Ditching Both Parties to Run for Governor

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This week on the Andrew Yang Podcast.

Only 19% of Tennesseans identify as Democrats. 37% identify as Republicans, but 44% identify as nonpartisans and independents now. So we have the majority. You know, just the tiniest investment in this campaign helps us to go so far. And I think that we make the case for the, the best, the best case study for the New Southern Strategy. And if Tennessee falls, a lot of other states are going to fall with us. And I think that this is the best thing that anybody can invest in this year for the future of the country.

It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast independent candidate for governor of the great state of Tennessee, PhD, international entrepreneur, mom of 4, I want to say, an all-around superstar, Lauren Pinkston. Welcome, Lauren.

Thank you, Andrew. This is a joy to be with you today.

Yes, well, you and I had a chance to meet a couple of months ago, and it's a lot of fun unpacking your story. So tell people about yourself and how the heck you came to be candidate for governor. Right now, if people can see you, you're actually in the bowels of a public library in rural Tennessee because you're on the campaign trail.

That's right, 26 counties in the last 2 weeks. We are busy meeting as many people as possible. And so it's been such a joy to cross the state and to hear from people who are so fed up. With, with politics on both sides. And I think Tennessee gets overlooked a lot as a deeply red state, but we are a purple state that has had a supermajority for the last 10 years. So we can get into the weeds on, on that. But when I looked at the candidates for governor this year, it just felt so unserious and felt that the things that have been shifting with a supermajority in our state over the last decade were things that I was not okay with going forward. And so, as you said, I'm a mom of 4. My kids are 16 down to 4 years old, and I love this state. I grew up in a rural part of West Tennessee, 7 generations back here in the state. And I don't recognize the state that I'm living in right now because we've always had things to be so proud of, very progressive in some of our policies and in a lot of the things that have taken us through history. So let's make sure we talk about the cool things that Tennessee has done in history because that's baked into our DNA here in the state. And people just haven't had anyone to vote for. And so that's why we were dead last in voter turnout in the last midterm election. Uh, people are looking for somebody to vote for instead of against, and I wanted to make sure they had that option.

Wow. Well, thank you for running, and thank you for campaigning, uh, so diligently and broadly by traveling around the state. So check it out, I might be a fairly normal, uh, you know, East Coaster in the sense that I have been to Nashville.

There's a lot more to Tennessee than Nashville, but it is, uh, it is what attracts so many people here, and it is— it's a magical— it's a magical place for sure.

Yes. So the way that an outsider like me might see Tennessee is similar to some other parts of the country where you have a thriving metropolis, um, that is, I think, uh, blue, right? It's one of those kind of bluish dots.

It tries to be. Yeah, voter turnout's pretty low, but yes, it's a blue dot for sure.

Yeah, yeah, it's a blue dot. And then it's surrounded by what people presume to be Republicans and conservatives in rural areas. But I know that that's a real oversimplification. We just had on the podcast some people that you've met, Todd Achilles, who's running in Idaho as an independent, Brian Bangs, who's running for Senate in South Dakota as an independent. And so if you look at a map, all you see is boom, like red blotch. Right?

Right.

And then they're like, no, no, you like talk to actual people. In real life, if there's anything that unifies them, is that they're ticked off at the status quo, the establishment, politics as usual.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's what I'm hearing across the state as well. You know, people are, are looking for an off-ramp to the extremism. And so if you're a red dot in Tennessee, you're pretty well disaffected by what has happened in DC over the last 2 years, if not the last 10. And if you are a blue dot in Tennessee, you're, you're frustrated as well, because the— I think both parties are going through realignment that no one really knows where they're landing. The elections in New York have really thrown off the conversation around the Democratic movement in Tennessee. And in Tennessee specifically, our state party just got hit with a million-dollar lawsuit last week by a former treasurer. So they don't have any money. That party is crumbling. On the right, we have an assumption of a red, you know, stronghold. But our party structure in Tennessee is so weak because we're one of 7 states that still has semi-open primaries. And so the party structure is just not there. And some things that have been done by the state GOP have really turned off a lot of elected officials across the state. So yeah, consistently what I hear is, I'm not voting for her, talking about the Republican front-runner, Marsha Blackburn, and I'm not voting for a Democrat. And so that's— people are looking for, for something different.

