Transactional vs. Transformational: How Commitment Multiplies Everything with Joe Polish and Dan Sullivan - 10xTalk Episode #242

The moment you stop attending or investing in something that's giving you direction, confidence, capability, and clarity, guess what? You start losing those things, and then you have lack of direction. You're not clear. Your confidence goes down and your capabilities go down.

I think what we're talking about here is the difference between a transactional life and a transformational life.

If you'd like to join world-renowned entrepreneurs at the next Genius Network event, or want to learn more about Genius Network, go to www.geniusnetwork.com. Hello, this is Joe Polish.

And this is Dan Sullivan.

And welcome to 10X Talk. So Dan, I'm wondering if we should just stick with the same intro that we've done, like, this is Joe Polish and this is Dan Sullivan, or we try something new. But for now, we can stick with this.

We can do that afterwards.

So here's what I said, like, with no clue whatsoever about what I'm going to go into this first episode on, I go, Dan, Let me just surprise you with something. I hope you like this idea because I don't think I've ever done anything like this before, but I wanted to give it a shot. So we both have a mutual friend, Gino Wickman, who wrote many books, probably his most well-known is Traction. I interviewed him yesterday for the Joe Polish Show, my podcast. Yeah, I've probably interviewed Gino, I don't know, maybe 3, 4 times over the years. He's spoken at Genius Network. He's attended Genius Network and real smart guy. And I think he's been in strategic coach for like 30 years.

No, he's about the same as you.

Okay, so I'm 28 years. And basically one of the things that came up during the interview we did, we were talking about you. We mentioned you several times and we both have a mutual friend. I will not mention the person's name that has, you know, had a few books, famous bestseller. And, you know, he kind of started out in Genius Network and it really helped launch his business and career. And I got a message the other day from this person saying, you know, I'm not going to continue with Genius Network. I love you guys. It's been so helpful. It's not an end, it's just a pause. And then, you know, he'll come back later in time. And he's like, you know, I've gotta take care of my family and, you know, busy doing this. So I'm only going to attend a few select events where I speak at, and that's all I'm gonna do, you know? So he's like checked out of all of the different learning thing. And I said to Gino, and I said, it reminds me of, you're very similar to Dan Sullivan. I mean, you know, you're now in your 80s and you still are not too cool for school. And we have seen this countless times where people will come into your group, you know, my group, Genius Network Strategic Coach, and they will get a ton of benefit out of it. It'll help be a catalyst for wherever their ambitions are taking them in their business, or more importantly, in their actual life, their personal life too, right? And they get to a point where they think they learned it all, they got all the tools, and now I'm no longer gonna be, a student of learning, I'm now gonna be the teacher, but I'm not gonna still go to class. And I actually think it's a mistake. And I think to tell the person that, there's some are receptive to learning it and they're like, oh, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, why would I ever drop out of, you know, I know all the gym equipment, you know, the personal trainer's got me here, I'm in the best shape of my life, but nah, I think I learned it all. I'm gonna go do it on my own or I'm gonna, you know, only show up whenever I'm the instructor. And there's a part of me that had I not seen this so many times, I would maybe not realize what a dysfunctional thought process that is. Or at least that's my belief, right? You can tell me if you think I'm wrong. I actually think there's something about some individuals, and I don't know if it's ego, I don't know if it truly is. No, you know, I've evolved past this group and I'm not getting anything out of it anymore, so I'm going to do this thing. But when I see someone like, I'm not doing anything else and I'm not going to any events unless I'm the speaker and I'm going to fly in, I'm going to fly out, I'm not going to pay, you know, I don't know. I think it's a recipe for setting yourself up for maybe disaster, maybe a— that you've climbed this far, now you're— I don't know. So I wanted to get your perspective on it. That's the first thing I wanted to do. And then secondly, I'm gonna ask you some of the same exact questions I asked Gino Wickman yesterday, because I'd love to get your perspective without you even knowing what the question is or with even how he answered it, because you've been a coach to both me and Gino for many, many years, and you've been a coach for some of the top entrepreneurs in the world. So the two subjects are, what are your thoughts when people drop out of anything? You know, this doesn't need to be about Genius Network or Strategic Coach. It could be they're on a path, they're doing something, it's helping them, it's helped them get to a point. And they want to opt out of it or worse, opt out of everything.

