Episode 456: From Skeptic to Advocate—Dr. Dana Lillestol’s Mission to Empower Seniors with Cannabis

Welcome to Cannabis Health Radio, where we share powerful real life stories from people around the world who are using cannabis as medicine. The goal of this podcast is to raise awareness of the healing potential of cannabis and is not intended as medical advice. And now, here's your host, Ian Jessup.

Foreign welcome to Cannabis Health Radio. I'm Ian Jessup. Before we get to our guests, I just want to say that over the years, Cannabis Health Radio has shared over 450 life changing stories. Testimonies of people who found hope when nothing else worked. These are real voices. Cancer survivors, parents, veterans, chronic warriors. People just like you and me, using cannabis to reclaim their health and their lives. But here's the truth. Producing this podcast costs money. And in recent months, donations have dwindled to the point where we're questioning how long we can keep going. We don't accept advertising. We don't push products for profit. Why? Because your trust matters more. But that also means we rely 100% on you, our listeners, to help cover our basic costs. If you've ever listened to an episode and thought this needs to be heard, we're asking you now. Please help us continue. Whether it's a one time donation or a small monthly gift, your support keeps the mic on and the stories flowing. Even $5 a month makes a difference. Visit our website cannabushealthradio.com and click the donate button. And we thank you. Well, today in Cannabis Health Radio, we're honored to welcome a guest whose journey is a testament to open minded transformation and compassionate care. Dr. Dana Lillestal spent decades in medical world as a nurse practitioner, guided by a commitment to science and patient centered wellness. Now retired from clinical practice, she's become a leading voice for cannabis education, especially for older adults navigating chronic conditions and seeking natural relief. From skepticism to advocacy, Dana's path has led her to found Life is Chill, an initiative in Arizona that offers seniors not just information, but empowerment through personalized education and even dispensary tours designed to remove fear and build confidence. Dana, thanks for joining us. We appreciate it.

It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Ian.

Dana, when you were a nurse, did you ever think that you'd get into the cannabis business and start advocating for cannabis?

Never. Because I also did addiction medicine.

Oh.

I medically detoxed heroin addicts, crystal meth, marijuana, alcohol. I saw marijuana as a gateway drug. And so when the hospital that I was working in went bankrupt, that doorway closed. And once I changed and I changed from regular practice to more of a holistic practice, Related to personal health issues. But once I closed my doors, I had a patient that said I wanted to do a dispensary. Would you work for me? And I go, well, let me look into it. And I said, I have a PhD, start researching. And when I saw that they lied to us, I was furious. And I said, this is a plant. I love plants. And then I started the research and I haven't looked back.

Yeah, it's interesting, the transformation that people have once they realize that we've been lied to for hundred years and how cannabis has been used throughout the centuries to help people. And in the United States, it wasn't it prior to the 1920s, it was one of the most prescribed medications. And you got to ask yourself, how many doctors today realize that we have an endocannabinoid system?

They don't unless they have an interest in cannabis.

You're right. When you started changing your attitude toward cannabis and you became an advocate, what did some of your friends and former colleagues say about that?

Well, they already had called me a voodoo doctor, my colleagues, because I was also a professor at Arizona State University and I did functional medicine. So I found the root cause. I changed your physiology using nutraceuticals and I systematically removed your pharmaceuticals as I could. So I was already kind of a weird person in that arena because I challenged the status quo. I couldn't. Dr. In a way that was band aiding. I had to try and really look at the picture and if I could fix it to some level.

What are some of the most common health concerns you hear from the elderly regarding cannabis?

Health concerns that they want to use it for or health concerns that they are scared of it?

Let's do both.

Okay. Health concerns, they want to use it. They're sick and tired of all the pills and the side effects. They have chronic pain and their opioids are constipating them and making them confused. They're having erratic sleep patterns and never waking rested. They're anxious, they're restless, they're isolated. And it just takes the joy out of living and showing up.

When you recommend cannabis to them, what are some of their. What's some of the feedback you get?

