The Scary Decisions That Fuel Top Entrepreneurs, with Zack Oliva

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Hi, this is Dan Sullivan. I'd like to welcome you to the Multiplier Mindset Podcast. On today's episode of Multiplier Mindset, we have Zach Oliva. And before I get started here, over the years we've gotten many, many hundreds of entrepreneurs who are professionals. And by professional, I mean like lawyers, doctors, accountants, dentists, architects, engineers, and the professions requires a great deal of study. It requires going through credential stages that you have to get there. And generally, that's it for life, that you're in that profession. When I meet one of them, I said, now, are you a lawyer? Is that how you think of yourself? Are you a lawyer, or are you an entrepreneur that has a specialty in law? Are you a doctor, or are you an entrepreneur that has a specialty in medicine, healthcare? And it's a very important question because the vast majority of professionals are really not entrepreneurs. And what I mean is they're just following best practices in their industry. All their knowledge comes from other people in their professions, but entrepreneurs are very different. Entrepreneurs are looking for people who are into growth. They want to grow. And Zach, in his really great interview with us, talks about the fact that he has a nose where things are growing. Coming out of law school, he simply identified right off the bat that gas and oil was really the big thing. This was the big wave that he, with his knowledge of law, could apply itself to the oil and gas industry. And, you know, I'm very familiar with it because we have a lot of people from the gas and oil industry, and a lot of them, strangely enough, are actually from Ohio, where you wouldn't think of Ohio as a gas state, but it is. Pretty well half of Ohio sits not just on one deposit but on two deposits. And it's made all the difference in the development of that particular state that they tapped into the most important thing that makes everything go, which is energy, and natural gas is really the great, great fuel. But the big thing that I think is so pleasing for me and Strategic Coach to hear is the emphasis that Zach simply wants to grow and he'll rearrange his thinking. He'll rearrange his behavior. He'll rearrange how his organization, his law firm is structured just for growth. The thing that I love, we have a major book coming out at the end of 2026 called Casting, Not Hiring. And he makes great mention of the fact that you don't hire for jobs, you cast for roles. A job doesn't really tell you anything about the person. It doesn't tell you anything about what their attitude is towards teamwork. But the 4x4 casting tool, which is a major tool— our entire company, Strategic Coach, every quarter everybody fine-tunes the teamwork role that they're playing in the company. And it just sounds to me like he's done a really, really amazing job of starting with growth and say, how do I have to operate as the owner of the company? Because how I'm growing as an individual, how I'm growing as an entrepreneur, actually determines how my company can grow. There's just everything about what he says is such a great pleasure for us here at Strategic Coach, because if you follow the rules, if you use the tools, growth will come. I'm just so delighted that Zach gave us some of his time and some of his attention that he could share this with other entrepreneurs. I think that what he's doing and the path that he's chosen as an entrepreneur has nothing but growth in front of it. The US, especially Texas, is in for an amazingly great future, and Houston is the center of all this. Something else that I'd like to comment about Zach's experience is that he tells other entrepreneurs about it. It's really great because it's a great language when you have other entrepreneurs and they're also acquiring the thinking tools of Strategic Coach. They're developing the Strategic Coach language. that all of a sudden your connections just explode when people get into that. There are many, many networks that we see where some person got interested in Strategic Coach, got in, had this great insight into how they could grow, and they wanted their friends, their associates, other people who were owners of their own company to actually have the advantage of the thinking tools of Strategic Coach. And this shorthand language that we have in Strategic Coach with all of our tools. And then instantly you have a network. And the other thing, that's your external network, but then you have an internal network, which are your team members. So in Coach, we don't call anyone an employee. We call everybody a team member because they're all growing in relationship to the entrepreneur. So we have an absolutely marvelous program of what we call the team program, and that is the team that directly supports the entrepreneur. And so they come and they also learn the Strategic Coach tools, but they bring it back and they become increasingly more creative, more productive team members to free up the entrepreneur for even greater growth for the company. So it was an enormous pleasure for me to see Zach sharing his entrepreneurial experience. And his experience in Strategic Coach.