That is the summary. I'm going to share a Tennessee story I do have, which is a former super volunteer, an all-around awesome human, Blair Walsingham. Ran for Congress in Tennessee. Do you know?

I remember her. I actually met her in Houston when there was a Forward kickoff there. But yeah, I remember her race.

Yes. So check it out. She runs— it was a red district, as most of Tennessee is. And so she became the Democratic nominee for that congressional seat. And so she reached out to the state party and said, hey, I'm your nominee for Tennessee's 1st District. Do you have anything for me? Maybe you send me a little bit of money. And then the state party said, no, no, no, you send us money.

Exactly.

Blair was like, I said, you buddy, I don't have any money. I'm just like a military veteran and mom. What money am I going to send you? And so that's the way the state party functions is like they're not actually trying to compete or tend or, you know, do anything. They're just like a financial operation. It sounds like gotten hit with a lawsuit over some kind of bad behavior.

Yeah, it's been really sad. And, you know, people always want to protect their space, and I'm not here to attack Democrats at any level, but I, I think what people don't understand, especially voters, is that they keep being promised this blue wave that's coming, and it is not coming. It's not coming this year in an executive race. And so I have a dear friend running for Congress as a Democrat, and he's working really hard, but with our redistricting, you know, it's, it's just put an even greater challenge on, on him to help people understand that who he is as a person is not what you hear on Fox News all day long. And, and there's just too great of a hurdle to, to jump through in, in politics where it is right now.

Yeah, so the Democratic Party brand is underwater in the majority of the country, and Jon Tester, who's a senator in Montana, said to Seth Bodnar, who was looking at the race, said the Democratic brand is poison in Montana. It's poison, I'm sure, in South Dakota. I'm sure in Idaho.

Yeah.

Most parts of Tennessee. Yeah. And so an independent movement is needed, um, to provide some kind of true, uh, alternative and competitiveness. Uh, and so it's something that Americans feel And the question is, how do you get that alternative? And the answer is people like you stepping up and running.

Yeah, I mean, it's exciting. I've been, you know, of course, I followed your race closely in 2020 and have been following and been involved with the Forward Party since it started. I sat on the leadership circle when, when it was first getting started. But I have just watched people dancing around the issue, kind of hoping that their parties would come back to what they are. But the Republican Party as we know it is dead. And I think that the Democratic Party is too. And so as this national realignment is going through whatever it's going through, I feel that the Democrats are going to move more towards that democratic socialist stance and a working party stance, kind of, you know, again, upholding the working party movement that the Democratic Party used to be. And I see a lot of Democrats that were maybe your yellow dog Democrats starting to look more like your traditional Republicans. And then I'm not sure where the MAGA voters are going to fall out, but I do think that there's a realignment going on. But until we figure out what that is, this This idea of independence and intellectual independence and physical independence and party independence, there's nothing more American than that. And so it's fun that it's falling on the 250th anniversary of the, you know, of the United States. And that's what I tell people all the time. Independence never goes out of style.

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I don't, I don't know, my law, my law classes were my hardest in international development, but, uh, props to you.

Yeah, so, um, but I'd love for you to give people a sense of your arc because it's remarkable. It's highly unusual. It's very admirable. I mean, you have a PhD in international development as well as a master's in another discipline and spent some time abroad doing community development work, trying to help the globally impoverished.

