What's In It For Them Ambition & Agency with Joe Polish and Dan Sullivan - 10xTalk Episode #240

When people love the idea of building a successful business, but they haven't yet got there yet, it's because they're what you call, you know, their unique ability. They're not utilizing or using or even understanding that they have a unique ability. And you have this concept when someone first joins Strategic Coach called ceiling of complexity, where you're working but you know you can't work any harder, you're butting up against it and you need to figure out how to better leverage yourself and better deploy your unique ability. And then you have all of these concept. So you help ambitious workaholics driven entrepreneurs find some level of peace in their existence.

Or the AA for workaholics.

Oh, totally, totally. And it's like a metal detector where it's like, okay, it's like, where is your unique ability being deployed? Where you're getting results versus where you're wasting all your time. If you'd like to join world renowned entrepreneurs at the next Genius Network event or want to learn more about Genius network, go to www.gienstruitnetwork.com.

Hello, this is Joe Polish and this is Dan Sullivan.

And here we are. We are live in the studio here.

In Toronto, right next to Strategic Coach.

Here, where I did a strategic coach session earlier this week. And we've been hanging out. And so we've got a really unique 10x talk that we're going to do on this session. And we're also going to probably do another episod, what we're going to talk about today. And just to give everyone some context, me and Dan were just talking about what we were going to talk about. And we then decided, let's just start rolling here because we're talking. We're talking, right? And we're going to share with you something we've been presented with from Hay House. And we were on a Zoom a couple days ago with their team wanting us to do these audio originals is what they're called together. And they're going over different ideas on how we could script these. And what's funny is, Dan, you said we don't script things and we have books that we've written. And of course anyone listening can go buy our books on Amazon or wherever books are sold or download the audiobook version of that. We certainly have those where we're having our own books. But that being said, this is a little different. However, they wanted some structure on what are we gonna call it? What are we gonna talk about? And we're like, well, let's just do a couple of episodes and share with our 10x Talk subscribers and listeners how we go about doing stuff that we do. Because it may be a couple of things. One, I think what we're gonna share might hopefully be useful to you in your own lives and in your own businesses. But secondly, it'll give you a little bit of backstage into how me and Dan think about doing stuff and what, if any, preparation is done. And I'll tell you from this one, Dan is the one that did all the preparation because I flew here from Arizona and Dan filled out one of his tools, which he calls the fast filter. And he did it on both different topics that we're gonna talk about. So I think depending on this episode, we might do one episode on one topic and then another TEDx Talk episode and we're doing it in the studio. So it's like, how do you record podcasts? Sometimes we do it over zoom, sometimes we do it in person. Sometimes we'll do two or three episodes at the same day. Other times we'll do, you know, depending on what our schedule's like, that's what's going on. And so Dan, I'll turn it over to you and have you give any other context or framing. And then I'd love for you to read what it is that you wrote down that is a jumping off point for us and then we'll have that discussion.

Yeah, I should say that we're in a studio called Jam and Jam is a big post production recording studio here in Toronto and Toronto's a huge post production. And what I mean by that, depending on what the relationship of the Canadian dollar and the US dollar are to each other, all the American studios, there's a big differential. So today the American dollar is worth about $1.35 in Canada. So when that happens, the studios in the United States move their post production work to Toronto. Because you can buy a dollar's worth of studio in for just as much as America, but you're getting an extra 35 cents on a dollar.

Right.

So this is a top studio. They do an enormous amount of work. And about a year ago we had a flood. We have really good studios in Strategic Coach and the city water main broke and it just destroyed the studio. It was a top notch studio. It was rented, one of the number one studios and we had taken it over because it was at a time when the dollar was even. They went bankrupt and we picked up the studio for $11 a square foot because what do you do with a studio, you know, and it was a great Studio. But now we got all the money, we got the insurance money and everything. And now we're going to have really amazing studios. But during this interim, we're doing it with jam. But I have my audio engineers here, I got my podcast manager here. So we're off to do it. But just recently in Coach, we're working on an idea. Two concepts that we're putting together. And the first concept is ambition. What is really ambition for entrepreneurs. And the second one is agency. And these two words go together. Ambition. From my standpoint, ambition is the capability that enables you to create all sorts of other capabilities. It's sort of like a platform, but agency is having the freedom to the independence to actually make your own decisions, have your own goals, have your own actions. So what I thought it would be neat because Joe has a great book that's called what's in it for Them. So when you think about growing your business, the first thing to get in contact with is what's in it for Them. And then we have a second book, which is a strategic coach book. And this book came about because Joe introduced Ben Hardy to me. Ben, great writer, top notch Medium writer. When he joined us, Joe wrote for.

Medium, not like he was Medium of the Road, but. You mean medium.com.

Yeah, yeah, he was sort of a medium. Sort of a medium. And at one of the Genius Network, one of the 100k meetings, we got introduced, Ben said, you don't write big books. You write a lot of little books, but you don't write big books. But he said, if you were ever interested in writing a big book, I'd like to partner up with you. And Joe happened to have the president of Hay House at the meeting and he had Tucker, Max Tucker, great, great genius at putting writers in touch with the right publisher, publishing themselves. And so we wrote three books. We wrote one called who Not How. We wrote one called the Gap and the Gain. And we wrote one that we're focusing on today, which is called 10 times is easier than 2 times. So when I was thinking about it, because I knew I had to do the preparation because Joe wasn't going to do it, I said, why don't we take the concept of ambition and agency and apply it to what's in it for them? So that's the first one we're going to do, and if we have time, we'll do the other one. But we're doing this to show Hay House how we would talk about things. And so we're doing what is our normal 10 times talk but we're applying it to as first time I've ever been in a situation where two books were focused on, but they were integrated with some new concepts to see how what's in it for them. And ten times is easier than two times fit together.

Right? Right. And they love the idea too. So when we were talking with them the other day, we presented, hey, we're gonna do this. And also, like, this helps serve as a teen up in a setup for when these audio originals come out, because we're talking about them. So one of the things, people often try to keep their ideas secret. And you know, look, I guess if you have a special formula or you don't trust yourself enough that you're ever gonna release it, and if you start talking about it, then you decide to back out or whatever, then you might put yourself in a situation by mentioning things. However, I'm very much a believer in the more you tell, the more you sell. And so if you're going to share something that's useful with the world, they often like to see how you make the sausage. Right. And so what we're talking about here is how we end up coming up with ideas and how things are assembled and put together, because it's all about creativity. And you have to practice and put your ideas out into the marketplace and see how people respond to them. And I think both Dan and I, I mean, I'll speak for myself. I had read this Peter Drucker book called Managing Oneself, and I remember him writing the book that some people learn by reading, some people learn by listening, other people learn by talking. And I definitely figure things out in my head through discussions and through talking about them because we're able to play ping pong together. And it's just what happens when you sit down with another creative individual, which is entrepreneurism. Right. It is like talking about things and creating something. And so Dan, he has a whole program called Free Zone Frontier, which I was just at on Monday. And it's about collaborations. And so what me and Dan, aside from doing a podcast and being in each other's programs, we collaborate and we bring other people together. And this 10x talk is a collaboration.

Now I just took what's in it for them and I said, let's just give an overview what we're doing. And I'm just going to read a paragraph here that I wrote and what's in it for them. Joe Polish redefines ambition by shifting your focus to helping others succeed first. Your own success follows naturally. You take agency. That's taking independent action, thinking about things independently, creatively. You take agency by by actively identifying and easing others challenges instead of waiting for the chances to connect. So you're proactive, not reactive. Building authentic, non transactional relationships leads to lasting impact and fulfillment. The book offers nine practical principles that guide you to take responsibility for the depth and the quality of your connections. When you consistently ask what's in it for them, you spark a powerful ripple effect of positive change. You shape your network, you shape your future. Ambition and agency combined create unstoppable momentum. So the big thing is that you kind of have to go 100% with this Joe. You can't do it halfway, right? What's halfway?

