Episode 458: Stage 4 Breast Cancer, Drug Testing and the Fight for Access to Cannabis Medicine

Welcome to Cannabis Health Radio where we share powerful real life stories from people around the world who are using cannabis as medicine. The goal of this podcast is to raise awareness of the healing potential of cannabis and is not intended as medical advice. And now, here's your host, Ian Jessup.

Foreign.

Welcome to the Cannabis Health Radio podcast. I'm Ian Jessup. Our guest today is currently living with stage four breast cancer that has metastasized. Her journey has been marked by many challenges, including a shift in her medical support system and difficult choices around her treatment options. Like so many others, she discovered the potential benefits of cannabis medicine only after her diagnosis and the loss of subsidized care. Despite the hurdles, especially having to stop cannabis periodically due to employment related drug testing, she's found value and hope in what cannabis can offer and she wishes to remain anonymous and we always respect that. So we're referring to our guest today as Ellis. Ellis, thanks very much for doing this. Tell us about your health prior to your diagnosis. What was it like?

My health was pretty, pretty steady. I, I kept working. I, I mean, I was basically like a pescatarian and that was my way of kind of, you know, mitigating the health challenges that my parents faced. And I figured, you know, since I didn't take on the habits that my parents had, that I was kind of shielding myself as, as I would, I would put it. So I wasn't really thinking of, I didn't really have that many health challenges except for some reproductive challenges earlier on in life. And after, in 2018, I got a partial hysterectomy where I chose to keep my ovaries thinking, you know, well, I guess the hormones have to keep going. I'm still kind of young. And that was, that was that. And I didn't really think anything of it. I didn't, hadn't really had very many health, you know, major health problems. And I figured, you know, I get, you know, as long as that would continue, that would be great. But in, in the end of 2023, it actually really started around the pandemic, I would say. I was working in a lab and since I'm working in the healthcare industry, that's why I have to remain anonymous due to drug testing and so forth. And I was working in a lab and I was getting a lot of problems with my right arm, and that is the arm that I use to move the machine, which is my main tool for doing my job.

Constant motion of the arm.

Yes. You basically turn a wheel about 3,000 times a day.

Wow.

Yeah. Depending on the volume of the workload of the lab, you have, you know, you need your upper body to work.

Yeah.

And I was getting a lot of, you know, inflammation, and I could really feel that I really needed to do something about it. But I have kind of like a travel job where I go to different labs for certain periods of time. And the insurance that I have only works when I'm on assignment. And if it's a shift that basically is, let's say 9 to 5, then it's hard to go to get extensive testing done when you're on assignment. And so I kind of buried my head in the sand. I'm, you know, I'm just going to put it out there. And I just waited until the end of the assignment, which was fine. So in the, in the beginning of 2024, I went to go get a mammogram just to have somewhere to start. And they found, they found several, several things that were very alarming to them. And I, I thought first that it was mastitis, which is, you know, a condition where, you know, if you hadn't had babies or something like that, your, you know, breasts, you know, they were able to get inflamed or something like that because it was, you know, it was affecting my, you know, my whole armpit area. And I figured, okay, it shouldn't be anything major. And then when the, when the doctor came in and says you have to do a biopsy, we think it's cancer. And I work in the same type of field where I, you know, I, I cut the specimens where, where the doctor is diagnosed that it's cancer or not. And so the biggest issue is I got, I got a real wake up call. And what was it like?

What was it like, Alice, when he said that to you, what. What was it like? Emotionally?

