is so much. I'm just going to inject on Sunday. So I just always remember. But then I should inject half as much on Sunday and half as much on Wednesday. So it's stabbing myself even more and okay, I'll do that. But even then a spike twice a week goes way higher than it should. It messes with LH and fsh and that's where all the testicular atrophy and all the fears from people and as far as I can tell from my understanding of mechanisms and what you've seen in your studies, you're maintaining all the other hormone systems, you're just raising testosterone and it doesn't hurt. This is actually A massive change in biohacking longevity.

Yep. And it's even, even gets more interesting when you look at the SHBG levels and Kaiser track's actually reducing the SHBG levels and increasing free T preferentially. Right. Oh, so this is, this is, I think again, it's not really talked about today in, in a lot of ways because again this, this conversation around free testosterone. But if I, if, if Kaisertrex can take you, keep you in a physiological range, but lower your SHBG in our trials was around 30%. In some of the abstracts and work that we've seen, it's been up to 50%. So you see a free T increase by anywhere from 2 to 4x. And, and again with a physiological.

Incredible. Okay, if you are carnivore or keto or even just on a high fat moderate carb diet, your SHBG levels will go up. And I have seen this reliably with the bulletproof diet on tens of thousands of people over the years who've talked with me. So the healthier you're eating, the higher your shbg. And if you're saying sh what? SHBG is sex hormone binding globulin and it sticks to your testosterone which drops free testosterone. And who cares about total if it's not usable? So you're avoiding that problem and you're actually lowering shbg.

Exactly.

The only compound that will lower SHBG that I'm aware of is egcg, which is a rare extract of green tea. And no, drinking green tea won't do anything. You need to have like a pill of the stuff. And so you don't need to do that either, although you still might want to for other reasons. So this is kind of a new, it's a new era of testosterone replacement.

Yeah, exactly. We've unlocked this, this new sort of component. Right. I think it changes the paradigm, treatment and again, even from, you know, healthy diets. But also the unhealthy, look at all the unhealthy folks frankly just drinking too much. Right. Like, I mean that's a, that's a problem in our population and that, you know, you see guys in the 80s 90s, even higher levels of SHBG and you can cut that in half the way they feel. And that's where you see the symptomatic responses.

Wow.

Right. So not only, I mean the free testosterone is obviously acting metabolically, but that patient reported response that's coming from the free tea.

So about six months ago when I talked with your medical team, Said, all right, I'm going to give this a trial. They're like, maximum dose is four per day. Right. Any more than that, your levels won't go up anymore. And I'm like, maybe I kind of have a hot date and maybe I wanted to take an extra one. Is there any reason I couldn't do that? Other than the fact you only tested four of them?

Yeah. So again, totally off label in that sense. But I think you can, you can go back and think about, you know, Kaiserrex acting in a short acting fashion. Right. So, so you can almost regard it, say you did not take anything, you know, any testosterone that day. You did, you missed your pills, but you were going to go out that night and you had a dose in, in the evening. Right. You will see your testosterone.

But if I took four at once.

Well, again, even if you had taken them earlier in the day. Right. The half life is around four hours. Okay, so, so you know, if you're doing, if you actually, if you do the math and kind of space things out, there will be, you know, you may be at a trough. Even if you had taken earlier in the day.

Wait, oh, the peak is in two.

Hours or four hours between the three and five hour mark. Okay, so that's starts to. Yeah, exactly.

That's the half life. So it's going to be gone in about six to eight hours. Correct. So if I miss my morning dose and I just took four of them at lunchtime, granted, I'm going to have a much bigger spike that evening. Is that a problem?

Look at what's happening on injection therapy. Right. Even if you're just splitting this dose in twice a week, think about peak levels.

It's like 1900.

Yeah. And I think a lot of people are even well above that. Right. So. So you're probably not hitting the same peaks that you're doing from an injection, even on say four capsules. Speculating.

Okay, so there's no, right now, there is no medical limit. Like the small intestine can only absorb 200 milligrams of Kaiser tracks at one time.

So.

Okay, so, but people working with their physicians could adjust the number of capsules they take to get the results they want at any time. Yeah.

Clinician can dial in. Right. I mean, if they're monitoring labs and so forth and they believe somebody should be at X level, then. Then they can. They can. And it's easy to monitor. Right. Because you could take your labs a couple times and figure it out.

I mean, you're like, you're CEO of Kaisertrex, you are bound by FDA duct tape everywhere on your body. I totally understand that. I'm not.

Absolutely.

And by the way, I'm an unlicensed biohacker who can't even take away my non medical license.

Right.

So I can ask the questions. And there are many doctors, like many who listen to the show in the longevity field. And so they're all going to have those same questions. And so guys, we got the answer there. The answer is that the small intestine can absorb more. So if a patient wanted to take Kaisertrex under your supervision and to adjust the number of pills based on their individual use case, like a hot date, maybe they could take three at lunch and just one in the morning and they might have a better date.

Totally up to that position. But I can see again, you, I think people have a good idea how the PK profile works or you know, carbokinetics work and you can adjust accordingly.

Wow. What motivated you to do this?

Really? I guess, interesting story for me. Right. So actually this started as an investment opportunity. So you know, this was around the time, you know, rewind 10 years or so when the FDA came in and said there's cardiovascular risk with testosterone there.

