Wealth, Robots, & Doing Good

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Hey, guys, we are back. I'm going to be taking questions from you, our listeners, courtesy of your mouthpiece, Zach Grahman.

I'm back. Yang gang or Andrew Yang, podcast listeners. I'm sorry if you're sick of me. You know what I mean? It's been sick.

They love you. Our ratings spike every time Zach's handsome face graces the thumbnail.

Good to be back, man.

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Yes. This is now like week two, slash three of Noble Mobile, which has been a blast. Thank you to all who've signed up. The product is getting rave reviews. People are saving money. They're looking up and logging off a little bit more. I've got, you know, I mean, shoot. I don't know if the camera's gonna catch this, but, like, I have my cashback wheel and I'm let you know, I'm no phone avoider. So if I'm on track to get money back, then certainly anyone can let me pull up the wheel. So, full disclosure. Last month I got $2 back, which was not great. But right now, I'm on Track to get $17.89.

You're doing well this month.

Yeah. So this month, less, I guess I have.

I'm working on. One of the best things I want to be able to say is that people join Noble by the numbers, use their phone less. I think it's a really compelling pitch and that's what we've seen in sort of early users, but people just signed up in the past week or so. So I gotta wait for a month.

Yeah, more data. Yeah, me too. I mean, as I've said, it's like, look, you. It's one thing to doom scroll. It's another thing to doom scroll and feel like you're costing yourself money because then you're like, oh, this is doubly dumb.

Hell yeah. Yeah. Guys, it's been a blast. We're signing up people. People are really getting into it. I will say this for those who've been following Yang for a while. We've got Yang in the office like 8am to 8pm like grinding. And it's.

I do, I do emerge sometimes to do a press appearance or.

Yeah, you do other things.

But it is true. Like I'm, I'm actually.

You're all in, man.

It's been fun at it, you know, and I see the, I mean, feel, I mean it's off to a tremendous start and you feel the energy. But also just by the numbers, like we're getting gouged to like, you know, tune of tens of billions of dollars a year. Like if I can get $1 billion in cost out of this market, it would also bring down, it would put a billion dollars back in Americans pocket. So that's an enormous win. But it would also put pricing pressure on this industry. Why are Americans paying twice as much as Europeans? Australians, like, you name it, and it's, you know, America, it's because you have like a, you know, consolidated market with megacorp who are just like, hey, you travel abroad. Like, you know, we're going to charge you whatever the heck we feel like, you know, we're going to make it up. So it's so it gives me great joy and vigor to tackle this every day because it's such a meaty problem. And I wrote in my newsletter that it took me a while to find a business problem that would help so many people.

Yes.

But now that we've had it, it's like freaking go time.

Yep, let's go time. I would say a couple things. We're hiring like crazy or not like crazy. We're hiring a good amount. So any engineers or I'll say social media marketers. My DMs are open. But also careersoblemobile.com fire resume off. Can't hurt. And you're listening this technically after we just brought Noble Mobile to Buffalo. So this is before the game. I'm gonna say the Bills obviously just rolled on the stage.

Obviously.

Obviously. We've drummed through a bunch of tables. We have Josh Allen Cousees, my lord and savior. It is a fun experience for me because I'm mixing probably my two biggest passions into one sort of Activity. And so selfishly, I'm having a freaking blast. But today, and for those of you listening to this podcast, like we are deeply passionate about Noble, we're talking about all the time. But this podcast is also going to stay Andrew Yang's awesomeness. So fear not in that sense. And so we want to dive in to mailbag.

Yes. Some of which I have no idea what's coming. So, yeah, fire away.

These are curveballs, but I want to start quickly. We didn't get this. Well, we got this loosely and we get it online, too. You wrote a blog on Charlie Kirk. It's been all over the news, obviously, and it's a big moment in American history, in a way. I watched. Well, actually, that's about me. I'm curious if you want anything to add about what you've seen, events wise, surrounding the death of an assassination of Charlie Kirk.

No, I think just about everyone of good conscience and character said political violence is terrible. More in Charlie Kirk as a husband and father and human. And then unfortunately, in the way American politics now does is that it feels like it's getting increasingly politicized as there's like an approach from the administration to celebrate his life and mourn his passing, but also blame certain actors and certain institutions and saying, look, and that stuff is noxious and bad. You know, it's like, this is clearly not a one side problem. This is like an America problem. This is an Internet problem. In part, it's a gun problem. It's a mental health problem. And Bill Maher did a piece too, where it's like, look, trying to make sense of madness or lunacy is a fool's errand. Like, you know, it's not like, yeah, you know, your side, this side, it's like, it's just they're, they're nuts because.

One too many as well. You know what I mean? Like, even if it skews one way or the other, like, you still had. You had someone on. Someone on the right kill Charlie Kirk and you had someone on the left kill the Melissa Hortman and. Yeah. In Minnesota. Right?

Yeah, yeah, sure.

So both of those are awful, right? Like, they should be happening. It's just not a party. It shouldn't be a partisan thing. Although we've made it that.

