Seattle Seahawks General Manager on Talent, Teamwork, and Tough Conversations | John Schneider

My leadership style is. It's definitely the vision. The vision. Everybody's going to be going for this vision, like, every single day. There's no end line. We're always communicating. We never, ever think we have the answers. If you think you have the answers, it's really. We're going to have a really hard time working together.

What does it take to consistently build and lead one of the most respected teams in professional sports? Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I. I AM your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade and training, a high performance psychologist. This week, recorded right in the heart of Seahawks territory in Seattle. I got to sit down with my friend John Schneider, general manager of the Seattle Seahawks. John has spent over a decade helping to build one of the NFL's most consistent and competitive franchises, blending grit, humility, and an honest commitment to excellence.

We tell everybody in the whole operation, when you get in the car in the morning, what are you thinking about? Like, how are you improving the organization? Because we feel great about you. It's a reciprocal thing.

Having worked closely with John for nine seasons, including two unforgettable trips to the super bowl, he's just great. There's nothing contrived, there's nothing manufactured about John. He leads by being himself, by caring about his teammates, and it's wonderful.

I want the fans know we're, like, gonna bust our ass every single day. We're doing whatever we possibly can for them.

Now, as you listen, I want to invite you to reflect on how you respond when things don't go as planned. This is a big part of mastery and excellence is having the ability to pivot, to adjust, to eloquently respond when things aren't going the way that you thought they would go.

What are you doing every day to let ownership fans know that we're getting better?

So let's dive in with my friend, the GM of the Seattle Seahawks, John Schneider. All right, so this is a. This is a fun conversation for a lot of reasons. One is my respect for you.

Same.

Thank you. Ditto. Two is we're friends and we've been able to, like, be shoulder, shoulder on a lot. And so I just love this conversation. There's no chance that we will be able to do justice to two things. One is how much we laugh, how hard we've worked together, the jams we've gotten out of together, and. You're a genius.

Okay, go down, Sheriff.

So. All right, there's 32 jobs in the world that are general managers in the National Football League. You hold one of them and you've been doing it for a long time. So when I think about that, there's 32 jobs. When you set out as a youngster and you thought that you wanted to be in the NFL and you wanted to be a general Manager, there's only 32 jobs in the world.

Right.

You're here and you were flat out bringing it. This is a world class organization. So can we start at the beginning and talk about how you were shaping your future and just kind of where you came from and what the breakfast table and dinner table was like. Like, take us back to the beginning.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. So thought a lot about, I mean, thought a little bit what we're going to talk about, you know, the leadership, how does it get going, how do we, how do we start and everything and like the foundations of it, like what, what brings you back to who you are and how you get to where you are. And that really, truly started with, you know, with my parents. My parents were very strong, are, thank God they're still with us. Grew up in rural Green Bay, Wisconsin. And what does that mean?

It's just like out of the country.

Yeah, it's, I don't want, it's not, it's, it's farmland, but it's home spread out like, you know, it's, it's. I didn't grow up on a farm, but I grew up. My dad built a house like on four acres out in the country. And yeah, my dad was, my dad was raised in both my mom and dad were raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. My dad was raised on the south side and his father was an immigrant, was a crane engineer, came from Germany, built cranes for P and H and instilled this really strong work ethic for my dad made. My dad started working digging ditches when he was 12, 13 years old. So we had this really strong work ethic. My father, my mom did as well. But I think really, you know, my dad ended up being a, you know, a self made, like I say this like really truly, like self made, very successful orthopod and started his own practice in Green Bay. And you had one year, I think it was like 1987 or 1988, where he did like the most total hips in the country and was flying around giving these presentations and everything. But he, he built his own practice in Green Bay. And I'm the youngest of six and so my mom was like you know, when you build your own practice, you're basically sitting at the emergency room waiting for people to come in to take care of them. Right? And so I think that, you know, the things that, like, you know, growing up like that, seeing my parents, like, my dad being gone all the time, my mom being as strong as she was, like, you know, we're Catholic. Very, very strong faith. So my dad was, you know, very much like, you're not. You're not gonna be hanging out at the country club. You know, like, he did not want to raise his kids. Like, you know, like, I hate to say, like a typical doctor's child or something like that. So it was basically like, we're growing up. We're gonna grow up in the country. I have four acres, and y' all are gonna, like, work your tails off. And, you know, so I always tell people. The two biggest gifts my parents gave me were my faith, my work ethic. And I always felt like, you know, I struggled in the classroom, ADD or whatever.

I don't know what it was, high school or.

Earlier, earlier, earlier. There were certain things I was interested in.

How did that shape you?

It shaped me just from a work ethic standpoint. Like, okay, what am I focused on? And, like, trying to really accentuate the things that I was trying to get really good at, the things I was. I was. I was good at.

Okay, this is important because I'm imagining when I'm in grade school or, let's go grade school for a minute. And you're smart, so I don't know if you knew that at the time, but having this feedback loop, like, oh, I don't get it, like, he does or she does, can create another narrative, which is like, well, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. Maybe I should skip school. Maybe I should so be a clown, be an angel. Maybe I should do other things. And what you ended up doing, it sounds like you said, oh, it's not coming easy. So I'm going to work hard.

I'm going to work hard, but in a different manner. So I was the guy that was chatty in class. My buddies still tell me that all the time, but I had a hard time concentrating. But the work ethic part of it was really like, what am I good at? I was good at is the. Is being an athlete and, like, having that vision for yourself, like. Like envisioning yourself, like, you know, catching balls, scoring touchdowns, beating people. Like, like, high performance, really. I guess, looking back at it.

Yeah.

And I was by myself a lot. The youngest of six. And like I said like really like working, literally like working my tail off all the time. It literally took me like three or four days to get like all the, my yard work done. Like, you know, it was like my mom would come out and like, you know, make sure all the trees are any pine cones underneath all the trees and stuff. I'm talking like maybe about 200 some trees too. This isn't like, you know, so it was like a very, very like, you know, strict, disciplined, like whatever, whatever you're, you know, you have, you have to work. I had to like work harder at other things. And then when I got to, when I got to college and found out like, you know, it wasn't going to be because we didn't have the Internet back then. Right. So it's like, you know, you know, I thought I was gonna be Walter Payton, you know, like I'm gonna go to, I didn't get recruited. So I'll go to Division 3 school and like they'll give me the ball all the time. Well, I got to, I gotta say, Thomas and like the guy that was starting like three guys ahead of me was like the nation's like all time, all purpose, you know, yardage guy that year in like Division 3. And yeah, I just was one of those guys that had a bad attitude and like bucked my coaches a little bit, got behind on the sticks and really had to kind of really had to like find myself which came back to like faith and work ethic and that kind of really stumbled into like I wanted to coach, I wanted to influence young men. And then this, this came along which I didn't, I didn't recognize at the time, but you know, Ron Wolf had been hired in Green Bay and I read an article about him. He had worked for Al Davis and he was a army.

Al Davis is a legendary owner in the NFL.

Yeah.

And Ron was a gm.

Yeah. And, and Ron, yeah. So Ron had worked with him and was an intern for him. I didn't know that thing that that existed. He was, he was a history major.

That's right.

He was a history major as well. And I was like, wow, if he, if he could do that, maybe that's a path I could head down and rewind a little bit when I was getting in trouble in school or I wasn't studying, I wasn't watching tv. I was like studying football cards and like, like, like making teams and stuff so my mom and dad would take away my football cards.

How old were you?

I don't know. Like fifth, sixth, seventh grade, something like that.

