The Independent Revolution

We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to, or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With AllTrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on-trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with AllTrails.

At DSW, we ask the important questions, like, "What shoes are you going to wear?" Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes. At the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today and let us surprise you.

This week on the Andrew Yang Podcast.

I think it's exciting, Andrew. I'm really impressed by these folks because they're not professional politicians. Most of all, they're public servants and they want to continue to serve and they don't want to be in politics, which is exactly why we need them. I'm tired of all the people who want to be in politics and have been planning this their whole life. We need the folks who can come and serve and then go back to the farm or go back to their job and, and let our country move forward in a positive way. We think that people are looking for strong, experienced leadership, especially around national security, but people who put people over politics, you know, country over party.

It is my pleasure to welcome back to the podcast the host of Independent Americans, so you know we love him, uh, and the founder of Independent Veterans of America, Paul Rykoff. Welcome, Paul.

Great to be back with you, buddy. How How are you today?

I'm doing well. So you're in a swell mood, though who knows, by the time this thing actually airs, maybe this Knicks series will have turned another direction. Certainly the other series sort of went good, bad, good. Good, bad, very good.

It's like our democracy, man. You gotta kind of take the good days when you can get 'em in this environment, you know? So I'll take it for now.

Yes. And I should also have included in your intro national security analyst. You're on air all the time talking about those things, in part because you've walked the walk. Thank you for your service. Obviously you're a veteran yourself, but can you give people a sense of your background that gives you the bona fide so that all of the cable networks are calling Paul Reikoff and saying, "Paul, what do we make of the Strait of Hormuz?" Hmm.

Well, I hope they're calling me 'cause I call it like it is, which is unfortunately rare in this environment. I put you in that rare air as well. You're a guy who always calls it like it is, I don't come at it from a partisan or an overtly political standpoint. So I started out as an enlisted soldier way back in the late '90s and then became an infantry officer. Actually got activated for Ground Zero on 9/11 as my first, like, real activation. Then went to Iraq and did a tour as a platoon leader, came back, and then soon after started Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and really worked for the last 20-plus years in advocating for veterans. On national security and primarily veterans issues. So everything from passing the GI Bill to expanding mental healthcare, to ensuring that our women veterans are taken care of. So, you know, I got to be kind of a player coach. I was in the military and then I got to work on the Hill, you know, advocating and testifying and pushing forward legislation, calling out both sides when necessary, working with both sides when possible. And really also, I think as an advocate, trying to help people understand not just what's happening now, but what's happening next. Especially around issues like traumatic brain injury or burn pit exposure. And we really built a next-generation veterans organization that's now, you know, fueled my transition into Independent Veterans of America because what I saw, Andrew, and you know this, is that veterans are kind of the guts and the core of our country. And I've been working with veterans for so long and a lot of them wanted to run for political office, but they weren't Democrats or Republicans and there was no path. So that's really how I delved into this independent world with my podcast, on a parallel. So the podcast is kind of like the air game, and our work at IVA is like the ground game in our pursuit to defend and save our democracy.

Yes, amen. Well, so people now can see why I love and admire you so much. You're kind of a real-life Captain America, and at this point, Captain America isn't really on Team Blue or Red. They're on Team Red, White, and Blue. And so some of my favorite things about you are that you're a very prominent talking head and media pundit, but you're also trying to make the shit happen in real life, trying to build. I mean, you're co-hosting, actually you're assembling, I'm co-hosting, hahaha, at an event for political candidates who are military veterans and you're bringing them together in New York and trying to get them the resources they need to compete.

Yeah, man, and look, everybody's looking for fighters. Everybody's looking for people who can answer the call in this time of crisis and adversity and fear. And I think, you know, if I'm Captain America, I'm trying to assemble the Avengers. I'm trying to bring together you and people of all different political and geographic backgrounds and really recruit, support, field, and elect 100 independent veterans nationwide. That's our goal, right? We think that people, are looking for strong, experienced leadership, especially around national security, but people who put people over politics, you know, country over party. And as you know, you know, 45% of this country is independent or unaffiliated, 60% of young people, over half of veterans are independent and unaffiliated. And I think many more will be when they know that's an option, when they understand they can leave the parties behind, when they can run themselves. But they're up against the machine, they're up against the billionaires, they're up against the corporate PACs and the partisan, machinery. And they're, they're, you know, they're David versus Goliath, but they're scoring some wins. And we think this is going to be the biggest year yet. And it's also, you know, you're great, Andrew. A lot of reasons I love you, but you're a hopeful guy. You're an optimist. You're giving people a leader they can root for. And I think your energy has been really contagious. And that's what we think these men and women can bring as well, a hopeful, positive message that can spread and be contagious and give people the leaders they're looking for. We've got the fighters. We just need the fuel, and this is going to be a really exciting year to see how they can compete if the playing field— it's never going to be level, or at least it's not level yet, but we're getting closer to that, and these are really strong leaders who are ready to step up and continue to serve.

