Why Most Athletes Break - And How We Didn’t | Brandie Wilkerson and Melissa Humana-Paredes

Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn jobs. If you're trying to grow your business, which I think most of us are, your work is about more than just running the day to day. It's about building something with intention, shaping culture, growing a team, setting the stage for what comes next. And when it comes time to hire, you want a partner that matches that same level of clarity and care. That's where LinkedIn jobs comes in. They make it simple to post a job, tap into your network and connect with high quality candidates all in one place. Plus, with LinkedIn's new AI powered tools, you can write stronger job descriptions faster. Because the right hire is more than just skills, it's about alignment with deep candidate insights. LinkedIn helps you feel confident that you're bringing in someone who's the right fit, both for the role and for your company's values. And we can speak from personal experience here at Finding mastery. We've used LinkedIn jobs to find our last several hires. If you follow finding mastery on LinkedIn, you would have seen these posts. And as an aside, if you don't follow us, please do we post content there that you can't get anywhere else. It's how we found our recent project managers, Janelle and Taylor. And it's how we found our lead producer, Emma. We love what LinkedIn has created and it's been such a great service for us as we've grown. If you're looking to grow your team with intention, this is a great place to start. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com findingmastery that's LinkedIn.com findingmastery to post your job for free to Terms and conditions apply. Picture this it's late 2022, spending more time with my family and pouring energy into Finding Mastery. Then my phone rings. It's legendary beach volleyball coach Marcio Sicoli. His voice has that unmistakable spark. He says, gervais, I've got something interesting for you. You're definitely going to want to hear this. Now, when Marcio says something interesting, I know that this is not a casual lunch invite. A few days later, I'm sitting across the table from him and two Canadian athletes I hadn't yet met as a team. Brandy Wilkerson and Melissa Humana Peredas were crammed into a beachside coffee shop. Mismatched chairs, half cold cappuccinos, and within minutes, I feel it. This wasn't going to be a casual meeting. This was going to become an adventure. Welcome back. Or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers. And I AM your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade and training, a high performance psychologist. Now, the idea behind these conversations is simple. It's to sit with the extraordinaries and to learn to really learn about how they work from the inside out. So fast forward to the summer of 2024. Against all odds, Brandy and Melissa are standing on the sand in Paris, playing for a spot on the Olympic podium. Their path is anything but smooth. They nearly crashed out in pool play, saved by a single point in a last chance lifeline. They fought through doubt, anger, tears, and the weight of never having seen Canada medal in women's Olympic beach volleyball. Yet they rose match after match, night after night, until they were facing the number one team in the world. A few months later, before the adrenaline fully faded, we gathered in Los Angeles at the Mastery Lab. Marcio, Melissa, Brandy, myself and our friend, USC professor Dave Belasco, who guided the conversation. What unfolded was part debrief, part love letter to resilience and part behind the scenes account of what it really takes to walk into the fire together. Come through on top. This is that conversation never before released. A story as relevant today as as it was then of trust, grit, and the belief that nobody does the extraordinary alone.

Well, it's wonderful to be here with four people that I really admire and am inspired by. I know Mike quite well. He's been a pillar of my class at USC on Mindset for years and he was the co founder with Pete Carroll and myself on a performance science institute. So you've taught thousands and thousands of USC students. So thank you. And for Melissa and Brandy, I mean, you not only inspired Canada, but the world and following your Olympic run. And so to bring all of you together and have this conversation really is a privilege and to go sort of behind the scenes. So let's start with the two less famous people right now, Marcio and Dr. Mike.

This is true. That's correct. This is true.

Let's talk about your relationship and how a renowned American sports psychologist wound up advising and coaching with Team Canada. Can you talk about the relationship with Mike and how you invited him to this team?

Wow, where do I start it? I think here's where I started. I met Mike in Prius Olympics and that was just like right away. He is the best in the world.

This is when I wanted you on the.

That's all we needed.

You can go in terms of like the mindset and in terms of the psychology of the sport. But the most important thing in Terms of, like, the human relationships. So he knows how that works. And then for me, you know, we had a small budget. We had, you know, not the means to do it. And then I just put it out there, and I said, mike, here's the deal. I have two apples and two bananas. Do you want to go on that project with me? And he goes, like, maybe it's sports ball sports again. I'm not sure. But in our first meeting, you know, for some reason, the players were late, and then we got to catch up a little bit, and then just felt right. Just felt right on my end, and I'm just happy.

So there's a. I just watched you two go. We were late. There's a story behind that. Yeah. So the way that I remember way this. Our relationship first was through Kerry Walsh and Misty May, and we spent two quads. One quad. Two quads. With them, supporting them. And I loved working with you. There was something about the way that you truly support somebody and honestly challenge them. And with all of your technical prowess, I'm like, there's something genius about working with you. And I felt it, and I watched it, and I loved it. And then I thought I was kind of done with volleyball when they retired. It was Carrie in April, and then Kerry kind of retired, was in the transition phase, and I thought I was pretty much done with volleyball at that point. Great run. Amazing. And then I got a call from you that said it was two years into this quad. He said, I've got something interesting. And you thought you were done, too? Yep. Right? Yep. Both of us thought we were done in Olympic volleyball, which is the pinnacle of the sport. And I said, well, what do you mean? And you said, there's these two athletes that are really special. And I said, what do you mean? And you said, I want you to meet them. I said, great. And I trusted you on the physical prowess of them. And so we set up a breakfast, and that was so I could know your character. And then you're 15 minutes late.

And I was like, yeah, that was terrible.

Right. But the way you handled that. I think we set them to the wrong place. Accident. There's two restaurants with the same name, two different cities. You went to City One, we were at City two. But the way that you walked in with a presence, with a humility, with a grace, with an apology, but you didn't give yourself away. Like, you were a disaster. And I felt the presence and I felt the internal power that you walked in with, I thought, oh, well, there's something to that and then he invited me down to watch you play and I said, oh, there's something to that. And so it was the combination of physical and character that allowed us to go one more time and see if we could create magic again. And so it was awesome.

And I want to talk about the essence of your partnership so everyone gets a sense of who you are. Can you talk about what binds you? Do you have shared values that you talk about? Do you have uncompromising principles that you've set up in your partnership? Because you do seem quite attuned. I know at least one of you has had a partnership that wasn't as healthy, maybe. And so from the outside it looks like you play with joy and you exhibit that and we all feel it. Can you talk about the shared values that brought you together as a team and what you just aren't willing to compromise?

The first thing that comes to mind when I think of what we're not willing to compromise, I think it's ourselves, our values. I think we've both been through life's experiences where boundaries were bent and broken, things weren't said, honesty wasn't there, and we suffered from that. We lost ourselves, we lost what was important to us and that joy. So when you are faced with an opportunity to regain that and rebuild that in a very beautiful, amazing way, you're going to protect that. And I think we respect that of each other. Melissa and I are very different in a lot of ways. Actually, we're pretty opposites. And I think that's what binds us together, to be able to show up in different ways and also respect the differences. Melissa provides so much space for me to be who I am and that's important to me. And I hope I provide something for her that allows her to be who she wants to be. I'm not going to speak for you. I think those things are important. I wouldn't want people to be mistaken to think that you can only work with like minded people or people who are exactly the same as you. Because I truly think that's what makes our team successful. But it's a lot more work and you need a lot more support and a lot more clarity and you need to just know who you are. So if Melissa and I met at any other point in our careers or in our lives, I'm not exactly sure it would have worked. So I know we've known each other for over a decade, but I was like four. I don't even know who that person was when I first met. And I don't think we would have gotten along. So everything needs to happen in its timing, and we're just reaping the benefits of the lessons and the beauty of it. And I think that's why the joy is so natural, because it's like you kind of get to finally be free. And I have so much admiration and respect for your journey, and I also understand what it takes to put in some hard work. So whenever I see you successful, I'm going to rejoice in that and love it and be present and just be more optimistic on life. And I'm very grateful for everything you represent for me. More than just as a teammate, for sure. Yeah.