Yeah. Yeah. So I grew up in, like I said earlier, in a rural community in West Tennessee, grew up in a very conservative, very faith-oriented family and community. I went to a private Christian college for undergrad where I where I met my husband. We moved to Memphis, Tennessee, where he was doing his degree in medicine. So he's a family practice doctor. We moved to South Carolina for his residency, and then we moved to Laos and lived in Southeast Asia for 5 years. And in between our 5 years there, we actually moved to Uganda and lived in East Africa, adopted internationally. My first 3 kids were born on 3 continents. And so we've— the 4th one was born in our town in Tennessee where we live now. I said, Gavin, should we go to Europe for this one? Like, is he going to feel like he has to share a continent with his sister? We have— yeah, we've had this incredible experience abroad. I did have a seat at the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime while I was earning my PhD. I've worked on refugee issues. Most of my work has been in the counter-human trafficking field and in opening more economic opportunities for survivors of complex trauma. And so most of my research has been focused on what a healing center workplace looks like and how we make sure that more people have dignified work to do. But moving back to Tennessee before COVID hit was it was a challenge. I thought, how am I going to move back to the place that raised me? I'm so, you know, my whole world has been opened up. And then I realized that some of the things that really made me who I am and the people that raised me, it became this, it just became this coming home moment that I felt so, I felt such a burden to my home state and to the people who had poured so much into me my whole life. And I saw them kind of co-opted in this political environment that didn't make So I, I've just moved from one dark field to another. I'm moving into politics now. In some ways, I've been training for this my whole life, and it feels good to represent the goodness of people in our state because so many of them have just felt left behind. They've felt politically homeless, and now they're finally having a voice.

Wow. I just got chills, Lauren. Well, and what you described about your upbringing, so check it out. I think that— so first, I'm of the belief, it sounds like you may be too, pretty, pretty sure you are, that people are good. Americans are good. America consists of good people. And also that faith communities are among some of the best at looking out for each other and coming together when someone's in need. And there's like this real beauty to that. And yet some of those values have become politicized and weaponized in particular ways, and it's like super sad. Uh, and, and like, you know, uh, one of the most impactful books I've ever read was, uh, by my, my friend Jonathan Haidt, uh, The Righteous Mind: How Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion. Um, and it really— I was like, oh my gosh, like, I mean, that, that book actually has guided my career ever since because I think he's right. I mean, you know, you have like good people that are somehow pitted against each other. And when you came back from the developing world, so there's this notion, it's like, hey, America's got its act together and then these other countries are developing and poor. So like, let's go help them. And then you realize like, wait a minute, we actually have a lot of need and deprivation and scarcity and suffering here. And there's a lot of work to be done.

That's right. And Jonathan Haidt is just brilliant. I'm such a fan of his work. You know, if there's anything that radicalized me, it was living in a communist country in 2016, watching that election take place in my own village office where people were already told who to vote for because that decision had already been made for them by the Communist Party of the country. And then we flew to Uganda and we were actually in-country for the election of Museveni, who had been handpicked by the United the United States decades ago, and we barely made it out of the country 3 days before the election because he had shut down all of the roads to the airport, the internet was shut down, and his political opponents were under house arrest. And I thought, this is interesting, and then moved to the United States to run my daughter's immigration documents. And we were here for the fall election of 2016. And I just— watching 3 elections up close where even in a country that had been the beacon of democracy to the world, We were, we were in a place where most people felt like they were disappointed with the two options that were handed to them. And so in a conservative state where people were very uncomfortable voting for Hillary Clinton, they weren't comfortable voting for Donald Trump either. And I, and I think what has been lost is the, the pain that so many conservatives felt and have felt for the last decade because they're calling me under 80% of my calls are coming from Republicans right now and they are telling me that they felt physically sick and had tears in their eyes voting for our current president. And if you talk to a Democrat today, they are so angry with what has happened, um, and they place all the blame on Republican voters, but they have missed the wrestle that Republican voters have been in.

Oh no, you know what else they missed in, in this drama, Lauren? When you said it's like, hey, you have to vote for this person and there's no choice, you know what popped in my mind? Was Joe Biden stifling any competitive primary in '24.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I've been—

yes.