If you vacillate between what's in it for me, what's in it for them? I mean, then you're a taker, you're a giver, You're a taker, you're a giver. You're using giving as a form of maybe manipulating someone. It's unintegrated. If you're kind of halfway, you haven't yet integrated it. It's kind of being half pregnant. I mean, it doesn't really work that well. So yeah, I mean it's a behavior, it's a mindset.

How'd I do, by the way?

Did you think, no, this is great. Yeah.

Did I do a good job?

Dan, on a scale of 1 to 10, it's about. It's hard to say. It's always a 10. Cause you could always maybe do. No, it's fantastic. This is great. Here's what's interesting. We'll get to it. It's a little bit of a setup. This tool has the name of the project. So you wrote Joe and Dan, transforming what's in it for them from standpoint of ambition and agency. And then you put the date and then you put the best result. Then there's the worst result and there's the success criteria. So all that you've read so far is the best result. And so what I would say to this, the book offers nine practical principles that guide you to take responsibility for the depth and quality of your connection. So my book, what's in it for Them? It goes through the magic rapport formula. And that magic rapport formula originally was defined by a friend of mine. And we talk about her in the book that her first name's Fabian. And she had interviewed me, I think it was 2009, 2010, a long time ago. And she was just asking me, how do you build rapport with people how do you develop connections with people? How is it that you know all these people and people often think that I go out to cocktail parties and meet people. I'm this extrovert that likes schmoozing, and I actually don't like any of that. It makes me uncomfortable, as a matter of fact, going to a party that I don't know people. When I was a drug addict early on, I was probably a drug addict because I was so uncomfortable in those situations. I had to debrieate myself in order to feel like, how do I socialize in these sort of situations? So, you know, based on the strength finder, which is one of the tools you guys utilize in strategic coach. One of mine is significance. I don't like small talk. I'm no good at it. I'm not terrible. I could sort of get myself through things, and I'm not going into massive social anxiety. However, I have anxiety when I go those things. So I've had to think about how do I actually make connections with people. And part of it is I look for their pain. I have a high sensitivity of being able to notice when someone needs something or is uncomfortable. If you go to the five love languages, you know, acts of service, gifts, I'm really good at doing that. Right. It's one of the ways that I help people is I will acknowledge them. So what I am is I'm an edifier of ideas and people and concepts and movements that I think are significant. You know, I'm not going to get super excited about if someone came to me and said, we have a company that sells tires. I love tires. I use tires every day because I drive a car, right? I get in cars that have tires are very important to humanity, right? These things called wheels and tires. I don't get all like, let me figure out how to sell tires. You know, it's not going to excite me, but there's a lot of things that I do that I consider significant. Let's take you as an example. So I'm the highest referring person in the world to strategic coach. Well, why would that happen? Why would I do that? Well, for one, Strategic coach helped change my life. Secondly, it's a great program. Third, when I first met you, you were the first expert guru. Even though guru's not the right way to describe you, you would never describe yourself that way. You've never done anything to position yourself as a guru. And both of us think most people that pursue that are kind of a joke. So even though they could have millions of Followers and be pretty impactful. All that being said, you're the first person that I met that was the most congruent to the message that you were talking about, writing about sharing with other people. And so I was like, okay, this is pretty significant. So I start telling other people about it. So I'm an edifier, and I try to be really useful. And so when someone needs something, I don't just be like, oh, I feel sympathy or empathy for that person because they need something. I immediately have this part of me that's like, what's in it for them? What do they want? How can I anticipate? So I'm an edifier, and I'm useful. So one of the ways that I make connections with people is. Is I think you've described this. I'm like the old switchboard operators, where I pull out the connector and I'm like, sitting back there connecting different people. That has nothing to do with being a schmoozer at a cocktail party. It has nothing to do with being really good at socializing. It has to do with my antennas pop out and what's in it for them. And I do it because I like to do it. But what you'll see is I'm also anti that for people that I don't like or things that I don't like. Because if I see something that I think is damaging, if I see people that are full of crap, I actually openly talk about it, right? So I talk very positively about givers, and I talk very negatively about takers, because I think you accomplish more by being a giver and more by being a taker. But now the flip side of this, which we're gonna get to, is you gave me a whole nother perspective with worse result, which I can read this one unless you want to read it.

I can read this one. Yeah.

But to finish up on the previous one, you shape the future. Ambition and agency combined create an unstoppable momentum. So for what's in it for them? My book, the whole purpose of that book, just to give some context, was to give people connection capabilities. That's what most people think they're buying the book for. And they will learn those. Because at the end of every chapter, we give dominoes things that people can do. Most of them are free. It's just how you respond to people, how to position yourself with people, how to do it in a way that's not manipulative but very valuable. And, frankly, just being conscientious. So part of it is making people Aware of stuff. And I also write about what didn't work for me, how I used to not notice. Well, at first I would ignore red flags and I would not even notice yellow flags. But after you get betrayed or screwed or get tied up with unethical people, which. Any person that's a giver, that's going to happen to them. It's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when and how frequent until you get the message and develop your spidey senses. So part of the book is the good things I've done that have helped me, the bad things that have screwed me up and what I've learned in the process and how I could show those to other people. However, the underlying message is not just winning friends and influencing people, it's how to win the right friends and influence the right people. And it's not about capability, it's about character. So what I really want to come out of the book when people read it is that they just spend a little bit or maybe a lot more attention on. It's not what you get, it's how you get it. You know, doing things right versus doing the right things are two different things. And so it's about helping people build character, not just capabilities, and to avoid people that have really powerful capabilities but really shitty characters. So that's it. So that being said, so then you wrote worst result. And this was fascinating when I read this today earlier. Worst result in what's in it for Them Gel polish utterly distorts ambition, tricking you into prioritizing others insatiable demands. Your own success proves perpetually out of reach. You surrender agenda. You surrender agency by endlessly catering to others, perpetually solving their challenges while waiting for a fleeting moment to focus on yourself. This futile attempt at authentic relationships yields only shallow transactional interactions and profound disappointment. The book offers nine utterly impractical principles, trapping you in managing a web of superficial and draining connections. When you constantly ask what's in it, you unleash a chaotic ripple of unmanageable demands and crushing obligations. You warp your network. You cripple your future. Ambition and lost agency combine to create inescapable bitter stagnation. And I had to read that a second time. What the hell are you talking about here? But I was thinking, wow, this is an interesting perspective if you totally deplete yourself or if you try to misuse these principles in the same way that you can have amazing food, but if you gorge yourself with it, it's gonna make you sick. So let Me ask you before I comment, give me your interpretation or the listener's interpretation from you of what that is.

Yeah. Well, one thing I wanted to say, just as a little side note, but you talked about that you hate small talk when you go to parties, but you do like shocking talk.

Oh, no. Yeah, I like bugging people.

I think you said, why don't I do just the opposite? Rather than small talk, why don't I just shock people?

Right.

And you shock them by simply saying, what's going on? You know, everybody's at a party, they don't like the party, and you say, this is a really bad party. A really bad party. But the big thing is that telling the truth about what's actually going on in the moment is phenomenal communication. And in my entire world, personally, I've coached 7,000 entrepreneurs. And you are absolutely, you know, you're in another universe, you're in another solar system. And the speed with which you can get the current situation just focused on what's actually happening. Yeah. Where did that come from?

