Shocking Near Death Experience Reveals Deep Life Lessons

And as I began to see my life, I said, oh, I'm failing the test. And this divine being that I call God that held me said, life is not a test. Oh, my son. Life is a gift. I feel energies since my near death experience. And my near death experience was the result of an automobile accident, a little bit different than Nancy's, but it was a family vacation. It was myself, my wife and our two boys in the car. And it was the Easter weekend. We had just celebrated Easter. We'd gone down to southern Utah, into the canyonlands and the beautiful red rocks. And Monday morning came and I put everyone in the car, buckled the boys in, and we were getting ready to make the five hour drive home. Now, there's interesting things leading up to this that I just want to touch on because as I was just pulling away from the curb, and we had been to visit my wife's family, her parents, and there's Grandma and grandpa waving on the porch the way they do. As I was just pulling away, my wife said, stop, stop. Now, I thought she'd forgotten something, but she looked at me and she said, I just want to say goodbye to mom and dad. When one more time now, in that moment, I thought, oh, women, you know, we've said goodbye. I gotta get on the road, we gotta get moving. But I noticed, and I watched as I stopped the car and she ran up to her mom and dad and she not only hugged them, but she kissed them each. And somehow I noticed that the reason I bring that up is we talk about the brain. We talk about these things that go on. Tamara, my wife, heard a whisper, an impression, an intuition, something said, wow, go say goodbye to mom and dad one more time. And she acted on that. When those impressions come, boy, act on that. Do something. Move. Take action. And she did. And then she ran back to the car and she jumped in. I put the car in drive. I got to the interstate, I cranked it up to 75 miles an hour. I set the cruise control. It was as fast as I could legally go. I was hurrying. You know that chatter in the head, well, I'm missing a day of work. I've got all this stuff to catch up on. And on we go. But there was a moment on the drive that I want to touch on too. And it's these moments in life, these pearls, it's like a string of pearls. Moment to moment to moment to moment. And as I was driving, I simply looked in the rear view mirror just to glance and see what traffic might be doing. And when I glanced in the rearview mirror. I saw my youngest son in his car seat. Griffin, 14 months old, just a toddler. And he was our miracle boy. We had been told we might not have more children after our first one came. And it's like time stood still. It was a moment I glanced, but I noticed him and I felt him. And I thought, what a miracle child. I noticed details. I noticed how his hands laid on the little car seat, and I noticed how long his eyelashes were. And then I heard my oldest son, 7 years old, Spencer, playing with action figures in the back seat, making all the joyful noise of a little boy. And then I glanced at my wife, who had put her seat back. She was sound asleep, but she was still holding onto my hand. And I thought, wow, 10 years into our marriage and she's still holding onto my hand like she did when I had a couple extra bucks as a college student and took her to the dollar movie. There was this moment of gratitude, this moment of peace, this moment of connection. And of course, my attention went back to the road. And away we went. And it was probably about an hour after that that it all came undone. Now there was reports of crosswinds. There was reports of a pickup truck that was driving erratically on the interstate. One of the toughest parts of telling this story is I believe I may have dozed off at the will, I may have just nodded off for a moment. But whatever happened, as I swerved to the right, I overcorrected to the left and I lost control of the car. And the car began to roll, not off the road, but down the road at 75 miles per hour. It was a horrific automobile accident and I blacked out for the rolling. But when the car came to a stop, I was completely conscious. The first thing I heard was my 7 year old son crying hysterically in the backseat. And as a father, I thought, I've got to get to my boy. I've got to get to my boy. But that's when I realized I couldn't move. I was pinned either to the floorboard or the seat. I couldn't tell. That was all the broken glass, the smell of the gasoline. And I was unaware of my injuries. I knew I was struggling to breathe and I felt as if I was losing consciousness. But what had actually happened was both of my legs had been crushed. The left leg was amputated above the knee. My back had been damaged, my rib cage was damaged, my lungs were collapsing. My right arm had almost been completely torn off. There was no rotator cuff or anything there. And then the seat belt had cut through and ruptured all my insides. I had no idea. All I knew was that my son was crying and I had to get to my boy. But that's when the brutal reality hit that no one else was crying. And I was acutely aware in that moment that both my wife and my youngest son were gone. They were killed instantly in the accident. Now, I don't share that, to be graphic or morbid, but that's the darkest hell a man could ever be in. I have a hysterical seven year old, half the family's gone, and I was driving the car. I mean, it was like, can't I have that three seconds back? Can't I just. What happened? What happened? And I set the stage with that because this is the setting as I begin to lose consciousness. And yet I felt light come. Light, tangible light. It felt as if it came and surrounded me, it held me. I felt as if I was being delivered or lifted up out of the accident scene. And suddenly I was fine. I could breathe. The pain was gone. I was incredibly conscious. And in that light, suddenly my wife, who I knew was died deceased at the scene. Suddenly she's right there and she's gorgeous, she's radiant. There's no injuries, but she begins to say, jeff, you gotta go back. You gotta go back, you can't come. And we had this conversation. If