Why Your Own Mind Is Holding You Back – Peter Crone | 1141 | Dave Asprey

Where do you think perfectionism comes from?

Generally, it's a coping mechanism. It's where we fundamentally feel that who we are at our core is somehow insufficient, inadequate or not enough, which everyone can relate to. We're human. And so we develop these strategies of which perfectionism, people pleasing is one of them. So anyone who struggles with perfectionism is actually at a deeper level, struggling with self acceptance ultimately. So whoever they're trying to put on this masquerade for, parents, loved ones, bosses, it's really because at the core they're concerned for their own existence, which is the primordial imperative of every mammal.

Right?

We want to survive, but if we think we're inadequate, then we don't want to get kicked out of the gang. Because if you get kicked out of the gang in our primal dma, you're in the jungle and you're not going to survive through the night. So perfectionism is a coping mechanism for a deeper feeling of inadequacy.

Well said.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. I'm always looking for guests that are going to blow your mind or teach you something new. Maybe it's someone you've heard of, maybe it's someone you haven't heard of at all, but who's doing great work in the world. And it's going to offer you actionable things that increase whatever you need more of to be the kind of human being you want to be. And I call that the human upgrade for a good reason. And the idea here is what you want isn't what someone else wants. But we all want the ability to control our destiny and to choose the state of our biology. And I think more energy makes all of us feel better. So I found someone for you today that's going to be really an interesting interview because his title might be the coolest title ever, mind architect. I'm talking about Peter Crone. He's a world renowned spiritual teacher, he's a coach and he's worked with, you know, athletes and actors and CEOs and billionaires and every day people trying to do their best. By the way, find an executive coach with the media presence who hasn't worked with professional athletes, CEOs, billionaires. I dare you. You won't find one. So even though it's cool that Peter does that, so do I. So do a lot of other people, if you've done at least once. But the deal here is he's supporting broad numbers of people in addition to special people. And the reason that Mind Architect got my eye is that he talks about the limiting beliefs that shape your behavior and your relationships. I come across these every day in my own life, with my team, even with myself. And I'm reminded I was speaking with an employee where there was a communications issue. It was a small communications issue around not getting me out of a podcast interview in time to get into a car to go to my next interview. And she really kindly said, well, I was told that I couldn't interrupt you and I'm oh, okay. Within my businesses, we don't use the words I was told because that's like mistakes were made from Richard Nixon. It's like who told you? Right? So then we can figure out where was the mistake, where was the misunderstanding, or maybe it wasn't even a mistake, but just like chain of accountability. And so we had like a line of inquiry, non hostile, just like, oh, that's totally cool. And eventually she goes, you know what, I just believe that no one told me. But she believed that that someone had told her because it felt like someone had told her, but she didn't know who told her because it was one of those limiting beliefs that in this case shaped her behavior in a way that didn't matter that much. It just made me five minutes late for whatever. But it was, it was like an open question mark for both of us. So I think we're going to dig in on things like that, like where if you're listening to the show, what is something that's a limiting belief that you believe in that you won't know is a limiting belief because it's a limiting belief? So I think we're going to dig deep here. And Peter talks about spiritual freedom and mental peace and physical vitality. There's a great alignment between that and biohacking. That's why it's going to be a lot of fun. Peter, welcome.

Thank you, Dave. Appreciate it. And there's definitely a lot of synergy between the incredible work you've done, the community that you inspire, and hopefully the words that I'll share today.

Not just today, because you spoke at the 9th Annual Biohacking Conference.

I did.

And by popular demand, you are back at the 10th biohacking conference in Dallas at the end of May. Guys, biohackingconference.com we just announced another major new speaker who you are going to be really excited about. Joe Dispenza will be on the main stage as well. So this is going to be our biggest and Best. This is the commerce that launched the biohacking movement. Of course, Peter Crohn is going to be there. So let's get into it. Peter.

I love Joe. We did the documentary Heal Together. We. We trade text from time to time. Obviously, we're in very overlapping fields of helping people break beyond the constraints of their subconscious. So I'm excited that he's going to be there, too.

I love it. Heal Together is awesome. And people might be saying, 10 years ago, Dave, I thought biohacking was rigorous science and monitoring your biology. It is. And when you do that, you end up doing breath work and you end up meditating in a cave. And you realize that these are technologies for evolving human beings. They're just technologies that don't have blinky lights on them. If you use blinky lights, it supports the use of ancient technologies and ancient techniques, which is where it all comes together. So I love that you guys are in healed together, and I think this is just a part of gaining control of your biology. Like, I want to be in charge of myself. I am a meat robot. That's not where it is.

No, right.

You're not a meat robot. Or are you? I know. What do you think? Are we meat robots?

Not at all. No. We're ultimately, depending on which level of identity you want to associate with, most people become misidentified with this physical meat suit. Like, I am a certain age, I'm a certain weight, I'm a certain height. But from my perspective, you're a boundless, timeless being that's founded in pure consciousness. So for a lot of people, that may be a little esoteric, but it is the blank canvas upon which the physical form gets to manifest. So the unmanifest gives rise to the manifest. So who we are, ultimately, this is why I love language and some of these subtle arts like Ayurveda that I've studied, because you recognize the power of who we are as a human being that influences the human part. The human I see as the hardware, which, of course, we have to maintain.

Right.

If you're driving a beautiful pick, your choice of car. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Austin, Martin, Range Rover, whatever people are into, you have to obviously take care of the equipment, but ultimately it comes down to who's driving it. And that, to me, is my area of expertise, is what's driving the equipment, the choices, the behaviors, the communications, et cetera, et cetera.

How many drugs did you have to take to get here?