I guess my mother dying when I was four, being in very painful situations. My father was distraught after my mother died. He never. He never recovered from it. I was a super shy, introverted kid, and I would smile. My father was a locksmith, so he didn't have any daycare or something or anyone to take care of me. And so he would bring me into his locksmith shop. He had this little key shop. And when we lived in, the earliest I can remember, this was in Kerrville, Texas. We had this weird house that was on this road. And the locksmith shop, a little key shop was up front. And. And then our house was connected to the building right on the back. So we, like, lived at where he worked originally, but we moved around every year, two years, my entire childhood, because my father could never settle down anywhere. And he would sit me up on the counter or in that little area, and people would come in to get a key made. And it was very interesting because I was not a happy child. I was actually quite scared. And my father was volatile, not in a super violent way. It was definitely not at all comfortable. It was very frightening for a child, for me speaking for myself. And if I smiled, he would be in a better mood. People would always come in. And if I smiled big enough, people would come in and they would give me a quarter or a dime. Now we're talking. This is in the early 70s, so.

You sort of had the business model down early.

Yeah, it's like if you look happy and Enthusiastic people give you money, even if you're a little kid, you can make them smile. And it was. I think. I think all of this came from survival instinct. I would like to say it was this positive, inspired thing that I learned. But, no, it was a necessity. It was a survival technique. And I just realized that, oh, you could change people by how you look at them, by if you smile, if you get them to feel sorry for you. And part of it, though, if I didn't do that, I would get beat with a whip. I would get spanked, even if I didn't do anything wrong. And it was very difficult. So I think that's kind of as crazy as that sounds. That's where it started. And then over the years, I was not very good at making friends, because every time we make friends and I started to care about someone, we would uproot and have to move to a whole other school. And I cannot tell you how many times I had to go to a new school. I didn't know anyone. I didn't have any friends. And I was, like, scared shitless. And I would get picked on. So I had to just figure out how to navigate continually changing environments that were unpredictable and were often scary. And I didn't have physical strength. I started playing baseball when I was 10 years old, and then I had this sadistic Little League coach in a town called Alpine, Texas, that would force me to hold the baseball bat straight up. I mean, people aren't here in the studio with us, so I'm kind of holding my hands up, and if I just slightly leaned the bat back, I could hit the ball fine. But this coach would force me to hold it straight up and to try to hit. Somehow trying to tell me this was the right form to hit a baseball. I couldn't play the game. And I ended up. I could never hit the ball. And I was the only one that this guy, this coach would do this to, that I can remember. And so I eventually just quit because I couldn't play the game. Then I started getting beat up by the other. Some of the people that were on the team because they were like, you quit. You left us. And I'm just like, no, I didn't leave anyone. I just can't freaking win. So then I ended up hating sports. And so what's interesting is I was not even an obnoxious smartass back then. It actually turned me into, all right, screw this, then. If you're going to try to be nice, if you're going to try to do this Stuff. Just be a smartass. So that's why I think I developed a sense of humor. Because it was too sad to do anything else. I had to find the humor in the situation in order to just functionally get through. And I didn't do that well in my junior high and teenage years because I wasn't a popular kid in school. I wasn't unpopular. I just didn't know how to make myself known. And I started doing drugs. And then when I started getting high, it opened up this part of me that's like, oh, wow. In an inebriated state, I can change my personality. I can have more courage. And my introduction to courage, unfortunately, was not like real courage. It was getting high, augmented courage. Exactly. There was this. Well, God, what was. The band Judas Priest. They have this song, you Got Another Thing Coming. And I remember, like, in the 80s, when that video would play on MTV, they're like. The lyrics was something like real. Stone got me some security. And I remember that lyric because it's like, oh, if you need security and you need confidence, get high. And that's why to this day, Daniel Happy hour people go and get inebriated. People drink alcohol. They're able to say things. And I realize that most humans are walking around scared. They don't know what to do about it. But if they can have some liquid courage, or if they can inebriate themselves and numb themselves out. And it made me realize that we're either in communication or we're trying to escape. And then once you understand, people are either in communication with you and connected or they're trying to get the hell out of there. And I always watch rooms of people, and when I'm talking to someone, I pick up on their energy. Do I feel connected to this person, or am I trying to escape? Do they feel connected to me, or are they trying to escape? And we vacillate between being connected or trying to escape. And with that insight, I was able to be like, okay, what's gonna make them feel more comfortable? It's the same thing when I was a kid trying to smile. Like, I just want people to not feel uncomfortable. So then why do I shock people? Why do I say sarcastic things? It's like, I'm just trying to break the ice. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm trying to just, you know, change someone's state. There's so much bullshit manipulation with gurus of, like, you know, how to change someone's state by just for the sake of changing the state. And people can just do anything to shock someone. You could throw a glass of water in someone's face and change their state. But that's a little, you know, I don't want to throw water in people's faces. I want to metaphorically just get them to, you know, laugh, hopefully. I mean, humor's one of the best ways to do it. And if you don't have humor and someone's really sad, you go right to the truth of the situation, right where the pain is. Let's quit pussyfooting around with it. Let's go right in and let's try to tackle the issue of what's going on. So I can go from complete, ridiculous, immature, and in some cases, vulgar jokes and humor to the most serious life or death situations. Cause that's what I have to deal with with running an addiction recovery foundation. And yeah, so, Joe, you've done a.

Terrific job so far explaining how you personally had to develop these skills simply out of survival. And I guess we're up to late teens when you're doing this. But the actual getting in and understanding what's going on them, how do you see that? What's in it for them? So what do you always know? When you actually connect with the person, the person isn't trying to escape you. Where does your thinking go next? Because it tends to turn very practical at that time, I think.

See, I'm always asking questions. I always leave with questions. And it's usually, what are you into? What are you interested in? What are you trying to solve? What is causing you annoyance? It's almost more of a positive way of misery. Loves company and how people commiserate, complaining about stuff you actually can identify. Gary Chapman. I was talking to him years ago after a talk that he gave, and he said to me, if you want to know what someone's love languages are, listen to what they complain about. Whereas there's this big movement of don't complain, don't complain, don't complain. And there's a way to take almost anything very similar to your strategy circle. All those things that seem to oppose our goals are actually the raw material for achieving them. So I look for the raw ingredients of people's pain and what they're complaining about and ask them questions about what's going on in their life. What do they like? What do they dislike? Even my. My very first marketing tool, the Consumer's Guide to Carpet Cleaning. This was before the Internet. It was seven questions to ask a carpet cleaner before you invite them into your home. Well, why are you Going to invite someone into your home, they don't know who you are, right? So people are like, I don't know if I want to hire a carpet cleaner. They're going to come into my bedroom, they're going to come into my bathroom, they're going to come in everywhere, Right? Because the number one question in all consumers minds is who can I trust? Well, it's the same question in every human's mind, who can I trust? So you can build rapport quickly. Trust takes a little bit more time. But it's like even the marketing tool, the very first marketing tool I used was A Consumer's Guide to Carpet Cleaning. How to avoid for carpet Cleaning rip offs. Well, there are people out there that are trying to get you eight mistakes to avoid. There's mistakes you can make. Well, the same thing. Where are people having pain? Will they talk about it? But oftentimes though, I already know what someone's struggling with. If you just sit and listen to what they're talking about positively, that's what they're interested in. And what are they complaining about? That's what the pain is. And how can I alleviate the pain? How can I enter? And here's the thing too, because we're talking about what's in it for them. And I'm using a lot of I statements. I statements, that's what I do. Every person has a way that they have their antennas up and if you have your what's in it for them? Antennas up. Everybody has their what's in it for me? Antennas up. Because most people do not give a crap about you or about me. They give a crap about themselves until you represent something that appeals to their desires. And so what are the human wants? What do they need solved? What are they struggling with? What's causing them the biggest amount of angst or what are they excited about? And so it's a combination of we're pursuing pleasure, they're trying to avoid pain. And people will do more to avoid pain than they will to gain pleasure. And so why not go for the pain? Why not bring it out? And oftentimes, I mean, look at politics. I mean you kind of have this whole idea of here's what I believe in, here's what I don't. Who happens to share this belief? And people are constantly in an echo chamber unless they actively step out of that echo chamber. So I'm constantly trying to listen to people that have differing beliefs than me so I can better understand how to connect with other people and try to learn what it Is or why they believe what it is they believe in. And it simply starts with questions. Tell me about yourself. Why are you interested in that? What do you hate the most about that sort of thing? What do you love about this? Our friend Chris Voss. Great opener for anyone, like everyone that's listening to this. If you have not tried this, next time you're eating and you see an enthusiastic server, say, what do you love about your job? And the person will just talk. You ask them about your career. What do you do? I'm a nanny. What do you love about being a nanny? They'll just talk. Dan, what do you love about strategic coach? What do you love about entrepreneurship? I mean, the brain cannot avoid a question. And so what do you love? Works better most of the time. If I had to give advice for someone, start with a positive. If for some reason the person's not open to that, then you go to what is the pain? And you can very quickly get to what someone's pain is simply by asking them what do they love or hate about something, even though love is a much more positive way to frame it.

