Episode 497: Taking Back Control of Chronic Pain

Welcome to Cannabis Health Radio, where we share powerful real-life stories from people around the world who are using cannabis as medicine. The goal of this podcast is to raise awareness of the healing potential of cannabis and is not intended as medical advice. And now, here's your host, Ian Jessop.

Welcome to the Cannabis Health Radio podcast. I'm Ian Jessop. First, a big shout out to Swan Apothecary for supporting Cannabis Health Radio and helping make episodes like this possible. Swan Apothecary isn't just about selling cannabis. They're committed to creating safe, lab-tested products that truly support your wellness, from tinctures and oils to topicals and capsules. Every product is carefully formulated for consistency, potency, and effectiveness. Not sure which product is right for you? Reach out to Swan Apothecary directly. Their knowledgeable team can guide you based on their goals, whether it's easing pain, improving sleep, or supporting overall wellness. To explore their products, go to cannabishealtheradio.com and use the code cannabis health to receive 15% off. Our thanks again to Swan Apothecary because how it's made matters. Now to our guest. For nearly 15 years, our guest today depended on prescription medications to manage chronic pain along with depression, anxiety, and insomnia that often accompanied it. Like many other chronic pain patients, she found herself caught in a cycle of medications and side effects, searching for relief wherever she could find it. Cannabis first entered her life as a way to combat nausea caused by one of her medications, but what she discovered surprised her. Not only did cannabis ease the nausea, it also significantly improved her pain levels, mood, sleep, and overall quality of life. And joining us from Oregon to share her story is Shelley Harmon. Shelley, thanks for doing this. I greatly appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Shelley, tell us about your health before chronic pain became a part of your life.

Well, I was very young before chronic pain became a part of my life. My pain started in my early 30s, so I was a young mother, two sons, a career, just married at, you know, just a few years into marriage, living a life, not really, not just going, going with it. Right. My health was fine.

What caused your chronic pain?

I started having some back pain after the birth of my second child, and it just came to be that it was genetic degenerative disc disease, and I had a disc that was gone and started causing muscle spasms, and I started getting sort of stuck, stuck in bed, stuck on bathroom floors, just really these deep spasms that I couldn't get out of, and I required surgery. So I had that surgery at 30, and I tried something new. It was FDA trial. I had an artificial disc implanted, and that unfortunately failed. And so we did a fusion to fix that, and that was successful, but it caused permanent, permanent nerve damage in my legs. And so I just simply manage chronic pain. Physically, I'm healthy. My back is solid. I have a lot of hardware, but my nerves are damaged in my legs. I explain it like growing pains. I just always have an ache. And so I just live and manage chronic pain.

Jesus, that sucks.

I mean, yes, that's one way to put it.

Oh yeah. I mean, I can't imagine living like that.

Well, it's been a long road. As with anything, you can find blessings in anything. But for me, marijuana has been such a big life-changing plant for me. I grew up, I'm a Gen X baby where pharmaceuticals were all the rage and marijuana was a stoner drug. And I just didn't realize what it could do for the body. And I like to refer to it as cannabis now. Yeah.

And marijuana has such a pejorative term, doesn't it?

I mean, yes.

Yeah. It's like if you drink wine, people call you a wino.

Right, right. Especially my generation, you know. And so kind of, and I can't ever really describe it as well as other people do with all the way it coats your brain and receptors and all that. I can just tell you on pharmaceuticals, it would fix one problem and cause another. And so with one medication came another medication. And I don't, you know, cannabis took that down. There's I haven't had to add anything.

How many medications were you on?

Oh gosh, well, a pain medication and then an antidepressant and anxiety and insomnia and nausea. So at least at one point in time, and then the occasional drug for panic. And it was very, you know, pain is one thing, but then pain becomes everything. Emotionally, internally. And so you just, you just kind of have to readjust your life. And when you're doing it on pharmaceuticals, it's this constant balance of what they're going to cause. And so I think at the highest point I was on about 7 different medications, 5 I was taking daily. Wow.

And you're a young mother with kids.

I know, I know.

God, what was that like?

Well, I wasn't my best self, honestly, a lot of the times. You know, it was hills and valleys, ups and downs. It wasn't stable. It wasn't consistent. You know, I like to think now, like, I'm managing my chronic pain now with cannabis, but before on pharmaceuticals, it was managing me. I just, I couldn't get ahead of it.

You know? Yeah.

Yeah.

Do your kids know today that you're on cannabis?