And for consistency here, I have spoken to— I have spoken to Christians for the last decade about the dangers of this administration. And in 2024, I said that Joe Biden was the most selfish American in the country at the time because he was not allowing his party to put someone forward. And so I— yeah, I— at least I'm consistent.

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she did the best she could with the time that she was given.

Yeah, ish. But then the Democratic Party failed again when Joe Biden did step aside, uh, and gave it to Kamala. And then they could have had a process. You could have had Gavin or Andy Beshear or Josh Shapiro or Wes Moore, like any of a host of people who could have run. And just the Democratic Party failed colossally. And some of the people that are loudest now were also the loudest defenders of Joe Biden prior to all of this, were the loudest attackers of Dean Phillips, who actually ran against Joe, like trying to give us all a primary. And they maligned him, they shivved him, they ended his political career. They primaried him, which is the worst thing you can do in today's party politics. And I was standing with Dean Phillips in New Hampshire and South Carolina watching it all happen.

You saw it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So when you talk about— so one, Republican voters who have moral values deeply uncomfortable running for— sorry, voting for Trump. And that's understated. The other thing that's understated is the Democratic Party has failed not once but twice in terms of providing any kind of quality alternative to Trump. And, you know, it's like— and by the way, this is one reason why the Democratic Party brand is so deep underwater. And now you're seeing this schism from within the Democratic Party manifest in some of the Democratic Socialist candidates winning, albeit in very, very deep blue areas. And this is one of the things that's like, you know, people talk about. It's like, look, are you trying to legislate? Because you're trying to legislate, then you probably need to get a majority. And if you want a majority, then you're going to need folks like Pat Ryan, who's a military veteran running in, you know, uh, like a purple district to win. And if he started, uh, doing the DSA thing, it'd probably hurt him, right?

Right.

But man, I mean, the people who are only watching conservative talk, you know, talk shows or, or listening to those radio shows, they're only being fed fear around the DSA movement. And so it's, it's interesting to see that, that fear only being more and more entrenched and an opportunity to actually pull people closer to them. And, and this is why we need more than two parties, right? This is why we need four to six parties, because in any moment in time, you know, the two-party system has not served us well. And so we really— we, we need coalitions around really divisive issues. And it's okay if you, if you side with one coalition on this issue and a different coalition on another issue, if that's the best idea. We're capitalist everywhere except for our politics.. And I'm so tired of parties fighting instead of good ideas.

Wow. No, I mean, I totally agree. Obviously, I mean, you've been part of the Forward movement from the get-go, and the Forward Party has endorsed you. Uh, and, um, I've donated to your campaign, would urge other people to do so as well. I'm sure anyone listening to this right now is moved, saying like, wow, Lauren is exactly the kind of leader that not just Tennesseans want, but the vast majority of Americans want, because you are a good person who wants to make things better and will be pragmatic and, uh, balanced and non-ideological. In the approach. It is a disease of the two-party system that what both sides do is take the most extreme person on the other side and say, this is what the other side is. You know, for MSNOW and the liberal media, it's the Jan. 6 insurrectionists. And I think I just saw something about, you know, some like Ku Klux Klan type march. And I always looked at that and it's like, okay, That is real and that exists. But imagining that that applies to 50% of Americans is insane or applies to a majority of the, you know, 74 million who voted for Trump is, in my opinion, also wrong. And then on the flip side, Fox will just look at whoever the weirdest, like, like, strangest, most defund the police, like activist or candidate or elected official and say this is what the Dems are, uh, and rinse and repeat. Um, and by the way, like, you know, like, there are growing numbers of people that you could scare people with on either side.

Absolutely.

I mean, you're right, and two things can be true at the same time. We had, uh, so I live currently about 30 minutes from the birthplace of the KKK. The KKK had an— had a rise in the last few years and actually stapled threatening posters to Black churches in my town within the last 3 years. That is true. And I was at a Democratic Women's meeting a few weeks ago introducing myself, and one of the women there was talking about the Republicans in her town and said, "I just want to cut their heads off." And that is, you know, that is also true. Like, we don't solve this problem by digging our heels in deeper. Beheading is not the answer.