That's the unique part about my story, Dave. None. One of my friends who Does a ton of ceremonies. She gave me a really beautiful compliment once because I had to help. I didn't have to. I chose to help her with the relationship thing she was struggling with. And she said, you know what? I've done ayahuasca 15, 20 times. I've done toad, psilocybin, all the things. And she said, you're literally like human ayahuasca.

I love that. And it's funny when someone's done ayahuasca 15 or 20 times, like, oh, are you in training with the Shibbo people in the jungle to become a shaman? Like, no, I'm just making progress. When are you going to find out it's not working? And maybe the poster child for that might be Aubrey Marcus. I think it's like 85 times or something. And if you talk with Daniel. Amen. I'm on Dr. Amen's board of directors at Amen Clinics. And it's like, Dave, people use ayahuasca a lot. Their brains, man, they don't look very good because you can see the metabolic effects of it. And I use ayahuasca in 1999. I've written about it in the jungle where they didn't want to give it to me because I was white. And they're like, that's only for locals. Why would you ever do that? But I've only done it twice in my life, so I think it has risks and there are people who rely on it when there's other paths of healing. And it's been profoundly helpful for some of Michael's friends. So it's like a double edged sword, right?

For sure. And I think compassion is necessary. I mean, I've done Aubrey's podcast a bunch. I love who he is and what he does. And people do all sorts of things multiple times. Right. So I think we have to let people choose their paths.

They certainly do. I just don't want a bunch of young guys choosing that path.

Right.

Without consideration of all of the possibilities.

No. And even genetically, you know, we're both friends with Kashif, right. Like who I adore, and I did a workshop with him. And understanding your DNA, we all have a sort of, you know, predisposition to perhaps getting great benefit from. Pick your poison, whether it's plant medicine or even doing some chemical, you know, pharma drugs, which I'm, you know, neither you or I are fans of, but depending on your constitution, you're going to respond differently too.

Right.

So. And I think that's another sort of pathway into Understanding what choices we should make for ourselves. I know for me, I have zero inclination towards plant medicine. Would I benefit? Maybe. But I. Mine's much more what's called Guyana yoga. It's sort of the yoga of intellect. Right. Understanding through what we call booty, you know, to be able to dismantle these, these beliefs, these limitations, these constraints which I assert, we were born with. And that for me, fortunately, seems to work pretty well, where I'm able to see through just pure awareness where people get stuck and help them break free.

It's a beautiful perspective and I want listeners to understand. 90 to 95% of the spiritual breakthroughs I've had in my life did not come from any kind of plant medicine. Even though I go to Burning man and I'm not afraid of them, I kind of like some of them and, and I've had beautiful experiences, but the number one is neurofeedback and number two is holotropic breathing for me. Right. I've really seen profound experiences. You go to a Joe Dispenza event.

Yeah.

And you'll see same thing, very profound. So you can access your spiritual states with your mind and with your body without any pharmaceuticals or plant based anything. And that as being part of your operating system, is just a precious piece of human knowledge.

Yeah.

And so I like it that you kind of stand as a, as a figure of someone who can be profoundly aware and successful and has done the work, you just did the work in a way that didn't involve throwing up in a bucket, which is probably a good thing.

I've always been the purist, you know, I've always liked to sort of be. Whether it's my British roots or, you know, I was orphaned at a young age, so I kind of had to figure things out by myself very early on. And so, yeah, I just never, never even did drugs. You know, growing up, going to college and being an athlete where there was a lot of, you know, booze and the rest of it just. It just never appealed to me. So I'm very grateful that for whatever reasons, I have a discernment and a mind and an intellect that allows me to kind of tear things down in the most compassionate, loving way and see what's behind the curtain.

So how long have you been a perfectionist, Peter?

Well, I'm recovering now. Yeah, it was, ironically, not a great title. My friends at college now, we're going back a few decades, would call me perf, like as a short perf for Perfect Pete. And I realized at the time it seemed to be like, what a great compliment. But then I soon realized it was an immense amount of pressure. So I fortunately found my humanity many decades ago and realized that we all fuck up and that I enjoy making mistakes and not having to get everything right.

You're very open about your childhood and you talk about perfectionism. Where do you think perfectionism comes from?

Generally, it's a coping mechanism. You know, I use a lot of quotes, some of which you may have heard. That's how I'm writing in my first book. But, you know, I'll say things like, being right is the poor man's version of self worth, right? So perfectionism is sort of a greater adaptation to that. It's where we fundamentally feel that who we are at our core is somehow insufficient, inadequate, or not enough, which everyone can relate to. We're human. And so we develop these strategies of which perfectionism, people pleasing is one of them. So anyone who struggles with perfectionism is actually at a deeper level, struggling with self acceptance ultimately. So whoever they're trying to put on this masquerade for parents, loved ones, bosses, it's really because at the core, they're concerned for their own existence, which is the primordial imperative of every mammal, right? We want to survive, but if we think we're inadequate, then we don't want to get kicked out of the gang. Because if you get kicked out of the gang in our primal dma, you're in the jungle and you're not going to survive through the night. So perfectionism is a coping mechanism for a deeper feeling of inadequacy.

Well, well said.

Thank you.

Is it different for men and women?

It's different, not energetically, just in the way that it actually manifests. So again, if we look at these primal traits, the feminine tends to be focused on appearance, beauty, in a different way, but it's more about sexuality, how appealing she is to be attractive to the masculine. And the masculine, in a very typical stereotype, is the performer, the strong, the fast, right? So the perfectionism will show up differently. For a woman, it might be the need to a little plastic surgery, the right outfits. It's all hair, makeup, skin. And for the guy, it might be the corner office, enough money, maybe. Even nowadays, someone cares about what watch you wear, what car you drive. I guess people are still into that shit, but that's so they. The underlying energetic signature of perfectionism has the same current. It just manifests in different behavioral traits.

What kind of car do you drive?

I have a few.