Those fuckers, they were, they lied.

Yeah, absolutely. They knew it at the time. And because that's the reason that we got involved, or I got involved I should say, is that, you know, there was a lot of commotion around this. There was a, you know, drug in development in the RTP area, North Carolina Research triangle. Again, as an investment professional, I was looking at this as an opportunity. This didn't sound right. We spoke to all the experts, did the research and said not is this, this does not cause cardiovascular harm, but actually is cardio protective. So we just need to go out and show this. And again, this is going to change men's health and health care in general. So that's really when I dove in. And Again, this is 10 years ago and it's been like an onion. We've been peeling back the layer and understanding still how much more important testosterone is the overall body. These things like the SHBG and free T effect, which really came about later in our development program that we sort of uncovered and realized, or LH and FSH non suppression, if you will. So again, stayed involved, led it through phase three trials. Again when we really had a good picture of how impactful this is, that's when I dove in and said, okay, I'm going to run this company and we're going to we're going to commercialize the drug. We're not going to go through insurance because payers and insurance are the evil middlemen of this space. And nobody's ever going to see this drug if we let it go down a traditional path. And it's also, again, I'd actually compare it to how the opportunity was. There's 50 GLP1s in development right now. No shortage and tons of competition. There are no oral testosterone in development. There are effectively two players out there, and Kaisertrex is the only one you can really access. So that's when I wouldn't say double down, triple down on. On how big this opportunity is for 25 million men here in the U.S. and you know, that many more globally.

I think your math is wrong.

It's too low.

Well, there's about 350 million people in the US and around 50 or around 49% are men. It turns out Mother Nature gives you extra women because some men die in war, but one man can get multiple women pregnant mean that way. So we got 49% of the population. Everyone alive is low in testosterone unless they're on an aggressive program to do something about it. So I think you have 90% of 49% of the market as your addressable market. Everyone over 18, some of them under 18.

And it's an easy way for people to think about it. Right? At least 50% of obese people are testosterone deficient, type 2 diabetes, everyone who's.

Fat, unless there's some weird, like, lymphatic thing, your white fat makes estrogen and you need a higher testosterone. Testosterone. You just don't lose weight if you're low. T. Right. So this is a big deal. And let's talk a little bit about the fda. And I know that you're not allowed to say anything bad about them. And they're the great golden savior.

We challenge the FDA a lot. I'll go straight for it. And again, that's why the label changed. So happy to talk about the fda.

Good deal. Most people I know are a little hesitant and. And I've built a $750 million revenue consumer packaged goods company that the FDA didn't love. You know, when I was at Bulletproof, because I was making truthful statements, they just weren't health claims. And like, how dare he make performance claims? I'm like, anyway, the FDA is under new rule by people who I think have the right mindset, but they destroyed women's health because they told them that hormone replacement, bioidentical hormone replacement Was bad for them. And the data is very. The sooner a woman goes on bioidentical hormone replacement after menopause hits, the more protected they are. And you could have read this in my longevity book, but that knowledge is still not out there because of some weird stuff that the FDA approved in the 70s from horse pee. Okay, so they screwed women by lying about bioidentical testosterone. And then about 10 years ago, they put on a black box the white worst warning you can have saying testosterone replacement, which makes men happy and focused and motivated to say no to stupid government stuff. By the way, I might have a little passion here.

Go for it.

They told us that it caused cardiovascular stuff, which is a lie. And they did that. I know, because they're nefarious, because they wanted to sell more of some anti inflammatory thing. They were wrong.

Exactly right.

And they just, what, maybe a month before we recorded this, they recalled their own warning label. They pulled it off. They no longer say that, but they know that for the next 20 years, most doctors and most people will still believe that testosterone causes cardiovascular risk when it protects men from it.

Absolutely. Yeah. I just, my team was literally just at a primary care, you know, conference. Again, we have to do some of this traditional stuff and nobody had a clue that this, that this study was out and that came out in 23, that the label changed Again. The current thought is that it causes cardiovascular events and that's just the furthest thing from the truth. So, yeah, no, I think there's a couple things at play. Whether it's just two sides of a battling division, don't like hormones, and then I do think testosterone in some sense is too good to be true. So we don't want to affect sales of our. A lot of big pharma pays all those PDUFA fees. So we don't want testosterone to be as prevalent as it should be because that's frankly just not good for drugs.

Let's try a little experiment here. Check this out. Hey, ChatGPT, does testosterone cause cardiovascular risk?

It depends on the context, dose, delivery method, baseline, health and age all matter. Here's the short version. In healthy men with low testosterone, physiological testosterone replacement therapy usually lowers cardiovascular risk, muscular risk, or has no negative effect. It can improve body composition, insulin sensitivity, inflammation markers, and endothelial function.

That is awesome. See, if you're a doctor and you're listening to this or you're a patient who has a doctor who doesn't know this stuff. I didn't know what the answer would be. I didn't Test that ahead of time.

Well, that's the right thing.

That was chatgpt and I'm sure Claude will tell you the same thing. So we understand that. Again, my ChatGPT is kind of customized because I'm a biohacker. And I told it that I might have a medical license, but the reality is that's what science is showing and many listeners still believe that. I gave a talk at a men's group here in Austin. My friend Craig runs it, and I talked about testosterone. And the room is full of guys between 45 and probably 65ish, and maybe three of them were on testosterone and the rest of them all needed it. You can tell by looking at them, you know, the pot bell is the signs of low testosterone. And I talked about something that we haven't mentioned on the show, the relationship between testosterone and dopamine. Can you talk about that?

