Byron Katie: The Simple Practice That Ends Emotional Suffering

She had red lipstick. She was wearing a beautiful necklace and—

That girl!

She's beautiful.

Bring it!

I want my mama to feel safe, to feel loved, secure, and to simply know she's taken care of.

Is that true?

No.

Ooh, what did you see?

What I was wanting, she already is.

Yeah. So live the advice you want your mother to live.

To be happy in that situation, I need me.

To be okay.

To be okay with where my mom is and to feel the incredible love surrounding her.

It wasn't your mama. We learned that. It was what you were thinking and believing about your mama.

I am terrified. I'm sad and I'm confused and I'm the one overwhelmed. I see that so deeply right now.

All fear belongs on paper and it doesn't mean it's not valid.

What I was believing and thinking upon my mama It was all me.

Our mothers are no more or less than who we believe them to be when we're believing them to be that. She's like all of us. We're doing the best that we can, and we get by with a little help from our friends and family.

Hey everybody, it's Tony Robbins. Welcome to the podcast. Listen, I'm really excited about today because we're joined by one of our dearest friends, one of a woman who is probably one of the more extraordinary human beings that we know, Byron Katie. If you don't know Katie as she's known, then today is gonna be a very special treat. Now, I don't usually do this, but I want to give you a little context because Katie's story is unlike most stories you've ever heard. This is a woman who went through a complete breakdown that turned into the most extraordinary breakthrough you can imagine. She spent close to a decade in depression that was so heavy she could barely leave her own bedroom. And then one morning in 1986, she woke up on the floor of an attic and she just felt like every belief she'd ever known just simply fell away. That was her description. She said, She didn't find a new belief. She just discovered that none of her old beliefs had any truth in them. And from that single moment, she went on to help millions of people in every corner of the world. Now, Sage and I have been friends with Katie and her husband Stephen for more than 20 years now. And like us, Katie believes in the power of questions, the power of inquiry. I know you've heard me talk about so many times that questions are the answer. You want better answers? Ask better questions. And the only way you can hold on to a limiting belief is if you don't question it, you just accept it. And she's developed a 4-question format that she calls The Work, and it's powerful and it's incredibly effective. She's truly a force for good. She's a force for God. She's one of the most enlightened human beings walking the earth. And Sage has studied her work extensively for years, as have I. So for today, we're going to do something really special. Sage is going to do a session with Katie. We're not just going to interview, but she's actually going to do a process with Katie. What's— it's a process that I think is going to really touch your heart because it's dealing with an issue that so many families are navigating today and one that I think you'll be moved by. And as Katie works with Sage and takes her through this process, you might find yourself going through the process as well, and that'd be very powerful. So we're going to do a little different format today. And so without further ado, I'm going to step aside. I want you to meet two of the most brilliant, loving, two of my favorite people on earth, of course, my wife, Sage Robbins, and the one and only Byron Katie.

Here she is, my beautiful friend.

Hello. Hello. What a treat.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just always been that way, hasn't it?

Always been that way, Katie.

Oh, our time together. I cherish it.

Likewise. Beyond. Well, Katie, I— Reflecting on preparing for today, I was remembering when Tony and I first met you and we had invited you to Prague, Katie. And I remember witnessing you demonstrate the work like you'll do with us today. You know what's so extraordinary, Katie, is after that worksheet, I became obsessed and I did worksheet after worksheet after worksheet. Tony has teased me often that we could literally wallpaper our home with all the worksheets that I've done. And it has been freedom for me and it continues to free, it continues to awaken, it continues to release this simple, profound practice of these 4 questions and a turnaround. And I have just been so humbled by this practice, Katie, and it has literally changed and not changed, it doesn't even do it justice, freed me. I mean, I would say liberation, inner liberation and freedom from such a level of density and those constant loops of stress. And by the way, it's not that I can't feel stressed. It's not that I don't feel overwhelmed. It's not that I don't feel sad. And if I, when I do, and as life turns up the volume, I simply put it back on paper.

Yeah, I'd like to say all war belongs on paper. The war with the self, the war with the way we see the world, the war with anyone or anything. Yeah, it belongs on paper. War is war.

Yes. And Katie, when you say war is war, so if people are saying, gosh, but there's war in the world and 'You know, we want world peace.' What would you say to that?

