Purpose Driven Growth with Joe Polish and Dan Sullivan - 10xTalk Episode #228

Like, I don't agree with the concept of massively transformative purpose. I said, basically, one of my purposes, at the end of each month, I have more money coming in than going out. That's one of my purposes. I find if that works, a lot of other things work.

If you'd like to join world renowned entrepreneurs at the next Genius Network event or want to learn more about Genius network, go to www.gienstruitnetwork.com. hello, Dan. How are you?

Good, Joe. And this is 10 times talk.

Yeah, yeah. So welcome everyone to 10x talk. Before this episode, I said to Dan, I go, you know, I've got a couple of different topics because we tend to go off the cuff. Not that we don't prepare. We've been preparing our whole lives. It's just I wanted to run a few topics and one of them is the role of purpose in having a successful business and a bunch of other ones. But Dan's like, let's do that one. And so that's what we're going to talk about. Dan, I often get annoyed when people say to me, you know, what's your life purpose? As if, you know, I could argue for or against it. And it's. I think a lot of people try to take their value system of their purpose in life and layer it on other people and write books and enroll people in courses and they try to create some sort of cult around what they think life is and why it should exist. And then one of the sneaky ways is that, like, what's your purpose? But it's really their purpose. Right. So I more so wanted to talk with you about how you even think about purpose. How does that apply to life? How does that apply to business? How would you define it? And then we'll get into some conversation about it.

Yeah. The other thing I've noticed is that they tend to tell a lie about their purpose because their purpose is all about saving some part of the world, you know? Yeah, I've never bought into. I said, first of all, I don't think that the world needs saving. And secondly, why don't you just tell us what you want for yourself and just a single person that's more credible to me than you're somehow massively transforming human society.

Can I ask you about that? So we'll get into the single purpose.

Like, I don't agree with the concept of massively transforming formative purpose. I said, basically, one of my purposes, at the end of each month, I have more money coming in than going out. That's one of My purposes, I find if that works, a lot of other things work.

Have you. Have you debated Peter on this topic? So what would be the distinction between. Because I really think that when people often come up with these grandiose goals of saving the world and doing something massive, it is a. Not always, I guess I can't say everything definitively. It's a cop out for working on what they really might be able to do because it's always aspirational. And it's a big, giant grandiose dream to say we're going to impact a billion people. What does that mean? Right, versus you care about your community, or there's people that are suffering and you want to go and help those individuals and people. So, like a human versus the planet is a way different thing. So you're clearly a caring individual. You know, you're not running a business that I see out destroying people or polluting rivers or damaging, you know, people in any way, shape or form. People may not agree with some of your political opinions or your thoughts on productivity or your thoughts on work or whatever, but for the most part, you have always built a business around value creation and around helping other people. So, you know, you're more of a quote unquote, philanthropic individual than many people I've met that call themselves philanthropists. Right. So how do you make the distinction between what you are really able to do, impact, help, serve, whatever, versus the excuse of I want to save the world or I want to change something? You know, I'd like to get your thoughts on that.

Well, I think as I've gone through the decades, my definition sort of changes. You know, I was thinking one day, Joe, that I only have direct access to one human being, which is me, quite frankly, I find it a full time job. Right. I mean, because I'm add, which means that sometimes I know where I am and sometimes I don't. We went to the Amen Clinic together. I think it was 2011.

Was that 2010 or 2011?

Yeah, I think it was 11. Yeah. Because we were in Hollywood for Genius network.

That was 2010.

That was 2010. So it would have been 10 that we did it. And we went down to Newport beach where Daniel Amen had his original clinic and now he's across the country. I went because a lot of my clients are ADD knowingly or not knowingly. They are. I just wanted to get a handle on what this is all about. So all three of us, Babs, you and me, we answered the questions online and we went and did the three Days of testing. I found it very useful. I tell you a story and I think I told you right at the time, but at the end of your three days, you have a meeting with a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist sort of talks about your results of the testing. And mine was a woman, woman psychiatrist. And she said, you know, there's a big separation between what you answer the questions online and what our tests reveal. She says, your life looks kind of orderly, doesn't seem to have a lot of stress to it, but when we look at your test, there's like a 10 rain circus going on inside your nervous system. And she says, what gives? And so in the course of answering the question, I told her about Strategic Coach, what we do for a living. And she says, well, I don't know who else you created this program of yours for, but she said, you sure created it for yourself. Right. And that's very true. So I think you've made reference many, many times, Joe, to this concept that we're all trying to transform ourselves from how we arrived to how we would like things to be.