"If America is a religion, veterans are its clergy" is a quote that I think you shared with me that I now share with others, and you have that patriotism kind of infused into your soul, and you've been working on behalf of veterans now for years and years. And there are candidates, like you said, who have the same spirit and motivation and patriotism and energy. And we can talk about some of them because I think some— I mean, you and I are collaborating to boost some of them. So we had Seth Bodnar on the podcast. When this airs, it will have been like a few weeks, but not that long ago, you know, 3 or 4 episodes ago. And Seth Bodnar, holy crap. He also has that entire Captain America vibe where he jumped out of airplanes. He was a special forces commander, first in his class at West Point. That might have been the most impressive thing to me. I mean, you know, you imagine all of those ass kickers from small towns and big towns around the country who show up at West Point. To wind up at the top of that heap, I mean, that really says something. Yeah. So when someone like Seth decides to run, in his case, he's running for US Senate in Montana, it's endorsed by Jon Tester. His first month, he raised more money than the Republicans and Democrats combined. It's a state with a very, very enormous independent streak. But if there's a candidate like Seth Bodnar, who I've donated to and am supporting, and I'd urge anyone to check him out, You know, every Senate vote is equal. So you think, oh, why do I care about Montana? It's like, well, shoot. I mean, you know, you had one more Senate vote, you might not have Director of the FBI Kash Patel today or like whatever the heck, which I would have guessed you probably were jumping up and down when, you know, that confirmation hearing was on. So what I'm curious about is like, when does someone like Seth Bodnar hit your radar? Hmm.

So I think that that's a really good question. And I would say, you know, if we're building an Avengers team, like he's kind of like GI Joe. I mean, he looks like he's straight outta central casting, but he's also kind of out of central casting for America, right? Because, you know, he's the kind of leader we've been waiting for. And I think he's gonna be a proof of concept for how independents can not only run successful campaigns, but how they can win, right? And I think that that's been one of the many, I think, unfair knocks or, you know, really slanders against independents is that they can't win. Are they gonna be spoilers? And I think what we're seeing more often is it's the Democrats that are the spoilers or the Republicans that are the spoilers. And they both had their chance to try to save our democracy and they spoiled the shit out of all that. So I think it's time for the majority of us to get a shot. And Bodnar, you know, Bodnar's the kind of guy we've been hoping would step in. And I think what's really exciting, Andrew, this is our third year at IVA of fielding a cohort. Every year they're getting better and every year there are more of them. And the quality of candidate is really, really exceptional. So I met Seth, I think over the course of the last year when he was still the president of the University of Montana, you know, folks said, hey, there's this really exciting guy. And I gotta tell you, probably like you, I'm having a lot of conversations with people where I say to them, hey man, be great, or hey woman, you know, it'd be great if you could run and jump in here. We need you. And they usually say to me, yeah, but you know, I'm not a billionaire, I'm not a celebrity, I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican. Now we're showing them that there's a path. I think it's really important that Seth is showing that you can raise money independent of the parties and that you can poll independent of the parties and that you can win because you're right, if he does win, You know, go back in a time machine. If Dan Osborn won in Nebraska, the Navy pipefitter, there probably wouldn't be a Pete Hegseth. You know, there probably wouldn't be Kash Patel. There probably wouldn't be RFK Jr. because they're a voice of moderation as well and sanity, but especially on national security issues. Use Pete Hegseth as an example. There's somebody who will uphold those values. You're right. I took that line from my friend Dave Chastain, who's an Iraq vet. But if America is a religion, veterans are the clergy. They're the samurai. They're the keepers of the flame. They have to protect and defend our values. But they don't want to get in politics, one, because it's a dirty, nasty game, but also because they don't think they can keep their integrity. They have to compromise and they have to sell out. Now we're showing them that they don't. So I think Seth's race is one of, I think, 8 Senate races that we're watching and supporting and trying to amplify. Because if we get just one of them, you've got a total game change in the Senate. But if you get more than one, you've got a fulcrum, right? Think about the power of Kyrsten Sinema or Manchin in the past. But people who weren't just Democrats or Republicans and changed their uniform this week or this year, but folks who kind of came up through the farm team and were always independent. That's what we've got happening. So, you know, we're looking at thousands in the future. And it's not just Senate races, it's all the way down to school board, because I think most Americans are sick of school boards being partisan and being hijacked by parties as well. So it's at the top of the ticket, but it's all the way down to the most local level. And I think it's exciting, Andrew. I'm really impressed by these folks because they're not professional politicians. Most of all, they're public servants. And they want to continue to serve and they don't want to be in politics, which is exactly why we need them. I'm tired of all the people who want to be in politics and have been planning this their whole life. We need the folks who can come and serve and then go back to the farm or go back to their job and let our country move forward in a positive way. Wow.

Amen, brother. I mean, that's the vision. And if you had two U.S. senators, let's call it Seth Bodnar and Dan Osborn, who we'll come back to, and then you might have like an independent spirited soul like Lisa Murkowski, and then you have a fulcrum. Like that's the, you know, that's all you need.