I stayed with her, our 7 year old would be orphaned. And we made a deal. We made a deal. For whatever reason, she couldn't come back. But for whatever reason, I could. Now that was the most profound goodbye I'll ever say. We agreed. I gave my word, I'd go raise our boy. And then we have no idea how powerful our thoughts are. When I made that choice, when I had that intention, I'm going, I'm going back. I didn't have to figure out how. Suddenly I found myself wandering about a very busy level one trauma center. And I have no concept of time in this bubble of light, if you will. I later found out people arrived at the scene. My 7 year old was banged up a little bit, but he physically walked away from the accident. I had to be extricated from the car and airlifted or life flighted to the trauma center. I had no idea of any of that. I. I knew I'd crashed the car. I knew I'd said the most profound goodbye I'd ever say. And here I was, moving about this hospital, aware of the doctors, the nurses, the patients, the families of the patients. It's like I had a 360 degree awareness. And everyone I saw, there was a connection. There was a oneness. There was an absolute knowing. I knew their love. I knew their hate. I knew their joy. I knew their motivations. I knew what was on their mind. One nurse passed by me. They were completely unaware of me, but I felt her life as if I was her and she was me. There was a oneness, as I say, I experienced the abuse she'd received as a child. And yet in that same moment, I saw the magnificence. Wow. Look at her. Serving, healing, helping in a hospital. This was true of everyone until I came upon a body or a man lying on the gurney that I didn't feel anything from, which I thought was odd. So I took a closer look, and that's when I realized, oh, my gosh, that's me. But it wasn't me. I was having this profound connected experience. But there was my body. That was the flesh, that was the skin suit. And I love when we get up and move our bodies, when we dance. I had this profound realization. It's like, wow. I took my body for granted. I never had to remind my heart to beat. You know, let's beat again, let's beat again. Or breathing. Sage. Thank you. It's like, wow. I didn't have to tell myself to breathe. I didn't have to teach my eyes to see. I was aware of the miracle machine our body is. And yet mine was so broken. Mine was so broken. And I knew I was to get back in it, get back in that body. Now I was ventilated. Big tube down my throat, doing the breathing for the lungs. You know, my legs were obviously immobile. My right arm was immobile. They eventually tied down my left arm. I kept grabbing at the medical equipment, but I was entering the body. I mean, we've talked about the mosque or the temples or the sacred, you know, buildings that people go into, but I became acutely aware, wow, that's all symbolic. If we go into a mosque or a temple to be enlightened, to learn, I realized my body literally was a temple. And I was to get in there. I was to go in for enlightenment, for awakening, for remembering. And it all became very symbolic, but it was a reality. I'm going back in my body. And again, thoughts are so powerful. Boom. There I was, back in the body, but back to the pain, the grief, the regret, the guilt, the trauma, all of it. Now, I spent almost six months in the hospital. I had 18 surgeries in total putting me back Together I had horrible infections. I was throwing pulmonary emboli, the blood clots that lodge in your lungs. It was an incredible experience. It was a horrifying experience and a painful one. But I grew. I learned perhaps the most profound thing on the journey was at the end of my hospital stay. And it's worth pointing out the two most profound near death experiences or out of body experiences were at the scene of the accident, you know, before morphine or any narcotics were administered. And then at the end of my hospital stay when I was off of the narcotics and I was just a week or so from coming home, I was in the rehabilitation wing. They. They were teaching me to move and walk and dress myself with. This arm was all in a sling. This leg was in a brace sticking straight out. This one had been lopped off above the knee. Had a colostomy bag to handle all the intestinal damage. But on this particular night, I fell sound asleep. And they had stabilized my abdominals so I could lay on my side. I'd laid so long on my back, I'd rubbed all the hair off the back of my head. I was bald. And my brothers were giving me a bad time about that. And I've got to give a shout out to my family. My brothers practically lost their jobs to come in and see and sit with me. But on this night, I fell into a profound sleep. And again that light came. That light came, and I was in so much grief at the loss. I mean, the physical injuries were nothing compared to the emotional injury. And as that light came, I once again felt as if I was rising above the hospital bed. It seemed to comfort and hold me. And then the light dispensed and I found myself in the most beautiful place. People say heaven, the spirit world, the other side. Nancy referred to this. The only word that comes close to what I was experiencing is I was home. I was home. So familiar, so welcomed. And it was interesting because it was a physical experience. I was whole. Both feet, both legs. I began to joyfully run. And I could feel the energy of the ground beneath my feet. I could feel the intelligence in my thighs and calves. And I. I was gleefully experiencing home and wholeness. And then I got the message. I wasn't there to stay. And at that same time, there was this corridor off to the left. And I knew intuitively I'm to go down that corridor now. My grief around my youngest son had been so intense. His car seat had broken up and he had been ejected from the car. And that haunted me as I made My way down this corridor. At the end of the corridor was a crib. Now, Griffin, at 14 months, was still sleeping in a crib at the time of the accident. And so I began making my way to the crib. And when I got to the crib, I looked in, and there was my little boy. And he was