Dr. Mark Hyman on Function Health & GLP-1 microdosing | E2334

Most doctors don't use any kind of tech to make decisions.

1 in 3 Americans are like skipping going to talk to a doctor when they have an issue because they can't afford it.

6 out of 10 with chronic illness, 93% with metabolic dysfunction, you know, we have 75% are obese or overweight. I mean, this is just— we have a staggering problem that is not being addressed by our system. And we spend more and more money, we're getting sicker and sicker. 65% with high insulin levels, which never get checked.

A Harvard study, ChatGPTs and the large language models basically were As accurate or more accurate than doctors. The preference of the patient and the bedside manner, the results from the LLM are better.

Well, they're— it's gone from terrible to actually pretty good.

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Great. I'm feeling great.

Awesome. Awesome.

Life is good.

How do you— you do have a great life. Uh, how do you split your time? I mean, you got this great podcast. I tune in once in a while, you know, I hear the topic and then I jump in. Sometimes it's for ladies, sometimes it's for, for guys. Uh, but it, but it's great because you're so Candid and honest during it. You obviously have Function Health is surging. We're going to talk a lot about the entrepreneurial journey there. And then are you a doctor as well?

Like, out in the world being a doctor? I'm a real doctor. I have a practice up in Massachusetts where I'm now, and I see patients. I have a limited patient roster compared to how I used to, which was just full-time all the time. You know, after tens of thousands of patients, I'm like, slow down a little bit. Actually, you know, function is my main focus because it's really a way to scale what I'm doing to millions if not billions of people. And I think I could sit and see patients all day, every day, and I'd never be able to sort of bridge the gap that's happening in healthcare right now, which is really to get people to understand their biology and using technology to help accelerate their ability to create healthier lives.

Yeah. And you were very early to this, which I describe— and I don't know if I'm using the right descriptor— as self-directed healthcare, people taking ownership of it. I think You know, my friend Tim Ferriss, maybe they call it biohacking.

Yeah.

You know, the Joe Rogans of the world have their own view on it. But what is function health and how should we look at this movement of, hey, I'm not just gonna be a passive participant in my healthcare. What is the proper term here? And more importantly, what is the philosophy that we as patients should have in the age of AI and all these amazing services available to us?

Function is really about giving people agency democratizing healthcare and allowing people access to their own biology. Because up until very recently, you know, I'm a doctor and I'm in healthcare system. You had to go to the doctor, you had to ask for what you want if you even knew what to ask for. You had to hope they would, he or she would agree to do it. You have to hope your insurance would pay for it. And if they did, you know, it usually was quite a bit of money and people didn't, didn't have a real understanding of what's happening under the hood. And so functional health is really an attempt to bring your biology online to help people have access to their data, to own their own health data, and to use that information to understand where they are in the trajectory of their health and how to either identify current problems and issues, which we do very often with Function, or just see where you're headed in the trajectory and sort of get on the off-ramp if you're heading down toward a serious disease like diabetes or Alzheimer's or, or something terrible. So Function is really about empowering people with their own data and using technology and AI to help understand that. data and make sense of it. Because, you know, we're complex beings and we have so much going on all the time, and, and the human mind can only comprehend so much. And that's why we have super subspecialization. But the body's not a bunch of different parts and organs. It's one system.

Yeah. And as a doctor— well, 2 questions. One, this just term functional health, I, I never knew what that meant. The name of your company is Function. That's what people refer to it as. Should I understand what the word functional health means?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So functional medicine and functional health are 2 different things.

But functional medicine is a discipline. Yes.

Yes. So functional health is really our personal health platform that's empowering people with their own data, and it's informed by all traditional medical science and all our most emerging understandings. For example, traditional medicine understands that the microbiome plays a role in health. But there's really no focus on it clinically. Or there's a real understanding that nutrition plays a role in health, but doctors don't really understand how to apply that and don't learn about it in medical school. And so functional medicine is a framework for understanding the body as a network, not as a bunch of organs and parts, but actually as a cohesive system. And that it's really more focused on the science of creating health and treating disease. So it's focused on lifestyle medicine, your diet, exercise, stress, sleep, your nutritional status, hormonal balance, and also like understanding the role of your gut microbiome and your mitochondria and inflammation and toxins and things that are in the ether that people are hearing about, but they don't understand that there's actually a system of medicine that helps you see the world through a different set of lenses that gets to the root cause of disease. So it's really root cause focused. It's really systems focused. It's creating health focus. And that, and those principles are embedded in functional health.

But it's not all that functional health is.

Functional health is really the full spectrum of medicine from soup to nuts, and it includes all that.

This is one of the key differences I think in this movement is people are now pursuing this, um, with trying to have their healthspan increase and, uh, feel healthier as opposed to looking at the healthcare system, which is in this country. I'm sure we'll get into this at some point. That could be a whole nother episode. It's quite dysfunctional. I mean, when I just read the statistic when I was getting ready to talk to you that 1 in 3 Americans are like skipping going to talk to a doctor when they have an issue because they can't afford it. Like, yeah, in America, in the— in this like incredible country, these people are delaying medical care. It's just really tragic. But there are people who have a little bit of privilege who have had to have these, um, you know, personalized doctors, and they have this concierge doctor experience.

Yeah, yeah.

And they get to experience something very different than the majority of Americans. And my perception is the role of Function, your company, is really to take what I've started experiencing in the last decade once I had made a little bit of money that I didn't experience in the first 40 years of my life when sometimes I didn't have healthcare and I was like, you know what, I don't— I can't afford to see the doctor. So explain what the products and services are in the stack, in the product now that help bridge that gap between What somebody with a concierge doctor, which these things cost $25,000, $50,000 a year.

Or more. Or more.

Some people are charging $250,000 a year. I don't want anybody to get in trouble here, but I have heard of these numbers.

Yes, yes.

I pitched on that number once to spit out my espresso. But putting all that aside, can't put a price on a good time. Explain to me, like, where you saw the wedge to say, hey, wait a second, there's there's a way to get in here. Because as an investor in companies, man, I wanted to invest in so many healthcare companies, and I was just like, ah, this just feels like we're not going to make any progress. System's too dysfunctional. But you figured it out.

