Why Young People Can’t Get Ahead Anymore

The red hot clearance event is on right now at Burlington and I'm excited for the markdowns. It's all about savings on top of savings throughout the store. This is when I stock up on styles for my closet home decor and much more because there's up to 70% off other retailers prices on clearance. I mean I'm going every day because these prices too hot to miss. Burlington deals. Brands, wow. Styles and selections may vary by location.

Don't miss Blinds.com's 4th of July mega sale. Happening now. Save up to 50% plus get a free professional measure. Blinds.com invented a better way to shop for window treatments with upfront pricing, no showroom markups and no salespeople in your home. Choose from classic shutters to outdoor shades and more, all backed by our 100% satisfaction guarantee. Don't miss blinds.com's 4th of July mega sale. Save up to 50% plus get a free measure. Rules and restrictions may apply.

Thank you listeners. If you have any questions, send them to mailbagandrewyang.com you can even send them as a voicemail. We're listening. It's my Frasier invitation. Thank you. This week on the Andrew Yang podcast, if you trace the numbers, you see that there's been like a multi decade shift towards megacorps and certain actors and certain geographies. Even there, there is no recourse because AI is going to create a super vortex of data, money and AI itself that's going to hoover up more and more of the value and they're going to be folks that benefit from that. But that number of folks is going to be smaller and smaller and then most people are going to be looking up being like, what the hell happened?

Right?

Happy summer 2025. I'm here with Zach who's dressed for the summer.

My pants blend with the chair. But it's good to be back, folks.

We were joking that he looks like one of those camouflaged characters when he walks out of the wall.

I'm dressed for summer. You're in your uniform, but it's cool.

My uniform wears a dig. That's a good dig.

I know it's great in this uniform. Years ago, I'm partial to it.

So. Welcome back, Zach. Good to be back, people. Always excited to hear from you. First, we're gonna do a bunch of Q and A from our listeners and thank you for keeping up. Hopefully these questions are interesting for everyone. Yeah, we get a lot of good.

Reviews when I come on and I, I don't, I don't Think it's me? I don't think that as a personal compliment. I think it's because you have a lot of fans and you get to be the subject of these interviews. You know what I mean? Instead of you interviewing someone else, it's you, Zach. Okay? It's all me. All right? We got questions, or you got questions, we got answers. I paraphrased our producer, Daniel, paraphrase a lot of these because some of you guys write long ones. Okay. This is Caden from Colorado. Caden asks, my name is Kaden. I'm a junior high student working on a research project about the American dream. How do things like income inequality affect the American dream? And how do you think Gen Z and millennials see the American dream differently? I would even be curious about boomers and Gen X, too.

Well, thank you for the question. I think that income inequality and the American dream are very, very tied together. Because the American dream generally in my mind, is about kids like you living a better life than their parents. And most of that is money. Now, there are some aspects of the American dream, too. When people hear the term American Dream, some people think something like home ownership or white picket fence, you know, like a little plot of your own. And my friend Scott Galloway has been pounding the payment, saying, look, we are really shafting young people like you, unfortunately. Caden, right?

Yeah.

And he's right. I was saying the same thing when I was running for president back in 2019. 2020. And it's gotten a lot worse since then. And one of the things I was making a case for was that AI was going to make things a lot worse for the aver American, which I think is happening as we speak. That there is now data that indicates that AI is eating entry level white collar work and big companies are hiring fewer recent college graduates. So you have to kind of have your head in the sand to not think, okay, like, something dramatic has to happen if we're going to actually refashion the American dream. And I mentioned Scott because last year at ted, I gave a TED Talk on how to fix democracy, which was number seven. And then Scott was number one with how young people is shaft. Young people are getting shafted in the US Economy. Right. And when we were at ted, Evelyn was there, and Evelyn was like, ooh, like, people are gonna love his talk. And then be like, oh, yours is fine too. I was like, oh, you know? But it was interesting seeing Scott's talk because a lot of the data was actually stuff that I was talking about for sure a few years ago. And it's just gotten a lot, lot worse. So I think part of this question is trying to distinguish between millennials and Gen Z and their interaction with this. And so Gen Z has a big advantage that you guys have more time. All things being equal, having more time.

Is good because longer time to generate wealth.

Yeah. Longer time to benefit from various things. Will things be rosier for Gen Z than millennials? Like, gosh, I really don't know. I'm Gen X and there have been stories that have come out recently, I will say, like, you know, it happens to us all. Do you, you're a millennial.