Yeah, well, first of all, I, you know, I don't know what's going on in their life, but they're making that decision. You just don't know.

Right.

But I'm gonna approach it from a different direction that as long as Joe is putting on Genius, I'll be at Genius. So I'm just gonna approach it not from the negative side, I'm just gonna approach it from the positive side that I've never been to a Genius network work meeting, you know, annual conference, where I, at some point in the event, I haven't gotten said, boy, boy, that's a really great insight. That's a really great thought. And the other thing is that it's my job to get value out of anything that I do. So it's not so much what the event is promising to do, it's what I do. And it's my job When I come to an event, it's not your job. You're putting on the event. It's my job to get value out of it. So that's my basic attitude. So I'm not depending on the other person to kind of line things up with my interests or anything else. It's my job to line things up with what I'm going to get out of it. And sometimes I'm just sitting there, but it's because I made the trip. And I've set aside the time that I get rewarded for it. So I've never had the experience of not getting rewarded from an event at Genius Network, just to use Genius Network as the event. Now, there are some things that I've also attended where 2 days spent doing something else really occurs to me that I'm going to get more out of it than actually making the trip. I think you're unique in my life As long as it's scheduled, I'm going to be there. And that's not a decision I make on an event-by-event basis. It's an event I make for my life.

Right.

Yeah. So that would be the difference in the way that I look at it. Even if I'm pressed. Well, first of all, I know a year ahead of time when the dates are. So I arrange my schedule so that there's no conflict. So what does that contribute to? You know, is this a different point of view that I'm espousing here?

What I like, and I've really tried to understand it, you are very unique in the standpoint that I think you've really framed things as an investment, not a cost. So I think you go into it where you're like, I'm not giving this person money. I'm doing this for, you know, you don't look at Strategic Coach clients as, oh, how much are they spending on Strategic Coach? You look at it as like, You're not doing this for me. You're doing it for you. Do you have a company that collects that money? Do you have a company that services that client? Yes. Just like I do. Right. We collect a fee for Genius Network. People pay in advance. We don't do payment plans. And you really, I don't think, have much of a tolerance for hearing people like, what am I getting out of it? What am I getting out of it? Because when I've watched people say something of the sort to you, you shoot them down, not in a arrogant way or a mean way, you actually just shut down that part of them that is being a bellyaching victim and trying to put their future into the hands of someone else simply for no other reason that they paid money and showed up. When you're like, you're showing up for not me, you're showing up for yourself. I'm here to facilitate. I'm here to coach you. I'm here to create, you know, the best environment with great people, great food, great location, all the great stuff that you do. You just don't seem to, you know, want to take shit from people that are trying to put their future into— they're not delegating it, they're abdicating it. And they're hoping that just because they cut a check, you know, that the money fairy is going to show up and just drop money on their head. And I think part of it, though, is, you know, because I want to frame this for people that aren't in Strategic Coach, like, I've never seen Dan be anything other than first-class professional and conscientious, as is the entire team. It's like a culture at Strategic Coach. So I don't want to in any way, shape, or form have anyone misconstrue what it is I'm saying. I think by the very nature of you selecting and servicing high-level entrepreneurs that are already at a certain level, you sift out most of the takers per se. However, each of us have, you know, people that will come into our groups that are, you know, have big egos, that have a lot of people that often tell them how great they are, and they can sometimes carry that persona in that attitude. And I see you doing a really good job of recalibrating that for people, for lack of a better word. And I'm curious is that, you know, how have you gotten to that mindset? Because that's really what I hope people listening here can acquire. If they have that sort of way to frame and look at books and courses and groups and investments, I just simply think it's going to allow them to squeeze more value out of all their interactions because they're not going into it with an entitlement attitude, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, probably a little bit of a test of my commitment to Genius Network was making sure I came to all the workshops when you weren't there, when you did your sabbatical. One is I thought it would be very supportive to you to know that we showed up when you were on sabbatical. There's just a thing of being there in a consistent, constant way that I think builds our relationship. And I see it as a lifetime relationship. So it's not a, oh, is Genius Network going to be good this year or anything like that? It's not so much about Genius Network. It's just that we have a great creative collaborative relationship and I don't want that to lose energy.

