NFL Legend Greg Olsen on Helping Children Thrive

What if the most important part of a young athlete's experience is the car ride home? Welcome back. Or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I AM your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade and training, a high performance psychologist. Today I'm excited to share a special conversation that I had with football legend Greg Olson on his podcast, Youth Inc. And if you're not familiar with Greg, he's a football broadcaster on Fox Sports. He's a three time Pro Bowler tight end who played in the NFL for 14 seasons. Now, alongside his career as a broadcaster, Greg launched a media company called Youth, Inc. Which has a flagship podcast by the same name that focuses on the changing world of youth sports. And in that space of youth sports, Greg is someone to pay attention to. This was a fantastic conversation all about fostering environments for kids to thrive, and I'm really excited to share it with you here. So with that, let's dive right into this conversation from Youth Inc. With Greg Olson.

There is that moment after those games you love getting in the car with your parents after a win, after you're the star, you score 20, you are the man, everyone's patting you on the back. You get in the car, man, you were so good, Mike, let's go. Those are the dream car rides.

Best practice, according to science, is to not address the game on the car ride home. And I don't know if it sounds like you would flat out disagree with that. And the reason it's best practice is to ask the kid, give them some sort of invitation, do you want to talk about it or not? Which is a deeper level of control. I know that, and I don't follow that practice the way that you might think I do. So what I do when I get in the car is I say, how was it? And that's still alluding to the game. And then if there's not a whole lot of response, I'll say, any unlocks? And so I'm just looking for the top level kind of opening that he might go into. And he says, no, no, there's nothing. And I'll say, all right, do you want to talk about now or later? Later, dad. So then I got to find my moment. He says, yeah, let's talk about it now. Let's talk about now. Then I'm asking the same types of questions. Did you have fun? No, I got my tail handed to me. Okay, so what do you think? How can you put yourself in a better position next Time. So that's back to preparation. So it's the same thing. And I will recommend that well before any car ride home, the message is very clear. I love you for who you are, not what you do, but the role there is for our kids to be able to find a bit of a sanctuary. That's our role as a parent. And the car ride is such a nice little bubble. Hopefully there's two main variables to work from. Support, then challenge, support and challenge. And knowing which role to inhabit is really important in a highly emotionally charged car ride home. After we're talking about difficult emotions, not the easy ones that you mentioned earlier. With highly charged, difficult emotions that are flowing the way the brain works is that when we're flooded with emotions, it pulls resources from critical thinking. That's a good evolutionary design. When I've got to really respond emotionally, I lose some of my faculty to think clearly and creatively and critically. So when we're asking our kids about what happened, they don't know. The part of their brain that's flooded with emotions don't allow them to think clearly. So when they say they don't know, they really mean it. When they say I don't want to talk about it, they really mean they don't have the words to talk about it. So it's the right time, is the place to support and I don't know what are the ways that you found best to support your kids in those.

So where I find it the hardest to have that kind of debrief and settle down and then have positive conversations when I'm just the dad. I am not responsible for the team. I have not been at practices all week. I'm not living and dying. I, I want the team to win. I want the team to play well. I want your kid to do well. I want my kid to do well. I want the team to have success. That's just my nature. But I'm not responsible for the product on the field. I'm not responsible for the product on the court. I'm not responsible even necessarily for my own kids performance, necessarily. Like that's the coach's role. I'm in the stands, yes, I'm. And when we get in the car, like I'm going to give my kid my feedback. Hey, you didn't hustle. It's good. But it's always going to start with, did you prepare your most leading into this competition? Did you give all of your energy and focus and did you do what you were coached to do? That's where all My stuff's going to start with we're not going to talk about why you jumped off the wrong foot on your layup or hey, you got to hold the ball higher on your shot or whatever the sport is. I'm not going to start there. Everything I start with is did you have a good attitude, were you a good teammate and did you give incredible effort? That takes no ability to.

And the principle there is that you're going to focus on the controllables.

That's it.

Those, those three elements you just mentioned are 100% under the kids control. And so when you do those types of questions, you're putting them back into a power seat that, oh, I have responsibility for the way that I do it, that directly can relate to the outcome. So it, in the long game of life, we want our children, we want our teammates, we want our loved ones to feel like they have a sense of power in this topsy tursy world. And so how do you have a sense of power? By knowing what you can control and committing to mastering those very few elements. So as a, as a parent coach, there you go. Like that's a great strategy.