I think it's really exciting too, Andrew, and your work has been part of this, but I think we are very close to people breaking ranks with the party. And I've called out individuals. I've asked Ro Khanna why he won't leave the Democratic Party with Tom Massie. Imagine if they both left and started something new or joined the Forward Party or just declared their independence from the parties. I've talked to, you know, about Jared Golden in Maine, the Democrat, or, Don Bacon, the Republican in Nebraska. We're very close to them breaking the seal. And I think once they show that you can break the seal and that the country will have your back, and that's what I tell them, you might raise more money, you'll have more support, it'll definitely be more diverse. But if someone like Ro Khanna and Tom Massie, you know, came together and broke free of the parties, I think they'd end up having more power. And I think that's the inflection point we're very close to because once a few of them do it, and show that it's viable, frankly, for their political career, and they won't just be sent out to pasture, then I think we're gonna see a true majority start to develop from the presidential level all the way down to the school board.

Let's see if this seems familiar to you. You are hungry and you're tired, and there's something healthy you should make for yourself, but you just don't have it in you, so you end up eating crap. Has that happened to you? It definitely happened to me until I found Factor. Factor is dietitian-prepared meals sent to your door that you can make in 2 minutes or less. And I am terrible in the kitchen, and I have absolutely no problem heating up my smoky barbecue chicken breast, which is my go-to meal. Also tangy southern chicken. As you can tell, I eat a lot of chicken. This is a game changer for me, and it's going to be a game changer for you too because you can just get healthy meals. You should check it out for sure. And if you head to factor meals.com/yang50off and use code yang50off, you'll get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscriptions only while supplies last until September 27th, 2026. See website for more details. Factor, it's It's going to change your life. Well, there is a California congressman, Kevin Kiley, who raised his hand and said, yo, I'm independent now. I'm out. You know, we wound up on the outs with Republican leadership. He's a very moderate guy. He represents kind of the Sacramento part of California. And he's got a good chance to win reelection in a new district and then be like, yo, you know, everything's fine. California actually, you know, has a slightly more welcoming system for that because it's what's called a jungle primary and then top two. And so if you're an independent who people like, like you can win So I agree with you. I mean, the parties are weakening. There are more and more heretics or people around the outs. And the question is, you know, can they thrive politically? And Kevin Kiley is going to be another test. You know, I should have him on the podcast upcoming. So we've got Seth Bodnar, who's on the pod. We've got Dan Osborne, who's been on the pod. But let's dig into Dan Osborne a little bit more. And certainly he was our He was one of our great hopes in the last cycle in '24. I did go to Nebraska to try and help him out and beat the drum for him. And he was very, very competitive, in part because the Dems of Nebraska wisely stepped aside.

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's going to be every, every, every race is going to be different. And I will tell you candidly, like I tell most people, I hope the Democrat stays in. Because then you're able to draw the contrast, right? Especially what happens oftentimes is you've got a far-right, you know, Trumpist Republican and you've got a far-left, now increasingly like Democratic socialist, AOC world. And most of the country wants something in the middle. And what often happens is if there's not a Democrat or not a Republican, you know, people will try to paint them as the Democrat or paint them as the Republican. You know, part of what hurt Dan was they called him Democrat Dan. And now the only thing more toxic than Trump's brand is the Democratic Party's brand. But I think people are seeing that you can leave the party. And I think, and I think this is really important, Andrew, because we talk about the morality of it. We talk about, you know, the integrity and the need for it, but it comes down to the market, right? And when people understand that they will do better politically and maybe even economically if they go with where this is going rather than where it has been, that's when I think the forces are starting to change. And I think the fundraising part is key. The fact that Dan Osborne and Seth Bodnar can raise money and be competitive. And we are, you know, you and I are working on creating that marketplace, you know, involving celebrities, trying to bring more organizations in, just getting the word out. Because I had Jesse Ventura on my podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he's always colorful, he's always amazing. But people have to remember, you know, he won as an independent for governor in Minnesota. And he said that back then, and he thinks it's still true now, you needed one of two things. You needed celebrity or you needed money, right? And I think, you know, we're getting bets that are kind of like celebrities, and we're increasing the money piece, and we're still maybe a breakthrough away from a Mark Cuban or a Matthew McConaughey or an Admiral McRaven. I think you did a lot to break the seal. You know, you used your star power and your influence and your ground game to bust open a hole. Now we need a couple more to follow through that. And, you know, if tomorrow The Rock decides he's running for president as an independent, the entire landscape changes. And when people dismiss that, I remind them of Jesse Ventura. I remind them of Ronald Reagan. I remind them of Zelensky, right? There are a lot of people who've come from pop culture and entertainment and made that move and broken through in a way that's very significant. That's why I challenged Stephen Colbert when I was on his show. I said, look, man, you're gonna have a lot more free time. How about you go back to South Carolina, run against Lindsey Graham, and do it as an independent? I mean, that's the kind of excitement that I think we need. And I also think it's possible, Andrew, and you know this, you have a lot of these conversations. I think we're very close to having flag-grade officers, astronauts, retired sports people make that jump and find out that it's a viable path to continue to serve.

