Episode 503: A Lifelong Journey Into the Science of Cannabis Healing - Justin Kander

Welcome to Cannabis Health Radio, where healing stories meet science. Join Reverend Dr. Robin Swann as she talks with patients and experts about the healing power of cannabis and other sacred plant medicines. Trusted information, real experiences, new possibilities for healing. Cannabis Health Radio starts now. Hey kids. How's it going today? Today we have our 504th guest, and for me, it's a very special guest. Justin Kander is someone who I have known since I have pretty much been in this industry at this level. He spent time at my house. I like to call him Boy Wonder. He's one of the smartest young men I know. He's going to have so much to share with us. You can find his earlier recording on Cannabis Health Radio, episode 334, where he was dropping his wisdom. I think that Justin was just born knowing. He has spent nearly— which is impossible because he must have started when he was 5— but he has spent nearly 2 decades researching medical cannabis with a particular focus on cannabis extracts, oncology, and the endocannabinoid system. And on that note, I just want to say that Justin trained me how to say endocannabinoid system one afternoon so I would not say it incorrectly. His work combines scientific literature, patient experiences, practical education, helping patients and caregivers give a better understanding of cannabis-based therapies. He's previously served, and this is where he really shines, as research and development coordinator at The Oil Plant, which is Mara Gordon's, Aunt Zelda's formulation. And through that, he traveled all around the world and gained a tremendous amount of knowledge. So I'm looking at him and I'm like, my little boy has become a grown man. Just can't. You're so grown now, Justin. It's so great to have you here with me. My heart is just blowing up with pride at all that you've accomplished. How are you doing?

I'm doing well. I guess I have grown. When I was at your place, I was 24, no, 23.

So it's been 10, 11 years since that time. So exactly.

It's grown well and it's just been such a wonderful journey where In some ways things have come further than could have been expected. In other ways, they haven't moved much at all, but on the whole, there's been a lot of progress in this time. And I just am very satisfied that it's, it's moving in the right direction and that there has been a lot of substantial progress where it could have stalled. So I'm grateful for that.

So how did you, at such a young, as such a young man and so smart, how did cannabis capture you? How did you even come into alignment with this plan and decide that this is what you were gonna spend your life researching and teaching?

So initially when I was very young, maybe 10, 11, I always wanted to try it. And then I was able to try it with my friend. And so initially it was personal recreational uses as a young person, but then I started to get interested in the medical side. Most specifically, I was on this forum called Grass City and someone posted the original documentary, Run from the Cure: The Rick Simpson Story. This was less than a month after it premiered, and I was just blown away. blown away by it. The content was really compelling, both scientifically and then the human evidence that was presented. And I, I just ran with it. So I, I fully believed off the bat that cannabis could fight cancer. I thought it was a really big deal. So I just dived in and wanted to help advance that cause however I could. So that's how it all began.

And how did you end up in my backyard in, uh, 2014?

Oh yeah, it's funny. You, you said Corey introduced Us together. I hadn't remembered. That's exactly, that's how I guess it was. Like, it's been a while. So I guess it's through Corey that we met. I don't know exactly how he arranged that trip.

Well, I had actually hired him. So what was Corey's last name? Because I, I'm still— no, not Corey Allen. It was Corey Hunt. He has Illegally Healed and he was making content and I met him and he was like, this is wild. You're extracting cannabis in your backyard in the suburbs. We, need to come out to California and make a film with you. And I was like, well, let's do it. And that's my remem— but I was just like, you were just so knowledgeable about the extraction process. And I think that was the first time that you actually walked through the RSO process of extraction.

I was about to say that was the first time that I'd seen the extraction in real life. I'd never seen it actually be extracted before that wasn't on video.

And that was so old school. We were in the backyard, we were burning off alcohol, my And my whole neighborhood was just in a plume of alcohol and cannabis smell for it because we were not recollecting. So that was a long time ago. We've come a long way since then. And so has the science. So where, like, I really, I'm just so curious, what have you, along the way, you've been in the research, the R&D part of it for so long, you've treated so many patients, you've written so many articles and studies. Where are you at now with the understanding? Of cannabis.