So my name is Zach Oliva, and I'm one of the owners of Oliva Gibbs, which is an oil and gas law firm based in Houston, Texas. We've got several offices around the country. I have been in Strategic Coach since 2022, I think. Yeah, I believe it was 2022. It's been an adventure with Strategic Coach. Usually I go to the workshops in Santa Monica, but I've been to all of them and it's always a great time. So I was in law school in Ohio. I'm originally from Youngstown, Ohio, northeast part of the state. And I was living in Columbus, Ohio, going to law school there. And Ohio got like destroyed by the Great Recession, which is right around the time that I was graduating. And in the newspaper, like every day they were talking about this huge natural gas discovery called the Utica Shale. That is a very prolific natural gas deposit in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. And I went around to some of the larger firms in Columbus. You know, I was looking at it as a way out of an economically depressed environment. I was going to where the growth was, I guess. And I went around to some of the larger firms in Columbus and none of them had an oil and gas practice, and none of them were interested in hiring a brand new lawyer, you know, with no oil and gas experience to help them start this. And so, a professor that I had said, you know, if you really want to do this, you should move to Houston, Texas. That's like the headquarters or the center of the oil and gas industry. Now, I'd never been to Texas in my life. And so, I just picked up the phone and I called about 50 law firms in Houston and I found one that was hiring an Ohio-licensed attorney in the oil and gas industry. And so I moved down here on Thanksgiving Day, 2011. After about a year, I left that firm and I co-founded what is now Oliva Gibbs. When I started this firm in 2013, I kind of, you know, like to say I wasn't a real person. Like I wasn't married. I didn't have kids. As long as I could afford, like, you know, Chipotle and my rent, I was pretty happy to do it. Now it's grown. You know, 13 years later, we have over 100 employees. We've got 6 or 7 different offices, a lot of great attorneys and professionals running the business. And so it's been kind of awesome to see that over time. What surprised me is I really believe that the owners of a business, their growth controls the growth of the business. And so when I really started focusing on my own growth, the business really started to grow. And some of that growth was pretty painful. It was really reflecting like, how am I showing up as a leader to this business? Like there was a point in time when we didn't really have any advisors that would, you know, advise us on how to grow the business or on key points in the business. And so the more we started focusing on the, the who's, like really getting A-players in the business and working with advisors or just people that, you know, were employees and were excellent at what they did and getting out of their way, the more the business grew. I guess I was trying to do everything on my own and that did not work well. I knew that I needed to be a leader that developed people. Like, I saw how much I got from developing myself, and I really wanted to carry that over into developing other people. I believe that You always leave everything better off than you found it. And that includes folks who come through our organization. Like we just want them to be better off for having worked at Oliva Gibbs, even if we're just a brief stop in their career, than they would be without that. Right. Another common thread or thought that I had was I needed to get out of the way and I wanted to build a business that wasn't reliant upon me. And it's kind of counterintuitive. So I'm a big student of Warren Buffett. I've been studying him since I was a kid. And I would go to the annual shareholders meetings in Omaha and I would sit there and I would think, this guy has, you know, the same amount of time in the day that I do. And how does he manage all these businesses and all these things? And so that's when I started realizing that I had to make myself very useful in one key area and picking out what that key area is. And for me, I mean, I have two key areas and it's largely strategy and capital allocation. And so really wanting our team to thrive almost without me and continually working myself out of a job and kind of scaling my ideas. And it's, you know, giving up that control definitely comes off in layers. It's kind of nice to be the person that everyone needs and relies on, you know, especially I'm kind of like a service-oriented person. And so a lot of my leadership coaching has been on giving up that control and handing stuff off to folks and letting them run with it. And 99.9% of the time, the way that other people do things is 100 times better than I could have done them. And so it's always great to be able to hand that stuff off, but, you know, building a business that really doesn't rely on me. Yeah, that was my big goal. It's going very well. I mean, we have a great team at Oliva Gibbs. I think one of the lessons that I learned the hard way a few times is there were a few