I would say no two people live in the same world. To take care of our world the way you described, when you are heartbroken or angry, upset, confused, we can just move what we're thinking and believing onto that worksheet. And the worksheet, there's six questions on it, and it guides what you're thinking and believing. It puts it in a place where it's separate unto itself. But we can't shift the way we see the world as long as we're believing the way we see the world. And self-inquiry with these Four Questions and Turnarounds, they— oh my goodness, I've gone from an agoraphobic, just terrified human being to moving these 4 questions throughout the world. And what a privilege, what a privilege. It's something I give because I received it. And a lot of words now that who could understand it when the experience speaks for itself.

I agree, Katie. Well, shall we? I did a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet, and I believe that they shared it with you.

Uh-huh. I have it here in front of me. They passed it.

Okay, beautiful.

So, um, number 1 is—

so number 1, uh, in this situation, who saddened you and why? I'm saddened because my mom is terrified and I tend to trigger her.

Okay, and the situation, describe it, the time and place, so you're— you can anchor there in that time and place with your mom.

Yes.

And that she's terrified and that she's, you tend to trigger her.

Yes. My mama currently right now is living in a, as a resident in a memory care facility. She has dementia. And on this particular day, I walked in and she didn't recognize me right away. And she was sitting, having such a lovely time and chatting with other people in community. And when my mama recognized me, it just, my mom got really extremely agitated and she got overwhelmed and all of a sudden just felt scared, but beyond scared, she, it was my presence felt terrifying to her.

Yeah, okay, so, The two of you, are you standing when—

I was standing, yes. My mama was sitting at the table and—

Were other people still at the table?

Other people were still at the table. And when my mom recognized it was me, she just really started to get agitated and started to have more like paranoid kind of behavior. And, um, and I was— hence my feeling that I was triggering my mom. Yeah, I was freaking my mom.

So, um, you terrified your mother in that situation. Sage, anchor there just as you described it to all of us, and I invite everyone to Be there now. You terrified your mother. Is it true? Now, everyone sitting in this, stay anchored the way, um, the way we're witnessing now in that situation. Open your mind, look at your mother. You terrified your mother. Is it true?

Yes.

Now notice, Sage, how you react when you think the thought in that situation.

Yes.

You react when you think the thought. What happens?

My heart started to pound. I felt internal constriction. Uh, I was feeling, I was feeling terrified if I think about it now. Um, I, I wasn't present with my mom. Uh, I was in my head, uh, in my thoughts racing, seeing my mama And not being awake and aware to my own constriction or my own tension, which this story, my face told that story.

Yeah. And in that reaction, What images— and all of you, this takes real stillness to anchor there, and where Sage was describing— yes, what images appeared in that situation of the past and of the future that were running in your head?

Uh, I I went future-paced of, you know, them needing to possibly give my mama a shot to calm her down. And I referenced those moments from the past as well. I also recognized moments in time before my mom went into memory care where my mama was in a similar acute state, and all of us, or myself, trying to navigate that with grace and seeing all those images of my mom crying so hysterically and being, or being agitated and upset. Yeah.

Yeah. So those images of the past and the images of the future.

Yes.

Even that nanosecond future that was going on in you, it has to be the words with the images. When you're thinking, when you're experiencing that and believing your mother is terrified.

Yes. I recognize that deeply now, and I see so obviously that I was terrified. It was me, um, and I was feeling overwhelmed. And, um, and rather than naturally being present with my mom, uh, I was in reaction in my own mind, uh, and not present with her.

Um, the images of that, that nanosecond future running in your head— there's your mother, and then there's the ego offering up What she's going to do in the next moment, and the next moment, and the next moment.

Yes.

You described, you know, and so what is the cause of your fear? Your mother? Look at her. They're not holding her down, they're not trying to— just look at her, look at you, look at her just the way she is, acting out whatever it is in reality, without the thought, she's terrified.

Yeah, my mama is just being my beautiful mama and being her passionate, dynamic self.

And who does that remind you of? Your dynamic, passionate self. Without the coaching. We've heard like mother, like daughter. This is just in the fire here. Yeah, how beautiful. So, my mom is terrified. Turned around, my mom is— How would you replace terrified when you find an opposite? When you look— And all of you, you have to, in this situation, look into your mother's face, no matter how she's reacting. Just keep it real. And she's terrified, turn around, she is.