Yeah, I don't wear my kids out at practices that out. I ask them like three questions. How'd practice go? And I can always tell by their body. Every kid, what do they say? It was good, it was good. I can tell based on how they say the words it was good whether it was good or not.

Yeah, right.

How'd you do? And then the only really question I asked them every single time is did you get any feedback from your coach that you thought was worthwhile that I should know? And it could be, hey, we're going to try you at a new position this week. It could be, I like the way you're throwing, I don't like the way you're hitting, I don't like where your.

Glove is, need more footwear, whatever.

Just is there something that, did the coach say anything to you today that seemed like would be worthwhile for me to know that we can keep in mind as we prepare on our own?

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And we try to remind our kids all the time that a good game does not make you a better kid. A bad game does not make you a worse kid. It doesn't make us love less. Best player on the team, worst player on the team. And again, does that always come across in our emotions and how we handle the moment? I'd be probably not right. Like we all. At least I'll speak for myself. Maybe not everyone.

Here's a couple principles that I think will inform what I would consider and if I'm standing on good Science, an ideal car ride home. One is, if you think about that mechanism of support and challenge that this is a time to support. They're not able to think clearly and critically because they're oftentimes flooded with emotions. So listen for the emotions. Create space for them to share and process. And if they don't want to or if it's overwhelming, that's okay. It doesn't mean that the conversation evaporates and goes away forever. Just you'll find another time later after a shower, whatever it might be. They just need a little time to process. And then if you can ask questions about things that they are ultimately in control of, 100% under their control, you're putting them back in the driver's seat in life. And if you can figure out with them any sort of unlock about the long game of life, great. But sometimes you're using the unlock in the game to better understand a first principle that you're trying to create, which is like, did you go for it? Did you have high energy? Were you a great teammate? You know, and then there's some information and perspectives you can share from there.

I think that's the beauty of the sport though, right? Like, that's the part of the sport I love is like they get back on the horse and go, like, I want to see how my team responds after a bad weekend tournament. I want to see how my team, how my kids come back to practice after we lose or after we fumble or like, those are the moments that I love. Like, that's where I feel like the most growth comes. You come and beat everybody by 100, we show up to practice the next week, I'm like, just keep doing what we're doing. I guess, like, how do I get you to be convinced that we need to continue to elevate when all you find is success?

I asked a four time Olympian, Kerry Walsh Jennings, one of the greatest volleyball players to ever play the game, how she thought about when mistakes would happen in a game for her. And she says, no different than when mistakes happen in practice. So the point there and then I'll give you the takeaway that I think is brilliant. That she said. But the point there is the way you practice ought to be the same way that you play, which I think you would nod your head to. And I'm going to reduce this down to something very simple in a moment. But the takeaway was that she was looking at the mistake as a radical gift. It's an immediate gift of information about what she needs to get better at, oh, I need to, I need to be able to open my first foot, to be able to pass better. I need to be able to track the ball better. So what coaches can do is coach the thing immediately, the skill, if they can, and support the child at the same time. So at practice or on game day, I think there's like a three second window where you can make or break confidence. If the kid makes a mistake and it's not framed as like, oh my God, this is great. There's really good information here. Keep your left arm open or whatever the technical skill might be. If it's seen as like, oh man, you just let everybody down and eyes roll, clipboard gets thrown down. In those three seconds when they look to the sidelines, which is a problem, you want them to look inward or look to their teammates before they look to the adult, before they look to the authority figure to see if they're okay. It's about a three second window where you make or break their confidence. And so as it all the way reduces down to these moments, if we can frame it in a way that's an opportunity to get better because the information is rich. That kid is going to forever look for the, for the nuggets to help him or her get better.

That's such a good point. That's super helpful because I'm a big in the moment corrector. I know a lot of people say, like, yeah, we'll talk about it later. Like what I've seen with young kids, if I wait for an hour for practice to be over and then I pull you aside and say, hey, remember on that whatever play you stepped with your right foot, we got to step with our inside foot because we got to get. They don't even know what I'm. They can't even remember what play we ran. So, like, there is the, the I, I do believe, like in the moment, the correct way, but like in the moment, real time, especially in practice when we can kind of stop, okay, reset, run it again. Here's why now in the game, we can't. In the game, we got to go on to the next play. The clock's running the clock. It's just, it's a different element. But I'm with you about practice. Like, our practices should be harder than the games. They should be more intense than the games. It should feel more pressure packed in the games. So when they get to the games, it's like, let's go, we're good.