Yeah. Can I say something to that too? Because before I went on sabbatical, because this is really important and I greatly appreciate that. And I'm not saying anyone even needs to agree with this or even can begin to fully understand it because we're talking about a very long-term collaborative relationship that me and you and our organizations and our team have had together. This goes beyond just me and Dan Sullivan. It's my team, it's Babs, it's your team, it's our clients. You know, there's mutual collaboration. And one of the things that I had said, because I— we have this both happen, people, oh, I need to take time off, so I'm going to drop out and then I'll rejoin. I remember saying to Eunice, like, I'm staying signed up for Strategic Coach. I want to pay them. And I know the way you guys handled it, you're like, no, no, you don't need to do that. And part of my insistence was no, I don't look at Strategic Coach as I'm paying and so therefore I need to get the value that I'm looking at the whole, this is a lifetime relationship investment in me. It's like I pay for Strategic Coach the same way that I would carry car insurance. So, you know, I'm not going to shut off my electricity because I think that's a really good idea that you just mentioned.

It's like life insurance. It is. I think it's creative insurance. I mean, to put it in its proper category is that I do some of my best thinking at year sessions and I don't want to miss a payment. Yeah.

Yeah.

Just, I mean, it's like marriage, you know? I mean, you don't do checks on marriage, you know, like you stood up in front of a lot of people and you said, this is the relationship for life. So that either means something or it doesn't mean something. And in my world, you know, it's just one. Right.

Right. I do. It's a commitment, right? It is a commitment and it's done as much for me. Because if I say, oh, you know, like I'm not gonna go to Hawaii on vacation for like 3 months and then all of a sudden cancel, you know, my car payment. If I had, I don't have a car payment, I pay for cash for cars and everything if I do that, but I would not do that, right? It wouldn't make any sense. But I see people that do that in areas where it would really benefit them if they don't opt out. So the whole point of this conversation is when people give themselves wiggle room to wiggle out, They often do. And then they start losing the benefit. And then what happens is if they start going down and they're not getting that support or that insight or that clarity or what you say, you know, these 4 great words. When someone goes to Strategic Coach or any place that's going to help them, they get more direction, more confidence, more capability, and more clarity. And the moment you stop attending or investing in something that's giving you direction, confidence, capability, and clarity, Guess what? You start losing those things and then you have lack of direction. You're not clear. Your confidence goes down and your capabilities go down.

I think what we're talking about here is the difference between a transactional life and a transformational life.

Yes, yes, yes. And if I had to be rude and crude about it, I'd say the difference between thinking like a winner or thinking like a loser. But yes, it is transaction versus transformational. I want to be in the relationship business, not a transaction business. So What happens then, Dan, when someone views Coach like, oh, I'm going to show up for a year, see if I can squeeze as much as I can out of it, see if I can maybe get some clients. And the same thing with Genius Network. You know, we've talked before about, you know, we should have a program for some people called Strategic Poach because they just want to come in and poach our clients. And that's how they view it. Like, if I don't get X number of clients or I don't get this many deals, then I'm not going to— and they literally go into it that way. And sometimes people will hear a conversation that you will have about integrity or, you know, money earned ethically as a byproduct of value creation or not having an entitlement attitude or being a collaborator, you know, and it'll flip a switch. And sometimes they'll be like, wow, I'll make more money being in the relationship business than the transaction business. But some people are so wired in it that I don't know. I think the more that we can create that shift in people's thinking, the more intentional they will be in how they do relationships with others and how they benefit from it. Because everyone that goes into Strategic Coach with that attitude is going to get more out of Strategic Coach. They're going to get more out of Genius Network. The people that don't, they are just looking for ways to get, get, get what they can and then go on to the next thing.