Yes.

I just kind of find that a full time job because new things are always popping up. But when it comes to purpose, I have my purpose for myself which is that I should be better next year than I am this year with some measurables in there, you know, things you can actually measure. But then the other one is make Babs happy. That day when I get up in the morning, my first thought is, how am I going to make Babs happy? You know, we're married and we started the company together, but I just get an enormous amount of enjoyment out of making her happy and then be useful to the people who are paying us money. And I don't think I get too far beyond that.

So you created to go back to the brain scan story. So you created all of these tools to help you with living your life, doing what you are trying to do, figure out what it is you need to figure out. I just, while we were sitting there talking, I typed in define purpose online and it says noun, the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists in them in quotes. The purpose of the meeting is to appoint a trustee. And then verb, formal, have as one's intention or objective. And then this is interesting, it says in quotes God has allowed suffering even purposed in which I think, okay, so you know, the reason for which something is done or created, for which something exists. So you know, one of the questions I had for you, what are some of the Steps that an entrepreneur can take to discover and articulate their business purpose. And it seems to me that one of your very first tools was what you call the strategy circle.

That's number one. Yeah.

And when you were doing one on one coaching 40 plus years ago, you were taking people through this one on one before you ever started strategic coach. And you were sitting down with these individuals and you had figured out that you could help people reach their goals and their objectives and have growth if they could first off, identify the obstacles that stood in the way in this.

Identify what the measurable results are in the future.

Yes, of course. But then you would come up with the obstacles that prevented them from getting to those. Well, walk us through that, because I think that is a very purposeful tool, an exercise. And to this day, I don't know how many thousands of people that you've taught this to and you shared this. And every day there are God knows, hundreds of entrepreneurs that are probably using a strategy circle to figure stuff out.

Yeah, well, there's sort of a formula at the center of what we do with the strategy circle and that is people have a vision. So I think entrepreneurs, they're good at seeing the future and seeing themselves in the future. I think there's a certain confidence that you have to have about seeing yourself in the future that sort of differentiates an entrepreneur from other people. That much I'm pretty, pretty sure of. So what I would do is I would just pick a date in the future. It could be a year from today. It could be three years. I find three years really works because it's a bigger vision. Three year vision is a bigger vision than a one year vision. So you pick today's date and then you say this date three years from now. And we're having a discussion and you're looking back what has to happen for you to feel happy with your progress. And then I get them to, if it's just business related, then I say, okay, so what's the revenue for that year? What's some big changes that you want to make over the next three years? And define that. So what will be true on this day that's measurable three years from now? And I confine them to about five things because then it gets out of hand. So we write that down and I tell them, so what will it be like that day when this is achieved? You've hit this number, this event has happened so that they kind of buy into it visually. They can sort of see it, they can feel the feelings that they have. We take a break and we come back. I say, now, let's identify things that are happening right now that don't support that future. What are the obstacles? So it could be anything, you know, it could be. My time doesn't allow me to work on these things. So there's a time problem. I need help to do this. And I don't have the people, you know, and everything like that, don't have the money. Everything else, but you get them to identify the obstacles. So it's vision obstacles, and then they get the obstacles. And I said, okay, so that's three years off. Let's just talk about 90 days from now. Let's take a look at the obstacles and how you could get past the obstacles in the next quarter. And then they identify actions that they're going to take to do that. And that's the plan. And then you do it on a quarterly basis. So I worked out the business model. You pay me so much upfront today to do the thinking, and then every quarter when I come back, there's another check, okay? And I did that for legitimately, probably, you know, where it was a really good business, and I was making really good money probably about six, seven years before we started the workshop program. And it was good. I mean, this is $1988, but I was making 150,000, you know, but I was selling my time, so there was an upper ceiling to the time. I had to get out of a time trap. I had to do a strategy circle for myself.

Were you getting any coaching from anyone else at that time? Or was it just purely through reading and books and sitting and just doing thinking on your own and using the tools you'd already created? Like, how were you learning back then?

Well, I had babs.