perfect. And I noticed the details. I noticed how long his eyelashes were. And I swept him up in my arms. And I don't know if you've ever picked up a sleeping child. There's a weight and there's a heat to it. And I was experiencing that. I picked him up. He was solid against my body. I could feel his breath on my neck. I leaned over and I smelled his hair. The senses were all there. I smelled his hair. It was my boy. I began to weep. And as I wept, there was this incredible presence behind me. This powerful, overwhelming, cosmic presence. And I began to be fearful. To me, that was God. And my little boy was here because I lost control of the car. His life was cut short because I overcorrected or had the crash. And as that presence came closer and closer, I was holding my son. And I had the thought, I hope I can be forgiven. As I had that thought, and this almost felt physical, too. I felt these divine arms just wrap around and hold us both. And it's almost like we became one. And the first download, the first information, almost not even words, but coming through my whole soul was, there's nothing to forgive. Everything's in divine order. I saw my life, and I had grown up in a conservative Christian tradition. And I thought, well, life's a test, and I'm probably failing. I believed that. That, you know, God or the angels were keeping score and I was not winning. And as I began to see my life, I said, oh, I'm failing the test. And this divine being that I call God that held me said, life is not a test. Oh, my son. Life is a gift. Every moment, every day. And I begin to see my life differently. I learned a lot about choice. In fact, I was given a choice as I held my son. I was told that I could be mad at God my whole life because this was allowed to happen. And that was a choice. I also was given the choice. I could beat myself up for the rest of my life because I was driving the car. But I was given another choice. In fact, this benevolent being said, I want you to exercise your will. And I said, my will? Given my upbringing, I thought, oh, it's your will be done. I was taught that since I was young and the God that held me said, my will is your will. That's how much we love you. My will is that you have free will, that you get to choose and you can give your son back, you can trust and hand him over. And in all that love and in all that peace, I was able to kiss my little boy and hand him over and then back to the hospital bed, to the amputation, the braces, the injuries, the wheelchair, the colostomy bag. But with a new perspective, with a new connection, with a new understanding. It's not that I didn't grieve. I don't want anyone to think that I had this horrible accident and I had this profound near death experience and I was okay. The accident happened, the profound things happened. But I grieved like any man would grieve. And yet I had a new understanding, a new connection, a new feeling, a new knowledge that we are divine beings, that death is not the end. In fact, as I looked at my body, I believe it had nothing to do with my brain. My brain was in the body on the gurney. But I was having this profound experience, this connection, this eternal knowing. And when I was in the arms of God and feeling all that love, I knew it was very personal. But I also knew it expanded to everyone, to every living soul, that we are that loved, we're that divine, we're that beloved, and that we have all that free will, that we get to choose not always what happens to us, but certainly how we can respond to it and react to it. One thing quickly, just to wrap up, going home was interesting. And he was my 7 year old son who had survived the accident. I'd been the rough and tumble dad and I was going home in a wheelchair. You know, with all the medical things going on, I thought, how will he accept this? How will he possibly accept me now? He'd been staying at my brother's house and I actually had to go home to my brother's house because that was home health and physical therapy and all the things going on with it. And as my brothers took me home and they would literally have to lift me up and put me in this electric wheelchair that I could drive with my one left hand, I saw Spencer, my 7 year old, looking out the window, watching his uncles, my brothers, into the wheelchair. And as I began to move the wheelchair, he ran out of the house and he ran toward me and I thought, how is he going to accept this? And he ran right past me. And I thought, I know it's too much. I Know it's too much. So I continued and they'd put a ramp that I could get in the house with and as I turned the wheelchair to go up the ramp, I just looked to see where my oldest son went and he had run across the street and he was knocking on all the neighbors doors and he was saying come out, come out. My dad made it home, come and see my dad. And then he came and he threw himself on my lap which just about killed me because I still had all the sutures and everything from. And he threw his arms around me and I said, look, I'm going to work really hard to get well, but it's going to be like this for a while. He was a Star wars nut and I said they're going to make me a cool Darth Vader leg and I'm going to learn how to walk and we're going to get through it, but are you going to be okay with this? And he said, dad, if you were nothing but a puddle of blood, I would still love you. Now I share this for a specific reason. Because there I was in a wheelchair holding my surviving son in this realm and it was no less divine than being in another realm holding my son that had passed heaven, if you will, was right here. There was nowhere to go, there was nothing to become. There was to simply be in that precious perfect moment and feel the unconditional love of a child which was congruent to the unconditional love of a divine creator. And to just be. To just be and to embrace that and to experience that and to be with it. I know we're going to open it up for questions and I'm an open book, you can ask me anything. I will have a response. I won't have your answers. I know you have your answers, but I'll give you an honest response.