So I think that again, the neuro side is really interesting, both on a low testosterone and even as far as increased plaques and whatnot. So I think on the same side, these receptors and these genes are effectively turned. Turned on by testosterone. Right? This gene expression that happens. So same thing that happens to dopamine levels. That's why the mood anxiety. Why are we handing out SSRIs left and right? Why would we just test testosterone levels and start there?

Standard of care should be that if someone comes in with symptoms of depression, you test them for low thyroid and low testosterone before you prescribe an ssri. Just mic drop after that. Yeah. And most of the longevity and functional medicine doctors that I work with would just jump up and down and say, hell yeah. But 90% of medicine, traditional care physicians who just, you know, are not following this stuff. They don't know, right?

Yeah, They've been taught. Again, it's guidelines. Right. And again, I'm not saying Kaiser trucks is indicated for this, this, you know, But I think the research, we can do it so we can get there. But I think most people need to understand that. Yeah, you should be testing these things. Right? Like, let's start with testing. Why is it so hard to get a testosterone test for an average male today? Right. They go in, they ask for the test, and the doctor thinks they're crazy. Why do you need this? Right? Like why? You want to know my cholesterol? You want to know my blood pressure, you want to know my A1C? But your testosterone level can actually be the single best marker of your overall health. If I only have one thing to test.

It's interesting, you know, you're not allowed to say because no one knows this, by the way. But if you go to the fda, they literally walk around going, oh well, you have a drug or a food, you are no longer in the realm of free speech. You are in the realm of controlled speech. And they say it without even laughing or feeling shame, which they should feel. And if there is a study that says something to be true, you should be allowed to say it. I can. So let's see what happens with testosterone levels and depression. And let's ask our little friend here. Okay, here we go. Does raising testosterone in testosterone deficient men reduce depression?

Yeah, it really does. Especially if their testosterone was low to begin with. Most studies show that bringing testosterone back to normal in deficient men can significantly reduce symptoms of depression, improve mood and boost motivation. The effect size is moderate to strong, depending on how low they started and how responsive they are to hormones. One big Meta analysis from 2019 over 20 randomized controlled trials found that testosterone therapy had a clinically meaningful antidepressant effect comparable to some prescription antidepressants without the same side effects. The likely mechanisms, more dopamine activity, better brain derived neurotrophic factor and reduced inflammation, all of which help fight depression.

Straight from Sage's mouth, by the way. I asked ChatGPT what it wanted to be called and it said Sage. Sage, which is kind of cool because it's an herb and you know, someone who knows stuff. No ego there, right? So let me ask you this. As the CEO of Kaisertrax, if you were to sit in front of an FDA hearing or in front of a patient and say, you know, I'm not allowed to make claims, but let's ask ChatGPT what it thinks. And ChatGPT said it. Are you responsible for what CHAT GPT says?

It's a good question. I'd probably have to check with my lawyers. Is that sense?

I think you should, because you might have a way to tell. I'm not saying it. This is what someone else says. I would never make these claims. I didn't even know what I was going to say.

But the beauty is, and I agree with that. Right. I think, I think the beauty is that like, like, you know, chat GPD said 20 randomized controlled studies. Right. So it's not, it's not shooting from the hip. And I think that's really what's honestly messed up about the whole testosterone sort of issue at large is that the science has been so strong, the, the experts have as have been, you know, robust. And the work that They've done. So this is not, you know, something that's come out of left field, and people are trying excessively hard to just prove that it is what it is. And I think that's why we feel so comfortable, you know, being out there and talking about the issue. And the data is really good. So, again, I think it's become a passion project, to be honest, because that's really. I think we're educating every single day. And, you know, I think what I would say about the agency is I feel that maybe there is a bit of hope now and we can go after all these things.

Yeah.

And even female, too. Right? I mean, that's part of. So I started something called the Testosterone Project. And there's three main components. One is descheduling testosterone. It should never have been a controlled substance to begin with. It was Congress that did it. The only hormone that's ever been controlled testing by the US Preventive Task Force, saying, hey, look, you gotta go ahead. If you're over 40 and even below, go ahead and get tested. Third is a female testosterone. FDA approved female testosterone. There's no reason. And they should not put up blockages for something like that. That, again, it's been relatively straightforward for a male approval. Female should not be in any sort of disadvantaged position.

Is it legal for a physician to prescribe Kaiser tracks for women?

Clinicians can prescribe any drug that's available for any patient if they think it's the appropriate thing.

Okay. Do you have clinical studies of kaisertrexin women?

We are. We are gearing up for this.

Okay. If a woman takes about a hundred milligrams, that seems like. Now there's one pill that seems like that would be about what would raise her levels up to a free T of 3.5. But I know you're not allowed to say anything about that.

So it's probably about 15% of the male dose. Right. And I think, you know, generally they'll aim for 10%. So again, clinician sort of option.

So your pills may be a little big for women.

Potentially.

Potentially. Although you also have absorption questions. And I think most women, when their testosterone goes up slightly higher, they really like their lives and they can take it every other day.

