What Would You Do If You Were Truly Free with Joe Polish and Dan Sullivan - 10xTalk Episode #243

Where do you personally, as entrepreneur, as owner of the company, where do you want to be freed up so that you can do things that you're not able to do now and have a clear picture of your mind of if you were freed up, let's say in a week you got 10 extra hours back. Let's just use, you know, you have 10 hours back that you don't have now and you can count on those 10 hours. For the next year, you know, you're talking about 500 hours. If you had 500 hours back for the next year, what would you do with those 500 hours? Okay. Because a lot of entrepreneurs are depending on their team at a certain point to tell the entrepreneur what the entrepreneur should be doing. It's not their job to tell you what you should be doing if you were freed up. So I think that's the big thing. And you have to be committed to that. You have to be committed to getting those 500 hours.

If you'd like to join world-renowned entrepreneurs at the next Genius Network event or want to learn more about Genius Network, go to www.geniusnetwork.com. Hello, this is Joe Polish and this is Dan Sullivan and welcome to 10X Talk. And so this is a continuation of the last episode. You can listen to this episode as a standalone or If you want to get some other context, you can listen to the previous episode. The way that we did the last episode was I first talked about how I had just recently interviewed Gino Wickman, who is the author of a book called Traction and Rocket Fuel and The Entrepreneurial Leap and a whole variety of books. He created EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System, ended up selling the company, still has part ownership in it. And he has over 300,000 entrepreneurs throughout the world that currently use the system he created. And he's been in Strategic Coach for almost 3 decades, just like me. And we were talking about Dan Sullivan and about staying in a group even though you become the best in the world. To use Dan's term, if you're an industry transformer, which is you've transformed an industry. And I guess this will sound like me bragging, but Dan is the first one that actually put me on the fact that I transformed an industry when I was helping carpet cleaners. And he wrote a book called Industry Transformers, Dan did, in 2004. And I was interviewed one of those chapters. And I've always loved that, that term because two things. One, it's a title that is edifying and acknowledging industry transformer. Secondly, it's something to actually really frame yourself with. Like, can you be the best in the world or one of the best in the world at what it is you're doing? And so Dan certainly is an industry transformer, the best coach in the world for high-level entrepreneurs, and he's coached more successful entrepreneurs than anyone I know. And when I say coach, There's a lot of people that call themselves coaches. There's a lot of people that write bestselling books. There's lots of people that fill up stadiums of people, you know, jumping up and down like monkeys and, you know, coaching them. But to really sit down and not be in a seminar, but to coach them, I don't know anyone that's done it better and more effectively and has more high-end, truly successful people financially and otherwise than Dan. And in spite of that, Dan still is not too cool for school. He's not only a black belt, but he's never quit practicing, right? And so I say that metaphorically, like if you are really, really skilled at something and you want to continue to learn that skill, you keep doing it. Just like, Dan, you've had a Strategic Coach member, Richard Viguerie, who's now in his 90s. And Richard has been a member of Genius Network, and Richard's very high profile in the political world. And every day he still spends 3 hours every morning reading, for one, because he loves it. And secondly, He's always like, "Yeah, if you're gonna be really the best in the world at something, you gotta study, you gotta learn." And how many people, you know, do not have that attitude? So that's what we kind of touched on and talked about. And you framed it as commitment and being committed to something. I wrote down a line that you said, which is, "You always create the future by commitment." And we talked about commitment. So with that said, Dan, that's my long setup for, I'm gonna ask you some of the questions I asked Gino Wickman. I may do 'em in a different order than I asked him, but one of them is, How do you build systems and structure in a company without becoming a prisoner to them yourself? So I'll frame this by saying you've created a lot of systems and a lot of structure, everything from free days, focus days, buffer days, and a whole variety of tools and great content. So how do you build these sort of things without becoming a prisoner to it and feeling like the structure and the systems are going to somehow restrain your creativity or ambition. I'd love to get your take on that.

