From Chernobyl to World Champion | Oksana Masters

I was born in Ukraine, and it wasn't until I got to America I went to my first dentist and they saw radiation in my teeth. And that's when they were like, this is most likely Chernobyl that caused all this.

What if I told you that one of the most dominant athletes of our time began her life in unimaginable hardship and then rewrote her story chapter by chapter?

Society determines people with disabilities. I'm invisible. My story's been written for me as a girl with a disability, as an orphan, as a female in sports. I wanted to rewrite my own story.

Welcome back. Welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade and training, a high performance psychologist. Now, the idea behind these conversations is simple. To sit with the extraordinaries to really learn how they work from the inside out. And today we're doing just that by bringing back another unforgettable conversation from the Finding Mastery vault with the incredible Oksana Masters.

When you think of an athlete like Serena Williams or Michael Jordan, first thing that pops into 90% of people's minds is what they've achieved and the greatest of all time. But when you think of a Paralympian, oh, well, what happened to your body? Where did you come from? Where you come from, it's important. It's shaped you, but it's not your identity of who you are.

Oksana is a multi sport Paralympic gold medalist, one of the most decorated Paralympians in US History. Oksana's journey, it's a masterclass in what it means to reclaim agency in a life that offered her none. I want to give a disclaimer here. This episode deals with some pretty heavy subjects around abuse and they could be triggering for you. I'm encouraging you now to use your best judgment. I personally found this conversation to be incredibly meaningful and wonderfully healing.

It's going to sound so weird, but like, I'm so thankful for what I experienced and what I went through because I now know nothing's going to get as bad as that. First of all, and now what I'm doing here, I'm in complete control and can have the option to choose how I want to approach this.

We're rereleasing this episode now because her message about how she worked with her experiences, to live with a sense of freedom and power, it feels just as relevant, if not more so today. So with that, let's Jump right into this week's conversation from the Finding Mastery Vault with Oksana Masters. Oksana, I am so excited to sit with you and have this conversation. I read your book and I couldn't put it down. It was. It was overwhelming in parts and inspiring in equal ways. And I'm just. I'm in awe on how you've navigated your life. And you are literally, to me, a living emblem of how to deal with shit. Like in some cases, like, your mom is an absolute badass. You are a badass. Like, how you've organized your inner life is incredible. The deep insight you have on how to deal with. I don't want to. Let's call it what it is like for me, it's dark. Like, some of the human behaviors that you've been through have been dark. And, you know, we all have our own unique dark parts of our life, our own scars, our own battle wounds. And you have written a story that's remarkable. And you faced some incredible things and then squared up with them. And you also have this sense of peace in your life. You're kick ass athlete and a complete human in the sense that you're amazing. And so I just want to start by saying that. So thank you.

Thank you. First of all, you're way too kind. You're way too kind. I'm just a person. Just a girl with no legs, really. But thank you so, so much. I'm so excited.

I'm just a girl with no legs.

Yeah, I'm just a girl. You know, I'm sometimes I'm five, eight, sometimes four foot, sometimes just curl up in a ball.

You are too funny. Okay, what do I need to know about you to understand you?

Oh, man, I honestly, I don't know. I'm a really boring person, to be honest. There's really, I think one of those people, I think a lot of you are like, oh, you're so bubbly. You're so positive. And I was never just right away, always positive and bubbly and loved myself and had this outlook in life and I found just like how to find, laugh at myself and make fun in light of situations when I'm uncomfortable. So I just laugh for no reason sometimes.

So that there's like this idea of like equal opposites in some respect. Like, as somebody who really wants to soar in life, right, there's some sort of counterbalance to having some depth, right? There's for people that understand the light, they also need to understand the dark. And so you embody the light. But You've also faced down and worked with the dark. So one of the things I'm really intrigued by is do you resonate with ptsd?

Well, I guess, like, I. It's weird. It's like a label. Like, I didn't know that's what it is. I guess, in, like, scientific terms, like, yes, I do have ptsd. And to this day, like, I'm something like loud noises and there's certain smells and certain. Just certain things. Like, I'm a super hyper vigilant person too. And there's 30 things that can be happening in a room, and I'm hearing each one individually, and it makes my body just stress. So stressful and so draining to try and, like, tell my body constantly of, you recognize these things and the sounds and you're fine. But, yeah, I mean, I. I do.

What I hear, when I hear you say is, like, listen, I'm. I'm not about trying to get labeled and Which I really appreciate. And then on the other side, I hear you saying, yeah, it's not like it was a thing last year that I'm now done with or it's not a thing that I kind of struggled a couple years after some of my early trauma. You're saying, yeah, no, I still have a hyper vigilance. And by the way, that is really one of the guiding functions of ptsd. It's not. It's a terrible name for.

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

Yeah. So how do you manage that? How do you deal with that part of hyper vigilance? Because it's exhausting.

It is. And my fiance hates going to a movie with me because, oh, my gosh, I can hear every crunch of every person's popcorn and sneeze and everything. And I'm like, looking back and I'm like. He's like, just stop it. Just stop it. And like, every whisper. Honestly, for me, it's my one time that I don't have any of that, except sometimes when. Sometimes I do when I'm extremely zoned out is in that moment of racing and my mind just shuts off and I go to one specific. I do this weird thing I've always done, and I count to 10 over and over and over, and people are like, why don't you come to 100? It's a lot more going on. Like, I don't know. I've always counted. Whatever I do, just, like, count to 10. And I don't know why I started doing that and when I started doing that. But from what I can remember. And when I counting the weird thing is like my mind subconsciously is like processing their different going into memories and stuff. And just that's the moment where I don't have any of that stressful anxiety until there's, I don't know, just like a random like bird or something or like something that a bee that comes by and I'm. When I'm on the bike and I'm like, oh my God. And it freaks me out. But because I'm so zoned out, that's the only time. Every other time it's, it's just kind of there and no real. I don't know.

Well, so that what you just described as deep focus is a one of the inoculations for racing mind. And if you're fully committed to one and then two and then three. Right. And you're fully committed to that, there's literally no space to muse other ideas.

