The Outsider Outrunning Every Candidate in Montana

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This week on the Andrew Yang podcast.

Look, we've heard promises from lots of people, and then we see people who go to Washington, D.C., and they vote what their party leader tells them. We need somebody who's going to vote what we tell them. You know, I was with a bunch of union, union leaders on Saturday. I was with a bunch of veterans on Saturday. I'm going around this state. And my message to them is, look, I'm, I'm interviewing for a job where you're going to be my boss, and I want you to know that every single day that I work for you. And I think our politicians have— many of them have forgotten that they work for the voters.

It is my pleasure to welcome to the podcast one of the most interesting political figures in the country, in my opinion. He is running U.S. Senate in Montana as an independent, the former president of the University of Montana and Special Forces veteran Seth Bodnar. Welcome, Seth.

Thanks, Andrew. It's great to be here. Really appreciate the opportunity to join you today.

No problem. Um, so you've got a bio that I gotta admit just reads like a Hollywood script.

It's crazy.

So, uh, grew up in Pennsylvania.

I think you went to West Point and finished first in your class.

Is that possible?

I did. Yes, I was. I got a little lucky for sure.

I mean, so that's nuts. And you then went and served in Iraq as a special forces commander. You were still a member of the National Guard to this day in Montana, I think, or—

Yeah, I'm actually in the reserve now.

Yeah, but in the reserve, somewhere in there, you also somehow became a Rhodes Scholar. I don't know how that order of operations even works. And then, um, you married someone, she's like a longtime Montanan, and you became president of the University of Montana and were in that role for, um, gosh, it seems like a number of years, maybe was it like 7 or 8 years?

Yeah, about 8 years.

Yep.

Yeah. Took it from shrinking to growing.

And then you made the very dramatic recent decision, which is what we're going to talk about now, to run for US Senate. Can you tell us about what led you to make that campaign happen?

Yeah, well, thank you, Andrew. I mean, it boils down to like you, I feel like this country's headed in the wrong direction. You know, we're on a path to hand over a country to our kids that is less secure, less prosperous, more divided, more in debt, in which they have fewer rights than we had. You know, going back a little bit further in my background, you know, I'm the son of two public school teachers. You know, they taught me from a very early age that we have an important role to serve the community around us. As you mentioned, I joined the military at the age of 18, served 10 years on active duty, then worked in the business world. I worked at GE in the rail division selling locomotives and, and software for the rail industry. And then, and then 8 years ago, came back to lead the University of Montana. You know, I'm married to an incredible woman, a pediatrician who has dedicated her life to expanding access to healthcare, and particularly in rural and tribal areas. And, and she and I are really blessed to be raising 3 kids in this great state. We have 15-year-old twins and a 12-year-old. And, and those 3 kiddos are the reason why this was both hard, but also the reason why I felt compelled to jump into this. They deserve better. Than the political leadership that we're getting right now in this country.

Come on, Seth.

You really think that?

I'm just kidding. So, wow. I've got a 13-year-old and a 10-year-old. So, you know, not that far apart. His are a little bit older than mine. One plus about running for Senate in Montana is it's a big state. So you're crisscrossing it, but you're probably home for dinner like a significant proportion of the time, you know, or at least No, I wish I were.

I, you know, Montana is a big state. You know, we like to say about Montana, it's a, it's a, it's a small town with a really long Main Street called I-90, which cuts across Montana. It's only a little over a million people, but a massive, massive state. And, and so we're out getting, trying to get to every nook and cranny of this state, spreading the message that You know, we need a new approach. You know, Montanans, Montanans are an independent people, you know, and, and they deserve an independent voice that says, you know what, I don't answer to party insiders in Washington, D.C. I have one boss and one boss only, the people of this great state. And people are excited. We're, we're getting a great response to the launch of this campaign and, and we're building a lot of great momentum.

All right.

So check it out.

So here's what some people are thinking, watching this or listening to this.