Tell me more.

My favorite Right now is a GMC 84X pickup.

Nice.

It's really fun. But I have actually my favorite is, it's an old Defender 90 the last year they made them. Oh, those are cool.

Yeah, the Top Gear guy is into those things.

Yeah, I mean again, my British roots, I love it. I've had so many people try and buy it off me for extortionate amounts of money but I, I can't let it go.

So they're close. I drive a 10 year old Jeep but I have a hard sided hyperbaric chamber. So that's the equivalent of a Tesla because I have my priorities for where they are.

Yeah, My everyday run around you'll kind of enjoy is a Vespa. Oh my God.

Yeah.

It's just so convenient. Like it's so easy. I can park it anywhere. It gets like a million miles to the gallon and yeah. Depending on the weather.

That's right.

Yeah. I love it.

I probably wouldn't want to ride that in ice, but no. So there you go. You know, we all have our, our things. Even, even you around cars and things like that.

Listen, there's a fine line, right between understanding the difference between being attached to something versus being attached to the person who wants something.

Right.

I enjoy the finer things in life. You know, I enjoy beauty. I enjoy beautiful homes, beautiful women, beautiful everything. Like, even my own aesthetics. Like, you know, I like to keep a tidy house. You know, it's the attachment that is the difference. Like does it have to be that way? So perfectionism is starting to lean into a underlying pressure which is really self oppression where things have to be a certain way versus it's a choice. So yeah, that's when I made my shift from being a perfectionist to recognizing I have a preference for beauty.

That's a beautiful thing to say, a preference for versus if I don't have it, I'm stressed.

Yeah, exactly.

How would someone learn to go from I need to have things a certain way or I'm tweaked to. I like them a certain way but I'm okay if they're not.

It's a big step, you know, sort of from head to heart.

Right.

Those 20 inches. So really that's something that I teach. I, you know, I do a three month mastermind and what I, it was one of the modules. I talk about these insidious killers which are based in language. So even the words you use, like I have to, I need, I must. These are very common parts of English vernacular that people use or even the should you should do this, you shouldn't do that. And when people really listen to those words, you'll recognize they're actually based in resistance.

Right.

If I have to do something, there's an energy of pressure there. So if first thing to notice is the language you use around whatever it is that you think you have to do to see, to investigate, is it true? Do you have to do that? And when you really look at it, I promise you it'll always be a no. You don't have to. Even people say, well, I have to, you know, go to work. You actually don't. I mean, there's consequences. There's consequences of all choices, you know, you shouldn't do heroin. I'm again, I'm not suggesting you do, but it's.

I actually think you should. If you could get pharmaceutical low dose heroin once a week, it works better than naltrexone for longevity. I just don't have a good dealer.

If you out there for sure. But that's to start to at least help people shift from the world of suppression and self oppression into the world of choice to realize. And then if you want to go deeper, you want to look at, well, why is it that who you are believes you should or have to do something? Where did that come from? Where did you learn that behavioral trait? Was it the overarching father figure who was like, well, you have to do this or the mother, you have to do that? So it usually traces back to some experiences, however traumatic in our childhood.

In my work, I call those the weasel words because. Because they're ways your ego or your body will. Will weasel its way out of doing something.

Yeah.

Oh, I have to go to the grocery store. That means you'll die if you don't go. That's what have to means. Like. Like there is no other choice.

Yeah.

Do you know about Instacart? Like maybe they'll deliver for you or maybe they won't or they'll do it wrong, whatever. But yeah, it's just. Or you could fast all those things. We just don't. Once you put in that perspective, you stop being curious because you can't. And so if my kids say that stuff even now, and they usually don't because they grew up that way. Holding me accountable.

Yeah.

So if you say I have to or can't, it's always a lie. Every single time.

Yeah.

It's very subtle though. And people get so accustomed to using certain expressions and phrases. We're creatures of habit. And so it takes, you know, discerning mind and a certain amount of discipline for people who want to catch the words that are coming out of their mouth and really pay attention. Because we, you know, as Joe says, our personal reality is an extension of our personality.

Right.

So the way that we perceive ourselves is therefore the precursor to the reality that we think is out there. We think there's a world out there, but really it's just we're experiencing our view of life and that's what's dictating our choices, our feelings, and then the actions that we take.

Mm.

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How do you know when your view of reality is accurate versus when you're telling yourself a big ass story?

I mean, that is the ultimate conundrum, right? Because look at what's going on in the world. People will kill each other for a difference of views, right? My God is better than your God as a overarching theme to most of the wars that have happened in the world.

So I'm more woke than you, therefore I have to kill you. That kind of a thing?

Yes. Then there's a lot of that obviously happening in the world right now. So I think I like the word accurate that you used versus right. I think at least that's an evolution where most people still hang out in the wrong right realm of language and opinions, which just doesn't go anywhere. I like to, as much as I can, look at things like what works, what's not right or wrong, but what works right. It's not wrong that your producer assistant thought that she couldn't disturb you or whatever it was, but it just doesn't work for the fact that you had an appointment or an interview to get to. So then you get out of the blame and shame game and we start to tap into efficiencies and things that are elegant solutions. So that's the way I like to look at it, is let's not get into who's wrong or right, but what is. What is functional based on the intention that we're trying to accomplish here.

I was in a conversation with a teenager a couple weeks ago, and he was really kind of hung up on being defensive, just always being right. And any parent of teenagers knows this is a thing they go through that in their mid teens where they can do no wrong.

Yeah.

But I was being curious and we talked about it and. And I'm fortunate that sometimes teenagers will listen to me because I have a lot of followers. I don't know exactly where that works.

So.

And it we got into exactly what you're talking about with the idea of being wrong.

Yeah.

And it turns out for a young mind and a young heart, being wrong means being unlovable for a lot of people right now, which is why you see the defensiveness in kids and in adults.