Yeah, so. And I wrote that Charlie Kirk's assassination is going to be worse on multiple levels. One, because of his prominence. But two, is done the light of day in front of everyone. I was recording videos. Grotesque. And so that's, I mean, like, no one saw a Video of Melissa Hortman and her husband getting shot in her home. I mean, if we'd gotten that, it might have had a different impact. But also, most people don't know who Melissa Hortman was. Melissa Hortman didn't have a social media following of millions. And so you put it together and this one is different. But lawmakers are fearful and it's just going to get worse. I mean, like I wrote to that this unfortunately feels like the middle innings of the surge in political violence. And I do fear that from what I've seen and sensed after Charlie Kirk's assassination, the treatment, unfortunately, I don't think it's the last. I mean, obviously you pray that it was, but it doesn't seem like it.

Will be, I think. And you know what? I would say this for those listening if. If you hate the right and you couldn't stand Charlie Kirk and his opinions, I think you have to say, at least for me, to me, ignore the content. He was doing it a version of the right way and that he embraced debate better than almost any political figure in the country. And there are plenty of folks on the right and the left that will make their takes and hide away and don't talk about how many times does Alex Jones have a rational conversation with someone about his opinions? He doesn't. Right. He just rants on his mic. And so that's what you want, is a version of a Charlie Kirk is like saying things you disagree with but letting people argue with him. And that's what that was, I think. Sad. Obviously the whole thing's tragic. But I, and I wish this about the left more often that they would embrace more debate like this. And so that was. It was a shame. I will say this, and I would encourage everybody listening to do this. I listened and then I read Erica Kirk, Charlie's wife's speech, and it was moving. It was really powerful. And she basically said a version like I forgive the killer. And she used an opportunity for grace and love. And it felt to me like it hit me like a version of needed leadership in the US that we don't get very often. We usually get fire em up. I'm angry. And there's times for that, sure. But other times, there's times for unity and, and sort of like enlightenment on things like this. And for her to do that is the one who's hurting the most out of everybody here. It was powerful. It was really, really powerful. It moved me. So I would encourage you to watch it. And I read it too, because I Think sometimes the emotion get caught up in it. But reading like word for word was really, really. I don't know.

Yeah, it was stuck with me. Yeah. I mean imagine losing the father of your children, your husband in that way and then being able to forgive.

Yeah.

The assassin days later. It really was a wonderful expression.

Yeah. And I think something the country needs and we need more forgiveness and grace. Okay guys, thanks for sending your questions. Just as a reminder, you can always send your questions to mailbagandrewyang.com and you can leave us a 30 second voice memo if you want to rant. And we listen to them and we try and pull them up here. So hopefully you guys who sent the manuals hear your stuff. Okay. Question for you. Andrew wants to talk about the minimum wage and the wealth tax. It's kind of a two part question, but they're sort of the same vein. So I'll start with what Steve asked. He said, look, the minimum wage is $7.25 an hour or if full time, about $15,100 a year. Our federal government states that a single person would be in poverty making $15,650 a year. How can a government promoting general welfare allow a minimum wage? That doesn't get you there. He says also it seems those of high wealth have income sources out income. They amass wealth and utilize tax code to accelerate wealth accumulation. And with that said, why do we still have income based tax system and not a wealth tax which truly would be progressive? So twofold of that minimum wage and wealth tax. Let's unpack. But thank you, Steve, by the way.

Yeah, so first, the minimum wage is completely ridiculous and out of step. I mean, if you account for inflation, I think the appropriate figure would be perhaps three times higher.

Oh yeah, man.

And if you do the math, I mean 15k a year is also ridiculous. And I mean that's true no matter what part of the country you live in. So the federal government is. And as we've gotten deeper into these things, our government has lost the thread in so many ways. I will say that the vast majority of employers are not paying the minimum wage because no one would work for them.

No one would work for it.

And so the minimum wage has become less and less meaningful on that level because it is so ridiculously out of step.

But it's still real.

Yes, but the second part of the question is accurate in terms of wealthy people are not working on an hourly basis for their money. It's one of those things where their money makes money when they sleep like they bought a house, and the house shot up in value. There's a lot of that dividends on shares of Verizon stock. I mean, I'm going to use Verizon as a punching bag forever, but Verizon is paying 6% on their stock. So rich people just buy lots of Verizon stock and then get 6% back if you wanted to level it out. And, you know, like an accountant friend of mine said to me a long time ago, it's like, you know, if you want to encourage labor, why are you taxing it at higher levels than investment income? Like, wouldn't you do it the other way? And, you know, he was honestly curious. But it was like a fascinating question. I think goes to the heart of what this question is asking is like, why do we somehow valorize investment income by taxing it less and then punish labor income by taxing it more? Especially in an era, as you all know, like, I think AI is going to eat a lot of jobs. And so you really should be running away from taxing jobs because you should be encouraging everyone to go out and try and do something productive with the time, make it easier to hire, et cetera, et cetera. So this is an example in my mind of the US just being way, way, way behind the curve where a lot of these, A lot of the tax code was written back when labor was much more central to how people made money. But now the government wants nothing to do with this because the capital holders control, both parties control policy. And so the last thing they would want to do is like, what, you're going to actually make it harder for me to, like, make all this money by, you know, just having investment income.