Let me ask a question about what you just said. That if you get them talking about what they really love is one of the reasons why they're in pain is because they're not able to do more of what they love.

Absolutely. And I mean, you verified that because people come to you because they love the idea of running a successful business. Some people have had success. I think the way we define success, like my latest book, it's crowdsourced, is called Winners Find ways, and you're in it. Actually, there's two authors that wrote a book called the Culture Code, but the Culture Code by the French guy, I can't remember his name. When someone in America in, you know, we're in Canada right now, it's not as much as America, but it's similar. Says, what do you do? What they're really asking is, who are you? Because what we do in the United States, what we do in Canada is who we are. It's our identity. And so when people love the idea of building a successful business, but they haven't yet got there yet, it's because they're what you call their unique ability. They're not utilizing or using or even understanding that they have a unique ability. And you have this when someone first joined strategic coach called ceiling of complexity, where you're working, but you can't work any harder, you're butting up against it, and you need to figure out how to Better leverage yourself and better deploy your unique ability. And then you have all of these concepts. So you help ambitious workaholics driven entrepreneurs find some level of peace in their existence.

Or the AA for workaholics.

Oh, totally, totally. And it's like a metal detector where it's like, okay, it's like, where's your unique ability being deployed where you're getting results versus where you're wasting all your time. Right. I mean, I take all of that in today as thinking about everyone has genius. They're just either not using it, they haven't discovered it, or there's some sort of wall between their talent and what it is that they want to do. And I'll say to young people all the time, it's funny, but I say, if I would have known being successful was this much work, I would have stuck with being a loser, because you have a lot of shit to figure out in the very beginning. And. And I spoke yesterday on Zoom in the afternoon yesterday. First time I've ever done this. I was being interviewed by a guy named Ed Cressy, who was homeless, a drug addict, in and out of jail. And now he helps people. He has a thing called incarcerated, where you actually help prisoners, and then when they get out, you help them live productive lives. And so he interviewed me yesterday. And we already take our Genius Network members to prisons before all of the Genius Network meetings, to the women's prison, Perryville Prison in Arizona. And we have a guy, Andre Norman, who, you know, he's a great guy. He spent 14 years in prison. And we'll take our members to the prison so that they can actually see people in real serious pain, suffering with the consequences of their decisions. And I'll tell you, I think it really helps people get in touch with being empathetic and being grateful by seeing the contrast. And so I spoke to these 200 prisoners that were watching. This is what they told me, because I could see a lot of them, and they're all in orange jumpsuits. I mean, I have a screenshot of this, and it's me talking to them, being interviewed by Ed for about half an hour. Then I did Q and A with the people that were there. And I even said that, you know, if I would have known being successful is this much work. I was stuck with being a loser, and they all completely cracked up because they're in prison, but they can relate. I mean, people will freaking commit crimes for money. People will do a lot of negative stuff out of desperation. But, you know, to practice anything that I'm saying go to a 12 step meeting. Go volunteer at a homeless shelter. If you have an opportunity to go into a prison, that will often do more for you just by seeing the perspective. You want to be more of a giver. Actually, go out and be a giver. Go out and do it. Don't just read books about it. Literally go out and do things for people. But to your point, coming back to this worst result, here's my interpretation of this, and tell me if I'm accurate. Here you say utterly distorts ambition, tricking you into prioritizing others insatiable demands. Your own success proves perpetually out of reach. You surrender agency by endlessly catering to others. So when you said that, I started thinking, I'm reading this like, okay, what the hell is Dan trying to tell me here? Or trying to say here? Perpetually solving their challenges while waiting for a fleeting moment to focus on yourself. This futile attempt at authentic relationships in authentic, you put in quotes, yields only shallow transactional interactions and profound disappointment. The book offers nine utterly impractical principles, trapping you into managing a web of superficial and draining connections. When you constantly ask, what's in it for them, you unleash a chaotic ripple of unmanageable demands and crushing obligations. You warp your network. You cripple your future. Ambition and loss agency combine to create an inescapable bitter stagnation. I guess the way to say it is, let's say that you're a guy. You really think you are the best person for this woman that you are madly in lust with. People think they're in love with, but they're really in lust in the beginning. Love takes time to develop. But people are like, I really am so into her. It's like, well, you're lusting after someone. So if you're operating from a place of lust, here's the quickest way to turn her off. Not always, but in most cases, send her flowers every day. And then within a week or two of knowing her, tell her how much you love her every day. She's gonna run because you're drowning them. And you're not focusing on what's in it for them, you're focusing on what you want. But people think, oh, if I'm just nice to people, if I'm just nice. So they misconstrue. And the best way to be an amazing giver is you have to give to yourself. You can't deplete yourself. You can't fix the world with broken hands. And so when I read This I was like, it's just Dan's way of saying, yeah, you know, don't twist this around. The best food in the world is great, but not if you gorge yourself with it.

Yeah, and I think the other thing is it takes a lot of muscle building to have ambition for yourself, and it takes a lot of practice and it takes a lot of success to have a sense of agency. And we're talking about entrepreneurs here, that regardless of what happens in the world, you have the ability to immediately refocus and understand what's actually going on in the present. And then you have lots of capabilities, you have your own abilities. In strategic coach, we show, have lots and lots of who's in your network who have other abilities. And that constitutes your entire capability. It's not just what you individually can do. But I notice a lot of people use the problems of others to actually not be in touch with. Yeah, but what about this one person, the only one you have full contact with in your entire life? What are you doing for that person? And they're continually deflecting it. Yeah, but I have to help this person. I have to help that person. There's a balance here. And you can develop both abilities. And one of the things that really struck me when we're talking about ambition and agency, that I have never seen a really successful entrepreneur in the marketplace over a long period of time who are continually successful, who have a great reputation, who don't have an incredible ability to get over to the other side of the table and see what life looks like from the person that they're talking to. Right? Yeah. Actually, Adam Smith, who's very famous, he's considered the godfather of capitalism, wrote a book called the wealth of Nations. Everybody who knows capitalism knows Adam Smith. And in the opening lines of wealth of nations, he says, you know, it's not for your interest that the candle maker, the shoemaker, actually creates its product. They're doing it for their own self interest. Okay. But he has another book, actually went to his grave, and he's buried in Glasgow. His grave is there. And it says, Adam Smith is yours. You know, born, died. And it says, author of the Theory of Moral Sentiments. And in the Theory of Moral Sentiments, he says, even though human beings operate from their own self interest, they have an ability to see themselves in the other person's shoes. And he says it's that which makes the marketplace work is that at a certain point you're seeing exactly what the other person's situation is and you're innovating. You're innovating. New product, new service, new experience. But the two go together. Your own self interest and that ability to see very clearly what's going on. I think that's what the marketplace. That's how the marketplace works.