Oh, my goodness. So, Grace. So like memorizing numbers, that same thing.

That's cool.

I'm kind of flipping out, right? Because I actually, like, I watch him do what he does and I'm like, wow, this is a little much, you know, like he's still doing it and not with the cards right now, but like, you could ask him any question right now. He loves the art of general management, managing. And so that's cool. I'm still.

Does it do like the. Like my son does, like, you know, the mad. Like building a team.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. EA Sports has kind of changed the game for these kids, I think, about personnel.

Yeah. But I was like studying. You were doing it. Numbers and.

Yeah, yeah.

And then when I found out how important like the numbers and the studying and like how important that was to Ron, I like my wife Tracy, you know, like, she would. She would quiz me. We'd buy like the. The big, like football, you know, like tops card packs.

Yeah, right. Yeah, Yep.

And I would. We would literally like sit there and like, she'd quiz me like, okay, who's Harry Galbraith? And I'm like, he's a left guard for Tennessee. You know, came out of Tennessee Place for Miami's number 64. Because I knew if I ever had an opportunity to interview, I was writing Ron, like letters at the time, like trying to internship.

This is legendary. Is that you knew you wanted to do something. You saw someone that looked kind of like you, which was a history major. And then there was this thing called an internship that you were like, well, what is that? And then you took it upon yourself to write him a letter. Right. And so basically it was like, give me a shot, you know, and I work. Was it for free?

Some 175 bucks a week?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

But he basically, it was pretty cool because, you know, I got the standard letters back. Like, no, no, no.

Oh, you were writing lots of letters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wrote about. I wrote one big one and it was like, hey, that was a cool letter now. Nice. I wrote him another one. He's like, okay, now you're scaring me. Go away. Like one of those.

Good.

Okay. And then I.

Finding master is brought to you by defender. In the conversations I have with world class performers, there's this theme that keeps coming up again and again. How we choose to move through the world is shapes the quality of our lives. That's about mindset, the environments that we seek out, the way that we use our tools. And the way that we prepare ourselves for what's next. And for me, that's what stands out about Defender Defender is one of my favorite cars on the road. It is engineered for capability, built to take on the unknown, the off road, those edge of what's possible kind of days with advanced terrain response systems and all wheel drive and configurable off road modes. It is designed to adapt to wherever your path leads, even if that path hasn't been paved yet. At the same time, one of the things that I love is that Defender offers refined details, intuitive tech and a quiet, comfortable cabin supporting you whether you're navigating challenging conditions or simply heading out for the day with family and friends. The Defender Lineup includes the Defender 90, 110 and 130 with room for up to eight passengers and the versatility to match nearly eight. Any adventure or ambition that you have, you can explore the full lineup and build Yours@Land RoverUSA.com Again, that's Land Rover USA.com Bodymaster is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. If you've ever hired for a small business, you know the real cost isn't just the salary. It's the time that you lose when the fit is off, the momentum that stalls when that fit doesn't work. And that's the pressure of having to get it right while you're still running everything else. That's why I'm paying attention to LinkedIn Hiring Pro. It's built for the reality of hiring. When you're operating lean, you describe the role in playing language and then Hiring Pro helps you draft the job post, surface the right candidates, and then narrow to a short list without turning hiring into another full time job. And when applications start coming in, it doesn't leave you buried in resumes. It streamlines screening, including AI powered interviews for initial conversations. How about that? So that you can spend less time searching and then more time connecting with the people who match what you need. In fact, nearly 60% of hires find a candidate to interview with within a week. So hire right the first time, post your job and get $100 off your first job post@LinkedIn.com mastery. Again, that's LinkedIn.com mastery. Terms and conditions apply.

Yeah, Memorial Day weekend I was camping with a bunny of mine and he's like, like, you know, there was an article I guess in the paper in Green Bay. He's like, yeah, they like Bob Harlan, the President and Ron take pride in just picking up their own phones and answering people's. Think about that. I would never Ever do that Now, Right? Yeah.

Right.

And so I got his phone number, and I called him on a Sunday, Memorial Day weekend. It was probably, like, 1991, 1992. And he picked up, and he's like, yeah, I know who you are. You're the weirdo. Yeah, you need to go away, son.

I'm regretting giving out my phone number.

And he basically said, hey, well, how long a drive is it? I'm like, it's five hours. I can be there in four. You know, I will haul ass to get there, you know? And he's like, all right, well, come on down. We'll see where it goes. And so I came down. I drove down. I drove down on Monday, and I interviewed with him on Tuesday.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what? Okay, so here's what I'm hearing. Yeah, you had a vision. You had an idea, and then you kept chipping away at it. So you didn't take. No. You didn't take defeat, if you will, or rejection personally. You kept finding a way to chip away at, like, getting a little bit closer.

Yeah, I just. Yeah, I just felt like, you know, the faith part of it was really strong. I was like, I need to keep praying. I really, really, really want this to happen. And I really did have a vision. Like, a vision of. To be. And it sounds weird, but the super bowl was in Minneapolis. The Redskins had played Buffalo. I was working for a company called SpyTracker, the Sky Tracker. The lights go like this. And I set up outside of the super bowl for the commissioner's party. And I was sitting there, like. I was like, oh, that's Charlie Casterly. That's Bill Poly, and that's. And Tracy was with me, and she's like. I'm like, no. These guys are like. And I wonder if I could ever do something like they're doing. It's so cool. I'm, like, trying to explain to her what they do. And. And so, like, that's. It was kind of like a. I really was, like, into it and praying a lot on it, and then it came to fruition to get the interview. I went to the interview, and, yeah, it was. It was. You know, it was. It was. It was pretty. It was pretty scary. So I always had, like, a natural kind of, like, leadership. So I was, like, the kid that was, like, trying to get all the other guys out to play football, and, you know, hey, it's time to go work out, and, you know, it's time to go run.

What do you think he saw in you 30 some years ago?

I don't know. He's really intimidating. Very intimidating leader. Very much top down. We still talk about it today, you know.

So he's a top down leader.

Yes.

Which is not your approach.

No, no.

Is that because you didn't, like, how it felt to be in a top down or, like, what inspired you to. How do you describe your leadership style?

Yeah. So you want to. Oh, my leadership style. It's definitely like, the vision, humility, you know, working that professional passion that's part of the Jim Collins. Right. Like, you know, work like it's up to you. You know, pray like it's up to God. And, like, we're gonna have a vision and, like, everybody's gonna be, like, going for this vision, like, every single day. And there's no, there's no end line. And we're always, we're always communicating. We never, ever think we have the answers. If you think you have the answers, it's really.

We're in a really hard time working together, you know. Was it Gus Bradley who said the most dangerous. He was one of the defensive coordinators at the Seahawks. He said the most dangerous words in the NFL is I got this, coach.

Yeah, exactly.

Which is funny because, like, you kind of want somebody to say, I got it.

Yeah.

But he was pointing to, like, I got it, I got it, I got it. Like this. I know it all. I got it all. You know, where you don't. You don't. You definitely embrace hard work. You definitely embrace using your imagination to see a better future. And 100%, you are like a peer leader. Like.

Yeah, so, so with, like, appreciate you saying that, but it's like, you know, so we always, we always felt like Ron had us. Like, he's got us. Like, you, you guys, you know, you do this, this, and this. I'm gonna tell you what to do when you do your job, and you better do a damn good job. But you always felt like, like he was so strong that he's got us. You know what I mean?

Yeah, right.