Oh yeah. You know, the numbers I use for people are that Ross Perot got 19% in 1992 when 25% of Americans said they're independents. Now that percentage is 49%. And so if you do the math, you know, someone could get 38%, which, by the way, is about the win number in a national race. So that would be, to me, a massive opportunity. And it could come together as quickly as 2028. I talked to some of the figures you're describing You know, like I say, Mark Cuban's like, hey man, you'd be— make a great president. They're like different figures. And the void is bigger than ever, in large part because the parties are in disfavor in a way that I've never seen. One of the reasons why Seth Bodnar decided to run for Senate as an independent is that he got advice from Jon Tester, who then endorsed his campaign. But Jon Tester said the Democratic brand is poison in Montana. And if you look around the country, the Democratic Party's approval rating is 29%, disapprove maybe 50%. It's probably much worse in Montana. So if you put a Scarlet D next to your name, you might as well stay home, you know? And then the Democratic Party in a lot of these environments is just going to run a sacrificial lamb who just wants to be on the ballot and has no chance of winning. And, you know, to me, that, that's, that's the spoiler to your point. So we've got Seth Bodnar in Montana. We've got Dan Osborn in Nebraska. You mentioned other candidates and like, I'm genuinely asking you so I can get the download because you might be bringing some new people to my attention and our listeners' attention.

Yeah, I'd love to do that. And if I can just touch on Tester for a second, you know, he was the head of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee and we worked closely for many years. I love Senator Tester. He's probably my favorite elected official I've ever met. 'cause he's a very real guy, you know, lives on a farm. He's got the buzz cut. We always talk about basketball and family, and he's a very real person. But he came on my show pretty often, and at one point I said to him, "Look, man, you better run as an independent or you're gonna lose." And you know, at that point he had been a Democrat. He had come up in the establishment. You could see the winds going in that direction. But there is another alternative reality where he left the Democratic Party, ran as an independent, and maybe he's still in the Senate right now. And you know, We started out talking about basketball, and I wanna use that maybe as a primer because I listened to the Draymond Green podcast this morning, which I love, and I love Draymond, and he's talking about Steve Kerr. And Steve Kerr is always, in my view, you know, a diplomat, an ambassador, a very powerful leader. He's a winner. He's respected. Imagine if Steve Kerr decided to run for governor of California in this primary right now where there's a universally unpopular group of people. None of them are really breaking through. If Steve Kerr was on that ballot, I think he'd destroy everybody. And I think those are the kinds of candidates we have to be not just talking about, but recruiting to enter this race because that's the next wave that I see in '28 and beyond. And to answer your question, you know, I'm excited about a lot of them, Andrew. I met yesterday, had her on my podcast, General Sarah Zabel, who's running in Idaho in 1st District. She's a retired Air Force general. She's a cybersecurity expert. She's a mental health advocate. She's a first-time candidate, and I think she's very exciting. Idaho is another place that's very exciting. There's also a Senate candidate there, Todd Achilles, who's an Army veteran who's polling neck and neck with the Republican incumbent, Risch, who is, I think, the fourth oldest and one of the richest members of the Senate. So there's a real contrast, right? An independent guy who was an Army vet up against, you know, another rich guy who's 83 years old, who's out of touch, who voted against the PACT Act for veterans' care, He's voted, he has voted against restraining the president on Iran or, you know, never-ending foreign wars. So I think these contrasts are really exciting. Down in Mississippi, there's a guy named Ty Pickens who's another vet who's running for Senate in Mississippi. He's got a long-shot race there, but it's important to show that, you know, independents are running everywhere. In deep red Mississippi, you know, he's a great example of where an independent will undoubtedly do better than a Democrat. And for folks who wanna check the extremes, especially on the right. I think that the counter to Trump in the red states and in the blue states and the purple states is not the Democrats, it's the independents. It's anything other than Trump. And there's no real moderate Republicans. So they're filling the spot. And Ty Pickens, very exciting candidate. And he talked about how, you know, he used to enter rooms and say, I'm a Democrat, and people would just shut him down right away. Now he says, you know, I'm an independent. All right, I'm listening. People are listening and they're signing their petitions. Now, they still have huge barriers to entry, as you know. It's harder for them to get on the ballot. They've gotta get thousands more signatures. They don't have the fundraising apparatus. They don't have the access to media. I think too often the media dismisses them, but it's changing and we're bringing them together, you know, to go back where we started, kind of like a group of Avengers that's getting stronger and deeper every single round.

Yeah, I think Steve Kerr would win. And, you know, I wanna explore this for a second. So Steve Kerr, is a leader, charismatic, used to motivating professional athletes in a context where, you know, they might not naturally be super motivated. He's worth tens of millions of dollars, which is frankly very helpful in this. He calls some of the most famous people in the country as his friends and colleagues. You know, he could like be walking around and He probably has Obama's number. He probably has like all these people's number. And he would give Californians a sense of ease where there's like, oh yeah, this guy, yeah, everything will be all right if, you know, you have Governor Kerr.

Excitement too, right, Andrew? I mean, like people need to get excited and folks, I think part of why I mentioned Steve Kerr is he's spoken out on issues. He's talked about gun violence.