They're like, oh, hey, Seth, wow, so accomplished. Seems like a great guy, but independent candidate for Senate, can that work? So some of the data points that are quite fun, you just put up a whopping, I wanna say it was almost $1.4 million in fundraising in your first report. And that was higher than anyone else in the field, including your Republican opponent, who, by the way, also is like the result of sort of a last-minute switcheroo on the part of the incumbent Republican senator. So we can go into that. So, but you put up $1.4 million, and I think the Democrat might have raised $50,000 or $60,000, which speaks to how unpopular Democrats are, you know, largely in not just Montana, but in the majority of states around the country at this point.

How the—

I mean, I chipped into the $1.4 million, though, you know, like, I'm grateful for that.

Thank you.

But, but you really took the race by storm very, very quickly.

Yeah. Look, we built good momentum. You know, you mentioned that we raised just about $1.4 million. That was more than everyone else, Democrat or Republican. There's also a Libertarian in the race, but more than all other candidates combined and about 50% more than our Republican opponent. And, and interesting to note, the majority of his funding is actually coming from PACs, leadership PACs of other electeds, the party, whereas the vast majority of ours coming from individuals. And what that tells me is that people are hungry for a new approach. You know, Montana, you know, based on how you read the data, around 40% of Montanans identify as independent. And I'd argue it's even more from what I'm hearing from folks. They're frustrated by a political system that seems to incentivize our so-called leaders to focus on dividing us, distracting us, just to win that next election. Meanwhile, we're losing the next generation. And I'm hearing it again and again out around this state that we just want somebody that's going to go fight for us in Washington, D.C., rather than spend their time fighting the other party.

Yeah, I'm sure in Montana people are independent through and through. The truth is, if you go out to everyday Americans, a lot of people are not really party loyalists. You know, they might, they might like lean one way or another. The fact that you're a military veteran and a badass, I'm sure goes a very long way. Like, you know, you don't feel like one of the politicians that they would readily dismiss. You know, I enjoyed some of your social media videos where you're working out while talking and whatnot. You clearly have a very high fitness level. I mean, I'm like that, that stuff.

Trying. No, man, I'm getting old. You know, it's— you get broken down a little bit. You jump out of enough airplanes carrying 100 pounds and Lugging it, uh, you, uh, your body, it takes a toll on you, but I'm still trying, man.

Yeah, you did a number of tours, uh, like in Iraq.

You commanded an airborne division. I mean, it's really, um, again, the, the stuff of legend. So you were also endorsed by a guy named Jon Tester, who I, I thought was a, an incredibly powerful signal, uh, or, um, so people who don't know who Jon Tester is he was the senator from Montana as a Democrat for a long time. And he was one of these old-school senators where he wasn't, you know, didn't read as a conventional Democrat, I would say.

Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, guy focused on common sense, right? A good leader. And what we're doing is we're building a broad coalition of, of, of obviously of independents, of Republicans, of Democrats. You know, we've had this support from across the political spectrum. Another leader here in Montana is Mark Roscoe. Governor Mark Roscoe, very popular two-term governor here in the state, actually chaired the RNC, the Republican National Committee, and has also been very supportive publicly of this campaign. And, you know, I've talked to elected Democrats around the state, elected Republicans around the state. And there's broad bipartisan support, again, for something new. And it's not just the anger at the parties, but it's, I think, anger and justified anger at a failed model of leadership in this country. You know, something I've been talking about is just this sense among our leaders that political leadership is a privilege. Not service. You know, I've been talking just about this past month, and you watch a government shutdown, you know, DHS shutdown, you know, frontline workers, federal workers, whether that's in the Coast Guard, FEMA, Cyber Infrastructure Security Agency, in a time of war, these people working without pay. Yeah, because Congress can't figure it out. And then Congress goes on vacation. You know, in what world do leaders allow their people to not get paid while they go on vacation, still collecting a paycheck, by the way. It's unacceptable. And the fact that we've come to accept that as normal is all the indication you need to tell you we need a different approach to politics in this country.

Imagine you trying that with your Special Forces battalion. Be like, "Hey guys, I'm going on vacation and you guys don't get paid. I'll see you after the mission." Yeah. I mean, you know, it'd be nuts.