Well, that's a wonderful question. I just talked about the non intoxicating substances of the cannabis plant in the 55 + community. And then I took them on a bus tour and one of the ladies couldn't stop talking because she had a frozen shoulder. Not quite frozen, but like a torn rotator cuff. And she said, oh my gosh, you know what I did. I know. What did you do? She says, I went and bought this cream and it's in my purse. It's CBD and cbg. And I just put it on my shoulder and look. She goes, I can move my shoulder now. This is just amazing. And then I was going on vacation, but I was going to visit my brother in Wisconsin. And I'm like, can I take this? And you know, it's CBD and cbg. She just put it in her purse, a little thing, and everything went fine. And she's like, it's changed my life. So if you can expose them, show them how you can help a problem in their life currently going on and not make them high, you have a loyal customer that won't even be quiet. They're so excited.

You know, when we started doing this podcast, one of the issues that people talk about when they use cannabis, they don't want to get high, which is what you mentioned. And some of the people we've interviewed have had very serious life threatening issues. And there was a fellow in Germany that we talked to who helped cannabis patients, and he says, do you want to get high or do you want to die? And that really is a demarcation point. And it just baffles me that people will take pharmaceuticals by the dozens, but they won't try cannabis.

It's the social programming. So we've been programmed to give our power away and to implicitly believe that medical professional. And if we deviate, we're judged. So it's risky to wake up and listen to the truth. And when you do, you're judged, you're ostracized. And so that's why I'm not only going in and talking to communities, I'm trying to create cannabis support groups where they can openly talk about their journey of cannabis and wellness and how it's changing their aging experience.

What does cannabis do to uniquely support the aging body?

Oh, wow. So let's just start with the sleep issue. So that's our, you know, sleep is our greatest anti aging tool. And it's very fragmented in over 50% of people older than 65 years of age. So one way that we can help that is using a cannabinoid, a molecule or substance from the cannabis plant called C cbn. And CBN is mildly psychoactive, but it works like a Valium. It's highly sedative, and it will keep the monkey hyperactive brain sleeping. Not only that, but it preserves memory and it's stopping the progression of Lewy bodies or the worsening of Alzheimer's. So it's a win win. It has a little psychoactivity because it's when the THC flower gets exposed to light and air or ages, it turns into cbn. So sleep is a big issue. Pain is a big issue in their hands, in their backs, in their knees.

And so, my God, when you're over 55, pain hits almost everybody, doesn't it?

Yeah. And so CBG can have a bigger all. I can't live without it because it's really good for anxiety, which I have. But. But it's amazing for peripheral neuropathy for burning nerve pain where you can't feel the bottom of your feet. Some people's feet are starting to wake up a little and it stops that dagger. And so I'm meeting with peripheral neuropathy groups and they're starting to take liquid tincture, CBG under the tongue and they're dosing it very slow and low. It's not psychoactive, won't make you high. It'll work on the pain, it'll work on gut issues, it'll work on glaucoma, high eye pressure, It'll work on anxiety. So you're getting so much for your bang, for your buck. And then, you know, the other place is like fragile, dry, awful, breaking, non healing skin that's itchy and irritable. And we can use like CBC is another non intoxicating cannabinoid or substance that's amazing for skin. It will actually help heal faster. Methicillin resistant staph aureus, which is extremely difficult to get rid of. So we can put that on skin and we could mix it in with things that would be more moisturizing. If we don't want to just put oil. So we can do that. And then just from a mood standpoint, an energy standpoint, you know, we could do a combination of cbd, which is amazing for anxiety, and cbg. And they could do that together. So an elder can age quite gracefully and feel in control of their body and not feel like, oh my gosh, am I going to fall? Oh my gosh, am I going to like, not be able to function or look stupid? Like those things can just go away.

Dana, aging sucks, doesn't it?

Well, yeah. I mean, I had this conversation with my boyfriend who's 14 years older than me, and he. And so we're like, how do we, how do we go about changing this? And I'm like, well, there's a lot of tools. Yeah, but you can only go so fast.

Yeah, I think you earlier on in our conversation, you mentioned something really, really valuable. I think it's the social conditioning that we've had around cannabis. And whenever anyone talks about it, it's always about smoking. It has nothing to do with healing. It's always about smoking cannabis and getting high. And I think, Jesus Christ, there's more to this plant than that.