He's got a point of view.

His father was killed when he was a diplomat when he was, I think, 9 years old. By an extremist group. I mean, Steve Kerr is not afraid to take a stand. And I think that's why, you know, it could be an easy transition to imagine Steve Kerr at a press conference at the NBA Finals and Steve Kerr at the governor's mansion. I mean, you can see that. And I think it's important for us to show what it will look like because that transition can happen. It's happened before in American history. Look at Tommy Tuberville. Tommy Tuberville did it for the Republicans, and now he's an Alabama senator. He might be the governor of Alabama. But the left hasn't done it as much. And the independents, that could be a really important pathway for us. And I think it's actually just more attractive to most people. They don't wanna pick a side. They wanna stand with their community or their state. And the action that I'm really excited about is the governor's races and also the mayor's races, Andrew. I mean, you know, I think, I'm sure you know, maybe your listeners don't know, there's an independent mayor of Colorado Springs, Yemi Mogulade.

Yeah, Yemi Mogulade. Love Yemi.

Awesome, exciting guy, unifier.

And then— 81st biggest city in the country. Yeah.

And then Tim Ryan down in, Chattanooga, Tennessee, right? Mayor Ryan's down there. It's a redder state, different profile, different kind of approach, but they're get shit done guys. They're talking about infrastructure, they're talking about education, they're talking about bringing people together. And I think they've both gotten reelection now, so they're established and trusted by their communities. And those are two guys that I think are rising stars in our independent movement.

Yeah, I just want to briefly get your sense of the actual gubernatorial candidates because I think their primary is in June. I've endorsed Matt Mahan, who's the common sense mayor of San Jose. You know, I'm thrilled that Swalwell ended up getting outed as a perv and predator. I mean, like, I didn't know any of that stuff, but I've written about how I was on the trail with him in 2020, and I didn't think that guy should be governor of an important state. I mean, he's just a dude. Like, you know, I mean, the term I used for him was lightweight. And one of the things that really stuck with me was that he based his entire campaign around asking Joe Biden to pass the torch in 2020. And then when it really came time for Joe Biden to pass the torch in 2024, Swalwell, not a peep like that. That dude had just gotten the talking points and then, like, lost his spine. And the darkest part is he got rewarded for it. You know, he became the frontrunner for the freaking California governor's race. And doubling down on what you were saying about Steve Kerr, I remember when we were young, this happened in California with a guy named Arnold Schwarzenegger. And there was a minute with Arnold Schwarzenegger, who, by the way, is very, very much spiritually aligned with this movement. I spoke at the Schwarzenegger Center at USC, met with Arnold, wrote about in my book, Hey Yang, Where's My $1,000? Just because you and I are contemporaries. So getting to meet the Terminator slash Conan was like, you know, like a thrill.

Nice.

On that level. But I remember when he ran for governor and I— it took me a minute because I was young and stupid. But it took me a minute to be like, well, like, how does his appeal work? And then I read a report on the election. I think he hadn't won yet, but then, like, people, they just listed the advantages. It's like, you know, everywhere he goes, like, traffic stops. He's rich. He counts like some of the most wealthy and famous people in the country has, his buddies, like, there are like a bunch of advantages. And I was like, oh, that's why that guy ends up being a front-runner and then winning. It's like you don't realize that celebrity of particular forms is actually a huge advantage, particularly at a time when the, you know, it's like you need to try and draw attention and generate oxygen because local media is disintegrated. You know, all you're left with is social media and, you know, a few cable outlets most of the time.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I go back to what's our core mission. Our core mission is save our democracy, save America, right? Transform, you know, the way this works. And that's gotta be a ground game. That's things like open primaries and campaign finance reform and removing the barriers to ballot access. But it's also gotta be the air game and that's leadership. Right? We need leadership that can define what this movement looks like for the next generation. You know, we have these reference points of Ross Perot or Jesse Ventura, but I'll give you another example in addition to Colbert, which I think is a fun one to work through, right? Just imagine the excitement a candidate Colbert could bring. We talked about Alabama. What if Charles Barkley ran in Alabama? What if Charles Barkley ran home?

He'd do great anywhere.

And ran against Tommy Tuberville, right? Because the brand, having an established brand, that is also trusted, that is real, and that is defined, and that is exciting, I think is really, really important. So, you know, my priority in this movement as we seek to save our country is we need billionaires because we don't have a Koch brothers and we don't have a George Soros. So we need billionaires to get off the sideline and fund this movement and the infrastructure that's required from the ground all the way up to the candidates. And then we need more leaders. And if you're listening, and you're a veteran and you wanna run for office, go to Independent Veterans of America or hook up with Andrew and we can help you get there because we need you on the playing field. But we also gotta be shooting for the fences. Another example of a guy I had on was Mick Foley, the great WWE wrestler.

Oh wow, I love Mick.