I'm an elder millennial.

And when you see one of those clickbaity stories about millennials, do you click? Sometimes I tend to click on Gen X type stories because I'm like, ooh.

Gen X, what we're supposed to be doing.

So apparently Gen X has had it not so great for a number of reasons. Like we grad, there was a recession at the time. And then trials and tribulations where it's.

Like, it's like me, a millennial, watching the third once in a lifetime economic collapse occur in my lifetime, like things like that. But yeah, we've had a lot of 2008, Trump, we've got World War 3 was trending a couple weeks ago. There's a lot.

I don't foresee things being any better for Gen Z, but at least you have some time for something to break, right? And I'm of the belief, like, I'm a numbers guy. I think the market based economy is going to get grimmer and grimmer for people, generally for young people in particular, because costs have crept up, your opportunities aren't keeping pace and then now the opportunities are going to get sledged by AI. There are all of these stories about how coders are losing their jobs and tech companies are both hiring less and stealth laying people off. And these were the most secure, sought after jobs and fields like you know, last year, more or less. In my opinion, the only way to reverse these trends that are happening in the economy comes via the government. And I'm someone who loves entrepreneurship, loves enterprise, loves people getting out there and building things and doing awesome stuff. But if you trace the numbers, you see that there's been like a multi decade shift towards megacorpes and certain actors and certain geographies even. And there is no recourse because AI is going to create a super vortex of data, money and AI itself that's going to hoover up more and more of the value and there are going to be folks that benefit from that, but that number of folks is going to be smaller and smaller. And then most people are going to be looking up being like, what the hell happened? You know, like, now the trucks drive themselves so they don't stop at the truck stop. So what happened to the people who used to work at the truck stop? Like, there's all. There's going to be all sorts of very dystopian stuff going.

I was thinking about, and we've talked about this on this podcast about men and the plight of men and what's going on with masculinity in the United States right now and globally. But it's. I was thinking about like, so life happens, right? And I say that as I said, like, sometimes bad things happen. People get sick, your kids are doing xyz, you go through a tough patch in your life. And I've been fortunate if I was struggling with something or life is happening, I've usually had a job at the time to pour into or focus on or keep building, etc. And when these economic. If the economic path forward isn't there and life is happening, men tend to handle it very poorly. And it's something like, what can the government do? The government needs to set this economic vision for the country. And I don't want to say create jobs, not the answer, but like, let's call it an ecosystem where jobs are being created.

It's one reason why various administrations have been focusing on creating manufacturing jobs in the US and by the way, not coincidentally, two thirds of manufacturing jobs are occupied by men. And like you said, if you have a job that's sustaining you and in some cases distracting you, then you know, you can handle ups and downs in your personal life in a different way than you're going through some stuff personally. And then you, like, also, you know, like, you know, you don't have a paycheck coming in, etc. Etc.

Right.

I totally agree. And the data shows that men deal with idleness.

They're not well.

Yeah, yeah. Not well. Women, you're good at it because, like, the observation I make is that you're never that idle.

Like unemployed women volunteer more, do more.

Things, go back to school, higher levels, men much less.

So do you think is the silver lining with all the chaos we're seeing right now, both economically, politically, is the silver lining that will inevitably get to universal basic income because of this, like, somewhat faster? Not as fast as we wanted, obviously.

When we ran, but I think the case is getting stronger all the time. Because AI is displacing so much work. And Dario Amade, the CEO of Anthropic, came clean and was like, yo, we're going to get rid of the entry level white collar job, so you should probably tax us more. And, and Dario and Anthropic are among the more conscientious actors in the space. I think. I think we do get there. And even the Trump administration is starting to make gestures of a particular type around giving every baby 1,000 bucks. I think there is an appetite for, for some pro, like child tax credit measures. You wind up at universal basic income. Like, I always thought you'd wind up there. Either the easy way, the hard way.

I think that's a little bit the hard way.

No, I think it's. We're trending towards the harder way.

Yeah.