Think about pellets, too. Right? I mean, a lot of females are on. I mean, not a lot. I mean, we're talking about a million, million and a half females that are easily on pellet therapy today.

I don't think that's a good thing. Right. I mean, it's better than being low Testosterone as a woman, but that it's that lack of the variation and especially, I mean, most of those are perimenopausal or menopausal. Right. I don't think a lot of physicians put testosterone pellets in women who are still ovulating. Right. It's not good for sleep, which is a big issue in menopause and in perimenopause, especially to have it always pinned. So I would have no issue if I was a woman and I was perimenopause or menopause. And I said, you know, I'm going to take one every other day, right? Because it's still better and you still have the circadian curve. So some days it's higher, some days it's lower. And pretty soon you'll be like, huh? When it's higher, I get shit done. I like my life, my kids listen to me, and then I take my partner to bed. Right? Because this is what testosterone does for men and women. It's a motivation hormone. Right. Chatgpt mentioned the antidepressant effect is primarily from its effect on dopamine. And in, I think, two or three of my books, I've talked about dopamine extensively. And it's the hormone that motivates you to work towards a goal, Right. And it doesn't reward you when you get the goal. But if your testosterone is low, your dopamine's low, and then you're screwed, Right. And there's other benefits, like if you want to have a, you know, round butt or big biceps or whatever, having enough testosterone is good. When women have physiological doses of testosterone, they don't get all bulky, they don't grow mustaches and all that kind of stuff. They would have to overdose on it. Right?

Yeah. I think that's just a misconception for, for. I mean, it sort of goes back to even females when you talk about strength training, right? This, this old notion, like, if I lift weights, I'm going to get jacked. And, like, couldn't be further from the truth, Right. I'm going to get healthy, is what they should say.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, we probably have, you know, mutual friends that are, that are well known in the health and wellness space that are advocating for this. So it's a thing. It's not, you know, and again, I think the funny thing is when you think about all of the benefits that occur and people are really scared about a little hair growth, people are used to, you know, waxing their, you know, arms or doing a little Facial, like, that's, that's the least of your concerns. If you really think about your overall health and wellness and what you should be thinking about.

So we're aligned there. I'm thinking of Gabrielle Lyon, who's been on the show a couple times. She's a good friend. And, you know, she's, she's, she lives heavy. She's a lot of protein. Not bulky, just healthy. Right. And she's helped a lot of women understand testosterone and protein. Talk to me about CEOs who are low testosterone, what happens.

So I think it's, it's, it's. And it's probably, again, more common than anyone thinks. I mean, again, your sleep is disrupted, you're on your phones all the time. You just, and you're on the go, so your routines don't exist, so you really can't function as well. And I, again, I've been on Kaisertrek since we launched the drug.

Right. How many years is that?

And so it's been two years.

Okay.

And actually when we started this, I said, you know, it was 10 years since I, since I started Mary, of a sort, I was low testosterone then. I was 30 years old. I had just had my first kid. And I said, while I'm doing this, I should test my levels. And again, sure enough, they came back, they were sub 300. And that was, again, I was 30 and I wasn't in bad shape.

You know what, though? Having a baby drops your testosterone for the first two years.

But this was actually just before she was born in that sense. But again, at the end of the day, I wasn't overly symptomatic, but I think when you're on therapy, you get a better idea of how you were before and how not. Okay, that was right. And even for me, primarily would be afternoon fatigue. And that changed dramatically. I don't drink the same amount of coffee. I mean, I like coffee and still enjoy it, but I don't need it the same way. And again, you just have that vicious virtuous cycle that you're able to do everything. I still have to be working 12, 12, 14 hours a day, but I'm still up at 4:30 in the gym. Right. So I think there's a, again, without it, you, you're just not operating at a, at an, at an optimal level. And again, these manifest in different ways. So you, you can't pinpoint it all the time. But I think, again, knowing from a symptomatic perspective what's happening. But then, like, think about vitamin D, right? Everybody Says you need to have adequate vitamin D. I bet you you pull most people off the street. They don't know why. Yeah, you're just saying, look, you need to have appropriate levels.

Yeah. And not only that, if they have appropriate levels of vitamin D from supplements, they have a tissue calcification because none of them got the memo. Take vitamin dake.

Right?

Vitamindake.com Guys, D A, K, E. Because you have to have K2. There's also a role with vitamin D and testosterone. Can you talk about that?

So again, vitamin D is a precursor to these hormones. So you do. Absolutely. Again, this whole notion of let me do it myself. Right. So it's definitely not happening if your vitamin D is low as well. So again, full advocate, like, make sure those things are in line and in check. But again, reality is there's probably a lot, you know, there's 10 other things that are driving against that testosterone level. So you may still not have it, but I wouldn't ignore it.

I care a lot about libido, but I care more about lifespan. How much does testosterone replacement affect libido versus lifespan?

I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Yeah.

At the end of the day. Right, so. So libido, again, some of those things, you know, anecdotally. Well, again, both in the trials, you'll see it in erectile function and whatnot. But you talk to a lot of guys once they go on, you know, trt. The funny thing is, right, they'll talk like in the morning, wow, this is. I haven't felt this way since I was 18. Right. So. So the libido is back in, in again, a lot of patients. And I think that's also. It ties in a lot with erectile dysfunction because ed, obviously you have millions and millions of guys on ED meds, but do they always have an ED issue or do they sometimes have a libido issue? And I think it's important to understand the differences. So again, check the testosterone level. You probably got a better shot at going a few extra years.