Yeah, they tell you first day, first day at West Point, you know, you have it drilled into your head that a leader eats last. You know, they say that a platoon leader, when it's mealtime, a good platoon leader, good commander, makes sure that every one of his or her soldiers gets fed before they eat. And if there's not enough food, guess who doesn't eat? The lieutenant. Leaders eat last. And we have this sense among many of our political leaders, not all, but many of our political leaders that, that they eat first, that they're— that they can just spend time dividing us, distracting us while they enrich themselves with insider information, while they collect the paycheck, government shutdown after government shutdown, while hardworking Americans of all political parties continue to suffer, continue to see rising costs, continue to see lower opportunities. And, and again, we need something different. And, and again, the start of this campaign, the momentum we've built is has shown that there's a lot of people that agree with that.

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One other common sense thing is that people can imagine a compelling, well-resourced independent actually having a chance to win the Senate race in Montana in a way that the Democrat never could, especially a Democrat who raised, you know, less than 5% of what you raised. Period. So if someone's sensible and according to my math, one Senate vote from Montana is equal to one Senate vote from any other state.

Yes, it is. You know, and, and, and one Senate vote makes a huge difference on a lot of issues. You know, one of the things that's important to us here in Montana, it's public lands, maintaining access to our public lands. You know, one of the things Montanans agree upon, whether that's hunters like myself, I'm a hunter. You know, people who care deeply about conservation of the environment. We, we believe here in Montana that we have an obligation of stewardship to be good stewards of the natural treasures and the beauty of this state, to care for that for future generations and to maintain access for everybody. You know, whether you're a millionaire, whether you make minimum wage, public lands are our common ground. And we just saw an action in the U.S. Senate last week where we, we saw our U.S. Senate approve a Chilean mine operator to— for a mine upstream of the Boundary Waters in Minnesota, one of our nation's most cherished national treasures. And this was accomplished through basically an end-around process. One vote, one vote in the U.S. Senate could have stopped that. And, and we care about that in Montana because it sets a dangerous precedent. For the potential for people to sell off our public lands. And I bring that up as just one example of an issue where one vote in the US Senate could have made a difference.

I'm going to throw another one in there for fun. Confirmation of, let's say, Kash Patel or one of these other figures. I mean, that could have been down to one vote. And so it's pivotal. I'm sure you get asked this all the time. But after you win, quote unquote, who would you caucus with in the Senate? Because everyone thinks that you need a club to join.

Yeah, look, I've said publicly I'm not planning to caucus with either party.

I—

and that's part of the problem is we elect leaders, we send them to the U.S. Senate, and then when they get there, they put on a jersey, right? A red one with an R, a blue one with a D. And then that becomes the team that they fight for, right? They fight to beat the other team. They fight to, to advance the interests of their team. Meanwhile, the voters that sent them there get left behind.

Yeah.

I'm gonna go to the US Senate if I'm fortunate enough to get there with a jersey that, that says M on it for Montana. And I'm gonna fight every single day for the people of this great state. And I'm gonna work with other like-minded, independent-minded senators to form a new bloc that's focused on working on bipartisan solutions that serve the vast majority of Americans that are in what I call the sensible center.

Well, certainly a lot of folks around me would love to see that kind of fulcrum in the Senate. And you do have some friends waiting for you there. You know, like they're— they actually need a friend like you to show up so that they can become this key bloc without which neither party could necessarily cram something down the throats of the other side of the country. And I dare say that the Senate might be close to deadlocked after this year. I mean, right now, I believe it's something like, you know, 53-47 Republicans, give or take, because there are a couple of you know, there's like a titular independent or two in there. The crystal ball says that it could be neck and neck. And so having one independent senator could be an enormous difference maker. I think that you could be poised to make political history, Seth. And I think a lot of people would love someone who didn't caucus with one side or the other.

Yeah. Well, and, you know, we're not necessarily focused on making history as much as we're focused on making progress. You know, I think Americans are just so frustrated. You know, last year I read a study, it's the most partisan year in the history of the US Congress. You know, just straight party line vote after party line vote. And one of the things we're seeing is not only are things not getting done, we're seeing, I think as a result of just this intense partisanship and party loyalty, we're seeing Congress cede a lot of its power to the executive branch. You know, our Constitution made Congress a co-equal branch of government. And that's a really important thing. You know, whether you're a Democrat, whether you're a Republican, you should want Congress to do its job and exercise its constitutional duty as a co-equal branch of government. And, you know, not to get too philosophical about it, but that's a big challenge that, you know, we talk about. Everybody likes to talk about the importance of the Constitution. Well, we should talk about the ways in which our political system is going against what the founders outlined. And so I think some independent-minded senators in there, I'd love to work with other colleagues to reassert the important role that Congress should play in our government. And I firmly believe there are a good number of senators who would like to come together in that spirit.