I want that. Like, I, I. My vision for it is like, hey, I got you. I'm strong enough. I got you. But, like, we're writing this thing, like, to your point, like a. More of a peer.

Yeah.

And like, it's like a circle and, you know, we're taking everybody's opinions and we're like, in a, like the draft, for instance, we're going through the draft process right now. We're gonna take all this information in. We're gonna make the best decisions possible. But no Matter what, We're still gonna have to help these guys when they come through the door. We still don't have the personality licked or the background. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

We're constantly. Guys are constantly changing.

I don't want to skip too far ahead to the draft process, because I loved watching you work and how you would bring the team together. Like, you harvest insights, you pull from everybody. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And it's open debate until almost the last minute. And so some are pretty clear and some are a little bit whatever. But it's remarkable how much information you want to absorb and you want everybody to hear so that you can make an informed, critical decision. And that's. You only acquire that amount of information by hard work and then a. The ability to discern what's noise and what signal. What do I value?

Yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're on it.

That's a. Yep.

Yeah. Like, what's. Evaluating the evaluators, too.

You're doing that. Yep. So before we get into the draft and talent identification piece, let's. Let's go back to. Let's just go back to the breakfast table for a minute. Dad wasn't at the breakfast table.

Yeah. Early.

He was at the breakfast. Not at the dinner table.

Sometimes. Yeah, but.

But it was mostly mom.

Yeah, mostly mom.

Brothers and sisters there? Yeah. Yep.

Brother, sisters. Younger. Six.

So. Yeah.

Two girls. Boy. Two girls.

Boy. I kind of. I always kind of had it, though. It was like. It was like, kind of. You like. They were. They were all running.

They were older than me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So my high school years, like, eighth grade through high school, I was just my folks and I. Yeah, that's.

Yeah.

Y.

Okay. So mostly.

Mostly you and your mom and my dad at that point. You know what I mean? Slowed down on the traveling.

Okay.

Yeah. So that was. It was. It was. Yeah. At that point. Getting ready. Close to retirement.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

What is the. If your dad was here and you looked him in the eyes and you said, dad, I want to thank you for one thing. What is that?

The gift of faith and work ethic.

Okay. Your mom was here. Can't say the same thing.

Can say. Really? Oh, man. Toughness. Whoa.

Mom gave me toughness. Yeah.

My mom was like the direct conversations. Let's go. Let's let it rip.

So you are direct. And there's a tone that comes with it, though. There's a directness. You're not kind of mincing your words, but there's a care that's embedded in it. Like you. When I'm on the other side of the conversations with you, you're really clear, very direct, and I feel like you understand what it's like to be me in that conversation.

The empathy portion is right. Where you have to try to slow your roll a little bit. And I do, you know, I think everybody struggles with that, but I do, like throughout some of my confrontations, if you let that go too long, if you let the negativity go too long and don't have those conversations, you know, and you leave it under the table and don't address it right away, that's where I can get a little jacked up.

So if you. Because you don't want to confront or because it's just. It's just tricky.

It's tricky.

It's easier to be like, oh, I don't work itself out. And then. But you really are feeling slighted or I don't know what the thing might be. Yeah.

Taking stuff personal. And then also now you're in it.

Yeah.

And you could bite. It could be a little bit more biting than thinking about having a little. Just a little bit more empathy with your tone.

Yeah, that's it.

And I can. Yeah, I could struggle with my tone a little bit. Like I said, self talk about how do you make this person try to understand that you understand where they're coming from.

That's exactly it.

And I hear you. I care what you're saying. I understand your point of view, but that's not my job. My job is to do what's best for the organization. Period, point blank.

Yeah. So maybe we just kind of navigate over to that piece. Because. Defined a general manager. What does a general manager do? Because I'm going to ask you a question about managing talent. And it's really like not to be confused with what a head coach does or an assistant coach does, but you identify them and then you're cutting the contract. So there's a management. It's a very personal thing, contracting. So describe what a general.

Yeah. So that's why coaches, the best coaches. A guy as a coach, the coach is coach. And they have to get up in front of the team every day, provide the vision, the relationships every single day that they have to navigate is immense. In our role, we don't have to do that. The majority of us grow up scouting, evaluating, watching. Watching and taking. Yes, taking a step back. And at a very young age, I was, you know, very. I was blessed to be in that world with you know, Ron Wolf and Coach Holmgren and the. Coach Holmgren's staff was Andy Reid and Dick Giron and Greg Blasch and Ray Rhodes and Marty Mornowick and Sherm. Like, all these guys.

These are world class coaches. Yeah.

And I didn't know it. You know, it was my. These guys, I just knew they were amazing.

These.

Yeah, they were assistant coaches.

Yeah.

And they were. It was really like, you know, it was really like a master's class at that point.

How old was it?

I was 20, 21. 22. Yeah. And my boss, both my bosses, Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson, loved going out in college and doing the college scouting. And so I was in the office with Coach Holmer and all these coaches and the trainers and the doctors, and so I was just naturally around it. I didn't know any different.

Yeah.

When you, you know, so like, there's guys that are really good evaluators that come into a building, to the headquarters and have a hard time, like evaluating all the people. There's so many. There's some, the grounds here guys, the equipment people. You know, you've been around it so much. There's so many people that. So, yes, you're evaluating, evaluating football players, but you're also evaluating the orthopods and the trainers and the. It's just like in a natural fashion.

Right?

Like.

Yeah, yeah. Right. So the way that you. Maybe we do a framework here. So that's what a general manager is doing. But like, concretely, you are identifying talent.

You are creating the vision for the football organization. Right. And then matching that with the head coach.

Matching that with the head coach. And then, yeah, working hand in hand.

With the head coach and then making sure that we're sticking with our vision and then we're not getting off kilter.

You're also managing, though, contracts, like you're writing contracts and you're managing the P and L and you're reporting up to ownership.

Right.

Okay. So that's a handful of a job. This, this is a high pressured, high stress position to be an organization.

Yeah. I listen to one of your podcasts and the gentleman's like, you know, we need, you know, we need to have way more, you know, mindfulness in the building. And, you know, you'll go to bed early and, you know, take care, take care, better care of yourself. I'm like, well, we're. We're kind of just ripping and running all the time. I'm not sure when that happens, but yeah, congratulations. That sounds outstanding to me. You know, it's like, holy cow. But I love the part where he was just talking about, you know, maybe we need to take naps. I'm exaggerating. You know, like, holy cow, this would be great. No, it's really a push. You know, I tell people all the time, nothing has changed since. I mean, a lot has changed, but philosophically, since Pete and I walked in the door here in 2010.

Head coach Pete Carroll.

Sorry. Yeah. Where. You know, look, we're. We're just. We're. We're doing it. We're trying to do it better than any everybody else, like, every single day.

And we're like, so that phrase matters. We're going to try to do it better than it's ever been done before. And so you operationalize that. I know. I lived it with you. Like, that was a daily pursuit, and it comes in the smallest little ways. Like, how great can we be at Custodian Services? How great can we be at lawn care? I don't. I know. I don't.

We tell everybody in the whole operation, entire team. What do you. What do you. Yeah. Like, when you get in the car in the morning, you know, what. What are you thinking about? Like, how are you improving the organization?

Oh, that.

And when you. Like when you put your head on the pillow, like, I hope you feel good about what you did for the organization today, because we feel great about you and we're going to. You know, it's a reciprocal thing.