It, it was like a slap in the face. I. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie. It was just like, what? No, no, no, no. This is, this is mastitis. It. No, it can't be any. You know, it just hurts a little bit. Not the end of the world, you know, and, yeah, it threw me for a loop. But I did end up getting a biopsy pretty quickly. And the doctor took, it was a surgeon, they took about five different samples, and it got diagnosed. And it turned out I was stage four. I had stage four breast cancer with metastasis on both axillary regions, which is the armpit areas on both sides, but mainly on the right side. And I found out later, about a month later, after you know, other testing that it had spread also to parts of my collarbone, my, what is it called, the back part of the, the back part of the shoulder and part of my rib on my right side and then possibly part of my lower spine. But it was inconclusive. So they're just, you know, lumping it all into one that was just, that was hard to deal with. I'm definitely not going to lie about that. I, I just, I took time off. I, I did my best to grieve. I did, I tried to weigh my options. I did go to see an oncologist and he suggested two medications they would not. The breast surgeon that had originally done the biopsy refused to operate on me. She said that it wouldn't do any good. There was no way to take out the tumor because it was all over the place. And so I had, I had the idea that maybe I can go to my birth country, which is in northern Europe, to get other treatment options because it's subsidized health care. And my sister invited me to go stay with her while I was figuring out what to do. And that would at least, you know, give her more time away or more time with me because, you know, she also. We were all basically just preparing because my oncologist said that if you don't take this medication, you have a couple of years at most. And I spent first before I went back to, before I went back to my birth country. I did spend a few months on alternative treatments. I did ozone therapy, high dose B vitamin therapy. I didn't know if it was working. There was no way to check. And since I was not on healthcare here in the United States, I would have had to pay out of pocket for all the testing, which I didn't have enough money because the alternative treatments were basically eating up my budget. And so I went back to my birth country and it took, took a month or two because they don't just let you in the country, you know, into their healthcare system when you've been gone for a long, you know, many years. So you, you had to wait. So, you know, when I finally got, got into the healthcare system, they basically mirrored the same treatment option that my oncologist had given me in the US which was hormone therapy, no surgery, because they also said it's not going to help, it's not going to cure you. And I said, well, I don't, I'm not expecting a cure. I know, you know, it's in three different places, but at least you can get out the primary tumor and they said no. So one of the hormone treatments was supposed to be costing US$15,000 a month for the rest of my life.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. And that was one of the reasons why I went back to my birth country because I couldn't afford it, obviously.

And I mean, you'd have to be a millionaire to afford that.

Yeah, right.

And for the rest of your life.

I, I couldn't even, I couldn't even afford. I couldn't even afford. I count. I, I did the math. I couldn't even afford a quarter of a pill of a month supply, much less month after month after year after year. It just, you know, like who, who, who sets these, these prices up? I mean, it's, it's not so in, in my birth country, they have subsidized health care. So for, give or take about US$300, I was given a five month supply while I was still, you know, living there. And it worked for a while.

You got, for $300, you got a five month supply which would have cost $15,000 in the States.

$15,000 a month.

A month.

Five boxes. So 15,000 times five.

Yeah. So that's $75,000.

Yes. And that was only for five months.

But you got it for 300 bucks.

Yes.

Yeah, it's, the pricing is just insane, isn't it?

It's insane. Yeah. And there, it would have actually cost them about $2,000 US a month. So they're pricing $2,000 compared to $15,000 a month. Obviously different countries are getting completely different price pictures compared to US healthcare. But I digress. That's a completely different subject.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, it was, it was crazy. And I was looking into cannabis, but I knew that in my birth country, you know, it was not one of the European countries that allowed that. And I figured, okay, I have to go back to work somehow. And I couldn't work in my, in my birth country because I wasn't certified there. You had to have a lot more education in order to even, even be, you know, allowed to do the same thing I did. So I figured, okay, I, I made the decision to go back to the US and I looked up, I had known about your podcast before through Corey Yelland, God rest her soul. And I had followed your podcasts and you know, in the back of my mind I was thinking, okay, let me try and do the treatments that are afforded to me to begin with and see how they work. And they did work. It shrunk the primary tumor up to about half. And that was great. But When I told them that I, in back in my birth country, when I told them that I was needing to go back to the US to work because I couldn't afford to keep living without having to work, um, they said, well, as long as you're not living here, we can't extend you health care. So they sent me off with three more months of, of care, of, of medication, and then that was it. And I, you know, I, my, my next move was cannabis. And so I, I got, with my contacts in my friend, my circle of friends, so to speak, because I'm in a state where you can't, you can't have that. And so I got four different strains just like you and Corey had been. Had been talking about. And I made my own full extract cannabis oil.

Good for you.