So you bring up something that is an issue for me. Huge. And because I'm an educator, we're going to put on a modern elder Cannabis Education Conference December 9th here in Phoenix and we're going to spoil the Moratan and I'm going to have breakout rooms all over where they can learn things that are very practical, like how to make a tincture with cannabis so you can put it in your, your, your drinks or how to make a salve for your brown spots or your, your face that's so dry with cannabis or like edibles in this room. And over here we're gonna learn how does it interface with my medications, looking at drug Rx and over here, you know, and then I have a stage with experts. I mean, it's gonna be dynamic, but we've got to get them together. We have to create that sense of excitement and community. And it's hard. We're learning as we go at Life is Chill because like we just had a bus tour and all of a sudden no one wanted their pictures taken. And the activity director was like, I can't have the bus with our logo and our community name. And then all of a sudden it hit me, oh my gosh, the stigma is so alive. She's protecting the brand. She doesn't want the public to associate this 55+ community with cannabis. And I'm like, note to self, I need to be more respectful and understanding. And then when I got that, I went, oh, okay, totally, we'll never take a picture of that, you know. But once we got in the dispensary and the elders were just, they fed us lunch. They were all congregating around one bud tender asking a thousand questions. All of a sudden they didn't care if their picture was being taken because we were looking at all this product and it was so exciting. And we were talking about possibilities for this lady's problem, that gal's problem, this gentleman. And it was a whole different dynamic, but it's just a slow process of awareness and waking up.

Yeah, your story is very interesting because when Corey and I started restarting this podcast after a two year break, we were looking for places to record and this woman offered her place and she said, what's the podcast about? And I said, medical cannabis. And the next day she said, I can't have anyone talking about cannabis in my facility. And we thought, okay, that's it. I know, it's just. Do you find that the younger generation has more favorable opinion of cannabis than the older generation?

Yes, because they haven't been taught to not question authority and not to do research. It's a whole different genre. But here's the deal. They know how to age gracefully with all these tools. But our modern elder right now is clueless and hurting. It's a silent epidemic in front of our face that no one's addressing. And we stand on the giant, their shoulders. They're giants. So it's our turn.

What about the 60s, the baby boomers of the 60s? Sex, drugs and rock and roll? I mean, I can recall when LSD was legal and Timothy Leary was promoting that.

So it depends what avenue you went down. So if you were from a very open and progressive family that used cannabis and talked about it and great. But if you were a conservative religious family, it was pooh, poohed. If you went into a profession where, oh, my gosh, no, you can't. Then people stayed away, even if they tried it in their teen years. So a lot of those baby boomers changed their tunes and were kind of. Oh, and if they went into law enforcement. Yeah. Or like child protective service, like those kind of things. Oh, yeah. So I think it's an individual journey, and some people are more open and other people are not from a control standpoint.

You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. I mean, we found that during COVID didn't we?

Yes.

I mean, people just followed what they were told. And I think, you know, in my background, I always, you know, I was a reporter for years. I was always felt that you should question authority. Always question authority. And I see the media today when they talk about cannabis and some of the scientific studies, alleged studies that come out saying, quoting all this medical nonsense about how harmful cannabis is, I think, Jesus, have you ever done any research? And probably the answer is no. We have people in the medical community say, well, there needs to be more research. Well, there are tens of thousands of studies on cannabis. Ethan Russo in Washington state, we interviewed him a number of years ago, and this was, oh, probably nine years ago. And he said, there are over 10,000 studies that was at that time. But people still believe somehow that this plant is dangerous. But you can go out, you can get drunk, you can drink alcohol till you can buy it. In the grocery stores, Right?

Yeah. You take your opioid with your martini and go back to work. But God forbid you took a vape hit.

I know that's right.

That's why I start with the history in any talk. Because they need to know how long this plant has been with us and how it circumnavigated the globe with the explorers. So. And when they hear the history that it was in the American Pharmacopoeia and it was known as cannabis, not marijuana, and then how the legislation occurred and the racist slur that happened, then they're like, oh, so there's a little bit more readiness and openness to listen.

Yeah. Tell us about Life is chill. How did that come about?

Well, so I'm probably the newest individual. We're a very small company of only eight employees with two PhDs. So it's connected to a bioscientific company. Yeah. And we're doing liposomal nanotechnology. So small molecules, nano technology, so it's easy for the body to absorb. Liposomal. We're wrapping whatever, whether it's the CBG or the thc in a molecule that you and I already make called phosphatidylcholine. So when it goes in the body, the body goes well. Hi, welcome. Come on in and play.