Or images or feel the pain of like what you're. You're feeling like racing and stuff. And like, like you're just focused on that number and then.

Okay, so give some context for folks that haven't read your book that don't understand what some of the early childhood experiences give to your best abilities without me asking something that you don't. Where you don't want to take a conversation. But can you give a general sense because you did such a nice job in your book explaining your early childhood experiences.

So I was born in Ukraine and I was born three years after Chernobyl. Radiation leak happens. The radiation levels, what people don't even know to this day is so high and so strong and keeps rising that there's like 100 miles around where Chernobyl is like it's just dead land right now. And when my birth mom was traveling and she must have eaten something or in that area that was affected by radiation that resulted in when I was in her birth, when I was in her stomach resulted in my like deformities disabilities. I guess I was born with my legs. And it wasn't until I got to America that I went to my first dentist and they took X rays and my adult teeth. They saw radiation in my teeth and that's when they were like this is what time. And they went back into the time frame and kind of where the village I was. Well the last orphanage we don't really where I was from and everything in Ukraine and kind of said that it's most likely Chernobyl that caused all this. Because when you're born with A disability or any thing that's like deformity in the body. A lot of times it's localized. So if you have an amputation, it's like at the legs and only at the legs. Or maybe it'll be like on a leg and an arm or something. But it's the same type of a disability where for me, I was born with my legs. My was missing the main weight bearing bones on both of them. And my knees were kind of floating there. They weren't really knees. And my enamel was stripped and radiation is one of the only things that can strip enamel. And my hands were deformed. I was missing my organs and kidneys and some muscle groups. That's why I really got to focus when I go straight on a bike. Because if I, if I don't, then I'm like, the one muscle group's gonna take over because it's stronger. But because of all the stuff that was going on. I was put right to an orphanage because my birth parents didn't have the resources for the medical care I was gonna need. And they thought they were going to be giving me a better life in the orphanage where they could potentially give me what I need. And that wasn't the case. I lived in three different orphanages straight from birth until I was adopted when I was seven and a half. And within those three orphanages, the one I remember the most and the one that my memories are so vivid that are in the book and I share a lot. But there's some things that I just don't share in the book and the memories because I'm still trying to figure out how to put words to the things that I experienced. But the last one is where a lot of the stuff happened and there was just mistreatment, abuse, physical, sexual hunger, like starving to death and just being extremely malnourished. When I came to America, I was diagnosed as failure to thrive. Like I wasn't gonna live long because of just my size. And my immune system was non existent at all and just very weak. And it's weird, like my hair was black and coarse and I had black eyes and everything. Like, everything changed when I came to America. And finally my mom says it was just food, love and hugs. And I grew within like, like six inches within a few months of being in America. And my mom adopted me as a single parent. And then we came to. And the crazy thing is like, she just saw a picture of me. She didn't go to the orphanage first to be like, oh, I love her personality. Or anything like that. She just saw this really not so cute picture of me and thank God she saw something in it and fought for me for two years. It was a very long battle that she had to go through. And now I'm here.

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Oh, yeah, well, yeah, like my friend Lainey.

Yeah, well, your friend Lainey. We can. We can talk about that. There's things like, there's the horror part of it, which I'm not interested in talking about in this moment with you, but there's the parts where, like, I'm like, like, can you talk about the sugar cubes? How you like, this is remarkable, by the way. I don't. I'm sorry, real quick. I don't want to miss this point. I don't want to miss that. You came to America with hugs and some food, some pure love that your mom had, and you grew six inches in a handful of months like that. That should paint a picture of, like, just how bad it was. And so, look, can we just start with the sugar cubes? And like, I think it. That really brings it to life for me at least.

Yeah. So I. I love sugar cubes. Even when I got to America, I hoarded them in my room and under my mattress and behind my boarding my headboard. I was really, really hungry at times. And if I washed a pair of 10 socks on this, like, metal, like, old washboard, I would get a sugar cube and I learned how to savor that sugar cube. My fiance hates the way I eat now because something I still do to this day, like, I. He calls me like a little rabbit. I take the smallest bites and then I individually within that bite, I make that bite, like 10 separate bites in itself. The way I ate that sugar cube to keep it longer and last longer is so everyone knows what a sugar cube is, obviously. And it's like, has within that square as, like these little tiny crystals of sugar. And I would take little bite by bite and chew each one individually. And it would just last me for a very, very long time. And taught, like, I just would get fuller that way faster and I would have more and just learned how to do that. And I Do that now, to this day, with my grapes, I eat the. I'm such a weirdo. I eat, like, the peel first and that. Eat the, like, the outside and then, like, later on. It all actually came in handy when I was living out of my car. I learned how to make that box of spinach that I could afford the grocery store last that much longer because it was. I've already been there. I knew that. And that's. I worked for that food and savored it.

All right?

I think that's where I learned hard work. Like, okay, if I work hard, there's, like, not a reward, but there's good out of it.

Well, this is not advised, right? Like, starve. Starve your kids so that they understand hard work. This is not. This is not what we're saying. Okay? But I mean, remarkable. Like, it speaks to your resourcefulness, your cleverness, the will to live, a strategy to figure out how to optimize when it is deplorable. And so, like that. That, to me, it feels like that captures so much about your internal resources. And now, let's just be clear. This was like in the age 4, 5, 6, right? 7.

Yeah. So no, this was 5 and 6. 5 to 7, because, like, I moved. The way it works is from birth to 3, you're in one orphanage. From 3 to 5, you're in, like, considered like a baby home. And then five to 16, you're. You're considered an adult, unless you're four and you outgrow your bed. Then you go automatically to the adult one.

And so you had a friend in there, Lainey, which you talk about in the book. And she was like, she took care of you?