I love how you speak like such a CEO of a pharmaceutical company. Try to align guys. In my longevity book in Superhuman, I go through the data on all cause mortality and testosterone replacement in men and women. And let's just say if you'd like to live longer than you're supposed to, you probably should have enough testosterone. In fact, the exact amount that a healthy 30 year old would have. And if you do that, you'll like your life better. And if you're one of those weird People who think health span is the only goal because you're afraid to say the real goal. Goal is perfect health for as long as you choose to live, even if it's hundreds of years. That's the real goal. But even if you just think healthspan is all that's possible, even if you're a doctor who says you're into longevity and that you can't do it because health span is the goal. Testosterone. Testosterone. Testosterone. And you know who I'm talking about. Have you seen any research on testosterone levels and epigenetic age?

It's really just been. It's been anecdotal.

Okay.

A lot of the. Again, you know, as you step into this world, which I think has honestly been one of the most interesting things from this journey, is really getting to know a lot of the longevity folks and spend time and kind of see this collision. Right. Of hormones, peptides and other longevity compounds.

Just in general, though, do you know about the role of testosterone in epigenetic aging?

So I've seen it actually more on the telomere side.

Okay, interesting. So longer telomeres from higher testosterone.

Yes, longer telomeres from higher testosterone and also lower shpg, which is good for.

All sorts of stuff.

Exactly. So you're really. And again, this is where we'd love to kind of do some of the studies and whatnot, because people are talking about telomeres, and you look at longevity. It's a very important topic.

Telomeres are one of the big seven pillars of aging in my book. They matter. And there's something else I glossed over earlier. We talked about how injecting testosterone will prevent the body from having adequate levels of FSH and lh. And we just talked about those around growing sperm and having big balls, to put it medically. There's also many longevity doctors, even a few studies showing that LH and FSH themselves are longevity hormones. So injecting testosterone the old way that suppresses LH and FSH may have negative effects on the brain or on other longevity factors. But taking it every morning and at lunch with Kaisertrex, because it mimics the body's natural curve, where testosterone's higher in the morning anyway. Well, since LH and FSH are at their normal levels, all of those observations that those are also longevity hormones, well, you're not hurting them anymore. So I think this is a clear shift in the right direction because it's easier, you don't have to stab yourself, and it's a much more natural dosing regimen. But here's the question. How much does it cost?

How much does it cost? Good question. So again, as I mentioned, we, we purposely made Kaisertrex a cash product. We've worked with distribution channels that are used to working with, you know, cash concierge wellness clinics and so forth. So on average, the average price of Kaisertrex is probably about 200 bucks a month.

Month. Okay, so in line with the low end of what injectable testosterone costs.

Yeah, I mean you people are paying 200, 300 bucks for injectable testosterone at a lot of clinics or sometimes more.

I mean honestly, if you go to Mexico and buy testosterone enthonate there, which I actually like better than cypionate if you're going to inject. But if you buy that there, it's going to cost you that much for a month supply, at least in most places. There's probably some like back alley where it's cheaper. But so this is not crazy expensive.

And use supplements that cost honestly this much today.

Oh, I take one supplement that's $400 a month stem regen and it's worth it. Right. So this is not crazy at all. In fact, this is one of the most important health spends you could do. Now people can't just go to kaisertrex.com and order it. Right. They need a doctor to do it.

So you still need a prescription. So we've again longevity clinics, concierge clinics, but we've also partnered with telehealth too, so we've made it a lot easier.

So if I go to your website, will you just shoot me over to a telehealth?

There are a couple, there are a couple telehealth providers that we partner with.

How do I find them?

So, so they're on kaisertrucks.com good. Or you know, you can go to like say for example one is, you know, Thrive, Thrive Wellness, Live Thrive Co, or we've even partnered with Vitamin Shop a couple different places.

That makes it easy.

Yeah, exactly. Again, I think all of these brands speak to different people. So you know, we want people to be comfortable with who's serving them and other, other things that they may be looking into.

I would go to kaisertrex.com and then there's some providers listed there and you don't have to go in and see the doctor. Right.

So you get your labs done. Right. Either you go into the LabCorp request, you can have a kit mailed to your house because again it's, they are going off blood, blood tests.

Right.

And then, and then you'll meet with a doctor virtually online.

Perfect. So it's relatively low stress. And how often do I have to retest when I'm on it for most doctors?

So different, you know, again, depends on the provider, what the protocols are. I think what we've seen are, you know, after your dose is dialed in. I mean we've seen doctors easily go out sort of six months because generally if you're, you're responding to the way that we've seen it. So hematocrit's PSA levels are in check. Everything's in check. Then you know, again, it becomes a lot. The management of testosterone changes with Kaiser tracks to a certain degree.