Thank you Jeff.

Lift you up.

No matter how far apart. I guess you could call it a chance.

Thank you. And we'll take some. There we go, we got them both. So we'll take some questions. Anyone who has question raise your hand. Micro just take it straight to them. Yes, right on the side. Go ahead.

Hi both of you, thank you so much. I feel like an hour ago I was like oh my God, we're going to go late. And now I feel like I can hear to both of you for the rest of the morning now. Thank you. My best friend lost her 14 year old son to suicide about a year ago. And two things I heard from you, unconditional love and then from you consequences. So I don't know if you can share some wisdom that I can share with her. I've been trying to be open and present and all love for her, but two things are happening. Her husband had a fight with his son right before that happened. So the amount of guilt that he's living with is beyond this world. To the point that my friend thinks that at any point she may lose her husband too. That's one I forgot. The other one, oh, very Christian based, my friend. So she's always wondering because he took his own life, is he going to heaven? Right. So I don't know. I've been with those two questions trying to find some answers for her. So I thought that maybe the two of you, because of your experience, measure some wisdom.

Thank you. Nancy, would you like to go or shall I jump in? Because I do have some feelings around that.

Let me jump in real quick with a really good resource for your friend and your friend's husband. There is a global organization, it's international, called Helping Parents Heal. Helping Parents Heal. And it was originally specifically begun to help parents of children who have died by suicide. So that's the first thing that I would say is to pass that along because that has helped so many parents, so many parents. Second thing is that there, there, there is no judgment. Your friend's son is certainly where he needs to be, which is in love with the divine, with the Creator. The consequences for him, I don't know what those are. He may have to do a little bit of work to help other people. I don't know what those might be. But there is no separate place that people who die by suicide are sent to. We're all going to the same place. It's all love. I call it heaven just because I have a Christian background. But some people call it the afterlife. But it is all about love and about, you know, like Jeff said, there is nothing to forgive. But we do, oftentimes when we do things that maybe we might consider questionable. It's really interesting because when I had my nde, I had a life review, which is when I saw all those times where I did things maybe I shouldn't have done. The immediate reaction is, first of all, you're not judged, but you are wanting yourself to make things right. So I suspect that may be what will be going on with the young man is he will want to somehow, whatever that will be for him, make things right. Because that is so overwhelming. And when I came back, when I was sent back here, that was the first thing I did. I was making amends with everybody. Now he'll have to do his work from a different perspective, but my guess is that he's going to want to make some amends as well. But there is no judgment like that, like we have been taught. It's all love. It's all support and there's nothing to forgive.

Thank you so, Jeff, that's beautiful. Give her hand, Jeff.