Yeah, well, I'm thinking about that right now. It's a great question right now because we're moving into a new mode of Strategic Coach. We're just finishing our 36th year of coaching the program, and I'm starting to get a feel for what this is all about. Yeah, you know, I said, yeah, 36 years of R&D, and there's some clarity about what we're doing right now. So I tell you, and it's really hard for people to understand this, and you don't build a company unless you have other people in the company. And I just want to differentiate between entrepreneurs, I'll put it in quotation mark, who are entrepreneurs and they can make a great deal of money, but they've essentially just created a job for themselves. You know, you got a lot of one person or maybe they have one assistant or something like that, but they've simply created a job for themselves. And I would say the vast majority of people who call themselves entrepreneurs really didn't create a company that has value outside of themselves. You know, that you actually have to have a company because a company is a legal entity. You have to be incorporated to take advantage of the marketplace. You have to have a company. So that really is the beginning of our company when I had a a partner in the business who has capabilities, different capabilities that are equal in impact to mine, but very, very different. But the whole purpose of creating the company is to free up the entrepreneur. Your whole job is to free up the entrepreneur. So any person that you choose to be a member of your company, their skills have to be different from yours because you want to free yourself up from doing activities that you're not very, very good at. And we call this unique ability, that more and more you get very, very clear about what your unique ability is as an entrepreneur. And I'm really good at a number of things. I'm good with concepts. I'm really good with giving ideas to entrepreneurs that immediately simplifies their thinking, clarifies and focuses their thinking. And I'm really good at that. I had enough confidence to get into the entrepreneurial game back in 1974 that I know I have that built-in capability that if you spend a half hour with Dan, your life is going to get simpler, you're going to get much more focused, and you're going to feel more confident about what you're going to do next. And I had that back in 1974, didn't have a structure around it, you know, and I was basically just selling hours. I was just basically selling time to do it. And I did that for 15 years. But I started to introduce what we call thinking tools. And that is that when you take on a new client, you're not starting from scratch. Because after I'd done about 20 clients, I saw a structure that can be repeated. And that was the Strategy Circle. The Strategy Circle was the first tool. And therefore, it's a series of questions that they answer the questions. And as they see their answers, they start getting focused and clear and confident. But, you know, I'm the one who created the structure. So to a certain extent, I'm the one coaching them. And now it's spread to 250 of those tools. Gave us enough in 15 years that I had a structure that we could do it with a room full of people rather than one-on-one. So there's a big multiplier right off the bat. But then there's also sorts of things. How do you put these gatherings together? How do you market them? How do you fill the seats? How do you keep track of the money? Everything else. And this is person after person after person. So, you know, we're at 120 internal team members now in our 36th year. And we have 16 other coaches who are independent entrepreneurs who have their own businesses, but they've been members of the Strategic Coach process for, in some cases, 30 years. And they just like the experience of coaching a room full of people. But the big thing is every person we've brought on freed me up in some way. That's my number one rule. You don't hire someone unless the money that you're paying for that person and the responsibility that you're giving them has to free up the main entrepreneur. And I think where entrepreneurs get trapped, they're taking on greater expense to hire somebody, but they're not getting freed up from the process. Right. That would be my answer to the question. And it happens year after year. The team grows and everything else, but Dan always stays freed up at the center. I'm immensely more freed up now when we have an organization of 120. When it was just myself out there, I wasn't freed up at all. Money comes from being freed up.

I love that. And I remember talking with you a while back and I wanted to see if this is the way that I heard it is accurate or if you would change this in any way because we're talking, I think we're in Chicago. I don't know how many years ago this was, but you had made a comment to me like, you know, the number one job of the people that work for me here is to make Dan happy. And of course I've thought about that a lot because you also have a heavy emphasis on making sure the clients are happy, making sure the team members are happy, developing a unique ability team, utilizing all kinds of different tools and resources in order to do that, creating a self-managing company, multiplication by subtraction, all these different things that you teach at Strategic Coach. Let's say that someone hears this. For one, let me ask you, do you still look at everyone you hired, their number one job is to make Dan happy, or where does that fall into? Let's say they don't make Dan happy, but they make the clients happy. Is that still an investment in a team member you would consider? Like, how do you think about it is what I'm getting at.

Yeah, that's a great question because then you want new people to free up the people who are freeing you up. Okay, so once you've applied the principle to yourself, namely that this person needs more freedom to do what they're really great at, and they've done a great job with you, then you want them to be freed up too. That's why we have a lot of longevity in our company. I mean, we have probably 25 of our 120 team members who are more than 20 years with us because all along as they took on greater responsibility and they had more impact, they were getting freed up by other people. So the same principle that I approach myself, then they have to start approaching it. Look, you seem to be totally scheduled so much that you can't take on new things. So you have to bring people in to free you up so you can start taking on some new things. So that it's a simple principle, but it seems to work. I mean, it's been working for 36 years and we're constantly growing and we give people a lot of power. There's lots of things they don't have to check or anything else because they've done it enough times that they know what high quality looks like. And it's always measured in what's the impact on the entrepreneurial clients who come to the workshops. Do they feel that everything is there in support of them? So when you're in a workshop, you can't be checking your computer, you can't be running in and out and doing other things. You got to be there for, you know, for the entire day. Your job is just to make it a great experience for everybody who comes to the workshop. And if you're being interrupted, that means that you're not freeing yourself up for the most important activity. What happens front stage with the entrepreneurs is the most important activity in the company.