Yeah, I guess both you and I are We are today because of how we've behaved in the past. You know, there's a record. And one thing that I'd like people to know, that when I make a commitment, that it's not a provisional commitment. You know, it's a commitment. It's 100% commitment.

Define provisional so we can get like—

Well, provisional, provided I get this and provided I get that and provided I get that, I'll continue the commitment. But if any of that isn't there, well, it's not about how the other people are responding. It's my decision to make a commitment. Okay. And that benefits me. And you know, my productivity habits, like when I was 70, I told my whole team and I told a lot of clients, you know, for the next 25 years, I'm going to write a new book every quarter. Okay. So I'm started my 45th quarter and this is book for number 45. Now, you know, people said, well, what are you going to get out of that? And I said, I don't know. I don't know. I said, first of all, I'll get really good at creating a new book every quarter, you know, and I have a team. I have an including myself, it's a 10-person team. And every quarter the process repeats itself and everybody knows that they have a role. And it's almost like theater, you know, you're putting on a theatrical performance, but we just finished one, number 44, and I'm not going to go into the complete mechanics of the process and how it goes every day, but every quarter people know that this project is going to be there. And they really love the process. But on Friday, somebody said, well, this is the end of this quarter. This is this book. What's the next book? I said, you know, I'm going to have to think about that over the weekend. But on Monday, I had the new book and it's all sketched out and everything. We're ready to go. All the dates are in the calendar because each person is busy in his or her own way. And once you put the dates, you know, the various stages of the teamwork and productivity, once you put in a quarter, you've got to deliver. And I really like that. I really like that. It's like you're almost creating the future through commitment. Okay. A lot of people say, well, you never know what's going to happen. And I said, I always know what's going to happen. I know a year ahead of time and I don't change dates. You know, once I commit to it, I don't change dates. But there's a skill called commitment. And the way, the way you grow your skill called commitment is by being committed. Even when you said, gee, I wish I had that time back, but I don't have the time back. I believe that when I'm 95, which will be the 25th year, that will be approaching 100 books right now. Out of that, some of those little books that we created became big books. Hunad How became a big book. Gap in the Game became a big book. 10 Times Is Easier Than 2 Times became a big book. Casting Not Hiring is a big book for next year. And we already have the one that we think for the next year because the publisher has said to us, you know, we know you're always creating these little books, so would you tell us about the little books because we might make them big books. And I'm getting better. I mean, the books are getting better and the skill. So a lot of people have transactional futures. I want a transformational future.

Yeah, I really love the line you said. I just wrote it down. You always create the future by commitment. And I want to highlight that because that is— I would like to think that, to use your term, make it up and make it real, which is what creative, ambitious people do, what entrepreneurs do, what artists do. They're making it up. They're making it real. Some people make it up. They kind of try to make it real, but they really don't make it real. Some people in the moment of enthusiasm might start down a path and then they may abandon it because they aren't committed to it or they don't have the, you know, is it a skill issue or is it a will issue? Do they have the will or do they have the skill or do they not have either?

No, I think the will comes before the skills.

Yeah, I do too.