So much goodness and everything you said. And as you were talking, there were so many things I wanted to say. But I think having that history that we had together from going back to when we met, first year of college, and so, yeah, who we were back then was like, five different versions of who we are now. And so I think that's been such a beautiful part of our journey is being able to see where we came from, who that person was, who that woman was, who that athlete was, and how we've evolved and grown to who we are now and continue to change. Like, even since we got together two years ago, seeing growth even in that time has been so fulfilling. And I think something that really has connected us in a way that maybe we haven't felt in previous partnerships, both on the sand and in real life. And just, like, connections, human connections that we've created in our lives, I think that's kind of what has kept us together through really high highs and really low lows. I think that has been foundational for us. I think there's always been this kind of, like, safe space that I've seen in Brandi, and I don't really know what I can pinpoint that to. Maybe it's this, like, she's from when I was, like, 18 years old, and we'd been on different sides of the net together. We'd been on the same side of the net together. But what I think that we really provided was a safe space. And I think that was also attributable to these two with us who were. They were able to kind of cultivate a culture of authenticity and of, like, zero judgment. It was like, who you are today and who you are tomorrow and who you are the day after, what you have to bring in that moment, I think we are accepting of it without judgment. And I think that was, like, really radical for me to feel like I could truly be myself and show all my flaws and show every side of me. And I'll still be loved, I'll still be respected. I'll still be accepted. And I'm gonna be pushed to be even better tomorrow.

Even when. Even when it's not going well?

Yes. Yes. Even when it's not going well.

We all made mistakes at the games, and you didn't make any.

Oh, I made the most.

Not me. No, I made the most. I'm curious to hear about your mistakes.

I'm looking at Marcia. We made a ton of mistakes.

You know, always looking back, that was one thing I was like, oh, I wish I would say that. I wish we would have that hour. I wish would that. And then it became this, like, huge mistake. But I felt the way that we did things was never hiding those mistakes. And we're actually not explaining those mistakes. Everybody knew it. There was a mistake. Everybody knew it. And then we're like, okay, we're going to move forward, because tomorrow we do have another opportunity to make it right.

So in the games, we could see your mistakes. The world could see your mistakes. And for you to try to maybe hide them to the inner team, you never did it. You didn't try to excuse it away. You didn't try to blame it away. You stayed in that honest place. To me, it's evidence of the 24 months before that you were, like, being honest so that you. When you arrived at the games, you could be honest. Like, yeah, I don't know what it is. I can't figure out why I'm a half second late or whatever. And you guys just stayed in it for each other, with each other. That was rad. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Square, one of my favorite local spots here in Southern California. It's a small cafe near the ocean. There's nothing fancy. It's just good food, great people. And it's a place that's become part of my weekly rhythm. I've watched them grow over the years, from a tiny little counter with handwritten tickets to now, a seamless digital experience. Through it all, it's been made possible by Square. And what I appreciate about Square is that they meet business owners exactly where they are. Whether you're just getting started or scaling something meaningful, Square isn't just about taking payments. It's about building systems that support your growth without pulling you away from your purpose. Everything from inventory management to scheduling to customer relationships to financial management and more. It's all integrated, all streamlined. And as your business becomes more Complex square grows with you. Originally, they were known for those small white card readers that made it possible for anyone anywhere to accept payments. Square is now behind the scenes, helping entrepreneurs stay focused on what matters most. If you have your own business or you're thinking about starting one, I want to encourage you to go check out square. Head to square.com go findingmastery that's square. S, Q, U, A, R, E dot. Slash. Go. Finding mastery finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. One of the lessons I've learned working with some of the best in the world is that consistency matters. And one of the ways to help drive consistency is to find ways to remove blockers in your day. Like get ahead of it. You know those blockers, those moments of indecision or delay that can really derail building great habits. So for me, nutrition is one of those areas where if I don't plan ahead, I can easily slip into whatever's available to me and then oftentimes I will be disciplined enough to not make that fast, easy choice. And then what ends up happening is I just don't eat. That's equally problematic. So when I'm hitting the ground running, I want to make sure that I fuel my body in the right way. And that's why I really like David protein bars. They remove the blockers, they remove that friction. In my day, I can just throw one in my bag, grab it in between meetings or while traveling or after a workout whenever it makes sense for me. Each bar has 28 grams of protein, zero sugar, and only 150 calories. They taste great. They're amazing. My go to is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And our team here has been all over the fudge brownie, the peanut butter one too. They seem to just kind of rip through them. It's fun. They've also been formulated with top tier standards in mind and you can feel that level of precision in the product. They've done a really nice job here. If you're looking for a way to hit your daily protein goals with more intention, I'd love for you to check them out. And side note, these bars have been in high demand recently. David is available on Amazon and other retailers and they also have a store locator on their site. Just go to davidprotein.com finding mastery Again, it's davidprotein.com finding mastery.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I heard that in your voice just now.

Yeah, right.

Just because it was so clearly evident from all of the work that was done before from you guys, unwavering standard of Honesty that we bought into in practice. It was like. I can remember one of the first conversations of us as a team at practice. I was like coming up to you complaining about some past set thing. And I was just like, I don't know. I feel like she does this or I don't know if I'm not doing this. And then you're like, melissa, Brandy thinks. And I'm like, oh, my God.

I was like, are no secrets.

Well, shit. He's not wrong. Like, I should probably just talk to her about it. He just like in one second was like, wow, your name came out of her mouth, so you must be talking to her. So I was like, that's the way we're going to do it here. Because I didn't even catch myself. So it's like little things like that. And then obviously like countless car rides and hotel rooms and after game and we've had some crazy talks, post bad losses and things like that that were uncomfortable. And we were still trying to figure out how to do it. Like, did the talk happen right after? Did it happen like four hours later? But we still tried. And then. So to get to the Olympics and truly feel like you can say and do anything was a huge part of why we got the medal.

Yeah, two things on that. One is you guys don't use the word let. I am. I was going to let her be herself, which is a uber controlling, small little word, three letter word that is like really insidious. And you don't use that word. You're like, I'm going to celebrate her being her. And that. That is a first principle is really important. The second thing that I think is radical. I'm going to look at you, Marcio, is emotions.

Yeah.

So the Olympics are for big emotions. Did you have big emotions, Brandy? I guess kind of.

Not as big as I wanted them to be.

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on.

I saw some big emotions, but I.

Thought it was gonna be like way I wanted.

We should get into that. Okay, but I'll statically. You had big emotions. Oh, and the whole team knows it.

Oh, just because I threw the chair on the wall.

Not that broke.

You broke a chair.

That was fine.

It was broken.

That's not a problem. That was not the one I was even talking about. I was talking about in our pre meetings.

Oh, the one where I was Some of those.

I'm not asking to air it out, but there was big emotions and we can air it all out. Yeah. You had big emotions.

Massive.

Marcio, you have huge emotions.

Absolutely. I kissed you.

You did? Yeah. That happened, too. So how many times. How many times did you feel or actually cry the. During the Games? We were there for 20, 21 days, actually. Let's play this. How many times do you think you cried?

Every game.

Every game. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, maybe every post practice, Maybe every day.

Oh, post practice. No, I didn't see that one coming. No, I think every game, for sure.

Not post practice. Not that. Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Like, it was a lot.

Yeah. Every day.

This is not to call you out in that way. It's that the Olympics are for big emotions, and you need incredible courage to go to the edges of emotions. And I was on a team where you guys went to the edges of all of the emotions and still held each other in high regard. Life is for big emotions. If you want a full life, a life of flourishing, one that is radically experienced, you need. We need. I need to know how to go to the edges of all of my emotions. You guys are epic reminders of it. I got to witness it every day. You opened the aperture for me up in. In so many ways as well. I am so honored to be part of this team, I can't tell you. And the. The whole experience from that point for me was the real Olympics. The medal was cool, but it allows us to tell the story in a. In a way that grabs attention. It. The real story is the aperture that opened up for big emotions and to take care of each other as we did it.

I get emotional watching my friends compete and just think, you know, what her father and mother must feel like. So I want to know what. What was. What were those emotions that brought tears? Was it pride? Was it admiration? Was it fury? What. What was it that brings it out in you?

Number one, I cry for everything. So I'm, like, really sensitive on that. If you see someone crying Airplane, watching, like, a dad and a kid movie, that's me. That will be me. I just feel that when I have those tear eyes and that emotion, it is just about the love that we're there, we're there. And for me, it's easier and, you know, easier and plus, have more clarity inside of myself when I let it go and be okay to say, like, you know what? I'm crying. Yes, this is how I'm gonna handle that. But, you know, I'm here in the next two minutes, and then we're all in this together. Yeah. There was never this, like, oh, my God, I can't cry. I'm the strong coach. I'm the Coach, I'm this.

No.

We were all a bunch of human beings trying to do something that was impossible. You know, they don't know that, but that was the first time ever. And then I'm, like, not gonna say how old I am, but since I'm doing this that, like, after game one, I have to leave the bleachers and find a secret place and vomit because that was how nervous I was. And I never did that in my entire life. And I came back. Michael, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm good. We're good. Well, game two.