Yeah.

And when you can recharacterize it from right or wrong to accurate or inaccurate or did it work or did it not work or even just did you learn? Because it was a mistake. And a mistake is not wrong. A mistake is learning.

Yeah.

And you could, like, see physical relaxation, like, oh, I guess if I make a mistake, I am still lovable. And so many of us, including me as a kid, we get this message that, you know, you have to be perfect.

Yeah.

Right. And that if you don't, you know, they're going to throw you out of the tribe.

Yeah.

If you were 25 and just hearing this for the first time going, oh, my God, I totally have perfectionism, what is the first thing you would do to start tackling perfectionism?

Great question. And to speak first to the teenage conversation. I do want to appeal because I help a lot like you kids who nowadays, let's Face it, with social media are under immense pressure, and it is ultimately, without sounding like a John Lennon song, you know, it comes back to love, which really ultimately the biggest challenge there is self love.

Right.

So in terms of coming out of.

That kind of podcast, are we allowed to talk about self love or will the censorship algorithm stop us?

I don't know.

That might help people be really powerful and happy. I'm not sure the world wants that. Not the people in power today. Keep going. Yeah, but in terms of stepping out of that perfectionism, I mean, rephrase your question exactly so I can address it properly.

If you were, say, 20, 25 years old today and you're hearing this, you say, I am dealing with perfectionism, what is the very first step you would take to start dealing with it?

Great.

So the first thing to do, I traffic in language.

Right.

So the first thing to recognize is there's a difference between saying, I'm a perfectionist versus I tend towards perfectionism.

That's a win right there. Okay, change your language.

So recognizing that when you're declaring yourself as something, then so it is right. It's not a truth to go back. It's not accurate. It reflects your reality. So that's the first thing is somebody might declare themselves, oh, I'm such a perfectionist. They might hear this conversation, oh, my God, this is me. I'm such a perfectionist. So that's the first thing. No, you're not.

You're not.

Perfectionism is a coping strategy on top of something you've declared at a deeper level about yourself, which is in the realm of inadequacy. Right. So you could be more accurate. To go back to accurate use of language, be saying something like, I'm not enough. Okay, we can. We'll come back to that. Perfectionism is a behavioral adaptation. You are unconsciously choosing to compensate for your feeling of inadequacy. Okay, now we're at a level deeper. Now we can get to the core of why you may be choosing that mechanism.

Right.

So that's the first thing. No one is a perfectionist. You choose it as an adaptation. Now we can look at, okay, what is the precursor to that? Behavioral adaptation. I'm not enough. Everyone can relate to that. Okay, where did that start? Well, you know, my brother was the athlete. I was never good at sports. My dad would always go with him to sports and give him the accolades and he'd get bigger. But whatever your story is, that then gave you the assumption that you are somehow less than your brother, your sibling, or whatever. Then you decided at that moment that who you are is somehow not enough. Is that true? Oh, yeah. No, I totally felt not enough. Okay, you felt not enough. But now let's investigate the validity of that statement. Is it true that who you are is not enough? Now, to begin with, the brain might be, especially after two or three decades, convinced that, yes, that's the truth. Okay, where am I going to find this not enoughness? Is it behind your kidneys? Is it in your lungs? Like, where does it exist? This is a process I take people through when I'm coaching that eventually everyone gets to what's in my head. Yeah, it is. It's sort of between your ears, right? It's in your mind. And what is the form of I'm not enough? Well, what do you mean? Like, what's it made up of?

Blood?

Bones? No, it's. Well, it's what I say. Yes, it's worse. It's language. So what you're trying to convince me is that, first of all, you're a perfectionist. No, you're not. You've developed perfectionism on top of another set of words, deeper code in your subconscious called I'm not enough. But that's language. When people see that, and I say, sir, if it's just words. Just words, blah, blah, blah, can it be a truth that that's who you are? When they see that and realize it's not a truth, it's a container. Which is why I say language. Words are the wardrobe for the soul, is what I call it. So that your language is shaping the way that you are presenting yourself. When you see that's not a truth, there's nothing, not enough about you other than your story, that's when freedom starts. Perfectionism at that point is well, well gone.

So it's about freedom from your story and knowing where your story comes from.

Yes.

And that's sometimes hard to access because if it's a really traumatic experience, which I've helped a lot of people with, you know, the brain does a good job of trying to suppress that, because we don't know how to process it, we can't cope.

Right.

So, similar to the body might tuck a bunch of toxins away in our adipose tissue to protect us. Likewise with emotions. If something was too traumatic when we were young, we'll tuck it away and forget about it, you know, so. But, yes, what you said, perfectly accurate. If we can sort of reverse engineer what we're dealing with. Relationships, health, money, the usual gamut of human problems. Where did that come what does that mean about me? I'm not loved. I'm not worthy. I'm not enough. I'm not safe. My book is the 10 knots, the 10 prisons that I'm working on that everyone has. Then we can look at the validity of that statement. Is it true as an absolute truth that you're not enough? Well, no, but I feel that. Forget about the feelings. Get into the truth. Then. What's available is what I ask people what's available in the absence of that constraint. And the number one response is usually, oh, I just. I feel so much lighter. I feel free. Now we're onto something.

Wow. You. You are going to feel more free. And I certainly have lived that.

Yeah.

That whole. That whole idea that I've been programmed by my environment. One of the first personal development things I ever did a long time ago had maybe seven pages of a survey, and they were like really fine print, just like check boxes. And these are behaviors around your house that you saw around in your family when you were a kid. Do you see it from your dad or from your mom? And there are little things and big things. Were they messy? Were they not messy? Messy. The interruptions, all these things.

Yeah.