We did. Somehow we did. It's quite amazing the, the way this took off over the last 4 years. I mean, we launched 3 years ago, and we, you know, we have, um, just an extraordinary growth trajectory. And I think it just speaks to the fact that people are hungry to be able to own their own health and to check their health. And I think You know, the, the, the offering is, is very similar in a way to a concierge doctor because you get a really deep analysis of your biology. Your full medical history's in there that you put in. It can access your EMR. All your wearables can be connected. You get a deep stack of lab testing, which is over 160 biomarkers tested twice a year, plus add-ons if you want for $1 a day, which is so affordable. Like the membership is basically $1 a day. Now, I've done these labs for years and years on patients, and the retail price on these is like $15,000. It's really inaccessible.

Yeah. And, and why are those tests so expensive? Is it just the dysfunction of our insurance kind of at hospitals? And but then you have like everybody seems to be using Quest or there's some platform behind it that actually turns out to be really cheap, but they don't give you any interpretation of it. So you're kind of flying blind.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we, we, uh, we don't actually own lab. We partner with Quest, who's our testing partner, and there's over 2,000 draw stations, uh, across the country, and they'll draw and process the labs. We also, you know, have them in-house and home phlebotomy, so you can get LabShot at home. We also have imaging, whole body imaging. Whole body imaging you can get for, I think it's $899 now, quite affordable, and it's very quick.

$899?

Yeah.

That is a fraction of— I used I used another service 3 or 4 years ago and it was $3,000. This price is coming down dramatically.

Yeah, price is coming down.

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Healthcare is funny. It's like that. I don't know if you ever saw that. If healthcare operated— the airlines operated like healthcare, it would be what it would be like. It's so terrible. And, and, you know, I used to work at Cleveland Clinic and there in the Cleveland Clinic lab, a vitamin D would be $300. If you go to Quest, it might be $10. That's kind of how healthcare is. So you could buy, imagine buying a Toyota on one lot for 10 grand and then the same Toyota on another lot for 100 grand. That's kind of how healthcare is. There's no transparency in pricing. It's very bizarre. So we've been able to kind of democratize the access through the pricing. And then you imagine all your data gets fed into your personal health platform that you have access to that is a dashboard for your health that integrates all this information that provides an AI chat helps you understand what's going on, gives you an action plan after understanding what's happening with your biology and identifies a lot of things. And we're seeing so much going on in the population. This is a health-forward population, but we still have a lot of sort of Americans who are just sort of, you know, middle-class Americans. I think that, I think the average income is under $100 grand. And the, the results we're seeing are astounding. We're seeing like 65% with high insulin levels, which never get checked. We're seeing almost 70% of people with a nutritional deficiency at the level that the lab says is low. It's what I would say is optimal. We're seeing 54% with high ApoB, which is a lipid biomarker that most doctors don't check that is more important than LDL or any other cholesterol biomarker based on the American College of Cardiology literature. And yet it's not checked. So we are really going deep and looking at heavy metals, at hormones, your nutritional status, your metabolic status, and it really gives people understanding what's happening. We can even look for cancer through Multi-cancer early detection testing, and there's newer—

There's a blood test. Yes, I took this blood test, um, a couple years ago that is just a generic blood test for cancer, and you obviously have to follow up. I was told it's 80% accurate or 90%. It could be false positive, yada yada. But that's like a relatively new thing to be able to take a blood test to screen for just generalized cancer.

It's quite amazing, actually, because many cancers we don't have screening tests for. You can get a colonoscopy, you can get a PSA for prostate. There's controversy about that. A mammogram, you can get a Pap test, but it's like there's not a lot. And we believe that cancer's greatest enemy is early detection, and getting it later is hard. I mean, cancer treatments are improving, but it's still not great. And so there's this new developments in cancer diagnostics, which are quite amazing. And then this is the multi-cancer early detection test called Galleri.

We offer for that.

And it looks at over 50 different cancers. It's about 75% good at picking up things. Doesn't get everything all the time. Um, and it has very low false positive rates. So it's not like gonna show you have a positive if it's not there. There's also newer, newer emerging tests that are coming out, proteomics tests we're gonna be adding, and other things that are quite exciting, um, that are really even, even better. So there's—

So there are tens of thousands of people now on Function? Hundreds of thousands? I know that the company's very big, but I'm trying to get an idea of like, what's the footprint of the data you have in We've done over 100 million biomarkers.

100 million biomarkers.

So divide that by some number per person. Maybe you don't disclose the number of people on it, but I'm assuming it's at least tens of thousands of people.

No, it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands. Okay.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, we're reaching millions of people through all the things that we do.

So it's amazing.

Yeah. And I think the growth and success really speaks to how hungry people are to to not just abdicate their healthcare to the healthcare system. And it's great when you have an acute injury, but for, for, you know, preventive care, for proactive care, for care that's actually focused on creating health, dealing with a lot of common problems that people have, we don't really have a good model. And, and I think functional health has just hit that sweet spot in the market where there was a big gap and we didn't even know how big it was until we, we, we thought, you know, I don't know, I mean, basically was sitting on a porch in Hawaii during COVID and it's like came up with this idea with my friend and we're like, okay, And here we go.

Yeah. And that, you know, $400 a year, whatever the membership is, and I guess you can do 2 blood tests a year.

So the $365 account accounts for twice your testing. Wow.

And, and I'm sure there's some upsells on like more detailed testing. Yes.

Yes, you can do more testing.

Yeah. You can get into maybe low thousands, $1,000, $2,000, $3,000.

Yeah, sure.

Probably the max you could spend here.

Yeah, you could do a lot. I mean, we do, we do brain health screening, we do toxin screening, we do Cancer screening, we do more hormone analysis, we do more nutritional analysis, more metabolic analysis.

We do it with all those is I decide. I say, I'm reading, I'm in the app. This seems like something I would like to know. This seems like something if I'm going to spend $10,000 going on a vacation, or I treat myself to a business class flight for $5,000 or something, you know, now a person can say, you know what? Instead of buying a $5,000 bag or watch, I'm gonna buy a $1,000 one, and I'm gonna put $3,000 or $4,000 into my health and get all this stuff checked. And that's, I think, what you guys have inspired in people, and that I'm starting to see amongst friend groups, that the, the wealth is in the health. And that—

100%.