Yeah. In other words, you're all in and now you can be super attentive what's happening with your commitment. Okay. It's not a question if you're going to stay with your commitment. That's a given. You're going to stay with it. Then your attention and your intelligence and your talent can attract other people. Like when I did the commitment that I was going to write 100 books in 100 quarters, I didn't have a team. I was going to do this on my own. And the first quarter I was in, I said, oh my golly, what have I gotten myself into? You know, And then all of a sudden in my company, team members started to appear. My editor appeared and she said, "I'll be happy to be part of this quarterly process." Then Shannon Waller, Terri Morrison, she's my editor for 20 years and she just really knows what Dan sounds like when a book's finished. She just has a real understanding of how I express things and the kinds of words that I use. And then we brought in another writer who takes transcripts of interviews that I do with Shannon Bauer, I've got a good outline. I'm really good at framing a book. For example, because I'm using AI right now, I came up with the next idea for the next quarter, and in a half hour I had the entire structure of the book laid out chapter by chapter. But I've done it 44 times before this, so I've got this growing skill. So my sense is that commitment always pays off with more capability and higher level of confidence if you just commit. Like what I get out of a Genius Network, because I have a commitment that I'm always going to be at Genius Network, I handle the experience every time I come in a better way. I'm getting more out of it. I'm meeting someone that I zero in on. It's like Simon Bowen was at the last one. You spontaneously invited me to the front of the room to give a little talk on ambition. And these are just some thoughts I had. And Simon, the next day, he said, "That just changed my life, what you said, that I'm in my 60s. And you said that ambition is a capability. It's not like a gas tank where you just run out of ambition at a certain point, but you can constantly grow ambition." He said, "I wanna tell you that that's made all the difference in my life." And I said, "But that was real confirmation 'cause I'm working on this theme of ambition But if you think of ambition as a capability, not as sort of a gas tank you got when you were a kid and when you're 50 or 60, you run out of ambition, right? But it's something that gets better. Your ambition gets bigger, it gets better, and it does more good in the world as you're going along. So you have to have a constant process, and commitment gives me the constant process where really great things can happen.

You know, the skill and the will thing to come back to that. How do you look at it when someone does develop, let's say an easy one, they hire a personal trainer when they first don't know anything about working out, they work out for, you know, 2 years straight. They just know everything. And then all of a sudden they just have lost the energy or the desire and they know how to cook, they know how to eat, they know how to exercise, but they're not doing it. So they have the skill. But they lost the will, right? Because I do believe it starts with will.

I think this is a great idea. I mean, I can see the front cover of the book, Will and Skill. Yeah, I'm looking for quarterly book titles.

Well, okay, then let's put that one on as a potential. So when I was talking to Gino Wickman yesterday, I asked him some of the questions, which I am going to ask you some, even if we turn it into the next episode. One of the things that I shared with him when I was a Devereaux carpet cleaner, I was literally losing money. I was paying money to work. I was not making any money and I didn't want to go get a job. I had the will to try to live out this entrepreneurial fantasy that I had and build a business. And in spite of that, it was not working profitably and financially. But I didn't give up and I kept at it. I kept at it. So I totally had the will. But I didn't have the skill. But having the will caused me to continue to seek out the skill. And like your thing on commitment, I don't think what you're saying, build it and they will come. I think what you're saying is if you're committed to building it, then these other people related to your books that you didn't have in place, they didn't just show up because you, you know, law of attraction, I'm wishing that an editor would show up. You motions and behavior and activity and commitment in the place. And through either very little work or some strategic resourcefulness, these people came into your life. Some you actively sought out, others you just created the conditions and they showed up, right? So you can actually attract things into your life that don't appear to be a lot of work. In some cases, it often seems effortless if you at least commit. To something. But a lot of people, I think they feel like nothing good ever comes to me even though I work really, really hard. And I think that's where it gets frustrating because people will be like, how is it that a person across the room is having all of this success with webinars and I try to do a webinar and it just fails flat? Or this person just happens to have this offer that'll work and they don't really compare apples to apples, nor if you were look at each of their behavior. Are they doing things exactly the way that the person having success is doing it and they're somehow doing it better, but they're not getting results? So it becomes complicated. But I'll tell you, the person that is committed has the stamina to go through all the bullshit, whereas the person that doesn't have the will and doesn't have the stamina could have the greatest things brought to them and they will still figure out how to not get leverage from it.