Yeah. You know, you did that really early for me. Is that. It was. I don't know, first, probably. It was actually probably at the beginning of the second year. And I'll never forget, you went out of your way to have a conversation with me about inclusion, and so you went out of your way to say, hey, listen, I just want to make sure you know that you're part of the fabric here, and, like, I love having you here. Something along those lines. It probably wasn't exactly that, but the work. Fabric.

Amazing. That's pretty good. Yeah. That's pretty good. Well, high performance.

Well, no, my memory is actually not so good. But all memories. All is too big of a word. But when there's an emotional content snapped to the actual experience, memory is able to be recalled much easier. And that was an emotional moment for me.

Awesome.

Yeah. Like, and I don't mean emotional like, oh, my gosh, like, fall apart. But, like, yeah, like, oh, this is acceptance.

Just acceptance.

Like, yeah, it was cool.

We're all in this. We're all in this together. Like, yeah, we're either all we're gonna. Yeah.

Isn't it amazing that you probably. I. I don't think I've ever told you that, but it's amazing how far some seemingly maybe throwaway comments. I don't know if you thought about what you're gonna say or if it's kind of off the cuff, but how far that goes that 14 years later, I still.

No, that's really cool. Yeah, I'm glad that it just happened to me the other night. I was. I have a close buddy of mine that I work with. It's like, there's a movie, a movie quote where the guy's like, hey, you deserve it, man. Like, but he says in a sarcastic manner, yeah. So I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna rip out of here and go take Tracy to dinner or something to be like, well, you deserve it. You know, I'll still be here working, that sort of thing. And one of this, this young man was walking out the other night and I was like, how was your weekend? He was like, oh, great. I went down to Los Angeles. I go, well, you deserve it. And he goes, hey, thanks a lot. Yeah, like I was being sarcastic, but, you know, I hope you feel good about yourself.

Body Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. Nutrition is foundational to high performance. And well, being and being consistent with whole food choices is really important. Sometimes that's tricky, especially when you're on the go. One small practice that helps me on those types of days is having a smart, reliable nutrition option ready when I need it. And that's why I'm a big fan of David protein bars. The Gold bar is their flagship product. It's seriously impressive ratio. It's got 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories, 0 grams of sugar, and it's formulated with precision, high protein density, great texture and flavors that make it easy to stick with. The team here at Finding Mastery, they love it. They're just ripping through them in the Finding Mastery lab. Chocolate chip cookie dough and peanut butter seem to be their favorite go tos. And for those who don't want to compromise performance just because you're on a short time or in between meals, this is a solution that's worked incredibly well for me and the team here at Finding Mastery. They've built something with rigor and alignment that really stands out in a crowded, sometimes ambiguous space like nutrition. David bars are now available in major retailers like Walmart and Target. And if you'd like to try them directly and get a special offer for being a Finding Mastery Listener, head to davidprotein.com findingmastery where right now, if you buy four packs, you'll get the fifth for free. You also get free shipping and then 10% off every order. Again, that's davidprotein.com findingmastery I hope you'll check them out. The team at Finding Mastery, we only hire like forward facing their Olympians or sports psychologists. And so there's a deep appreciation for getting it done in the amphitheater performance to be at Finding Mastery. And not everybody's an Olympian, just to be clear, but there's a lot of banter about movies. And I'll tell you, I say it all the time and you come up because you are the best at like one liners about movies and my.

Well, the ones that are our generation too.

Our generation.

Yeah.

But I say this all the time, which is to them, which is like, this is the great fear in any locker room I've ever been in because, damn it, I can't remember any of them.

Yeah, it's really funny. That's funny. It's terrible.

Let me go back. Do things better than have ever been done before. Give me a couple others. First principles that have been materially important for you.

Yeah, so very important. When Pete, Carol and I came together that, you know, it was okay. What, what's important to you? Pete was like, always compete. Do it better than anybody's ever done it before. Awesome. Mine was for the fans, like, right. Growing up a Packer fan, I always wanted to know what the packers were doing every day to get better because I never saw a winning football team the whole time I grew up until I was actually working for them. And we won a playoff game in like 90.

Must be you as the intern.

It was not that. It was not that. But I always wanted to know, like, what they were doing over there. So I always had this connection wherever I was, whether it was, you know, the Redskins or the Chiefs or here or whatever. Like, I want the fans knowing we're like going to bust our ass every single day. We're doing whatever we possibly can for them. So what does that mean? That means consistent championship caliber football team. You're always in it.

Let's break that apart. This is really important. Consistent championship caliber football team.

Your fans know that you're always going to be in it. If you're not in it, you're just pushing.

You're right there like, and you've chosen those words purposefully. Consistent championship caliber football team. And open that up because that is not you declaring this is a winning organization. You're saying that we are striving for consistent excellence.

Champions.

Yeah. Right. Like, so when you operationalize that and you make that real, how does that come to life in this organization?

It's basically like we. We want. What are you doing every day to let ownership fans know that we're getting better? Like, we're. We're trying to be ahead of the curve now. It, you know, doesn't always bounce your way. Right. Wherever it goes, but. But it doesn't stop.

But that's why we're not calibrate or, you know, caliber. Consistent. Championship. Caliber.

Caliber, Right. So you're right.

The fans stay in the pocket.

The fans. The fans know every day that, like, we're gonna have a team that's like, not going to be like, win two games or three games or something like that.

Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

Like, we're not like, trying to get a certain draft picker, you know, like. Like tanker. You know, like there's. You've seen it like, the NBA that, you know, they'll get to a certain point, they'll be like, alice, just trade our assets and, you know, yeah, let's.

Let's take a lower record. Yeah.

Try to get in the lottery.

Yeah.

So we can get our natural. I just, It's. To me, that's just unacceptable. And so with that, you know, you said those four core tenants. Right.

With.

And then mine was just like the hedgehog thing. Like, keep it simple, stupid. Which is plan, communicate, work. Plan, communicate, work. Like, we're going to plan. We got to over communicate. And then we're just going to outwork people because none of us are going to walk into this. Like, nobody's smarter than anybody else. Like, you walk into the room and again, like, if you feel like you're smarter than somebody else, then you and I are gonna have a big problem working together.

Yeah. You have established that amongst your direct reports that people feel like they can challenge you. They can say what's on their mind. They can bring whatever forward to the surface. Bring whatever to the surface that they need to and that you are not gonna look at them sideways. You might, but, like, it's not, you know, like, but you gotta. It's not intimidating, threatening, like, man, I can't step out of way. You are encouraging people to bring their very best forward. So that. And it doesn't mean it's gonna. Whatever they say is gonna be the thing.

No, we're all in. So we're all in. Challenge, challenge, challenge, challenge. And then once we all make a decision like, we're all in this thing now. We're all gonna make it work.

That's right. Yeah.

We're not. There's no looking back.

So support then. Challenge. You know your people really well. They know you. So there's a mechanism of support that's present with your teammates. How do you go about building that right level of support so that you can challenge each other appropriately?

The authenticity of it is really like, hey, we're all going to be working our tails off. There's also an authenticity because this is a very humbling industry. Especially, you know, the acquisition, the draft. You know, it's, you know, Mike, it's hard to, like, know it's truly in somebody's heart.

I know I'm on the record for, like, saying, I don't think we should take this one particular athlete. And he ended up being like, one of the, One of the greats that came through this. I've missed a few times.

Leave that alone. Yeah, right. But, but no, I mean, it's.

Leave it alone.

Thinking about it. Like, it's, it's. And so when you. When, when, when, when we're all in there studying together, I'd say let's just leave it at scouting for now. Okay? Not negotiating.

Not just acquisition, talent identification.