Yeah. I didn't realize how much she was taking care of me and how much she was protecting me. And I've been through therapy, too, and I was that really hellish child that just would make it very difficult on the therapist. I wouldn't talk or anything. And I had one incredible one in Buffalo, New York. It was supposed to be a 30 minute consultation. And all of a sudden my mom's like, it's an hour and a half in and I'm still in there. And she comes out and she's like, can she. Oh, because I have some milk and some cookies. She's like, yeah, but is this okay? Like, we're past the time of the consultation. She's like, yeah, after that. That. She's like, I don't remember. I don't. No, I know. I didn't say anything. I was not a Talker I was not. But she gave me things to draw on things. And. And at the end, she walked down. She told my mom, like, she's gonna need a lifelong therapy for the rest of her life. She's been through some, like, it's very apparent in her body language and what she's drawing. And she. My mom was trying to figure out what it was so that patient confidentiality. She wasn't going to tell her, but it was very apparent for her within, like, the first five minutes of being with me, there was a lot of deep stuff. A lot of that deep stuff was what I did not know, what my friend Lainey, who was one of my best friends there in the orphanage in the last one, was protecting me from until she was gone. And when I say gone, I mean, I'm not going to say the specifics because you can read about it. But she didn't just pass away peacefully, unfortunately, it was a pretty traumatic way that I had to watch her die. And that's a guilt that I have with me because it was my fault of what happened and why we were out of our rooms. But that's why I wanted to write this book, is because I've always felt so guilty and always wondered, like, why did I make it out? Like, why. Why was I the one that made it and she wasn't? Why. Why didn't. Like, Like, I don't. I didn't understand it. And then I felt guilty about it. And this was my way to honor her legacy and make her story so that she is someone. It didn't just go unknown. And she is there, and she's been that part of my journey the whole entire time. And yeah, she was. She was the pretty version of me. She had the natural blonde hair. This is fake. I don't have blonde hair. And she had the blue eyes and just nothing that physically wrong. And she was older and just like, just so, so sweet. Like, just so, so kind.

So can I offer an observation?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I think I'm watching you take care of yourself right now. What do you mean that. Yeah. So, like, you.

My hair.

No, no, you're completely honest with what you just responded. And there's a lot of emotion, and I can hear it in your voice, and I'm sure you can feel it, but I watched you, like, not go into, let's say a 10. Let's say on a scale of 1 to 10, it's like an 8 is where I'm about to, like, fall into a thousand pieces. And, like, you know, Like. Or maybe that's a nine or something, right? And, like, somewhere in the seven or eight zone, I'm like, okay. Like, I can feel it, but I can still manage it. And I think you were right up in that 7 and 8. If. If. If we're calibrating correctly.

That's because every time I talk to her, talk about her, I get to a point where I'm fine, fine, fine. And then all of a sudden, I'm, like, crying. And I don't want to do that on you. That's why I was like. Like, people can read about the specifics. Because when I start to talk about it, there's so much. There's so much power in when words come to life and you put them out there and you speak them from your mouth. And that's why I hated my story. And it was so hard for me to love my story and love myself and. And know what I went through wasn't my fault. But, yeah, I. I don't. I don't. I just totally lost my train of thought, where I was, why I was coming with that.

But does that happen sometimes when you. When you go and kind of get close to the trauma, that it. There's a blankness that comes with it? Sometimes.

Sometimes, yeah, I reckon. Sometimes. Not oftentimes with Lainey, though. Like, that is. I think, because I just saw it and heard, and it's like. Sounds like that. When you watch something like that, you do not forget, ever.

I'm so glad we're talking about this. A big part of this book was about Laney. But when I read this part of the book, I was like, oh, there's a hero, right? And I wondered how you worked through that. And the book. In the book, the way you write about it, you pulled me right into it. It felt like I was there, like, watching. And I wondered about, like, the survival guilt that you might feel about that. And that's what you're dealing with now maybe, or. Or have been. And it's like, it doesn't make any sense because you wouldn't have chosen that. You wouldn't have. You wouldn't have wished that, like, that it's not anything close to what either of you wanted. And so it's like, it doesn't make sense. Why was it her and not you?

Yeah, well, because she pushed me.

She took care of you.

Yeah.

We're all so lucky to have somebody like Laney in our lives.

Yeah. And that's so cool, because every time I race, like, I. I'm so there's so many times and moments, whether I'm training or racing and I feel like literally like sometimes like a push and I'm like looking back to see who it is and I'm by myself and in my mind of like told that was my way of telling myself like that is Lainey saying I'm like right here by your side still. And then she's never left and all that kind of stuff. So I'm pretty lucky because I have that extra secret weapon that not a lot of athletes have. And when I get really, really tired specifically, and when I feel that and I think someone's behind a competitor pushing me, sometimes it is because it gets racing, it happens. But I'm pretty lucky to have that. And it's like that second window Finding.

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Yeah. And I think that's the whole point of this book. That's exactly how to say like, like I want people to when they read it, not to learn about my story and my experiences. But how can they make their hard parts, their shitty experiences or their bad days into their power and fuel to like, not just be something bad that happened. Like, oh yeah, this is a really sad memory. But you know what? Like you. We started this conversation at the beginning of. There's always that big contrast and there's. We can take from both.

Have you ever read or do you. Are you aware of Banksy's insight? The. You know, the contemporary artist Banksy?

No.

About dying twice.

Clearly live under a rock.

Well, you're training a lot, so it's understood. They say you die twice when you stop breathing and then the second one a bit later when somebody mentions your name for the last time. Pretty cool. So Laney's still living. How about it? Yeah. Okay. How do you use and integrate your experiences? That. This is like, what I really want to understand because there was an insight that you had which was somebody asked you if you could go back and kind of change, you know, your seven year old's experiences. And you were really bold. Do you remember what you said in that interview?

I would tell her I wouldn't change a thing, to just keep fighting.

Yeah.

Except stop climbing books. The bookshelves that I always got ripped from and just in trouble all the time because I clearly didn't learn from getting in trouble all the time and getting punished. And I still went and did it anyways. So I tell myself too.

What do you tell yourself?

I would tell myself, like, to stop doing that if I could go back in time to just like, not just, yeah, keep fighting, but also, let's not put ourselves in like, more trouble than we already get.

Do you take risks? Is that what that's about? Like, are you an adventurer, a risk taker? Like, help me understand that part of you a little bit.