Oh, yes. Yes. Well, my kids have been cannabis friendly for a long time. They had no hangups with it, their generation. And they knew about the good side effects. It wasn't, you know, just one story for them. And they were happy to see me get healthy. And because I do, cannabis is very controlled for me, you know, that I don't, I don't crave it. My body doesn't physically react for it. It's just a very natural feeling for me, you know, and that's not the way pharmaceuticals are designed. They're designed to make you crave your next dose.

It sounds like your, uh, your, your, your body, um, went into homeostasis with, uh, cannabis. It just balanced itself out.

Yeah, is that the word?

Yeah, well, that's the word we're going to use anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, uh, and you were on all these medications, and what sort of side effects did these medications give you?

Oh, I mean everything from nausea to vomiting to complete loss of appetite to hair loss to fingernails not growing to not as healthy of teeth to— I mean, because I didn't sleep well, I never really got deep sleep, and I definitely sleep while using cannabis.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we certainly do, don't we?

Yeah, I mean, really sound, healthy sleep.

Yeah, which we, we need because your body, uh, your brain actually clears out the toxins, right, in your system when you get a good night's sleep. Yeah, and we know what lack of sleep does to people, right? Right. Yeah. So when you were taking these medications, tell us about the doctor shutting down his practice.

Well, that doctor was a doctor in Colorado who, he was a chronic pain specialist. He was also allowed to, he allowed his patients to use marijuana, cannabis.

Cannabis.

And there were only 2 pain management doctors in Colorado that you were allowed to use the pain medication I was on and use cannabis. They were both allowed to be in your urine on a drug test. And so he was an important doctor for me because he— those two things together worked perfectly for me. But he was defrauding Medicare.

Oh.

He was indicted in Colorado and he destroyed patient records and abandoned his 250 patient practice overnight. And so it was a big deal. And when that happened, I had a choice to make. I would have had to start over with a doctor trying to advocate for myself that I truly am a chronic pain patient, not a drug addict. Mm-hmm. And I'd like to be using these two medications. But I felt healthy enough. I felt like, you know what, cannabis is gonna do the trick. And I did not want to be under— I mean, I lost a lot of faith in that situation with my doctor. I didn't see it coming.

So when you were on the pharmaceuticals, you were taking cannabis as well?

Yes. Yes. And I was allowed to for appetite because I was losing so much weight.

Tell us how that came about. Was it at your own suggestion or was it the doctor's?

Yeah, it was at my own suggestion because I was getting very thin and the medication was working excellent for pain, but I wasn't gonna be able to stay on it unless I figured something else out. And it was really my husband, he's always loved cannabis since the early days. And he just kept saying, "Shelley, you gotta try this." you should try it. And so Colorado was completely friendly by then. Cannabis was everywhere. And so I went ahead and tried it. I think I started with edibles and it worked. So I started using it just to get myself to eat. And little by little, other things started melting away— anxiety, stress. All of those things started just sort of calming down the more I used it. And I used it every day like they told me to. So, yeah.

Were you surprised at the benefits of it?

So surprised. So surprised. Yeah, I was surprised because as I said, I did not view it that way. I viewed it as, you know, like alcohol, a party drug. I did not—

Yeah.

I just didn't know. I didn't know about it. And I just, I guess I didn't believe that just a plant could do the things it did, you know, or it does. I just, I didn't, I didn't know. And this is part of the reason I wanted to be on your podcast, because I think there's so many people my age who grew up like me who don't know. They don't know. They have a different view of it.

Yeah, your age, you could be my daughter.

See, I'm 55 plus.

Yeah, 55 plus.

70 locks.

So when you tried it and you got all these benefits, did your husband say, "I told you so"?

Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, men tend to do that.

Absolutely, yeah. And in my sons too. I mean, they appreciate what it's done, what it's done for our family, you know.

Now, did you have to wean yourself off the pharmaceuticals or did you go cold turkey?

Well, unfortunately in 2020, I had to go cold turkey off my pain medication because my doctor didn't leave me with any choice.

Yeah.

But I was okay mentally. I was prepared. And I do feel like cannabis has made me mentally well, where pharmaceuticals made me mentally unwell. Because they were such a cycle. And I just feel physically pain-wise, mentally, you know, all of it goes together. I feel like that's what cannabis has done for me. It's healed. Everything internally.

You know what, what you just said is— it strikes me, I was thinking of all the interviews I've done on Cannabis Health Radio with people who've been on medications, and once they've tried cannabis and gotten off their medications, life just takes on a different perspective, doesn't it?