I agree. I mean, that's exactly how it works. And the distinction that I always say is that I never pretend I don't want something. I mean, I get acknowledgement, I develop relationships and friendships. I reach opportunities. Part of it is I've been signing for some people. I will sign my book. What's in it for them? Depending on where I'm at. If I have a bunch of people I have to sign for, I can't write long things, but I'll write. I hope this book helps you open up the right doors and close the wrong ones. Because you're always wanting to open up certain doors and close other ones. The same thing with selling. Everything we do is designed to either retract who we want to attract or repel who we don't. And we all have wants. Everybody has a want. If I'm going on a riff about that, I'll say, I want lunch, I'll want dinner. I will want air conditioning or heat. I will want to be entertained. I will want. We're wanting creatures. Want, want, want, want. Everyone's driving down the road because they want to get somewhere. And when they get there, there's something else they're going to want, Right? People want romance, they want status, they want money. They want all kinds of things. And there's nothing wrong with that. You even help entrepreneurs not have to apologize for their wants. Because there's many forces in the world that says, we don't want you to want this even though we want it right. And you got all this propaganda dictatorship. And so I always say, make sure there's nothing wrong with wanting something as long as it's legal, moral and ethical and is expanding yourself and other people. Great, great. There's nothing wrong with wanting stuff. Just make sure that your give is equal to or greater than you want. And if you want much greater wants, then you better show up with much greater gives. It's like you say, all money earned ethically is a byproduct of value creation. If you want $100 million because you want $100 million, then make sure that your contribution and your give and yours value is worthy of that $100 million. And if you have to take that from someone without earning it, that, yeah, you might get the money. Yeah, you can rip people off. Yeah, you can scam people. Yeah, you can be a taker. And we know lots of takers that are constantly dressing themselves up as givers. I mean, how many communal narcissists that we know that would not contribute anything to anyone if they weren't getting the PR of all of the things that they were doing? You don't build a great reputation by talking about what you're going to do. You build a great reputation by actually doing it. So the thing is, like, people hide behind how we're contributing to other people, how we want to impact so many people. But you haven't impacted one. Try impacting one person and then changing their life. If you want to change the world, but you haven't changed a single life or five lives or 10 lives, start there because it's a bypass.

People who love humanity but can't stand individuals, they have their home life where.

They'Re treating the person like shit, but everyone outside of them is admiring them because they don't have to live with them and see what a tyrant they are.

So funny. At coachcon, we had a big conference in Nashville last year. You were a platform speaker, but Nick Nanton had a really terrific breakout group. And he had two really top notch songwriters from Nashville. And these people are really at the very, very top. One had nine number one hits, another one had 12 hits, and the one who had nine, this was his first one. They work and work. Somebody asked him, you know, what's your work week like? And he said, Well, I write two songs a day, I work five days, I write 10 songs a week. Probably put in 46 weeks. So maybe upwards of 500 songs a year. I've done it for 25 years. And he says, I've got 130 recorded songs. You know, he says that, but he got his number one. And he went home and his wife was sitting there and she said, I was listening to the song. She says the words just amazingly touched me. She says, you know, I can just feel the emotion behind those words. How come you've never said any of those words? How come you never say any of that to me? I mean, they had a good relationship, but she wanted to twist him a little bit.

Did he share that?

No, no, he just told the story. But the big thing about it, you use the word authentic relationships. It's one of those words now that if somebody said, you got to be authentic, you move your billfold from your pocke up under your arm. Oh, here's one of those authentic people. But you're talking about a Totally different relationship than a normal transactional relationship in the marketplace you're really talking about. The person feels totally heard and the person feels totally understood. I just went through Black Swan training about three weeks ago.

Oh, wow. Okay.

So the whole thing about it is that that when you really connect at the level where the person actually is, magic can happen.

Oh, you feel it. You actually feel that you can put your guard down. You'll hear this oftentimes when men or women, like a lot of my female friends over the years, they'll be like, you know, I want to meet someone that doesn't play games. They'll say that term. I got to the point where I was like, you know, it's not that you don't want to play games, you just don't want to lose. Because if you're playing a game and you're enjoying the game and you're winning the game and you're not having to crush the other one, I'm not talking about like this is crush the opponent. I mean, it's like if you're really with someone that you are enjoying and you can gauge the value of most relationships by how often you laugh. If I'm going to go into someone that's going to be a potential long term relationship, I will test their humor. And when I say test their humor, I'm not playing tricks on them. I will just say shit that I find funny and I will see if they find it funny. That's a way to test the humor. It's like, do I have rapport with this sort of person? And there are some people that are great people, but they're not great for you. It's like oil and water. You don't always fit well together. And it's funny because I'll talk with my partner Cherie, who, you know Cherie, and she's lovely. I mean, I would die for her. She's the most sweet, amazing person. And she does not have the same type of humor as me. I mean, there are certain things. She just looks at me like a the earth headlights. And I will even say like, I have to actually say stuff to my other friends because you won't find it funny. And the insecure, needy parts of me want someone to actually think what I'm saying is humorous. But I have plenty of those other relationships that I can do that stuff with. But we have a very great shared value system. So there are certain, like, I don't want anyone listening to this that's like going, oh my God. I go out and Say wonderful things to people, but at home, you know, it's different if you're abusing someone. There's a point though, and I think you're the one that first said it. It's like where you go to a funeral. You hear all these people say all these wonderful things about this person's life, but they never said those things to that person when they're alive. And when I heard that, I was like, that's the most important time to do it. Not after they're dead. Do it when they're alive. And if there's someone that you really admire. And that's one of the things too, Dan, with you, you're a great edifier. You just do it differently than me. You are able to see talents and people that are like raw jewelry, they have to be melted down. The diamond is rough, it has no place to sit. But you see these ingredients in people, and then you're able to put these ingredients together and make a good meal, make jewelry, make something. And you're able to talk to people about that because I'll tell you, and I've learned this from sitting in God knows how many 12 step groups, recovery groups is that oftentimes the driven entrepreneurial mind with a default mode network is very dark. And it's not getting any sort of support from friends and family or people around them. Everyone thinks they're crazy. Not always, but a lot of times. And they literally are just purely moving on ambition. They have no evidence that what they believe in or hope for is even real. And if they get around someone like you, that can paint a bigger future, talking about a bigger future, talking about obstacles, talking about how to get to results, talking about creating value, then all of a sudden they can esteem themselves, they can resource themselves. And in the same way, with addiction recovery, if someone is completely out of control, broken, they're just trying to feel better, and they're using drugs, alcohol, behaviors to try to just find some sort of connection. When someone believes in them more than they believe in themselves, that is often what is needed to lift them out of darkness. And so no matter how successful somebody is, how much money, how much fame, how much notoriety, how much effort they've put in, there's usually always a part of their life where they're broken and they're struggling. And if someone comes along and can just put some sunshine into that darkness, that dark part of their life, that is oftentimes what is needed in order for that person to walk out of the closet or to get to where they need to go or say that, you know what? This isn't working for me. I'm going to drop this and I'm going to do something else. And I think in our own ways, we both try to do that because we're fans of humanity, but we're not bullshit artists. We're not selling Hopium. I mean, hope, used effectively, is giving people a real passion and plan and a way to get to where they want to go. Selling false hope, which is one of the worst things you can do to another person is bullshitting them into believing that they're capable of doing something that they don't have the capabilities yet or may never have those capabilities. And to try to blow that sort of smoke up someone's ass is one of the worst things that you can do. And a lot of people do that. And so I think it's contextual.