And. And there was a column for mom and for dad. Right. And then there's a column for. Do I do this right? So there's four columns. So then you go through the. The first two. Like, okay, mom and dad.

Did you.

Did I do it there? I don't do most of them. And then the. The whole exercise was. Oh, that other column. Check the box. If you do the exact opposite.

And.

And after four pages, I've stopped. I'm like, okay, I get it. Like, I'm either doing exactly what my parents did or I'm doing the exact polar opposite of what my parents did.

Yeah.

And there's very, very few things that I was doing that were not programmed and I couldn't see any of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that was really an enlightening thing for me. And today, when we're working with people at 40 years of Zen. This is my five day neurofeedback program. The recent attendee just said it's like the best plant medicine ceremony I ever did without the plants.

Yeah.

Because you go into these really altered states just from your own brain and their healing states.

Yeah.

So what I find is exactly what. What you do. Is that okay? When it was bullying, then. Okay, we know. I'm still trying to prove I'm good enough. That's why I have a jet and six companies. And, you know, I'm not happy. Okay, great. That's a common thing with people who go there.

Yeah.

But sometimes it's a little bit deeper, like, I don't know why. And in my case, it turns out I had. I was born with a cord wrapped around my neck. I had birth trauma, and I was lucky enough to find someone who could help me go back and figure out what it was and address it.

Yeah.

What do you do for people who don't remember how they got programmed the way they're programmed?

Yeah, great question. And I feel the good thing about not even remembering an event is it sort of becomes irrelevant because the energy associated with it still drives us.

Right.

Meaning the. In your case, you know, what I could see is. And also if I have the invitation to point out something behaviorally that would be associated. I didn't know that piece of information. So you just gave it to me.

Right.

I'd never heard that. So if we feel into. And I'll help you, are you open to me guiding you a little bit with that?

Absolutely.

Okay, so think about. Because you're a dad, so you've obviously experienced having, maybe witnessing birth, at least having a baby. I. Yeah. If a baby is entering this new paradigm, which itself is shocking, and they are, quote, unquote, being suffocated to a certain degree, what is that child's experience? Well, if you were to feel it, don't, don't know it, feel it.

Right.

Feeling. So, okay, if a baby is coming in and they, you know, potentially can't breathe properly, what would that experience feel like for a being?

It's all somatics. Most of the work I do today on myself is around somatics. Like where in the body, where in your energy field is it? And you know, can you manipulate that? It's not in the brain. Right. It's going to be somewhere. And they got, you know, in fact, I like the, the homunculus, those old, those old statues from thousands of years ago. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes. But I also want to keep you on track.

Right.

Because this is what, from a baby's perspective, you're going to go to the areas where there's the most nerves which are represented in those statues. And so it's like feet and hands are really big. There's a lot of nerves, lips, tongue. Right. And then, well, genitals. And then you have, of course, throat, heart, gut. And sometimes it's weird hips or knees or whatever.

Yeah.

Where. Where stuff gets stored. And so if I'M looking at myself now, but I've learned a lot. Right. If I look at myself now and I'm having a thing like that, I'm going to know and I'm actually going to start with, where in the body is it?

Yeah.

And, like, what does it feel like? Like, is it hot? Is it cold? Is it big? Is it spiky?

Okay.

You know, does it have a color? And I even teach my kids to draw it when they're first becoming aware of. Of emotions. Like, I don't know. We'll draw that one.

Yeah.

If you're freaking out and because curiosity turns off fear. Anyway, so my practice would be, I don't know what's going on in there, but I just don't believe whatever the feeling is. Because the feeling is probably B.S. it's just my body trying to control me.

Got it. As an adult male. As an adult male, I would assert that that's a coping strategy that you've developed.

Right.

But beneath that, the baby, the infant that's being born doesn't have that kind of intellect, doesn't even have language yet.

Just feelings. There's nothing else.

Exactly. So to come back to my question, what do you think that baby might be feeling as they arrive, as they're being born into this paradigm and this cord is around their neck? What does that.

Oh, I understand your question. I just wasn't getting the question. So of course you could say I wasn't getting the question because my ego is blocking you, but we'll assume that it was just a lack of understanding.

Yes, that's quite all right.

So I know what I felt there because I went back and I re. Experienced it and it literally. You don't. You don't have context. You don't know you're in the womb.

So. So one second. So this is going to help you a lot.

Right.

Because this is one thing that you do.

Yeah.

Is that you say you don't have context. And when you're describing the hands and the feet and the genitals, you kept saying you have. Now you and I are in a conversation. We've never had this. I'm so grateful for your generosity and your vulnerability, but it's more powerful to say I, you can't control when we say you. It's a safe space.

Oh, I can say I. I'm just looking to teach, like you, as in all humans. But I'm happy to say I if it helps.

Yeah. Well, that's why I asked if the invitation was there for me to help You. Because it's one of the strategies. Yeah, gotcha.

I. I get it. So. So what I felt at the time was that I have no understanding of what's happening yet. So it's a confusing thing to be in the womb.

Yeah.

Because it's all new. And I believe now, like I'm going through a process of forgetting whatever stuff I came in with that starts at the moment of conception and moves forward. So what I do recall is the feeling of something being deeply wrong, a sense of lack of safety, like something's trying to harm you. And in my case, I had.

Yeah.

The doctor went in, I was posterior but not breached. So they flipped me over several times. And I remember I'm like, well, how about you go fuck off? I'll just flip back over. By the way, oppositional defiant disorder does have interesting roots, although that was only part of them for me. I remember that. And then, and then, you know, being born wasn't the orgasmic beautiful experience that.

Yeah.

Is our birthright. But that's why I caught both of my kids because I was compensating, obviously deliver them both. But yeah, I came in and then in my case, it was even. It was a little bit worse because instead of. Then the bonding that normally would happen, hospital procedures at the time were, oh, let's, you know, let's put them in a warming box. They would literally put you under a bright light all by yourself to make sure you are warm, you know, very, very healing.