Right.

I mean, the clearest example of that was the carried interest provision.

Oh, yeah.

Which was totally bogus. It was that, you know, private equity and hedge fund interest didn't get taxed at the same level as income, even though it really functioned as income. And the. And then they would say, you know, this isn't for us. This is for all the teachers. Pension funds.

Yeah.

That are invested in our funds. Like, don't you want the teachers to get more money? Which, like, also really rang false to me because it's like, look, you know, I mean, like, it's. I mean, you're talking about these companies and the, the hedge fund managers comp. Not like the, the stuff in your funds. And then, then they also had this great argument was like, if we got taxed at a normal level, we wouldn't do this work because, you know, it's such hard work and that we, you know, we just stopped doing it if you taxed us like it was income. And we're like, are you kidding me? Come on. I mean that's like. So there were some really, really shoddy arguments for like having the carried interest loophole. So that's like the most egregious example of what this question is asking. So yes, the US tax code is whack and messed up. Yes, the minimum wage should be way, way higher. And you're right, you know, I mean the questionnaire is probing is totally correct.

The spirit of innovation is deeply ingrained in America and Google is helping Americans innovate in ways both big and small. From improving emergency response times to protecting against cyber attacks. Local, state and federal governments are innovating with Google AI. This is a new era of American innovation. Find out more at G CO AmericanInnovation. Part of this like a conversation on capitalism too. And you and I have been sort of in this. Two things can be true at once. We've sort of been. You've called yourself a human centered capitalist. And I agree with that. And I remember. So I used to run was called a team called client philanthropy Advisory. So I would meet with the and I was on Wall Street, I was meet some of the largest wealthiest people on the planet. And I had this sense and when I'm meeting people who had this so much money and my sense was like, if regular people knew, like not that they know there's rich people, they know how rich, like how freaking rich, they'd be a lot more angry. But instead I think we get distracted with the Jimmy Kimmel nonsense for two days every, you know, it's like we see this sort of, you know what I mean? Like, it's sort of one of the things is like people are piling up at the bottom.

When I was running for president, it's like, look, I don't care about what the town dentist is paying. I care about what Jeff Bezos is paying. Yes, it's like, let's just go to where the money is.

Where the money is.

But so the thing that makes me sad, and this questioner is again pointing it out, is that our government has fallen asleep at the switch. Both parties have fallen asleep at the switch. And then you would say was this party's fault, is that party's fault. I mean it's really, really easy to freeze up this political system and make it so it doesn't come after you. If you're like a major industry or capital Holder. And if the folks do come after you, you can probably get some of them to lose their jobs, you know, pretty quickly. Or in this administration you could probably call someone and have them yelled at. But like that there's like. So right now doing the right thing by the average American is a loser politically if the capital holders are going to be aggrieved. Yes, yes.

And it's, that's my big thing. We lose the plot a lot. You know what I mean?

And by the way, it's one reason why I'm focused on money so much. Because of money?

Yeah.

Like to me it is about the money. It's like if I can get money in your hands by any means possible, I'm going to do it. Like the biggest victory we've had movement wise that I've been directly involved in is the permanent child tax credit for sure. I mean that's going to put tens of billions back into people's hands starting next year.

Let's keep going because there's a bunch of good questions. But Steve, thank you for that one. This next question comes from Andrew who is a PhD. He said, hey, this is a good one. He said, hi Andrew. First let me thank you for being such a change agent. Change agent and inspiration. Thanks Andrew. For Human Centered Economy and democracy reform, I've been a long term monthly though small donor to the Forward Party. Thank you Andrew.

Thank you Andrew.

I Write as a 39 year old MIT PhD, XBCG. God bless you. Tech startup founder slash operator and concerned citizen who have spent the last eight years living and working in Africa on society, sustainable development and democracy reform from various angles. Wow. I like, I like, I like humble brags like this. This is good. You're doing good stuff. Andrew. I would welcome any brief thoughts you have on where you suggest concerned young people with experience can focus their time to make a difference these days. Are there any trends, organizations, people you suggest I connect with or anyone connect with? I love this question because it's like, hey, I do want to help. I have some skills. I have maybe resources or time or whatever. What should I be focused on? What should I be doing?

Wow. So I write about this in the newsletter this week is like how do you try and do good? And in my view there are three main domains to try and do good. One is commercial and business, two is non profits and NGOs and then three is politics and policy. And I think most people kind of gravitate towards one of these three. So the first thing to do would be to figure out which of those three, you know, moves you or you're the best fit for etc. And one thing that makes me sad about this era is that people, some people regard business as not positive.

Evil. Yeah, yeah.