Yeah, yeah, it's very much so. Because you're helping other people. I mean, just the fact that you're allowing them to have the discussion about what's real and what's actually going on, I think is healing immediately. I think they develop the ability to heal themselves if someone just actually connects with them on the level that they do. But you're a very successful entrepreneur. I mean, in recent events, over the past year, you've connected people at a very high level in the economy, very high level people at the political level and everything else just doing what you do. But you're now 30 years down the road since you turned things around for yourself. So there's a discernment. I've known you for 28 years. You know, we've been working together for 28 years, and I've seen your sense of discernment. Yes, I know what's going on with this person, but I can't go any further with this.

Right, right.

There's a discernment that's come into you over the years, and I see it grow every year. The discernment that you have, you know, green light, yellow light, red light.

Yes, yes. Well, it's a skill.

It's developed and it's a noticeable skill.

No, and what I mean it's a skill is not saying that I'm talented. What I mean is I developed it, and therefore it is a skill that can be learned. It's not an unlearnable skill. It's not something I was magically given. Believe me, I had to get taken advantage of a lot. I had to have a lot of mental angst. I've had to sit in Throes of depression especially.

You've done your reps.

Yes, exactly. And you know, I spent four and a half hours with Dr. Phil after I had a two hour Zoom with him and totally hit it off. And ever since then, this is about. From the time we're recording this now, this is probably about a month and a week ago, about five weeks ago. And I took four people with me to his headquarters in Dallas. I had no idea how large this operation was with Merit tv, which is, you know, I asked him, what's Merit TV stand for? Where'd you come with the name? He's like, meritocracy. I'm like, I love it. And so he has this huge 200,000 square foot facility. The guy's done like 4,500 shows. He owns his entire library of everything that he's ever created. And what's funny with Dr. Phil is this guy is a master artists of detecting who's full of shit. And so he has had so many people that have tried to pull the wool. And he was even telling me about all the people that come on the show thinking they're going to outsmart him and stuff. So he's had to really develop his spidey senses and who's full of shit and try in a very short period of time to navigate some of the most extreme situations with law enforcement and murderers and everything from just relationship problems to infidelity to lying and everything under the sun. Every sort of dysfunctional thing that could make for TV entertainment has been thrown in his lap. And at the very end of it, I won't go into the details, but he was literally telling this story where we were all watching him and listening to this, where someone was killed and dragged in a car and literally it tore their head off. And talking to the family member, it was like intense, like super intense. And I was just staring him in the eyes. And for some reason I was no longer. I'm talking to Dr. Phil, like so connected with this human. And he said to me, you know, we're kindred spirits. And it really was to me, like gone. Wow. I didn't feel any sort of like, oh, I'm talking to Dr. Phil just like another human to another human. And I think we all felt that. And that ability doesn't come instantaneously now if you get lucky, some people are just your people. I mean, you're just connected. And there's certainly those relationships that happen. Quite the reason I bring that up, though. And then a week and a half later, I'm in the White House. It'll sound too name droppy ish and bragging if I just.

You know what it is. You're getting to hold the bat the way you want to hold it.

Yeah, exactly. But the reason I bring it up is it's nothing sort of special. Part of it is. Yeah. Proximity. You know, there's one thing I will say that you could use in a very awesome ethical way, or you can use it in a manipulative way, is you want to position yourself at the top of other people's agenda. Yeah. And enthusiasm covers many deficiencies, and both of those are part of Kekich credos for my friend Dave Kekich, late Dave Kekich, who spent half of his life in a wheelchair. And the thing is. Yes. What's in it for them? I think about what's in it for them. I also position myself at the top of other people's agendas. However, it's only an agenda I want to be part of. I don't do it. The moment you start doing this from a taker energy, it will backfire. The moment you actually lie to yourself that you care about someone when you really don't, there's consequences to that.

But it's almost like an electric signal. It's either on or it's off, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So it's one of these things to where if you take a look at all of the relationships in your life that are the most significant and the most meaningful in how they make you feel. Like, remove the money you get from them, remove the career stuff. But just like, why are we doing what it is we're doing? And you don't have to like every part of the person. Believe me. There's some people that I'm very appreciative and respectful of. There's one guy that we test almost daily, and it's me always trying to help him see my point of view. And he's always trying to help me see his point of view. I happen to think his point of view is mostly bullshit, but I know that deep down inside he's a good person and he's caring. And I've just tried to bring him out of the dark side into the light. But if you were to ask him, he thinks the same exact thing. Right. But it's this funny banter that we have going on, and I'm learning a ton of stuff on how to understand other people, and I'm willing to engage in that. Like, some people would say that's a waste of time. But for me, it's doing the reps.

It's just doing the freaking reps. Yeah.

And a lot of this political stuff. Here's the funniest thing. So when I was in the White House, like, we're in this room after the Maha report, you know, they did this whole report from the hhs. Everyone that's part of that is there all these famous doctors. You know, Trump came out and spoke to everyone afterwards. And then, you know, after we left the White House, we all go up to this private club and we meet, and then we're there with all kinds of people. And it's so funny. Cause it's one of these, like, thank God I knew enough of the people there. I would have been uncomfortable. Everyone's dressed up. Everyone's, like, doing, you know, not small talk, but everyone's agenda there is their agenda. And so Bobby Kennedy comes in and he's shaking people's hands. Someone's like, oh, Bobby's here. And so I'm kind of just standing there, and then Bobby notices me and then comes up and gives me a big hug. And then all of a sudden, these people that probably could give two shits about me or would just be like, whatever. I had four people come up to me and like, can you introduce me to Bobby Kennedy? And I'm sitting there in the back of my mind like, wow, you're so full of shit. Now all of a sudden, I represent something that you want. And it made me realize this is why I'm not deeply involved in politics. I do not want to play that game. Then I was talking to, well, not mention her name, but she's in the White House. And I said, so what's the most amazing and exciting thing about doing this? And what's the worst thing about doing this? That's what I said. I often ask what's the worst thing and the best thing about being you? And I'll ask that the people that are either pretty impactful or influential or famous or whatever, it's always funny to hear what it is they say. It's not the question. It's their response to it that I find interesting. And so she says, I'm able to do stuff that I had dreams of doing when I was 14 years old. I remember as a little girl, I can maybe one day do something big in the world. And she said, I'm now able to do that every day. She goes, when you hear people say it's politics. I heard that my whole life. I've been around this for a Long time. I never realized just how every day, she said, every day I'm talking to someone that's looking me in the eyes while they're simultaneously trying to stab me in the back. She's like, it is crazy. You have no idea the amount of shit that people will do. And I'm like, yeah, you know, and that's why there are certain environments that are very toxic. I remember you said the two industries that completely misuse talents are politics and nonprofits. Not all of them, but much of them. And so. Yeah, and I would also say there's other industries, too. I won't mention all those, but there's a lot.