And the reason I ask is that it seems to me that the trajectory of a business owner's life is books they read, habits they develop, people they hang out with. And if someone early on learns that the business model is invest in real estate, they're probably going to be a real estate investor, at least going to try to go down that path. Or if someone is early on exposed to the way to build a business is you have to go and raise capital and get investors. You know, there's that. You know, in my particular world, I got exposed to marketing early on. Writing sales copy, the way you make offers, creating, you know, senses of urgency, creating compelling messages, you know, so I start going down that path, and anyone could probably get good if they have the motivation and the desire. And entrepreneurs are Very versatile creatures. They're kind of like artists that can just take a canvas and make up almost anything. But if they stick with it and they find kind of where they have a knack and what their quote unquote wheelhouse is, they can figure out how to make almost anything work. And what I mean by that is you could sell a course on how to make money selling dog crap door to door. Not a very good business model. And you have a driven entrepreneur. And someone will figure out, I mean, it might be one in a million, but someone will figure out how to take that and actually make it work for them. So, you know, we're very influenced by who comes into our life. Ideas, concepts, books, people like that. And so I. I personally think, you know, you going and injecting yourself into. In entrepreneur's life with strategic coach and with your coaching early on, you might downplay it because I think it's hard to, when you're so close to it, to realize just how impactful your ideas can be to another person if they're good ideas. Right?

Yeah.

And you are a person that has what I would consider freaking brilliant ideas and really great ideas. And so therefore you're influential. So to bring this back to purpose, I think for anyone listening to this, you know, it's what's influencing them right now, you know.

Yeah. I don't have a direct mentor. I can't remember ever having a direct mentor at any point in my life for anything. But I'm very, very interested in how other people live their lives, and I draw a lot of lessons from that. I've told this story before. I'm a member of a big family, but I'm sort of a loner inside the family that I have, or older siblings, and I have two younger. But there's big spaces between us. So I grew up in farm country, and I didn't know any other kids. I never played with another kid my age until first grade when I went to school. But I talked to my mother a lot. My mother was a very good conversationalist, and I talked to her and Joe. I've always had this passionate interest in how other people live their lives. And so I'd asked my mother, you know, she was born in 1910, and I said, you know, when you were my age, what was going on in the world? And, you know, I'd be six or seven. So this would be during the first World War. She went through the Spanish flu epidemic, which killed 10 times more people than killed Covid. The 50 million people died in the Spanish flu. And strangely enough, they didn't close anything down when it was going on. Yeah, they weren't wearing masks or anything. They were going to school, they were doing business, and some people were dying. But anyway, I got used to that. And then my mother knew other women and my father knew other men. And I would meet them as a child because they took me everywhere. So I just got really interested in adults. And they had experiences. They had been in the first World War, they had been through the Great Depression, they had been second world War. And it was just really interesting talking to them about that. And I was just keenly interested that they were thinking about things that they had never told anybody. And I found that very fascinating that I had the ability to ask questions about their experience that got them thinking about things that they either had not thought about for a long time or hadn't thought about it in the way that I said, you know, there's this thing about asking people questions about their experiences. There's really something to this. And that's what I'm doing today in the Strategic Coach program. All the tools we have are questions. You know, I have one for the new Free Zone workshop, which is the day after tomorrow. And the question is, you at your 10 times best. What is it that you love doing 10 times the most? What is it that you find 10 times easier? And what's the thing that other people value you about 10 times more than anything else? And, you know, they write down their activities and they write down the examples of their success with that, and we're off to the races. I just find it's really interesting if you can dig down. And you're great at this too, Joe. I mean, all your interviews, and I don't know how many interviews you've done now, but you're always asking people about their experience, you know, and I would learn from their answers about their experience. I said, that's really interesting, you know, especially when it was a failure. And they said, this is what I learned from that. You know, I found that very, very interesting. I find other people's experience just really fascinating. So to a certain extent, I think we're akin in this way. I think you and I have the same approach. I learn an enormous amount when other people talk about their experiences.

Yeah, and I think you learned how to create mentors for yourself simply by asking questions. As a young child, were you asking questions before you even knew what the word question meant? Meaning, at what point did a switch go off in your head that you're like, huh? I found a way to be inquisitive. I think part of it, you just had to be curious and interested.

I'm very curious. Yeah.

Yeah. And I am also. I truly, one of the greatest qualities is just genuinely being curious.

Yeah. I think I was maybe 7 or 8 where I really realized the power of this. You can get an adult to talk about anything if you ask the right question.