I couldn't agree more. The God who held me was nothing but love. Unconditional love. In fact, I looked at my life and I said, well, that was a mistake. I didn't mean to do that. And all I was asked is, what did you learn? What did you learn? I saw things and I thought, well, that was wrong. And I knew it was wrong and I did it anyway. And I was told, that's your judgment of it, not ours. You're as beloved and precious as the child you hold. You are a manifestation of there is no judgment. This perception that because someone takes their own life is wrong or a sin. There is no right or wrong. There is no good or bad. There is only what is and there's only love. Based on my experience, and it's not theology or a theory. He was embraced, he was held, he was loved, he got to see. And sometimes those things become our greatest teachers. My little boy who passed shows up for me in dreams. And I'm not pretending that he's a toddler running around in that other realm. I think that God is so kind. The universe knew I just needed to hold my boy. He's come to me as a full grown guardian angel, if you will, at this point. And there is no judgment. And with these parents, their child has the same connection. He's not died, there is no death. He's transformed. And he's now there to hold the context for their healing, for their growth, for their soul's journey, which will expand their heart in such a way that he loved them enough to go. And they might expand in ways that they could have never otherwise done. And he was the catalyst. And so it's honored by me and it's honored by the universe. But thank you for asking the question. I send my blessings to them. Having a child pass is the deepest wound I know. And helping parents heal is a wonderful organization. I've had interactions with them and to have community and support is important. So thank you for asking.

There you go.

Question.

Thank you both. That was really powerful and absolutely wonderful. I really liked hearing both your different experiences. I suppose this probably is a bit more for Nancy because you touched on holding your boy. Nancy, you said you felt like you were there for sort of three months and you interacted and learned and things. I was just wondering if you felt like you. There was like other people that you interacted with and things like that or it was just like a personal solo experience.

Oh, this is a really good question. I had one teacher, one spiritual being who was a teacher the whole time I was there. So she was there for that whole. What I felt like was three months. I did have an experience with God or the divine presence very briefly at the very beginning. I was not, I was specifically not allowed to see my family members who had pre deceased me. I asked. I wasn't allowed to because it would have been too traumatic. I would have not wanted to come back here. So I was not allowed to see them. But I did have kind of in the background. It was very interesting. I had what felt like at least a hundred other friends who I knew were. They were my spirit friends, people that I knew from before, from home, but who weren't necessarily in a life right now. But they were there kind of in the background. And once in a while one of them would speak to me. But I didn't actually see them until the very kind of toward the very end. And I just saw them very briefly. But for the most part it was just the one teacher the whole time I was there.

Okay, great.

Thank you very much. I don't know if there's anything more that you might want to say about that or.

No, I mean, I obviously had interactions with those that had passed and every experience is different. I mean, I've seen and heard hundreds of near death experiences now. And the near death experience is as unique as our life experience. And to touch on that point too, I mean, the out of body or near death experience, that's one thing. But gosh, what about the life experience? What about the in body experience and the people we interact with here that have not passed? I mean, that's the beauty. To me, it's like, wow, make that phone call, write that letter, give that hug, do that thing. Because we don't always get tomorrow. And so putting all that aside, wow. What about the people in this room and the people under your roof and the people that deserve your love and your connection right here, right now.

Beautiful. Thank you very much for both of you.

Couple more. How about back here in the corner? No, you, right here.

Thank you both for sharing. I'm curious what your thoughts are on reincarnation.

I'd be happy to Chime in on that. In my near death experience, I didn't have a past life knowledge, but I knew that not only I, but all of us are eternal. I was eternal. I had no beginning, no end. And I am completely open to the fact that love would allow whatever experiences would expand my soul. And if that's coming back and doing over again and learning and learning and learning. I'm completely open to that. And I've actually had some interesting, what remembrances of perhaps past life experiences and totally open to it, totally accept it.

Nancy, what would your response be?