I order most of my pharmaceuticals from India because it's just easier that way. It's just too much work. And I have all the doctor friends and I have all the talent. I just don't want to get on the phone. It's stupid. I don't know who built the system where I need a permission slip to manage my own biology. I just reject that fundamentally. And by the way, I love my doctor friends and thank you for writing all the scripts you do. Just to be really clear, like I have two personalities there. But you know, if there's something that I've taken for 20 years, I'm like, I save money and I'll just do this. And if you guys want me to tell you why I order it. No, you have to find your own side because if I tell you, then we shut down. So that is an option. But if. And also I take peptides. I've used research chemicals for SARMs and for like I peptides. I do all the stuff that you're not supposed to do. And the only reason it set up that was because the FDA keeps stopping me from doing what is my God given. Right. So guys, stop it. And thank you, Bobby Kennedy Jr. I love you. So all that said, if you see testosterone and decanoate online as a research chemical or as an ingredient, it will not work because the way you have it in these pills, it's the outer coating of the pill and the plant sterols that you mix it with. So Kaisertrex is a delivery system and a form of testosterone.

Absolutely right. So even honestly complex compounding pharmacies, that again, it really hasn't taken off because there's no data, they haven't shown that they work. But it is the formulation, right. That is the secret sauce. That's what rip is to get around. And yeah that you really, that's what gets it into your body. And that's important.

These pills are white. Did you put titanium dioxide in there?

Correct. It's a good question. I have to come back to you on that one.

I'm watching. All right, so this is one of the big problems in, in pharma is usually pharmaceutical oriented formulators. They just reflexively put the most toxic, crappiest stuff in. And I learned about this years ago because I co founded an at home lab testing company that was started because a, I think it was a Merck researcher. They're going to actually stop a drug trial because of side effects. And she developed the lab test that could figure out that it was the compounds, the excipients, the carriers, the dyes that were causing all the side effects. And when she proved that they changed the excipients and suddenly they had a working drug. So then they like here you can have the lab test you invented. So this is a problem. And so I actually looked at your ingredients label. I don't remember if there's titanium dioxide. It's not the end of the world if there is. But I'm just asking you as a CEO, use clean label standards as much as you can. Plant sterols, not a big deal.

Yeah, I think that's totally fair. And I think what we did when, when Kazotrex was developed again you have testosterone on decanoate, you have the plant sterols. We have an ingredient again it's called LG90. Like we used the highest quality ones that we could still keeping in mind that we had to, you know, pass certain parameters. Yeah, exactly. So even if you look at other form, you know, there's really only one other form and the ingredient list is a lot longer with a lot more, you know, sort of the acetoil oils and so forth. So we were quite conscious of that to do, let's call it our best and make the cleanest formulation. So Kaiserrex has the least number of ingredients in oral testosterone.

Beautiful. And I'm not at all criticizing it. I just know that not even necessarily you, you clearly understand what's going on here, that people who come from certain industries, like if you worked at Kellogg's for a long time, you're like, well of course you use the cheapest glyphosate late stuff because that's what you always do. So like you said, lowest number of ingredients. Plant sterols are entirely natural and have their own benefits. If you look at the studies for those and you have a very common gel cap and you know, it May be colored, it may not be. I don't know. I didn't, I don't remember. But I'm not that worried about it.

Yeah, no, I think that's fair. And again, like our goal was highest quality product and honestly at the lowest cost.

I, I, so 200 bucks. And guys, I don't know how much I spend. I spent my total budget for supplements and pharmaceuticals every month is about three grand. But some of them just arrive in the mail. I think occasionally things are gifted to me. So it's around three grand. But if I was paying for everything, maybe it's four grand. So yes, I'm spending 50 grand a year on supplements that would include my Kaiser trucks. But I don't track the cost of each one individually because, well, I have a whole process for that. So 200 bucks is a non issue. And if you're listening, going well, $200 is a lot of money. Yes, it is. But compared to the cost of all of the medical stuff and needles and the stuff I've been doing for the last 25 years to get testosterone that was helpful but had side effects. And with Kaiserrex, it's a lower cost and it's physiological dosing and I don't have to stab myself. Like, this is actually worth $200 with telehealth, it's usually pretty affordable. So do you have any idea what an average spend someone would spend at a telehealth clinic?

So you're probably honestly between 2 and 300 bucks. I think. Again, we've worked with folks that see sort of value in being able to treat a fair amount of people and again, keeping things accessible.

Does that include the cost of the lab test for testosterone?

It does. So that's like a monthly. Yeah, that's your month. That's your lab test, your doctor visit and your medicine.

Oh, so the first month maybe like 300 bucks.

Yeah. But again, just call it independent because you're going to have, you know, retesting and so forth. So let's call it at that 250 mark is going to take care of you. Everything that you need, you smooth it out.

So including lab tests, including doctor's appointments, which are all just done over zoom. So it's easy. Or something like zoom, man. If I'd have had this when I was 22 and my testosterone was lower than my mom and I didn't know it, I would have had higher grades in computer science. I'm pretty sure I would have. So. All right, this is profound and awesome and I Love seeing innovation in biohacking and longevity and. And physiological dosing by itself is an innovation, but oral. Oh, my God. Thank you. I don't need any more needles in my life. So the lowest price that I'm aware of is the thing that we set up for listeners. It's LiveThrive Co Asprey.

Correct.

And, guys, you can go to your doctor and you can say, I want Kaisertrex. They might not know what it is, and they might be willing to write it for you. If you already have a hormone doctor, do it there. If you don't have one, this is the lowest cost, lowest pain, most bioidentical. Best for longevity, best for sleep, best for sex that I'm aware of. Right now, it's LiveThrive Co Asprey, and you're gonna like your life. And if women go there, what's gonna happen?