Right.

And the other thing there's a charm about, I think in adult size, there's a charm about a child who asks really good questions. I think adults will knock themselves out to respond to a child asking really good questions.

I agree, because I think when a child isn't asking questions or adults get very uncomfortable, they don't know what to say or what to do. And some people, especially those that have probably more kids, they have experience with little kids and they're more comfortable with it. But many people, a child that is asking questions, I think brings ease, depending on how they do it, of course, you know, because children in their innocence can ask pretty funny questions that could embarrass the heck out of someone. As a child, did you experience rejection or fear, or were you worried about what they would say, or did you find yourself a pretty confident kid?

Yeah, I can't ever remember a bad experience where they wouldn't talk about something. You know, I mean, there's adults who will just ignore you and. But I didn't take that as rejection. It's just weren't interested, you know, they weren't interested in having a conversation. But I think I'm pretty confident. I think I was born with a lot of. I don't think I can get into trouble by asking a question. Yeah.

I watched recently after the Trump conviction. Right. He was doing an interview with Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil says to him, I'm not going to say it right. I can't remember exactly I said it. But that seems to be bothered by what other people think of you. Trump said some along like, no, I don't really have that now. The reason I bring that up, that.

Was actually a really great interview.

It was. And it was also interesting about how, you know, when he was trying to ask him what's his time like when he's by himself? And Trump would go nowhere near that. He's like, oh, you're being my psychiatrist right now, but just not breaking, you know, who he is, or, you know, being very emotional. So it was quite revealing. I mean, you learned pretty much a lot by just the way Dr. Phil was asking him questions. Now, the reason I bring that up is, do you ever find yourself as an adult in awkward, confused situations? I'm sure everyone does. At some point there's gotta be.

Oh, yeah.

And the reason I bring this up with purpose is I think purpose is one of those things that people have a lot of awkwardness with. They don't really know how to make sense of it oftentimes because so many people are running around trying to, you know, lower their value system on each other.

Well, I think that's very true. And I've often wondered where the fork in the road is, where just someone decides to be an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

As opposed to doing what, you know, basically 95% of other people do that they have to fit into some adult situation. But I think it happens early. More and more convinced that it happens before 10 years old, that you've made a decision in the fork in the road, and then that road just continues for the rest of your life. And I think it has to do that. You have enough confidence that you can hit the world straight on. You don't have to have all sorts of protectors and mediators for you to make your way in the world. I think there's something that happens in a child's mind and saying, you know, I can figure out things for myself. I've got enough confidence that I can get into a new situation which may be uncomfortable and I may not be real confident at, but I got enough confidence that I think I can figure out what's going on here and find success in the new situation. What would you say about that? Because, I mean, by your own admission, you were sort of introverted when you were a kid.

Yeah, very. I mean, what comes to mind right now is that I didn't even really piece this together until just now when you're saying it starts early on. As a child, one of the first ways that I learned how to make money was I would sit in my father's locksmith shop in Kerrville, Texas, and I would sit on the counter. And my mother had recently died, and I was 4 years old when she died. And I have very few memories of that, that time period of my life. I have a lot of just really blackout areas of my childhood that I just don't remember. And my father was in real pain. I remember that. And he's just working as a locksmith, not making a lot of money, just tormented because he lost the love of his life. I was a confused, scared kid. I was very, very scared as a child. And I would have a Smile on my face all the time. Not all the time, but I would try to smile because if I did, my father was less angry and less hurting. And people would come into his locksmith shop and they would like, literally give me money and tips. Not a lot, like 10 cents. You know, we're talking. This is in the early 70s, right. This is around 1973, 1974. And I would smile, and I didn't even realize this. He just said that.

That.

That actually was the first commerce that I was selling. What the hell was I selling? Maybe joy, Happiness rendered a service.

You smiled.

Yeah. I'm like a freaking prop here as a human. And then, of course, I did all the things that you might have done as a kid. Cut lawns, paint on people's curves, deliver newspapers. I mean, whatever I could to make money as a child. That was sort of my entrepreneurial things. When I was a drug addict, you know, I would sell drugs in order to support my drug habits. So that was maybe entrepreneurship, but not in the best of ways.

Made sense.

