The Death of a Team – What Happens When The Game Is Over | The Game Inside The Games, Ep. 5

Welcome to New Orleans and the game. Inside the Games presented by Microsoft Copilot. I am sport and performance psychologist Dr. Michael Gervais.

I'm Brandon Marshall. Together, we're pulling back the curtain on the psychology of pivotal moments that can make or break a Super bowl team.

There's a moment sometime after the confetti falls, when realization sets in. This is the last time this team will ever be together. It doesn't matter if you win or if you lose. It doesn't matter how close you are to your teammates or how long you've been on the roster. Every team, every year dies after the Super Bowl. Some will leave for bigger contracts, some will stay, some will retire. Some will never play again. And no one really talks about it, but all players feel it. There's this thing right underneath the surface that we're coming to the end. So, Brandon, you've been in locker rooms the moment the season ends. It happens every. Every year. What is the season ending moment like for you on a. On a normal basis? Like what. What is that like for you?

Yeah, I mean, there's only one winner at the end of the year, right? The one who's hoisting up the Lombardi. So for everyone else, I want to throw around a term, and I, you know, I got to be careful here because of the stigma, but it's depressing. It's sad. You know, you. You have guys that are packing up their lockers in black truck trash bags, right? So you're throwing all of your stuff there, and that's the end of it, right? So it doesn't feel good. And you also know that this is the last time that you're going to see some of your boys, right, that you, you were with for so many months. You saw these people more than you saw your family, right? Because you got to think about it. You're together six days a week, sometimes seven. And we're there, from some of us, 6am, 7am to 5, 6pm so it's one of the toughest times. One of the toughest times in our season is that end of the year. And I just picture the black trash bags. It's a thing in the NFL, right? People know, like, yeah, you get cut or you gotta clean out your locker, they just hand you a black trash bag.

And so oftentimes, the reason I wanted to bring this up with you is because loss is part of sport. And the same part of the brain that deals with grief, loss, like actual loss of a loved one, is the same part of the brain actually that works with loss of a game, and then the ending is a loss of a team. And so it is a complicated process to go through. And did you, when it came to the last game of the season, did you have this idea like this could be our last time that we're together, or was that below the surface? You didn't want to deal with it? That's a distraction to high performance. How did you manage at one level, the knowing that it's coming to an end, and at the other, like the need to commit to giving yourself the best chance to be your very best.

It's interesting that you. You say it that way because it's so true. It's painful. It does feel like a death. And it's another moment and opportunity for majority of us to mask it, which we do.

Yeah.

And that's why we end up in, you know, ruins or challenges post season or post career, because we don't deal with some of these things. There's a lot of trauma when it comes to moments like this, and we're not equipped or we don't lean into them, we actually run away from them. Right. Because we're trained to be present, be here now, which is very powerful. But when that season ends, we're just on to the next. We're actually also trained to deal with the comings and goings of people.

Right.

So it's almost like we are desensitized to loss. Next play, next man up. So we know that this team is going to change. There may be even changes in, you know, the coaching staff, support staff, but it's okay. We got to just focus on the next thing. And the next thing is the off season.

I remember the first time that the Seahawks, when we went to the super bowl, it was right underneath the surface, and it was a decision, do we embrace it or not? Do we bring forward that this week will be the last time that we'll see each other, or do we just pretend like it's going to happen for, you know, the next hundred years? So we chose to not bring it forward. And we did it in a demonstratively, but we brought it forward in a very subtle way, which is like, cherish this, cherish each other.

That's good.

Right? And so make sure this was my. My note to the team, to the athletes. Make sure that you find moments to connect with the people that you haven't connected with the way you'd like to connect, because this is all temporary. And so that I believe that the fragility, when you embrace the Fragility of a moment, it pulls you in deeper to it. And it can be really scary, though, because this might be the last time you and I see each other. We don't know that.

That's right.

Yeah. And that's really scary.

But here's what's cool about listening to you talk right now. That's the difference between winning a Super bowl, which you guys did.

Yes, we did.

Right?

Yes, we did.

Not. Like, you guys are thinking about these things. The losing teams, they're not thinking about these things.

Yeah.

And so I'm sitting here and I'm like, wow, you know, how often was I actually in a championship organization, high performing organization? There's only so much I can do as a player right in the locker room. But a lot of it has to come from top down when you talk about, buy into the mind, you know, performance. So it was interesting hearing you break that down that way.