And I knew exactly what was happening. You had that white look and. But he was like, okay, I'm good.

But did you see this before in previous Olympics?

No, no, no, no.

So this is a new.

This was something different. This was, I think, a different games for all of us.

Yeah.

Totally different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was set up on meeting one.

Yeah.

And it. Where you also brought forward all of that love. And you were like, very clear, like, I'll share first principle of mine that nobody does the extraordinary alone. We need each other. And this thing was rested on that. And you were the anchor for it, for all of us. And the first meeting, you were in full tears, like, no, we're going to do this thing differently. We're not going to just go and compete our asses off to get to the podium and then have the thing fray. And we're not going to arrive competing to the Olympics and not like each other. Like, it was totally grounded in. You are the anchor for the whole thing.

Yeah, I agree.

Yep.

I have so many thoughts as you're both speaking. 1. My favorite memory, one of my favorite memories of the Olympics is I'm so happy someone recorded this. But with your reaction, the three of you, you, Fiapo and Marcio, after we won the semifinals, and how you each emoted so differently. It took you a minute. You were, like, sitting in the chair. Mike and Fiapo are hugging immediately. And then, like, you're still sitting in the chair, and then Mike comes to you to be like, come on. And then you just, like, jump up and just to see the emotions that we couldn't see because we're on the court having our own moment. And so seeing the behind the scenes. I'm honestly so grateful someone recorded that because it adds so much more to our journey, and it adds so much more expansiveness to the emotions we felt. Knowing how you were reacting on the sides because you're such a big part of this, and you really guided how we operated As a team. And you could see in that video. I hope we can show it on the podcast. But, like, how much it meant to you as well, because this was like, these are people that are behind the scenes that don't really get the attention or the acknowledgement that you deserve because we're the ones on the sand. The cameras are on us. But this is like the heart of the team. So that moved me so deeply. And to hear how emotional it was for you was incredible. But also when I think about myself and like, when you asked how many times did you cry at the Olympic Games? There were days before the Olympic Games where I was getting a little emotional. But when I got in Paris, I didn't really cry as much as I thought I would actually ever. Until after pool play. And you and I went for a walk in the forest.

Is it the forest walk? I think we just labeled it that. There's no real forest in Paris.

There were just trees.

It was the dark forest of the.

It was right, by the way, bathrooms almost where the trees are. That was our forest. And we had just lost, like, basically our. Our pool. And we have. We had found out we had to play in this Lucky Loser match. And like, everything was.

The listener probably doesn't know the stakes of what that is.

Okay. Yeah.

Were we going in. In fifth place or fourth place? What was the rank?

Fourth. Fourth in the world.

Fourth in the world.

Seated first in the pool.

And they had never. Canada has never podiumed. Correct. In beach volleyball.

Yeah.

Never won a medal in beach volleyball.

Women's.

Women's. And so. So that's the context. And then at this moment, you're now in last place.

Yeah.

You've fallen from fourth to last place.

And first in your pool. Favored to win. Your pool.

Yeah.

You win your first match against Paraguay, you lose to the young Swiss team, and then with a lot of stakes on the line, you lose to Latvia, and then you wind up in the Lucky Loser. Yeah, by a point.

One point.

By a point.

And what's crazy is a couple weeks before the Olympics, when we were doing our pre mortem conversations, which basically was airing out all of our, like, what's the worst thing that could happen? Like, our kind of our fears heading into the Olympics, airing it out on a big whiteboard, we wrote it all down and we kind of troubleshooted, like, what's. Okay. How are we going to prepare for this if this happens? Like, what's the worst thing that could happen? Which I was scared to do in general because I didn't Want to give it energy. I didn't want to put my fears out there and like, give them power, but I think it was actually so powerful to do that. But one of the things that I said was, we don't make it out of pool. That's the worst thing that could happen at the Olympics. For me, that was top of mind and that almost happened. So, like, the worst thing for me is almost happens. And I was in like a complete state of shock because there was no way that was a reality. I remember saying it out loud in our pre mortem chat, being like, I know this will never happen.

I remember that.

But if we don't make it at a pool, like, and I know when I kept qualifying saying, no, it would never happen, like, it's so far from reality for us that we would even be in that position.

It would be one of the worst things that could take place.

Yes. And here and it we are almost happened. That was a shock that hit my system in a way that I wasn't prepared for. And I remember we were on our forest walk and you looked at me very early on on the walk and you said, have you cried yet? And I was like, taken aback by that question. I didn't like that question. And I remember getting kind of defensive and I was like, no, why would I. Why would I cry? Like, that would make things very final for me. Like, I mean, it's not over yet. And I'm crying as I'm saying this. Like, just you opened the floodgates for me in that moment and it felt like a huge release. And it just felt every day after that, I cried randomly.

Wow.

No idea why. I would wake up in the morning, I would be FaceTiming my boyfriend and I'd be crying. He goes, why are you crying? I said, I don't know. I don't know why I'm crying. I would be journaling and I would be crying on my paper and they were like happy tears. Some of them were tears of fear, some of them were tears of insecurity. Some of them were like gratitude tears. Just everything, it just opened up this emotion, like moments I had never experienced in my life before. I felt at the Olympics, very cool and wouldn't have been able to feel that if it wasn't for, like, the people we were with.

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Chair or the wall or who broke what.

No one's supporting violence here. But you know, like. But there was a moment, right? And so that's the. Those are the edges. If you can't go to the edges, I don't think you'll ever find out what you're capable of. And if you play it tight and safe and small, you can get good results in life, but never the extraordinary.

Yeah, Brandi, what were you experiencing after the loss to Latvia going into the Lucky Loser? Give us your state of mind and what, what tools did you rely on maybe that you had practiced with the team? And, and you're, you're a student mindset and you, you do the inner work.

I've.

I follow you enough on Instagram to know that you're on that. So what skills did you rely on at that time to turn it around? Because. Because Mel was not playing well. You weren't playing well as a team.

I know that's the truth.

I'm joking.

I'll take another chair.

I'm just joking. Okay. I'm sorry.

I felt terrible. She sold me that too.

But, like, I was coaching great.

Yeah, no mistake.

But that was handled.

This sport is brutal. You are 100% dependent upon one person, your partner. You could be playing lights out. And if your partner's not there with you now, I'm not saying that's the case, because it wasn't. But what were you experienced there? And what tools did you rely on to turn it around and be ready for the lucky loser match? Were you mad?

Oh, yeah. I was furious. And that's thing I have allowed myself to practice is to truly feel all of my emotions and fully. And so if anger was the thing that came up, I remember just screaming like, are you fucking kidding me? Just like ripping things apart. I don't know if we talked much. We did a little bit, but it's like, I'm not here to like, check up on you and do what you're doing. We're here to connect and make sure that we both understand what the next move is and we're both good. I have full trust in your process as you have in mine. So it was just more what I felt was more of a check in, like, we're still good. I'm pissed. I'm gonna go do this now. That's my emotions, that's where I'm feeling. But I think my entire life I've been so used to working with so little. So that if it's just one point that we have that kept us in the game, that was enough for me to be like, we're still going to win this. And so it was just another opportunity to practice making something out of nothing. And it was exciting to me to do that. It was freeing. When we finally did get to a calm place and I remember sitting on that bench before the game because we were so ill prepared. We didn't even have close to changing. We had no, like, foresight of being in this position. And you're like, should we do some video? I'm like, no, we're just gonna, like, go for this. And everyone loved to watch us play that game. They saw us have some fun. And I appreciated Marcio's directness and setting the tone in terms of, like, no, I'm not even gonna, like, talk to you about this. It's so outrageous. Do what you know how to do. And so that was a good reminder of that as well. But I think the thing for me that was most important and the thing I used the entire game was just. I already knew where we were gonna end up, so it was just getting there. And as long as you give me even one little breathing space, I'm gonna take it and run. So I think that's what I had to lean on. Yeah.