Thank you. It was the best option for me due to the fact that, you know, I really, I didn't have a job at that point. So, you know, this was like my Hail Mary.

Yeah.

And I started taking it. I did go to another state where it was where recreational cannabis was allowed, and I stayed there for about eight months. And while I was there working, I was able to take the oil at night before I went to sleep. And I also did the suppositories at night, which I made my own as well. And I got up to, about, after about a month and a half, I got up to about a gram in total between the suppository and the oil. And it definitely helped. Sure, it made me a little bit tired, but I was still lucid in the, in the, I was still more than lucid in the daytime, so I was able to do my job. There wasn't any interruption care and so forth, but given that I only work on assignment, my assignment was up and so I had to go back to my, my home state where not allowed. And so while, while waiting for a new assignment, you basically have to be 30 days out before you are, you know, you have. Because I, I have to do drug tests before I get a new assignment. And so I have, I have to be constantly ready to take a drug test. And that means that I have to pause my, my cannabis treatment in between, you know, assignments. So.

God, that's.

I do other things. Yeah, it is, it is. Because, you know, you are basically thinking that this is, this is my life. This is, you know, gonna, you know, this is going to impact, you know, my mortality. I mean, it. There's. I'm, I'm, I'm completely sold on cannabis. But in order for me to Work. I still have to, you know, follow all my protocols in order to be able to keep my job.

Yeah. What is the balance? What is the state of your cancer today?

It's still stage four. I'm pretty sure it's going to keep being stage four, but thankfully I'm not in any pain. I do several different other things as part of my cancer management protocol, and I take the least amount of cancer medication that I can. There's one cancer medication that I can afford which is one of the staples of cancer, hormonal cancer treatment protocols that they have. So I'm, you know, I'm able to afford that with my job. But the, the most expensive treatment that is the one that's, you know, that's supposed to do all the magic and so forth, that's the one that I can't afford.

So I just don't take Alice, how do you deal with this, with your situation, psychologically and emotionally?

It's. Some days are better than others.

Yeah, it's got to be tough.

It is tough. I have, I have my friends, I have my siblings. You know, we talk things out. There are days that are better than others, definitely. I go to a cancer support group, which helps a lot. You know, we discuss different options. We discuss just the days that we're having. We discuss basically everything and then some. And there are just so many people out there that are doing the traditional treatments and they're coming back, especially chemo and radiation, which was two of the things that I had researched before since I'm in the field. And the statistics are just mind boggling. They're mind boggling in terms of low, low success rates, I would say, especially when it comes to. Doesn't really matter what kind of cancer you have. You know, if you do either chemo or radiation, there's a lot bigger risk that it will come back. And so my mindset is on doing as much as I can with cannabis in order to not have to resort to that. And it hasn't even been offered to me because they feel that it's basically a waste of time because it's not going to help.

Yeah, There was a study that came out, I think around 20 years ago in the early 2000s that was done in the US and Australia about chemotherapy and showing that the success rate is between 3 and 5%. 3 and 5%. And you know, and I see people who, and it's up to the individual what treatment they, they want to choose to have. And, But I see people who have gone the chemo route and they've gone on cannabis, they've been very successful. And we've actually interviewed people who have done this and their family is opposed to cannabis. So they go off it and they go back to chemo and it's unsuccessful and they die. And it's very, very sad. And I think you have another story about you had basil cell carcinoma on the forehead, right?

Yes.

When did that happen?

That was actually diagnosed in, I would say the spring of 2022, I would say. And that was in another state that I was working that actually did have recreational cannabis. But I didn't even realize that you could use rso, which is another form of full extract cannabis oil to treat it. And so I went the traditional route and I had to do the so called Mohs procedure on my forehead where they took, they took enough tissue to make a round circle about the size of my thumb and then they closed it up in sort of kind of like an eye looking fashion. And had I known that I could, that I could treat it with that because it was, it was honestly the size of like, you know, like a little birthmark, basically. And they took so much more than they needed. And I mean, I've seen, given that I work in the same field, I've seen biopsies that are as big as your hand, like the circumference of your fists, that they take out of people's cheeks, that they take out of people's everywhere. You know, name a body part and I mean, they will just dissect just because they need to make sure that they get the margins of the cancer. And thankfully it was basal cell, which doesn't. It's not supposed to, it's not supposed to spread. It's not like melanoma. So there's a 99% cure rate when you grab it surgically. But had I, had I known, I would have been able to skip basically five or six months of healing time and, you know, and a scar and, you know, not have to think about, you know, my. One side of my face looks higher than the other and, you know, all that, all that good stuff. So actually on the video precursor.