And sometimes it is look like, are there big businesses that are corrupt? Of course, totally. Like, you know, and we've all seen like narratives and movies to that effect and like a lot of real life. But. And the example I use in my newsletter is like the average restaurant employs a couple dozen people, hopes and dreams of a family, lights up the block, gives you a place to go and eat, hopefully delicious food, etc. Like, you know, no one lionizes that family or restaurateur, but we should especially because that's like a lot of work, you know, and, and so you can take businesses big and small, and in my mind a lot of them do great stuff. The best thing I experienced when I was CEO of Manhattan Prep was seeing the operations person start as like a recent college graduate. And they get promoted to a manager, they get promoted to a director, and then get raises and bonuses to a point where she could buy a home. And that was freaking awesome, you know, and she deserved every bit of it. And so that, that's so for Andrew the questioner, it's like, look, is there a business that's doing something you're pumped about and it sounds like he's worked in sustainable energy. So that there, there are probably sustainable energy companies here in the US that are doing something you could get very excited about. The second is non profits and nonprofits have, I'd say, you know, one enormous advantage and then two, maybe I should even it out. I'll go with two advantages and two disadvantages. So the big advantage is that they can do extraordinarily wholesome work.

Yes.

That is not marketplace dependent.

Yes.

And then the second thing is that you generally are around some real well intended actors, experts in these well intended actors, every level. The drawbacks are that one, they tend to be resource constrained or resource starved and two, because the payers are not the beneficiaries, you can run into some inefficiencies and things that get that like get stretch you in one direction and not the other.

For sure.

I spent six and a half years running a nonprofit that I started and so I've got a lot of love, but there are limitations. So Andrew, if you're trying to go enormous now, one nonprofit I shout out in my newsletter is one I'm on the board of called FairVote. And so FairVote is trying to make ranked choice voting happen in cities and states around the country. And one reason I love what FairVote does is that it seems kind of esoteric, but every place it goes, it can unlock and activate public resources if governance improves and political incentives improve. So that's an example of a nonprofit that I was like, ooh, like this thing you can imagine if it's successful, it could have outsized impact. And then the third is of course, politics, policy, government. Thank you Andrew, for being a donor at any level to forward party. We love that. And as you can tell, one of my great frustrations is that I do not think that the two party system is going to solve many of these problems. Now you have an administration that's not, in my opinion, very solutions oriented at all. The Democratic Party, some will be like, oh, the Democrats really are going to solve some of this stuff. And you're like, are they really? When push comes to shove, in my opinion, the Democratic Party often now will take on symbolic stances and issues. But the American standard of living has slipped away regardless of which party was in power. And I felt better about some presidents and administrations than others. But you got to say, they haven't really turned the ship around. So if you had better incentives, open primaries and new entrant that wasn't of the two parties. One of my jokes is that worst number of parties you can have is one. Second worst is two. And then third worst would be three. But three would be a lot better than two because all of a sudden each side would have some pressure on it to be like, oh, we actually should do something because we can't just blame the other side. I mean, right now when this podcast airs, we're careening towards a government shutdown and that, that stuff. Like, you know, if you actually distill what's happening here, it's awful. Where look, not a fan of a lot of things that have gotten passed by the Republicans over this past year, but the Democrats are now at a point, if you rewind to earlier this year, Chuck Schumer was like, well, I'm not going to do a shutdown because these jokers want to shut down the government. And it's going to be bad for 2 million government employees. It's going to do all this stuff. And then Chuck Schumer got pilloried for doing all this. Because it's like, Chuck, like, you know, we want a fighter. Are you a fighter or not? And then Chuck was like, oh shit.

So then fight now.

Yeah, yeah. So now it's like, okay, now it's fight time. And then they're like, what are we gonna ask for? We're gonna ask for a restoration of some of the health care cuts, which, by the way, I totally agree with. I think the health care cuts are noxious and, and the rest of it. I'm just highly dubious that the Republicans are gonna be like, oh, snap, you're gonna shut down the government. Sure, we'll like restore these cuts. Because the Republicans intrinsically are kind of anti government. So they'd be like, oh, you guys shut this down. And so to me, this is an example of you have two sides and bad things ensue because the political incentives are such that the Democrats are exhorted by their people to be like, you must fight these guys. These guys are terrible. And I know you guys might be tired of me saying this, but the time to fight was when Joe Biden was preventing a primary in January of 24. The Democrats fought then. That would have been righteous Democrats. Now it's like, you know, it's after the fact posturing to keep your base off your back. And they're going to be real people hurt.

So when I used to work in impact, I was saying, and I used to get this question a lot on, like, how do I do good? Or I don't feel great about what I'm doing every day, my impact on the world, what, what should I look at? Should I work for nonprofit, et cetera, et cetera. So I say this, I the best piece of advice I've ever gotten, number one, is take all advice with a grain of salt, like, understand where it's coming from. Don't just follow it blindly. But second piece of best piece of advice ever got was stop asking yourself, like, how do I do more good? Or where do I what I want to be in five years? Like, these sort of questions, they're fine questions, but the main question to ask, at least for me, was if you died today, right now, somebody shot you, you're dead. Not their problem, not yours, you're dead. What would instantly, what would make you mad about not accomplishing yet, not doing yet, not being a part of yet. And then you could start to me start working backwards. And so maybe it's impact, maybe it's a hobby you wanted to start, maybe you want to travel more, maybe you want to become a wine expert, but then you can start to set up and look at your life to fulfill that. And so sometimes your job may be and purely an income source, you know, you're, you don't see that they can help you stop trying to find fulfillment in the job. That's probably not that, by the way.