If I can chime in. What I saw in those moments after was like, guttural emotions from Brandi, like a whole spectrum. And after both of the games that we lost, that we believe truly we shouldn't have lost, I saw her really feel in ways I hadn't really seen before. And it was done in a way that never made it feel like it was pointed at me. It was genuinely her emotions, how she was feeling these and how much it meant to her is what I saw as well. And again, it was done in a way that was so respectful of my experience as well. But also she was going to feel this her way. And I thought that as a partner, that was like a form of leadership and self awareness that I'd never really seen before. Because, yes, like, I was. I felt like I was letting the team down and this was my partner who was standing by my side regardless. She was going to feel the depths of the disappointment and the anger of what was happening. But she was never going to make me feel bad for it. She was going to allow me to move through it and just know that she's still with me. And that was something that, that I think I didn't know I was capable of having in someone and feeling in somebody. And so to see this kind of progress and evolve heading into the Lucky Loser game, I felt so much freedom because of that. And our backs were against the wall, like, there was no way we should have maybe felt free or like relaxed or jointed, like, together. But we were. And that's testament again to these two, to us, what we've done together. And so, like, I think very few teams, if any, would have been able to survive what we survived and make it out alive.

I completely agree with that. And we've seen some heavy situations. I'm looking At Marcio, both in volleyball and otherwise. I completely agree with that. I was having a conversation with our producer, Kevin, earlier that I don't think that. I don't think many teams could have done what you've done. And, yeah, it was radical. And I think, Brandy, you led with all of that emotion, and you. There was a leadership moment in that. In so much as you didn't fray the relationship, the teammate, the bonding. There's leadership in that. I'm not sure how you did it, because we were not in the room, just you two. And I think the 24 months that we had done a lot of work, you were able to not get sucked in. Oh, no. It's like, I'm blowing it. I'm the reason I'm the. It's me. It's me. I'm. Now I'm looking at you, Mel, like you were able to maintain your boundary, and you were able to maintain your boundary. There was a nice Venn diagram, but it wasn't an enmeshed relationship. Technically, what that means is when one person wobbles, the other one wobbles. And you. You did not do the enmeshment thing, which is awesome. And I'll never forget what you just said, Brandy. I'll never forget how you just said it and what you said. That you're used to working with very little that is, like, not only just powerful, it's honest. And that's. I didn't know how you did it. Well done.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Well, that's you. Yes, y'. All.

That's awesome.

I didn't have to have very little with y', all. So that's the beauty of it.

Well, that's interesting.

Well, that it is a testament to the work that when the stakes were the highest and the pressure was the highest, that you felt free, because that's what Dr. Mike and Marcio would want, is that they want you to bring 100% of your talents to every situation, and you can't do that if you're not playing free.

You know what? Marcio did that. And I'll never forget this. This was going into a can. I remember when it was. And you probably say it all the time, but it just hit me differently. Marcio just says, go wake up your senses. Senses. Go wake up all of your senses. And you've probably said that a million times, and it just hit me, like, the simplicity. And go out there and be more animalistic, more like, you don't need to use your thinking brain because you have. Of course, we all do. But like, just go wake up your senses and let the true information come in and you'll know how to respond. Do you remember him saying that?

Vividly.

Yeah.

But I also remember this was heading into the. This was our do or die match, right. The lucky loser game. I remember when we were getting ready for our team meeting to go over the game plan, which we normally do. It's part of our routine all the time. We go over the game plan and then we go warm up and he comes into the change room and says, there is no game plan. We are just going to play free. We're going to listen to our instincts. We're going to play like we know how to play. You know how to do this. And we're just going to. We're just going to go. And that was both like really terrifying for me, but also really freeing, which was something that I hadn't felt yet at the Olympics. Was that like kind of permission to feel free and to just like go with what I'm feeling on the court rather than what I'm thinking? I'm overthinking this play, I'm overthinking that play. And I'm not living in the moment and like going off of what my gut's telling me on the court. And so when you said there's no game plan, awaken your senses, be in the moment. And we know, we've talked about being in the moment before, right. We train it. But when you're in those moments, sometimes you forget. And so that was a reminder that I definitely needed to hear. And heading into that warmup was so different and heading into that game was so different. And I actually remember in right before they were going to call us out before that game, it was nighttime, it was like 10pm and that's when they light the Eiffel Tower.

Eiffel Tower was in full beauty.

Gorgeous.

Wasn't that like. Honestly, before you finish your. So when that like magical.

It was like indescribable.

The whole, the whole. Underneath the Eiffel Tower.

Unbelievable.

I don't know how any world games can ever compete with what you. Where you guys got to compete. No, and where we got to, you know, coach from like, I don't know a world game that can do that.

Like, it's hard to magic. It's historic. But I remember in that moment they also play these songs randomly before they call the team's out. And there was this one French song, I guess that they were playing in that moment and you kind of like took a Pause. Your senses were like, woken up, I guess, because you're like, this is one of my favorite songs. And I'd never heard this song before. It was. I don't even know. It's like a childhood song. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what it was. And she like, this is one of my favorite songs. And, you know, normally we're kind of locked in, we're talking game plan before we're about to go on the core. And here we are, like, looking at the twinkling lights of the Eiffel Tower. Were, like holding each other, listening to the song. Yeah, we're like, like listening to this song. And it was just so different than how we would ever operate right before a game. It was just so natural and so, like emotional. And everything changed, I think, after that moment for us, for the team.

So you, you win the lucky loser match, you survive in advance. So there's probably more relief than joy in that with everybody there. And you get into the roundup 16 in the medal tournament. And your reward for that is playing the number two ranked team in the world, the Americans, Kloth and Nuss, who heading into the games probably were the most consistent team on the world tour. And so you approach that game and Brandy, you know, just watching from the stand, you could see that you wanted to physically dominate the game and take over. So tell us about your mindset and approaching that game and maybe what you witnessed, the adjustments that you made. Certainly on the other side of the net, it seemed like you had a strategy on who to serve and what to do. But just take us through the emotions of that game because when that game, then that match, you turned a corner and you were gone.

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I think when we first found out who we were playing, I have so much respect for that team and they were playing well, but there was absolutely no way I was losing that game. Like, there's no way. We already knew we saw each other, we kind of had a laugh because we're like, of course this would happen. We absolutely deserve that. And we're completely prepared. So knowing that we were locked in and that, like, I don't know what you would have had to do to take it away from me. But it was not going to happen. So it was exciting to go in with that energy.

And what does that sound like in your head?

Probably pretty vulgar.

Yeah, yeah.

It's aggressive.

No effing way, right? Like.

Yeah. There's just. No. It's like, I know myself too much. I know what I'm about. I know what I can do. Like, nobody has something on. Like, I can't even imagine that someone coming in my way. It was just like, so not even in the realm of reality for the listener.

I know who I am, and I know what I'm about. That's the biggest rock to get the container. Because once you really know who you are, nobody, no situation, no circumstance can ever take it away. And you've got that big rock. Rock in the container. You know who you are. You've done that work. And it feels like it's almost a throwaway comment, but it. It is. It is the comment.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you know what you're capable of, right? So. But it's the first big rock that I listen when I hear you say that. I go, yep, yeah, yep. And that is. There's no easy path to know who you are. That's just time under tension, you know, an honest reflection and rad. That's rad.

Yeah.

Okay. Sorry for the interruption.

Yeah. So it's just time to use that to circle back. It's just time to use that energy. Those years and years of hard work, plus, I didn't have to worry about, like, Mel not being or my team. Like, I have a team I don't even have to worry about either. So it's like, I have the freedom to just be everything that I know that I am and have so much, like, come into that and just have this beautiful photo and challenges is what I crave. It's what I've known my whole life to then something that I invite into my life because of how much goodness has come out of it.

Heading into that game, I was not my most confident self at the beginning of the Olympic Games. It was just not going the way that I had foresaw, that I had planned, that we had prepared for. And so I was kind of going through this, like, emotional turmoil and, like, dealing with some of the doubt and some of the insecurities that I had battled for, like, a good chunk of my career. But, like, it was on display at the Olympics, and it would have been really easy for me to pack it in to be like, yeah, it's just not My week, you know, like, it's. I, Like, I just can't show up the way that I want to show up. And it would have been so easy for me to just back down and, like, give in. And if we look at the game, we actually went down in that game pretty early. I think it was, like, 13, eight was the technical. N. 14, nine.

Game one.

Game one.