Yeah, on the video here, I can't even notice it.

No, they did a very good job. It's just, it's just a very light streak. But yeah, there are some issues with trying to, you know, I am a woman trying to apply makeup and trying to get the eyebrows looking that, you know, you're not a comical character from some kind of cartoon. But, you know, you do what you can, you know, the vanity aside, I'm, you know, I don't need to think about that cancer, at least so.

Well, I've told this on another podcast, but I'll repeat it because your. Your basil cell on your forehead, which was interesting because In February of 2024, I had this kind of growth in my forehead. My wife was. Kept looking at it and kept looking at it, and it. It looked awkward. And so I was having coffee with Corey one day and I showed her, and she took a picture. She said, that looks like melanoma. And so she sent the picture to other people, people in Europe and people in the US and they all said it was melanoma. And I was asked, are you going to the doctor? I said, no, I'm not going to go to a doctor because the doctor will want to start cutting it. Yes. And I don't want that. And so I was gifted, actually, some cannabis oil. And the fellow who gifted it to me said, it'll get worse before it gets better. And it did. And I had one spot, went to three, and then one down here on just my forehead. And I applied cannabis oil on it every day, twice a day. And after a couple of months, it started to get smaller and smaller and smaller, and then it disappeared. With the exception of one spot, there was one spot that just was very, very stubborn. And the cannabis oil wouldn't work, Frankincense oil wouldn't work. And we tried everything. And my wife went to the drugstore and got some antifungal cream, put some antifungal cream on it. In two weeks, it was gone.

Oh, wow.

And but you know what? During that period when I had that, it was kind of a dark period for me because I started to think of dying. And, I mean, you've gone through that, right?

Oh, yes. And I've had the entire conversation with my. With my siblings because they're the ones that are left of who gets what once I. Once I pass, what. What to do with, you know, what to do with everything, how they're going to, you know, maneuver, you know, what, you know, how I want to be, like, do I want to be cremated? You know, all the nitty gritty of, like, not wanting to deal with that type of a situation.

And it's just.

It is heart wrenching, and it definitely makes you very humble, very humble to be alive.

And you certainly get a different appreciation for things in life, don't you?

Yes. Yes, you do. And you wait when, you know, you kind of start to know if you don't already start to seek a higher power if you haven't already. And me being able to pray every single day is part of my protocol and it's, it's basically what keeps me on an even keel on my good days and it's basically what pulls me off the ledge on other days. Yeah, it's just I wouldn't have been able to get where I am without it. And I just, it's part of me and there is a higher power and it's not going, you know, it's, you know, unless you have a, you know, if you have a miracle, that's great, but it's probably not going to be what is going to cure you. You need a multifaceted approach when you've gotten cancer and you need to look, you need to look hard at your life and see what it is that you're doing and what you can improve upon. And I, you know, stress was one of the biggest things that I had just dug my head in the sand about. And they, it's true, they do say that, you know, prior trauma in life is, is one of those major indicators that you may be setting yourself up for cancer if you don't, if you don't try to work through it. And needless to say, there, there's been quite a few bumps in the road in my life and whether I have worked them out or not, that's, you know, that, that's to be, know, to be determined. But I'm working on them and I do realize that they do play a very big role in my future sanity, first and foremost, and also of me being able to cope. Because this may be one of those things where you have a long game. There are stage four breast cancer warriors that have been around for 15 plus years.

Oh, yeah. And I know with your, with you taking cannabis, I know you're going to beat this because we have interviewed dozens and dozens and dozens of women who have had breast cancer, stage four, given months to live, and they have overcome that. They have eradicated, completely eliminated their breast cancer and they're very healthy today. And I think that's what's going to happen to you, and I hope so too. You just have to work around this issue of being drug tested with your job.