And that makes me deeply sad because some of the things that are happening out there, you know, it's like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube or like, you know, like when things get out that you. It's hard to reverse it. And one of the things that's out that I suppose we can talk about is political violence. The shooting of the Minnesota state legislators and their spouses, the deaths of, you know, one of them and their spouse. I mean, it's really, really horrific. And that is going to. It's going to put a chill in our politics. And the question is, is this the precipitating event where people actually decide to say, okay, whatever we've been doing is not going well? We have to ease the rancor, ease up on the rhetoric, reduce the polarization? Unfortunately, most. No one is very optimistic about that, in part because our current president is one of the progenitors of inflammatory rhetoric and whatnot. I mean, they made a very positive statement about how horrifying these deaths were, these shootings.

Right.

But no one imagines that this is like, you know, a complete transformation because there's like a very, very hostile atmosphere.

This episode is brought to you by San Pellegrino.

Ciao.

A new kind of flavor, sparkling water, the kind made with real fruit juice, a pinch of Sicilian salt, and the sparkle of the Italian sun with no added sugar and just 10 or less calories per can enjoy with love from Italy by San Pellegrino. Ciao.

Now.

I'm curious your thoughts on this. So, yeah, we're recording this a little earlier than this drop, but so the protests in LA were making a lot. There are a lot of protests around the country, but the ones in LA were making the Most news, I think there was a video going around that was showing, I don't know the truth of this. I don't know the average age of the protester, but there was a video going around showing that the protesters were older in age. It wasn't what tends to be a lot of protesters, like young people with time on their hands or pissed about their economic futures. You had a lot of older protesters, certainly a lot of these. Are you. I'm curious your thoughts on this, because I think one of the things I've seen with Millennial and Gen Z is that they're somewhat. They're getting numb to this. They're, you know, they had the Obama wave, you had the Bernie wave, you had the Trump wave, etc. But then you start to see, like, okay, meet the old, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Like, we keep getting these political movements that nothing actually fundamentally changes, but older folks are still in some ways out there protesting, fighting the good fight. I'm curious if you have seen a generational difference in terms of how people are getting politically active.

Well, you know, I'd be fascinated about the response. You know, I think you left one out, which was George Floyd. Oh, yeah.

See, I mean, I left out a bunch. He had Covid.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of things. And I think one of the insights that some young people might have is that this popular will is getting dissipated by our dysfunctional political system in a particular way. Yeah, it's like, let's say a bunch of people come out and advocate for a particular policy. Let's call it, you know, common sense gun regulation, which, you know, I mean, that. That was. That was a very, very avid protest. Yep. And then you think and say, okay, what was the policy that resulted? And everyone looks up and it's like, none. And the reason why there was none is that legislation in that case is controlled by, like, you know, set of legislators that unless you change what happens in a Republican primary in red state, they just never vote for it. And so you can do whatever you'd like to, but if you don't change that dynamic, you're sort of wasting your time. And this is, by the way, the subject of my TED Talk, which was like, hey, if you really want to change things, you got to change the.

Incentive structure and the mechanic, the plumbing.

And one of the biggest fictions in American life now that some people might be seeing through is that a popular demonstration or popular will is going to all of a sudden wake our legislators up and be like, oh, my gosh, wait, you guys are really upset about this. Let's do something about it. You know, so if you can take down the list and be like, hey, what was the result? I mean, there's something dark. And I read a story which I happen to agree with, was that that Trump is thrilled by the protests.

Yeah.

Because he's going to look at them and say, ooh. You know, it's like, ooh. Seem very rambunctious, very disorderly, like, let me maybe impose law and order. And then the spectacle and the, you know, tug of war for the National Guard in LA and in other places. And some people have observed and said, wait a minute, this administration is doing a lot of unpopular things that are probably going to make them underwater for the midterms. Why do they seem so cocky about it? And then the answer is, like, maybe they think that they can cancel elections in certain places. Like, maybe they think they can. You know, so, like, and then someone looks at me and is like, no, no, it's impossible to be like, is it? Like, you know, so to me, like, the more energy out there in this environment, my personal take on it is that we're being manipulated, we're being set up for sure. And that you have to kind of get savvy about, okay, like, what do I actually want to see happen? How can we make it happen? And one of the secrets I've been clued into from my friends in D.C. is that if you yell at them to make something happen, you'll often reduce the chance of it happening because they cannot capitulate to your yelling or because then it makes them seem, quote, unquote, weak or soft. And, like, the only way to get something done in real life is to be like, you know, whisper, whisper, nudge, nudge. And then they do it. Something very. And then, like, no one even gives them credit, like, because. And then if you give them credit, then they'll be like, oh, I had nothing to do with that.