Who cares about your health insurance? Just like, if it's $1,000 or less, just do it. Like, why wouldn't you just do it? And that is not just from a person of privilege. This is now the middle class can say that.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, this isn't really, you know, we have in America is more disease insurance, not so much health insurance. Like, you know, doctor, I want you to help me get healthy. They're like, well, I don't know.

What code is that?

Yeah, it hurts. We don't, we don't, we don't really have that. And so I think, I think we're good at acute care medicine, but when it comes to The crisis that's happening in America today, which is 6 out of 10 with chronic illness, 93% with metabolic dysfunction, where 75% are obese or overweight. I mean, this is just— we have a staggering problem that is not being addressed by our system. And we spend more and more money. We're getting sicker and sicker. And I think people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. So that's why I think function has hit such a note in this society culture.

You mentioned the full body scan. I want to Double and then triple click on it. You bought a company, Ezra, last year. Yes. They do this full body scanning.

Yes.

My friend from Spotify, Daniel, like he's got one. There's another one in the market. I can't remember the name of it. I did.

That's different. That's not MRI.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel's is not. But yeah.

Daniel's is not. So explain to me what this general area is, the differences. And when I did the one I did with I think Prunovo, if I'm pronouncing correct, my doctor was like. Don't do it. You know, this is my concierge doctor. I said, "Well, I'm sorry. Don't do it. Why?" And they were like, "It's you're gonna find a nodule. You're gonna find something, and then you're gonna be super anxious." I'm like, "I'm fine. I'd rather know I got it." And so I was like, "You know, all due respect, I'm doing it." Yeah. And they don't even know what to interpret. He's like, "I don't." He's like, "I have a lot of patients talking about or doing it." So it was very confusing for me to have a concierge doctor then telling me it's a waste of time.

Yeah.

You tell me, Dr. Mark. Tell me, Dr. Mark. What what should I think about these? And that general. What's the general reaction from classic doctors?

Well, we're entering a whole new era of data-driven healthcare, which we never had before. Doctors are trained very specifically to do the minimum amount necessary to make the diagnosis and then find the drug or the surgery to treat that diagnosis. It's not about gathering lots of data to really have a deep understanding of human biology. That's never been possible before. And so doctors have a, a very bad bias against testing and against imaging unless it's for confirmation of what a presumed diagnosis is. That's how we're trained. What's happening now, Jason, is that we're in a data-driven healthcare model where we're able to get, you know, hundreds and hundreds of biomarkers. We're looking at metabolomics, which is 6,000 metabolites, proteomics, which is tens of thousands of proteins, genetics, which is 20,000 genes and millions of SNPs. We're able to look at your microbiome, which has, you know, petabytes of data in there. We have imaging now where we can get, you know, terabytes of data on, on your own body through imaging and, and make sense of it all. Because no, no human mind can make sense of all that data. And Lee Hood has done a lot of this work. He's, uh, the head— founded the Institute for Systems Biology. He's now got a program called PhenomHealth, which is sort of almost like a nonprofit version of Function, where they're gathering large datasets on people, looking at trends in a predictive model. He calls it P4 medicine, which is preventive, predictive, Personalized and participatory, meaning you have to do stuff to get better. And that's where we should be going. We call it P4 medicine. That, that's really what Function is focusing on. And, and I believe we're gonna be entering an era where, where we're gonna start to be able to make sense of all this data with AI in a way that is going to really help highlight where you are now with your biology, what's outta whack and what to do with it and how to optimize your health to feel better now and to live 100 healthy years. And that's, that's really the mission of Function.

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Any downside? A baseline. There's no downside to an MRI. It's basically non-radiation. With our technology, which has been FDA approved, we get 22-minute whole body scan, which is amazing, using AI to help sort of compress the data. And we were able to sort of sequentially over time You know, do it at an affordable price. It allows you to get a longitudinal picture. So one any one data point is is not that helpful unless you really find something. But over time, if you you need less time in the scanner, you get better data, and you're able to see changes over time that can predict where you're headed. Now you will sometimes find stuff that's an incidental finding; it's not a problem like a kidney cyst or a liver cyst or something like that. Usually the radiologist can tell what that is. Sometimes you'll find stuff that You know, might be concerning and you need to follow it up. And we found aneurysms, we found pituitary tumors, we found, you know, people with, with more serious problems. And, and, and it's, if you find a cancer in an early stage, it's curable, right? Stage 1 is, is curable. Whereas if you'd wait till 3 or 4, it's definitely not. So I think, you know, the imaging is, is, is accessible now, it's affordable now, and, and longitudinally is where it really becomes high value.

Got it. If you and I had it, yeah, I'm, I'm 55, you, I think you're like, I'm a bigger brother, maybe 1 or 2 years older, but—

No, I'm gonna be 67, Jason.

Amazing. You look— I mean, I don't know how you look better than me, but okay, here we are. I guess you have the inside track on this, uh, but I've been on a health journey myself. Um, and if we had this, you know, if you and I had it from our, you know, from the '70s, the '80s, the '90s, like, what would that have— what would that unlock for us potentially when we do a consultation with a doctor, or God forbid something comes up?

I think the, the more data you have and the, the better it's with AI, the better you're gonna be able to engage with your own health and your healthcare system and your doctor to ask the right questions to find the right things. And, and I think, you know, it's a, we're in this real pivotal moment from like episodic, fragmented disease-based, symptom-based care to, you know, proactive, data-driven, longitudinal, continuous healthcare. And with tech, we can finally achieve that. And I, I don't know if most people listening realize this because I know you focused a lot on tech, tech. But healthcare is, it is so antiquated and anachronistic in terms of data. Like when I, when I tell you that most doctors don't use any kind of tech to make decisions. Like in other words, if you're a financial analyst, you have to use spreadsheets and you use—

Yeah. You got a Bloomberg terminal. You've got analysts working for you.