Just talent identification. When we have an intern or a second year, first or second year person that we're developing and we're all in there studying together and I say, look, I saw this. I was there in October at the school studying, watching this player, and I, I screwed it up. I don't have this right. Or, man, we need to. We need to do way more work on this guy. Because, you know, this film here is off of what. So every. Has a. There's just a. There's like a calming effect. Like, okay, it's okay to challenge them. It's okay. It's okay to challenge each other, and we can all work through this thing together.

And that is your inoculation for groupthink, because groupthink is one of the great diseases inside of talent identification or any, any team, really. And you've worked really hard to go against, you know, the granite group thing by. And the inoculation of that is make sure that everybody in the room can challenge everybody, including you.

Yeah. And then look, at the end of the day, okay, yes, it's my, It's. It's my job to make the decision, but there's decisions that I've made where, you know, I've listened to other people and we Just went with it. And I'm like, okay, now I want to win, too. Now I'm leading this thing.

Yeah. So you're going back to, like, decision mode. Discuss, decide, and then take action. And once you've made the decision, we got to be in it together.

We're all in this thing together. We're going to support them like crazy. And this, this. This. Our. Our building, the foundational people in our building, ek, Mo, Kelly Ramsden, you know, like the sports science. Everybody's here to, like, David Strick, our trainers. Whatever we can do to help the individual get better, we're going to do. And, you know, I feel like you'll always be a big part. Like, that was a big deal when you came here. Like, wow, there's a whole other level to.

Yeah. Thank you.

Helping an athlete.

Yeah. Thank you.

Which, you know what I mean, Mr. Baumgartner is not with us right now, which would be cool because we all followed that. That was amazing.

But, you know, like, I don't think I've ever talked about this. Is that it was one of a. It was like a highlight moment for me in my career. Is that. So I'm. I'm part of the fabric here.

Yeah.

And then it was.

We were all following it.

Yeah. And. And then. But so the listener who might not know is that it's a. It's a. I don't know. It's a large organization here. A hundred alpha competitors. You know, like, some of them are athletes and some of them are coaches and some are staff supporting the athletes and coaches to be their best.

And then.

So I'm here on almost all the games, and then there was one game I wasn't here. Well, in this case, I was at Mission Control with a. Supporting Felix Baumgartner, Red Bull Stratos, who was jumping. Yeah. Jumping from 128,000ft. And I got a picture. I can't. I don't know who sent it, but I'm in Mission Control with this person that I deeply care about who's risking everything for this feat. And you guys were all huddled around the TV on game day.

Yeah. In Eks. In our equipment guys office.

Right. Watching it. The live feed.

Marshawn's in there, too. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. It was a big deal.

Yeah. And so that was like. I had this. And it just so happened that I think it was the first time that Russell Wilson was playing head to head against Tom Brady. Or maybe the second time. I can't remember. It was a Patriots game. Which was like, it was a good rivalry there.

But that was probably a pretty cool, like, feeling for you too, to like and for the players to see that.

Yeah.

You know, because the staff, the coaching staff and support staff, that's automatic buy in.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

You know, players a little bit like, eh, how's this guy gonna help me? Like, what's he.

Yeah, what is this guy gonna do?

Is he talking ownership? Is he talking to Heco?

Yeah.

Yeah. So that was a big moment for you. I learned, like, from a trust level.

Yeah, it was.

You gotta feel awesome about that. It was cool.

It was cool just to know that this team here cared enough to tune in to watch this other project. Yeah, that was awesome, dude. All right, go back to talent identification. When you're looking for talent, what are the key attributes you're looking for specifically for football now?

Yeah, so there's a lot of, like, just fundamental, like, football. And then there's also evaluating evaluators. Who's going to be coaching the individual head coach. Style, culture. Right. So our culture here is like this. We're going for it. Like, it's just like, constant. We're going to have fun. We're going to work our tails off. You better not have, like, thin skin. You know, we're going to. They're constantly getting after it. So there's a level of toughness, mental toughness, love of the game, just pure passion, work ethic, the confidence. And then just that, you know, that we wanted. We still did. We wanted, but we did create a culture of swag. Like, you know, there was a lot of. And these guys now grew up watching, you know, the Legion of Boom guys.

And the Legion of Boom for the listeners, doesn't know it, which is like one of the greatest ever.

Yeah, we throw that out there. I'm sorry, like you and I are talking about. Yeah, it's like several. Several. Like several hall of Fame players. But it wasn't just. It wasn't just those guys in the defensive backfield. It was, you know, Marshawn's approach. It was the quarterback's approach. It was our tight ends approach. Zach. It was like we, you know, Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Jermaine Curse. We had some like, you know, golly, Braco Giacomini. We had these really tough. It was a tough football team that was purposeful. And we went through a phase here where we got off course a little bit because that group of players ended up being. We didn't make necessarily really tough, tough decisions to move on from some of those players. We paid them all, which we wanted to do that we wanted to keep everything together, try to keep winning championships, but then you suffer in other areas. You got to rob Peter to pay Paul because there's a salary cap in the National Football League. And so we got, you know, we kind of had to like try to fit some other players that didn't really fit our mold of the tough, gritty, swaggy, smart, smart, tough, reliable, swaggy football players. I guess is where we went off course a little bit.

You're throwing those words around, but those are actually very succinct words. Body Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. It's the start of the new year and it's an invitation to reset, to refocus, to realign with the habits that support long term health and high performance. For me, that begins with the fundamentals, including how I fuel my body. And that's where supplements can play a powerful role if you choose the right ones. That's why I trust Momentous. In an industry that is lightly regulated and really confusing, Momentous has become the high trust brand in a low trust category. They were not satisfied with the status quo, so they created what they call the Momentus standard. Every product is built with science backed ingredients and then is third party tested with NSF or informed sport certifications. That means no guesswork, just straightforward quality that we can count on. My personal staple is what they call the Momentous three protein, creatine and Omega three Simple. These foundational nutrients support recovery and energy and mental clarity and they're part of my daily rhythm. I also really like their brain drive, Turmeric and Ashwagandha. So if you're looking to start the year grounded in quality and intention, I'd encourage you to check out what Momentous has created. Head to livemomentous.com findingmastery and use the code finding mastery for 35% off your first subscription order. That's livemomentous.com finding mastery and use the code Finding Mastery. Finding Mastery is brought to you by fatty 15. Over the years we've had a lot of great conversations about optimizing the aging process. And one of my favorites was the conversation I had with Dr. Stephanie Van Watson, an applied scientist and the co founder of Fatty 15. Stephanie's background is extraordinary. He's a veterinary epidemiologist, a former Navy scientist and now a longevity researcher. In our conversation we dug into the science of aging, the connection between dolphins and human health, and how a surprising discovery led to the identification of a new essential fatty acid C15. That discovery, it became the foundation for fatty 15. It's a daily supplement and it's designed to support long term cellular health. What I love about it is how it works at the foundational level. By strengthening your cell membranes and and supporting your body's natural resilience, it helps you feel more energized, focused and resilient over the long haul. I love it. I use it. My wife uses it. It's become a central part of my routine because it aligns with a core principle that I believe in. When we take care of our internal systems, we can show up more fully in everything we do. Our careers, our relationships, our hobbies, and anything else we choose to invest our time in. If you're curious about the science behind it, I highly recommend you checking out our conversation. It's episode 473 and if you're ready to give it a try, head to fatty15.com findingmastery and use the code findingmastery for 15% off your first 90 day starter kit. That's fatty15f a t t y15 fatty15.com findingmasteryand use the code finding mastery for 15% off. So I do want to come back to those words that you're looking for for somebody to be elite, but what you just reminded me of is that I think this organization did a great job of preparing the athletes to be successful. And Coach Carroll's extraordinary at showing somebody what they're capable of being and becoming.