And, like, it could have been so easy for us to just accept that, accept the defeat, like, coming back from that after, you know, a start to an Olympic Games, a start to a tournament that we were not feeling our best in, we were not playing our best. And I think very quickly, we started to realize, okay, we're not. I'm not playing my best right now. How are we going to troubleshoot this? Like, what are the things we're going to reach for that are going to help us get over this? And it wasn't, like, the tangible skills. It was the intangible skills. It was, like, the relationship. It was the vulnerabilities. It was the honesty. It was the heart and the grit that we're going to get points. They're going to be scrappy points, they're not going to be beautiful volleyball points, but we're going to get this win somehow, and we're going to get these points. We're not going to give up. And I think you really saw that in that game. But before the game started, we were in the change room. It was just us two. We were talking. And for me, heading into that game, I anticipated playing this team at some point during the Olympic Games, but, like, later semifinals. Finals, not the first round of playoffs. And so in the change room, like, it was. It was heavy. It was heavy emotions. I think you broke the silence, and you were like, how are you doing? Like, really, how are you doing? I was like, I'm nervous. I am nervous. And I think you opened up that space for me, to be honest, because we were done. We were done. Like, okay, things aren't going well. Like, we're excited accepting that. And you were like, I have played out every possible outcome of this game. We win in two, we win in three, we lose in two, we lose in three. Like, all the different possible outcomes. I have visualized how this could go, and there's only one outcome that wins for me. And I remember you said that, and I was like, I. I knew which one it was, but it still took a minute for me to, like, get on board with that right away, because we have played that team, like, 11 times in our History. And it was like maybe they, it was like 50, 50, maybe they were up 60, 40 or something. Like we would go back and forth with the win. So it was really like, I think the last time we played them, they won. Right. So we weren't going in with like the numbers on our side. But if anything that the Olympics taught me was that the numbers don't matter. No, like no amount of history of, no amount of rankings, no amount of seatings, no amount of side out percentages or whatever your numbers are, it didn't matter. Those were probably the lowest numbers of my entire career. And we still managed to walk away with some hardware. And so I think going into that really I was going in with a little bit more reservations than I probably should have. But I think what that game taught me and the work that we did together, the work that we did together, our debriefs and our post prep, like our pre game preparations taught me and instilled more of that belief, that trust in the work that we had done for the last two years. And that showed in that game. I think you could see it pretty clearly.

There's another option that we would train for and hoped for, which was listen. We arrive at the game and we're just completely smooth. And I have confidence. We train for confidence. So I'm listening, like, yeah, I didn't have confidence. I doubt. And so that's real too. And how to work through the prickly stick, sticky kind of hard parts of the experience is what makes people champions in their life, whether it's volleyball or business or relationships. How do you work through the sticky parts? The parts that are not easy to work through. So you relied on your partner to say, look, I got it, I got you, like loosen up or whatever it might be. But you had to bring that forward. And that's where I think a lot of people struggle, is they don't bring it forward. So they're playing this other game. No, I'm good. But inside it feels like a whole different universe. So that's the part that I'm like, very cool.

The not bringing it forward part is like huge. Not just for yourself and your own experience, but I think as a teammate, like vice versa. But just because we were talking about it, if you're going through what you were going through at the beginning of the tournament and you weren't being honest about being nervous about feeling all of these emotions, it would have been extremely hard for me to feel confident and be able to just focus on my game and do my thing.

Because you can connect.

There's a huge disconnect. And whether it's like, I see through it or I don't or whatever, it's just like another layer of distraction. And I think I had so much admiration, and I was truly inspired by you and why I never felt any doubt about our journey. Because you were being so honest about it. If you weren't even being honest about it, then I'm like, we can't do anything with this. Like, doesn't matter if we're last place. Like, it's like, we literally can't move on because we're not even in reality right now. And so it was so encouraging to know how difficult that is, how much courage it takes to go through that, because I obviously went through that going into the semifinals and having my own moments of doubt. And that's a shit feeling. And I'm like, well, she's not hiding it. I'm not hiding it. That's not our culture. We're not doing that. And we're winners. Winners will be honest, and we'll do the hard thing.

So that shows again, that this collaboration, right, you brought that. You brought something. We brought the path, we brought the environment. I felt every time conversations goes, I felt that we were so prepared. We knew it. Everything that was coming to us, we knew it. We had the skills, we had the tool belt. And there was both of you that decide to use the right tool when.

You heard Mel say that she rose to the occasion. So my philosophy is people fall to their level of training. I think both of you see it differently, which is that we rise to the occasion. And I'm not sure how you see it, but I'm wondering. I do want to hear. I know how you see it, Brandon. I'm curious how you see it. But before we go there, coach, do people in your mind rise to an occasion or fall to their level of training?

Interesting.

The training that is impossible for a human being match the level of pressure and importance of the Olympic Games. You can try it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna get more caffeine. I'm gonna eat more. I'm gonna train more. That is absolutely impossible. Three Olympic Games right now, and then all three of them were totally different.

Completely different.

Completely different. So raise to that level. One, you're spending too much energy. You're not focused on what matters. It's not gonna work. But if you fall to your training, how you do things, how you communicate, what's the planning look like? It's not that you're safe. You're already ahead of everyone because they're trying to be focused on something that doesn't exist.

Totally. You know what? I actually do really agree with that, except for, I think, kind of what you mentioned. There's no way to mimic the experience of an Olympic Games or, like, the level of that pressure in training, no matter how hard you try. And so while I do believe, yes, 90% of what you train will show up. And that's kind of like the basis, that's how you build trust in the process. And, like, you trust your body of work 100%. But there are those moments that are untrained that you've never experienced before, like at an Olympic Games, and you really see what side of you is going to show up. And you see sides of you that you haven't seen before because you weren't able to train them in the moments where you were training them. So I think that's what I saw in Brandi, especially when I said those moments where she rose to the occasion. These were moments we had never found ourselves in before. And these were moments that we were experiencing, like, this level of grandeur, of just pressure, of the holistic, emotional human experience that I think really pushed us to limits at the Olympic Games that we hadn't felt. And so I think there were moments where you just had to see who was going to show up and who was going to rise to the occasion, which is why I said it like that. Yeah.

And I think it's perfectly. What's cool is like, each person on the team had a different philosophy. Going to the Games.

Yeah.

Is it going to be the biggest game ever, or am I going to treat it like just another game? And we talked about this, and it's. The naive approach is we're all going to have the same philosophical approach. Oh, yeah, that's naive. What's complicated is to know yours and embrace yours. And then when you wanted to change yours, be open to that, too. Right. Which was a bit of a risk.

Risk.

And that's way more complicated. And the full team had a conversation like, wait, you guys, are you2. You two athletes are seeing the Games entirely differently. And how are we going to manage that as a team?

That's my question for you.

That's what we're doing.

They have opposite answers.

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Okay. There's, like, naiveness, thinking we're all going to be the same, and there's the level of, okay, we're different, but then there's the level of, like, you didn't even get that.

What do you mean?

I feel like it switched between us.

That's right, you guys.

And so then it was, like, managing that.

Yeah.

What about that third level?

I had my hands full.

I'm still trying to figure that out.

Our hands were full. Yeah. But be concrete to the listeners. Like, what are you actually talking about?

Okay. Well, I definitely agree, and I'm glad that we talked about how we were going to approach the games. I think that was a very pivotal conversation. And to not have the naiveness, the thinking we're all here doing the same thing, especially with our different personalities. I think it reflected on. You wanted more of a. Like, every day I show up, like, this is just a regular day for me. This is what I do. Nothing changes, Nothing crazy here. Gorgeous things. Volleyball, sunset.

The same.

Exactly. And I'm like, I want this to be, like, a magical. This is the biggest stage. Like, are you the one. Like, the biggest moment, Huge emotions, fireworks every day. Like. But I think we realized halfway through the games that things were kind of switched where you were going through such beautiful, like, ups and downs and, like, became very big moments. And I. And that was the first time I cried at the Olympics, realized that I felt completely numb to the entire experience. And I was crying because I wanted so badly to feel big emotions. I wanted this to feel bigger than I could imagine. And I wanted to feel, like, unprepared almost, because I was like, I want to see something new happen. I want to go into the unknown. And everything felt regular degular. So I was, like, getting so mad because I'm like, are you kidding me?

I'm in turmoil.

You're in turmoil.

I'm all over the place.

And Brandy's chilling. Yeah. So the anecdote here, like, is that is the. The higher skill for all of us is to accept the moment as it is and navigate accordingly whatever it is. Right.

100.

Yeah.

I think that's the talk you had with both of us.