There's the big one.

Yes. So let's do this. Because you wrote this whole other success criteria. And before we wrap up this episode, I don't want to leave this out, because it's really good thinking that you did.

Yeah. The one thing I want to finish off is the ripple effect idea that this is a real multiple. When you get it down. I mean, you've spent your 57 now, and you've put in from my recollection of you telling your story, and I've known you for 28 years. Every year this has become. I think it's an art, but it's also a craft. But there's a certain point when you've done this enough that it creates a ripple effect. In other words, that people are talking about you in the best possible way. A lot of people are talking to each other. Jeff Madoff and I were having a podcast. He was saying, you know, people are into this, creating your own personal brand, you know. He says, I think there's really a lot of bullshit. And I says, well, you know, it's about marketing. But I said, my feeling is that marketing consists of three things. Great people who know you are saying great things to other great people like them, and they're saying great things about you to them. I said, that's marketing. But to do that, you just gotta be totally congruent and totally consistent every day for decades. Yeah, that creates the ripple effect.

Yes, absolutely. Because we know people that are famous and well known, and they are always finding a new victim or they would call it an audience. And so there's enough people that they can continue to victimize, or they can continue to pull the rug over their head, and they can still be well known. However, you don't find great people, though, after a while, because there's a point where longevity and the ability to sustain and, you know, there's situational Behavior, which I write about in what's in it for Them? And then there's situational ethics. Situational behaviors. I. I might tell a dirty joke to you and Babs, but I'm not going to tell it to my friend's grandma until the grandma tells me a dirty joke that I know it's okay. Then I'll tell her the dirty joke. So there's situational behavior. Years ago, I shared it with Bill Phillips and people drink beer. Most people have drank beer. Not everyone, but some people. And they've also gone to church. But you usually don't drink beer in church. You would go to a bar to drink beer. That's situational behavior. Situational ethics, though, we all have situational behavior. You know, you're gonna wear certain clothes to a certain type of event and you're gonna be more casual in a different thing. Well, languaging and interaction are the same way. Professionalism. I always kind of joke because when I go to a really high end restaurant that's almost uncomfortable for me. If it's super formal, that shit's kind of uncomfortable. Whereas some people love super formal. I don't like it, but I'm always thinking how many of the chefs and the staff are out in the back getting hide behind the dumpster. Right. So I try to bring some levity sort of situation. But the situational ethics, though is wrong. That's where you act on stage one way, but you're not that way. And no one's perfect. So I know that I'm not trying to act like I believe me, we're all human and we all have our flaws and our bad days and good days and all that sort of stuff. But when you see people to act like they're just these angels and they're these criminals, I mean, they're just so full of shit. I mean, I grapple with that continuously.

Yeah, it was very funny. Someone told me a story. A man goes to a priest, he's Catholic, and he says, father, is it okay if I smoke while I'm praying? And the priest says, no, no, prayer is very, very sacred. You can't do that. So he takes it in for one week and he goes back and he sees the priest again the next week. And he says, father, is it okay if I pray while I smoke and pray? Said, of course you can pray at night.

That's a marketer for you, right? It's all how you frame these things. Yeah. And I mean, you can get away with a lot if you learn how to frame it. I guess the boundary I would say is be careful though, what you're getting away with. And when I say get away with stuff, it's focused to push the light. I mean, I love shocking people. I love sarcasm. I love just making people like, are you freaking? You know, I like insulting people in a nice way. What I don't want is to where it becomes cruel. I mean, when it becomes cruel or when it becomes really like you're hurting someone that's, you know. And have I done that? I'm sure I have. I would have to say, I would.

Say you're much better now.

Oh, yeah, yeah. You would always bring up the business card that I originally had, which is, I got the idea from Gary Halbert. So Gary Halbert became a friend of mine and he was this crazy ass, brilliant copywriter. I mean, utterly fascinating guy, but just tormented. I mean, he was like, we would talk about addiction all the time before I really even understood the depth of addiction. But Gary had a lot of struggles and he was crazy as hell. But his ability to weave together words were so powerful. He was a really just amazing writer and teacher when he was on, when he was off, he was a train wreck. So I had this business card that said when I was long hair, ponytail, and I had my first carpet cleaning business. And here I was, this young guy in my 20s getting attacked by people twice my age in the industry that had been there forever. And then I, out of the chute, come out with different methodologies to build and grow their fire and restoration and carpet and upholstery cleaning businesses. And I became very successful in that industry early on in the 1990s. What people are not up on, they're often down on it. So I would get attacked by people that had never read a single thing I ever wrote in the courses. They would just see my ads and they would just assume that I'm like, some like them. Exactly, exactly. You're so right. So I was getting all this shit from all these people. So I had to kind of put up this armor. And so I was like, I'm going to turn this into humor seeing. So it said, Joe Polished, the world's most obnoxious marketing genius. And you looked at it and you're like, you know, I don't think you should use the word obnoxious anymore. It should say the most useful. And of course, I then got rid of the business cards. I don't know if I ever got a card that said the most useful. But I was always useful and I was always Trying to be useful. And so part of it is like whatever your shtick is or however you deliver it, I mean, it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. Everyone has different ways of doing it. What I will say, though, as long as you're useful, as long as you genuinely care, it's kind of what we've done. Whole podcast episodes on don't be a thought leader. Any idiot can come up with a thought, be a result leader. Because if you can produce results for people, you will build a reputation, then you will have great people saying great things about what it is that you've done and what you brought to the table. And that could take years to develop, and why wouldn't it? Right? So that's just kind of how I try to live today. I try to just be useful to as many people. And one thing that Gary Halbert used to say to me, and I don't obviously do this every week, but I have done it. It's one of the reasons we go to prisons, it's one of the reasons I have an addiction recovery foundation and stuff, is it's a forcing function. It's not because I'm some philanthropic angel. I mean, it helps me in my own recovery to do this sort of stuff. Gary would say, if you want to understand how to sell to people, take the bus once a week, go on a public bus and just sit with people and watch. Especially if you have gotten to a successful level where you can live in a really nice house, eat at really nice restaurants, go on really nice vacations, where that becomes your normal. And you think that's how people live, but in reality, that's not how most people live. And if you get to the level where you've had some financial success, don't ever think you're above any of this sort of stuff. And he would say, take the bus once a week. And I've recommended lots of different things to people that you can become kind of disconnected with humans if you get so wrapped up in success. And it's similar to what you talk about. It's a different way of saying success traps are harder to get out of than failure traps. Not just when you're having success, but how you communicate and how you interact with people. I mean, go hang out with humans. Be a human. I think it's. Yeah. At least works for me.