Yeah.

And the beauty of it is it's bypassing the gut. It goes right into the bloodstream. And my doctoral work is around gut physiology. So it's. A lot of us have bad tummies, you know, and so if we can get it in the body quicker, it's far more effective.

Now, tell us about the cannabis tours that you do, the dispensary tours. That must be quite fascinating for someone who's never been in a dispensary.

It really is. So I have to prepare them just for the environment. After I give them a lecture about the plant and a big overview of the health benefits, the endocannabinoid system. But then I talk about how bright it is, how loud it is, there's lots of music, and then how colorful it is. There's all these neon wrappers and everywhere. There's just so much to look at. And the walls, floor to ceiling, have product. And I take them to tours where they can maneuver with their wheelchairs, their scooters, and their walkers. And then they have been so amazing at the dispensaries to have another area just to sit and kind of like, question answers. People are shopping and taking their time. So it's really been a positive experience. And the Last tour, we did the activity director who said, please don't film the van. She couldn't stop smiling ear to earth. And she got off the bus and she goes, dana, we want you back to talk, and we want another tour. And I'm like, oh, okay, wonderful. So it's really. It's a process of exposure and just being present and just loving them where they're at and not judging them because they're waking up and it's slow, and they believe so deeply.

You know, I believe there are two aspects to getting people more aware of cannabis. One is education, and the second one is stories. People who have used cannabis to help themselves. You referred earlier to the woman with the shoulder problem. Tell us some of the other stories that people have told you about the use of cannabis.

So I always have a cancer patient at all of my talks. These are two gentlemen right now with four stage cancer that are thriving because they're on cannabis. And so, you know, I'm one voice, but it's better to have another voice. The other voice is my mother. My mother's 93. All of a sudden, she developed a kidney stone. And I go, mom, I don't want to go to the er. They're so mean. They hate cannabis. We're lying. You wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for cannabis. And then we freeze. Can we just hunker here and pass the kidney stone? We just developed a fully THC liposomal liquid that you put as a beverage enhancer. So mom takes her coconut water. One pump is 2 milligrams. She says, okay, let's just hunker here at home. She passed the kidney stone at home. And I say, how you doing, Mom? I'm happy. I'm like, good. Okay, where's the pain? On a scale of 0 to 10? It was a 10. Oh, now, is it still? It's an 8. Okay, so let's do another pump. And it worked. So the scoop is they don't want to be high, but they don't want to be in pain. And when you have that much pain, the product is going to go to the chaos in the body. So you won't be as high, but pain is real.

Yeah. We've interviewed most of our interviews. I would say the majority of them are with people who have suffered with cancer, and some of them were given four to six months to live. They started taking this regimen of cannabis, and some of them went whole hog, took a gram a day, whether it was orally or by a suppository. Which doesn't get you high. And their cancer was cleared?

Yes.

And they go back to their doctor and their doctor just puts up his or her hands and, you know, they can't talk about it. They won't even acknowledge it.

I know I have a terrible story.

Okay.

So I have a side gig where I'm assisting mostly cancer patients. Okay. Separate from life is chill. And they're aware of it. So I had a gentleman with four stage brain cancer who was being treated at a very well known medical establishment in the Midwest, which will go unnamed. He was seeing an oncologist. He had a home in Arizona and a home there. So he had heard about me through grassroots. So we started doing the suppositories and I go to homes and teach them. Well. He went, I said, you have to keep it going. And then he tells me my cancer's gone. All gone. And so this clinic, they just wouldn't acknowledge it. And he was so mad that he wanted to write a letter and tell them, but his wife is in the medical industry and so is his daughter. And they said, if you do that, you're going to disrupt the apple cart. And so I said, just write it for yourself. And he shared it with me. He never sent it. But here's the thing. You need to keep cannabis going even after it's cleared, because this gentleman, he quit it. And then six months later he's calling me and saying, it's back. It's different this time. It's operable, but I want to put something in place. And I said, okay, let's do it. So, yeah, so we did and they took care of it. And he continues with that protocol. So it's. It's a godsend. And now we're making Rick Simpson oil in gelatin capsules at Life is Chill for that very reason. Because some people want to do it in a capsule form. They can. We've got, we're rolling out a recreational and a medical. But my option, I mean, I'd like the other option. And I even wrote an article on it for the lay public. The beauty of backdoor medicine. And I said, I signed off to your health. Up yours, Dr. Dana. Because I just have to make fun of it because it's an uncomfortable topic.