The earned child tax credit is a perfect example. This thing goes under the radar, eliminates child poverty, gets taken away, brings child poverty back, et cetera, et cetera. And you don't hear a lot of press about it. You know what I mean?

I mean, our friends are working on that. And so one of the dangers in this political environment is. And this is something I learned, too, in a very particular way. It's like, I've got a certain amount of energy around me. Some people obviously very motivated and galvanized by something I do. But then there's some other people that might be, like, move the other direction for whatever reason because of, like, you know, that's true of just about every actor for sure. Like, you know, it's like, again, you don't want to tell people not to express themselves. But I do think that some people are wising up.

I have a rule of thumb. My rule of thumb is if it makes me mad, I'm not thinking clearly about it. When it comes to politics, like, if it's. If you're reading an article and you're getting all pissed off, you want to fight, etc. They're probably doing that intentionally. There's probably some frankly, like, media forces or company for whatever it is, looking to incentivize you to get all pissed off and show up at a protest instead of the real problem, which is plumbing and less sexy or etc. Etc.

Or, shoot, man. I mean, we made our stand. It's like the real problem was Joe Biden not having a primary in 2024.

Yeah.

Like, if you wanted to prevent all this, have a primary. Yep. And then you, me, Dean Phillips, the gang were there in 2024. I mean, if there was a time to protest, that was the time.

Protest.

You know, back when it was like the DNC being like, no, nothing to see here, to see here.

Do you think it's laziness? Do you think, like, a lot of people didn't, like, were happy with, like, not paying attention enough to think, like, Joe thinking Joe was still put together and could beat Trump again? You know what I mean? And I don't mean laziness. Like, we just don't want to think about politics that often.

It's, in my opinion, tribalism and manipulation as opposed to outcomes. So you, me and Dean were focused on outcomes. We're like, hey, I kind of want America circa 2025 to have a certain type of president with maybe certain types of outcomes for people. We were focused on the people and the results. And so we're like, well, clearly the path to get there is not run.

Not this one.

Yeah. Not run. Doddering Joe, who's going to hand it back to Trump. You guys should run someone else. But most of the actors, particularly in the political media context, aren't focused at all on what's going to happen to ordinary people. Right. Like, they're focused on. It's like, oh, career. Yeah. Or there's the president. President says this. Then like, it's like, oh, you know, you're going to break up the party. It's like, am I really, maybe that's a good thing.

Like, you know, or it's like, you.

Know, the party, party loves to lose. And so, and then even now you're seeing like that there's, you know, like the paying of consultants to like learn how to talk to men. I mean, God, it's so like there's like this real distance between people and outcomes. And so if you were focused on people and outcomes, you know, a totally different approach, by the way, I would level the same thing, you know, to Trump's Republican Party. It's. Oh yeah, they're not focused on people and outcomes.

They're focused on appearance, executive control, seemingly.

Yeah, like vibes control, profiting, you know, loyalty. And they, they do a great job of making those phone calls, by the way, and being like, hey, get on board with our appointee or it's going to be curtains for you. I mean like that, that stuff's definitely happening. Yeah. What's the next question?

Let's do the next question.

Well, it was a very long thanks for your question.

Kaden got us going. This next question is from Dan. Dan says MAGA has been able to take advantage of online personalities that shape people's thoughts and beliefs to lean their way. What do you think those who feel the MAGA ideological stance is bad must do to build an online presence that rivals what they have? Does there also need to be a counter to the many radio personalities that lean MAGA as well?

So this is the liberal influencer question. Question.

Argument.

Argument, yeah. And so here's my perception of it. You had a Democratic aligned media industrial complex that consists of, among others, New York Times, msnbc, cnn, most of the major publications, Post. Yeah. And then you had this Internet counterculture arise that is just anti institutional. And so one of the traps for Democrats is to be like, hey, we're like business as usual institutions, educated, coastal. We've got it going on. Listen to us, we're very professional, we wear suits, et cetera, et cetera. And then the YouTube crew generally is going to be comedian, countercultural, inquisitive, like, what the heck is going on there? It's just, you know, obviously, because if you live in a world of establishment media and you're looking to build an audience, then you would build something on the opposite side. One of the biggest problems to me for the Democratic Party is that there were a lot of this alternative media crew that in my opinion was genuinely up for grabs, like thinking that they all lean right or whatnot. It's like, you know, do they like now did they end up, for the most part, going with Trump in this past cycle? Yeah, most of them did. And there were a number of reasons for that, in my opinion. Like, you know, big reason was the Democratic Party was not, in my opinion, making a great case.