Joe, what's in it for them? We've constructed this conversation by applying the concept of ambition and agency to your book. And I just wonder if any new Thoughts have come up in the course of this about your own book and what you can do with your own book now.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing came out of the worst result that you outlined here on how to think about it. One of the things since I wrote the book is I've had a lot of people. Even someone here today came up to me and said, Hal has listened to my book on audio once and has read the written book twice and told me how much it's helped her in her business and someone I just met here today. And that's great. I love hearing that. It's helping people think on how to approach someone and how it's helped them with doing sales and whatnot. The thing though is that I didn't realize how much some people that are true givers sacrifice themselves for other people without giving to themselves. So I think what this does is it helps me understand the importance of taking care of the million dollar racehorse. The analogy is if you had a million dollar racehorse and every time the horse ran a race you'd win a million dollars, how would you treat that horse? You would have the best trainers, the best foods, the best conditions, you would make sure that the horse had proper sleep, just everything. And wouldn't you do with that horse? You wouldn't have the horse up till 3am watching porn and snorting crystal meth. You wouldn't over train the horse. You wouldn't sleep, deprive the horse. You wouldn't beat the horse. But oftentimes people beat themselves up, they sleep, deprive themselves, they eat crappy food. They're running too many races. And I run a lot of races. So here's one thing where I don't want to be incongruent with what it is I'm saying because I was talking to my partner the other day and I said, you know, I don't even know where the hell I got this concept in my head. I read it somewhere where it's one thing to to be in the traffic jam, it's another to be in the accident. So there are stages in our life when we're really trying to get somewhere. Like you come to Strategic Coach every day and you go home and you're going to be in traffic. And there are times on the way here and on the way home you're going to be in a traffic jam. We all get in traffic jams. And I'm using this as a metaphor where you could maybe take on too many things. You know, you just have those weeks where you're like, oh my God, I got so much to do and you're jammed up. Well, just make sure you don't get into a crash. Because if you're so jammed up, it's like you say, entrepreneurs that are too tightly scheduled cannot transform themselves. You're going to have a crash if you just consistently are too tightly scheduled. So if you're going to have a week or a month or a period of time where your business ain't doing well, something's happened in the economy where you just got to burn the midnight oil, okay? Build team around yourself, which is what you help people to do. Resource yourself, take care of yourself physically. But you got to be the million dollar racehorse. The horse can win a ra even if it's super hardcore training. Like, my partner Cherie just completed the Escape From Alcatraz Triathlon. And I was so proud of her because 10 years ago, almost to the day, she was in the same race, but she had a malfunction with her handlebar. She flipped over, she fractured her face. She just scraped skin. She just sent me pictures I'd never seen before. Earlier today. I should show them to you. It's crazy. She was unconscious for 18 minutes and woke up in the hospital. So for 10 years, I saw her wear all these shirts of triathlons and marathons and everything that she had been in, but she had not been in one. And I knew she was very rightfully so apprehensive about being in this race because it had to scare her. I mean, that was traumatic. She's a plastic surgeon and she had to have multiple surgeries on her face and she fractured her face. But she always had this desire because she's an athlete. But for 10 years, she was not able to really express that at the level that she wanted to. And she trained for it and she completed it. And it's like, yep. And that was scary as hell for her, but it was such a huge win. So my point is. But you can't do that all the time. And then. Do you know the Iron Cowboy, James Lawrence? Let me see if I can find this. And people wouldn't be able to see this, the video of it, but he sends me this without me even asking, he sends this video to me. It's a short video. Let me see if I can find it. I'll play it for you so you can see it down, but I'll put it up to the microphone. And he sends this to Shireen. Now, this is a. A guy who ran 50 consecutive Ironmans every single day. This dude is a monster. This guy makes David Goggins look like he's not doing stuff. And David Goggins is insane, right? So.

Hey, Cherie, James Lawrence here, Iron Cowboy. Just finishing up a bike ride myself, going to Mont Tremblant this weekend. I just want to send you a massive congratulations for getting back in the water. San Francisco near nailing that swim, getting out, dominating the rest of it. What a victory given everything that you've been through. So, bottom of my heart, congratulations. That's such an amazing comeback. Very cool story. I couldn't be happier for you. Have an amazing rest of your week and a great weekend.

Yeah. And it's like, this is so cool, right? But the beauty is like we're talking back and forth about different stuff. He was asking me about related to AI, right? And I just happened to tell him that that story. So he then shoots that video because he doesn't even have her phone number. And he sends it to me without me asking him to do it. And I'm like, this is a perfect demonstration of what's in it for them. He sees an opportunity to edify someone. No one has done what this guy's done. He is the top in the world. He is like a beast.

Right?

I rarely use that word, beast, but it's insane, the level of stuff. But here he is acknowledging someone else. And. And that's just an example. I mean, this does not require a lot of money. We all have our Tammy. What we can spend. We spend our time, our attention, our money, our effort or our energy. If you don't have any money, you got time, you got attention. Put in some effort, put in some energy. Direct it to people like as you say that you want to be a hero to think about what's in it for them. Cut all ties with dishonest, negative and lazy people. If you want an elf life or an elf business, which is easy, lucrative and fun, get rid of everyone. That's half. Which is hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. And if you focus your. What's in it for them? Activities on the right people that are aligned with you, that you're aligned with them. Not only do I think you can make a lot more money, but you can have a much happier life. And can we do this before we wrap? You wrote the success criteria. So Dan wrote Ambition Redefined as serving others. The book fundamentally reframes ambition by encouraging you to prioritize helping others win first. You will see that true success naturally follows when you focus on service, generosity and creating value for others. Rather than pursuing self centered goals alone. Then Dan wrote take an initiative to build rapport. You are empowered to take agency by proactively identifying and alleviating the challenges and suffering others face instead of passively waiting for connection opportunities. You learn to deepen relationships through intentional empathy and meaningful engagement. And I think it's important that you don't wait around, you just actively do it. And then you wrote authentic relationships create lasting impact. Joe Polish demonstrates that ambition rooted in building authentic non transactional relationships leads to to greater long term success and personal fulfillment. You will find that genuine connections foster trust and collaboration, multiplying positive outcomes far beyond superficial networking. And then you wrote Practical Steps to Deepen Connection. The book's nine principles provide clear, actionable steps that encourage you to take responsibility for the quality and depth of your relationships. This agency focused approach helps you cultivate meaningful bonds that benefit all parties involved. And the word bond is the most important thing in business I think is you have to bond with your client. There'd be no strategic coach or genius network if we didn't bond with our members. And your team, that's their job is to bond with your members. And then the last thing you wrote is creating a ripple effect of success. By consistently asking what's in it for them, you initiate a powerful domino effect of positive change and opportunity. This mindset actively shapes your network and outcomes, showing how ambition and agency combine to generate lasting influence and growth. And so now Dan, we're going to take this podcast and we're gonna put it out to the world. Hopefully people will like what it is we shared and some of the things we discussed. We're also going to share it with Hay House and Hay House is going to listen to this and be like, okay, we're gonna create an audio original and these are the rough thoughts of some of the concepts. And then we will deepen what it is we're doing based on the fact that we had this initial conversation. And so this is how creativity and the creation of knowledge products actually works is we talk about it, we see what sort of feedback we get. And if anyone listening to this, wherever you're listening to it at, love to hear your comments or put your thoughts on anywhere you are reviewing 10x talk and love to hear what you think about it and how it impacts your life. Is there anything else you want to share?

No, I just want to say that I think because I write a lot of books and book writing to a certain extent separates you from your experience because you're putting the experience out into the world, and sometimes you're way beyond the experience that actually created the book. And what I was happy with today, Joe, is that we went back to where all this began. And I think you added an enormous amount of material to the book. And I was very, very moved by this. And we were just like this for a half hour. And I think this is a good start to our project.

I agree. I agree. So thank you, and thank you for taking the time to write this up. So the next episode of 10X Talk that me and Dan are gonna do, it's gonna be be about one of Dan's books, which is 10x is easier than 2x that he did with Ben Hardy. And we're going to go through the process there. So stay tuned for that one. And if this is your first time listening to 10X Talk, welcome to our podcast. And if you like this and have anyone else you think should listen to it, by all means share the love. And that's it. And so we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you. Don't miss another episode of 10X Talk. Subscribe to Today at 10xtalk.com subscribe if you'd like access to the show notes to take action on what was discussed, please visit 10xtalk.com 240.