Even if the job is not, you know, like, set the world on fire. Awesome. Being good at your job, being conscientious, delivering and then providing, like, that stuff's awesome. Like, you know, if people just like, I'm trying to think of something like.

Just completely neutral, like, I'm an accountant, you know, Sure. I help people. Like, you know, if you can be.

A good accountant that actually, like, does right by your. Your clients and you can provide for yourself and your family. Because we're at an era too. And this is something I'm very sensitive to is. I mean, I. We talk a whole episode about this. We probably should given, you know, like, some of the experiences you and I've had. So really grateful to Andrew, this questioner, for casting me in this light. And we joked when someone came in the office yesterday, it's like, hey, like, you know, you're going to sit with two guys who've made some objectively rash professional decisions, which. Which we both have.

Yeah.

And. And things have worked out a. Okay. But when someone comes to me and is like, hey, like, should I make the same kind of rash decisions you do? I'm just like, shit, I don't know.

Yeah.

In the, in the sense of. Yeah. It's unclear in part. One of the things I would push people to do is like, look, if you can kick ass at what you are doing, that is a win. If you can kick ass at providing, that's a win. And my perspective has shifted too, as I've gone through life stages because I don't know what Andrew's personal situation is, but when I didn't have anyone to provide for aside from myself, it's like, screw it. I take a risk. It doesn't work. Like, whatever. What's going to happen? And by the way, some of that stuff did not work out. And so. But it's like, I know when to provide for myself. Like, my Asian parents were like, what's the matter with you? I'm like, yeah, whatever. It'll be fine. I'll figure it out. So that's, you know, I didn't meet Evelyn to. I was 31, so I could take risks until I was 31 up the wazoo. I got married. I was 36. And then, you know, and then, like, I was continuing to swing away. And I can swing away now. I consider what we're doing now with noble, like a very worthy swing and we're trying to take on, like, a very significant problem, but, like, now I've got a lot I could fall back on. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Whether that's name or some money or whatever the hell. Yeah. You've, like, there's been.

Where's.

The benefit's a crazy risk. I mean, you don't get the benefits.

And that's one thing, like, I will say, like, I kind of push myself on and pride myself on is like, oh, are you going? Because I know a lot of successful people that become kind of lame dilettantes after they get to a certain level of success. Like, you very seldom see someone and be like, oh, I made, like, you know, like 10 million. I'm not bet at all on this thing. Like, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? And then, of course, on one level, you shouldn't, like, you know, your exit.

Yeah.

But on the flip side, it's like, what are you doing? You know, it's like, if you are. And so I really, you know, come to grips being saying like, look, if I still consider myself like a capital R, capital P, like real person, like, I should be exerting myself, trying, putting enough at risk so it's gonna hurt if I fail and not just be one of these guys, like, you know, opining from a perch like, you know, I hate that shit.

Yeah, but that's how you're wired. You know what I mean? Like, that's right for you. I think there's.

Yeah, and that's one of the points is, like, is that people have to calibrate and figure out, like, you know, the level of swing they can take, the level of risk. And the thing that pains me, too, Zach, is that, like, I came of age at a time, too. I was like, look, it's going to work out. Shit's going to work out. But, you know, I would say objectively, this is going to be a very weird, shitty time economically for a lot of people. Like, AI is going to show up and be like, yeah, your department's gone. What the fuck do I do now? You have an administration, for example, that, like, you know, might expunge, you know, an aid program might do. So there are things that, like, you know, there are times when some level of risk aversion is appropriate, I suppose. I mean, I met with some guys at Ford yesterday, and then they were talking about, you know, how the federal government now is like, you know, like, going through an enemy's list and like, da, da, da. Like, some of those people so like, like there are things that are happening that you're just like, you know, like I can understand if someone is like, like maybe certain risks are not like mind to take at like a certain point in time. Like, you know, you gotta, you gotta respect it.

Yeah. I think I have a friend that in his 20s, started a company, did pretty well, like made a little bit of money. Now he just like sits on boards and he joke with me. He's like, the goal of starting a private company is a cash out. Like you can't get me a part of my cash. He sits on boards and like advises and he's happy. That's what he's doing now. He's not taking more swings. He's good. I don't think that's right or wrong. That's him. You know what I mean? You are something that. I was successful in this great. Now what else can I take a risk on the average person? Like I'm working at a job, it's fine, maybe I'm good at it, maybe the money's okay, it's fine. But they're like, I maybe want more out of my life, etc. And that's, that's a hard spot to be in.

Yeah. Especially if you have real responsibility.