Mick, everybody, right? That's the reaction you want from a kid. I love Mick, right? Mick is maybe the toughest human being I've ever seen, right? For folks that don't know, he was Mankind or Dude Love in the WWE. But he also took a stand and he left the WWE because of their support for Trump and because they have Trump in the Hall of Fame. And, you know, he takes stands on issues he cares— he cares about kids. He's spoken out about ICE. And, you know, we shouldn't dismiss them because why is he less of a serious candidate than Eric Swalwell or anybody else that's on that list of people for California governor? I think we have to realize, I think, and push forward the idea that we need America's best right now. Right? California. California's most amazing, one of the most amazing places in the world. I always say California is like one of my favorite countries in the world, right? And that's the best we can do for candidates here in New York? You know, Kathy Hochul, I think, is a very weak governor. And the fact that she's really got no opposition, there's no strong independent candidate here, even what we saw in the mayor's race. You know, I think we can do better to bring higher quality leadership into this game. But part of that is leveling the playing field. Part of that is, is making it a movement and identifying that movement. But part of it is just encouraging people to step up. And when they do, like Dan Osborne, like Seth Bardner, we gotta have their back. We really gotta have their back and show that this is really a movement and not just one person.

Thank you, listeners. Please make sure to like and subscribe. And if you have any questions, send them to mailbag@andreyang.com and We'll do our best to answer them. Thank you. Hello, listeners. You like money? I like money. Let's help everyone save some money. So I started Noble Mobile, the first cell phone plan that pays you to use it less. A data dividend. That's right. It's for real. Go to noblemobile.com/yang and find out how you can get bonus cash just for signing up. Get months for free, the whole shebang. Awesome. Go to noblemobile.com/yang to find out more. This podcast is sponsored by Helix Sleep. I've always been a mattress guy since my 20s. I always thought if you're going to do something for 8 hours a day, you should try and do it right. It's why I've been so happy with my Ultra Dawn Firm mattress from Helix. I took the sleep quiz. I said I need a lot of support. And the strange thing is, not only has it been a game changer for me, but it's my family's favorite mattress in the house, even though I'm the one who took the sleep quiz, not them. Don't take my word for it. Helix is the awarded mattress from Forbes, Wired, and they give you a risk-free experience where you can hang out with your mattress for up to 120 nights. I know, that's nuts. And then return it. What? It's a limited lifetime warranty. They'll ship it right to your door. Go to helixsleep.com/yang for Memorial Day sale, 27% off site-wide, exclusive for listeners of the Andrew Yang Podcast. That's helixsleep.com/yang for 27% off site-wide. Wide exclusive for listeners of the Andrew Yang podcast. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Helixsleep.com/yang. Uh, you know, one thing you would have really enjoyed, Paul, uh, is that, uh, I've been visiting and speaking at various Forward Party conventions and in different parts of the country. So I went to the Utah— there's like the United Utah Party, and there you had United Utah merged with Forward Utah, and then it became, you know, one party. And it was a freaking crowd of hundreds. They have a sitting state senator there, you know, like it's the same spirit you're talking about. Super patriotic, not all of them military veterans, obviously, but like they're driven by the same thing. I went to the state formation event in New Mexico where they were on the Capitol steps, and then we had this event in Albuquerque that also drew like a ton of people. And I was like, wow, like that, there's like a lot of energy. And again, and there was actually a military veteran who was there who had run for office, who you would have loved. She was great. So like that, like what you're doing with Independent Veterans America, what we're doing with Forward, I mean, it's really of the same cloth and totally agree with you that we need our best people out in the field and we need to get behind them because I know a lot of people and you do too that look at politics today and are like, oh man, like, you know, I don't know if that's— I don't know if that's going to be great for my family's like, you know, mental health or well-being, you know.

You know better than anybody, man. But I think you're touching on something else too, which is there are some states that are more ripe for this than others, right? Montana is ripe for this to happen right now. Nebraska, Idaho, these are— South Dakota, Brian Bangs is running out there, another impressive candidate, is doing it with nothing. These guys are just grinding it out, right? Like trying to push forward. And then there are places like New Mexico where they just passed open primaries, and Utah You have Evan McMullin, right? And you've got a more independent streak. You've got Maine. I've had Senator Angus King on my show before. I think the only true independent in the Senate right now. You know, he's shown that Maine is a place that will elect independents, that will support independents. Alaska, another great example. Right. And then there's places like Texas that I think, you know, I think you can have another example. We'll see what happens with Tellerico. Right. I think he's going to determine whether or not somebody could overcome the Democratic brand. In a red state traditionally, but that's another place that's just so ripe for somebody who's Texas first, right? If somebody rolls, I use McConaughey as an example, right? If Matthew McConaughey ran for governor right now, he'd blow everybody away. And I think Mark Cuban for president is interesting. I think Mark Cuban for Senate or governor is very exciting, right? And that is where I think these states are really exciting when you don't look at them as one blank slate, but the conditions are different, especially where you've got open primaries, where you have a more independent streak. That's where I think we could see some surprise wins. Wins this fall?

America's gonna be all right, all right, all right. You know, I mean, that's pretty good. Or Texas is going to be all right, all right, all right. Or Mick Foley would be, have a nice day, right? I mean, these things write themselves.