So on the whole, research as it's progressed over these many years has largely been more reinforcing than brand new stuff, although I will talk a bit about the minor cannabinoids. But in general, it's just been more and more studies continually accruing showing that THC and CBD kill virtually any type of cancer cell you can imagine. So there's, you know, brain, breast, prostate, pancreatic, gastric, thyroid, Leukemias, lymphomas, melanomas, squamous cell carcinoma, even rare cancers like cholangiocarcinoma and Kaposi's sarcoma. Cannabinoids are shown to induce apoptosis, programmed cell death, the cleanest way for cells to die.

Can you explain what apoptosis is? Because I don't think— I want you to explain 2 things: apoptosis and the endocannabinoid system. These are things that people just don't know.

Yes, they tie together as well. So first, apoptosis. So cells dying is in many cases actually a good thing. When our cells get old or they're damaged, them dying is for the good of the organism. So our bodies have a very intrinsically developed mechanism so that when cells get damaged, they break down into smaller components. If you get hit with a blunt object, your cells explode. That's necrosis. The bad form is necrosis. The cell Explodes, all of its contents are everywhere, not good. With apoptosis, it's programmed, so it breaks down into little apoptotic bodies and gets absorbed by neighboring cells and doesn't cause damage and inflammation. So the type of cell death cannabinoids induce is good. It's programmed. It's, it's made so that the cells can be easily cleared. And the way it causes apoptosis is largely in part via the endocannabinoid system. So this system is a network of cannabinoid receptors on the surface of cells and inside them, but mostly on them. So CB1 and CB2 cannabinoids activate those receptors and lead to all kinds of benefits from reducing inflammation to causing apoptosis. So those receptors do tons and tons of different things related to maintaining the health of the body, hundreds of different functions. And just one of those many functions in service of maintaining homeostasis or balance. That's what brings it all together. It's all about maintaining balance. One manifestation of that is cancer control.

Which is amazing. So you said in, in that whole explanation that THC and CBD kill cancer. So do they, does CBD kill cancer? Does THC by itself kill cancer? Is there a combination of those cannabinoids? That are the winning ticket, if you will?

Yeah. So it, it's interesting. There, there's a couple layers to it, but first, preclinically, THC and CBD are generally shown to be relatively similar. I think the potencies too, but just in general, both THC and CBD are shown to induce apoptosis in most types of cancer cells.

You know, so separately or together? This is the thing. Separately. So when people are taking just CBD, just with no THC in it or trace amounts, or is it a whole plant? Let's say that it's the 1 gram has 780 milligrams of CBD and maybe it has 40 grams of THC. Is that still an active formula to kill cancer cells and create apoptosis?

So theoretically one would expect from the preclinical results, yes, it, it, it looks like CBD should just be effective as THC, but in practice, It seems that people who are using just CBD dominant approaches are not having the same success as people who use either just THC dominant or THC and CBD. That just, you know, it's been my observation. I'm sure it's been yours that people who only use CBD dominant approaches just don't get the best results. Now, some people do. There's definitely some exceptions of profound responses with CBD alone. It just seems less likely. And also the research preclinically work, because there are studies that have combined THC and CBD generally show they do synergize and make each other stronger. So modern approach is ideally use THC and CBD together for most cancers. You don't want to just use just one, but if you're going to just use just one, it's better to use THC than just CBD.

So then there's the other part of the— we are going to demystify and debunk a lot of baloney today because there is so much misinformation in the cannabis industry and people get on Facebook groups and there's all these armchair doctors who Just really don't know what they're talking about. They smoked a joint and all of a sudden they think that they know all about cannabis, right? So I really want to clear up the miscommunication within this. And one of— you just hit both of them, that THC and CBD are both vile, but on paper it looks like CBD really does a great job. But in practicality, I could say from the 30,000 people that I've treated, THC has to be the dominant molecule. All right. Do you think that there is— There is this 4:1 formula that keeps rolling around the internet. People will reach out to me, is it 4:1? And they don't even know what that means. So can you speak about, is it— and then the other thing that I just think is why is you have to separate CBD and THC. There has to be 2 hours in between CBD and THC. I remember propagating that baloney as well. So can you speak to those things? Do we need to separate the molecules? Does it have to be a certain combination or is it just all good? Take as much as you can.