Right.

And I didn't keep saying.

I keep saying I. Oh, thank you.

Well, so they put me. But they put babies back then, so they put me underneath one.

Yeah.

And so what that. Does that interfered with my maternal connection, actually human connection. And I remember actually saying to myself, like, I'm all alone. And then if I'm going to be alone, then I'll be alone.

Yeah.

And that's where I just kind of severed a lot of my human connection until I healed that. That wound that I got at the hospital. Yeah.

Beautiful. You might have noticed I've written a.

Book on fertility and recommend home birthing or at least kind birthing at a hospital.

Yeah.

Because it's so. For. It's so formational for humans.

It is.

Yeah.

And I'm fortunate. I got to do a lot of work on that so I can talk about it. And it's not, it's not one of those things where you're. Or at least where we'll say my body because I'm doing less teaching, but where, where my body, when I Would first talk about stuff, you'd feel like all this weird, like. Like physical sensations and. And just like. Like a creepiness and like, ew. And this is why people quite often are freaked out by. By kids crying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I used to be one of those people. Like, there's a kid on the airplane. I couldn't stand it. And now I'm like. Like, I'm glad it's not mine. But I have zero triggers in my nervous system over crying babies because I did a lot of that work. So it's interesting how much of my life was shaped by stuff that I had no control over and that I didn't remember.

Yeah.

Amazing. No, it's beautiful. And I really appreciate your generosity because everybody's got their version, right? And oftentimes they happen later. And there would have been things that you've experienced as a kid at 2, at 5, at 8, that would have also been pivotal. Not necessarily traumatic, but they help to define. So I do want you to consider one thing, one constraint, because you use the word that I assert. Feeling into your experience, coming into this world that I could still see energetically in the way you present, which might lend towards a little bit of anxiety. Self consciousness is where you don't necessarily. That baby I'm just feeling into it wouldn't have felt safe. Because you said there's an absence of safety, the term you use. There's something wrong. As a mammal, when we associate with our reality as either it's not safe or something's wrong, we tend to be a little too vigilant.

Right.

Which is part of your intelligence. It's part of your brilliance. It's part of your observation. I have the same thing.

Right.

No parents. I'm by myself. I better fucking pay attention to what's going on in the world, otherwise I'm not going to survive. But it has an undercurrent of what I call vigilance, which is based in a fear energy. So that is just something to look at for whatever it's worth. Is that not your fault? Just the product of the experience that your soul incarnated to have was to maybe look around your way of relating to life in the realm of safety or if something's wrong.

It's interesting when we talk about hypervigilance, definitely it's a trauma response and it can be a biological response. And it's where it gets to be really confusing. A very. A very common aspect of people who've had brain damage from toxic mold like I did, or a brain injury like A traumatic brain injury. Dr. Mark Gordon and I talked about the correlations between PTSD, which creates hypervigilance and trauma, whether it's emotional or even spiritual trauma or physical trauma.

Yeah.

That you get the same response.

Yeah.

In, in my case, certainly I had birth trauma, driving, PTSD and hyper vigilance.

Yeah.

And later in life when I got really seriously poisoned by toxic mold, you get this, this cell danger response.

Yeah.

And it's something when I say I'm talking about you now in the plural. People who've been exposed to toxic mold, we can all find. You walk into a building, it smells musty, and you just lose your mind. Blood flow turns off and all these things. And it's interesting, that's also a trauma response. And it can be a direct poisoning response. If it's poisoning, it takes time. If it's trauma, it's to keep your body safe from the toxins. But it happens very quickly and it's so irritating. So the number of us walking around with something like this going on, that's all tied up in environmental actual safety, with emotional felt sense of safety. Man, that's a can of gluten free spaghetti to unravel.

It is. And the way that then the brain starts to relate to life is that the world, as a generalization, the world is dangerous. And when we're looking through that, as you well know, we slide into sympathetic fight or flight. And it is, you know, like carpet, four horse, chicken, egg. Biology, emotion, whichever, it doesn't really matter. But the fundamental way that we're relating to life is that somehow I'm in potential danger. Whenever the brain perceives a potential threat, it could be an argument with the wife because you came home late from the golf course. It could be the potentiality for mold in a building, in your case, whatever it is, people, when they stand up on a stage, they start to get nervous, they speak very quickly, they're sweating. These are all natural biological responses. It's okay, we're human. But what I like to help mitigate and reconcile are some of them that are just not true anymore.

Right.

So you having a predisposition to being sensitive to mold. Yeah, Totally biological. I've got lots of friends who deal with that. Having a slightly different relationship to life. That the world is dangerous, which a lot of people could relate to. They have social anxieties. And that's not a truth. I mean, we could point out dangers all over the world, but walking around in that state doesn't behoove anybody.

Right.

You could go your Whole life for the next 50, 60 years and not encounter real danger. Might have a couple of disagreements and maybe someone comments, you know, you know, nastily on your social media. But you're going to be okay.

Right.

So to be able to reconcile that, remove that for people, is incredibly liberating. And why I'm so passionate about that stuff and why I align with your work so well is if you don't remove those constraints, you can't access real health anyway.

It's true. You'll go in and get help and you'll sabotage it. Right. I mean, how many times have you seen people do that over and over and over?

Yeah.

I've got so many beautiful clients that I've helped. Professional athletes, thousands of them have got more resources than anybody and they've got incredible talent. But if in here they're living in a world of constraint and fear, then they can't access the potential of our physiology because they're too often in fight or flight. They don't digest properly, as you know. You know, so you could have your own chef, you could have your own trainer. But if psychologically and emotionally you're living in a fundamental state of survival, then at best, what I tell people is you become the best version of your limited self.