Yeah. What we're discovering in, you know, in a technological age, because there's always new technologies coming along. Give you an idea of how I approach AI very differently than a lot of people that I notice who are doing AI, because first of all, it's a major change in the world. When November 30th, 2022, when ChatGPT hit the market, this is the beginning of a new age. You know, it's like when steam power was created. It's like when mass printing created. It's like when the internet was created. These are forever new capabilities in the world. You know, I didn't jump right into it, but somebody said, you know, this one particular— I use Perplexity. It's not one of the real major AI platforms, but it's, it's got a nice feel to it. You know, I've been on it, I would say, virtually every day since I first started. And I said, you know, I'm just going to really develop this one AI capability and I'm just going to I'm just going to use it for one thing, and that's for writing. I'm just going to use it to speed up my writing. Okay. And I would say the speed with which I can write a quarterly book has gone up by easily 4 times. I'm a year and a half later. But the way I approach AI is with a commitment. I'm just going to maximize the use of this one tool, you know, and we've got some real whiz-bang AI people in our program. You know, Mike Koenigs, you have him in doing 2-day specials. And 3 of our team are coming to your headquarters and they're doing it. But my sense is that commitment attracts the resources you need, and I'll translate it back into your will. If you have the will, the skill will develop.

Yes.

And when the skill develops, it strengthens the will that produced it.

Yes.

So the reciprocal relationship that when you just stuck it out in carpet cleaning days. You just stuck it out. You didn't just become a really great carpet cleaner. You became the teacher of carpet cleaning as a business for thousands of people.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that wasn't your intention. That wasn't your intention, but it certainly was your reward, as you call it.

It was a strategic byproduct of going down a path, figuring something out, always being open to opportunities, being ambitious as heck. And also realizing that, oh, I discovered a recipe that actually worked for me. When I was not having success, I had recipes that were producing failure. When I created a success recipe, I then also said, huh, I wonder if this would work for other people. And then I started down that path and voilà, it turned into a whole nother business. And I think in a lot of ways, Dan, all of the thinking tools and all of the Strategic Coach IP and all of the formulas and methods that you learned along the way through the successes and the failures ended up becoming the program of Strategic Coach. That's where skill and will combined with ambition and value creation can become something far greater. I mean, I think that's when you get into the realm of 10x.

Yeah.

If we call this 10x talk, A lot of times the 10x is just simply how you reframe things. Like if someone's not getting 10x in some area of their life where they would like, the question becomes, are you committed to it? Because if you're not, I guarantee you can listen to 100 episodes, you can read books on it, it ain't going to happen. But the moment you go from I care about something to I'm committed to something, that's when the doors open up. I had this one, one gal that I helped with her recovery many years ago, and she painted something for me that said, You know, I didn't come up with the line, I just learned it in 12 steps and I had shared it with her one day when we were having a conversation about just how damn difficult it was for her to go into recovery. And she painted something that I still have, it's hanging at the office, it says, "Recovery didn't open up the gates of heaven to let me in, but it opened up the gates of hell to let me out." You know?

Yeah, well, it's not something external that opened the gates. It's something internal that opened the gates, right? I mean, probably the greatest failure of a, you know, addiction is at the very, very basis, you're someone that you can't count on, right?

Yeah, yep.

And to have to grapple with that, and you have to live with the person you can't count on every day of your life, 24 hours. You have to live your life with someone you can't count on. That's a pretty good description of hell.

No, totally. And it deepens the shame, it deepens the guilt. You know, at first you feel bad when you do things like you don't keep your own word. Like if you think of the first referability habits, 'cause you have the referability habits, which this is all Dan's stuff, it's great. You know, the first one is show up on time. The second is do what you say you're going to do. The third is finish what you start. And the fourth is say please and thank you. And if you wanna make sure your life, and you don't have a high opinion of yourself, never show up on time, you know, just—

Don't do what you say you're gonna do.