I am anti-beheading.

Exactly.

And, you know, I think I think a lot about Abraham Lincoln. He was another third-party candidate, of course, who found himself in the middle of a movement. And his quote— I don't know what— I was such a weird nerdy kid. I had his quote taped to the inside of my locker in 7th grade in my public middle school, and it said, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." And maybe I was going through some weird girl drama, I don't know, but I have always found that quote to be really compelling. And I don't know, in my older age, I don't know if if he was saying that he wanted to protect himself, or if he was just the kind of intellectual leader that knew that in order to heal our nation, you had to keep the people who thought differently than you very close. Because the way he was able to navigate the most divisive moment in our nation's history, and to do it by keeping the union together, is remarkable. History repeats itself every 80 years. And so 80 years after the Civil— after the Civil War, we had kind of the crash of the stock market and kind of a realigning of banks and policy. And we're in another We're in that year, another 80 years later, where people are asking that question again, like, where are the leaders? And that was my question after the 2024 election. Where are the peacemakers? Because we're going to need peacemakers to guide us through with a different kind of vision for our country, because we cannot survive if we eat ourselves.

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Abraham Lincoln is an inspiration to many of us. And what people don't realize is that he was a third-party candidate where the Republican Party was a brand new party.

That's right.

And he won in a, uh, it was, I believe it was a 3 or 4-way race and won with less than 50% of the vote.

Mm-hmm.

And Lincoln was a great unifier. Uh, one of the things I now believe is that it is impossible for the great unifier to come from within either of our two legacy parties.

That's right, it is impossible. And, and with the way that things are right now, I just, you know, it's clear, more clear now than ever that we have the strongest, we have the strongest class of independent candidates this year than I've ever seen. And while I'm so grateful for everything that the Forward Party is doing, I'm fully behind the, the work of getting the Forward Party propped up in every state. That is a long job. And each state has a lot of challenges and hurdles that people don't understand because they want to vote for somebody different and they don't understand that it takes about 20 years, you know, or some time to build that infrastructure, right?

It takes more than one cycle for sure.

It does. It takes more than one cycle.

And very, very grateful to you for, uh, being in it with the long term in mind. So you've got Martha Blackburn who's, uh, the incumbent governor, and then I met— is that right?

She's a current senator, uh, so She's—

oh, that's what it is. I knew she was— I was like, she just won. But then, so she has— is leaving the Senate.

We'll have primaries in— I'm not sure when this will air. We'll have primaries August 6th. And so she's a front runner right now. We have another congressman who's running, and then we have a self-described Christian nationalist running on the, on the right.

Okay, so you have 3 people in the Republican primary, and then you have a Democratic primary, and then you have you. Lauren Pinkston running as an independent, which means you get to bypass the primary nonsense and then presumably be there on the November ballot.

That's right, I'll be on your November ballot. And the real fun thing is, depending on how primaries shake out, the front runner on the right is a white woman with a color in her name, Marsha Blackburn. The front runner on the left is a white woman with a color in her name, Jerry Green. Here I am, Lauren Pinkston. I said they could not have written this better for the history books. So it's, uh, it's It's a really fun race where, where race and gender are taken out of it. The candidates really get to— they get to shine and our policies get to speak for themselves.

Well, you're certainly going to look great when people size you up and compare and contrast you with the business-as-usual Republican leadership in a state that's sort of pretend uniparty, I suppose. And then on the Democratic side, you have someone who and I don't know this candidate, but we'll have a very uphill climb trying to overcome the toxicity of the Democratic National Party brand in a predominantly rural state.