Hypocrisy and lack of authenticity and things like that.

Yeah. And not showing up for more than a certain number of interviews or whatnot.

Don't get me triggered.

Yeah. And then there was some real outreach in the MAGA crew where they'd show up and be like, hey, let's make friends for hours. So for folks who are non maga, and I'm obviously in that universe, to me it would be identifying various voices who are naturally like, like non, non maga, not trying to create them would be, you know, point number one. There's a guy who comes to mind for me in this convo. His name's Pablo Torre, who used to be in espn. And so he's like, you know, very non maga in my opinion. And one thing he said to me when I got together with him recently was he was like, you know, who follows me? Young men. Yeah, you know, like exactly the kind of audience that we're talking about, Democrats. Like, oh, how do we talk to young men? It's like you just freaking get Pablo a call or like, you know, go, go see his programming and see what he's doing. What you have to do if you're the Dems. My opinion is accept first that a lot of these folks are alternative media because there's an alternative and so they'll end up being kind of anti institutional. And then you have to make the case to the anti institutional folks, like, look, you might not love politics, you might not love all this stuff, but like, you're certainly not on board with them. So like, let's do more together. Let's find ways to work together. Part of it is that the Democratic establishment is very, very risk averse and does not want to play with anyone who's even somewhat yes, borderline yes. They don't have an expansionist approach.

That is the right answer. I agree big time. Well, so I think I've mentioned this on this podcast before I went Harvard University does a campaign manager summit at the end of a presidential campaign. And so I was the probably the lowest person on that invite list with as running Dean's campaign. But I got to go to this.

Thing long shot, wrote a book about the campaign and that was his ticket to Harvard.

So I go to this thing after the 2024 election. And generally I was. So you have the, you know, the campaign managers from all of them, but then you had the campaign managers from the Trump team and the Kamala Harris team. And I was very. The Trump team, I would say, whether you like him or not, their team was wildly competent, wildly intentional, had a plan, executed a plan. I was deeply disappointed with the. Not competence because I thought they were generally competent people, but the lack of sort of creative thinking and innovation from the, from the Democratic Party. So I didn't get much from them in terms of things they said. But one of them said something really interesting about. Because this question came up from the students, because they did like an open part of it too, with Harvard students or Harvard guests. And they asked, hey, the right is like killing us on alternative media. What can the left do? And the guy said something really interesting. He's like, and this ties to the Righteous Mind, Jonathan Tate's book before the most recent one, he's like, the thing is that the right wants to do sort of anti establishment. They're gonna, if you're voting, if you're a Republican, you lean that way, you're gonna be leaning towards anti establishment alternate voices, distrusting sort of government or institutions. And the left tends to crave that institution and want that trusted voice. And what the point he was making is like, the problem is not somewhat the lack of voices. There are, there's some. That's some of it. But the main one he was saying was that if you're a Democrat and you lean that way, you actually want that institutional voice to tell me what the truth is. You want the New York Times be like to say, this is my reality. You want some sort of entity saying, this is what just happened. And the problem is particularly younger generations and younger men who may skew a little right or skew more moderate or a little less Democrat. They're like antitrusting in these institutions. And most young people are very anti establishment because they've been beaten, burned by so many institutions, so many have failed them. And so they're craving a new trusted voice of truth.

By the way, even the fact that it was hosted by Harvard, Harvard's like the ultimate institution. And by the numbers, two thirds of Americans aren't going to be college grads. And so if you're one of the things I always say when Democrats ask me this, and they do ask me this a fair amount, I was like, look, just put yourself in the shoes of a man who did not attend college and just imagine your reaction to all of this stuff. Because if you're a man who did not graduate from college, you don't necessarily think the institutions are exactly looking out for you.

Correct.