My mom was expressing. My mom was.

Let's drop the was and go to my mom is. Stay present. Stay present.

My mom is expressing. My mom is Dynamic and beautiful. And she's— my mom is a force of nature. My mom is such love.

What's the opposite of terrified? Let's just try not terrified. Not everything, everything you, everything you just—

yes.

Yes, but just— She's terrified, she is.

My mom is not terrified.

So, just try it on. It doesn't mean it's not— just try it on. She's not terrified. Now, look at her with that viewpoint, without making nice or anything, just maybe you see something else. She is not terrified.

Yeah, I see my mom accurately. I see my mama's face. She was just getting up and pushing her little rocker or her little walker. And she— I'm even noticing that my mom was smiling. She was smiling and I missed that.

There she is. There she is.

Yeah, she said, "What are you doing, Bonnie Pearl?" And what were you doing? Being terrified. Busy being terrified.

And believing she's terrified, you may have When you tried to do anything you could to support her and watch you, she is terrified, turned around, she is—

My mom was present.

Yeah, present.

Present.

She got up, she left her fellows.

She did.

And you, as I recall, she was involved there. She was involved and she said, "What are you doing here?" So, now that you are more present than we're able to be when we're terrified, that our mother is terrified, "What are you doing there?" Now just silence and silence, answer her question. Honestly, which is where you're left when you're not believing, she's terrified.

Uh, I came to see you, Mom.

Yeah.

And, uh, wanted to come and say hello and to hold your hand, uh, and to be with you.

Yeah, that's the answer. And maybe she'll hold your hand, maybe she won't. She's got a little, what, dementia running?

Yes.

She recognized you?

She did. I see that.

Yeah, so just, let's just be with that. And it's good to know the people we love, but when we are frightened, terrified, or, oh my, the ego takes us over and it's It's not right, not wrong, just how it is until we wake up to the reality of life just the way you're doing.

I see it completely differently in this moment. I actually see, like I said, I see my mom's joy and her natural way of being. And I missed that. I missed that.

I—

And there she is.

Yeah.

So she was actually joyful.

My mom had a smile.

As you look at it, a smile. Yes.

Yeah.

Real, real— there she is. So, um, you want your mama in that situation— should we move there to number 2?

Yes, please.

You want your mama to feel loved, safe, and secure. Is it true? Stay anchored there. Look at the way you approached her when you were fearful. Yes. In that situation, you wanted your mama to feel loved, safe, and secure. Is it true?

No.

Oh my, my.

No.

When I'm—

So how do you react when you believe the thought, you want your mama to feel loved, safe, and secure, and You're terrified, in your word, seeing her the way you were seeing then, staying anchored there. How do you react when you think the thought, "I want my mama to feel loved, safe, and secure"?

I was quick in my— I was reactive. I wasn't present with my mom. I was feeling constricted and feeling tight.

And how did you treat your mother when you were feeling that way? Notice, just witness. You want her to feel safe, loved, and secure, and you're terrified.

I took a step back. I took a step back rather than joining my mom and connecting with my mom.

Were you thinking that that would make her safer or Or did you feel like threatened, that she was threatened and it was your fault? I mean, I'm just— Ah. Just look around. I want her to feel safe, loved, and secure, and you're seeing her as terrified. How do you react? How do you treat her? How do you treat yourself in that situation? Just witness it.

I recognize I was, like I said, I stepped back away from my mom. I started talking at my mom rather than with my mom. I was avoiding, I was avoiding, I was avoiding my mom. I didn't sit down to connect with her at the table. I was standing up and away from her. And I can see now how that would make her feel unsafe and not feel secure or my loved, or that she's loved by me. 'Cause I was more, I was more shifty. I was shifty in my not really knowing what to do, if I'm honest.

Yeah.

Yes. Thank you.

Now, now be back on you. You and your mother are standing there and you want her to feel loved, safe, and secure. Who would you be without the thought, "I want my mama to feel loved, safe, and secure"? Who would you do without putting a want on her? You come to see your mother, not to change your mother. And, you know, we as loving caretakers, yes, there's so much we can be asleep to sometimes.

Yes.