Right. Well, how do you handle a situation where it's reverse delegation, I guess I would say, where you hire someone to free you up or to take things off your plate and that person either out of skill or will ends up bringing more work to you? And how do you approach that? Because very early on, I think almost every entrepreneur suffers from this. And then maybe, you know, it's always depending on, you know, right seat, right person, right fit, new projects, etc. So there's many reasons why that could happen. But then there's the person who gives the illusion of, you know, you're paying them to do work and they are ending up bringing work to you. And that's such a depressing thing to have happen to entrepreneurs.

Yeah, well, you have to be real quick about sizing that up. I wouldn't let it go more than 90 days. There has to be a come-to-Jesus moment. Moment about it was possibly just a bad hire, right? We have bad hire, and that you have to get on top of that really, really fast and say, look, it's been trial and error for you the first 90 days, been trial and error for us. And 90 days is important because in virtually every country there's a no-fault— if you fire someone after 90 days, there's no fault. All the structures of the marketplace, the legal structures, government structures, they have this 90-day no fault thing. It was just a wrong hire. But it may be that they have really good skills, they're just being misapplied in the company. Maybe they should be doing something else in the company besides what they do. And we have all sorts of tests, you know, we have our great system that Kathy Kolbe created. There's Kolbe Profile, which is a wonderful system to really clarify where a person's activities should be. And there's 4 or 5 of them that we use on a consistent basis just to get the person cleared. The 2 things that you can't test for— there's all these profiles and all these tests, but from my experience of 36 years of growing a company, there's 2 things you can't test for. You can't test for character, and you can't test for ambition.

Yeah, yeah.

And the person just may not have a good character, like they're not dependable. You want to check out the system. Maybe they're not dependable because they're not getting the right support. The system isn't right. I mean, it's a conversation, you know, and you try not to make it, you know, a punitive thing. You know, I try not to put the spotlight on the person if something goes wrong. I said, okay, let's take a look at what didn't work here. So is there something missing in our teamwork? Is there something missing in the system? We have 120, but last year I went through and I checked back through the records for the last 35 years at that point. And we've had close to 350 who've been here and who've left. But I would say our biggest mistakes is where we knew something was wrong and didn't act on it.

Yep. I would say the same thing myself. Why is that? Because me and you have spent a lot of time talking about connection and about ambition and everything else in between, right? And oftentimes, I think we are around very successful, ambitious entrepreneurs and we are excited about growth and opportunities. And we're also excited about cutting out cancers that are growth. I was talking with Gino Wickman yesterday about scaling. You know, it's a new buzzword, right? Everyone wants to scale. And I like, you know, one of our Genius Network members, a really ambitious guy running a huge multimillion-dollar business in the garage service space named Tommy Mello. And Tommy talks about nail it before you scale it. And I see a lot of people that haven't nailed anything, but they're trying to scale it. And I spoke at a conference with 160 doctors with my friend, Dr. Nasha Winters, who I actually had her come to the 100K Group and give a great talk. One of the things I mentioned during my conversation with her to all these doctors is, you know, you don't wanna scale cancer. And some people's companies are cancerous demons that they, for whatever reason, thinking they need to scale it, that's like somehow gonna get them to nirvana when in reality they need a foundation. So we'll take this back to people. We have people in your company, you bring them in, you believe in their will or their skill more than it either exists or that they even believe in it themselves. And so you brought someone on, and during the course of the interview or bringing them on, it appeared on all levels they were aligned, that they wanted to help you do things. They had a resume or an interview that just checked all the boxes, said all the right words, and you go into it enthusiastic. And then you find out this person is lacking character or they are, you know, lacking ambition or integrity or whatever, and it's a mess. And you keep at it, you know, and this is the stages I've seen myself go through. And you get to the point where after you've had like a handful of these, you develop some skill and spidey senses to avoid this before it comes in. But I've never yet met someone that they'll say they enjoy it, but I don't think they really do. And well, I shouldn't say I've never met anyone. I've never met anyone I admire that really enjoys firing people, right? So there's always the difficulty with that. Letting someone go, but there's also the compassionate, caring side to where if you know you have a wrong fit person in your company, it ain't helping you and it ain't helping them. And sometimes the most caring, empathetic thing you can do is just tell someone, you know, this is not working out, because a lot of times they will not leave. They will just hang around.