I am. In a weird way, like, I'm not. There's a reason why I love cross country skiing and not downhill skiing because I like to work against gravity. It's safer in that aspect. So risk wise like that? No, I do not. But I am a very adventurous person and want to try and we'll do something at least once. And I've always been very. I think I've always walked that line of like right on that edge of a fear and exhilarating kind of thing.

Okay, so you like that? You, you like that feeling?

Yeah.

And then, yeah, when I can know.

When I'm in control of it, when I'm like in like controlling every aspect of it kind of thing.

So this is another insight. Before we get to the alignment piece, you had another insight, which is like, for so much of me and so much of my early life, my story was written for me. I have your. Your right. And then you say, but that's different. On the start line. On the start line, the story isn't written.

Nothing's decided yet.

Nothing is decided yet. And so much of your life was as you, as you put it, like, decided for you. So what were the things that were decided for you? What are you capturing in that insight?

When my story was written for me, I'm referring to scars that I came with that I Remember and I know how I got and some I don't remember and they were already written for me. That part of me on my body that I had no control over.

What does that mean? What are those scars that you're referring to?

Like on my legs and my hands and stuff. And I have this one on my stomach and that I remember very vividly getting one night and it's just like I didn't have a control in that I didn't have. I didn't like the scars. Now like I'm recovering from an injury on my hand and I have the scar and I have these scars on my elbow from Pyeongchang when I was racing and mess my elbow up. These scars I was in control of because it's from an injury. I know where they came from. The scars that are resulted of abuse and punishments or like the ones I have a lot of like IV cut down scars where it was just reused. Reused. I was the smallest and the youngest so I was the last one to get all the needles and so they just got infected to cut everything out. So there's some medical scars too. And that's all that I had no control over and I didn't like I just. That was written for me. And in addition to that, mentally when I came to America and started processing and understanding, not even understanding, but when all the memories I thought I was suppressing and hid and told my mom nothing ever happened, it was that like invisible scar tissue inside. That was also something that was written for me and I had to relearn how to rewire my brain and my process. When I look in the mirror, in addition to going through amputations two separate times in my life and both times someone's telling me why would you do that? You can't do anything if you cut your legs off. And my legs are above the knee, which makes a very, very big difference if you're below the knee amputee to above the knee amputee because you're missing two joints or ankle and a knee. And society determines people with disabilities that I'm invisible, I'm not worth of. I'm not worthy of setting goals, let alone achieving those goals or love or being seen. And my biggest pet peeve is determining what's what I'm capable of achieving and doing based on what their limited view is. And so in that aspect, my story's been written for me as a girl with a disability, as an orphan, as an abused orphan, as a female in sports and being a smaller statue built and Stuff, and I wanted to rewrite my own story.

Thank you for the insights there. And more importantly, thank you for getting so close to your experiences that I feel like I can feel it, too. You're forcing, just by the way you're choosing your words for me to be in touch with times that I felt like I wasn't seen and my essence didn't matter as much as their experience. And I think a lot of people can understand what that means. So you take it a step further. You say, I was invisible. Can. Can you open that up a little bit? Like, what that's like. And I think there's. There's probably two parts. There's the. You can talk about the trauma part, of course, but there's also, like, the. The everyday thing is, like, I've learned from some Paralympic athletes that I've spent time with is that, like, people don't want to look. And because if they look, they don't want to make you feel different or weird.

I've got the opposite problem. People stare like there's no tomorrow. Like their eyes are about to. My pet peeve is if you're going to look, look. And then that's the question. It's when people go and they're like this, and their eyes are following. It's like they're about to fall out of their heads. They're going, and then they're trying to look, that it's more obvious than if you just look and turn. And it's fine to look, but it's like walking through airports or anywhere in the grocery store or, you know, it's like, what's really hard is I have my prosthetics. I'm okay with those. My hands is what drives me insane. People don't know what to do, because sometimes when I pay for something with a card or cash, and they go and they're like. And they jump and then like that, because it's so different. They didn't expect my hand to look the way it does, like a little tiny T. Rex claw coming at them. And maybe my nails.

Wait, what did you call it? The little.

My little T. Rex claw. I have little short hands anyways. Like, my hands are. I'm a short person. And so I try to make it up with my legs and be tall to hide for that, but my hands are like. I've had a lot, a lot of surgery and reconstruction surgery on my hands to the point, like, doctors don't understand how I'm using my hands because scientifically, within my anatomy, it makes no sense. I shouldn't be able to. But I found a way. Like, we all find ways.

And so you had. You were born with five fingers, not a thumb.

My fingers, no thumb. But it was like they were all webbed. And so when I was in Ukraine, I had seven surgeries to help a little bit. I was born. Fun fact, six toes, which is not due to radiation, that apparently something like, you get passed down from your parents. So I can't wait to one day meet my birth family. Like, did you have six toes? And why do I. Did you give me these eyebrows that, like, stop growing halfway and I have to fill in the rest? There's a lot.

So. So there's a lot there. So. So on the six toes, is it like, literally, like, it's an extra toe or is it. It's not, like, coming from the same. So. Yeah. And. But your fingers had, like, two nail beds in each finger.

Yeah.

Did I read that correctly?

Yeah, yeah. They were all like, everything doubles. But what I don't have is. So like, I have this one. This one. But then I don't have that extra joint that you do here. It's just one, two.

That's right. Yep.

Okay.

Yeah. Cool.

And then they took my fifth finger, like, moved it from here to here. So I don't.

Where your thumb normally be.

Yeah. So, like, I don't have this muscle here because it's not a thumb, which is half of your hand.

What's the best type of interaction? When somebody notices your hand or they're looking like. And like, what's the best kind of. And what's the worst kind of reaction? That. Or inner interaction that.

The worst is, like, when you, like, do a double take as if someone just poured hot water on them or cold water on them. It's like, okay, cool. Get. Get cultured experience. Get out a little bit. I know I live in dirt.

Is that what you say? Yeah.

Like, sometimes when they're rude, or I'm just like, don't stare much. I'm that person. Sometimes, like, I am. I'm passive aggressive, and my fiance's like, no, ksana. You are just aggressive, aggressive. Sometimes there's no passive aggressiveness.