And our reaction is, You're believing she's terrified and you want her to feel safe, secure, and to simply know that she is taken care of. Yes. Now just be with your mother. She doesn't even have to know that you care or don't care. Be with your mama.

I see that so deeply right now.

Um, just the way she is. Yeah, the thought, I want her to feel loved, it implies that she's not already.

True.

And she's saying that she is, but we, we don't know when we're terrified ourselves.

True. I, I see my mama pushing her stroller Saying to me, what are you doing? Are you gonna come me? Are you gonna come with me?

We'll answer her question. Just inside of you, just hear her questions. Are you gonna— you know, you want her to feel safe and secure. She's saying, are you coming?

Yes, Mom.

What a trip. Never too late. Just go where your momma goes.

Just go where my momma goes.

Without the thought you want her to. Jeez. Look how well she's doing. She can still walk.

She can still walk.

And she knows to get her walker.

Yes. True.

And she knows who you are. And she's obviously not opposed to that. She says, follow me. Come with me.

She's actually very clear. She's actually very clear and moving along, you know, just moving along. She was—

and she has friends.

Yes, community, community. And she was really enjoying— she was having ice cream when I walked up. And was talking to the lady sitting next to her, really enjoying her company.

Now, does she look safe to you? I mean, out of her— just watching her, watching her experience, does— I mean, she's moving right through, right through, right through life there.

Very. Incredibly safe.

And loved. You're there, so she is.

Yes.

And they didn't kick her out of the— away from the table. She opted to leave to be with her daughter.

And, and she also—

she is waiting for you. You coming?

True, true. And I, and I see, Katie, how you know, she's saying hello and to passerbys. And she has a just beautiful— she has a beautiful, uh, caregiver that was with her at the time that was rubbing her back and right with her and secure and loved by you for sure.

You know, it's as though some of us are taught to be— like, being upset and concerned is love. Yes. But there's— but it's— I can't do love. It's like you, Sage, like what we're witnessing, it's like you are that. Presence, and you're visiting your mom, not the mom of your— that you fear her to be.

Yes. I also recognized she was wearing— she had red lipstick, and she was wearing a beautiful necklace. And that girl, she's beautiful.

Bring it! Wow. Wow!

It's beautiful.

Wow.

You know, it's sitting in self-inquiry with you, it's as though we all get to meet your mother with you at the same time. And that's a privilege.

Thank you.

All right, number 2. In that situation, what do you want your mother to think, say, feel, or do?

Um, uh, I want— yes, I want my mama to feel safe, to feel loved, secure, and to simply know she's taken care of.

Okay. Is that true? No. Oh, what did you see?

What I see is what I was wanting, she already is.

Yeah, yeah, no need, no need for you to—

No.

Wow. So you got what you wanted just sitting in your chair now. That's very comforting. Yes. You know, from here as I sit in my chair with you.

That's beautiful. And just noticing, noticing all that I missed, all that I missed when I believed she was terrified and believing that I wanted her to feel safe and secure and not connecting to the truth that my mama is safe and secure. In that moment, in that situation.

So now, just experiencing, just experience yourself there now when she says, "Are you coming?" And I'll read what you wrote for 2.

Okay.

And just live it. I want me to feel loved. By my mama, safe with my mama and secure. And to simply know that she is taken care of. And to simply know that I am taking care of, taken care of. So you can have that in common. Truth. So take that trip, honey. Just, are you coming? Just that yes of yours. Look how your mother is not gonna fall apart. Look at her. Secure and capable.

Capable.

And that comes from when you know you're being taken care of. She's— yes.

I see that. I, I really— I see my beautiful mama just walking down that hallway with her walker and saying hello to the people, and she's perfectly safe and loved and secure due to you and Tony and Mary, people that love her and have made that possible for her to live in a safe community and the care.

That's full on. Now all we need to do is catch up with your mama.

Hence why I'm here.

You can, yeah, me too. Okay, so to be happy, your mama needs to take her medication so she won't be frightened and agitated. Your mama needs to take her medication, and that's why it's important. It keeps her— so she won't be frightened or agitated.

Yes.

Now look at your mama. She needs to take her medication in that situation. Is it true?

No, she doesn't. No, she's perfectly okay. And my mama is living her life and is actually very, um, Very natural and very secure.

And everything you wanted.