So there's two parts there. Like, if you want your teams or athletes to respond after a quote unquote bad game. I don't even frame games as good and bad because I think it's information. It's different information.

Yeah.

So after a tough game, let's call it right now if you want them to respond well, that's taught in how they respond to a mistake in practice. And if it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, great. This is, I'm so glad this is happening. Now I'm going to tell you an interesting story. Body mastery is brought to you by David. Protein nutrition is foundational to high performance and well being and being consistent with whole food choices is really important. Sometimes that's tricky, especially when you're on the go. One small practice that helps me on those types of days is having a smart reliable nutrition option ready when I need it. And that's why I'm a big fan of David Protein bars. The Gold Bar is their flagship product. It's seriously impressive ratio. It's got 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories, 0 grams of sugar and it's formulated with precision. High protein density, great texture and flavors that make it easy to stick with the team here at Finding Mastery, they love it. They're just ripping through them in the finder mastery lab. Chocolate chip cookie dough and peanut butter seem to be their favorite go tos. And for those who don't want to compromise performance just because you're on a short time or in between meals, this is a solution that's worked incredibly well for me and the team here at Finding Mastery. They've built something with rigor and alignment that really stands out in a crowded, sometimes ambiguous space like nutrition. David bars are now available in major retailers like Walmart and Target. And if you'd like to try them directly and get a special offer for being a Finding Mastery Listener, head to davidprotein.com Finding Mastery where right now if you buy four packs you'll get the fifth for free. You also get free shipping and then 10% off every order. Again that's davidprotein.com Finding Mastery I hope you'll check them out. This is just got back from Paris supporting an Olympic team, women's beach volleyball and it was win or go home one of those matches. So we're in the end game in the, in the finals. I think this was just before quarterfinals actually and the athlete I would always ask be about four hours before the game. Is there anything that we need to bring up? So we do an activation where they get loose, get warm and then we do a little mindset work. Let's call that 11am and then they play like, I don't know, 9pm It's a late tournament. And I'd say, is there anything else or is there anything that we need to bring forward to work with as a team? And one of the athletes just breaks out into tears. This is one of the best athletes in the world. We're going into a finals type of moment and she breaks out into tears and she says, you know, everyone here has put so much work into it. Everyone here has dedicated so much time for this team. I'm afraid I'm going to let everybody down. You felt this. Our kids feel this. One of the best in the world at the Olympics feels this. And one of our coaches is esl. He's. He doesn't speak English very well. He's one of the best coaches in the world. And the whole room, there's about six of us, the room is like full with emotions. You could feel everybody else's emotions. And everyone's like, we got you. You know, that type of thing. Don't like, let it, cut it loose, be free. We'd rather go down if you da da da, like, we got you no matter how this goes. And he didn't understand all the nuances and he looked at her and he said this. This level of honesty happening now is better than happening in the game. Do the work ahead of time so that you can get free during the game. Do the work in practice to coach resilience, to coach mistakes, to coach, you know, bbl, bad body language. Coach that stuff in an excellent way, in a caring way, in a strong way, in practice, so they know how to conduct themselves when there's a little bit more intensity.

That's applicable to every level of sport. Every athlete at some point, whether it's fifth grade basketball or Olympic gold medal game, everyone has that feeling at some point.

And as a coach, you're spending, in some respects, more time with my son than I am, for sure. And so the role that the coach takes is so incredibly important. And what I'm counting on you, if you will, if you were coaching my son, is to teach him how to be a man. That is my job. Yep. Right. That is our community's job. But you hold. And if it's not a boy, it's a girl, like, whatever.

Yeah, right.

To teach them how to be a great adult. And what that means more than anything, more than touchdowns, more than whatever, is, do you have care in your life? Do you care about People and about people's future. Do you have compassion? Do you have strength? Are you kind and strong? Are the two variables and the principles. I'm always grounding my. My kids with kind and strength. And that's so I. When I'm choosing a club or a coach for my son or we're choosing as a family, those two variables must be in place from the coach that he's going to support core principles that maybe I can't teach or that are really important to the family.