Yes, yes. I'm actually thinking I have one more year until, until my pension is vested and then I can find another type of job where they don't do drug testing. Because there are lots of jobs out there that don't do drug testing where I don't need to think about that aspect, and I can focus on my. On my treatment and my healing. So that's my next project, so to speak.

The simple things in life really become important now, don't they?

Yes, yes, they do.

And the rat race really is a rat race. And once you, I mean, I look at it at my age, when I have more years behind me than I do in front of me, and I think, you know, some of the things that used to really piss me off when I was younger, I don't care about them anymore.

Yes, yes. And so many things that are, like keeping with keeping up with the Joneses or, or having to be, you know, tuned in 24 7, that. That just fades away. It really does. It really makes you, you know, if you're really honed in to healing, then you focus on that. There's a very famous cancer warrior, I think her name is Chris Are. She also has a podcast. She has had an incurable cancer with a death rate of about in the 90s, like 90 something, 9 percentile, where she is one of the very few that has survived for 22 something years. And her motto is keep your eyes on your own damn paper. Basically stick with your, you know, focus on your healing, focus on your protocol. You know, don't get distracted by all the noise. Everywhere is. Everywhere you look, there's noise.

Yeah, yeah, you're very true. Alice, what would you say to someone who is somewhat skeptical about cannabis that may want to try it, but is kind of afraid?

I would say give it a chance because I, before I even considered cannabis and before I even, you know, started listening to your podcast, I was so scared about it. I was all into the, you know, the stigma of, of, you know, it's weed and it, you know, as soon as you take a, you know, as soon as you take any, you know, substance, you're, you know, the doors, the door is going to get knocked on by police and it. That's just not the case there. You know, there are so many therapeutic benefits to cannabis and, and so many different ways to heal with it that it is just amazing. And I, my, my wholehearted recommendation is you can be lucid 100% of the day by taking it at night in both suppository form. And I know that kind of freaks people out. But if a doctor, if a, you know, if a traditional doctor tells you, hey, this medication comes in a suppository form and you have to take it, what are you going to do? You're most likely going to take it and not have any qualms about it. So, like, there's really no reason not to. And there are so many tutorials on YouTube that it's just staggering on ways to make it, ways to take it. I wholeheartedly recommend it. So both suppositories and I take it on top of a. I can't take it like on my tongue because the mixture that I make is very tasty. So I put it on top of half a peanut and I put the peanut under my tongue and I let it, you know, sit there for, you know, a few minutes before I just chew it and just let it go down. And that's the easiest way for me to take it. And it's, it's worked so far. It definitely, definitely helps. So I definitely recommend it.

You know, before we started this podcast, you and I were talking and we had chocolate before the podcast. Why don't you put it on a piece of chocolate?

I mean, I could, but unfortunately I'm kind of sensitive to that kind of stuff when I go to bed that I, I can't have caffeine or dark chocolate because then it just. Yeah, it just, I, I can't sleep. So I, I take it on a peanut, you know, that, that works, you know, it. Or, or you can just, you know, put it on, on a cracker or whatever. As long as you can track how much, how much it is that you, that you, you know, are able to take, as in dose and. Yeah, and if, if, you know, if it's too much for you to take internally, then take it as a suppository. You can even take them as a suppository in the back or you can take them, you know, via your, your lady parts. Find a way. Honestly, just find a way because it will help. It definitely will. And I have every confidence that it will help me as well as soon as I can figure out a way to take it without having to take a break from it.

You know, I love your story because I think one day you're going to get the all clear.

I think so too.

I think you've got a great attitude, a great positive attitude, and I wish you all the best in the future. And thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for tuning in. You can find more information and check out all our past episodes@cannabishealthradio.com don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss future episodes and follow us on social media and our Rumble Channel. This podcast is listener supported, so if you've found it helpful, please consider making a donation, big or small, right on our site. And if you know someone who could benefit from this episode, please share it with them. Leaving a quick review also helps others discover us. We really appreciate you being here. Thanks again.

Sa.