They probably could get on a GLP1.

All right, thanks for the honesty. So if you're a woman, and I apologize for this, and because the clinical trials aren't done yet for women, and you'll probably come out, this is a.

Big priority for Maris in 2025. So we are committed to it.

Yeah. Don't forget that. Half the population, because we like our women to have the right amount of testosterone, to feel motivated and to have the bodies they want. So here's what to do. If you're a woman, go to your longevity or functional medicine doctor and say, I want Kaisertrex. I'll take it every other day. Write it up for me, Doc. And your doctor's allowed to do that. And they may be uncomfortable with it. If they're uncomfortable with it, you can say, dave said it's a good idea. Listen to this episode and you send them this link, and then they'll probably do it. And if they don't, and you're listening to this and you're one of those doctors, Come on, man. Don't leave the women out. They need it. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast. And if you do that, you'll like your life better. And if you're one of those weird people who thinks health span is the only goal because you're afraid to say the real goal is perfect health for as long as you choose to live, even if it's hundreds of years, that's the real goal. But even if you just think healthspan is all that's possible, even if you're a doctor who says you're into longevity and that you can't do it, because health span is the goal. Cool. Testosterone. Testosterone. Testosterone. And you know who I'm talking about. Have you seen any research on testosterone levels and epigenetic age?

It's really just been. It's been anecdotal.

Okay.

A lot of the. Again, you know, as you step into this world, which I think has honestly been one of the most interesting things from. From this journey, is really getting to know a lot of the longevity folks and. And spend time and kind of see this collision. Right. Of hormones, peptides, and other longevity compounds.

Just in general, though, do you know about the role of testosterone in epigenetic aging?

So I've seen it actually more on the telomere side.

Okay, interesting. So longer telomeres from higher testosterone.

Yes, longer telomeres from higher testosterone and also lower shbg, which is good for.

All sorts of stuff.

Exactly. So you're really. And again, this is where we'd love to kind of do some. Some of the studies and whatnot, because people are talking about telomeres, and you look at longevity. It's a very important topic.

Telomeres are one of the big seven pillars of aging in my book. They matter. And there's something else I glossed over earlier. We talked about how injecting testosterone will prevent the body from having adequate levels of FSH and lh, and we just talked about those around growing sperm and having big balls, to put it medically. There's also many longevity doctors, even a few studies showing that LH and FSH themselves are longevity hormones. So injecting testosterone the old way that suppresses LH and FSH may have negative effects on the brain or on other longevity factors. But taking it every morning and at lunch with Kaisertrax, because it mimics the body's natural curve where testosterone is higher in the morning anyway. Well, since LH and FSH are at their normal levels, all of those observations that those are also longevity hormones, well, you're not hurting them anymore. So I think this is a clear shift in the right direction because it's easier. You don't have to stab yourself, and it's a much more natural dosing regimen. But here's the question. How much does it cost?

How much does it cost? Good question. So, again, as I mentioned, we purposely made Kaisertrex a cash product. We've worked with distribution channels that are used to working with cash, concierge wellness clinics and so forth. So on average, the average price of Kaisertrex is probably about 200 bucks a month.

Okay. So in line with the low End of what injectable testosterone costs.

Yeah, I mean people are paying 200, 300 bucks for injectable testosterone at a lot of clinics or sometimes more.

I mean honestly, if you go to Mexico and buy testosterone enthonate there, which I actually like better in the cypionate if you're going to inject but if you buy that there, it's going to cost you that much for a month supply, at least in most places. There's probably some like back alley where it's cheaper but so this is not.

Crazy expensive supplements that cost honestly this, this much today.

So I take one supplement that's 400amonth stem regen and it's worth it. Right. So this is not crazy at all. In fact this is one of the most important health spends you could do. Now people can't just go to kaisertrex.com and order it. Right. They need a doctor to do it.

So you still need a prescription. So we've, we've again, you know, longevity clinics, concierge clinics, but we've also partnered with telehealth too. So we've made it a lot easier.

So if I go to your website, will you just shoot me over to a telehealth?

There are a couple, there are a couple of telehealth providers that we partner with, partner with.

How do I find them?

So, so they're on kaisertrucks.com or you know, you can go to like say for example one is you know, Thrive, Thrive Wellness, Live, Thrive Co, or we've even partnered with Vitamin Shop. Couple different places.

That makes it easy.

Yeah, exactly. Again, I think all of these brands speak to different people. So you know, we want people to be comfortable with who's serving them and other, other things that they may be looking into.

I would go to kaisertrex.com and then there's some providers listed there and you don't have to go in and see the doctor. Right.

So you get your labs done. Right. Either you're going into the LabCorp request, you can have a kit mailed to your house. You get your. Because again it's, they are going off blood, blood tests.

Right.

And then, and then you'll meet with a doctor virtually online.

Perfect. So it's relatively low stress and how often do I have to retest when I'm on it for most doctors?

So different, you know, again depends on the provider, what the protocols are. I think what we've seen are, you know, now after your dose is dialed in, I mean we've seen doctors easily Go out sort of six months because generally if you're, you're responding to the way that we've seen it. So hematocrites, PSA levels are in check. Everything's in check. Then you know, again, it becomes a lot. The management of testosterone changes with Kaiser tracks to a certain degree.