It's like number one attribute I say all the time is like, oh, he's so positive. Like, his number one attribute is instill.

Confidence in people because he shows them what they're capable of doing. He shows them when it's going well. What's. That's exactly. Do that more as opposed to that's not good enough. Look at your left foot. It's. It's got the wrong kind of angle on it. Like we've told you 100 times, like, you need to have like this step, not that step. Like, come on, it's none of that, Right? Yeah.

So what's possible?

What is possible?

And you have the ability to do it. Now accentuate those strengths and we'll help you compensate for your deficiencies.

We supported a group of men to become something very special to be successful. I don't think we prepare them to deal with failure.

Good point.

Yeah. And so my analysis is post super bowl, the second super bowl won one in dramatic fashion. It was a buzzsaw, if you will. The second One, we lost it in dramatic fashion. It was a last minute heartbreaker, and there was a lot of pain around that loss. I'd love to talk to you about this. Yeah, like, there's a lot of pain. I don't think we taught them how to deal with failure, how to deal with loss. And so there was a deep pain that lasted, I think, three years. And in that three years, we were managing that pain as opposed to really getting on the front foot where noses were pointed in the same direction. And so that was my take of that phase.

Yeah, I think you're right with that assessment. It was kind of just putting in some. Kind of covering some gaps and kind of just getting through a little bit.

That's right. Yeah.

A lot of drama.

And. Because when somebody. When a family member or a team member is in pain, that pain becomes kind of the source of the narrative. And we were managing that pain for about six guys.

Like grief.

That's exactly it. Okay. So loss of a game doesn't occupy the left central part of the brain. And then loss of life, the right central part of the brain is. It's the same center of the brain. Loss is loss. And there was not just loss of a game for so many. It was loss of a future, it was loss of a dream. It was loss of image, identity. It was like a big loss.

Yeah. It'll be a story with that group for a while.

Yeah, that's right. And even more insidious was, I think most people on the sidelines, not on the field but on the sidelines in the entire stadium, thought that we were gonna win that game. Don't count your chickens until they're hatched. You know, that. That analogy. And it was just a little too early. So it was like a double. A double.

Yeah. And the players thought we could win, you know, win a couple of them if we would've won that.

That's right.

And I will say, I've always told people, I thought Coach Carroll's best job, his best job coaching, was the next year, getting over that grief.

It was hard.

And we still got to the divisional round.

That's right.

And, you know, everything, you know, whatever the drama, everything that went along with that game and then the contracts that came up and people unhappy, you still went to the super bowl highly successful. And when that happens, it's every. Everybody's. And it's great, but everybody. Everybody, you know, wants to get paid.

Everybody wants to get on the second Super Bowl.

All of it.

All of it. Yeah, all of it. Right.

And we did go for it. But to your point, you know, we could have made some decisions in there that would have been really, really hard, but we. We kept those guys together as long as we possibly could and then suffered in different areas.

Yes. Maybe too long, you know, like. And I. And I mean that for them, not for the Seahawks organization, and I would.

Say for the Seahawks organization, because it's.

Yeah.

How do you compensate with other parts of your team? You know, when you're. You're paying, you know, certain areas, you have to, like, be willing to, okay, well, if we draft this guy, hey, we better be right. And B, we better be willing to pay him and we better be willing to develop them. And, you know, we. We. You know, I'm right there. We all got off kilter a little bit. You know, I didn't make. I made a couple of decisions in the draft that was all about. More about, well, if this guy has a contract coming up next year and he leaves and that guy may leave, then we should probably move this player up on the board, you know, so not necessarily it wasn't getting the best.

Talent, but thinking cleverly, two steps ahead that there might be a gap, which.

Is the opposite of. Of your approach.

I did not know that you were doing that. Yeah, yeah.

Like, what are we. We're okay. Like, let's not try to outsmart people.

Yeah, right.

Like, let's just do what we do and do it really good, and then, you know, we'll just. We'll just bring the best players in here and then we'll figure out how to, you know, compensate for whatever we haven't addressed, whether that's a. Whatever a pass rusher, whatever.

The.

Wherever we would have been off.

You know, let's go back to the Super Bowl. The second Super Bowl. The one we lost for a minute is that.

Let's go back to the first one.

Yeah, the first one was a lot of fun.

I like that one a lot better. It was great.

I'm actually. I've never said this out loud, you know, on. In a public way. I'm really looking back now. I'm really happy I got both of those experiences.

Yeah, I would agree with you from your perspective. I would say that I would like, we should have won this. I would like. Yeah, I would have liked two in a row and then. You know what I mean? Then have a third. Pretty cool. Yeah, I think it was.

But so what it taught me was.

No, there's so many lessons. I get it.

But, no, I don't want to Take away the value of winning, but there was a value in losing in that way. I've never felt a locker room the way that it was three seconds after the game. I've never seen anything like that.

Me neither. Broken walls, broken hands, broken helmets, crying. Screaming.

Screaming. You know exactly who. Yeah. Like, that was intense. I saw every painful emotion.

Yeah.

Out of 10. Out of 10. And then one athlete laughing.

Yes. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, I'm supposed to lead in a general fashion right here, Right?

Like how?

Managing a general fashion right there. Like.

Yeah.

How are you supposed. You're not prepared for it. Just trying to make people feel good. Like, as upset as I was, it's like, how am I supposed to make everybody feel good, like, right now?

Like, no, there's no. There's none of that. I tried. Yeah. Did you?

There was none of that.

So what I was going to ask you is I have lots of memories of, like, two or three minutes before the end of the game, you coming down in your suit. Right. And you're kind of. You're there, right on the field, and I don't remember that. I don't remember you and I having experience post that second Super Bowl. I don't remember on the field where you were, what that was like, but can you just bring that to life? What was that like?

Well, I had the same feeling that I had in the NFC Championship game. We played the packers, so it was the same thing. I was down there. I'm, like, looking up at the top of the stadium thinking about, now, we were driving, but we hadn't. This is the second super bowl against New England.

We're down.

We were down and we're driving, but we really hadn't stopped in the second half of the game. We had some. Cliff got hurt. Jermaine Lane got injured. We had a bunch of injuries, and they had our number in the second half. They were getting after us offensively. So even if we were to score a good.

Pretty good.

I mean, there was going to be about a minute, something left. I remember that feeling.

Yeah.

But also in the. When we came down or the. You have to come. Just so people know. It's like, people don't come down. Just like to be seen on the sidelines. Like, you have to get down by a certain time, you know, Otherwise elevators get stuck.

Yeah.

You miss the game.

That's right.

Yeah. So anyway, we came down against Green Bay and, you know we're going to lose the game, and, you know, we got an onside kick and we Got a two point conversion and, like, things just went our way. But when I came down the field, I was thinking to myself, okay, what am I going to tell this coach? What am I tell that player? What am I going to tell. How am I going to address Pete? How am I going to make him feel better about. How are we going to make everybody feel like it was a good. It's disappointing, but good season. Like, what are you saying to everybody? That's what I was thinking about. And then everything just started going our way. And it's like, holy cow. Like, win this game. We got the onside kick.

Yep.

I mean, holy cow. We go to overtime. Bang. Like, what a crazy finish.

So I encourage a listener to just go watch that game.

Yeah.