Yeah, there was something that I didn't talk about at all when I was explaining my experience, but this is, this is good that you're bringing this up. I was shown other lifetimes that I had had. And at first it bothered me a little bit because I wasn't really familiar with reincarnation. I mean, I'd heard about it, but I wasn't really familiar with how it worked when I had my nde. But I was shown these other lives at other times and other places. But it was like Jeff said, we are infinitely present. We are infinite, expansive beings. So it totally makes sense that if we need it, if we even want to, we are allowed or even encouraged to come back in a different place, in a different time. It doesn't have to be linear, though. Time doesn't. As you could maybe have guessed from my nde, time doesn't work the same way. And so what we call a past life may actually not be in the past. It may be in our future. So my next life, if I choose to have one, might actually end up being 3000 years BC. It's totally possible, but it's, it's really for your benefit, your soul's benefit. If it's of benefit to you, then it is allowed. Like, like Jeff said, you know, the divine is love, infinite love. What I was told, the divine is love all encompassing and all inclusive. And so that that level of love would allow for coming back if it's deemed appropriate.

It's interesting how you. It's interesting. It's interesting how you say if you want to come back, like you have a choice too. You feel.

I think some, some do. I don't know the intricacies of how all this works. This part is good. Like, like Tony mentioned earlier, there are some things that are mysterious. This is one of those areas that's a little bit mysterious to me about how some of the functionality of this works. I was told by my teacher that for me, I wouldn't necessarily have to come back ever again if I chose not to. And she said, some souls choose never to actually incarnate. They're able to do what they need to do or learn what they need to learn without actually inhabiting a physical body. And she said, some souls just love being here.

And if you've seen God, what did he look like?

I didn't get to see anything.

Thank you so much.

Two more. Two more. Mike Renner. Just grab one nearby.

Hi. Thank you for that account from both of you. I've done some research on NDEs before and I'm fascinated by it. I completely believe that both of you. I mean, every account that I've read, it's been similar. But I've struggled with two questions. One is, I come from an Indian faith and we believe in karma. And yesterday Sister Shivani talked about karma. And I've never been able to reconcile how karma fits into that. Everybody goes to heaven, whatever you want to call it. And everybody's loved because all of the accounts say that I'm loved and I can do no wrong.

But.

But I've never been able to make sense of, well, what happens to the bad people that hurt other people on earth. And the second question is, how do you explain overpopulation or population multiplying? So any insights into both?

Well, sex usually is part of the process.

How do souls multiply?

So I don't know. Well, can I. I want to jump in real quick with both of those. So the karma thing. Think about karma as consequences. And like I mentioned before, we do have consequences. If we do something here. Oftentimes that's not. That's not helpful. We're going to get hit with consequences, you know, whatever that happens to be. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now because I'm kind of not in that space. But. But just think about karma as consequences. But that doesn't prevent you from being loved. That doesn't prevent someone from being loved. What that does mean is that they may have to do some amends, making in some way, shape or form that's completely independent of you and me. It's theirs and theirs alone. So I think about karma that way. If we don't work out those consequences here in this life, we're going to have to figure out a way to work them out later after we go. But we are loved. If you have children, you love your children, but that doesn't mean that you like something that they do. If perhaps they say something negative to a grocery store Clerk, you're not going to be very happy with that child, but that doesn't mean that you don't love them. So that's kind of how it works. There might be consequences to that for that child. Maybe they'll feel bad about what they did and that's the consequence. But just think about it in terms of consequences. So whoever, if someone does something what we might call heinous, they will have consequences, but they are still loved. And I'm totally spacing on your second question.

Well, the multiplication of.

Oh yeah, think about the universe itself. You're thinking about just Earth. Souls are infinite and souls are everywhere across the universe. Now, I don't particularly happen to know all the ins and outs of how, again, all that works, but a lot of people have that same question. But it's because they're thinking about just the Earth as the one planet. And that's all there is out there. We are not the universe. The universe is much more infinite than just us. So in my view and in my understanding, there is effectively an infinite number of souls that could come here.

Thank you. It makes a lot of sense.

Give her a hand. And then what would your view be? Yeah, Jeff, do you have a view on this?