I'm telling you, man. And you know what else too? I mean, you know this as well as anybody. These guys and gals are multi-sport athletes, and they can play on this playing field. You know, my friend Wes Moore is a Democrat. We've been friends a long time. I think he's a superstar. You know, he's gonna be a presidential candidate or at least someone who they want to run for president. I think he's very exciting, but there are independent Wes Moores out there too. But Wes is great because he's a multi-sport athlete. He can do the debates, he can do, you know, the hard legislative pieces, he can bring people together and he can catch balls from Lamar Jackson and do all the stuff that especially the Trump and MAGA group has done, like a better version of what Hegseth and Kash Patel are, right? We don't need somebody like Kash Patel chugging beers and then going back and dealing with the Savannah Guthrie case, right? We need somebody like Wes Moore who is catching balls from Lamar Jackson and then trying to deal with poverty for kids. And you're a great example of that too, Andrew. You've been uptown, downtown, and everywhere in between. But I think those are the kinds of candidates especially that we need to be looking for— people who can play in all those different playing fields and all those different media, uh, um, platforms as well.

Wes Moore is a great guy, uh, and he's one of the success stories in terms of, you know, being able to make it happen within one party or another. You know, one concern I have, Paul, and, you know, you can see this writing on the wall, unfortunately, is that the Democrats, very unpopular, have failed us epically by not having a primary in 2024. My guy, Dean Phillips, you know, like made that case and paid the price. But the Dems are poised to do great in November because everyone hates this administration because they're really bad at governing. And they're— and so the Dems will be like, we're back, we're back, baby. Meanwhile, a lot of people would have just held their nose and been like, I guess this is what we're doing because I really can't stand the crew in charge. And that's this disease of this two-party system where Bill Maher said, like the— well, actually, he didn't say this. Bill Maher said there's only one idea that Americans can consistently hold in their heads. And it's throw the bums out. Uh, the, the thing that you and I might say is that the two parties will play you lose, I lose, you lose, I lose, uh, while we're all doing the losing, you know. And that's happening. And so I think the Democrats will have a massive wind at their backs this November because everyone is down on this administration and, you know, the war and gas prices and all the rest of it. And the Democrats will be crowing about how it turns out that people actually love them the whole time. And I'm, you know, in some ways, I mean, like, I don't like this administration, so I'd be perfectly happy to see the Dems do well. But that is one piece of it that, like, will irritate the heck out of me because I'm like, guys, you didn't do shit. Like, you know, and they also just refused to even do a postmortem about 2024. Because they were just like, you know, the quote from Ken Martin was like, we're winning now. Like, why look back? We're winning now. It's like, you know, we can foul it up to the nth degree, but it doesn't matter. Like, you're stuck with us. And what you and I are trying to do is be like, we're actually not stuck with you. Like, we'd like something that's actually of the people and of us and independent of you all, because you're not going to solve our problems either. Like, things are going to continue to deteriorate with you guys in charge. But that is one aspect of November that I, am very much anticipating.

I think it's a really important point though, Andrew, because first of all, throw the bums out applies because everybody wants to throw all the bums out, right? And I think Bill Maher has got his finger on that in the right way. Interestingly, uh, with, with regard to Westmore and, and, uh, Bill Maher, Westmore was on Bill Maher a few weeks ago and for the first time supported open primaries. And I will tell you that I've been working on him for years telling him he can lead the way here. Maryland's a great place. If he wants to run for president, he's gonna need independents. And the best way to support independents is to give them an equal right to vote. And so I'm hopeful that he will follow through on that. That was a very significant moment as a presidential candidate, as a Democrat, uh, to basically run against his own party's position and say that primaries should be open to all voters in Maryland was very, very significant. And I think what we could see there, Andrew, is if, if Moore goes through on it, which I'm gonna push him and text him and call him to get him there, If he does go through with that, we could see an arms race within the Democratic Party like we saw in gerrymandering, but good for democracy in that they will understand if you want to be elected as a Democrat for president, you need independents. And if you oppose them voting, you're not going to get independents. So if Wes Moore passes it in Maryland, then we need Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer and Pritzker and all the others like they have on gerrymandering to run and follow up, which is ultimately better for their political chances, but also better for our democracy where we are truly on an equal playing field. So I think we're breaking— we're close to breaking breaking through on that. I'm anxious to see who's going to be the partisan who has both the political smarts but also the courage to run against their own party, because I never underestimate the Democrats' ability to fail. I think that they are overestimating their, their capacity and their win. Um, I think that they are still really toxic, and I also don't assume there will be free and fair elections. And another example of their failure is they're not focusing on present— protecting free and fair elections in the fall. And I don't assume that he won't invoke the Insurrection Act, that he won't put troops in the streets, that he won't use ICE in the elections. And what I haven't heard from the Democrats, and of course not from the Republicans, is what's their plan if he does? What, how are they gonna ensure there are free and fair elections so they can even have a fighting chance? And then once they do, you know, no doubt they're gonna be increasingly unpopular about 30 days afterward. And then we're still in a very good position because most of the country is trending in our direction. Maybe when I was growing up or you were growing up, late '80s, early '90s, all there was was Coke and Pepsi. People couldn't envision anything else. Now we've got Vitaminwater and we've got cold brew and we've got all these other options. That's what the next generation is used to and expects and is demanding. And so the market's starting to come back to them. But as usual, politics is behind where the people are. But the folks who get where the people are and understand that most people want none of the above, I think they're gonna do well at the polls and they're gonna do well for our democracy. That's where George Washington is our spirit animal, right? He was the last independent president we had, and that's what we need again, is to remind everybody the parties are rigged. It's a corrupt system. It's designed against democracy, and we need to truly take our democracy back. And that doesn't mean just taking it back from Trump. It means taking it back from the Democrats too.