Yeah. I mean, there's a fine line between dealing with the reality of things and then also staying a little bit more at the surface to deal with the performance of things and knowing how to toggle between those two elements. There's an art in that, for sure. Sure. Because if we stay down and like, oh, my God, I might not ever see you again or you again, like, I don't know, like, there's. There's too much. But if we only stay at the crust, then we just get kind of whipped around by whatever the stressors of life are.

You're asking me a lot of questions, but I feel like it's time for me to ask you some questions. Right. Because you were actually here at the Super Bowl. You have the ring. Right. You won one, you lost one. You've also been around players, like, the same questions you're asking me as a player. But you saw this in your position. Guys that got it right, guys that didn't. So can you tell us, you know, some of the stories, the cool moments from the super bowl and how you guys approached it, how you. How you prep the coaches, how you prep some of the players to embrace this moment and deal with it?

Wanted to thank you. And then I'll just. Course. Crack. One thing is that I didn't win anything. I got to be part of a team that won him. Right.

I disagree.

Really?

I mean, yeah, of course you did.

I got to be part of a team.

We're running around here. And that's one of the questions that I'm asking. And you guys will see some of this content, you know, on all of our Platforms here, but I'm running around here without you. And I'm asking the guys like Justin Jefferson or Cam Jordans of the world, the Raheem Mosters of the world, like, how much of the game is mental and how much is it. How much of it is physical? Now Cam Jordan's on the lower end where he's like, is it 40 to 60? But most of the guys are saying 70 to 80. So when you think about that, right, like, no, you won a championship. Because if my mind isn't right as a player, then my body can't follow.

Yeah. If your mind's not right, you can't access your craft. And you spend. We spend so much time investing in our craft. The right footwork, the right technique, the right focus, all of that. And if you. If you don't have the mental skills to deal with high stress, high speed environments, it's like you can. You just can't reach it. You can't reach the crowd.

That's right. That's right.

So one of the things that I think Coach Carroll and the Seahawks, what we did really well is we understood that there's a line to get to. And that line is really intense. There's an intensity when you're really sharp. It is a high stress environment. And if you put it. If you challenge people too much and get them revved up too much, then it becomes very messy. So we wanted to make sure that we were going to. Everyone's on board. Let's challenge each other to get right to that line and then let's invest in the psychological skills to come down, to be able to deal with that stress breathing, self talk. Da, da, da. Okay. So that gave us more room to push. You see how this works?

Yes.

So we got to push really hard.

You have the skills and tools to.

Back it down, to stay regulated with each other. Now, all that being said, this is not talked about. Now. I'm not going to use names because athlete code, but two days before the super bowl, in the locker room. Now, we are a relationship based organization that is developmentally minded. The developmentally minded is technical skills, physical skills, mental skills, all encompassed in the relationships that we're building with each other and ourselves.

Yep.

Okay. That's the model. Two days before the Super Bowl. And so the first Super Bowl. Okay. Okay. That's right. That's important. The one we won in pretty dramatic fashion. Yeah. Two athletes got in a fistfight.

Oh, wow.

On the same side of the ball in the same room. So these are teammates. And there was so much tension, right? And we, we trusted. Everyone's got these abilities to regulate. We're going to keep reminding them on how to down regulate. And we were right on that, that wild edge. And one of them kind of lost his way a little bit and it happened. And so. And then the most brilliant part of Coach Carroll, he's like, perfect, right?

He said perfect.

He said, listen, we're right at the edge. Hey, take care of each other. Figure it out now, like, fix this to the two athletes. Like, great, we're at the edge. You know, let's make sure that we don't lose each other now. Because it got so tense about something. It was. Who said something? Who knows what it was. And they didn't have any other language. So they got physical, but they didn't hate each other. They weren't like in that space. So they worked it out. It was great. And most people would hear the story and think, oh, my God, there was a fight in the locker room before the what?

But that's. We're used to that as athletes. That type of environment, I always say, like the military and also professional sports is one. It's like a toxic. Can be a toxic and environment, but it's. There's, there's. There, there. There aren't any other environments outside of military. For me, professional sports, where your best is needed every single day. And you're, you're in that environment of high performance and you have these emotions that you have to manage and deal with. So me listening to that story, I'm not surprised. But for people out there watching this and hearing this for the first time, absolutely. What made.

Wait, wait, let me, let me add one more thing here. Is that what made that work. I'm going on that vibe for just a second. Is that what's not told in that story is the unbelievable amount of time early on in the season, preseason, early in the season, that the team invested in the relationships with each other.