Oh, classical.

When they need it. When they need that. Aggressive, aggressive. I like to call people out because then they brings attention to, like. Oh. And maybe that will help them in the next time they see someone that they're, like, not used to seeing or whatever. But it's those people that come when I say, thank you for your service. And I'm like, What? So they automatically assume and associate someone with amputees or something like that is automatically because of military. And that's what it was. And I don't know if it's because it helps them process of how and what could have happened to someone's legs and why they are the way they are. Please don't do that. I mean, I know I'm a badass and I look tough, but I'm. No, don't just assume and say thank you. Because the. On the other side of that is I say, oh, I'm not in the service. And like, oh, oh, okay. And then just walk away. So it's like, okay, well, may I ask what happened? That's like, you could just do it that way if you weren't in the military. I just assumed because you look like a badass that you could just say that and, like, it's okay to ask. You don't have to just stare and because you're uncomfortable, like, it's. The only way is I have my legs. I was hiding my legs. I had the foam and the nylons to try and hide it, and I realized I was bringing the wrong attention and the negative stares, and people were just. They couldn't figure out, like, well, what's wrong with me? Why do I walk? Like, I got something up my back or something. And that's because they couldn't see what I was working with. And so I decided to. Spores helped me find the strength of accepting who I am and seeing it. My running partner, who looks so cool with his legs, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. So they can see the components of it.

Yeah, it's cool. I actually really appreciate that piece. Is like, I love that, like, insight, which is like, kind of bring whatever it is to the forefront. Bring it to the light. Because, you know, as you've. As you've also articulated, we all have dark tunnels.

Yeah.

And your mom helped you find, you know, the light through that tunnel is one of your insights. And so, like, just kind of bringing things into the light. For me at least when I bring something to the light, then it's like, oh, well, it's so exhausting trying to carry this thing around. When I bring it to the forefront, into the light, and other people are like, oh, is that why you're all stressed out? Oh, okay, now I understand. Cool. Yeah, I get stressed out too. Thanks for letting me know.

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Which one?

Okay, your rose tattoo. I think there's a segue here. Can you talk about one of your. The way that you have conceptualized that a rose is just a rose and your rose tattoo.

So I am Aretha Franklin fan and there was a song that just hit my heart and I identified so much with it. A specific lyric which is, a rose is still and always will be a rose doesn't matter what form it's in. So that. Well, she said that my metaphor and taken in the way I interpret it was, yeah, you're right, it doesn't matter a rose. Whether it's a dead rose, a thriving, beautiful colored rose, or halfway dying rose, it's will always be a rose still. And that kind of helped me. So I got this tattoo specifically placed over a scar that I had. No way I received. That scar was super traumatic in that literally, Mike, this was a scar that happened so recently when my mom adopted me. I was still picking out the stitches up until a few months after, like, I was in America. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I got it finally and showed my mom and like, that's how recent that situation happened from when she adopted me. And it was only going to get worse if she didn't get me then. And it's a rose that is thriving on one side and is transforming into a dying black and white rose and kind of frailing away. And it says, a rose is still and always will be a rose on the words on the sides of it. And that was for me to remember when I look at that, not to see the scar, but to see that no matter what was taken away from you, that you're still, you're still worth it, you're still deserve love, and you still are a person and you still can love yourself.

What do you do to love yourself? Like, how do you practice that?

I sweat it out, not gonna lie. I just sweat, work out. I just. I just have to go and throw some weights and release that energy and stuff. And I recently, I'm really getting into like my me time, which is like my 3,000 step skincare routine. And it's not just because, like, of doing that. It's like the process I'm in the. It's kind of going back to counting. And when I'm doing each, each process of it is kind of just like not focusing on Anything else? Just focusing on what I'm putting on and just that process, like 10 minutes and all that kind of stuff and. And then the other side is so that girly girl side and then the just work out. To be honest, I've got a lot of anger. I was an angry racer and I was just a very angry kid. I think people will learn why. And I didn't know why I was angry and it wasn't directed to one specific thing of anger. It was just anger. I don't know if you've seen oh gosh, Inside out, that cart, like that animated show about the emotions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really clever.

My favorite one guy was the angry father side.

Yeah, right.

I was like, yes, I get him. Because it's so raw, it's so emotional and so real. And I was just that angry kid and I got to release that in.

Sports you would use. You would come from that place, you could express that the intensity of anger in working out. And so that's one of the ways.

It probably because I got the release.

Yeah, it was a let go. So there's also this interesting little meditative process that you had like this full presence with, with the anger and intensity and the physical movement and all the attention required that there is a release valve in there for you. I'm not suggesting that that is healthy or that that is like a way to heal, but you are using it, right?

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because like you're saying you're not suggesting it to heal. I had some injuries and you know, it's really scary and I'm going to have to find ways to heal. And this is the real honest truth because my coping in my therapy for a lot of stuff right now is sports and training and just that's my escape and I'm injured.

What's going that goes away.

Exactly.

That's right. Yeah. So.

And that's.

So you're aware of it. Yeah, I think. Well, you're going to need another tool, right? You know?

Yeah. Well, it's coffee. I love coffee and I have espresso machine and so I'm just going to have to steam milk 24 7.

Okay. So you've been through highs and lows as all of us have. I think yours are really unique. And your lows are pretty damn low. And your highs are pretty damn high, you know, like pretty lucky. I don't know what it's like to stay and on a podium, you know, a global podium like you have. And so. And I also don't know the lows that you've. I don't. I haven't lived in your body. So my point is, though, how do you think about mindset? How do you think about the way that you approach an event or events in your life?

I don't know. This is honestly something that is kind of like a new territory for me, and I'm still learning to navigate it and still trying to find the. How do I approach the. Approach it in that way. And the mindset of it. It's going to sound so weird, but, like, I'm so thankful for what I. What I experienced and what I went through and my mindset, instead of being so angry like I was at that time, because what I lived and what I experienced and when I now. These are tools I have because I walk that path. I now know when nothing's gonna get as bad as that. First of all. And now what I'm doing here, I'm in complete control and can have the option to choose how I want to approach this. And there's sometimes where it's good and sometimes it's not.