I. I know that we have free will. We make choices and we experience the results of our choices. That could be karma, the consequences. Just like Nancy said, there's only love and yet experience is the only true teacher. I know many near death experiencers. In fact, I experienced some of this in my life review as realizing how I made another feel what my actions caused in another's emotions or in another's experience. And that was a pretty powerful thing. Also how I had judged others. My parents divorced when I was young and my big brother became the father figure in the home. And he taught me how to, you know, play sports and do all the things. He became the father figure. And I always felt he was so mean to me. But when I watched in my life review, I saw when I was in second grade and I was learning to play baseball and he had taught me how to hit the ball and everything else and it was played back to me the first baseball game I played in and we didn't do T ball or coach pitch. I mean, they threw the ball, but I hit it, I got a hit and it went and I ran around first base, ran around second base, but I didn't touch the second base bag. And so as I came to third, they threw the ball and, and tagged me out because I was flustered. You Know, as I rounded second, they said, you gotta go back and touch the bag. And I ran and touched it, but then came back and they threw me out. And there was my big brother, you know, all of, like, you know, 10 years old, standing there watching me, like, oh, boy. And when the game was over, he made me run the bases, touching every base again. She's 10, you know, and I'm like, what? I'm like seven or something, touching the base. And in that moment, I thought, he's so mean. Why is he so damn mean to me? You know? But from a higher perspective, I saw it as love. Wow. He loved me that much. He didn't want to see his little brother ever screw up again. You touch every base and you get it right and you get it down. And he's still a fantastic mentor in my life. But the perspective, so what I was judging as mean or wrong or, you know, challenging, I saw it at a different perspective, which, wow, even that was love. So perhaps that's karma. How we make others feel and what we do, the population. I believe that there's enough. That there's always enough. If we consciously managed our resources, people wouldn't go hungry. People wouldn't be lonely. If we locked arms as society and said, let's make it different. Let's create heaven here. Let's feed the hungry and clothe the naked and take care of those and have communities that can lock arms and walk each other home. That there is enough, that there's not too many. There's not overpopulation. I think the universe is wise enough manage that, even with sex, which is the constant thing. That's what makes the world go around. But we're in such good hands. We're in such good hands, and if we managed our resources, we would be. We would be whole.

Thank you. One more question. Mike Griner. Grab one of the people your choice. Grab one of the people your choice.

Hello.

Hey. My name is Jay, and I want to thank you both for sharing your stories. So powerful. I really, really appreciate it. You know, I. I lost a son to suicide years ago, and I also, you know, lost my mother to a rare disease. And although it's not necessarily so fond, in some of the conversations we've had tonight, I've had some very powerful experiences on plant medicines that have helped me reconnect with both of their souls.

And.

I've also had some very powerful connections with spirits. Like you said, spirit guides, ancestors. And I guess my question is, I felt this very deep connection to my heritage. Right. Like that everybody in my, you know, traced my lineage back. Right. All the souls that have lived before me, it's like they have this very vested interest in not just me, but in all of us. Right. So everybody has their. Like I said, their heritage that's so vested in what we accomplish in this life, how well we learn and how well we love and how well we perform. And I'd just love for you guys to speak more about that. You have such an interesting perspective, Nancy, so if you could talk more about that, I'd really appreciate it.

Well, that's actually really interesting. The heritage aspect is one that I didn't. I normally don't talk about when I do these talks, so thanks for bringing that up. Yeah. In fact, it's like when I was in that time when I was in heaven or whatever you want to call it, in that nde, I said that I had about. It felt like about 100 people around me, but I couldn't necessarily see them all the time. I could hear them. And I felt like some of those were probably my ancestors. But they're cheering us on. It's really interesting how. How much they want for us to succeed and it. And it isn't. I don't think it's just for us as individuals. I think part of it is. I think part of it is. And part of it is for us to learn whatever lessons that we're in the middle of learning, like, yeah, go after it. Go get it. But I think there's also a component here, and this gets into a kind of an advanced topic that I sometimes kind of avoid talking about. But there's a. There's an evolution of the human as well that's going on. Not just our own souls, not just our own bodies. But I think all of those ancestors are cheering us on because the more of us that do this work and that make these advancements that live more consciously, that live more. What I call live more from your soul, we help the other people here, too, kind of raise up the entire humanity, really. And so that's where I think some of the cheering comes on from. At least my ancestors is, yeah, go out and do it. Because when you. When I do my stuff, when I do my meditations and all of the things that I do as a spiritual practice, it not only helps me, but it helps the people around me, whether I know them or not. And so that means my neighborhood, even my city, is helped out just a tiny little bit by every person that makes these strides forward in advancing their own consciousness and Their own ability to live the life that they really are meant to live.

Beautiful, Abraham. Thank you.