Yeah. I knew myself that if I had more people being like, oh, this is such a big game. Oh, this is such a big moment for you. It would overflow, and I would be overwhelmed with that. So I. And I told my team. I was like, let's just keep it chill. Meanwhile, Brandy was like, I need more. So I don't know how you guys navigated that, but I remember after our pool play where I was like, gosh, I don't think this is serving me, because I don't feel like I'm actually allowing myself to experience the magic of this opportunity we have and experience the Olympic Games and everything that it means, and it is big. And I think I was suppressing myself and, like, not allowing myself to live in the moment because of my philosophy. And so I think it was holding me back from, like, who I could be on the core and who I wanted to be and, like, what I could offer to my team and just, like, to myself. And so I think after that, I started to change my philosophy a little bit and be like, no, I'm just gonna accept it. The nerves, the butterflies, everything. Whatever I feel, I'm just gonna let it in, because, like, I think having the wall against it, it was just not gonna work.

I love that.

Mike, I have to ask this of both of you. She's saying that in the height of the Olympics, she was questioning her philosophy. And so much of the work that you do with corporate executives and athletes and students at USC is how to build and articulate a philosophy, a competitive philosophy, a personal philosophy. So if that's your anchor. And those evolve over time as we become different people in our lives, you don't expect them to evolve and change at the Olympics with everything on the line. So how do you coach and advise an athlete who's questioning her philosophy under.

The most pressure ever you can imagine? Like, what would you do, you know, if you were in my shoes there? And it's. I don't have a script for it, but it is feeling and talking it through. And, you know, it's two adults, like, okay, addressing, here's the Lego set. Like, you want to take it apart. Do you think you can put it back together? Like, is it just a couple pieces we're changing? And it was. It was just a conversation with her about what does she want to do? Then I was going to back her. Right. I think that's probably the more important piece, is that. So I come from. I'm trained classically as a psychologist with a Carl Rogers approach, and he's a humanistic psychology. And so Rogerian approach is to have an unconditional positive regard for the person. And I'll say those words again. An unconditional, positive regard for the person. So my fundamental belief is that everything she needs is already inside of her. And this is her life. This is. She's the one walking across the tape to get into the sand. And I'm going to examine and push and pull and. And. And hold up a mirror. But my fundamental approach is what you need was already inside you. And so what you need, what you were saying is, this isn't working, is it? Is it? Okay, what do you think? Can I shift this? Yeah, like, this is your life. And so we talked about, like, well, what are the pros? What are the cons? It didn't sound like that, but, like, let's examine it and then be a great teammate. Backer. Yeah, you know, that's kind of what it is. But it's holding up a mirror because I already. I fundamentally believe that each one of us, everything we need is already inside of us. That's the aperture idea. So when the aperture widens, your. Your. Your honest, true self emerges with all of the skills that you have built over time. Technical from Marcio, physical from strength and conditioning, psychological from a life experience, plus the specific work we did. And then that emerges to meet the demands of the moment eloquently and gracefully. And when you can do that, I don't know. That's. To me, that's a living masterpiece.

Beautifully said. But you don't have time for the Freudian approach to let her discover these herself.

That was a shorthand conversation. I don't know how long it was. Like 20, 20 minutes or something. Yeah, but it's resting on two years of, like, real work. And so, like, special operators, Marcio and I can be like, look at each other and be like, like, it's just a look. And when you have that look, it's. There's a shorthand. Like, oh, yeah, I know. I know where it's coming from.

So, yeah, I think. Interesting. And then bring to the listeners, too. You guys have no idea how much debris Mike Fiapo and I had every single time that we had a practice or every single time that we had a game or interactions or breakfast. Kind of like, again, figuring out what that Lego would be if I need to change here, changing there. And then for a coaching staff, having, like, that bounce wall was fantastic. Like, coming out of practice, like, what happened today, really? One is here. One is here. Like, what? But now he's here. Like, Mike, what do I do? Do I say something to this. And, like, we were kind of going back and forth and trying to find, you know, that unconditional support but not getting off the reality. Right. So the reality is this. Like, we need to find that balance. And then again, I can say that you guys bought in all the time. And then when you felt challenge, like, you guys, like, this is a challenge. Okay, Got it.

Oh, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, because it's support, then challenge. Yeah. And that was a thing that we all agreed on. Support, then unconditional positive regard is the support. I got you whatever you're gonna like. We're gonna. We're gonna. We said it. You said it day one. Yep. Which was like, look, after the games, we're gonna be friends. And there was radical challenge. It happened in our sessions, and it happened when you were on the beach. And then during the Games, like, there was one practice, I was like, damn, he's really giving it to us. And, you know, everyone knows when it's hap. And he's, like, grunted. Yeah. And so, like, that. That level of challenge. Iron ch sharpens iron. You can say a lot of different things. And I don't know how. I can't remember. Were you guys like, damn, or was it like, okay, good. We needed that. Because you were not performing in practice the way that it should be scripted. And I loved every part of it. Every part of it, because you did not back down. My. What we calibrated was that, like, you see them as badasses and, like, wake that dragon up. It was great. So your take, the way I remember.

That, I remember distinctly this debrief more than anything, because you made a point to bring it up and said, what did you think of Marcio's energy? And I remember in the debrief, Marcio, you kind of came at us a little bit, and you were kind of, like, upset with us a little bit in our attitudes of how we were experiencing that practice. And I remember in the moment that it was happening, I was frustrated. Like, in the actual practice and then in the debrief, when you asked how it was going or how I felt it after, I loved it.

The athletes give you the signs, what they need. It might not what you want to do as a coach. It might be not what the player wants, but they give you the sign.

So we'll go to the gold medal match. You're up against the number one team in the world for the past two years, Ana, Patricia, and Duda. And let's talk about the Mental preparation and the match itself, which, again, each one of these matches is a story in itself. The first set, you're in control most of the way, and towards the end, in the late teens, they make a run and they steal the first set. So take us through that match and the emotions you were feeling, and then we'll get to that one point where they had to play the Beatles to calm the whole crowd down. But let's go through the match itself.

They didn't have to calm the crowd. They had to come one out.

We're going to get to the real story. We've heard. We've heard, you know, the public explanations, but. But take us through the mental preparation of coming on the court, the three sets, and then we'll talk about finishing second. But I don't want to diminish. I don't ever want to diminish what you accomplished, because it was truly astounding. The story, we've spent time talking about it, but the arc of the story is what raises the hair on our arms. That's why we watch sports. So just give us the insider perspective of that match.

I felt aligned. I mean, that's where we'd seen ourselves so many times. And I have leaned on my mental fortitude and emotional belief and manifesting the world that I live in. And I've never really subscribed to other people's opinions or realities. So this was just so great to see it all align, what's actually happening in real time and what I've believed. I just remember the energy between Melissa and I is mostly just like it's time just to take it all. It's just time to get it done. We've gone through so much. We have so many tools, and we were prepared to do that.

I remember waking up the morning of the gold medal match, and it felt distinctly different than every other morning. Every other morning felt heavy. Every other morning felt like I woke up with butterflies immediately in my stomach. The morning of the gold medal match felt a little bit different. And I'm happy you said this because you mentioned freedom and free, and that's kind of like my ideal competitive mindset. That's like my space where I feel my most self on the court when I'm just free and, like, kind of feel very innate. And it's like a free flow. And I kind of had that energy that morning. And I remember we always did our team activation before, and we would sit down at the end and we'd go through. Mike would guide us through, like a visualization and a meditation, and we'd kind of go around with our team and talk about, you know, how we're feeling, if there's anything we wanted to bring up. And I remember I kind of brought it up where I. I was worried about how I was feeling kind of, like, maybe a little bit more calm or, like, a little bit more free. And I was worried that it would breed, like, complacency. And not because we were in the gold medal match, which is one of the biggest games I've ever played in my career, but that we had reached so many milestones along the way to get there. And also, if I looked back a week prior to where we were, when we were barely making it out of pool play, and I had so many doubts in my head about who. What I was able to accomplish and who I was showing up as to know that I could come from that place and make it all the way to the gold medal match. Operating that way. It gave me actually, like, a sense of peace that we overcame so many obstacles, and here we. Here we are. And so I said it to the team that I. And I was scared to say it because I didn't want them to think that I was, like, giving up because we already got a medal. And it was like, wow, we don't need to try any harder because we're here and we're just going to play super free or whatever. We already have a medal, meaning if.

You win, you win gold. If you lose, you take silver.

Right.

So there was already a medal guarantee just for.

Right, exactly. And so, yeah, I was kind of even myself kind of contemplating, like, what that feeling meant when I woke up. Like, okay, you know, we're here. I can be free. That was different than how I felt every other game before the Olympics. And I was like, I don't know how to. I don't know how to comprehend this feeling.

This is too good. Like, what do I do? I feel great on finals day.