Everything I wanted in that moment. Yeah. Yes, everything I wanted. And I see how much I've missed in that situation.

Mm-hmm. So My mama needs to take her medication. My mama— turn around— my mama doesn't need to take her medication in that situation. They have it all timed.

Yes.

They're prescribed. She's in that environment. They— that's, that's it.

That's it. My mama doesn't need to take her medication.

Whether they do it on time or not, You're there to check it all out.

Yes, yes, I see that. I really see that.

Good on you, honey. Do you see another turnaround to be happy?

I need, um, I need, uh I need me to take my medication.

Yeah, I need me to take my medication as prescribed by a doctor that you checked out well.

I need me to take my medication so I won't be so frightened and agitated.

Now you can go to places where maybe Tony or Mary or something say, you know, your cough is getting worse. Hey, you know, here's a cough drop, or take your medication. And you go, that's really funny, I'm okay. So live the advice you want your mother to live. At least be open to it. Yes. And, and Sage, you need more rest, you know, just If someone should say, then, I mean, look how you run. They could be right if they ever suggest that.

Yes.

To give ourselves what we want to give to our mom, to your mama, and to the people in your life.

Mm-hmm.

And I also see, Katie, another turnaround is the medication can be this work?

The shift in— I'll just speak for myself because I hear it so often anyway from others— but the shift in my physical at 83, the shift in my physical is radical. And there's no promise there, but when the mind is free, the body is The mind becomes less— becomes wiser.

Yeah, medicine.

Medicine. And the other way is, you know, what you wrote, and it's stressful.

Yes.

And sometimes we see that as love. I'm just worried about my mama, you know, and like that's love.

Yes.

And we can worry about them. But knowing you, as I do, you take care of it really well. You know your mama. Yes. You know her needs. That's maximum. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Professional, educated professional advice to ponder, and make the wisest decisions that you can. To be happy, you need your mother to feel the incredible love surrounding her. Is it true?

I know it sounds absurd now. No, it's not true.

No, they, they want her back at the table, and they're— and her daughter's there to visit her, and And how do you react? What happens to you when you think the thought? You want her to feel the incredible love surrounding her, and you're there to surround her with love even though you're— what was the word— terrified.

Yes. Yeah, well, what I recognize is I'm not, I'm not loving. In that moment. I'm, I'm busy being terrified. I'm busy having my shoulds and shouldn'ts from my mama, uh, rather than being intimately connected to my mom, rather than surrounding her, uh, so, you know, uh, with love, um, and that natural way of being.

Yeah, the natural way, because you surround her with the way in those situations, like all of us, the way we think it's supposed to look and what we've what the words are. But here you are, present, present. Every— I haven't heard one thing as far as your action that was not just loving and incredible love.

And, and I see so deeply, Katie, how she is utterly okay with— she— when I walked in, I My mama was 100% utterly okay with where she is.

And— You know, honey, just to interrupt for a moment. Yes. You might just go visit her and just sit in a place there where you can just see your mom's life. Just check in with her life with that beautiful open mind of yours.

Yes.

And watch how she deals with everything, and watch, you know, to witness that amazing mother of yours. You know, like all of us, she's like all of us, we're doing the best that we can, and we get by with a little help from our friends and family. And caretakers. So let's see if you live this, Turner. I want me to feel the incredible love surrounding my mother in that situation. So I just—

That's true.

Look at her. She's on fire. She's got friends. She can get up. She recognizes you. She knows her walker. She wants to know if you're coming. They're assisting her. Beautiful. Everything you wanted for her under those circumstances.

My mama's—

I see how perfectly okay she is when you consider what she's going through, which we have no idea. Yes, she's, she's making the— she's She's got this in that situation.

She truly does.

You can know with your own eyes.

She's incredibly loved and cared for.

It's back there on your wants. You want her to to feel loved, safe, and secure. She's even in, you know, this keeps coming to me, but it's so sweet. She recognizes you and she says, "Are you coming?" Oh, it's extraordinary. That laughter of yours, you know, I see that happening easily. You go, "Yeah, Mom. Yes, Mom." Right behind you. I love you. Marvel at you. You've got great digs here.

True.

Oh my. Okay, sweetie. Let's look at, um, let's look at, to be happy in that situation, I need me to be, and read for Uh, to be happy in that situation, I need me to be okay, to be okay with where my mom is. Yes.