Yeah, yeah, don't keep your word, don't finish anything you start, you know, be kind of entitled and they'll never say please and thank you, just walk through the world as if everyone owes you something. You know what, you're not gonna have many friends except the transactional ones because there are groups of people that literally their whole gang, their whole tribe is a bunch of people like them and it's usually misery loves company or whose status is gonna be bigger than the other one. I mean, I watch some of the influencers and their relationships and the group they get together with, and I know them because they'll talk shit about each other behind their back and they're all competitive with each other. And who's got, you know, the most followers, who's had the biggest launch. And they're usually people that are, unfortunately, I hate to say this, book authors, coaches, info marketers, the ones that are dispensing personal development advice. You know, that little clip in the movie that Devon Patel made about me called Connected, and I have this little sign from despair.com and it says, you know, the secret of success is to pretend you've already achieved it, then offer to sell that secret to other people. And I said, yeah, that could sum up most of the personal development industry. And it's like, so you got a lot of these people and they're all hanging out with each other, sharing what it is they do, to either sell or in some cases fleece their customers. And they all act like they're really close friends with each other. And some of them are, you know, some of them have good relationships, but a lot of them, they're the most two-faced shit-talking people. The other industries where I see a lot of it are people that are in politics. It's like this bizarre world of show business and backstabbing all under the guise of impact. And it's the weirdest damn thing. And I'm like, okay, you know, but within that world of, book authors and speakers and coaches. Now there's also some really amazing people, you know, there are people that are doing really great stuff and it's kind of, you can meet people in these industries and I think it applies to every industry. You know, every industry has its collaborators and every industry has its competitors and everything in between. But the punchline to all of this, Dan, that this whole conversation, I mean, maybe I should have said this at the beginning, it might have framed it differently, but I hope I hope that everyone listening to this actually sees this is not about me and you talking about Strategic Coach and Genius Network and our clients. It's really about your own clients and the way you do business. Like, are you a person that actually shows up not expecting the other person to do the work that really comes internally from you? You know, if you go into anything committed to where I'm going to bring the most I can. Because I'll tell you, the way that I've gotten the most out of Strategic Coach and out of our relationship is to show up and participate and be a giver in the same way you have. And if I showed up with it, like it's the JFK line, you know, don't ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country. And I'll tell you, if you have that sort of attitude towards everyone and everything, I think you're just going to have a completely different experience.

Because you started off with a particular type of individual or person who does this, you know, and I can understand the annoyance. I feel the same way with individuals who bow out of coach, you know, for example, they use exactly the same script, you know, okay, I'm just taking a year off and everything like that. And rather than taking it personally on my side is that you realize that the way they're treating you that it's provisional or it's transactional is the way they treat themselves.

Right.

They're not transformational with themselves. They're transactional with themselves. My sense is, and that's the penalty that they get punished with when they do it to someone else, is that it reinforces the fact that they're transactional with themselves. And they have to move from situation to situation thinking the new situation is going to transform them. Them, but it's the same person they're taking into the new situation.

You are exactly right. And I also want to say this too, because I've witnessed this, not— and I operate this way to the best of my ability— is when someone has been a member of Genius Network, we always care about them and we will treat them well. And a lot of them, they will often drop out and they will ask us for help or favors. And a lot of times, because of what I do now, I have a person who dropped out, got a hell of a lot out of Genius Network and, you know, dropped out anyway, continued to do business with some of the clients and has made enough money from being in Genius Network to pay for membership for the next 40 years. And in spite of that, still is not current, but also, you know, reached out because, you know, one of this person's children is struggling with addiction. And of course I made connections and set them up to get them help. And this person left me the most glowing, thanking, appreciative message. Still didn't renew back into Genius Network. And that's okay because that's okay, right? I've always looked at the way that if someone's in Strategic Coach, you know, you're not going to be a jerk to them. Now, if they're disrespectful or they're not reciprocal, there's not a real good reason to continue to quote unquote be nice to them.