You watch the highlights of the fourth quarter of that game was like, yeah, so what was that?

I forget. I mean, you got to think about it. Like, you can go on YouTube and watch it.

Like, what was the second Green Bay Seattle?

I had the same feeling I had at the end of the New England game, Super bowl, as I did against Green Bay. Like, how. What am I going to say to everybody? You know? Yeah, I'm bummed out, but I gotta, you know, I'm. I'm the leader. I gotta. I gotta make sure I'm there for everybody. And, you know, the Green Bay game got crazy at the end. We get the onside kick. Holy cow. We're going to Super Bowl New England. We're driving, you know, we're going down there and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, like, Jermaine makes this crazy catch on his back, on his back right in front of us. We're standing right next to each other, right?

We're standing right next to each other. Yeah.

Crazy catch. And then, you know, all that stuff happens and then, you know. So I was thinking that the manner in which we lost was not, you know, if you lose it where, you know, you score, they go down score. There's a different feeling in when your empathy level for everybody in the locker room is a little bit different than the manner in which we lost it.

Got it.

And so to go in there to your point, you're right to go in there to try to, you know, put your arms around people when they want to. They just want to, like, beat the crap out of everybody.

Yeah.

You know, that was really emotional.

We had to let that be what it needed to be. There's no guiding that. There's no chance you're right. I tried, but I wanted to go to the moment that We. That the ball was turned over at the last second and there was. It was obvious the game was over. What happened for you in that nanosecond?

Who. Probably the same feelings that everybody else did. Why. Who was fault. The anger, you know, just. What are we doing? You know, like just the. And when it's out of your control every game, I'm like that, you know, it's just out of your control. Like, you get, you know, and. And I was upset. I want to know why, you know, but then, like, okay, you know, get it together. Like, you need to be there for everybody. Like, okay, so, yeah, fake it. You gotta fake it. Like, okay.

Is that what you did?

Yep.

Yeah, I think that that was probably. You were trying to do your best and other people were trying to do their best. It needed to be so. It needed to be real to get to the healing phase. And it just like, man, that was so complicated.

Yeah, the drama of it too. Like, oh, well, yeah. Somebody wanted somebody to be the MVP and this guy to be the mvp. Like, nobody's thinking about that at the end of a game.

No, no, no.

That's way too confused. Think about the, The. The. The super bowl like that. I mean, you're in a Super Bowl.

There's. There's no conspiracy theory happening here.

Not on that one.

Everyone's trying to win.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by AG1. One of the through lines in high performance is consistency. Finding routines that support your mind and body day in and day out. And for me, AG1 has been one of those routines for over a decade now. Since day one of Finding Mastery, they've supported our show, our full team, and have fueled us in reaching dozens of milestones along the way. And now they've taken it a step further. AG1 just released their newest generation, AG1 Next Gen. It's the same one scoop in a glass of water, but now with an even better formula. A pretty unique fact about AG1 and why I've come to respect them so much. They've gone through over 50 different iterations of their product, constantly upgrading ingredients, optimizing nutrient forms for better absorption and utilization, and adding in what modern humans need to thrive in today's stress environments. And they've continued to uphold some of the most rigorous standards and comprehensive testing in the industry, including third party NSF certified for sport certification to ensure quality with every scoop. If you haven't tried them yet, there's no better time than right now. This is their best formula yet. And the difference? It's felt. Go to Drinkag1.com FindingMastery to get started. With your first order, you'll get a free bottle of AG1D 3K2, a welcome kit and five AG1 travel packs. Again, that's Drinkag1.com FindingMasterY to get started I want to take a second here to tell you about a morning routine that I've been using for years. For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind to ready myself to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates or text threads, I choose how to start my morning. That's always in my control. That's always in your control too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business and the arts are using. And the best part, it only takes about 90 seconds to do so. Just head over to findingmastery.commorning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to findingmastery.commorning to get your morning mindset routine. All right, so in a world where athletes are a bit different than when we grew up, what insights can you point to that you understand about these high talents? And you can adopt a lens for a parent, you can adopt a lens for an executive trying to lead high talents in their organization and or other kind of sport endeavors. But what do you know about these young they're 20 some year olds that are coming in, they're extraordinarily talented. What do you know about them right.

Now while they're learning on video games, YouTube, if they don't like what if they don't like what you say or what you're teaching, they'll go find it on YouTube and show you that challenge you. So you'll be ready to be challenged. But you have to be ready to be strong and clear and let them know. No ambiguity. Like everybody, you want to know where you stand. And so if you hit them and let them know exactly, exactly what's up, they might not like it, but they'll actually take a breath and like come back and be like okay, you know, I appreciate you letting me know where I'm at and how do I so what do I do to change the situation?

Cool. That's a great insight. And for when you think about the, the some of the most instead of.

Taking their ball and going like just leaving like I'm done with you now every there's guys can come across like come around like that once in a while. Right. But you know, I'd say the, that that group that what, Gen Z. Right. Would be more like, I'm taking my ball and split.

And so you're, you're being, you're communicating clearly without ambiguity so that they don't say, well, I'm taking my ball and going home.

Right.

Yeah.

I think the coolest thing, one of the most impressive things, when we went through the hiring process with Coach McDonald, who's our new head coach, he's entering his second season, 37 years old, coached high school football when he was a freshman in college. Really understands, I want to help you. Why are you getting so upset? And his communication is very clear, very distinct. I want to help you get better. Don't be upset with me.

Yeah, right.

We're in this together. Like, I want you to make as much money as you possibly can so we can all win championships. And so why are you getting so upset? And so there's a really cool, like.

So it's a really depersonalizing it.

Yeah.

Is that what he's doing? Yeah.

I don't know if it's depersonalizing it.

Not making it, they taking it.

Presenting in a way that's.

Yeah.

How would you say it, Mike? I'm presenting in a way that's less personal.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was trying to say. But you said it better. Yeah. Okay. So that's a way to make it about the thing rather than about each other.

Yes.

Okay. And sometimes it needs to be about each team. Yeah.

But whatever organization you're in, it's very similar.

So this is what we're all about. What do you say to parents right now that are trying to raise kids that, you know, we got hopes and dreams for our kids. And in the current climate, what insights do you have? Because you've been, in my mind, an extraordinary parent, and you can bring whatever part of that forward that you'd like to, because what you've done as a parent is really hard.

Talking about Ben.

I am talking about Ben. Yeah. And so raising a child with special needs and keeping a marriage intact, which you've done both, is really hard to do.

The data is like, yeah, autism is like 86% divorce rate, right?

Yeah.

And, yeah, Tracy and I went through it very early when Ben was diagnosed at 3 or 4 years old. And we said like, hey, these are our non negotiables. This is my role. This is your role, babe. And like, we want to be together. Like, let's, let's just. Let's make this work. And we. And Jack was, I mean, he was like, One. Two.

Yeah.

And two boys. Two boys.

Yep.

And. Yeah. So I think we just basically said, like, okay, we're in this together. Really, it was just a team. Like, we're in this together. Like, we're not. Not loving each other. We're just upset about the situation.

Would you say, how are we gonna fix this in the heat of a battle? Would you say that? Or is that something that you were just. You. You set the tone early. Like, look, when we fight or we argue, it's not a disdain for each other. It's like, we're not seeing it the same way, or one of us is tired or.

Yeah, I think we. You know, you can't. Again, like, addressing that elephant in the room. The longer. The longer you let, like, leave things, like, under the table, like, not talking about it, then the more negativity creeps in.

Who's better?

It's a natural.