That's right. That's right. Only 19% of Tennesseans identify as Democrats. 37% identify as Republicans, but 44% identify as nonpartisans and independents now. So we have the majority. The campaign has not been difficult to sell at all. As soon as people hear about it or they meet me, they're in. And so, you know, just the tiniest investment, and this campaign helps us to go so far. And I think that we make the case for the, the best, uh, the best case study for the New Southern Strategy. And if Tennessee falls, a lot of other states are going to fall with us. And I think that this is the best thing that anybody can invest in this year for the future of the country.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure. Tennessee has grown 14% over the last decade. And so our communities have really felt the crunch and really felt squeezed when it comes to infrastructure and resources. Housing has been huge. As you know, you know, the average age of a home— first-time homebuyer is 38 now. And that's not the state that I grew up in. That's not, that's not the reality. We're 90,000 slots short when it comes to childcare. So at the top of my initiatives is opening up 50,000 of those slots in my first 4 years as governor and working to do that near site and on site with industry, because people should be able to be close to their kids when they go to work. And right now you can't attract industry in the rural parts of the state because of the lack of childcare. So that's a huge focus for me. Education is huge as well for people because we have a newly pushed through voucher system that is has really just been a government subsidy for the wealthy and, and the larger cities in Tennessee to send their kids to school. Over 90% of the people who were already in private school are the ones that are receiving those vouchers, and the average income of the people receiving those vouchers is $170,000. So people are very unhappy with that being pushed through. Um, and so affordability and education are huge. Healthcare is of course another one. Tennessee has the highest maternal mortality rate in the country now.

No.

And yes.

What?

Terrible.

I mean, we're in a state now where we're looking at Mississippi thinking, that could be good. And that's never been us. No shame to Mississippi, but you know.

Mississippi is having a moment where—

They are.

Where California schools are underperforming Mississippi. You know, I think Michigan might be behind them in some measurements. So congratulations, Mississippi, but that's still not what you want if you're in Tennessee.

I mean, that's kind of what we've always carried with us. Like, we're Southern, but at least we're not Mississippi. And that's not true anymore. We have more hospital closures now in Tennessee. We're the fastest growing state for hospital closures in the country as well. We are $83 billion behind in road and bridge infrastructure backlog projects. Just so many things that have happened in this uniparty system where people are saying, okay, well, maybe even Lamar Alexander himself said this creates lazy legislators and we have, we have just grossly failed you know, our people.

Competition, it's good for the soul, it's good for policy, it's good for driving results. Lack of competition tends to lead to laziness and self-dealing and like bloat and underperformance and inefficient use of resources and lack of accountability. All the things we pretty much are experiencing.

That's right, that's right, that's right. And so for all of the business people who have run on their business acumen And it's not translating to government. And I'd like to, I'd like to see that changed.

Well, if anyone's going to be able to change it, it's you, Lauren. Again, I have donated to your campaign and would love for other people to let their friends in Tennessee know about your candidacy. And if you're not, and if you don't know in Tennessee, there are still many ways you can help. What is your website and how can people best get behind you?

Yeah, it's pinkston4tn.com. So pink like the color, S-T-O-N. 4tn.com. There's a place to sign up for a call from me on the website, so if you have more questions, you can actually get on my calendar directly through there. Um, there are loads of policy positions, over 100, that you can see exactly where I stand on things. That was, that was my favorite thing about your campaign in 2020.

I—

you had over 400 positions there, and it was just really refreshing. And, uh, yeah, I'm all over social media as well, so Pinkston 4TN at all the social media outlets. So lots of ways to get involved.

Well, you're an awesome human. I'm sure a great parent. I'm sure some of your kids are schlepping around with you on the road. It's one of the joys of campaigning where you get to bring them with you and they get to see mom or dad and actually try to make things better. And I'm sure everywhere you go, when people understand who you are and why you're running, they realize that you're offering them a better path. Thank you for running. Thank you for everything that you're doing for your— for your long-term support of and championing forward as a means to bring communities together and actually give Americans the solutions that we've been waiting for for so long. Pinkstonfortn.com. Lauren Pinkston. Think pink. Donate pink. It's certainly— it would be a real little respite from the red versus blue, not just in Tennessee, but around the country. Thank you, Lauren.

Thank you, Andrew, so much.

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