That's a great quote. The best version of your limited self.

Thank you.

Yeah.

One of the things I've learned over the course of growing the biohacking movement and just evolving myself, even after six months of electrodes glued to my brain and you're fasting in caves and traveling around the world and all this stuff, I have no idea what the upper limit of my own potential is because I keep finding new stuff.

Yeah.

I'm convinced it's unlimited.

Yeah, absolutely.

I might be wrong.

That's mountain without a top. You know, that's the way I live life.

Yeah.

One of the things that I've been working on for years, actually, is how do you become aware of intuition and then how do you train it to be stronger? I'm pretty sure I know how to do that. How do you train intuition and how do you make it stronger?

How do I. I think, first of all, like anything, we need feedback.

Right.

We have to discover what does and doesn't work for us. I find that the female is more intuitive because they tend to be a little bit. They're more in touch with their feeling state versus men tend to be more associated with thinking. So depending on who we're speaking, are.

You saying that women are not just little men? I'm A little. I've said the same thing. Sometimes people get triggered. If you get triggered, get a therapist. But on average a woman is more intuitive than a man in my experience.

That's precisely what I'm saying. And I'm asserting it's because they're more in tune with their feelings, which is an energetic relationship to life. Whereas men tend to be more in touch with their thoughts, which is very linear. So women tend to be more quantum. Quantum. You're more in tune with the unified field. Whereas a man who tends to be stuck between his ears, it tends to be separated. Very logical sort of right brain where we just want to make everything super practical. Whereas. So for a man, it's taking those 20 inch journey from your head to your heart to feel more. Which, you know, you ask any girlfriend, any wife, any mother, any sister. Invariably their number one complaint when it comes to men is I just, I wish they would show their emotions. I don't know how they feel. And so for a man to become more intuitive, got to get out of your head into your heart and to feel like that guttural brain for women. You know, women struggle a lot because they live in a world where fundamentally one of the biggest contexts that women struggle with is they don't feel safe around men. And rightly so for the last couple of centuries and beyond. So it's sometimes hard for all our boyfriends and husbands out there. You really want to have an incredible wife, you gotta make sure that you're her pillar, that you make her feel safe. Then she'll be able to tap into more intuitive stuff. So for the man, get out of your head. And for the woman, hopefully you're with somebody, it makes you feel secure.

It feels like it's a no win situation. And I've studied a lot of relationship stuff because I did a conscious uncoupling a few years ago.

Yeah.

And, and I'm still, you know, on, on good terms with my former wife.

Great.

And it doesn't have to be bad, but I've studied it and it helps that I'm, I'm dating a relationship coach who's studied, you know, all the different relationship stuff for many years. So it's, you know, it's educational and, and fun and informative.

Yeah.

And there's a dynamic. Okay. A woman says, I just want my man to show his feelings. And if, if a man shows his feelings, he's like, I'm scared to shitless. Then the woman doesn't feel safe and she loses her intuition and doesn't even like the gu because he's not a pillar if you're showing his emotions.

And again, some light on that, Peter? No, it's an interesting conundrum and it can be dysfunctional. It's the way that the energy is shared. Right. We want to evolve sufficiently that we get beyond our own little boy and our own little girl, which is based in fear and survival. So the man, ideally, yes, 90 plus percent of the time he's the rock. He's solid, he's committed, he's disciplined, he has his purpose. All the things that make a man a man. The woman then feels safe. What happens is if for those moments you get some bad news, you have a rough day, your parent passes or something that can trigger a little bit of receding into our fear response. Let's say it's the man, the woman is sufficient enough of a woman. She's not a little girl that she can for that moment hold space for you to feel your vulnerability. Most unfortunately, relationships are based the other way around, where 10% of the time the man is the real man and 90% he's a little boy and 10% of the woman, she's a woman and then 90% she's a little girl. And that's why most relationships tend to be vicious cycles in a downward dysfunctional spiral. And so ultimately everybody has to do the work. They have to become the man, they have to become a woman. But make space. It's really beautiful to make space for your humanity that you can be vulnerable with the right person that actually then becomes more attractive. Superman has his clock. Is it Clark Kent? Yes. Whatever. Batman has his, whatever his archetype of the human is. We need our kryptonite because as human beings it makes us human. And that to me is where the most beautiful connection happens.

I think it's an age old conundrum.

Where.

It'S about finding the right balance and it's all just awareness. Both men and women can grow their awareness of what's happening there. When you map it back to intuition, guys can have intuition. We have a different kind of intuition than women on average. And there are some guys with female energy who probably have female intuition. But I think it's. Some of it has to do with hardware. That's because ovaries have a hundred thousand mitochondria per cell in men. Of all the cells in our body, our brains and our hearts have 15,000 mitochondria per cell. And I think mitochondria are, are frontline mitochondrial sensors or environmental sensors in Fact, I can prove it. So they're the ones with the quantum fingers into reality sensing. So there are parts of a woman's anatomy that literally have more antennas than a guy.

Yeah.

And if there's a connection and it's not traumatized, I think there's a possibility that more information transmits, or at least it transmits more easily.

Yeah.

Sort of like if you had one of those old radios where you had to, like, move the knob around to find a station, it's got a bigger, stronger antenna so it can hear the sounds more clearly. Guys can do. Just takes a little bit more work. And I want you to share your experience and tell me where the points of disagreement or where the holes are in this thinking, because I'm honing and refining my own understanding of this.

Yeah.

So when. When there's intuition happening.

Yeah.

It happens before emotion, at least in my perception. So you have to have a process running where you're watching yourself. You go, oh, interesting. And it'll feel like I had a thought, but it was a really rapid thought. Before you really had all the information, you already knew something. Yeah, that's probably intuition. But if you were to draw like a diagram, fear and negative emotions, they happen very quickly after that. So you might have an intuition that was a signal strength of three and you knew it right away. And then fear, which was a signal strength of nine, that happened a quarter second later.