times where I didn't really trust my intuition. And so learning how to trust my gut a little bit more has been, you know, an evolving process for me. And one of the other things is getting super clear. I love the casting 4x4 tool. It's getting super clear for us on what perfect looks like for this role, and then finding the person who can deliver that versus having a generalized idea of, you know, we need someone who can do this role. And you're not really sure when you're talking to candidates what the business really needs. And really what the business needs is what should control who you hire, not the skills that other people, you know, bring because ultimately, like, you know, my partner and I have a vision for how certain areas should look. And I think probably a lesson learned is not getting clear enough on what the business needs in that role. And in some cases, second-guessing my own intuition on things. I work with a great leadership coach and she's really helped me hone my intuition. And it's still a project. Listening for like love and inspiration. If you're spiritual, I guess some people believe that God is inside of everyone or the universe is inside of everyone or, you know, whatever your belief is. And so if that's true and you take that belief, which I do, then God is not inside of you putting fearful things in there, just the good stuff. I mean, entrepreneurship is largely a game of confidence. And I think the Strategic Coach workshops are great at protecting that confidence. I mean, it takes a lot of confidence and ego, I think, to start a new venture. And I'm not saying ego in a bad sense. Like, I think it definitely takes some to get it started because a lot of people are going to tell you that you're crazy for doing it. And then I think over time. Maybe you have a little bit of cognitive dissonance where you thought that maybe the operations in your business should look a certain way, and then you bring in an A-player and they show you a completely different way that you didn't even know about. And so it's like you gotta hack away at the ego at the same time as you're building up the intuition, because you've just really gotta be open to all new ideas. And 2020 during COVID So oil prices went negative for the first time, I think, ever. You know, as an oil and gas-based law firm, that was concerning to us, to say the least. And we had some clients who were like, hey, we are not drilling anymore because of these oil prices. So all the work that we sent you, we don't need. And so we need that back. We don't need you to work on this. And so we literally saw like, you know, some revenue dry up overnight. And my partner Brad and I just were just like, there's no way this is sustainable. And we decided at that point in time that we were going to engage a business coach and like double down on the oil and gas industry. Cause we really believe that it's an important part of, you know, how America gets its energy. Obviously it's important for the country. We doubled down and we hired a coach using the Scaling Up methodology. And, you know, I thought it was probably going to work out because I had studied scaling up and tried to implement that on my own in the business. And that didn't work. We didn't know how it was going to work out. And we knew that the current path that we were on was just like not sustainable. Like we've got this huge hurdle that we have to get over. We have to get the team over it. We don't know how long it's going to last and we need a way to see through and to see a different future. And so, you know, I just posed it to him. I was like, look, if this coach doesn't work out, like we've hired bad people in the past, what's one more bad person that we hire? Like, and now with our Scaling Up coach, Rob, I mean, we've been working together for, you know, 6 years now, have an amazing relationship and have created something awesome, you know, with him. But that was a point in time where we didn't know, like the path that we were going down, we could kind of see the future and it didn't look bright just because I mean, every day the news was like more and more things are closing. I mean, COVID was like a very fearful time. Or we had this other completely untested idea that Rob had never worked with law firms before. He had never worked in the oil and gas space before. And we were just like, we think this will probably work. And so that was a time when trusting our intuition actually worked out really well. I think that looking back at all of our past growth, We've always grown from taking risks. And so that's just the way that, I don't know, the universe or whatever is set up. The growth is always on the other side of the scary stuff. And so the more you can lean into the stuff that's scary or uncomfortable or new, the better. Like you can't expect great results tiptoeing into a risk. I think you just gotta jump in with both feet. Well, I'm showing up to my workshops because Colleen Bauer, who was my first coach in the Signature Program, she said, "B-I-S, butt in seat." Colleen, if she hears this, thank you for that advice. It's been great. And I continue to adhere to that rule. I've gotten a ton