Well, people can't fire themselves.

Yeah.

And I don't see that as a failing on their part. It's just really, really hard to fire yourself, you know. But I do know that every time we've erred on the side side of not bringing it to a head, it's always been really bad. Where we brought it to a head really quickly, it was painful in the moment, but it wasn't painful afterwards.

Yeah. So my question to you is, what have you found the best way to do it? What's the conversation or the pre-conversation? Like, you know, our friend Robert Cialdini has the influence and then the moment before influence he calls pre-suasion. Well, the same thing before you have to remove someone from the company or fire them or ask them to leave or however you set it up, the exit, what do you do either beforehand or how do you actually do it? I don't know if you let anyone go anymore, Danny. Of course, have people in your company that do this as part of who you've hired because we have trained hirers and firers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, they're good at it. Our problem, your problem, my problem, all entrepreneurs' problems is that we're really good salespeople. Right. And salespeople should never be the people hiring someone else because they treat it like a sale.

Yes.

He said yes. He accepted the job. Yeah, exactly.

So funny. Yeah.

I said, yeah. And now you have to unsell him.

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So for one, I think it's a good policy. And Gino said the same thing. He's like, I'm terrible at hiring and firing people. So I have 3 people in my life that have always done it for me.. But in the beginning, you don't have that. You actually have to also hire and often fire the person who ends up becoming the manager or whatever title, pick a freaking role.

I think the other thing to go along with that, not only are we salespeople, but we're leaders and leaders shouldn't be hiring and firing. Managers should be hiring and firing because managers operate at a tactical level. You know, they're more granular. They see Job's not getting done. You know, we've got this job, it has to be done. The job didn't get done. Where we're bouncing things off a bigger future. You know, you and I are always creating ahead of the company a bigger future for the company. Okay. And we're really into let's just keep everybody happy moving in the same direction. But a manager who's really a good manager say, you said you're going to have this done by Friday. You didn't get it done by Friday. You know, they're not bouncing this off a bigger, better future. They're bouncing it off weekly deadlines, monthly deadlines. You know, you have to produce. The other thing is that they know their job is to have things done so they free them up for you so that things are working for you. You know, you don't want to be front stage and be worrying about things that are happening backstage.

Right, right.

Yeah. And the other thing is that I think we think that other people look at things the way that we look at them. Okay. And I'm really for high confidence, high enthusiasm, high ambition. But I've got a dream job. Right, right. I've got a dream job. And I don't like any negativity coming into my dream job. So if it's the chance of creating a new idea that's going to sell more or coming to grips with a person who's not performing, which one are you going to choose that day? The one of creating a new, more exciting future or coming to grips with someone who's not working out right? Yes.

Yes. You have this great line that you used in relationships with your partner, Babs, where you said, I got to the point where I didn't want to work on a relationship. I just wanted a relationship that worked.

Yeah.

So the same thing can be said with team members. It could be said with clients. Certain things require work. You know, you can't ignore something. You can't be dismissive of somebody. You have to create the conditions where they can have success if you expect them to have success. And if you're doing all those to the best of your ability and it's not working, or the person just for whatever reason, it's oil and water, it's a pain in the ass, and you have to have that conversation, how do you approach it? Because I think it's like cancer, you know, early detection and swift removal is always a better policy than letting it go on forever until it's metastasized and now it's an absolute freaking nightmare. And I've been at every stage of it where, you know, early on, first time you start doubting if you made the wrong hire, as you know, Jim Collins, I think is the first person I read about it. You know, the moment you start thinking you've made a mis-tire, you probably have, then you take approaches. So what's the Dan Sullivan approach If there's an entrepreneur, like when you were first starting out, now you've been coaching people personally and in group for what, like 50 years, right?

51.