That type of taking responsibility, I think is probably right at the center. And that, unless you have advice, I don't know.

I have no idea.

No, that sounds. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. I would not dare to give you advice, but I think that, that. That sounds like, okay, that's probably a pretty powerful place to come from. Like, I'm gonna. I'm in control of how I'm gonna use my mind. I'm in control of how I'm gonna work with my emotions. I'm in control of how I'm going to show up. And so it feels like that would be a really powerful orientation to come from. And then you've also got, like, this other really powerful. I think there's a dovetail here, is that it's a quote in your book. I feel like the theme that people focus on in the story of a Paralympian is the hardship and not the athleticism. That's the most frustrating thing on Earth. It's like, orphan girl. No. Leg skier. That's always first. It pisses me off to the core because, excuse me, I'm not an orphan anymore. I have an amazing family. Stop using that as a line. And my legs are what created the opportunity for me to be an athlete. I'm not missing legs. I guarantee you, 99% of Paralympians are not viewing themselves in that way that the media is portraying them. We've turned into inspiration Porn. In some ways, if people could see the behind the scenes conversation that we have, they would better understand. So like, pretty rad insight. So like when I say that to you, what do you mean?

Like when you think of an athlete like Serena Williams or Michael Jordan, first thing that pops into 90% of people's minds is what they've achieved and the go greatest of all time. But when you think of a Paralympian and you think, you think about, oh well, what happened to your body, where did you come from? And it's beyond frustrating to be constantly seen not by what you're doing, what your actions are, what you have done with your life, despite of where you come from, the path you walked. And there's still the past, people want to focus on that. And there's this discrepancy on the way we view professional athletes, businessmen, business, women. I mean it's not just in athletes, it happens everywhere and people kind of pity in some ways and have this like very different approach and just want to change the tone and the conversation and the dialogue of Paralympic athletes. The sweat equity is exactly the same as professional athletes, as Olympic athletes in, in just not just athletes, like I said, but like also in business world, like you go and get a degree, college degree, you work your steps up and you're a business owner or which a CEO. Whatever it is, where you come from, it's important, it's shaped you, but it's not your identity of who you are, it's exactly what you're doing from this in the moment, in your actions.

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I think that's where I'm very lucky because I've had people ask, where's this all insight come? Where do you like? But I think it's the first seven and a half years of my life, I didn't have a voice. I was just an observer of my environment and of how people, like good and bad people acted and all different types of. I saw a lot of different experiences and I internalized and just think that. And then lived in philosophically in very metaphor ways.

Well, no child would. You would not want your child. There's no child that we would ever like.

No, you want them to share their voice, to make Jesus.

What you live, though, is like. I mean, it's. It's childhood hell. I don't know another way of thinking.

But there were some really good times, too. Like, I've had. Yeah, really incredible memories too. And it's funny how those are. Even though there weren't that many memories of those incredible amazing times. They're stronger than the 3 billion times more bad that I experienced, if that makes sense at all.

What an incredible survival strategy that is. Or like, not a natural strategy is to hold on to those wonderful moments. And it doesn't mitigate the others, but it's like. It's almost like this counterbalance that you figured out is like, no, I need to also hold on to these and savor these wonderful moments and make sure that they're close to the surface as part of, like, survival. And I also hear you use the word lucky a bunch.

Oh, God, yeah, that's true. In the title of the book is Pretty Damn Lucky.

Is that, like, a flaw? Is that a grounded philosophy for you? That I feel pretty damn lucky in life?

I mean, I'm pretty lucky. I. I don't know what else you explained besides just luck. The chance that my mom saw a picture of me and she tried to get me when I was five is when she learned about me. Ukraine closed adoptions and put a moratorium on all the foreign adoptions, and there's a ban, and the US did the same thing. I don't know any other word except luck. Because during those two years, everyone was telling her to just, you can go to Russia, you can get a baby. You wanted a baby. You can have a kid in, like a month. You don't know when this is going to happen. You don't know when, if she'll still be alive and all this stuff. And she waited for me. That's luck in that moment, because I didn't control that.

I get confused by luck, and I get confused because I don't know what to think about luck, really. So I'm learning from you here because I just don't know what to think about it because people say, I've been lucky or, like, that you've been lucky or whatever. And I go, I don't know, because there's. I could. I could follow it the other way and say bad luck where you were born, you know, and the conditions there at the orphanage. Or good luck that you had a mom, good luck that you're born with, you know, the. Some sort of ability to be super resourceful, like whatever genetic coding that might have. So good luck, bad luck, I don't know. But where I. But I hear you saying, no, I'm lucky, and I go, oh, that's you also paying attention or attending to the favorable parts of your life and. And amplifying those. And so then I. I see that working, and then. Are you familiar with the. The Zen farmer story, the parable?

No, because I still live under a rock.

Okay, so once upon a time, as most Zen parables might start, you know, there's an old Farmer who had, who was working his crops for many years. And then his horse ran away. And upon hearing that news, his neighbors all came to visit and they said, oh, such bad luck, you know, and they said sympathetically to him, you know, you must be really upset.

Yeah.

And the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the next day the horse returns bringing, you know, with it other wild horses. And you know, then the neighbors come and they're like, oh my God, how wonderful. Like, your horse returned and you received two more. Like, this is amazing. And he says, we'll see, you know, good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the next day his son tried to ride, you know, one of the untamed horses. And then he was thrown off and he broke a leg. And the neighbors came back and said, oh my gosh, so sorry to hear about your son, you know, and that he can't help you with farming. And this is terrible. And then, you know, what? Bad luck. And then the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the last day of this parable, the military officials come through the village and they're taking all the young men who are able bodied to be able to, you know, to work in the military. And they pass them over because his legs were broken. And then all the neighbors come running back and say, oh my gosh, congratulations, you know, your son, you know, he's not going to war and this is like great news, you must be so happy. And the man, the farmer says, you know, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And so that Zen parable like sticks with me like, I don't know, you.