out of the Strategic Coach Workshops. I really enjoy the 10X Workshops. The first, not year, maybe half a year of the workshops, I felt like a fish out of water because It stretched my mind so much, and now I just love being in them. The community is awesome. And I'm able to connect with people from all over the country and industries that I normally wouldn't on, you know, very similar issues that we have. I really enjoy also the time to just get away from the business and just think for a little bit. That's super valuable for me. And I've gotten like 10 people signed up for Strategic Coach now. And so whenever I join something like this, I like to pull as many people in with me to kind of keep me committed. I really like to pull people into stuff like this. I get more committed and I also learn more from hearing their stories. Like one of my friends who's in his second year of Signature just texted me today, all of these ideas that he had from his last workshop. And so it's really incredible to see. That. And we also have, I think, maybe a dozen folks in the Team Leaders program. And so our team loves the Team Leaders program. And I would highly encourage anyone listening that if you haven't put anyone in the Team Leaders program on your team, it's a great way to invest in people. Our folks on the team who are in that program, I think they really enjoy it. And I kind of came across Strategic Coach in a really interesting way. We, had doubled the law firm. And then I'm scrolling Amazon one day and I see this book available for preorder called 10X Is Easier Than 2X. And I thought to myself, like, well, shoot, we only grew 2X. We could have done 10X because it's easier, allegedly, right? So I ordered this book and I'm waiting for it to come and I'm waiting for it to come and I'm waiting for it to come. And finally it shows up. And this is relevant to the rest of the story. It shows up on the first anniversary of my dad passing away. And so I open up the book and the first quote on the first page and the first chapter is a quote by an author named Richard Bach, who wrote a book called Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I had never heard that author or that book in my life except for It was my dad's favorite book and it's not even a business quote, right? So I'm like, that's interesting. So I of course pour through the whole book and the next day I wake up and I think I stayed up till like 4 in the morning reading the book. And the next day I emailed, you know, one of the Strategic Coach website and I was like, please sign me up for the next workshop. Someone emailed me back and said, you know, we only have one spot available. And it's coming up very soon. It's on July 24th and that's my dad's birthday. So I was like, I gotta go. I don't know if people believe in this stuff, but I like following the breadcrumbs, following the breadcrumbs has always led me to good stuff. And so a lot of good stuff has come, you know, personally, professionally from joining Strategic Coach. Maybe my dad had some kind of hand in it. I don't know, but good things have come from it. When I started in the workshop, I think probably the first workshop is very similar for everybody where most of the folks in the workshop are absolutely convinced that they can't take free days because of, you don't understand my industry. You don't understand my role. You don't understand my business. And that was true for me. I realized in that first workshop that I hadn't taken a free day, a true free day in probably about a decade. And so it wasn't only, you know, the law firm that I owned. I also ran one or two other businesses at the same time. I was working all the time and it's amazing to me what you gain from taking the free days. I mean, not only, you know, the trust, I think on the team just goes up significantly because like they've got this, right? Additionally, I feel like I'm able to show up a lot more grounded and bringing energy to the team rather than sucking energy out. Like my cup's full. I'm having great family time. I've got some hobbies now. And so I just feel like a much, you know, healthier, more well-rounded person. Looking back on the first workshop, you know, coming up with your lifetime goals and 1-year goals and 3-year goals and things like that. The stuff that I thought was 3 years away was actually like 6 months away or 1 year away or whatever. And I just like crushed that stuff, which is awesome. Yeah, it's just been all good stuff. People that know me best know that I am not an either/or person. I'm an and person. And so I wanted to be able to take my daughter to school and have the revenue growth and, and, and. So for us, our growth since joining Strategic Coach, I think we've grown 3 or 4x in the last 4 years, which is great. Personally, I mean, I'm, you know, my lifetime goal was to be, which I also stole from Colleen, was to be always healthy, mentally sharp, have great focus. And now I have a daily meditation practice. I work out. Every day learning jiu-jitsu, I've lost 30 pounds. So that's all good stuff. Eating healthy is like normal to me now. The business growth has been great. One of the first things that I