So in terms of the ratios, there just simply isn't enough data to support specific ratios for specific cancers. It's generally way more important than the ratio is the total number of milligrams ingested, which is in my broad experience is generally at least between 100 to 300 milligrams of THC And 100 to 300 milligrams of CBD per day, which where any individual falls in that range and ratio is going to vary tremendously. And generally in my experience, the higher the doses, the better. So everyone could do 300 of both, the 1 to 1, you know, that would probably be pretty good. But also generally you want to see if you can get good results with lower doses because it's both very expensive and dealing with the psychoactivity of THC can be problematic. So it's a balance between finding the minimum effective dose and, and using enough to, to get efficacy.

That's a really big difference. I think that in my experience, 300 is a starting amount to really combat cancer, especially in the 4th stage of it when it's really super active. It's more like 1,000 milligrams a day. Like I have seen—

Can I get up to that? Even better. Even better.

Like, and, and so that leads us to the next Next question. Let's talk about suppositories. All right. I want to know, I, I'm kind of a fan of them and I'm curious where you stand on that. And the reason why people would use suppositories is, in case you don't know out there in radio land, taking 1,000 milligrams of THC a day orally is going to knock you on your ass. You're going to be in the corner just drooling on yourself. But when it's used rectally, it absorbs into the blood system slower. So what do you think about that?

It's a very interesting topic and I actually ended up looking into it significantly last year, more about it. And the bottom line is that they're working for so many people and it's definitely a valid mechanism of delivery. And there's interestingly enough emerging clinical research with vaginal suppositories specifically about—

Vag dabs. Yeah. Vag dabs. That's what we call them.

Yeah. So there is research. On the other hand, there's also been very little pharmacokinetic research about how it's absorbed. It's very limited. And the largest studies have used THC isolate alone. That's, it's known that THC isolate is not well absorbed. And in that study, at least needed to be combined.

So, so an isolate, just because again, we're really just dumping a lot of information on people who are going to be like, what are they talking about? An isolate is a single molecule that's pulled from a fecal oil through a process called hexane. That becomes a white powder, if you will. So it's a way to get a really high dose of the particular molecule that you're looking for. However, like Justin said, it's not easily absorbed in the system. It still needs to be broken down through a fat, and now they're nanonizing it and making it water soluble, but we'll see if that really works in the end.

We now know the theory is that terpenes, flavonoids, and other components of the whole plant extract Somewhat replicate the properties of the hemisuccinate molecule and help the, the THC get absorbed. So that's a mechanism that it could be being absorbed with. So I would just say that because of the— there is still some uncertainty, like people getting some oral cannabinoids, especially for the CBD, that's ideal. And the bottom line is whatever protocol you're using, regardless of what it is, you make changes if it's not working. If you're using the suppositories and it's not working, You might need to increase oral, but if you're getting good results, then you're good. That's great.

But I think you hit on something really important. It's real. I always like to tell people that they're a tube, beginning and end, and you have to break your blood-brain barrier immediately, and that's what you do orally. That way you hit the CB1 and CB2 receptors in your saliva immediately. You're gonna do that. You don't need to do it with a large dose like Justin just said. You could just use CBD and do it. And then what I like about the suppositories, and I'm curious to See what you say about this, is that if you put them in correctly, which is less than 1 inch into the rectum, its first pass is through the lymphatic system, and then it does a pass, then it starts to break the colon wall and seep into the blood system. So I feel that because it goes through the lymphatic system, it's giving the person who's using it a better opportunity for healing.

Pharmacological, whether that— I'm just not sure about theoretically whether that delivery mechanism, because it goes in the lymph first, you know, whether it, it has like a greater healing impact. I know when you ingest it orally, there is a mixture of like immediate lymphatic uptake and then some goes to the liver. So when it goes through the lymph, it does indeed pass, you skip the liver initially, you're getting way more THC, which is less psychoactive. Whereas if you eat it, it gets—

And is that important? That's another point. If you're skipping, that's the whole reason why people wanna do suppositories is so that they, and I think that vag dabs also miss the liver as Well, when you go in through those holes, you avoid the liver. But do you think that that affects the healing, not passing through the liver? You know, the liver is the cleanser really. So I always feel like you're losing product when you're passing through the liver, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. What do you think about the liver, Justin?