Think it's a mindset because he didn't choose, he didn't like write the negative and bad, like bad luck yet. He just, it's kind of. Yeah. So maybe that's what it is. Like, like we said, there's like power in word. If you like put these words out there from your mouth, it's like, yeah, it's bad luck. You're going to see all the bad in it.

Only. So how do you do that? How do you, how do you speak to yourself like your self talk? Because there's words that we put out and then there's words that we use in. And so how do you use your, your internal narrative to be a badass?

Well, to be honest, my internal narrative is pretty hard on myself. I. It's not.

Okay, so high self, high self critique.

Yeah. Like when I.

Or self doubt or both let's break it apart. You say I've got lots of self doubt. I've got lots of self critical. Like, it's. It's not. It's not wonderful to be in my head sometimes. It's not probably all the time because.

No, not all the time. There's just.

It's.

It's like an event or, like, so.

It'S prior to an event.

Prior to an event. And then some of my teammates just get really frustrated with me sometimes because even if I won, all I can focus on is that thing that went wrong, and I'm mad about that. That's the only thing I can't let go.

Okay, so that got you good. Let's be clear. That's not good enough. I can do that better. What is. Come on, Kana, let's go. Get your shit together. Right? Like that type of thing got you good. Whether it's in the weight room, on the track, holding a gun, whatever it might be, like, that got you good. And then it sounds like that has facilitated intense preparation but. But debilitates the ability to have freedom and peace. So there's a. There's this. You've gotten. You are literally the most decorated Paralympic athlete in the Winter Games. And so. And you've won more medals than any other Olympian in the Winter Games. I think that that's a fair data point. Right?

I'm sorry, Apollo. Ohno.

What's up, Apollo? He's a friend. And so. That's awesome. Yeah. And so. All right, so here you are, and you're saying, yeah, what got me here is I kick my own ass a lot, and I don't wish this on anybody. What's the next level for you? Like, would you. Would you train your daughter? Would you train her in this approach? No, you would not.

Like, I would have her be proud of herself and let herself celebrate the good and the win or the really good moments. And we talk about the good moments first. I feel like for her, where. For me, what I need to do more and better of is focus on the good things on that race and wow. And then like, okay, but I really didn't like this. Instead of flip it and focus on the bad, and the first thought is bad.

So that's what you're working on?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

But then it's weird because I think this is where by the vibrant that I was grew up in, and my neurological system, the way it's wired, is so used to being told negative, bad things. And what I'm used to is proving Myself wrong, proving them wrong, fighting for the food, fighting to survive. So it became this weird push, pull, comfort level of self doubt in a way, when I doubt myself, I'm not doubting myself. It's like even though I'm talking to myself, I'm not perceiving it as my voice. Oksana, what are you talking like, oh my God, you're not ready for this at all. You haven't done. You didn't make every single day count. Look how strong they look. And I'm focusing on all this other opponents strengths and giving them the benefit of the doubt. Well, they had a bad race. I just got lucky. And it's this internal dialogue that I process it all while I'm in the sport itself. And then outside I'm learning how to process it as a holistic approach of me and myself. Oxana as a whole, not just in the race. That makes sense.

You're hitting it. You just opened up like the narrative for, I don't know, 90% of people, which is downgrading one's own history and body of work, attributing. And I'm going to go, I'm going to be antagonistic to you a little bit attributing a little bit of luck to your success and skill to them. So the reason they're so good is because they are badasses. And you know, I just kind of got lucky because, you know that maybe you, you got a little quicker start than you normally would have or whatever happened. Like you squinted at one of the targets and it went in. You know, you're supposed to squint, but.

You got to lucky shots.

Of course it does. Yeah.

But it's because of the follow through. You have to have good like body first. But there's some good lucky hits.

Yeah, so, so, but that, that equation of downgrading your body of work and upgrading the skill of the other people is a disaster. Right. It's, it's like the substrate of anxiety. It's the substrate of, of self doubt. And then if you add a little self criticalness on it, it becomes pretty toxic. And I, I want to make sure I heard you correctly. Like you speak to yourself in a way that you would never let somebody else speak to you that way. Did you say that or did I just kind of make that up in my head?

I would never say that to a friend, like, or like I would never let a friend be spoken to or thought of that way.

But yeah, that's, that's really interesting, isn't it? Because you, you, you take care of other people. Right. The way Lainey took care of you, probably the way your mom help support you. Right. So you know that well, but I think most people would recognize that too is like they would never. They speak to themselves in a way that they would never speak that way to another person. Like if I say to myself, come on Gervais, get your shit together. What is wrong with you by the way? I'm done saying that to myself. Like I've reached a certain point in my love of myself that I was like, yeah, I gotta be done with that, that type of thinking. And so I would not let somebody else talk to me that way and I would never coach somebody that way. So I. That's when I knew it was really twisted.

Yeah.

And how are you going to let go of that? Like, how do you imagine? Well, hold on. Do you want to let go of that? I think I heard you say that you do, but I don't want to presume.

Well, I do because. Well, like, so it's weird because I only do that in the sporting environment. I don't do that outside of a sport, outside of a start line and racing and before not a start line, but the pre start line area and the night before and I guess, yeah, so I'm only doing it in that moment when I'm expected of something, I guess. And you know, it's interesting because. And it's trying to find the words because in my mind I'm like, this is. I don't know how to put like a word to a feeling because it's not necessarily one of that. It's a feeling that's very similar to when I was in Ukraine. And your back is against the wall. And it's a very familiar feeling. For me, it's impossible to just, okay, well work through it, throw that out because it's really toxic. I think I found a way for me that. How to just harness it to that line of where it's good. But I don't live in what the words I'm speaking to myself. And I don't actually take that to heart outside of that race and view myself that way in the mirror at all. And I don't know, maybe this is what I need to do to be for next season when I am working on my comeback. This injury is get rid of that. Because we had a sports psychologist that he. And I think part of it is because, to be honest is because my processing and healing still is in that moment of sport. And so it's processing the memories, working through them, through that emotion of your backs against the wall, and you have to, like, fight. I don't know. It's like, it's just a weird twist. Little ball that is. I have found how to shape this ball to be a positive ball, hopefully.