That's good.

So there was a base there. And even if, like say you and I got in a fistfight now, not a.

You might know something, you know, but you know, MMA or something.

But what I'm also counting on, and you're also counting on is the whole team to rally around us and, and, and help fix and repair.

That's right.

The, the rupture. And so the, the team had a really strong bond that was taking care of each other. Whether it was something wild on the sidelines, whether it was, you know, at a club or in a locker room. Rule Number one, Coach Carroll. I don't know if you remember it. Always protect the team, and that means be a great teammate. To be a great teammate, you need to know each other.

Yeah. So. So you talk about Coach Pero, Coach Carroll, Right. What's his genius? Like, I only had a cup of tea with you guys, right? Like, I was there. I was a big fan of Coach Carroll, Right. We built a relationship before I even got there, so it made it easier. But I was there for, you know, seven months, right? So I was able to see it. I was able to see what the culture that you guys built, see the environment, and I loved it. Right. But you were there, what, nine years with them.

Nine seasons. Yeah.

What's the thing? Like, I. What I. My takeaway was, this is one of the greatest leaders in the world, not just sports.

Yeah.

Am I off there, or am I on the money?

Okay, I'll tell you. I'll tell you what is not celebrated about what was happening there. And this starts with Coach Carol, is one, the intention, and two, a process to really understand what makes the other person special. So every coach was responsible to understand what made Brandon Marshall special. And that takes deep thinking. You've got to go away. You got to watch on the field and practice, like, oh, great footwork. Oh, this, that, and the other. But what really makes him special? And we wanted you to know that. We see that. So we'd make sure we calibrate. And sometimes the athlete would come on top and be like, wait, that's all you think? That's all you think, which is great. No, let's calibrate.

Right.

So it's all about, like, seeing what the potential of another person is and then saying, are we on the same page? And then both nod our heads like, yeah, we're on the. All right. My job is to hold the standard.

Wow.

For that to be an honest expression of what you're capable of, not just the imagination of what we think it could be be. So. And then what we would do is that you support people and then challenge them, know them, and then hold the standard. And the support part is like, look, I don't care what you actually do. Like, you're a good man, and I see these things in you. Now I'm going to challenge you to be that person that we say that you. You think you can be.

Wow.

And then we just want all of your uniqueness to come forward. That's all we would ask. And Coach Carroll was great at this. Saturday night, before the game, he'd say, Look. Hey, Bobby. Bobby Wagner. What are you gonna do out there, Coach? I'm gonna have fun, Right? Like this. This would happen a lot. And then coach would say something. Maybe it's not Bobby. Maybe it's somebody else. Say, hey, Russ. Hey, whatever. You think you're gonna make any mistakes? Yeah, probably. You got a teammate that's gonna help you out, and everyone's like, yup. Oh, wow. So people like, I got your back. I got your back. So we created an environment where mistakes are part of it.

Yeah.

So don't go out and try to do anything.

You guys created a culture that weren't. Where guys weren't afraid to fail.

That's it. They weren't afraid to make mistakes because they had teammates. And that's what great teammates do. You get knocked down. I got you. I pick you up. So all we were challenging you to do, Brandon, is to be your very best. That. That version of you that we hope we are seeing.

Yeah.

And just be your unique self.

So listen, you're the host of this podcast. Love this conversation. But can I ask one more question?

Oh, yeah, I'm with you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Coach Carroll led for a very long time college football, National Football League, and leading alphas.

Alpha males.

That's right.

Yeah. Alpha competitors.

Right towards the end of his career. Right. Couldn't keep it on track. Meaning from a win, loss standpoint, culture hasn't changed. His approach didn't change. But I'm bringing this up because he was. He and the Seattle Seahawks agreed to part ways. Right.

Yep.

Goes to Hawaii. I don't know where he went, but he had to sit for a year. We talk about adversity, and you're. We're talking. You're asking me about a player, but we have one of the most legendary coaches and the most. One of the most legendary leaders that the world has ever seen. What did he do? Do you know? Did you stay in contact with us? Anything that you can share with us that can help us grow when we face adversity? Because he wanted to continue.

Oh, he. Yeah, he was competing to stay.

So. So. So, yeah, walk us through that, because I think there's some key learnings for us.