And the other one is like, I think people should take risks, particularly in their 20s and as young as they can before, to your point. And like sometimes you take that risk, it doesn't work out. And your resume, your skills might be higher, like you've learned more than you ever could have learned another job. But your resume is worse because you've worked at a, you know, a flop of a company, I bet. You know, I get it. And so it's tough to, it's tough to broadly give advice here because it's different for everybody. And that's probably the best way to go. You got to do what's right for you.

Yeah. Though we, we have gone down like a slightly different. Because Andrew I think had like a narrower question maybe than what we just answered, but it sounds like he is.

Spending his time like he's do you're doing stuff that's pretty good, Andrew. And I would say like it sounds awesome. What's the, it's the, the, the rock climber things like what's my five foot radius? What's my five foot world? Like what can I take care of that? I can actually, when you're climbing a mountain and you're freaking out, you're like, I don't know where to go or like rock Climbing. All you can handle is your five foot radius. You can only take one step around you. And I think that's pretty good advice too. It's like you got to do what's good for you and what you can do right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If, if you're, if you're excelling in a position, it doesn't need to be the perfect position.

Yes.

And there, there are lots of ways to do good, either personally or professionally, from lots of different places.

Yeah.

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Thank you for that question. Deep question. Let's keep going, buddy. Okay, here we go. Hi, Andrew and Zach. This question's from Faye. Thank you, Faye. Appreciate you. And she's got a photo of here in a Yang 2020 shirt and you at one of our. Looks like the same, I'm going to guess, San Francisco rally. Not sure. Long time listener here. Your episode questioning the value of billionaires in space and in the broader critique of whether that capital solves real human problems really stuck with me. You pointed out that we put hundreds of millions into issues like hunger without a solution, yet high risk space ventures get funded. This framed a question I've been wrestling with. My girlfriend is at a startup working on a high risk, high reward technology. Autonomous robots for lunar construction. Fucking cool. Sorry. Anyway, this research could allow humanity to build more efficiently and safely both here and on the moon. Very cool. My question is, how do we as a society define which high risk frontier technologies are worth the investment versus those that are merely vanity projects? Good question. What is the principle that separates a, quote, moonshot, unquote, that benefits humanity from the misallocation of capital in the face of pressing earthly needs? And how can we make sure we are putting humanity first in these initiatives, including space exploration? Love to hear your perspective, Bess. Faye. Thank you. Faye. Great question. I love this shit. I love asking you shit like this. What do you think?

First, her girlfriend's company sounds awesome. I agree with you. I mean, you know, if you had like autonomous building robots on the moon, it sounds like it would work. Remote part of the US work all.

Over the Mariana's Trench, like who knows what you're doing.

Yeah, pressure like that.

But you know I'm saying.

And so you know, I have mixed Perspective on, let's say, I mean, you know, the obvious ones are Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. It's like, hey, I'm worth tens or hundreds of billions of dollars. What can I do? That's that no one else is doing that could advance civil civilizational technology and you know, like maybe human existence, like go to Mars, go to space. And on one level you're like, oh, wouldn't it be better if fed everybody? We fed everyone. Or the government is doing this. And then on the other hand, the government has just become so piss poor at this. So that there was like a thing about how like X generations ago the geniuses were all working for the federal government in some of these facilities. And then fast forward, they're probably all working at either Blue Origin or SpaceX.

There's still plenty of extremely talented people in the government, but it's few and far between the way it was back in the space race or wherever it was.

So the resources that are going in that direction do often throw off innovations. You had some examples that people developed the jaws of life and tang and.

Like spaces led to many innovations. You know, it's like, and, and I would say this, and I think you agree is like when you're shooting, it's like the quote, what is like you shoot for the moon, you end up in the stars. Like when you start you're trying to push the envelope on one thing in space in particular, we end up solving a whole bunch of other technical problems in the process.

Because you have all these problems you didn't foresee. You're like, oh, how are we going to do this? How are we going to do that?

Yeah.

So I'm like, there are worse things you could spend your money on than cutting edge tech in space exploration because there will be advances that benefit a lot of people more broadly. And at the same time, I think there was probably the quote that is being referred to. If there are corporeal earthly problems right around me that involve human beings, I'm personally drawn to those. But I do think that I'm actually glad that there are some people taking shots at building settlements on the moon, as your girlfriend's company is, or trying to get us to another planet that could sustain human life in case we screw up this one. Because I mean, honestly, the odds of our screwing up this one are quite material, shall we say. So the fact that, that this is driven by individuals and not governments in society makes me sad. If you had like an enlightened society, they could be like, hey, Guys, we're going to do this. We're going to that be like, yeah, that'd be great. You know, and there's been this massive void that then has gotten filled by billionaires with their idiosyncrasies and egos and the rest of it. But as you can tell, like I'm, I'm fairly positive on just about every frontier tech investment I've seen because you learn things like there's almost no way you won't learn something. And sometimes those benefits will redound to people who have nothing to do with like that industry, that company.