It's a good— really is all about the comparative properties of THC and the metabolized product, 11-hydroxy-THC. They're just theoretically— research is all in THC, not 11-hydroxy. So theoretically, if you can avoid that first pass, then you're tapping into more of the compound that's researched. But given how successful people have been with predominantly oral dosing, it's clear that 11-hydroxy THC shares a lot of benefits. So that's a good question. I've never really thought about that.

We'll just have to have you come back on and you can answer it then.

I would say it depends on the individual. I don't think that it's either way is gonna be ideal for someone. Right. It takes experimenting with, with both methods to see if you happen to respond to one, one better.

Would you agree that cannabis medicine is more like homeopathy than pharmacology in that it really lines up with the person and their thumbprint, as opposed to where pharmacology is, here's the formula, everybody takes it. And we just adjust your milligrams.

Absolutely. In, in that respect, extremely like homeopathy. I would just say, at least I associate homeopathy with strong dilutions. And in, in cannabis's cases, you know, so many people need pretty large doses to get, get good results, you know, as with cancer, as you well know. So definitely in terms of the personalization and individual nature of it, the, and it really makes sense there.

So you have been in this game for a long time. Right, like me. You and I are like, as you said, OG people, and you've been treating patients and doing research this entire time. So coming from where you started and to where we're at now, what— and I know that this is a broad question, so you can bring it down as, as much as you want— what do you see? What are the roadblocks that we're still suffering from, and what are the successes within the medical community That we're having? Are you still getting stymied with doctors, physicians, and researchers that you work with, or are they more open to the conversations that you bring?

People have generally, I've explored, nothing has really made any significant progress on the trials or anything super substantive, but people are definitely a lot more receptive. In the beginning, just saying that cannabis could fight cancer, people were very aggressive about that. Even saying, you know, this could hurt the movement by like overpromising. But I'm like, you know, this is the truth. And it can save lives, so that's what matters. So yes, people are definitely a lot more receptive. There hasn't really been a lot of impact from it yet, but theoretically the roadblocks decreased tremendously with the Schedule 3 rescheduling.

So do you think that's a good thing, the rescheduling? Because do you feel like that's going to just give pharmaceutical companies way more power within that conversation, or is it going to give the backyard alchemists more opportunity?

I think that the state pro— this is— I could very well be wrong, but I think that the state programs aren't really going anywhere. Pharmaceutical companies will reach a segment of the population that would just use them or nothing. There's tons of people out there, they're like, if a pharmaceutical does it, we'll do it, but not these state programs. So I think both of them have a role. The key thing is that Schedule 3, this is undeniable, that it's way easier to research cannabis, Under Schedule 3 than Schedule 1. So whether it's pharmaceutical companies or producers who are working with clinical or partnering with universities, research is going to increase. So the hope is there'll be more human cannabis and cancer research. I can say one huge roadblock though, regardless of the law, is money. 'Cause I've talked with a lot of researchers who are interested in trials. Getting money for it is a huge roadblock. So if there was more of that in other countries or even here, In the US, there'd be a lot more opportunity. So there's financial, there was the legal, and that's getting better. But even through all of this, there's still preclinical research has been very consistent around the world and in this country. And there's the follow-up, uh, Jazz Pharmaceuticals clinical trial, which should be finishing up next year on cannabinoids to treat glioblastoma. So that's really huge.

That's great.

Yeah. So there's good stuff happening.

So you'd say that overall, even though it's slow at the snail's pace, we're still, like you As you said, moving in the right direction.

That's where we're crawling. We're not running, but we're not walking or running, but we're crawling.

So you have been in multiple countries around the conversation with cannabis and treating people in Australia and America, and I don't know where else you've been. Spain? Have you been in Spain?

Just Costa Rica.