I order most of my pharmaceuticals from India because it's just easier that way. Like it's just too much work. And I have all the doctor friends and I have all the talent. I just don't want to get on the phone. It's stupid. Like I don't know who built the system where I need a permission slip to manage my own biology. I just reject that fundamentally. And by the way, I love my doctor friends and thank you for writing.

All the scripts you do.

Just to be really clear, like I have two personalities there. But you know, if there's something that I've taken for 20 years, I'm like, I save money and I'll just do this. And if you guys want me to tell you why order it. No, you have to find your own side. Because if I tell you, then we shut down. So that is an option. But if. And also I take peptides. I've used research chemicals for sarms and for like I peptides. I do all this stuff that you're not supposed to do. And the only reason it's set up that was because the FDA keeps stopping me from doing what is my God given. Right? So guys, stop it. And thank you, Bobby Kennedy Jr. I love you. So, all that said, but if you see testosterone and decanoate online as a research chemical or as an ingredient, it will not work. Because the way you have it in these pills, it's the outer coating of the pill and the plant sterols that you mix it with. So Kazotrex is a delivery system and a form of testosterone.

Absolutely right. So even honestly compounding pharmacies that again, it really hasn't taken off because there's no data, they haven't shown that they work. But it is the formulation, right. That is the secret sauce. That's what our eyes IP is around. And yeah, that you really, that's what gets it into your body and that's important.

These pills are white. Did you put titanium dioxide in there?

Correct. It's a good question. I have to come back to you on that one.

I'm watching. All right, so this is one of the big problems in pharma is usually pharmaceutical oriented formulators. They just reflexively put the most toxic crappiest stuff in and I learned about this years ago because I co founded an at home lab testing company that was started because a, I think it was a Merck researcher. They're going to actually stop a drug trial because of side effects. And she developed the lab test that could figure out that it was the compounds, the excipients, the carriers, the dyes that were causing all the side effects. And when she proved that they changed the excipients and suddenly they had a working drug. So then they like here you can have the lab test you invented. Right. So this is a problem. And so I actually looked at your ingredients. I don't remember if there's titanium dioxide. It's not the end of the world if there is. But I'm just asking you as a CEO, use clean label standards as much as you can. Plant sterol is not a big deal.

Yeah, I think that's totally fair. And I think what we did when Kazitrex was developed, again you have testosterone on decanoate. You have the plant sterols. We have an ingredient, again it's called LG90. Like we used the highest quality ones that we could. Still keeping in mind that we had to, you know, pass certain parameters. Yeah, exactly. So even if you look at other form, you know, there's really only one other form and the ingredient list is a lot longer with a lot more, you know, sort of the seed oils and so forth.

Okay.

So we were quite conscious of that to do do let's call it our best and make the cleanest formulation. So Kaiserrex has the least number of ingredients in oral testosterone.

Beautiful. And I'm not at all criticizing it. I just know that, not even necessarily, you clearly understand what's going on here, that people who come from certain industries, if you worked at Kellogg's for a long time, you're like, well of course you use the cheapest glyphosate laden stuff because that's what you always do. So like you said, lowest number of ingredients. Plant sterols are entirely natural and have their own benefits. If you look at the studies for those and you have a very common gel cap and you know it may be colored, it may not be, I don't know, I didn't, I don't remember. But I'm not that worried about it.

Yeah, no, I think that's fair. And again like our goal was highest quality product and honestly at the lowest.

Cost I, I so 200 bucks and guys, I don't know how much I spend I my total budget for supplements and pharmaceuticals, every month is about three grand. But some of them just arrive in the mail. I think occasionally things are gifted to me. So it's around three grand. But if I was paying for everything, maybe it's four grand. So yes, I'm spending 50 grand a year on supplements. That would include my Kaiser tracks. But I don't track the cost of each one individually because, well, I have a whole process for that. So 200 bucks is a non issue and if you're listening, going well, $200, a lot of money. Yes, it is. But compared to the cost of all of the medical stuff and needles and the stuff I've been doing for the last 25 years to get testosterone that was helpful but had side effects, and with Kaiserrex, it's a lower cost and it's physiological dosing and I don't have to stab myself. Like, this is actually worth $200 with telehealth, it's usually pretty affordable. So do you have any idea what an average spend someone would spend at a telehealth clinic?

So you're probably honestly between 2 and 300 bucks. I think. Again, we've worked with folks that see sort of value in being able to treat a fair amount of people and again, keeping things accessible.

Does that include the cost of the lab test for testosterone?

It does. So that's like a monthly. Yeah, that's your month. That's your lab test, your doctor visit and your medicine.

Oh, so the first month maybe like 300 bucks.

Yeah, but again, just call it independent because you're going to have, you know, retesting and so forth. So let's call it at that 250 mark is going to take care of you. Everything that you need, you smooth it out.

So including lab tests, including doctor's appointments, which are all just done over zoom. So it was easy or something like zoom, man. If I'd have had this when I was 22 and my testosterone was lower than my mom and I didn't know it, I would have had higher grades in computer science. I'm pretty sure I would have. So. All right. This is profound and awesome and I love seeing innovation in biohacking and longevity and physiological dosing by itself is an innovation. But oral. Oh my God. Thank you. I don't need any more needles in my life. So the lowest price that I'm aware of is the thing that we set up for listeners. It's LiveThrive co.