Yes. And it's so funny, I think you said, oh, God, there's no other option but winning. I remember that. And it stuck with me. And it hit me hard as well, because that was also just, like, the energy. I knew where she was at, where her mindset was at, and, like, what we really believed we could accomplish. And then I remember your response to that was like, whatever happened, nothing changes about how I feel about this team, about you, about what you're capable of regardless of the outcome of this game. And I remember that was also very comforting. So I had, like, all These different perspectives coming in that morning of the game. And I was like, wow, this is like a whole experience before 10am.

And.

Now we have to go play the biggest game of our life at 10pm to sit with all these feelings all day. And then, honestly, the game is a blur for me still. There are moments I remember. There are moments that I still don't like thinking about. There are moments where I am proud of myself for. I haven't watched the game. It's one of the only games in my entire career that I've never rewatched. And I probably will watch it at some point, but I haven't yet. And then maybe it'll bring some clarity or some sort of, like, closure to that moment, but I still haven't watched it. And so the game itself, I don't really remember a lot of. I remember we had a big lead in the first set. I remember we won by a lot in the second set. And then the third set's a blur. But.

Yeah, it's a blur for me, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I remember. I mean, going into the game, I was not feeling my 10, 10%, but I was telling myself I was. So we're trying, but I remember the first set being up and, like, feeling like this is the sink, like, that we play at and this is what's going to take us to this gold medal. No sense of, like, oh, we're good. But it was like, the signs are there. I'm always looking for signs, always. And so then I remember the ending of the second set of first set, and I still have this very heavy feeling that, like, I was the reason why we lost that first set. I still can't even tell you exactly why, but I think I have. I know, and it haunts me. I have two distinct points. That was the first time I felt my body, like, disassociated from my mind just because I was struggling with my back so much. And then I really felt it in, like, two points, like, where I couldn't execute what I knew I could. What I envisioned. Like right before you do a hit, you see it, all these things. Like, everything's aligned for the whole Olympic Games. Two weeks, this point, I don't know what happened. Like, back gave up. Everything felt weird. And I was like, what was that? What the was that? And so then I was like, it's fine, it's fine. Shake it off. It's fine. Like, you'll get back into it. Do everything you need to do, get into that mindset again. And then it showed up again. And for some reason, I've decided that's why we lost the first set, which is so unreasonable, but it is. She decided I'm taking ownership. Nobody said that.

When you hear that, Mel, what do you hear?

I've never. It's been three months since the Olympics, and it never once crossed my mind that that was an option because for three months, I have been feeling the weight of that, like, oh, my God. And I almost started just going crying right now because that's been weighing on me so heavy for a long time. When you said that, it almost just like, I feel lighter. I think we're both. Even though we experienced. We had different roles in that game, we both experienced it in a similar way, but different. We both felt the burden of what that first set meant to us, which is crazy. And thank you for sharing that, because I feel like I can breathe.

Yeah. No, we've never talked about it. I guess I've never told literally anyone. So exclusive on this podcast, but I definitely feel like you should know that. And I. It was hard for me to just into my own game in my own world, to have that happen, because it doesn't happen very frequently. And then to then sit back the timeout and lose that and that set and just be like, what? And. And then the way you showed up the second set, I was like, front row seats to, like, this rodeo because it was crazy.

It was pretty special.

It was so special to see you just play, honestly, the best volleyball you've played, like, in the year, in the season, who knows? You played great every freaking game. But that game was extra special, especially from what you've come from. And I was more than happy to just, like, watch this happen and literally could care less what happened after because of how important I think it was for me as your teammate to see you go from where you started to where you were like, the amount of courage and just like, that's crazy shit. I think people need to know that story. And so, so great to be, like, right there with you watching that. And so that helped me to get out of my self with everything I was going through. So that's why the third set such a blur, because I was like, I feel like we were back to square one at that point.

Feel like we won.

I literally tell people gold sometimes. Like, I literally refuse.

Good.

It was a respectable game. I allow that.

Best game at the Olympics.

Yeah.

In all the sports.

But the two sets, I remember for two different reasons. And I'm glad you know that. You were badass that set. Because I know you've said it yourself, and you should be saying that, screaming it out to rooftops, but I commend you for that journey. It's amazing to see.

Thank you for sharing that.

Well, both of you can sleep, because I thought that was the worst coach in the world. So you guys can fire the coach because you guys were up 15 to 8, and we could not score a point all the way to the. The 21. And then I blame myself on that one. If you would score, like, one or two after the 15, it would be okay. So you guys are good. Just, you know, hang in tight.

It's too funny.

But it was a fierce game. I obviously am there to win, and I wanted to feel every emotion of it. And we were in a tough spot at that point. I remember just feeling like, oh, I can't get anything together. And then I get this ace. And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm back, like. And so if that radiates to everyone and she wants to take it personally, then it did. But that's why I'm totally. She's totally justified in her reaction for the next point when she stared through the net after an error, which is why I was especially. Because usually I don't pay attention to the other side. But, like, it was, like, an error, and then she cheered through the net, and so I was like, wait a second. First of all, you didn't do nothing.

And then, yeah, you made the mistake.

This is also, like, a really long time to be cheering. You're staring down. I think she was, like, staring you down or something. Mama bear. I got three younger siblings. I'm like, who are you talking to right now? That's my partner. And so then when we got into it, I get. If she. If she thought I was cheering through the net, she's allowed to react with that. If I think she's cheering, I'm allowed to react like that. And I do wish that it didn't get calmed down. I love the moment. For the moment, it's fun, and we can manage all the emotions no matter what happens. But I would have been very curious to see it continue that way because I have total faith in our team being able to control that. Like, I think I would have gotten angrier, and I play well when I'm angry. Melissa, you're super, like, locked in. You're already killing it, so I don't think you would have been phased by anything. She would have been super locked in. I think Anna Patricia also loves that energy. So it would have been a great battle. But Duda, I'm like, Even if it's 1% less, like, I'll take that. Like, it's the gold medal game. That's all you'll get. So it's like, I don't know. With the Ms. Serve right after, I was like, there's room. There's a little, like, breathing room here. Like, let's jump on it. So there was a lot of things going on, for sure. I did not think that that moment would go as viral as it did. That was insanity, wasn't it?

A great moment.

It was hilarious.

It was really. So just to be clear that there was a jawing between the net between you guys. It was intense, which is not the volleyball spirit. It's almost every other sport, but not volleyball. And I leaned over to Marcio, I don't know if you remember this, and I said, oh, she just woke up the Dragon. And I was like, this is where it's going to turn. I think we're down by two or something like that, right? And I was like, it's going to. Or maybe three. I was like, it's happening, and the game's only in 15. And I was really excited. And then there was this beautiful moment for the crowd. You already said it. Where? It was a Beatles song, I think. Which one was it? I forgot now.

Was it Imagine? They played Imagine Overdose.

Yeah. Yeah. How's it go? Go ahead. You're the singer.

You know, Imagine there's no hunger. Imagine all the people living life in peace.

Yeah.

And everyone starts cheering.

Everybody was, like, singing it. And it was a true Olympic magical moment. And I was like.

Thank you.

But I knew the dragon wasn't going away. But there was a. There was a moment to capture that you created out of, like, that agitated state that you're in. And it's cool. Yeah, you know, it was cool. Yeah.

I thought it was fantastic. And I. And as a coach, again, not big fans of officials and referees, I think they overreact today. They're like, oh, the referee came in between them. And then, you know, I think conversations through the net already happened before, but I blame the officials for what happened. Like, I think everything was totally fine and then escalating, pushing it back and forth, and I was like, wait, let's get the Dragon. Go.

The dragon was out.

Mike was like, this is it.

This is it.

You and my family.

Yeah, let's go. I think it might get missed, what Mel did.

Oh, tried to de Escalation.

No, Mel, you came over it was so reflective, intuitive, and you grabbed her hand during the entire thing. So you became, in that moment, the grounding force on the court. This one over here, the dragon was coming out, snorting and breathing all the fire you can imagine. They. I don't know them, but they were swept into your moment. Both of them were jawing back and forth, and you started the whole thing. So you're. You're. You're in control. And then you, in a different way, grounded the whole thing. You became the alpha, holding her hand, calming her down, or doing whatever you're doing. And I was like, both of our side, the net is dominant right now in two completely different ways. And I don't think that, like, I hope the listener can go back and just watch your hands. And what you did under the net, it was one of the most alpha moves I've seen in a long time. It was really cool.

That's so interesting. You say alpha.