Costa Rica. So, so what do you think? What is the same and what— like, Australia is so restrictive. And they're just like, we're not even— their government is not even open to the conversation. How do people in Australia source? Because I know that you were there for a while. So when you're in Australia, how do you navigate the terrain of cannabis? Is there any insight you can give?

Yeah, it's, it's, they have very, they have one thing called the Special Access Scheme, Pathway A and Pathway B. No, it's, it's Special Access Scheme, the SAS pathway. And the authorized prescriber pathway. And I don't really need to get into the complex details about that, but essentially they have this really convoluted system where physicians are technically prescribing to people one-on-one to be able to use an unauthorized medication. So you can get medical cannabis in Australia, but it's just more difficult.

It's like low dose, really low dose.

Oh no, they have 30, 26% flower and 10 milligrams per mL extracts. It's gotten better in the past few years. They do have Decent access to THC products, but it's expensive. It's difficult to get. They also have unique advertising laws where their— the websites of dispensaries can't say cannabis or marijuana. They have to say plant-based medicine, which is pretty interesting. And you still need— the big thing is you still need prescriptions for CBD and CBG. There's not like a hemp market here where you can just order it online. Still just as hard to get CBD and CBG as THC. THC, which is the craziest thing to me. So that's how things are there right now, basically.

They're definitely— I know, you poor Aussies out there, all you guys listening, we, we love you and want good things for you and hope that things change. So, um, besides THC, what's your favorite cannabinoid and why?

Which one? CBG. I love CBG. Oh, I guess I need to say CBDA. CBDA I like a little bit more than CBG. But that's also because I eat the flower whole and I'm getting the other cannabinoids with it. CBG, I haven't tried CBGA yet. That might be—

That's awesome.

But for right now, CBDA, which I get by eating raw cannabis, I just eat the bud straight, as full spectrum as you can get, even more than extracts. And then, uh, CBG, I had both a CBD, CBG product, and I just got a CBG isolate product because it was on sale. And mixing it with the CBDA that has the terpenes, flavonoids anyway, so I'm still getting the full spectrum approach by combining it. But I've been taking 100 milligrams of that the past couple days just because why not? It's so strong. I'm enjoying that. And still THC on occasion, but I'm big— as I've grown up, the THC has gone down and the, the other cannabinoids have gone up.

Because they're so restorative. I think that's one of the things that's—

Nothing feels as good as eating. This is my number one advice to anyone listening, is that getting the CBDA-rich hemp, you know, you get CBD oil, which is just what they make From the CBDA hemp, you just get it, you just eat it or blend it in a smoothie, and it's freaking amazing.

And because again, people don't know, when there's an A at the end of the molecular chain, it means that it's the number, it's the first molecule in the chain, because molecules drop down. So CBGA is the first molecule in the plant, correct?

Yes.

I'd hate to be wrong. And when they're in the A fat, I always call them the C family and the T family, right? Because trying to explain all of the 62 molecules that are cannabinoids and the 2 molecules that are THC, there's like, that alone I think should really help people to see how much of the workforce and workhorse the CBD family actually is because there's so many more molecules in the plant that start with C than THC, than T.

There's a lot of great charts online. You can search cannabinoid chart on Google Images. And like you said, it starts with CBGA at the top. And CBGA is converted via enzymes to THCBCA. All the other cannabinoids are converted by enzymes, and then the heat removes the A. So CBGA converts to THCA by an enzyme, then THCA converts to THC by applying heat, and the heat makes the acid go away, and you have the neutral counterpart. So cannabis only makes acids. Cannabis doesn't produce THCBG, it only produces the acids. And those only change through heat largely.

Which brings me to the bane of my existence, decarboxylation.

Yes.

Now I want to know, I am not a fan of decarboxylation as an herbalist, as someone who has been working with plants my entire life. It makes absolutely no sense to me to burn a plant before I extract it. I've never done it and I encourage everybody to not do it. So I, I'd like to know where you land on that, cuz I'm sure it's different than me.

It, it depends. So the, the key thing, cannabis is a very unique plant compared to any other herb. So it, it may very well be the one where that's needed, but THCA doesn't activate the CB1 and CB2 receptors. So if you don't decarboxylate it, then you have your THCA, which has many medical benefits and may be stronger than THC. Oh, it's so cool.