If you're a doctor, you basically take a history, you get some lab tests, you process it in your brain, you write it and you, you use an electronic medical record, which is basically just like a, computer, you know, 2-dimensional paper in a computer. And, and for the first time, we're able to actually start to have AI help us assemble large datasets and make sense of it and, and, and create a model that, that never existed before in healthcare. So I think, you know, it still needs to get kinda worked out, but I think we're, we're gonna, we're gonna rapidly iterate and get there. And then we have decision support. So now, you know, I have companies like Open Evidence, which is amazing. So now I can, you know, take a case of mine, I can throw it all in there. I can, you know, get the best available literature and I can actually, as a doctor, interact with an AI model that makes me a better doctor. It makes me, you know, a better able to understand the data that my patient's presenting because I might not have seen, you know, 45 cases of X, Y, or Z. I might have seen 3 and I, I, I might need a kind of refresher. And so it, it using AI as decision support for providers and for your own personal health is really where we're all going.

And this is really interesting because there was a Harvard study Um, recently, last couple of years, it might have been the last year, and the ChatGPTs and the large language models basically were as accurate or more accurate than doctors in comparable situations. And then the one that kind of shocked me was, in terms of the preference of the patient and the bedside manner, the results from the LLM are better.

Yeah.

So we take from that what we will. But in your sort of anecdotal experience, like using this and then obviously constructing the product and putting rails on it and harnesses to make sure you give people good advice.

Yeah.

Where are we at here in this, you know, summer of 2026? If you could have a choice, like you're, I don't know, a person in a disadvantaged place and you just, it's gonna take you 6 months to go see a doctor, or you can make a decision with ChatGPT today. I'm giving you like hard situations here to—

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

illustrative of the, of the progress. What would you advise that person to do? Take the raw response on their cold or their, you know, shiny?

But I, I mean, the beautiful thing about Function is that it's $365 and you get access to, yes, your data. And then there's a doctor in the loop. So it's not just the AI, there's a doctor in the loop that makes sure that the output that you're getting is actually vetted. So it's kind of like a guardrail on it.

I'm asking a super hypothetical— person's on a desert island— but let's put that out of the thing. Just in general, do you trust the data coming out of them right now? When it— when I put in, you know, here's how I'm feeling, um, here's my symptoms, what should I do next, I'm constantly amazed. And then I bring that to a doctor or an urgent care and they're like, yep, that's exactly right.

Yeah, I mean, it's fun. I, I can tell you just personally using it And trying it out over years and, and, and in, in also in the context of trying to understand it for function, just in the last 3 or 4 years since it's all been going, it's gone from terrible to actually pretty good. I don't think we're quite there to unleash it without any guardrails.

So from terrible to pretty good, no guardrail. We need guardrails.

Got it.

So it's like a 7 out of 10 or something? Yeah.

I would say trust, but trust but verify. Yeah.

Kinda makes sense to me. And, you know, I think at the core of it, I'm not sure if you're aware of these companies, but But we invested in a company, MicroOne. They do data, you know, it's like enhanced data labeling. They hire doctors, they hire accountants, and they very specifically look at all of the output of the LLMs and then retrain them and actually certify, yes, this—

That's what we're doing. That's exactly what we're doing.

You're doing that too, yeah.

Within our company, we have lots of doctors who are reviewing everything that are actually coming out of the LLMs and making sure that you know, it comports with what actually a clinical perspective is. That's a human, which is good.

So we didn't get to wearables yet. You guys don't have a wearable, but you authenticate with them.

Yes. So you can, you can put actually all your wearable connected into Function. You just have to click a button, it'll connect everything. It will also— you can do your EMR like that. You can also upload all your other lab data. So if you had other imaging, other lab data, You can put it in there. So it basically becomes your own health repository data. And that doesn't exist now. Like when you, when I see a patient, they got a lab from here, they went to this hospital, they went to that doctor. They're like, it's impossible for me as a provider to try to make sense of it all. And I have like, you know, chart, we call it chartomegaly where people come in with a chart like, you know, this thick. Yes. And, and you have to kind of read through everything and it's, it's a nightmare. But now—

And this HIPAA compliance, you just, even if you ask your own doctor, can I have my thing? They're like, Yeah, um, I'm like, okay, great, here's my email. And they're like, sorry, I'm gonna have to send you a CD-ROM with a lock code on it, and then you're gonna have to turn the key at the same time as me. I'm like, we're not taking off a nuclear bomb rocket here. Like, just— I don't care if my healthcare gets hacked, I'm gonna tweet it anyway.

That's right.

I'm tweeting my scores, nobody gives a shit. But this HIPAA has like made it impossible to just share records. Yeah, which is insanity. Like in your system, can I just like give access to my doctor and say, hey, uh, um, you, you can right now, you, you can provide them your password and your, your, your email to get in.

They can see it all, or you can download the, the things and send it to them. And eventually there's going to be that integration.

Multiplayer mode is what we need. We really need multiplayer mode in this. And I hope Function can be that sort of place. It happens to every business at some point. You're nearing the end of the month, or maybe it's the quarter, and your sales team is at risk of missing their quota. You could waste days pulling together data from across the entire organization, or you could just ask Rippling AI. Rippling's already built on your real-time people and business data, obviously, so Rippling AI can pull metrics from both Rippling and your CRM into a meeting-ready dashboard. See exactly how close you are to hitting that quota, break down your revenue by region or sales rep or more, All in just seconds with Rippling AI. Look, you're running a company, you're busy, you have critical questions that you need immediate answers to, and you can't just file a ticket and wait a week for your team to get around to sending you a report. And you don't want to sit around waiting for reports. You need an actionable insight right now. So if you're ready to rule your business, head to rippling.ai/twist to get the only AI built to give you full visibility and let you take complex actions across your startup. Do you wear a wearable? Do you think it's important to obsess over sleep, the Whoops, the Auras, the Apples, because I've gotten a little obsessed with these things, uh, over time. I'm looking at my recovery, my HRV, my sleep, everything, stress. I have a little OCD when I get this.