Oh, yeah. That was the alpha moment because you had your alpha in a different way, but they were not in an alpha state.

That's what it felt like. Exactly. It felt like we had control of the moment where Brandy was, like, imposing and, like, making a lot of sense in her, like, imposition. And then I feel like I also was, like, coming in in my own kind of softer way, but also letting them know, like, you're not going to step on.

Oh, it was. Yeah. You weren't even trying to be like, Brandi.

No.

You were like, Yep.

Yeah, listen. Yeah, right. Yeah, it was great. Watch that back. And it'd be fun to just even have a conversation afterwards about what was happening for you. But, yeah, it was cool. It was. You guys were definitely in an alpha competitive state.

And so I've listened to Mike say the toughest finishes at the Olympics are fourth and second. And knowing how competitive you are, and you were so close. Can you just talk about the sweet and the bitter as opposed to the bitter and the sweet? Because it's just for those who watched and went on the ride, it was so sweet. But watching you come out, you know, I think they only gave you, like, 20 or 30 minutes from the end of the match to the podium. And then watching your faces on the podium, just take us through that emotion of what it is like to climb that mountain, to be so close.

I honestly think I'm still processing the emotions. I don't even know when that will fully be clear for me. But again, so much of it is a blur. Like you said, everything happened so quickly. Like, the ball dropped I was expecting this massive celebration from the other side. I don't even remember how we embraced. I don't even. I don't even remember a lot on it. I remember sitting where I was standing. I wasn't even sitting at our benches. And then we're getting told all these different instructions. We have to go do this media. We have to go change, and then we have to come back for the. And it was just. There was, like, no room to, like, settle or to, like, comprehend what was going on. I remember being, like, pulled by all these different people through this tunnel, and then we have to change, and then we're back out there, and then you're on an Olympic podium. And so that span of time, there were so many things. It was, like, total disappointment and total, like, sadness. A little bit of anger probably lingering from a moment, and then also, like, pride. And it's hard to describe how you can be all of those things at once, and there's no real word to describe how that feels. And then standing on the podium, again, very bittersweet. But it was an Olympic podium that we said we were going to be on two years before, and we were on it throughout. Incredible highs and lows. Just in those two weeks alone, let alone the two years that we went through with incredible highs and lows. But, yeah, we weren't hearing our national anthem, but we could hear and see, like, our team and our family and friends still there. And, like, watching us accomplish a dream of ours, it wasn't the ultimate dream, but accomplish something. To be so proud of making history for Canada in, like, three, four different ways and doing it together. I think those. That's what I can reflect on now and. And have it be like, fill me up, you know, like, really fill me up. I think it took me a while to get there. I think it is hard, especially when you really believe you can win and that we really could have, like, we definitely. There's no doubt in my mind still, so that I think that's the heart. If it was a blowout, okay, maybe we were a little far from it, but because we were there, we were. We played like, lights out. I had one of the. My better games of that Olympic tournament, and we still lost. So that was hard for me to also, like, take on the chin and look at myself in the mirror, be like, I played really well, and it still wasn't good enough. Like, there are all these kind of emotions that I. I settle with. But the one thing that Marcio said in our debrief, I think A month after the Olympic Games, that kind of helped me bring things into perspective was, you know, this. He's been to so many Olympics, and he's worked with so many different teams and has gotten a medal, an Olympic medal, with each of his teams that he's been to an Olympics with. What he said was like, I wouldn't trade the silver medal for a gold if it meant doing it with different people, doing it with a different group. And to me, he was like, we are. We are the gold medal. Like, this team. This is the gold. And so I think that, for me, allowed me to kind of, like, find peace in our journey and in that moment and, like, look at my silver medal and be able to be, like, so, so proud of this thing because of who I did it with. And so, yeah, there's still, like. There's still some. Some angst about the result, even though I know we talk about we're more than just the result. But I wouldn't change it again if it meant doing it with different people.

Yeah, very cool.

I'd agree that the suite is just how much of a human journey it was and how it's spoke to so many people beyond them remembering if it was gold or silver. That's incredible. And we set out to create a legacy for our country. We did have a historical result, and I was extremely proud of just being able to make it that far, being authentically and holistically myself. Hair, nails, attitude, friends. No friends. What I'm doing. Like, I did it the way I said I wanted to do it. And that was a goal I had set out for myself before partnering up with Melissa. So to still have the results also come through and validate that you can be exactly uniquely yourself was amazing. The not so sweet was pretty staggering for me. It's still something that haunts me here and there. I find myself still compartmentalizing to deal with that because I've lived my life just relying on my. Able to, I guess you say, frame or create a vision for myself and where I'm going and then follow through with that. To have integrity, to have the courage to do it and to take the risks and then to have it follow through. Things usually align at some point, and I can see that and feel that and fuel that.

That.

And then it's like someone taking this way you see life and the way you see yourself and your. Your religion and your mantra and just ripping it from you because we didn't win as much as that's what I said, and that's what I thought, and that's what I work to. And. And it was like gut wrenching to now be brought to my knees, like, maybe you don't have that skill, maybe you aren't that maybe. And it's like this questioning of my entire philosophy on life was brought up and that was hard to deal with. I think on the core it was just rage, just only rage. And I remember going up to my family after and I just could not smile, I could not look, I could not say anything. I was just like stone faced. Couldn't even wrap my head around that this was actually over and that we actually didn't do it. And I remember my youngest brother grabbing my face. Look at where you are right now. Look at where you are. And like kept screaming like, look at what you did. Look at where you are. So then I finally kind of like shook out of it and then like was able to kind of receive a lot of love and a lot of like passion and inspiration and being able to see all the pieces that came with it and just have so much deep gratitude for that that we could enjoy the podium moment because there was no other choice. Like, were you gonna be bitter up there? Like you gotta enjoy that. And it was the only time I had to do that. So I tried my best to show face and it's a lot of emotions also. Just like just the journey of representing Canada for me is also very interesting and I just to want, wanted it to just be so much better than a Silver even. That sounds crazy to say, but this is what I wanted and I'm like a little bit stubborn. I don't like when I don't get what I want. Like I'm going to do what I'm going to do to get what I want. But it was okay. I mean there were so many ups and downs for about a month, usually. Goodness. And then I think after a month I literally got depressed for about two weeks. That was really hard. I think I almost called you like three times and then that was hard. But luckily I have so many great support systems and people that I could talk to and really just be like, let it go. And then like nowadays I'm just like still finding the goodness in it and just believing in the larger purpose of why it happened the way it happened. I had asked to be shown what was going to happen and what truths we're going to be told and what path I was going to lead after this. And I knew that that was going to be a life changing moment for me. I was ready to receive that. But I think a part of me still was ready to receive it the way I wanted it and instead of just truly ready to receive. So I'm trying to lean back on that. And it's been really game changing though. And I have felt so much love and home and safety than I ever have before and for it to come out through the game. So it's very special. So it's thanks to you guys too. There was so much that helped me gain self awareness, body awareness and all of this practice and learning you guys have taught. And I think one of the biggest ones was labeling. Labeling has helped me so much just to be able to figure out my emotions and then like, if you are going to be feeling all sorts of stuff, just like understanding what was going on was very helpful. And I just find that what makes it worth being so vulnerable is for all the emotions that you can't label and that you can't put into words, and that is just so deep, deeply, deeply fulfilling and worth it for anyone that's debating vulnerability or not.

Yeah. What's riskier?

Can I just put a fan's perspective on this? Someone who got to go along on the ride. What a gift it was to watch you and your families and your boyfriend, you know, their stake in investment and wanting it for you and how much they love you and made us all feel part of, of of Brandy's block party. And, and you know, the smiling assassins team, it was something we'll never forget. And as Mike's taught our class and you know, coaches, we've talked to these matches at that level, at the elite top of the world, they're so hard to win and sometimes the game ends and you're just not in the lead. It has nothing to do with who you are, what you stand for, how you inspire us. In fact, the story of resilience and how you came back from near elimination is what we'll remember more than the color of your, of your medal. But as your friends and fans, we are just so enormously proud of you. It's been a privilege to do it, to know you and to follow this team. It really is a joy to watch them play.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys.

Next time on Finding Mastery. We're joined by Georgia Tzetis, a model turned entrepreneur who went from quietly panicking over hair loss in his 20s to building a billion dollar company, helping millions protect and regrow their hair without the side effects. So what actually stops hair loss and what doesn't? Join us to find out on Wednesday, September 24th at 9:00am Pacific only on Finding Mastery.

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