But you're gonna end up decarboxylating through your process. If you're making a FECO oil or an RSO, when you burn off that alcohol, you are decarboxylating that plant. So why burn it off on the front? Because when you heat it up, like you said, you're breaking all those molecules. They're all going bye-bye. So they're not gonna even get pulled into the oil, which is then on its— if you do it correctly, you're gonna heat it up to 180 degrees. Or not more than 210, hopefully. And you're going to decarboxylate the plant.

I mean, so you're, you're, as long as it's fully decarboxylating enough, and I don't care. I think it's good if there's a lot of THCA left over, but with your method of just doing it at the end, or are you indeed seeing on the lab results?

Oh, you see the labs. The labs are, they definitely show very little THCA, mostly THC. Almost none. Yeah. It's almost all THC. Well then there's, then yeah, it's the I just don't understand why people burn their plants. It just pisses me off.

I think it's because, I think on the back end they think they need to do it to fully decarboxylate.

I think it comes from the conversation of people looking for high THC. Now you and I are both buddies with Rick. We both know him for a very long time. We've both been in this conversation since the get, all right? So when he started, when he made Run from the Cure, that was decarboxylation, kill the THC, kill everything but THC, Get the plant to 98% THC. Now, through the years, agree with me or not, happy to have you oppose me, we've learned that that's not necessarily better, killing everything off.

Yeah, I agree completely. Just to get to 98%. Also, there was never any, like, they used to say it's got to be 90% THC and all that, but like, they weren't lab testing back then. There was no way to know what was in that.

So the very, some of the The very first oil that I extracted was with Rick, and he was using naphtha, right?

Oh, you actually extracted with Rick directly?

Via the interphone and that. I didn't go to Nova Scotia.

Okay.

But he was like my mentor. It was very cool because I was one of the first people to see Run from the Cure, and he was available to people like us. He hadn't been inundated with the rest of the world.

That's how I found him. That's how I called. I just looked, his number was online.

And just called him. He was great. He was amazing. You could just get him on the phone. So he walked us through one of our first processes, and we actually got nafta in America, which turns out to be paint thinner. All right, so, and that was insane. So our first— I think we pulled 5 plants with nafta. It was one of our first times, like I said, and we had a woman clear breast cancer with 5 grams.

Wow.

It was amazing, and it was the blackest, strongest, craziest goo. And I think that one of the people that was with us still has 10 grams of that because you needed such a teeny tiny amount. But what I noticed through the continual process, thousands and thousands of pounds at this point, probably 100,000 pounds at this point of cannabis, that naphtha is bad, you know, um, in America especially, because Canadians have a much cleaner product than we do.

The white aliphatic naphtha that they used to say back in the early 2010s, I remember the forum They're like, they have the light aliphatic and we have a heavier.

And then we went to ISO and that almost killed my husband. He almost lit himself on fire. And then he was also an herbalist as well, so we went back. We were like, look, we gotta fix this. And we got on the phone with our buddy and he was like, well, it's from the Ming Dynasty, it's part of the Ayurvedic texts, and it was called honey oil when I found it. And through all that research, we were like, wow, let's just use alcohol. Let's just use organic ethanol. So that was the changing point for me. But what are your thoughts on— now because of Dr. Bob Melamed, I am a big fan of BHO. Now pull all of our oil through— we do it in an industrial plant that's regulated and California licensed and all of that. But I have found that the best molecular structure comes from pulling it through BHO because of that cryonically frozen experience that happens. What are your thoughts on extractions?

Yeah, I'm more open to, to all of them, uh, these days, um, including hydrocarbons when they're used in the proper lab setting. It's safe and effective at pulling out high levels of cannabinoids and terpenes. I think the one thing that they might miss is the flavonoids more so. That might be a little bit lower. There's alcohol, does— it is a more full, ultimately fuller spectrum approach because it has the nonpolar and the polar sides on, on the molecule. Super CO2 and hydrocarbons are all nonpolar exclusively.

I'm not a fan of CO2. I, I honestly do not, and I will die on this hill. CO2 is not medicine for cancer. It just goes— smoke it in your vape pen, but it is not going to cure your cancer. I don't think.