If it makes you more stressed watching it, then it's probably not—

Not more stress, but it has shaped my behavior when I'm like, wow, going out till 2 AM wrecks you for 3 days. Uh, going to Japan, like, your sleep is Just screw it for 6, 7 days. And then I start feeling a little guilty about it, but I'm like, oh, but I'm in Japan. It's pretty cool. So I think I'll let myself go on my recovery score.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

No, I think— Do you wear one? Do you think it's like an important part of the mix or is it just like—

I think it is important because I think, you know, we're able to, through these technologies, pick up very subtle signals where things are off and whether it's heart disease, blood pressure, there's a lot of, you know, COVID. I mean, there's a lot of things that show up. So if you have the data integrated in a way with technology, it's a good barometer of where you're at. And also, like, it helps you change behavior. So people really shift. I mean, I know, for example, myself, like, I noticed I used to drink a little bit here and there, and I'm like, I— it really wrecks my sleep. And the problem is I went to the All-In Summit and I bought your freaking tequila.

And so, be careful with that.

Oh, it's very smart. I bought tequilas. I'm like, wait a minute, now what do I do?

You sip it. I mean, I, I think it's like really super important because I did learn, um, I, I think twice in like 2 or 3 years of like the latest wearable I've been experimenting with, I had one time it was like, hey, by the way, your HRV is really off, what's going on? And then I had a cold. Um, and then another time it was like, your skin temperature's crazy. And then I go and I get checked, I have a cold. And I was like, wait a second, this is incredible. Because if that was COVID, if I am correct, that would mean I would have taken whatever that fluvoxamine, whatever, Paxlovid, in the window, because you have a window to take it. It would have actually, if I'm correct in my, uh, yeah, the time I got it. And, and that's what exactly it was. It was COVID. My heat was so crazy, my skin temperature went up 2 degrees. And it was like, hey dummy, something's wrong. And I was like, okay. And my wife said, hey dummy, take a COVID test. I took a COVID test.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I think, I think where it is, it is exciting, Jason. I think, you know, we're seeing a convergence of multiple things happening all at the same time. We're, we're seeing the convergence of like AI with the emerging model of systems medicine and biology, with the quantified self-wearable movement, with capacity to sort of get large datasets on individuals, with you know, the omics revolution where we're able to get, you know, very cheap genomes very soon, very full, you know, omics, which gives you so much more data. You know, like the average doctor maybe like 20 blood tests, we do 160, but you've got 6,000 metabolites in your blood from metabolomics. So you've got, as I said, tens of thousands of proteins and all these genes and, and that, that, that, that's useful information. I think, I think more information for me as a doctor is always better. The more data I have, the more intelligent decision I can make, the better I can help my patients, the better people can learn about themselves. And making empowered decisions about how to activate their own health.

Yeah, the alcohol and sugar. Yeah, those are the two really— I think people underestimate the negative impact of those two compounds.

Yeah, well, actually, you mentioned the sugar thing. Yes, I think we have an epidemic of poor metabolic health, which means people are somewhere in the spectrum of diabetes, from prediabetes or pre-prediabetes to prediabetes to type 2 diabetes. And we, and we've seen 90, according to the data from Tufts, 93% of Americans have some version of this and not full prediabetes, but like some degree. And the estimates are maybe 1 in 2 to, you know, maybe 3 in 4 have prediabetes depending on the definition. And, and what's going on is that, you know, doctors don't test for it because there's no easy drug for it. I mean, GLP-1s can help, but there, there's no testing for this on a systematic basis. And so at Function Health, we check insulin. It is probably one of the most important biomarkers for your health, period. And it's super cheap. It's like literally dollars. It's like under $10. I don't even know what it is. Maybe a couple of dollars. I've been testing them for 30 years. I asked Quest, of all the labs that get submitted to you, what percent include insulin? They're like, oh, less than 1%. So doctors are not looking at this. They don't know how to interpret it.

That should be the first thing people are checking in America with the obesity.

It is. And I literally just had a patient this morning. whose blood sugar was normal but whose insulin was like 100, which is extremely high. So the insulin keeps things normal. And, but she was overweight, she had, you know, visceral fat, she was not healthy, but her blood sugar was quote normal. And doctors check your blood sugar, but that's a very, very late sign. That's like by the time your blood sugar goes up, you've already been, you know, going down the road of metabolic crisis for a long time. So insulin is super important and it's, it's one of those things that I I think everybody should have tested. And one of the key things we test with function, and we check your A1C, and we check your particle number and size for cholesterol, which gives you an idea of what's going on with your metabolic health too.

What about these glucose monitors? I'm noticing a lot of healthy people, like the health nut group, wearing a glucose monitor. Like, well, you're like a beast. You look like an Adonis. What are you doing? And they're like, oh, yeah, no, I really want to understand my Those things seem to cost like, I don't know, low hundreds of dollars a month, I think.

Yeah.

And people are kind of getting into that. Is that something you recommend for people to understand their metabolism better, especially people who maybe, like myself, were obese for some period of time?

Absolutely. I mean, absolutely.

Tell us about that.

I don't think you have to use it forever, but as a way to understand how different foods affect you, it's really important. And everybody's different. The microbiome affects your glucose surges, and so everybody needs check what foods are good for them and are not. And I think—

Why is that? Why is it that my body, when I eat a bowl of cereal, might be different than your body when you eat a bowl of cereal?

There's a lot of reasons. Genetics play a big role. So, like, for example, the Native Americans are a great example. The 80% have type 2 diabetes, but 150 years ago, there was zero cases of type 2 diabetes. It was because their genetics are really good at starvation and storage, whereas others are not. And you might have a can of Coke and you're your insulin might go up really high and mine might go up a little bit because same can of Coke. So it's not the, it's not the food, it's your, it's your biology and how it responds to it. And so I think people learning what foods affect them and which foods surge their blood sugar, which foods don't, how to construct a meal to balance your blood sugar is so important because balanced blood sugar is the key phenomenon that you have to have for healthy aging. I remember a lecture that I heard from the head of preventive cardiology at Harvard, Dr. Jorge Plutzky, years ago. And he said, if you were to take a group of 100-year-old people, that have clean arteries, they'd have one thing in common. And I said, what's that? He said, they'd be insulin sensitive, meaning their blood sugar would be well regulated and they would not be insulin resistant, which most Americans are. Like, like at least 3 quarters of, of, or 2 thirds, sorry, of, of our members that function have an insulin level that is over the reference range for, for the lab, which is 18. Optimal should be like under 10 or even 5. So the way we come up with, quote, normal ranges is we say, what's the average in a population 2 standard deviations away? So if you're like a Martian, you land in America, it's normal to be overweight because 75% of us are overweight. It's not optimal, but it's normal.