And you can even sue them. Yes.

Yes, you absolutely. Yeah. That's a whole different scenario. Uh, it's the thieves and the charlatans and the plagiarizers and the thieves. No, but I'm talking about just when someone drops out, we, you know, we still look at them, you know, for lack of a better word, like, yeah, they've been part of the family, you know, we're gonna be nice to them and stuff and be respectful. And, you know, and if there's a time when they come back, then they do come back. And also, because we talked about it on a previous podcast, you know, what you said is that almost all the times that someone drops out of something that's good for them, it's always a social reason. You know, there's some marriage, some divorce, death, some illness. There are those, you know, certainly, and that does make sense. And there are times where if someone runs into a cash flow issue and they can't afford it, of course that is understandable. And that's why I think me and you have lots of other things that can help people along the way, such as all the books you've written, all the podcasts you've recorded, that we've recorded. You know, we've got a body of work that can help someone. Like, the person 2 days ago sent me a message. I met this person at the Charlie Kirk Memorial and, you know, it's a very bright guy and he's not at a level where he can, you know, afford to join Genius Network because he doesn't qualify. But he did say, you know, I'd really like to take my $250,000 a year business to $2.5 million. And I said, okay, well, here's what I recommend. 2 things. Read 10X Is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy and listen to the 10X Talk podcast. I sent him a link to our podcast. I go, that's what it's for. And guess what? The book might cost you $20 and the podcast is free. So the question though is, are you gonna avail yourself of it? It's all there.

Yeah.

You know, and so that's kind of how I look at it. Here's what I'd like to do, Dan. I'd like to take the questions that I said I was gonna ask you in the beginning and I wanna wrap up this particular episode and I wanna leave a little bit of a cliffhanger. And in today's ADD ADHD world, back in the day where, you know, you had to wait till the next TV episode would show up. Cliffhangers were more valuable than they are today. Today there's so many other things vying for someone's attention that they often forget. But what I'm going to do on the next episode with Dan is I'm going to ask Dan some questions that I asked Gino Wickman on a podcast yesterday. And the reason I want to ask Dan is because Dan has been a coach for both me and Gino Wickman, and so much of how Gino has structured his life and how he built EOS has actually come from the influence of Dan. So I think it would be a really great perspective to hear how Dan would respond to some of these questions related to building and growing a business, but also being engaged in your own life, because I don't know a person that has been more congruent with living out the message that you've been teaching for many years, because some people A lot of people are teachers, but they're not doers, but you're both. You do what you teach and you share what you've learned. So what final things do we need on this conversation to put a bow on this one? And then we'll do a second episode where I ask you some of these questions.

First of all, I want to tell you what I got from the podcast here, that Will and Skill is real. It's a killer title. So the thing is that you don't become great without have a really collaborative relationship between your will and your skill. You know, that will grows skill and skill grows will. But that's an internal thing. You know, I think the big thing that we're talking here is between people who are looking for the answer outside themselves instead of looking for the answer inside themselves.

Right, right.

Yep.

So my hope for all of our listeners is take a look at how you show up with everyone that you are investing in. Is it a cost or is it investment? And if you do not like the way your clients are treating you, then look at how are you treating your clients. Because we all deal with this same sort of thing. And that doesn't mean you're not going to attract people that take advantage or people that aren't appreciative of you. That's par for the course. I stayed in my book, if you're going to be a giver expect to attract takers. But if everyone in your life seems to be a taker, you might want to take a look at why that is happening. And if you don't have any collaborations around you, is it because you're not collaborative?

Yeah.

So thank you, Dan, and subscribe to 10x Talks, share this with anyone that may benefit from hearing it, and we will talk to you on the next episode of 10x Talks.

Good luck.

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