The hydrocarbons are far more, that's definitely the least of them. So I'm open really to, there was a big push against hydrocarbons, I feel like in the mid-2010s because of the, there was a lot more residual solvent back then, but. It's become so professional where there's little residual solvent. With butane specifically, I did a lot of research on it and like residuals that you need for damage are absurdly high. OSHA, which is hard-ass for worker safety, they don't play around. They're like, you know, 80,000 parts per million for 8 hours is the limit.

And we're not anywhere near that. So you must have treated in the last 15 or so years, you must have dealt with thousands of I would say that my, my most extensive working with patients was for Aunt Zelda's.

It was probably at the max a couple thousand that I had at least minimal interaction with, like probably 200 to 300 that were pretty extensive. Um, but it was thousands that I had at least minimal guidance that I, I provided to some degree.

Well, that's no experience at all, so I can't even ask you a question. I mean, it's only been thousands Robin. But in that context of working with all those people, what has been the greatest hindrance of sharing information with people and what has been your joy that you've received from working with them?

Hindrance. I've— hasn't really been much stigma. I guess the greatest hindrance would be the literal math of it, instructing you on dosing and math of— that's definitely the number one thing actually. The greatest joy would definitely be people saying that it worked, especially of course for the direct anti-cancer effects. That's definitely the, the most joyful thing to hear. Um, but there's also joy in educating people about the dosing and when they get it. It's been, been a long time since I've, uh, talked someone through it where they've gotten it, but that, that was also joyful. It's like the joy a teacher feels when their student gets a concept.

Right, exactly. So it's been such an It's been an incredible pleasure visiting with you. I just have such a huge heart space for you. I just like, just have such love for you and your brain and how you've just committed your being to this plant. So I just wanna thank you on all of us. And can you let people know where they can find your research? Do you have a website or anything like that? I know we're gonna put the Dropbox link for your book into, into our feed and stuff, but is there any other way to find the brilliant Dave Erickson? Yeah, so I have a website.

Thefreecannabiscancerbook.com link is huge. Um, also my, my email is thehempsolution@gmail.com or info@cannabisdeclaration.com. Also YouTube at Cannabis for Cancer. I have several videos and I also work for Eric Cancer Playbook. We've, we've produced, uh, educational content for cancer patients, so EricCancerPlaybook.org. Those are really all, all the big links. It's a decent amount, but not too much.

That's a lot. So, all right, Justin, is there anything that you want to say to the Cannabis Health Radio? I know that Corrie Yellen, who's one of the founders of this, was like your first interview, that she was the first person to interview you.

Well, she was the opposite.

I interviewed her.

I was the first person to interview her.

Okay.

For my students for Sensible Sustainable Drug Policy Organization at University of Maryland College Park. Shout out to SSDP, they're still going strong. But yeah, it works to fight cancer, it really does. The evidence is overwhelming. We didn't really get into it, but, you know, endocannabinoids, uh, anandamide and 2-AG, also kill cancer cells. So phytocannabinoids and endocannabinoids kill cancer cells. That's why cannabis is working so well in humans. Um, my hypothesis at least, well supported, and it fights cancer and everyone should be able to use it if they want.

I agree 100%. We are definitely going to have you back. Thank you for sharing your big brain and beautiful heart with us. And all of you out there, remember Justin Kander. You can find him, we're going to link all of those assets in our feed so you can email him or download his book. Now, Do what's yours to do, which is to like and comment on this so we can move it through the algorithm and spread the good word of cannabis. Thank you, Justin. For all of you, thank you. I'm Robin Swan and I speak for the trees. Have a great day. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Cannabis Health Radio. We hope today's conversation has reminded you that healing is possible and that you are not alone. If you found this episode valuable, Please share it with someone who may benefit. Every story shared helps bring the good medicine of cannabis to more people. For more episodes, educational resources, and community, visit cannabishealthradio.com and consider joining our Patreon family where you'll connect with like-minded individuals as well as help support our work. Until next time, stay informed, stay curious, and keep advocating for yourself. I'm Reverend Dr. Robin Swann. Thanks for listening.