Yeah. But the point is, you figure out how to survive the circumstances where you're at, and when you're out of the survival mode, then you are able to better your life. But I often think that half the planet of people, they just want a pain pill. They don't have goals and aspirations. They're just trying to get through the day. They're trying to survive incredible, difficult situations. But people that have figured it out, to use entrepreneurial abilities to, you know, make a life for themselves, they can dream, they can have goals, they can be supportive of others. But it definitely. As a kid, that was probably my first attempt of selling. I just smiled. But I. I wasn't smiling because I was happy. I was smiling because it produced a result, and it protected me from the pain of my father, which did not express itself in the healthiest of ways at the time.

I was just thinking of something. You had a guest at Genius Network, and I would say it's quite a while ago, maybe seven, eight years ago. He worked for Keller Williams.

Oh, David Osborne.

David Osborne. Yeah. His presentation had more impact on me than anyone I've seen in a public speaking. And he was talking about what a wreck the first half of his life was, up to 35 or 40. He said, you know, I failed at marriage. I failed business wise. And then he said, and one day it all changed when I realized that 90% of the talented people on the planet need someone else to give them a purpose for their skills.

Yeah.

So my sense is that people who come up with their own purpose are in a small minority.

That's interesting, because I also learned, and I'm sure you would agree with this, that even if you don't know what the hell you're doing, if you at least take a leadership position and start making decisions, you're either moving scared or you're frozen stiff. That's pretty much where we're at in life, right? So it's kind of like your story of difference between fear and courage. When you were a cadet. And then the sergeant.

I was draftee in the army. Grenade practice, boot camp, 1965.

19. Okay. And then the sergeant said to you, and what, 60 cadets?

Well, they weren't cadets. They were just draftees. You know, they were the draft.

Okay.

They were the bottom scum in the army. Cadet. Sounds like bound for greatness. Yeah, No, I wasn't bound for greatness. So boot camp, you're drafted, you get your draft notice, and you go into the army and you're sworn in. They cut your hair off and all those things. It was mostly boring, you know, learning how to march together and, you know, a lot of stuff. Mostly waiting around. But there was one thing that was grenade practice. And you practice with live grenades. We had this big hill, big mound, I should say big mound, and you're down in a pit. Looks like you could bury people there. What you did is you had the grenade and you pulled the pin, and it was live, so. And you had an instructor there to see that you didn't do anything stupid. And then you had to throw it over the hill. And he was there. If you made a mistake, he had to bail you out. Kind of a precarious job. So they showed us how to do it the night before. And then first thing in the morning, we went there and the first sergeant who was showing the grenade practice, and There were about 60 of us, and everybody had to throw two grenades. So it took all morning. And, you know, it's loud. The explosion is really loud. So he just asked a question. How many of you are scared here? I put my hand up. I was the only one to put my hand up. And he said, you know, the only one I feel comfortable with is Sullivan, because he says he's scared, and it's important to tell the truth about how you're feeling. And he says, I trust him now because he's scared. So he'll be listening real carefully. And he said, I want to tell you the difference between fear and courage. Fear and courage. He says, fear is wetting Your pants courage is doing what you're supposed to do with wet pants. And so my sense about that is that there are people who are afraid and they don't do what they're supposed to do. And there's people who are afraid and they do do others. And that's a division in life.

Yeah.

People say you must be at a position in your life right now. First of all, I'm 80. That you don't get scared. And I said, I get scared a lot. I said, every time I'm writing a new book, I'm scared. Every time I'm creating a new workshop, I'm scared. They said, well, what are you afraid of? I said that I won't do as well as I've done before.

Right.

I won't do better. I'm scared I won't do better than I'd done before. And it means that I didn't have my heart in it, I didn't work at it. And I'm scared of anything in the future where I don't have my heart in it, you know. But I think the thing about purpose, now that you brought it up as a topic, I don't think everybody has it.

Do you think it's needed?

Oh, yeah, it's crucial, but it's who you pay attention to. Are you paying attention to your own brain about how things work, or do you have to depend upon other people's brains?

Right, right.

As far as your purpose in life. Yeah, yeah.

And you, you obviously, because one of the next episodes we're going to be doing, upcoming episodes, is on collaborations. So in order to collaborate with other people, you really could link into someone else's purpose, as long as it's aligned with yours. As long as it's aligned with your values. I mean, these are all sort of pieces of the puzzle for, you know, business growth and success. I think a lot of people, if I don't reach my purpose, I'm going to die. But they come up with these purposes that they're never going to reach and they give themselves an impossible sort of goal. And when I mean impossible, like, look, if it's probable impossible and doable, and you have the talent and the capital and, you know, the ability, then you can probably make things happen that most people may think to be, quote, unquote, impossible. However, I think some people can use a terpus as a trap.