Is. It. Is. It's probably Tracy.

Yeah, She's. Yeah. I mean, she's interested. Let you know what she thinks.

Yeah. Like, she. She brings it forward pretty well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, there was definitely a day was like. She's like. It basically came to a head. She's like, we need to, you know, get some counseling. Like, you know, she had been saying that for a while.

Yeah.

And I was busy. I'm doing. No, I'm doing my job. You're doing your job.

Yeah.

Right, right. Like, figuring out, you know, how to, like. Which was very, very much harder than mine at the time. Right. And, you know, we're gonna. You know, like, she kept saying it, and I was finally like, you know what? I think you're right. We should go see. We should go talk to. We should go talk to a counselor.

Yeah.

Right. And then we came home that night, and we just, like. Just like A to Z, man. We just, like, went through it, and that was it. We never went and saw a counselor like these. These are our rules of engagement. We're keeping this. We're keeping this thing together. We're going to, like. We're going to be there for each other. We're going to be there for other parents that are going through this. And, God willing, we did get through it. And, you know, I mean, Tracy's been amazing. I mean, we have Ben's fund. We raise money for families that can't afford treatments for autism. She's just crushed it.

And so I want to say that aloud one more time. Ben's fund, which is a support. A nonprofit support mechanism for people who cannot afford the treatment or Modalities needed to. To best support their son or daughter that has autism.

So.

Bensfund.org Yep. Yep.

And weighted blankets, iPads, camps. Just.

Yep.

You know, counseling. Marriage counseling. Like, anything, you know, anything you can do to, like, you know, help these people. But anyway, sorry.

No, no.

Just having the direct community, like, having that. Direct communication.

So there's a theme here, right?

Like, let's not.

Yeah.

Stop being around the bush.

There's a direct. There's a theme here about direct communication, about being honest, but doing it in a way that you understand with empathy, the other person's experience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm not gonna say that. Like, you know, the tone doesn't get off once in a while.

Like, you know, I wish Tracy was here right now. She'd be rolling her eyes, like, okay, guys, you two, over here.

Yeah. Her favorite line is. Her favorite movie line is from Wedding Crashers. You know, in these Beginnings, he goes. She. They're both talking, and they're having this divorce deal going on. There's this big settlement going on. She goes. She looks at the husband and goes, you shut your mouth, and you're talking to me. So that's her line. I know. Like, okay, I need. I need. I need to. Stole my role, you know, you shut your mouth when you're talking to me.

I don't know where this comes from. Maybe because you're good at this, but our family would do something fun, which is, like, say, Lisa and I are arguing, or Lisa and Grayson are arguing, or I me and Grayson are arguing. Something like that. The other person inevitably will say, like, it's Grayson. If Lisa and I are arguing, Grayson will say, dad, you're still in the circle of love. Because he's identifying clearly, I'm the one with the problem here, you know? Right. Or, like, if Grayson and his mom are arguing and it's. He's, like, in the wrong. Or he's, like, feeling a certain way. I'll be, like, gracing yourself. Circle.

I can't imagine. It's so. I can't imagine you, like, not being in control of, like. Like, a calling. Like, no, I'm. Pretty calming situation.

Yeah. No.

Okay. Like, I can never imagine, like, raising your voice.

No. Like, it feels like a waste of energy for me, you know? So. But. But, like, just the diffusement, the art of diffusing is, like. It's so cool.

Yeah.

It goes a long way.

Okay.

Highlights. When you think about the last 14 years, has it been something like that for you here? 15. Whatever. 15 years.

We're getting ready for our 16th draft, man, here we go.

What are some highlights? You know, the athletes moments, coaches, scouts. Like, what are some highlights that come up that you're like, ah, this was so good.

There's, man, there's a lot. There's a lot. Yeah, a lot of blessings, man. There's. There's so many. Like, obviously, you know, winning the world championship, you know, all the experiences with the players, like, it's so fun being able to. To pick the players and call them up. And I've started like, okay, why have I been so, like, letting the scouts do it now? You know, like, if there's.

They know, oh, you're giving them some of that love. Yeah.

But then, like, you know, probably like rewarding guys with contracts, you know, life changing money, which on the flip side is my least favorite part is, like, the negotiating and like, like, you know, have like the cap casualty part and just letting guys go in general. Right. But yeah, I mean, just seeing guys, like, the growth too, like guys growing up and like, biting into what you're. What you've been talking about for years. Right. Like, Doug Baldwin, once in a while will send me a letter. I wrote him because of the lockout. And so I was recruiting him, you know, through, like, through the mail. We couldn't talk to the players, and he was a rookie free agent. And I was like, hey, man, like, you know, you don't get drafted. Like, this is what I think of you.

Pop, pop, pop.

And like, you know, we have Brandon Stokely here and like, you could replace Brandon Stokely. We're not going to resign Brandon Stokely. You come here and start right away. Those relationships and then, like, the, you know, the hard conversations I've had with him over the years, too.

I was gonna say I have conversations.

With Sherm, you know, like, Richard Sherman. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have a special place for Doug Baldwin, too.

Cool.

And he's so full of fire.

Yeah.

You're not getting. You're not getting out of a relationship with Doug without getting a little truth.

Sarah. Way more peaceful now.

Yeah, he's amazing. Human.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that's cool that you guys have that. He. I asked about highlights and Richard and he come forward. Both of them come forward, which is cool.

Yeah.

He would say.

He would say. How would he say it to me? Hey, man, you need to. You need to give me some time. I'm like, you need to give me some time. You know, those direct conversations. You know, this confrontational.

Okay.

Conversation.

Last thing, if you could sit with any master, who would it be?

Oh, Jesus.

And what would you want to ask him? One question.

Why no patience? Like, why? Why? There's no gift of patience. Like, what?

Why?

Like, why don't we give each other the grace that you bestowed on them? Like, that you had, you know, cool question.

And where would you have the conversation with them? What comes to mind?

On a boat with a beer. Yeah. Sun going down. Yeah. Yeah.

Perfect. That's not. I think of, like, near an olive tree.

I'm not that Catholic.

That's great. All right.

Good man. Dude, appreciate you.

I'm so happy this was. You know, I don't. I don't. We went all over the shop with some fun stories that maybe just you and I appreciate, but, like, I hope that the listener can pull away a couple of things. One is, you got to really know your craft. Relationships matter. Direct communication is how you honor them. If you do it in a kind, compassionate way, you're investing in the right way to other people. John, it's been a. I love having you as a friend. Thank you for everything, John.

Appreciate you. Thank you. This was fun. Thanks for getting me to do it. Yeah.

Okay. That was great. Emma, who do we have on next? All right, next time, we have the wonderful Tenzin Seldom. Okay. This one is so good. It's like this brilliant intersection between climate and tech and with a business lens on it. So for folks that might not know her, Tenzin is a venture capitalist, a global climate leader who's been working on climate tech for over two decades. She is a remarkable person whose life has been shaped by exile activism and an unwavering sense of purpose. She was born to Tibetan refugee parents. She was educated at Stanford and Oxford. And now leading at the intersection of spirituality and impact, Tenzin shares how she stays grounded in compassion while taking on some of the world's biggest challenges. We actually recorded this in one of our former Finding Mastery studios last fall, and the conversation now feels even more relevant than it did when we first filmed it. I am really excited for you to hear it. All right, thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest, no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights. We have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Hunch over to findingmastery.com newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously and the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals@findingmastery.com SL sponsors and remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website, website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional, so seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode. Be well, think well, keep exploring.