And I'll just use the ball bouncing metaphor. Like, there's an important question, like, the ball that I'm bouncing now, do I want to keep bouncing this ball, or is there. Is there. Is there a different one I want to pick up? Because I know this one. I know where the flat spots are. I know where the bounce is kind of weird, like. But is there another? It's a weird metaphor that we're trying to make come alive here a little bit. But, like, I like the vine metaphor a little bit. Like, I know how to swing on this vine, but the longer I swing on the vine, the more momentum I lose. And at some point, I've got to take that vulnerable step to go to a new vine. And I'm not suggesting this is the one for you, but, yeah, I think most of us can recognize that we don't want to speak to ourselves. We don't beat ourselves up. Yeah, like, we don't want to. We don't want to do that because it just kind of leaves a death by a thousand cuts.

What I was going to say is, like, in the book I talk about our sports psychologist I worked with for the biathlon side, when I realized the transition of not racing so angry and the sustainability of it, he had me put my hands out and he said, think of something that makes you angry that you feel like is your power and your secret power and making you strong when you race. And he put pushing on my hands and had me resist against it. And I could resist, but not for a very long time. And then he's like, think of something that makes you happy. And so for me, instantly, I thought of my mom and Lainey because that was just these explosively strong, powerful things. And it was. At first he pushed down, but I was able to resist against him and was to see sustaining that resistance from him. And that's where that moment when I felt that physical. Oh, I feel it. I see what you're saying. That's, I think, is what for me, because I'm a physical person. I have to experience it and feel it to get to, like, find that new ball kind of thing. And I think it is with this, and it's just learning how to thin.

Okay, awesome. Last thoughts. What do you want to Say to.

Your mom, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I don't. Honestly, I have no idea. Because literally there is not one single word that exists in any dictionary in this world, in any language that describes who she is and could ever describe the emotions and what she means to me and who she is, because they don't exist yet in this language. But I'd say thank you for picking me out of all the people, for not giving up on me, for saving me, and I'm sorry for the gray hair that you got before we left Ukraine that month. And just, she's the reason why she saved my life. She literally saved my life. And then she saved my life again by introducing the world of sword forced from me and realizing this is going to be her outlet to release this when she doesn't know how to articulate things until she finds it.

I want to encourage people to read the book, your book, the Hard Parts. One of the things I'm going to ask is to. For an introduction to your mom. Your mom is epic. And the way that she kind of put it all out there and fought for you and like, didn't know what she was doing, but trusted.

That's the crazy thing. She, she doesn't. She never made a conscious decision once. She's the kind of person, like, she also fought her own battles as a female at that time, getting a PhD and going through that and just in the very male dominated world and then adopting a single parent when she's being constantly challenged, like, is something wrong with you? What's wrong with your mind? Why are you not married? Why you can't do this? She had to put a man down on the adoption papers because you have to have a father. And she was like, now she's like, I don't know why I didn't put like Bruce Willis or I don't know, some like big person down or something. But. But yeah, like, she's, she's incredible. And everything I am is by watching her fight and not give up for me.

What do you hope for?

I. All I want is. I want to be that person behind the scenes where no one knows who or what or why this one part of this world is better and this, oh my gosh, this sport is incredible. Or I just want to, I want to leave my imprint. I don't want to leave a record because that is going to get diminished at some point. I just want to leave an imprint of a better world. And it's better because I had one little ounce of grain of sand. To put into that giant pot that we all contribute to. But I don't want to be known for that.

Yes.

I don't know.

More of that, please, in the world. Okay. It all comes down to.

All comes down to belief.

If you knew what I knew, you.

Would never give up.

You are awesome. I believe everything that you've said, you know, so there's still some unlocks that you're working through, which is like, I think the unlock from badass to something. I wonder what that is. It's like you don't let go of being a badass, but like, what's that next version?

Yeah.

What's that next iteration of you? And it's probably going to be back. Returning back to that feeling of being at home everywhere you go. You know, that sense of wholeness.

Yeah. Everything that I felt when I saw my mom for the first time in Ukraine was home.

Oh, my God. I think that, that what you just did is that feeling is probably the most power, one of the most powerful. Anger is powerful. So I don't, I don't want to diminish it, but it's just like when you play with fire, you get burned.

Yeah.

And it's not sustainable and it's draining and, and, and, but that feeling is like benevolent and life giving and amazing and far deeper. And so I wonder how you'll play with that insight. Let's catch up again. Okay. Like, I'm in your corner. I love what you're doing. I want people to buy your book, be part of your community. I feel fortunate to spend this time. I'm stoked that you're doing work on the inner game with sports. Psych. That's awesome. I wish everybody that same commitment in their own life. And then I just want again, I want to say thank you.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so, so much. I feel like I could talk to you for like three hours. Thank you so much for letting me blabble on.

Yeah, ditto. And then I want to make sure I get connected to your mom as well.

Absolutely. Although she's the kind of person that literally, I guess the best way to describe her is she's like, you'll know her whole life story, the checkout line. And I'm like, mom, they don't need to know where you went to school and just like what you did and what you ate last night. But to sum up, my mom, she is one of those people that she'll give you the shirt off her back and if it's that color you hate, she will find you that favorite collar shirt after she took hers off. Like she's just that person.

That's really cool. All right, so where do you want to hope people go to like to support you and be part of your community? Is it, is it social? Is it a website? Obviously it's the book social media at.

Oksana Masters kind of everywhere. Or yeah, learn about. You can learn a little bit about me, but I really hope that you feel empowered when you read those books. My story to find your own superpower within the hard parts you have and tackle the world.

All right, let's go do it. I appreciate you, Oksana. Thank you so much again. Okay, bye. Cheers.

Next time on Finding Mastery, Tim Ferriss joins Dr. Gervais for a refreshingly honest conversation about navigating self, doubt, ambition and the art of letting go. And why play might be the antidote to modern overwhelm. Join US on Wednesday, August 27th at 9:00am Pacific.

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