Oh yeah, I know of a few. They're gonna love you, Seth, just like Montanans are already growing to love you. So you've got land use, constitutional restoration of, let's say, the legislative branch as a co-equal former government, common sense leadership, not leaving, quote unquote, the troops or the people high and dry. When you walk around the state meeting with Montanans, what are they most excited about and what case are you making to them aside from— because, by the way, those are to me very compelling principles. And, and I bet a lot of Montanans are like, oh yeah, I know who this guy is. And like, I'd be happy to have him in there as opposed to like the, you know, the last-minute replacement candidate or the, you know, in my opinion, like kind of no-hoper, like sacrificial lamb on the other side. But yeah, like, what are they finding most compelling about the vision you're presenting?

You know, the interesting thing, Andrew, and you realize this, you've been out on the campaign trail and I appreciate your courage to step into the arena. And so, I always enjoy talking with other people who've jumped into the arena themselves. So, I want to say thank you again for your leadership and your focus. But when you spend your time talking about politics, engaged in politics, it's easy sometimes to forget that the average hardworking Montanan is not paying attention to what's happening necessarily because they're trying to make ends meet, right? They're trying to deal with a sick kid. And the fact that, you know, the steering needs adjusted on their car and the refrigerator just went out and how are they going to make ends meet. And when you look at what's happening to Montanans today, you look at, you know, farmers in our state whose export markets have been hammered by really a non-strategic tariff regime that's hurting them, that's driving up input costs. I mean, diesel's at $5 a gallon, fertilizer's increased by 30 to 50% just in the last few months alone. And that's on top of an already challenging environment for farmers in this country. You know, last year nationwide, we saw farm bankruptcies up 46% versus the previous year. You look at people trying to deal with healthcare, right? The fact that this so-called big beautiful bill last year that created $1 trillion worth of tax cuts added $4 trillion to our national debt, by the way, and but also change Medicaid requirements. It's going to cause 30,000 Montanans likely to lose their health care. $5 billion impact to Montana hospitals. We're going to see hospitals shutting down. And so, so I bring all that context up to say that, that people are worried about how they're going to make ends meet, you know, how they're going to not just raise their kids here, but how are their kids going to stay here. And so, you know, my primary focus is Making the Montana way of life a reality again, you know, and the premise behind that is if you're willing to show up and put in a hard day's work, you ought to be able to afford to put a roof over your head. You know, you ought to be able to afford to get healthcare without having to drive 2 hours to see a doctor. And you ought to be able to make decisions about your own healthcare and privacy with your doctor, right? You should be able to send your kid to a high-quality school. I don't care whether you're a millionaire, whether you're making minimum wage, everybody should be able to send their kid to a school where the teachers are valued and where they can afford to live in those communities. You know, and also the Montana— Protect the Montana Way of Life makes— means that we have to be good stewards of our environment for future generations. We have to maintain access to those public lands that are essential to so many of us. So, you know, when we're talking about those types of issues, and that's my main focus, and again, it's resonating with people who again say, look, we've heard promises. From lots of people. And then we see people who go to Washington, D.C. and they vote what their party leader tells them. We need somebody who's gonna vote what we tell them. You know, I was with a bunch of union leaders on Saturday. I was with a bunch of veterans on Saturday. I'm going around this state and my message to them is, look, I'm interviewing for a job where you're gonna be my boss. And I want you to know that every single day that I work for you. And I think our politicians have— many of them have forgotten that they work for the voters.

Oh, yeah. They think they work for the party or the party leader.

And, you know, for special interests or, you know, they, they're out there for a while, then they want to go lobby. And that's something we're calling for, a ban on lobbying by members of Congress of the committees that they used to serve, a ban on lobbying of former members of Congress for foreign governments. You know, the— this revolving door between the US Capitol and K Street, we have to close that.