Yeah. So I love that we're talking about this, because what Coach Carroll did, let's be clear, he wanted to stay in ball. And he made the choice that the terms were not right. And so they parted ways. Seattle and Coach Carroll parted ways. And what he ended up doing is finding this interesting balance between fishing, family, and football. Okay. So he went fishing to go get connected to Mother Nature. He reinvested in his relationships with his family members, and he also watched Young Ball. So his grandson is a quarterback, so of course he's keeping keeping an eye on what's happening in the NFL, but he's intimately involved in, like, Young Ball, so we went back to some roots. And so what I love about what I'm saying or pointing to here is he went back to Mother Nature, he went back to his relationships, and he revisited the love of ball through his grandson. And so when he got the opportunity to come back to the Raiders, he was like, oh, I'm really ready. Like, I feel rejuvenated. I'm reconnected, and I can't go wait to get reconnected to alpha competitors. Wow. Yeah.

I'm excited.

That's going to be really fun to watch.

Thank you for letting me host a segment.

Oh, man, thank you. Thank you for being part of this thing. You are a gift.

Yeah.

Thank you, Brandon.

So we're talking about the depth of a team.

Yeah. And so, you know, what's happening in a couple days here for the Super Bowl. Both teams are coming to an end.

Yeah.

And if we knew what you knew, if the listener and viewer knew what you knew about transitions, how would you want them to approach transitions in their life?

So, I mean, you just said a big word that can go over a lot of people's heads. Life is filled with transitions, and the way you approach transitions determines the quality of your life.

Big statement, too.

It's really important.

Yeah.

Transitions are everything, everything, everything, everything. So, you know, I. I think we have to start there. Right. So, you know, and then your question on transition, for me, it went out the window when you said that. I was like. I didn't even hear the question. I was just like, oh, you want to talk about transition? That's a whole podcast.

Yeah, Right. Yeah.

My approach to transitions.

Yep.

Man. I lean into them. I lean into transitions. To me, that's where growth is. It could be. It could be tough, it could be painful. But what I did in football, I prepared for my transition. Right. So we're talking about the Super Bowl. We're talking about athletes. In the peak of my career, I actually went to Harvard one off season, 2014. I spent my entire off season at Harvard building out a case study on transition.

No, I did not.

And so that's why I knew what I do. Right.

Yeah.

Like, all right, I found my purpose. Mental health. I want to bridge the gap in the mental health community. All right. How do I built this into a non profit. How do I built this into a for profit? What does it look like? Content and commerce came out of it. Right. So I, I didn't know how important transitions were there. But we said in football, like transitions hard for football players. Football players. I didn't know life was filled with 87 in football.

Do not, do not do transition.

Well, no, we're talking about divorce, we're talking about financial ruins, you know, all the stuff. Yeah, everything. Yeah, everything. So I thought, you know, I was going to have one transition, but life is filled with transition, so I prepared for that one and you know, so I was ready for that. And then after ball, there was other transitions. And so when you understand that life is about transitions now, you built boundaries and that walls, walls protect. What does walls look like around transition? Oh, I'm never going to transition. I'm. It's always going to be good, this relationship or my money, et cetera, et cetera. So when it hits you, it hits you like rocks boundaries. Right. Like you're prepared. You understand that life is filled with transition. You understand that life is about ebbs and flows. So when they come, the impact isn't as great. Right. So I think the best thing I can add to this conversation around transition and maybe you can add more to it to answer your own question. But for me it's, do we know how important transitions are? And if we do, right, like are you prepared for them?

That's great. And the way that I think, I hear you say that you prepare for them is lean into them. Know that it's hard to let go of the thing that you are comfortable with that is working well. But to be the person you want to be, you've got to do the transition well. That's right. And they are pretty tricky. So what I suggest for me, for my life, I'll just start there for a minute, is that I want to practice transitions. I don't want to wait until a quote, unquote, big trend. So I practice every night. A transition.

Oh, wow.

And every morning is a transition. So there's a routine, a process that I go through to do my reflection on the day and then a looking ahead, you know, for the morning, like, who do I want to be today and how do I feel about. I'm sorry, how can I use my imagination to feel the man I want to be? So there's those two. And then here's another kind of one that I don't talk about often is, is that when we say goodbye to Each other. I am going to honor that transition. And so there'll be an eye contact that I make now. You're going to know. You're going to be looking for it. Maybe.

It's weird. Yeah. I'm like, what are you about to say?