We've talked so much about the role as a parent coach. So now take the coach part out of it. Let's just talk about, like, the. The role of an a. Of a young athlete and just the parent. My rule is I coach each one of my kids teams one season of each. So I do like my son's football team and do my other son in the spring's baseball team, and then I do my daughter's winter basketball team. At school, I'm in charge of one sport a season. Each one of my kids gets me for one season. Then the other seasons, you go play for somebody else, and I'm dad, they need someone to help, great. If not, it's up to them. What I find then is in those seasons, I'm like, okay, I'm always around. I'm always the guy. At practice, you're all over your kid. I'm like, you know what? Today at baseball practice, I'm just going to drop my kids off and I'll come back and pick you up. But then I'll be like, all right, guys, I'll be back in a little bit. They're like, you're not staying. I'm like, so here I am. I'm like, I think I'm giving you a little space because I feel like sometimes everything you ever do, I'm there at practice running it. And you need a little space. Go play without me. I'm not looking over your shoulder. You don't need to look in the stands. Go to two hours of practice. Tell me how it is after. And then they kind of look at me. They're like, why aren't you going to stay and watch? So I don't know. So I guess that's my question. You. Is there the right mix of always being around? Never being around, obviously, is a whole different conversation and, like, finding a middle ground. Like, what does that relationship look like?

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Sounds like you're describing like government.

Pretty much. So laissez faire parenting is like a kid, go do whatever you're gonna do. Like I've got my hobbies, I've got my things, and my things are actually really important to me. And I don't care what you do. Like you're gonna figure out life like I figured out life. So laissez faire parenting, that's not you. No, you are not. And there. The research is not supportive.

They're laughing off camera.

Yeah, that is not you. You are not that. Then there's authoritarian and authoritative. Authoritarian is just what it sounds like. Kind of like a dictator. Sit down, don't talk. This is not good enough. That's not good enough. Like these are the rules. You're going to follow them no matter what. There's a dogma, there's a strictness, it's an imposement of will on the child. Research does not support that parenting style much either. They tend to have later in life more deeper and more problems. Authoritative is your style that you're describing. So when the listener is feeling this right now, they're feeling and listening to how you're speaking as an authoritative parent, which is. It's. I'm going to be clear, I'm going to be direct, I'm going to have Passion in it. I see you, kid, but I'm still bringing some intensity in the way that I think is right. And so the research would suggest that that is the best parenting style. So the first and foremost is to know your parenting style. Everyone wants to be authoritative, like I just described, but the most important thing is to know your child. What does your child need? Support. And then challenge them in an uncommon way. Support, support, support, then challenge. Support, support, support, then challenge. And if they don't want you to be there, great. If they want you to be there, great.

The thing that's weird is I'm thinking, oh, my God, you're going to be thrilled that dad's not at every. And they look and here I thinking like, oh, great idea. Just pick me up in two hours. And then they. And then I'm, I pull away and I'm like. They look at me like, why are you not staying? And I'm like, because I didn't think you wanted me to be at every practice.

And they're like, it's a little stay and watch.

I'm like, okay, I guess I will.

You know, like, well, maybe they feel safe. Maybe you get crazy if you're not around and you're like, well, how was practice? No, maybe this is not a blind spot for you.

No, no, I, I, you know this about me. There's one thing I hang my hat on is self awareness. No one has to point out my shortcomings. I have a very good grasp of them.

You are very good at this. And this is one of the great skills that you're going to pass on to your kids that I hope each listener can do is like, the whole thing. The whole thing in life rests on self awareness. How aware are you of your thoughts, your feelings, or your physiology, Your shortcomings? All of that. That's like, how aware are you? Because if you're unaware, you're a hard go in life. The second thing, that's the whole. The whole world is run on relationships. Your relationship with yourself first, your relationship with others, your relationship with experience. Both easy and hard. Success or failure, whatever. So this whole game, inside the game is really about increasing awareness, increasing skills, and increasing the quality of relationships. If we thought about those three, we're going to help build great humans moving forward.

That's a really good way to summarize it.

All right, thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community and if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to way to support is to hit the subscribe or Follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Hunch over to findingmastery.com newsletter to sign up. This show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously and the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals@findingmastery.com sponsors and remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional, so see seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.