Yeah.

So if you can catch the first intuition that happened before the fear, it's probably reality. But if it was fear and then something, it was probably a thought or an ego response.

Yeah.

So I have. I look at timing in order to. To determine whether I'm dealing with intuition or ego or emotion.

Yeah.

You ever felt that or sense that? Like. Like poke holes in this?

No. 100%. I mean, that's how we survive.

Right.

Is that we learn from our environment. You as a baby, using your example cord around your neck. Somebody else born to a twin who was the academic, the athlete, they feel their inadequacy. We learn from the relationships we establish with life, with other people, with matter, with space and time. So for me, what you pointed to beautifully when you mentioned emotion, for me, what I'd say prior to emotion, if you're sensitive enough, is feeling. And people might collapse the two. But I actually make a distinction. We're sentient beings.

Right.

In Ayurveda, which is why I love studying Ayurveda, they have such a comprehensive definition of health, which includes the quality of your senses. You know, in the Western World, what is health? You look it up. It's the absence of disease. That's like saying you're wealthy if you're not in debt.

Right.

Or that. One of my, you know, I always joke because I work with so many athletes, like if one of my MLB guys has been struggling to get a hit, I'm like, hey, I've got the best coach for you. And he's like, okay, cool. Who is he? I said, he's this guy, he specializes in striking out. He's like, wait, so why would I want to go and see that guy? That's like going to see a doctor who understands pathology. You're not going to learn health there.

Right.

You might save your life in a, you know, sort of an intervention of an emergency. Great. Anyway, the point being, emotions to me belong to the ego. That's a strategy for survival. The feelings are sentient. So the work to become more intuitive and more vital and more alive as a human being, as far as I'm concerned, is the mitigation, the dissolution of the ego. Because the more ego we quote, unquote, handle, which usually is through awareness and love and acceptance and compassion, then we can rest. When we rest and we feel totally secure within our own skin, we have more feelings than we have emotions, which means we are more in tune with reality. I tell people I have an intimate relationship with reality. I'm very present. I'm a responder, not a reactor. Most people react and you look at the word, I'm reacting. It's something I've done before and that's all ego based. So there's subtle distinction. Hopefully people get something from that. Sentience is more feeling. To your point, we feel that when we're subtly aware enough, but we can only be aware enough if we're not looking out to our environment for perceived threats, which is a fear response. So you have to be comfortable in your own skin, comfortable in your environment, so you can be sufficiently grounded and centered such that you can respond to your environment appropriately. How's that?

I love it. Especially at the very end. Respond to your environment appropriately. In my world, what that means is being non reactive to my environment, unless it's a short term reaction, that's to save my life. So there's actually a tiger jumping at me. I want my body just to get out of the way effortlessly. And if it's not a tiger, I don't want to move at all and just be curious about it. Yeah, and how will I know if it's a tiger or not? My body has to do that because my brain isn't fast enough.

And your history.

Right.

Like, because some people, like I say, if I had a superpower, it's listening. But listening can only occur if you're present. And a lot of people struggle with presence because they're not sufficiently comfortable in their environment because of past trauma. Trauma is a big word. But somebody screamed at them, a teacher made fun of them. Whatever they were bullied in, the whatever everyone goes through, which is a lot, then their ability to be fully here, fully present is compromised. Doesn't make them a bad person. But that's the thing to look at. Then, as you said to respond, to be response able. Which is why I love the word responsibility. I'm responsible for my experience of life. Most brains are still wired to think that I feel the way I feel because of life. Therefore, you are at the effect of life, which is another way of saying you're a victim. Again, doesn't make you a bad person. But you had a bad day because your boss said something. You're in a pissy mood because your wife did something. Now you're giving your power to everything around you. Very human, just inaccurate.

What if I can't be present because everyone else is boring?

You're boring. It's your own creation.

Right? Yeah.

I was trying not to laugh, and you laughed also. And you broke me.

Yeah.

Because the person who you think is boring, and I know you're joking, but the person you think is boring to his best buddy at the bar, he's fascinating, you know? So again we start to see our reality is based entirely on our view of things. That's really powerful. When people, when I help people in relationships, they think their relationship is over there with the person. No, that person occurs in your reality. The relationships with you and how you perceive them. If you think they're a great person, your behaviors, your communication is in response to that. If you think they're an asshole, that's your view of somebody. The relationship's in you, not with them. Then equally, you adjust the way that you relate to them. It's fascinating.

It is truly fascinating. And what I teach, when people are going through 40 years of Zen, a lot of times on the second or third day, they'll kind of have an ego attack as they're gaining more awareness. And suddenly, like, everything is boring. Where do you think boredom comes from? It's an egoic response of the body to make sure you're not paying attention. Yeah, because it doesn't want you to pay attention. Because it thinks not paying attention is safer than paying attention. So you work through it. And then there's another thing that happens, though. Some spiritual paths will teach. Hey, you should, you know, you should feel love for everyone and, like, they're a little bit mushy. But you will come across narcissists, you'll come across sociopaths, especially if you become more successful. You work with celebrities and things like that. One of the reasons they're so paranoid and weird is because they've been targeted over and over and over by people who want their money and their fame and their power, like it's a thing.

Yeah.

That's why they hang out with each other, too, because they know at least that person doesn't want my fame because they're also famous and then they can kind of be themselves. Right. So you see this more and more as people move into different categories of career and visibility. So for everyone listening, okay, part of you wants to be loving and trusting. Part of you wants to be aware of the takers and make sure that you remove them from your reality. So is it aversion to them or is it awareness of them and a choice that you're not going to have a drink with them?