No. But it's just. No one else notices. But it's in me, a way to honor the relationship. When I say goodbye, I mean it because I don't know if we'll get to see each other again. And what that does, when I practice that every day, 12 times a day, saying goodbye to people, it helps me stay right here in the present moment with people. Because my ambition, my anxiety can get a hold of me and I just want to go, go, go, build. But it's the relationships that run this whole thing. And so these quiet little moments are these subtle little transitions throughout the day that I'm practicing.

I read his book a long time ago where they said in it there was this little quote and it said the most powerful place, place you can be at is in the present moment.

Yeah, for sure.

You're there.

That's where. That's where high performance happens. That's where everything takes place. Brandon Marshall, you are a legend for a reason. Thank you for this.

Are you about to land the plane?

Yeah, we're about to land the plane. No, we're not.

I got one more question for you.

Oh, good. Okay.

Who are you? How did you get into this? Like, how the hell did you get to becoming one of them? Like, best high performance coaches or in the world, whatever, however you want to define it.

Right here.

Listening to you on that last part. Like transitions. Yeah, that's mastery.

Yeah. Thank you, man. I'm just a.

No, don't give me the humble.

Don't give me that.

Don't give me that. Like, Like.

I'm a learner.

Like, when did you know this was your thing? Like, you talk about purpose. When did.

Actually, psychology comes easy to me, so I love the science of it. But I feel like I have a. You know how some people has. Have synesthesia when they hear. They hear sounds or smells, they see colors. Yeah, it feels. It's not like that exactly, but I just feel like I understand humans and this is like a laboratory that I love spending time with is helping people be their very best. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Yes. Now it's time for the Confidence Playbook presented by Mack Weldon. For this segment, we spoke with four time Olympic gold medalists and track legend Michael Johnson about His deep insights on confidence. Check it out. You just have a way that you hold yourself that feels real. Can you talk about. And this is just me watching from a distance on tv, trying to make sense of how are you doing this over and over again. Can you talk about confidence?

Yeah, I think, you know, confidence is. Is important. It's something you hear athletes talk about all of the time. You hear about it in the business field now as well. You know, people talking about the importance of confidence. But there's a lot of, you know, fake confidence, you know, and fake confidence will collapse on you in a moment of truth. You can walk around sort of thinking, oh, you know, I'm confident, you know, because I want to be confident. That's not where confidence comes from. You have to know where your confidence comes from. I knew that my confidence came from the fact that when I'm standing there behind the blocks before a 200 meter Olympic final, and I know that, okay, when this gun goes off 19 seconds from now, I'm gonna either be the Olympic champion or I'm not. I need to be confident and I need to know where that confidence comes from, because that's the moment of truth. If you, if you're confident just because you want to be, you want to be there and you want to win, it's just, it's a flimsy foundation. It's not something that you can go, okay, I'm ready. Because that's what's going to happen in that moment. You're going to be like, am I ready? I knew I was ready to deliver my best performance in that moment because I'm talented. I know I have the gift, right? But I know also that I've worked really hard. But I also know that I've mentally prepared myself to be able to come into this situation, into this competition, which is high pressure. I'm confident that I've mentally prepared myself to be able to come in here and deliver in the moment and deal with the pressure at the moment.

Mack Weldon is on a mission to help men feel more confident through their collection of high quality apparel that blend timeless style, modern comfort and substance over image. For 20% off your first order over $100. Shop now@macwelden.com and use the code finding mastery at checkout. All right, now it's time for our AI Insights brought to you by Microsoft Copilot. All right. Hey, co pilot. Based on the conversation with Brandon Marshall, create a concise playbook on navigating the end of a team. Focus on how individuals can process the transition, maximize their final moments together, and carry forward the lessons learned into their next chapter. If you'd like to get this playbook, we'll include it in our newsletter, so be sure to subscribe@findingmastery.com Newsletter or you can find it on our website at findingmastery.com TheGame thank you so much for tuning in the Game Inside the Games. We'll see you soon next week. We've got something really special for you at Finding Mastery. If you enjoy the game Inside the Games, you're going to love this. It's a roundtable conversation from a hangar at Kadena Air Force Base in Okinawa. And so you have a high performance psychologist, an MMA champion, an elite climber, and an Olympic skier. From fight night intensity to high altitude survival, their insights will reshape how you think about fear, setbacks and success. This is a conversation you are going to want to check out. Thank you for being part of this community. We love sharing these conversations with you, so we'll see you next week. All right, thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest, no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Hunch over to findingmastery.com newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously and the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals@findingmastery.com sponsors and remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional, so seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.