Yeah, 51 years. And then 36 years ago, you actually started doing group coaching and that's where Strategic Coach started. So you got 50 years at this. You know, if you're talking to different versions of yourself, knowing what you know now, what advice would you offer for people that they have not yet been through it. They haven't been through what you've had to go through. They don't currently have someone on their team that, you know, is the master of hiring and firing. And by the way, I'm asking this a lot for myself too, because I, you know, I still challenge with this every time I try to upgrade my team, you know, I have to determine, you know, are they maintaining or are they growing? Because we both are very ambitious individuals.

Yeah. Well, I'm going to tell you something that we've brought in this year. So this is our 36th year of the company that I think is going to really revolutionize our company. And I think it's going to revolutionize a lot of other people's companies. We're creating a quarterly book called Casting, Not Hiring that you don't see people in terms of job descriptions. You see people in terms of their role in relationship to other people in the company. In other words, you don't take it as an individual thing. You say you're a member of a team and your role in the team is to do this, and everybody else in the team has a role. And it's like theater. So you're using a theater approach. You're putting on a play. Basically, your company is like a play. And, you know, it's got a plot, it's got a script, it's got an audience, and you have to perform in certain ways. And then we have a thinking tool for this, which is called the 4 C's, which is great for hiring. It's got 4 parts to it. One of them is performance. You measure for performance, you measure for results, you measure for being a hero, and you measure for not driving other people crazy. So if you're going to be working with me, you're in a role with me, there's 4 things I require. You have to be alert. You have to be curious, you have to be responsible, and you have to be resourceful. I don't care what you do with the rest of the human race, but when you're with me, this is how you have to be. Okay? Second thing is, in terms of the actual activities that you're doing to produce results, I want to see you from quarter to quarter doing it faster, doing it easier, creating a bigger result, and producing a better quality of the activity that you're doing. Third one is, if you choose, you can be a hero in a certain way where you can go beyond what you're doing, and you have to be committed to developing a new capability that you don't have right now. You have to go through the period of courage to get the new capability. You have to get the new capability, and then you're going to be more confident and you're going to be more valuable to the company. And then the fourth one is don't drive other people crazy. Okay, showing up late drives other people crazy. Not doing what you say you're going to do drives other people crazy. Not finishing what you start drives other people crazy. Not saying please and thank you drives other people crazy. And you may do everything else technically right, but if you drive me crazy, I'm going to fire you.

Yeah. That's a good one. That's a good one.

Now, I'll give you an example. Gord Vickman, who is off stage right now, but he's recording. I hired him on the basis of this tool, and he's been with us since 2017, I think. I think he's in his 8th year now. And I sent it to him before the final decision. He had gone through other stages of talking to other people in our company, and he showed up as the likely candidate.. And I said, now here's what you have to be alert to. You know, there's 16 measurements. I said, this is how you have to be during the first 90 days when you come on the job. And Gord, to his credit, came in. First of all, he really loved getting the sheet before he had ever met me because I was telling him what his relationship had to be with me, not what the job description had. He knows podcasts, he knows production, he knows all that stuff. That's why he got to be the candidate. But I said, this is how you have to relate to me, okay? You got to make me happy and you have to do these things. And he got that. And he came in and he said, well, I'm going on the basis that I have the job and these are the first 10 things that I'm going to get done in the first 6 months. He got them done in the first quarter and we've never had a performance review since then.

Well, well, I love it.

Yeah. So we're introducing this, a major book. It'll be coming out next November.

Is that with Jeff?

With Jeff Madoff? Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah. So that'll be a major book and we're going to have a whole platform, a digital platform for doing this. But starting last January, every one of our team members, the 120 we have at the end of the quarter, if they fill in the sheet for their next quarter, they get $250. At the end of each quarter. So a lot of them are on their fourth quarter right now and they've gotten that money. And then we're going to start developing that economic model that if you're getting better at performance, you're getting better at results, you're a bigger hero to us and you're not driving other people crazy, you're going to get more and more financially rewarded.

That's great. Well, okay, so let's do this. What I'd like to do to wrap up this episode is just get any sort of recommendations that you would have, and then we can carry it on to the next episode to continue to talk about, you know, entrepreneurial ambition and overcoming obstacles and reaching opportunities. Yeah, for the people that are listening to this, I always say any problem in the world can be solved with the right genius network. One great relationship could be the 10 times, maybe 100 times multiplier. For you, but the wrong one from either alignment or whatever could be bad. And one of the things that I wrote down, what fucks us up as entrepreneurs, F-O-C-C, is where we have poor focus, we're disorganized, the communication is poor, and we are not connected to something. So you could have focus, organization, and communication, but if you're not connected to it, that's only going to go so far. So part of it is if someone is fucked up and they're not connected with something, then they have someone in their world that is not making their life easier, not making them happy, is driving them crazy, and they know it, but they haven't been able to bring themselves yet to extract that or have that conversation. We could spend 2 hours just on this sort of subject. I wanted to just get right to it. What's the first action that you would recommend doing at this stage?