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, that sounds like somebody doing an insurance table or something fugazi is trying to make that happen. And then I also learned Like, I was like this. I would get hungry, 11 o'clock at night, I have a bowl of cereal, then I have a second bowl.

Yeah.

And I watch, I'm like, oh my God, I'm spiking like crazy. Then I do the experiment, I have some Häagen-Dazs, it barely spikes. I'm like, wait a second, come on, I can have a scoop of ice cream instead of a bowl of cereal?

That's like totally counterintuitive. It's got fat and protein in it.

Exactly.

And cereal, and when starches, those sugars are just deconstructed industrial science projects that spike your sugar crazy.

Yeah, yeah. And we— and sold on our whole life. Yeah, just have a bowl of Wheaties, you're good. It's like, no, that's like 3 bowls of, uh, cereal, 3 bowls of sugar.

Yeah, I'm like, I have a confession to make. I'm a cereal killer. C-E-A-R.

So good. Cereal killer. Exactly. I loved it myself. And then the other thing I learned doing it was the order of like eating stuff matters. So it's like, yes, yeah, if you want to have some mashed potatoes, um, yeah, after you have your steak or after you have your fish, you can have some of the pasta, but just eat it in that order. I'm So, I did that experiment. And then, the final one that was incredible was, oh, yeah, walk 10 minutes to your car after dinner and it's a whole different profile. So then, I made this tiny adjustment. You go to the parking lot, I'm going to a restaurant, I don't use the valet. I save $20, Dr. Mark. I park on the street 5 blocks away on purpose.

That's great.

Save $20. And then, if I'm 5 blocks away, it's a half mile together. So, here I go.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'll make a loop. These are very simple things that I would never have done if I didn't actually run experiments myself. That's—

Yeah, I think, yeah, don't eat carbs first, you know, walk after eating. It's very simple, right? Don't eat cereal, eat ice cream.

Well, I— so let's talk about GLPs for a second. I think this is really interesting. I was listening to a podcast with my friend Tim Ferriss and his pal Kevin Rose 4 or 5 years ago during COVID Yeah. Uh, and my friend, um, Kevin Rose, who did the website Digg, was saying, you know, he's a biohacker. He's like, yeah, I'm using this Ozempic thing. I'm taking this pen, it's for diabetics because I want to get rid of some visceral fat, yada yada. Here it— go to my doctor, I say, listen, I want to get on this thing. I'm literally 213 pounds. I'm 5'8.5, like I was 40-plus pounds overweight. And my doctor's like, I don't know what you're talking about, that's for diabetics. I'm like, yeah, can you listen to this podcast? He's like, what's a podcast? I'm like, okay, here we go again.

What's up?

I just got $50,000 a year.

What's a bike?

Yeah, what's a podcast? Anyway, I said, listen, if you can get me this, great. If you don't get it, I'm going to another doctor and this is the end of the relationship. I want to do this experiment. You should want to do it too because this is the future. He's like, all right, whatever, Jake. I do it. Unbelievable. Just— and I start doing intermittent fasting. Boom. Yeah. I, uh, I also have a friend who is not me who, uh, tested, uh, doing some Reddit True Tide. Uh, it was someone who is not Yeah. Uh, swim. My friends swim. It's not me. And I was just able to go from 213 to 168, you know, just very elegantly. And I feel great. I had a little muscle. What is this magic of GLPs? And then where is this going to be in another year or 2? Because I had a couple people in my life, they refused to take that little shot. They're now— I have 3 people in my life who are taking the pill. And is it advisable? Because I got a lot of friends who part of this Austin Fitness lunacy and they look like Adonises. They're from the cast of 300 and they're taking a microdose. They're taking a microdose. Is everybody going to be on a microdose?

I mean, it's a great question. You know, I think, I think, you know, we have had really altered microbiomes and our diets are, are not optimizing our microbiome. And a healthy microbiome is necessary for actually your own endogenous GLP-1 production, 'cause the body makes GLP-1. And so we have kind of a lot of reasons why we kind of have this whole obesity epidemic. And I think GLP-1s are a tool like any other tool. They're not a panacea. They do have concerns and side effects. You know, there's about a 4% serious adverse side effect profile with these. Now, 4% doesn't sound like a lot, but if you took 100 million people and put 'em on it, that's 4 million people.

Yeah.

And, and about 75% have digestive issues. There, there's muscle loss, If people aren't focused on maintaining muscle. So I think used in the right way for the right person, probably not the person who just wants to lose like 5 pounds, but you can do it in conjunction with a doctor who focuses on nutrition, adequate protein consumption, and strength training so you don't lose muscle. Because that's a big problem. If you lose muscle, then you're losing your metabolic engine. You burn less calories at the same weight. And if you gain back the weight, which most people do if they stop, then you end up in an even worse situation because you're gaining back all the weight as fat.

Then you're skinny fat.

You're skinny fat.

Technical term.

Yes. All right. We call it toffee. Thin on the outside, fat on the inside. Skinny fat. Yeah. Oh, I like it. And that's not great. So I think my view is if they're prescribed, they should be prescribed with nutrition and exercise program. And in terms of the microdosing, there's a lot of people doing it. There's not a lot of data on it. We don't really know the long-term benefits, consequences. People are raving about it. I personally don't think it's that necessary. I think if you understand your own biology, if you understand what works and what doesn't— I'm 66, I'm going to be 67. I have 10% body fat. I have no visceral fat. I know what to do. I don't take any of these drugs. I know how to exercise. I know how to eat well.

Yeah.

Do I have ice cream I mean, for sure I have ice cream and cookies like everybody else, but they're just a, they're a very small part of my diet. So I think, I think that's not to say that people like, you know, who struggle, and, and you've been one of those people who, you know, been in American culture, who've eaten all the shitty processed food, who, you know, gets stuck, these drugs can be a lifesaver. And I, I'm not—

That was the thing I, I figured out from it is that like I gained 2 or 3 pounds a year. I used to be a marathon runner. I was rail thin. I was 162, 163 pounds running marathons. And then just got married, had kids, add 2, 3 pounds a year. All of a sudden I look up, I'm like, well, how am I 45 pounds overweight?