got out of our 10X program or the 10X program that I was in the first workshop, every exercise and breakout session, it was the same answer is that my partner Brad and I, we needed to hire a president to take over the business. And to manage the operations and things. And so we did that, I think about 9 months ago. Her name's Sally. She's amazing. So I just follow my gut in those workshops a lot more. And now a lot of the goals that I have are a lot more like purpose-driven and intentional and just more in alignment with who I am now. You know, I'm always trying to recruit people into Strategic Coach. And one thing that I hear sometimes is like, well, this won't work for my industry or whatever. And I'm like, man, the types of people and the types of industries that I meet in Strategic Coach, like it's just all industries, all types of people all the time. And so, yeah, I think if it was a room with a bunch of lawyers or a bunch of law firm owners, we would probably be no better than the average law firm because we would just revert to the mean. That's kind of what happens. Right. And so. I love the workshops because I love bringing in ideas from different industries. And sometimes it drives, I think, some folks on our team crazy because they're like, well, has this worked in law firms before? And I'm like, I don't know. And that's the point. Like, we got to take, steal from different industries and steal from different professions because that's part of our edge. So I think right off the bat, one thing that was interesting was we had a few folks on the team who actually developed relationships with people that they met in the team tools who were in similar roles. Right. And so like, I don't know if it was like a networking or like mentor mentee relationship, but that was a strategic byproduct, I guess, of that program. I think I've also just noticed there's been like an evening out of stuff. Like you think about what entrepreneurs look like in the first Strategic Coach workshop versus the 20th, and they're just evened out. And it's hard to explain to people that yes, they'll learn leadership stuff, but a lot of leadership is just like balance and getting health, wellness, community, faith, work stuff, family stuff, whatever. Getting that more in balance is a huge lift in becoming a better leader. And so I think people are kind of surprised when they go to the team leaders and like, yeah, it's about, you know, Olivia Gibbs or it's about, your work, you also have the opportunity to bring a whole host of other stuff and work on that. And so I always tell folks when they're getting ready for their workshop, whatever's blocking your peace, bring that to your workshop and just have that as your intention. We're whole people. We're not, you know, Zach at work, Zach at home, Zach at the gym, whatever. We're a total person. And so we're always trying to develop the total person. These programs tend to be targeted towards, you know, business owners and entrepreneurships and other coaching programs too. And there aren't many that are just focused on the whole person for everybody. And so this is like a level of coaching that a lot of folks normally wouldn't think of on their own or find. And so Brad and I are always really happy that when we get folks that are getting a lot out of the program and even We've even got some folks on the team that, you know, when they can't make a team leader's program, they'll kind of sit down and work on it together. Hey, here's what we would have covered in the workshop, which is awesome. I think that the folks that are listening to this that are in Strategic Coach, keep doing what you're doing, you know, just keep butt in seat showing up to the workshops, like Colleen said, because it's a never miss for me every quarter. It's just, you know, my wife and I have a plan for, we have little kids, just, she knows that I'm going. And for the folks that are not in Strategic Coach, I think maybe just be open to the idea that like, this is one of the best investments that you can make in yourself. And what if I'm right? Like, I might be wrong, but what if I'm right? And so get started now. Dan, keep up the great work. From one Ohio boy to another, really appreciate the company that you've built. It's super inspiring. I just continue to look forward to the ideas that you and the team come up with. And thank you for, you know, Dan and Suvi for everything that you guys do and who you are. You guys have really built something great. Sometimes I'll pop into like a signature, like golden ticket workshop or master's workshop. I meet people who have been in it for 20 years and they're awesome, like super well-rounded, super successful people. And then once in a while in 10X. Or in the Masters, I'll meet someone who took a 10-year break and they always say like, why did I take that 10-year break? I needed this. Why did I stop doing it? And so it's, it's nice to be able to meet those people cuz I'm like, I've never thought that I would stop going to Strategic Coach, but if I ever did, I would easily be able to kind of channel that memory of these other folks. Yeah. Keeps me accountable and I just love seeing people grow.