It does.

I mean, you realize that a lot of the pharmaceuticals are really poison.

Yeah, yeah. I think I was about 5 years out from pharmaceuticals where I literally could— I felt, and I journaled the day that I felt different chemically, internally. I felt healed. I felt lighter. Um, finally, you know, it took a long time to get all that out of my system and then emotionally get over what pharmaceuticals had sort of stopped me in my place, you know, stopped time for me to some extent. So yeah, it was, but yeah, it's just a, it's a great plant. It really is. It's done wonders for me. I'm very grateful to it.

Yeah. When you, when you look back, Shelley, if you had not tried cannabis, where do you think you'd be today?

Oh, I don't even know. I don't even know because it wasn't as if I hadn't, you know, I do a lot of other work for my chronic pain. I journal, I've done a lot of therapy, I'm alcohol-free, I eat a very good diet, a very healthy diet. But you know, you are who you are and you're wired how you're wired. Cannabis seems to be what my body appreciates. So I, I don't even, I don't even know where I'd be. Um, present, you know.

Yeah, it's interesting. If people who were opposed, who are opposed to cannabis, actually tried it, it'd be interesting to see how many of those people would change their opinion of it, right? Right, because it's not like alcohol where you, you, you get drunk and you throw up.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's not really that good for you. It's tough on your liver. I mean, cannabis is healing, right? Alcohol is really harming.

Yeah, there really isn't, uh, for me personally, any benefit to alcohol. Not, no, not with pain. There's absolutely no way, not even one drink. It just doesn't get— it's not gonna do anything for me.

How much cannabis do you take a day?

Well, so I'm a pretty— I'm pretty high up with how much I can take, but I've been taking it for a long time. So I start with about 50 milligrams of an edible every morning. But that is THC, CBD, CBN, CBG, like a little bit of everything to keep it all. I like hybrids. And then I usually smoke a little at night. I don't like to smoke during the day. I feel like that is just more at home alone when I'm done for the day. So I use edibles during the day and then I smoke at night.

Yeah.

When you smoke at night, do you get high?

Not too much. I mean, I think I have hit that point a little bit. Well, I feel it a little in my head maybe.

But it's a good feeling though, isn't it?

Yeah, it's great. It's great. I'm just relaxed and I'm present. It's not like with alcohol. I was not present when I would, you know, have a drink at night. That immediately started more thinking. It wasn't a relaxing situation for me. So that's not the way, that's not the way cannabis is for me.

Yeah, I can imagine when you're, when you're on all those pharmaceuticals and you have this reaction to them and you have your pain, that's all-consuming. That's what you think about all the time.

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, it's— chronic pain is something you have to manage mentally. I mean, it's a mental game. That's what it is. And cannabis has allowed me to become very mentally strong. I mean, that's just the truth. I know people have the perception it makes you unclear or foggy, or— but that is not the effect it has on me. No. Never been more clear.

Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. Right. Your spine, your missing disc. Mm-hmm. And you said, what sort of apparatus did, or what sort of procedure did they do to kind of replace that or fuse that?

So I've had an artificial disc implanted. At the time, in the early 2000s, it was an FDA trial over from Europe. It's a little tiny artificial disc that they just scraped my old disc out and popped it in. They're very popular now and very successful. It's just my particular situation, the way my body was aligned, it didn't— it it didn't sit right, caused too much pressure, so they needed to go in and do the fusion over it.

What is the— is that the spinal cord stimulator that you talk about?

Okay, so the spinal cord stimulator I had implanted about 7 years into dealing with chronic pain to help with my nerve damage, and I used it solid for And basically that's just advanced bionics. It's a battery that's implanted near my, in my backside area. There's leads up my spine attached with a paddle. And those leads tell my brain that those nerves are still working for a short period of time. I have a remote control. And I just sort of tell my brain that that nerve stimulation is still happening, and it's just artificial. Now, I've had that for a long time, and that system would need to be revamped here soon, but it's a spinal surgery. It's dangerous, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna just leave it as it is, and go forward without using my spinal cord stimulator. Marijuana, cannabis, I still did it. Cannabis is just gonna, it's gonna be it. I'm gonna stay away from needing surgery.

So the spinal cord stimulator you have in now, you're not going to get replaced. Does it, does it wear out at all?

Yes, and that's what's happening. The leads that run up my back are burning out, and they, they need to go in and surgically take that paddle out of my spine, put new leads in, and sew it back in, and it's a, it's a big operation. At the time when I had got my, when I chose this Anyone with chronic pain will tell you just even a notch of relief can make the biggest difference. And the spinal cord stimulator was very effective. You know, 40% of my pain could be knocked off pretty quickly and I could kind of gather myself. But I don't need that anymore.