Yeah.

But it's an amazing delivery orifice.

Yeah, I know when you tell people about it, they say, oh, God, I can't do that. It's very interesting what you say. What would you say has surprised you most about your work with seniors in cannabis?

Well, I'm going To go from a negative perspective. First, it's the inertia that they. That they're not even moving. It's the stigma and it's the silence. They've been excluded from the dialogue because we've gone so heavy recreational and we lost our foundation of medical. So that's why at life is chill. We're resurrecting that. We're starting a modern elder cannabis education. Evolution. That's the bad side. The good side is when they take it and they see the benefit, it's life changing and they can't be quiet. And I don't want them to. They start a ripple effect in their community and rubbing off on their doctor. And some of these doctors are now saying, I'm hearing a lot more positive information about marijuana. You just keep taking that so that it. It's like a ripple effect, but it's not going fast enough. But it's moving. So I have to celebrate that.

Yeah. A couple of months before Corey passed in February of this year, we always used to get together for coffee and we talk every week. And she would. She phoned me up a couple of months before that. She said she has, I think it was four oncologists who are talking to her about cannabis. But they want to keep quiet about it. And I thought, isn't that interesting? They will promote chemotherapy, but for themselves, when they have an issue with cancer, they want to try cannabis. Don't you find that rather odd?

No, because they'll lose their medical license and their life will become very unmanageable.

Yeah.

If they're. If okay. And it is what it is. And I realized that. I hate to say this, but I felt like a prisoner. They were telling me how to practice, and I'm like, I'm a healer. I know what I'm doing here, and I'm making progress. And I don't want to see. Aging isn't a diagnosis. But you think it is, because look at how many medications our elders are on. You know, it's just. It just grabs my heart and makes it so sad.

Dana, what do you say to seniors who are cannabis curious but hesitant to take the first step?

Slow and low. Okay. Always slow and low. And that you never go into a smoke shop.

You.

You go to a reputable dispensary and you consult individuals who know what is going on, because it's a different animal than it was present when you were a teenager. And you need to be on it 90 days. Only one product to really see what it does in your body. And Then I'm a phone call away to them. So if they have a question, it's not stupid or a concern, give me a call. I can hold your hand and walk you through it because I want a positive experience, not a negative one first time out.

Dana, if you had a chance to speak to every health care provider, what would you tell them about cannabis and geriatric care?

It gives the power back to the patient. It allows them to change the current dysfunction and angst that robs them of showing up in life and enjoying the people that they love right in front of them. And you know, how dare us? We've taken away something that has given to us in a plant for our wellness, our wellspan, not our disease span.

Yep. Where do you see cannabis in the next five to 10 years in the United States?

I see it becoming far more medical and I see it more being embraced by the older generation. Who's going to say, enough, I've had enough and I am at my wit's end. What do I have to lose? I'm going to try this plant. So I believe that. But I also believe that the research is increasing and the dialogue is increasing and we're going to see far more openness with the normal medical establishment so that there'll be less stigma and more positivity. Slow. But I think it's coming and will be much more.

Dana, do you deal with only with people in Arizona or out of state as well.

Oh, it's all over.

All over, yeah. And how do people get in touch with you?

It's danaifeischill.com and they can go to lifeischill.com I have a podcast there. I mean interviews. I have some blogs going, so yeah, they can reach me through my email. Danaifeischill.com Great.

And if you want to send anyone our way, we can interview them. We'd love to do that.

Oh, I can send you a lot.

Yeah, well, you know, the majority of our listeners are in the US So we'd like to interview more people in the US that would be great. I'd appreciate it.

Sure.

Great.

Yeah, you got it.

Thanks for this. It was great to talk to you. Very informative.

Yeah, well, thank you. It was wonderful as well at my end. Nice to meet both of you.

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Sa.