Well, I think that there's something here that's related to going after what you want. And I think that's a bit mysterious because we want all sorts of things. And I think this changes on a daily basis. We want one thing yesterday, want one thing today, want one thing tomorrow. I wrote a book on this in our little book series. It was called wanting what you want. What I said is that when somebody says what they want and they tell you what they want, but then they say the word because the first part of it is true and the second part of it is fiction.

Yeah.

That they want it is true. But the. Because when they say because, they're trying to justify it to you.

Right.

And so I think that some people have always used because for anything they wanted, and they're in a constant, frustrating lifetime of negotiation that they're afraid to want what they want because someone else might not like what they want. And I think if you are just a pure wanter, I think you've got great purpose in your life. If you're a great justifier for what you want, I don't think you have much purpose because it's other people's response to what you want that determines whether you're actually going to go for it or not.

No, exactly. And one of the things I talk about and think about a lot is it's like Cleater. Yeah, My ghost town.

Yeah, your ghost town. You really wanted that. Ghost town.

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's two weekends ago, we had over 200 artists there that stayed the weekend, 24 DJs. It was crazy. They were playing music all night. It was pretty awesome. And they left the place just spectacularly organized and not a shred of trash. They cleaned up after themselves. These are all very well trained, respectful artists. And it was pretty cool. But, yeah, I wanted it. And one of the things I was going to say was before we wrap up here is that, you know, make your give equal to or greater than your want. And there's a lot of things that I want. And if I show up with a giveaway to people that have the ability to give me what I want and get me to what it is I want, I tend to get there faster than if it's totally just about me. You know, if it's all about what Joe wants with no consideration of what other people want, then I don't get there. And so to wrap up this purpose episode, let me just ask you, on anything that we have not talked about, how do we as entrepreneurs ensure that our purpose remains, you know, relevant and central to our business and our growth? Because oftentimes, let's say right before Uber launched, if someone's purpose in business was to build the biggest taxi cab organization in Chicago and then Uber shows up. You know, it could be a really sound, committed purpose, but you got to switch gears as the world moves.

Yeah. Well, we're in constant negotiation with the world because the world wasn't designed with us in mind, you know, I mean, there's 9 billion people on the planet or thereabouts and they, you know, they're all after something else. You gotta develop a real intelligence of checking out what other people's purposes are. Yes. And then not trying to do too much work of getting someone else purpose to be your purpose.

Yeah.

Just find out are they parallel? Are they going more or less in the same direction? And can you help each other out just by combining? I think we're good at that because we're very different people, very different background, But I think ever since we've met, we've been in sort of a parallel course. You know, that your purpose and my purpose are very aligned with each other.

Yeah, absolutely. Help achievement focused entrepreneurs be better and try to have some awesome experiences in our life and, you know, take care of ourselves, be healthy.

Yeah. I remember when you first announced your ghost town Cletor and there was a discussion going on and people said, what's that all about with Joe, the ghost town? I said, he wants it.

Yeah.

And they says, well, why does he want it? I said, doesn't matter, he wants it.

Yeah. To me it was a canvas. It was my entrepreneurial artistic ability. And I'll tell you so far. I remember we did an episode years ago when I bought the big house on the mountain. And I remember going through the stages of when I was excited about it and how to frame it and talking about that. And then, you know, shit happens. And it became a pain in the butt. And there was for each flood, leaning up to the fourth flood in the midst of remodeling this whole house, what had gone from excitement went to, I do not own this house. This house owns me. And then I eventually got rid of the house. It is funny because I will joke with people that so far this ghost town is infinitely easier to restore an entire ghost town than it was to try to remodel this damn house on the mountain.

It got flooded out every six months or so.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's just funny the way life works. But yeah, I wanted it. And so I will say this. Your purpose is your purpose. If you're living your life trying to make, you know, your appearance and your validation coming from someone that may not even give a about you that much, then you're gonna have a lot of pain and angst in your life.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's all I have to say on this topic for now, dad, so I appreciate it.

Thanks, Joe.

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