Um, and to feel the incredible love surrounding her.

It's never too late, and here you are.

That's much more true. That's much more true. It's beautiful.

Oh honey, you are beautiful.

Thank you.

I love taking this trip with you, experiencing it with you. I know that I am. I'm right in there with your mother. I can see the images. I think we all can see the images of you with her. And I can see her so clearly. I've never met her. I can see her on her walk. I can see she's just doing well.

Yes.

I haven't heard one thing from you, legitimate, a legitimate reason to believe she's not doing well, other than she has dementia. And she's doing well in that situation.

True.

I want your mama to do well too. She sets a great example for people who love her. True.

She really has.

Honey, let's look at 5.

Okay.

And we did terrified. Your mother is sad. So look closely, be there now. Your mother is sad. Is it true? Hmm.

No, in that situation my mama was not sad.

She's in pain in that situation. Is it true? Um, can you really know that it's true she's in pain? Look closely.

In that situation, in that moment, I can't really know that it's true that my mom is in pain. I'm future pacing or past tense or future pacing images, but in that moment, Katie, no, no, no, really.

We have the mother of the past and future, but it's just fascinating to meet her mother in any time and place when we are present with them. By some grace, she's still alive. You still have her. But those of you that have lost your parents, it's never too late. They live in you just the way we see that that in this situation, um, your mother lived in you, the mother as you believed her to be. So she is overwhelmed. Is it true in that situation?

No, my mom is not overwhelmed in that situation.

She's in a state of misunderstanding. She's in a— she's in this state. She is in a state that doesn't understand how loved she truly is.

It sounds absurd right now as you read it. It really sounds absurd as I'm hearing it back.

Yeah. In that situation, I am terrified, sad. And read number 5, where you have my mama, put you on it. And then just track it to see what is valid, and what is kind of valid, and what is not valid, as you notice, as you read it.

In that situation, I'm terrified.

And what was the cause of your, your terror? It wasn't your mama, we learned that. It was what you were thinking and believing about your mama.

It's what I was believing, that my mom was terrified. I am terrified, and I'm sad, and I'm confused. And I'm the one overwhelmed and in pain. And in this state, I don't— I don't understand how loved I am.

By her.

By her. What on earth?

She saw you, she got up. She said, "Are you coming?" And yeah. How loved I truly am.

How loved I truly am.

She had options there. She could pretend dementia. Yes. In that situation, she was not alert.

True.

She really didn't want to see you. She could pretend.

True.

No, she, she, she saw you. She got up. She invited you. Are you coming?

She did.

Okay, sweetie, let's look at 6. And number 6, what is it you don't ever want to experience in that situation again?

Uh, I don't ever want my mama to feel terrified, sad, confused, overwhelmed, in pain, uh, and in this state, not understanding how truly loved she is.

So, she has dementia. She doesn't understand how truly loved she is. Look at her. You know, when we really love someone, we most of the time maybe take them for granted. Yes. And she recognized you.

She did. Very much so.

And she got up from the table. She invited you to follow her.

She did. Are you coming?

Mm-hmm. Are you coming?

What are you doing? Are you coming?

Oh, honey. She wants to know how you're doing. Did you say, "I'm terrified, Mom"? Terrifying, Mama.

I didn't, but I'm sure my face was— this was probably telling the story.

Yeah. Oh honey, so I'm willing to— on number 6, we turn it around. Number 6 is different. I'm willing to, in that situation, when I think about it again, or my next trip there, anytime I'm worried about her, yeah, willing to I'm willing to, uh, feel like, feel like my presence is hurting her.

And I look forward to, and I look forward to, uh, feeling like my presence is hurting her, terrifying her.

Did she look terrified at seeing you? It's important. Look back. When she looked at you, did she look terrified?

No, Katie, no. Surprised, uh, but in that situation, no. My mama was not terrified. Yeah, it's crazy how much we can miss.

And it's crazy, all of the, you know, the toll it takes on us physically. Yes, emotionally, mentally. You know, fear, all fear belongs on paper. Yes, so we can move it from our head And it doesn't mean it's not valid to authentically move it from our head to that Judge Your Neighbor worksheet.

Yes.