I'm curious. My gut says I'd rather have space exploration than excessive spending on the military, which is where a lot of our tech innovations come from. Like gps, for example, was a military government investment. And now you go from GPS in our xyz, Satcom things in the military to now it's in children's toys. You know, like the types of that tech trickles down to the consumer sometimes. My opinion, I'm curious thoughts like I just think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Like we should be able to invest in technology and reap the benefits from all that and we should be able to invest in improving our government so that people aren't hungry or mainly education, health care, housing are like, like at least on par with with the rest of the world.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean I've always been an enlightened self interest guy where it's like, look like taking care of people makes it a lot easier to innovate because if you don't take care of people, eventually they're going to be like, what the hell is going on over there? And then they'll be like, how are you? That's been my attitude.

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The last question I have is from Matt and it's one that we could probably talk about a whole podcast. Maybe we'll someday Questions on billionaires and Christianity. Quoting from the Bible, Matthew 6. 24 says, no one can serve two masters. Either you hate the one and love the other, or you'll be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. So Matthew says. Some argue that extreme concentrated wealth, that of billionaires, is antithetical to Jesus gospel. Others see no conflicts, suggesting that when used for good, the ends justify the means. How does Andrew, how does your faith and community inform your beliefs on this subject? How do you understand Jesus's words here in the modern context of extreme wealth inequality? And what actions might they point to? Damn, Matt, deep question. I love talking about faith in modern society, so I'm curious.

Thoughts? Yeah, I think there was another Bible quote about, you know, it's easier for something very difficult to happen than for a rich man to get to heaven.

Camel go through the eye of the needle.

Yeah.

Rich man go to heaven. Yeah.

Yeah. And so that, that made me think. I was like, wow, it makes it sound like it's very hard to be moral and rich. Yeah.

More powerful.

And then I thought about it because I do know some rich people. And that I will say for a lot of my upbringing, I had a chip on my shoulder against rich people because I was the child of immigrants and, you know, like, we, we were very scrappy. And then I went to a boarding school where some of the families were rich. And I was like, oh, look at these fucking toolboxes. And yeah, like, you know, I felt. And then. And then I went to, you know, Brown, which had a lot of rich people like you probably surrounded by exorcist. Pretty much. I went to schools that were, Were filled with.

Yeah.

With rich people. And. And then I had a massive chip in my shoulder being like, I'm as good as any of these people. Like, you know, I'm smarter than. Frankly, I was smarter than most of them.

Yeah. So it was, it was like annoyingly so.

And so as I go, I'm going to prove myself. And then. And then when I left the law firm, I was like, I'm going to prove myself as an entrepreneur. So the flops hurt because I was an unsuccessful entrepreneur for.

And you're seeing the rich kids for.

A stretch of years. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I was, like, very fired up. And that righteousness fueled me through starting Venture for America and running for president. And, like, I was like, very, very fired up around some of, like, the inequities. And so I kind of. I mean, I instinctively agree with the thrust of these Bible quotes. I think that money in a person's hands gets much, much less useful after a certain dollar. You know, Like, I think there are even studies to this effect. And this is one reason why I'm. I'm naturally like, hey, spread. Spread the good. Spread the wealth, Spread the love. You know, I wrote. I mean, this is Fastile, but I wrote a newsletter about tipping really well the other day, which I tried to do, and it's actually really well. Oh, thanks.

It makes me. But I'm like, oh, shit.

But, but, but the tipping well thing is, like, is not really getting to the vein of this question because, like, if I was a billionaire, I could tip well, but it would be, like, totally immaterial to, like, my actual money.

Yeah.

And so then the question, which. I'm not a billionaire, obviously, everyone knows that.

But like your finance public, brother.

But if I. But if I was a billionaire, I mean, you know, some people still think. Still think weird things.

I wish this campaign would have a lot more money flying around a jet instead of the van I'm driving.

So, so and so in many ways, like, what the Bible quote suggests is like, if you had a billion dollars and you were godly, you would look up and say, well, shoot, like, let me give most of this away. And then, you know, I'll have less than a billion and then the money will go around in various ways. No, that's not common practice among billionaires. If it were, I think the world would be a better place. I do.

Most likely.

Yeah. And in the world we live in, I've seen some billionaires use their wealth in directions that I kind of enjoy and like. And then I've seen probably many, many more where I was like, I was not that enamored with it. Now, I don't know if that. That answers the question, but I do think there is a tug of war in the spirit about money and material possessions and not making too much of them.

Yeah.

I think that, you know, like, if you could take away a lot of my stuff and I honestly wouldn't care, but, But I will say that changes somewhat in the family context. Like, I used to Joke about myself as an Asian cockroach because I just didn't care. But then when you have a wife and kids, then all of a sudden it's like, yeah, I'd be like, I'll survive anything. Doesn't matter. Just give me some protein powder. I'll like, you know, but. But then, but then, you know, you have families with needs and the rest.

Of it, and you're human. You know, you start to like certain things in the lifestyle and then things.

Like that, you know, like, I'm still wired such that, like, you know, I don't know.