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Everyone's concerned that there's like that, that revolving door and just this endemic corruption. Stock trading and the rest of it, term limits, you name it. You could do all of the things, Seth. I'm signaling your spirit of service to the people of Montana. And I'm sure as soon as they meet you, they get it. Plus a million people, I feel like you could get to your fair share of them over the course of this campaign. So let's lay out the campaign a little bit for people.

In your case, it's straight to the general election in November, right?

That's right. We're in the process of getting signatures to get on to the ballot. You know, we need to gain a little over 13,000 signatures to be on the ballot in November. We're well on our way there, and we intend to get far more than the required number. And that's important because we're going around this state and it helps make people— that signature gathering process in some ways is a gift because we're out there, we're talking to people, we're hearing their concerns, and we're asking them, hey, in this 250th birthday of the United States, declare your independence. You know, declare your independence from a government that is at risk of not working for we the people like it should. And so we're going to get on the ballot and we're likely to see a four-way race in November.

I agree with you.

It's a gift because that's the way you build a true grassroots movement of the people where they remember signing this signature list or petition, and then they'll be like, oh, that's my guy. And then they'll tell their friends and neighbors, and then, you know, you guys will be able to make a case in a way. Plus, you'll have the resources where you'll actually be able to speak to voters via the, you know, advertising medium and the rest of it, since you're the leading fundraiser in this whole thing right now, raised as much money as all the other candidates combined. Uh, I love this path for you and for the country, Seth. Um, you make me want to donate again. Um, if someone wants to help your campaign and keep up with you and your journey, how can they best do so?

Well, thank you, Andrew. Thank you for your support. And, uh, and yeah, we're, we're building a movement here, and we've got off to a good start in terms of fundraising. Uh, we got a lot of work to do. You know, this is a campaign that we have to build the resources to get out to, like I said, every nook and cranny of this state and speak with every Montanan. So we're building a grassroots campaign that we want to be tech-enabled as well. And I would encourage anyone who is listening, go to our website, SethForMontana.com, S-E-T-H-F-O-R-M-O-N-T-A-N-A.com. You can click the donate, you can donate through multiple platforms. And would love to have your support because as you mentioned too, Andrew, there's a lot of important Senate races happening, a lot of important governor races happening. You know, one of the interesting things about Montana, you mentioned it's only a million people and we can get out there and we can speak to voters. So an impact of a contribution to our campaign, you know, as compared to other maybe larger states, It has an outsized impact on this race because, yeah, it takes money, but relatively speaking, we're a cheap date compared to some of these other races. And that's really important, I think, for folks to notice. But to your earlier point, we're a relatively small state, a relatively cheap date from a campaign standpoint, but it's still the same weight, one vote in the U.S. Senate, as some of these larger state races.

That's the math, Seth. I have done the math too. You are one of the highest leverage opportunities in the entire country. With an incredible story, incredible candidate, really, not to flatter you too much. But I'm pumped to be in your corner. I'm pumped for other people to join you at SethBurrumMontana.com.

If you have friends in Montana, let them know about Seth.

Please do send him a donation. Tell your independent-minded friends to do so as well.

And let's get him into the U.S. Senate.

We could have an independent fulcrum as soon as January of next year with Seth helping to lead the way. Seth, thank you for running. Thank you for being a real patriot and can't wait to see you in Washington.

Well, thank you, Andrew. Look, that gratitude goes right back at you. Thank you for being in the fight. You know, we need— again, it's— I think it's important to recognize 250 years ago the risk to, to themselves, to their families that the founders of this country took. And, and this democracy that we have, this democratic republic that we have, it doesn't— it's not inevitable that it goes on forever like it does. It takes committed citizens who are fighting to, to serve their other fellow citizens. And I just appreciate your leadership in that fight. Your continued participation in that fight. You could be doing a lot of things, and you're focused on this. You're focused on the future of this country, and I admire the heck out of you, and I'm very grateful for you.

Oh, thanks, Seth.

I, you know, I'm focused on you, my friend. So let's make this happen. SethForMontana.com.

What a candidate, what a story, and what a senator he'll make.

Thanks, Andrew.

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