Yeah.

It's like, and then I looked at my Withings scale and it was literally like every year, 2 or 3 pounds. And then you wake up one day and you're like, wow, everything hurts. So let's go to the, the working out part of this. Um, you know, I have been, you know, I listen to all your podcasts and everything. This rucking Yeah. Is really interesting. I got the weight vest, I started rucking around my ranch here out in the Hill Country, and it's a game changer of all game changers.

Yes.

Then I added the farmer's walk to it, and I don't like work out with weights. I don't do serious cardio anymore. I just walk a mile or 2 in a weight vest, 20, 30 pounds.

Yeah.

And then I do a half mile, uh, alternating days or whatever, with anywhere from 10 to 20 pounds on each arm. Walk a half mile, my heart rate goes crazy. And I sleep like a baby. Talk to me about this. Like, what is the optimal working out that we figured out from the science? Because I know running— my knees hurt at this stage from so many marathons. What's optimal for humans? And is it rucking and this like farmer load on, walking through the woods?

What's optimal? Yes. I mean, weight, weight, uh, uh, resistance, uh, to your body weight is important. And whether, whatever it is, whether it's rucking or carrying weights or doing bands or doing weights or doing kettlebells, whatever it is, Muscle is the currency of longevity. If you wanna live a long, healthy life, you need muscle because it is not just there moving your skeleton around, it's the metabolic sink for your body. In other words, when you eat and you move, you're— most of it's going to your muscles do that. And, and it's basically soaking up all the glucose and doing all the things you need to do. And if your muscle's inefficient, if you actually have you know, a ribeye instead of, or a Wagyu ribeye instead of like a filet mignon, which is what a lot of people end up having. They get marbled fat, it doesn't function well and it creates inflammation, it creates heart disease, creates diabetes, creates cancer risk, dementia risk. And so, so strength training is really important and I think it doesn't have to be a lot. It can be 20 minutes, 3 times a week, but you wanna do all the major muscle groups. And then, you know, walking is, if people don't do anything, walking is great And if you want to do more, great. Carrying, you know, carrying a weighted vest is great also because that puts extra strain on your body, helps with, you know, bone density and metabolic health. So there's a lot of ways to do it. You just have to do what you like. I mean, I like to ride my bikes. I'm going to go for a bike ride after this. And I enjoy being in the country. You know, I do work out with bands when I'm traveling and when I can get in the gym, I'll go to the gym. But I'm pretty consistent about it. And I can tell you it's really transformed my life. And as you're getting older, Losing muscle is what causes frailty, disability, dysfunction, and then sort of a downward spiral.

So I think in the 50s and 60s, you should be trying to add a little bit of muscle to the frame and make the muscle strong so that it doesn't atrophy too much.

Yeah. I mean, I'll send you a picture of me in my 40s and then me now. It's kind of distorted because in my 40s, I was skinny. I was a runner. I biked, but I didn't do any strength training. And now I started doing strength training when I'm 59. And my body's completely transformed. Uh, I mean, I don't look like the Hulk. I'm still a tall, thin guy.

Well, I mean, 10% body fat, pretty— you're getting close to Michael Jordan level there. Um, all right, let's— we wrap. Um, you, you— it's, uh, your choice here. Um, I want to talk about this, uh, the massive amount of what I believe is overdiagnosis of mental illness, and then people using all kinds of SSRIs and, you know, anxiety medications. And I, you know, whether it's young kids or just— I'm Gen X, so we were the first Prozac generation. I just have a lot of friends who've been on these things for far too long. They're taking speed, AKA Adderall.

Yeah.

Uh, and they think it's a productivity thing. And then I have some of them come to me and they're like, you know what, after 20 years of doing this, it's the biggest mistake of my life. I've lost a decade. They go on Klonopin, they're on SSRIs. And it went from being like, I'm having a tough time in life, to being this is my standard way I'm going to manage my brain chemistry.

Yeah.

And, you know, friends of mine, with— on 2 or 3 of them, I just watch them lose a decade. It's like tragic. And then with the kids, they want to put like every kid on speed, Ritalin, this, that, because they are behind in math. And I'm like, who cares? Yeah, the, the LLM in the sky is going to do all the math. They'll solve every math problem in the world.

Like, Yeah.

Why are we scrambling people's brains? What's your take on the, the overprescribing of this stuff? And then everybody's got a mental disorder. Yeah, it can't possibly be this many people who are on the spectrum.

We've met— we've met— no, no, you're not crazy. We've medicalized psychiatry. I mean, it's just— I, I think, you know, we do have a mental health crisis in America, and I think it's not, uh, well understood by traditional psychiatry, which likes to label people and then give them drugs for those labels, whether it's depression or ADD or OCD or whatever. The truth is that, and I, and I, I think function is highlighting this because there, there's a lot of biology that's underneath problems with mental health. And I literally this morning I just was reviewing a patient's results who'd done function and they, they had low omega-3s, they had low vitamin D, they had had low B vitamins based on a homocysteine test, which we do. They had insulin resistance. All of these things cause psychiatric symptoms, whether it's depression or anxiety, or low magnesium can do that.

Wow.

And so there are biomarkers of mental health and there are biological causes. And they're now— there's now a whole school of nutritional psychiatry at Harvard, metabolic psychiatry at Stanford. There's a lot of research going on in this. They're just doing doing nutritional interventions. Our ultra-processed diet is driving a huge mental health crisis. There's a lot of data on this. This is well established in the scientific literature. And so I think, you know, we are, we are not treating the, the, the cause, we're treating the symptom. And I, I wrote about this in one of my books. I was researching, you know, kids and all these mental health issues, and, and I've seen a lot of these in my practice. And you, when you, when you get them healthy, they, these things go away. But in this one study, they looked at Juvenile detention centers and kids who were violent and aggressive, and they were able to give them whole real food and get rid of the crap. And the violent crime went down by 97% in the juvenile detention center.