You're pretty easy, right?

Or just like, if I do find myself indulging and getting soft in my own mind, it's like, oh, man, I'm getting soft.

It's like, you're weird. You're, like, sort of irrationally generous at times. And it's wonderful. People like being around you, I'll say. A lot of experience in dealing with spending time around the wealthy. Right? I did this for years on Wall street, and, and I knew this as a kid, and I lived it. Now, I think money is. It's not particularly good or bad. It's a magnifier. So you guys have the ability to do more when you have more money. So if you're generous, if you're a generous person, you have a lot of money, you're going to be more generous. That's what's going to happen. But if you're a prick, you're going to be more of a prick when you have more money. And so what, what, what happens is, like, billionaires are actually human beings, and so their human traits, good and bad, get magnified. So it's, it's. Even the good ones, like, their flaws are sort of magnified in this lane, too. So you see bad things they're doing as well and see good things, I think. And in my experience, I met a ton of wonderful, very rich people and a ton of shitty, very rich people. And sometimes they really earn their money. Sometimes they fell into it. Sometimes it's a hybrid. Most times a hybrid, I think. You know, I grew up, I played a lot of hockey growing up. And it's a version of a rich kid sport. It's not tennis or golf, but it's right there. And I remember the kids had all these, like, sick Bauer hockey helmets that, like, made your head look cool. And, you know, we had, I had the Play it again sports version of, like, this. I remember as a ccm, like, literally a bucket on your head, and I looked like an idiot. And I hated it. Right. That's what you go forward and, like, to your point of, like, chip on your shoulder. Sure. Right. Does that mean. Does that make the rich kid, like, evil or bad? No, it could because they have the.

I think money's a magnifier, but I also think it does kind of prey on your weaknesses, whatever they are.

It'll magnify that weakness. Right. And it's like, if you got a vice and you're really rich, like, that vice is gonna get worse. You know, you may share it with others. You may spread that vice. When you're rich. When you're rich, people follow you. People see you. So your example, your flaws are on display for others. That's worse, you know?

Yeah. But thank you for the question, though. I mean, it's something that I struggle with, both personally and also, like, I'm around a really rich person. Typically when I'm around a really rich person, I will confess to you all, I'm, like, trying to get their money. Money from them to do something.

It's true, man.

Yeah. Yeah. And so then it's like, you know, donate to humanity. 4. Donate to Forward. Donate to Faribault. Donate to something. And so as a consequence, you can imagine I, like, tend to be pretty nice to them because it's like, you know, like, how else am I going to get them to take some of their money and donate it to something? So I'm around people a lot, and I like. I'm. I have goodwill towards them.

Yeah, well, you make a good point, though. Like, if you're that rich, it's very difficult to hide it. So most people know. And what happens then? They ask you for money. So these people getting asked for money all the time, and that actually starts to warp someone in a way. So that's actually your point. Like, the money itself will mo money more problems. Like, it actually does start to cause and skew you a certain way.

That's why they should give it all away. Give it do what? To whatever the heck. What a question. Favorite.

I love that stuff. And we could talk about faith and other things and purpose all day. Let me. Let's. Let's close at this, man. Like what? Maybe it's Noble Mobile, which I'm like, what's exciting you right now? What's. Let's leave on a high note. What are you getting excited about this week for the next episode?

Yeah, it really is Noble Mobile. I mean, I'm saving over 1,000 bucks a year. The average American would say 500 bucks a year plus log off, touch grass and feel a little bit better about things. If you're on one of the big carriers, this really would be an upgrade. And by the way, like, you know, people listening to this were like, you know, it sounds like it might be good, but it's like a pain to switch and the rest of it, it might take you only five to 10 minutes. You don't have to talk to Verizon or AT&T or T MO, they just, it's like just a setting on your phone. That's something that you don't realize until you do it. The other thing is that people are worried about, oh, what if the coverage isn't great? What if it doesn't work? We'll give you your money back and your old carrier will probably cut you a crazy deal. So if you're stressed about money right now, this genuinely is a way you can probably save yourself hundreds of dollars right off the get, whether it's with us or another carrier. Because I, you know, but if you're paying anywhere close to 60, 70, 80, 90, $100 and the average American is paying 83, I was paying well over that.

Yeah.

Then you really should check out Noble Mobile and keep more your money and keep more your sanity.

Yeah, honestly, I've been feeling great since I switched.

Yeah, it really is. It's like an awesome product.

If I find myself doom scrolling, I'm like, I probably should do that. Yeah, it's a nice little back of the mind thing. Like, oh, yeah, I should do that same.

I mean, if I can get money back at the end of the month, everyone listening to this definitely can. Because unfortunately I'm on my phone quite a lot and you know, I'm like, like I consider myself example.

You probably cut your data use in half, honestly.

Yeah, we'll see right now. We'll see at the end of the month. We'll see at the end of the month.

That's true.

I mean, we'll see how it goes.

I mean, for sure. Anyway, we love you guys.

Thank you guys. Appreciate you. All.

Right, Sam.