So when it wears out, Are you just going to leave it there?

I am. I am. I am. Other people have done it. I follow some support groups and it shouldn't be a problem. It shouldn't be a problem to leave there.

So yeah, because I can imagine that an operation on your spine, they can, they can damage your nerve.

Yes.

Which can cause all sorts of other issues that you don't need right now.

Right. I mean, they've already essentially done that. They damaged nerves in my legs, um, with the second spinal surgery. That's what happened. Um, and that's always a risk when people go in for spinal surgeries. Um, so yeah, I'm definitely not going to do that again.

Um, surgery's out for you.

Surgery is out for me. Um, but, and I feel really healthy. So yeah, I don't have to worry about that right now.

Now, when you're— can you feel that stimulator in your body?

Yes, yes, I can. Yeah, I have a couple of different ways. I have a battery that's physically like right in the top of my butt, so you can feel it where you charge it, right? You charge it externally to the internal battery.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, and then when I have it on, it feels like I'm sitting in a vibrating chair. It's vibrating the nerves in my legs, kind of distracting my brain, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when it wears out, you take the battery that's just above your butt, you take that away?

That stays. The internal battery is—

Internal battery stays, yeah.

And then I have a little external battery that you put a stick on that you stick on and off to charge. Yeah, sticks on me.

Boy, are you looking forward to getting rid of that?

I, you know what, I, yeah, it'll be nice to just— I don't, I haven't used it in a while because it's starting to be faulty, um, and so it just, it doesn't work the same as it used to. But I'm, I'm in some ways, um, I used to not think it was possible, but I'm living I'm living very well. My chronic pain is minimal. It's the lightest it's been. And mentally, I can handle it even when I have heavy days. So I just feel like that's good. I'm in the place I need to be. I'm not looking for more or less. I'm good, you know? And that's a good feeling in pain because sometimes you're constantly looking back or forward and never present.

You know, Shelley, have you noticed that in taking cannabis that you've increased the amount you take over the years?

Well, to a certain extent, but when I want to stop taking as much, I just stop taking as much. I just cut my dose down. I don't— I can ebb and flow, so I really never take more than a certain amount. When I reach that point, I just go ahead and I just go ahead and cut myself down for a few weeks and then I go back up as I want.

Have you encountered any stigma because of your choice of cannabis?

Oh yes, yes, absolutely. Well, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think people my generation, a little bit older, think that, you know, they don't buy it. They just don't buy that it's they think it's just a lot of the, like, just a lazy person's drug, an unmotivated drug, a gateway drug, you know.

Well, it is a gateway to good health.

Yeah, but you know, I'm used to that anyways because I was a chronic pain patient, so I was on pain medication. So, you know, was I an addict? Was I not? You know, I mean, there was stigma in my, in my time through the chronic pain world That was, that was the opioid epidemic.

Yeah.

I mean, everybody was concerned about anybody that was on long-term pain management, you know. So the stigma, yeah, I mean, one way or the other, really, right?

Well, it's interesting you say that because my next interview is with the guy in California who's like you, suffered chronic pain as a result of a workplace accident. He was on 1,100 milligrams of OxyContin.

Oh yeah.

And so I had to Google that because I didn't know, is 1,100 a lot? And the average is 20 to 40 milligrams. 1,100. And he switched to cannabis. Yeah. And, uh, people don't really know how absolutely consuming physical pain is.

Right, right.

And it's all-consuming, isn't it?

It is all-consuming, absolutely. It's been the biggest battle of my life for sure, but I'm here and I feel like I'm winning it. I'm winning it with cannabis.

Yeah. When you look back at the person you were but 15 years ago, what would you tell her?

Oh gosh, just keep going, keep going. Try, like, just, just open doors. Don't open every door. I wish I would have opened the door to cannabis sooner, but although I don't like to think that way because I am somebody who believes everything happens in its own time, but yeah, open the door, try it. That's what I would tell myself.

Fantastic. Shelley, thanks for doing this. You have a great story, and I hope people around the world who listen to you kind of have an open mind about what you've done and how cannabis can help them.

Yeah, certainly can't hurt to try. Yeah, to try it.

Absolutely. Thanks for doing this.

Thank you. I'm glad I got to speak with you before you go on your way.

Yes, yes, it was a pleasure.

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