Amazing.

The use of restraints went down 75% and suicide went down 100% in these teenage boys, which is the number 3 leading cause of death in that age group. So food plays a huge role and people aren't looking. So I think, you know, we do overprescribe psychiatric drugs. We are medicalizing things. We're not dealing with the causes. And I think, you know, a company like Functional Health is giving people access to data that allows you actually to see these things and treat 'em. And I think that's, it's important.

I see. I always thought Tom Cruise was right when he started ranting about this and he is like, you know, diet, exercise, like, um, and that, you know, and he, and he is, is basically his rant is what you just said to a certain extent. Yeah. And I was like, wow, how, how did he figure this out before anybody else? Like, And this psychiatry movement and the talk therapy movement, all stuff, okay, perhaps well-intentioned, and I'm sure there's great practitioners and everything, but they send people down this path of like, just take a pill.

Yeah.

And it's like, if you exercise, if you have anxiety and you go socialize and exercise and you meditate— and I, I do this with my kids, I say, if you're feeling blue or something's not right, Have you— your diet, your exercise, your sleep, your meditation, and your socialization. Those are the big 5.

100%.

And I said, these are the 5 I work on because sometimes I feel blue or I feel anxious or like depressed, and I got a great life. And I'm like, did I go have dinner with my friends? Have I meditated? Have I— what's my sleep like? What's my diet? When's the last time I exercised? Whenever I'm feeling blue, I have a 1.5 out of 5 score.

Yeah.

When I feel great, I've got a 4 or a You know, 3, 4, or 5 out of 5.

Yeah, that's right. You're right. I mean, it is, it is really important that people understand that a lot of psychiatric problems can be treated with lifestyle and with foundational things that you talk about. And the data's there. The data's there about nutrition, about exercise, about meditation, about, you know, just overall nutritional status. So I think, I think you're, you're, you're hitting the nail on the head. And I, I think for me, this is, this has been a big passion of mine is, is how do we, how do we read reframe and rethink about mental health in this country, because what we're doing is terrible.

I mean, we just— it's reframing it. Like, if you, if you had a dog and the dog was not behaving well, and you say, oh, on the days when the dog goes for a long walk, it's such a delightful dog, and the days when it's cooped up inside, it's like biting people. It's like, right, how different are we? Let's end on, um, psychedelics. Let's end on this incredible research we're starting to see. PTSD, incurable depression, or supposedly incurable depression. At Stanford, I have a friend who's doing incredible work, um, uh, uh, in, um, uh, ketamine drips specifically for people with like incurable cancer, incurable depression.

Depression, yeah.

It's very severe. And, and they will have 2 weeks of like, uh, incredible— these are people who would, you know, 20 years depressed, and then they have 2 amazing weeks or 6 months. Nobody knows. Like, it's like a— it could go either way. Um, and then ibogaine and all these stories of people with PTSD coming back from wars, they take ibogaine, they tell me— I have a couple friends who did it— they said, oh, my entire hard drive got refragmented.

And yeah, I'm—

for some reason I'm not thinking about these horrible things that I witnessed in my life or I experienced. But then on the other side, a lot of biohackers with, you know, ketamine prescriptions of unknown origin.

Yeah, that's not good.

And I'm like, I literally had a couple friends and I'm like, hey, you're taking ketamine on a Tuesday while watching Netflix and you're—

yeah, like, why?

Yeah, what is this about? And it's like, I'm bored. And I'm like, you're bored and you're scrambling your brain for no reason? Like, if—

Yeah.

So, so how do you think the United States should look at that class of compounds? And then what's the right modality if people were interested in understanding or learning more about them? And then what's the wrong way?

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely not a functional health question. And we don't— functional health, we don't really—

You've talked about it on your pod.

But as a doctor talking about this, what I would say is that we're undergoing a phenomenal revolution in psychiatry that's really two-pronged. One is this nutritional metabolic psychiatry, and the other is psychedelic psychiatry. And I think we need more data, we need more investment. And I thank God Texas is putting up a bunch of money, the US government is putting a bunch of money. I think this is all a good thing. And the data, early data is promising around psilocybin, around MDMA, around ibogaine. We just need more data and it's not ready for primetime yet. It's not ready for expansion to the population as a whole. I think there are people doing it underground, but I think it really should be done carefully, rigorously, and scientifically. And I think we will see that these compounds probably are doing things that involve repair of the brain, the neuroplasticity. You know, I've seen reports of, you know, MRI scans improving from brain trauma with ibogaine, for example. These are doing some really remarkable things that are just not just symptomatic treatment. They're literally, like you said, almost defragging or rewriting the software code in your brain. And, and I think it's really exciting because nothing like this has come up in psychiatry ever.

So, I mean, and if given the choice, you know, if we as a society are going to look at this you know, you got people who are suffering and they take the route of opioids. And man, the, the doctor class had a big part in that, right? Like, you can just take a higher dosage of Percocet or, or OxyContin. Like, they just seem to be obsessed with that pain relief. Um, and then people do street drugs, fentanyl, whatever. They try to like fix whatever's wrong with them. And then you have this like middle part, SSRIs and anti-anxiety.

Yeah.

And let's hop you up. And then you have this third option, I— or these third and fourth option, your health, your diet, and then psychedelics. Like, these two seem to be the last two, the place where we can really think as a society of investing in research and, and really, you know, looking at that as potential modalities. This is my personal feeling.

No, I agree. I think, I think we're in this— we're in quite an exciting era. I think medicine's changing as a whole. I think function is at the forefront of that. I think psychiatry is changing. I It's it's a good it's a good moment. I think it's a good moment.

Yeah, perfect spot for us to end. You got to go on your bike ride, and your time is valuable. Functionhealth.com, everybody. Functionhealth.com. Go to functionhealth.com. Sign up. Get your blood work done, and yeah, get get get it dialed in. Take control of your health. There you go, folks. An hour with Dr. Mark Hyman. I got a couple of personal questions, and I'm good. Got my free consultation with my new concierge doctor. I do have a mole out here. What should I do? You know, my shoulder— I did a BPC from 157 over here. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time.

Bye. All right.