You don't brag about your car's resale value until years later when it proves you made the right call. And Toyota makes that choice easy. For the 6th year in a row, Toyota was named the Best Resale Value Brand by Kelley Blue Book, with Camry, Tacoma, and 4Runner all earning Best in Class. Because when you buy a vehicle that's built to last, you drive away with value you can count on. Shop toyota.com to learn more. Vehicles' projected resale value and Best Resale Value awards are specific to the 2026 model year. For more information, visit kellybluebooks.com. Toyota, let's go places.

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the Name Your Price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

Their failure to have a primary in, uh, 2024, just unconscionable. And you know, when you look at what could have prevented this entire fiasco, that was it. They just failed.

Yeah, and now they're talking about it again, right? They're talking about Kamala Harris again. It's like, we've been here before. Like, how many times are we gonna give you the ball and watch you fumble it? So the Democrats have failed you. And what I tell people is the Democrats are not gonna save you. They haven't stopped Trump on the Iran war. They haven't stopped ICE. They haven't stopped all the crazy shit he wants to do culturally. They didn't stop a single nominee. I mean, he went through with the Hail Mary on Hegseth, and then he just busted open the hole and they all ran through behind him. Created. So, you know, I think we have to try something different at a minimum, but understand that the Democrats are not built to save you. And especially Schumer has failed and he's still in a job, and Hakeem Jeffries has failed and he's still in a job. It's like if the Jets had Mark Sanchez at quarterback for the last decade. I mean, at some point even the Jets change their quarterback, but the Democrats don't.

Yeah, they don't want to take any accountability for their failures. They've got like a culture of nothing to see here. It's really not great.

Yeah.

And I think it's one reason why their brand is so toxic and underwater among a lot of people around the country, because a lot of people get it. Paul, uh, thank you for leading the way, uh, on so many fronts. If someone wants to keep up with you, support you, support your work, you've got a podcast that's now blowing up. You're all over the airwaves, but how can people best keep up with you and support what you're doing?

Well, thanks for asking, man. Independent Americans is the podcast. You can find it on YouTube, uh, on Apple Podcasts, everywhere. I was ahead of Ben Shapiro for one day last week, which I think is a really good sign that people want an alternative, not just to Ben Shapiro but also to Midas and Pod Save America. I mean, we are the majority, and I think most Americans are independent. And I'm also trying to bring light to contrast the heat and focus on national security and veterans issues and foreign policy and bring in voices like yours that can add some positivity and hope. I think people are responding to that. So the podcast is a part of it. And then Independent Veterans of America, we are recruiting. If you're an independent veteran that wants to run for office, if you're someone who wants to support independent veterans who are, it's independentveteransofamerica.org. Uh, you know, we want to be the tip of the spear for this independent movement. And I got to thank you, Andrew, because You've been a great partner. I think you're such a key pillar in what is truly a movement of so many other organizations like Veterans for All Voters and Open Primaries and so many others. We're coming together kind of like Voltron, right? And we're ready to meet this moment. And I always want to thank you for your courage, for your example. You were on my podcast recently, but I wanted to especially shout out your example as a person who is respectful and thoughtful and creative and real. You're a great role model for our kids, man, and you always do it in the right way. I wish you were our mayor right now. Maybe you could still jump in and run for governor, but props on Noble Mobile too, which we're excited to see and support and all the good stuff you're doing, man.

Well, thank you, Paul. Right back at you. You know, if we are casting the Avengers, you're Captain America. That might make me, geez, I don't know, like Hawkeye, Tony Stark? You know, maybe you'd be Thor.

Maybe I'll be Professor Xavier. I don't know. I've already got the haircut, right? And I think I want to be a little bit more behind the scenes than Captain America. But the good point is, you know, we're fighting the forces of ignorance and stupidity and we're greatly outnumbered and we're recruiting. So we need many more Avengers.

These Avengers are recruiting for lots of new members. Paul Rykoff, Independent Americans. Congratulations, my friend. I will see you in person, in real life at this event for some of the candidates you described and much more to come.

Look forward to it, man. Thanks for all you do and for all your leadership. Appreciate you.

You too, Paul. And thank you for your service, which has never stopped.

And yours. Yours. Many ways to serve and you continue to serve. So I appreciate you too, man.

Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion-dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com.