Well, I think the big thing is it has to do with time, and that is where do you personally, as entrepreneur, as owner of the company, where do you want to be freed up so that you can do things that you're not able to do now and have a clear picture of your mind— if you were freed up, let's say in a week you got 10 extra hours back. Let's just use, you know, you have 10 hours back that you don't have now, and you can count on those 10 hours for the next year. You know, you're talking about 500 hours. If you had 500 hours back for the next year, what would you do with those 500 hours? Okay, because a lot of entrepreneurs are depending on their team at a certain point to tell the entrepreneur what the entrepreneur should be doing. It's not their job to tell you what you should be doing if you were freed up. So I think that's the big thing. And you have to be committed to that. You have to be committed to getting those 500 hours. Okay. Just give you a little score. In 1994, I was the first coach for the first 5 years. So we started the program in 1989. And at the end of the 5th year, that year I did 144 workshops. All-day workshops, 36 a quarter. Okay. And I was just tapped out. I just didn't have any more time, but I didn't even have time to create because we had such a commitment to just coach what we had already created. And I said, we're going nowhere if I don't keep creating new stuff that keeps people in the program. So we started the process of bringing on other coaches. We started the process of other people designing the workshops for the people that I wasn't coaching. So we did 144 workshops that year and we were making so much money. And this year we did 600 workshops. So 2025, we did 600 workshops and I did 12 of them. 588 of them were done by the other coaches. There's a whole team that brings the coaches in, trains the coaches. Kathy Davis, who you know really well, designs all the workshops. She takes tools that I'm doing and everything else. But at the same time, I'm creating 26 new thinking tools this year. I got freed up, so I'm feeding the system with new content, new material. And that's what I've been able to achieve of just Dan being freed up. You know, our income is— it's more than 10 times. It's about 100 times greater. And yet I feel less busy this year than I did the year I coached 144, I was really busy. Okay. So the big thing is that you have to be committed to growth. You have to be committed to getting better. If you were freed up, if your time is not freed up, you can't free yourself up. Time is everything. So you got to keep doing it.

So let me know if this is a fair answer to it then. So what I'm really hearing you say is you just got to look at your time. You got to look at what produces results and what's going to free you up. It's less about if you don't have that attitude and that understanding of— well, I call it TAMIE, you know, your time, attention, money, effort, and energy. You know, if your TAMIE is not being protected, you have no time to create. And it's very similar to what you said, which was a real big— when I took my 1-year sabbatical in 2021, I constantly played in my head, you know, entrepreneurs that are too tightly scheduled cannot transform themselves.. And so that's what I hear you saying. And what I would like to bring into the next episode is your line, getting results doesn't take time. It's the not getting results that takes your time. And we will start with that. And so that's all I have to say for now. Anything else, Dan, on this?

It's neat to look back and what the progression is. To give you an idea, in 1994, our top clients were paying us $3,000 a year for the program, and our top clients are paying us $50,000 for the program now, right? And then all the other coaches are bringing in all the other money. So, you know, people say, well, it's not about money. I said, well, of course it's about money. You have to speak the language that the world understands, and money is the language that the world understands, and your team understands because it guarantees their job. Otherwise, be a social worker and save people's souls.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One of the best ways to help the poor is to not be one of them. That's one. And the other is, you know, if you say money's not important, try living without it. Third is people that say money can't buy happiness haven't probably given enough of it away or deployed it in ways, because I think both me and you buy happiness all the time. And it is a servant. If it becomes a master, if I would've had a boatload of money when I was a drug addict, I would've not deployed that money in proper ways, it would've probably destroyed my life. So there's a context of how one interacts with money, but I never poo-poo money because it is the language. It is how you measure if you're doing well in a successful business is solving problems for a profit. And so you gotta be able to make a profit. So thank you, Dan, and we'll see you on the next episode of 10X Talk and share this with anyone that's entrepreneurial that you feel would benefit from hearing it. And we will talk to you on the next episode.

Thanks, Joe.

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