Yeah, I agree with Nancy. The ancestors, our connection, connection. They cheer us on. I think mine laugh at me a lot. I also feel that they reverence us. It's like, wow, those are the ones. They're the noble and great ones that came to do this experience, this life school, this challenging thing that will expand our souls. And they're here to support. They're here to cheer us on. They're here to reverence our journey. And they're here to whisper in our ears and touch our hearts and guide us and lead us along the way as well. And I think generational healing can happen. You might be living and having an experience in healing generations along your DNA trail, if you will, as they watch, as they observe, and as they honor your journey. So thank you for asking the question. It's a good one, one, one follow.

Up, if you don't mind. So you guys seem so in tune with your experiences like that, you know, the way that you speak of it. But we all go through ebbs and flows in life, right? How do you guys reconnect to that time? Because it was so long ago, right? Like, you know, something happens within weeks or months afterwards. A lot of times it's very fresh. But then as time fades. So what is your practice to stay so pure in these memories and to make sure that you're, I don't know, doing the work that you were brought back here to do?

It's a roller coaster, my brother. It's up and down and up and down and up and down. And I have high points and I have low points. I remember being in the hospital when I was very sick and on the verge and I was watching the heart monitor go up and down and up and down and up and down. And now when life goes up and down and up and down and it does, life is going to life. I think, thank God I'm alive. Thank God my heart's beating. It's up and down and up and down. And to me, that's a sign that I'm living, that I'm here, that I'm having the experience. And I bought the full feature ticket. You know, I want to get the film and the drink and the popcorn, but I'm going to have some sticky floor and gum under the seat, too. But what a gift. It's all love and it's all a gift. So thank you.

We got one more. Nancy, by the way, think about this. If you looked at that Monitor. And it was just, what does that mean? That's your other choice?

Yeah.

How about you, Nancy?

So, I mean, that's a super question and, and it's one that I asked myself about three months after my NDE is what am I going to do with this now? Because we often don't mention that there's about a. It varies depending on the person. But for me, it was about a three month high after my nde. I was on cloud nine. You could not bring me down. Nothing at all was bad in my life. I loved everybody. I was telling the housekeepers in the hospital, oh my God, you guys are so great. I just love all of you. So that's how I was for about three months. And then I got home and reality hit and I knew that I needed to do, do something like you said, to reconnect because I, I felt bereft of that connection. And, and I didn't like that feeling because it was so supportive when, when I was there in, in that realm and then to come back here and it be gone. So I realized first of all that it was all up to me. I had my choice that I could let that experience go and forget about it or just dive into it and see where it led me. So that was the first thing I did, is I said, okay, let's see where this goes. And then I began to do my spiritual seeking. And I did that because I wanted to learn ways to reconnect with that sense of love and greatness and unity. So I went about and I found like several different practices that really helped me to reconnect to that. And it took a while, it took about 18 months, almost two years to really cement that in my life. So the first thing that I will typically do in the morning is just a quick gratitude practice. And I don't even consider it a practice because I am still so grateful that I can get up and walk, that I can run, that I can do all the things that I did before that. My back is still, it's in good shape now, even though it's got a lot of metal in it. But I'm so still grateful for my life every day. Every day. I'm so grateful for this. And I'm grateful for my kid and my grandchild now who's just born recently.

Congratulations.

I go through that. Thanks. I go through, through that gratitude before I even put my feet on the ground in the morning, getting up out of bed, that's the first thing. And then the next thing I'll do is Some prayer work, which lasts about 10 minutes or so in the morning, and then I usually take a break midday. And this is when I do either a meditative practice or a contemplative practice. And I've got a few that I've developed for myself. Most of them revolve around cultivating love in my life. And so I'll go into. One common one that most people can look up on the Internet is contemplative prayer. And it's a form of meditation, really, is what it is. But it worked really well for me. And doing those things, making a habit of them, has just helped me stay more in tune with that sense of oneness in God, really. I do go through ups and downs, but the ups aren't as. As maybe necessarily as high anymore, but the lows are definitely nowhere near as low. But I do go through those times, and we all do. But now I have. Because I do this practice, I have a different perspective on all of that. My perspective is of at the higher level, like, yeah, this is going to pass. And sometimes I. Even if I get into a state. State where I get anxious about something which doesn't happen as often now, very rarely, I'll find myself laughing at myself for being. Putting myself in the state of anxiety. And then I'm able to just pop right out of it and look at the situation from that different perspective. So it took work. It took work to get here. I just want to put that out there. It wasn't some kind of a magic pill. It took a lot of work.

Can we have a huge hand for both these Beautiful soul. Thank you, Nancy. Thank you, Jeff.