And then to remember you, when we're sitting in that worksheet, what patience and authenticity and integrity look like.

Hmm.

And stillness, your ability to get still and imagine yourself there now and look at the cause of your fear or discontent, whatever it was. In this case, terrified. Yeah.

It's what I was believing and thinking upon my mama in that situation. Believing my mama was terrified, and I really see, going through this with you right now, it was all me.

Yeah, yeah. Your mother— our mothers are no more or less than who we believe them to be when we're believing them to be that. Honey, I love our time together.

Me too.

I love your forthcomingness, your courage to just It's like taking off all your clothes in front of the world and just— the thing we hide is, you know, what we're thinking and believing, and here it is. And it creates the opposite, it invites intimacy, kind of in some intimacy that so many of us long for.

Self-love.

Self-love. Thank you, Mama.

Thank you, Mama. Thank you, Katie.

Yeah, it's just so sweet to sit with you, Sage. You know, the The work takes a very open mind, the work meaning self-inquiry, takes a very open mind. And you don't just model that, you show real deal how. It's just, again, like taking off all your clothes and just bearing your soul.

It's freeing, it's freeing to sit with you and to really reflect and to notice what I missed. And I missed so much believing that thought and putting all of my, as you call them, stickies. I had so many stickies over my mama that day, in that moment, in that situation.

And those stickies are the images of past, future, past, future. They're about anything other than now. And that's asleepness. And waking up to reality is simple as you have shown us to be. You know, it's a lot of worksheets, it's a practice in stillness until we have it in our walking, present, living life, we're just awake as you, like you were, like waking up in these questions and turnarounds. It's a way of life. It's a way of living with our mothers and the people we love in the world.

My mama has so beautifully brought me back to the active practice, Katie, of, well, the privilege of sitting with you right now. If it wasn't for my mama, we wouldn't be sharing this moment.

Oh, thank you, mama.

Thanks, Mama. I really am. I'm so grateful.

She's amazing.

Truly, truly, Katie. And I'm so grateful to be able to not only have this conversation, but to sit in the work with you, Katie. And because it's a continual unraveling, I really, as I sit with my mama in this moment, I'm excited for the next time that I get to be with my mom.

Isn't it exciting? I've had that thought several times. I'd love to see you with your mom following.

Me too.

Yeah, these worksheets wake us up. Life repeats itself and we see it differently every time. And it becomes just like an extraordinary— just in awe of just looking at the soap bubbles on a dish. Or coffee cup as you're washing it. It's just like this world just becomes just bright and clear. Yeah. Thank you, sweetie.

Thank you, Katie. Thank you, Katie.

And thanks to both you and Tony and Mary, all the peers, for inviting me in. That's a privilege, and love you guys.

I love you as well, Katie. And for those of you who feel spoken to and wanna find Katie and the work, you can go to thework.com, and you can download a simple Judge Your Neighbor worksheet like what we walked through today. And Katie, you continue to do the work, I believe it's a couple times a week?

That's every Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, 9 o'clock Pacific time. I just, I just love that adventure so much. Well, what a privilege we hold, honey.

It's been a gift, Katie. And you have, uh, well, another out in the world who will continue to be, uh, an ambassador for, uh, the gift and the freedom that comes when we sit with a willingness with ourselves and to deeply inquire. And I am eternally grateful, Katie. Your life, your presence, the work has blessed me beyond words that I have to convey. And I love you from the deepest part of my being. And thank you.

Mwah!

Thank you.

Thank you, dears.

Thank you for your time. Thank you. Love to you, Katie.

Well, I hope you were as moved by that as we are. I want to thank my wife for her absolute vulnerability. I know that it must have touched you as it touches all of us. And I think you can see the power of this work. And I hope that you'll realize that just with the simple 4 questions, you can start to free yourself from any anything that in the past has made you suffer. And to remember that some of the principles that she's shared, that suffering only exists in the past or the future, not in this moment. So those are just a few to remind you of, and I hope this is an experience that deeply touched your heart and soul. And I hope you'll check out some of Katie's work. She's written many books: Loving What Is, A Thousand Names for Joy, I Need Your Love, Is That True?, and A Mind at Home with with itself. You can also get more information by going to her website, thework.com. Thank you for joining us once again for the Tony Robbins Podcast, sending you love and blessings to you and all those you love.