And then like you said, or like this person said, it's like Democrats crave, like an institutional halo. And the fact that Harvard was the host of this thing is like, you know, I mean, again, yeah, yeah, they have the halo and the institutions are losing. I mean, this is a time of institutional mistrust. So. So to Dan's question, what you would really do and the Democrats, in my opinion right now, don't have this approach is like, what they would do is they throw their arms around people who are not institutional, but also, like, are not Team maga, You know what I mean? Like, it would be like. And there's like a whole set of figures that fall into this realm, but like, that set of figures doesn't necessarily want to mix it up with politics in the, in the first place. And so you'd have to really, you know, I mean, you'd have to do some work because like, those folks. Now, an exception to one of the names that popped into my head is like, Mark Cuban to me is like not a Democrat or a Republican. He's an independent. But he. The Democrats threw their arms around him, were like, hey, Mark, can you do stuff? And Mark tried, and I appreciated a great deal and I thought it was great. But I mean, you know, just use myself as a direct example. It's like, I'm a non Trump independent figure. I'd openly endorsed Kamala because I don't think that Trump is the answer. And the Democrats wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole because I'd said so many mean things about Joe Biden. And by the way, I actually got that message through various channels. It's like I had, quote, unquote, crossed the line so that the Kamala campaign couldn't use me because the Kamala team was the Biden team. And so I'm gonna ask anyone listening to this, it's like, hey, what am I trying to do? Am I trying to enforce particular guidelines or am I trying to win? And I'm not saying that Andrew Yang was like, you know, gonna transform the race or any of that jazz, but, you know, I'm clearly like, you know, additive. So if you're in their position and your only goal is to win and deliver for the American people, be like, look, he said mean things about our guy, whatever, pass the past. Let's go. Because he clearly does not want Trump. But the Democrats are much more concerned with their culture maintenance and enforcement than they should be. You know, it's like, if you're just like, hey, my goal is to win.

What?

You said something mean. I don't care what I mean. Heck, I'm going to take it the next level. And this is something I'd also said, take RFK Jr. Into the fold. Like, you know, you'd spent months sticking it to that guy, like trying to, you know, man had a genuine following. If your goal is to win, be like, hey, rfk, like, let's get to the bottom of why kids are sick together. The Democrats would not even take his call. And you can think what you think about RFK like that. And it's like, it's like the man had a following and he had a message and a message that people like. Yeah, and your goal is to win, by the way, too. And so one of the things I'd actually, you know, and so like, you know, one side wouldn't take his call. The other side was like, sure, come on in. So, like, what's the, you know, what's the move? The.

I think it's three things, man. I think the Dems are doing three things. One is proactively seeking out and promoting these sort of alternative voices. That's number one, which I would include Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Scott Galloway. I'd include you. Like, there are folks, Barry Weiss and the Free Press.

That's a very big up the middle.

Yes. Where it's, it skews left. It can be very liberal. Like, I think Scott and Kara Swish's pivot podcast, like goes pretty liberal, but it's rational, it's authentic. You may disagree with them, but they come at it like real human beings. Like, that's. I think that's one. Two is, I think your mainstream media outlets got to get more real. And that may never happen, but mainstream.

Media is shriveling and dying.

Right. And, but there's, there's certain level authenticity and honesty that they've been lacking and self reflection. And then they could do it. You know, they have. The platforms are still real, at least in terms of their halo. And then I would say three is you have to, you have to win back the folks that you lost. And that's not an impossible task. And what I mean by that is, is Joe Rogan was a Bernie Sanders liberal. Yeah. Andrew Schultz, I think he leans right, but Bernie Sanders is on there and laid out the entire like, sort of leftist populist agenda. And Andrew Schultz essentially agreed with all of it. Like These folks are branded as like alt right and crazy maga. And that's not actually true if you listen to them for a couple minutes. Honestly, by the way too, it's like.

Someone asked me about the Democrat and I was like, look, just like watch their programming for three months, like get a sense of it. And most Democrats, like I don't want to do that and be like, then it's. Yeah, then it's already over.

Yeah, see you later.

You know, you have a sense of their program because I, I like a lot of these folks and they were attracted to Bernie because he was, he was anti institutional in part, like they would have.

And most of them will say, like, I'll have a Democrat on any time. And the debt, like that's the thing the Dems don't have. Many don't have a vision. They're offended by the messenger too much.

And they're risk averse. They're like, look, I don't need to get those people. I just need to like, you know, win internal party machinations.

And I'll give Gavin Newsom credit. I don't love Gavin Newsom. I got plenty of thoughts on this diet. But him doing, he did a podcast with Steve Bannon. No, Charlie. What's his name?

Kirk.

Charlie. Kirk, like great. You know, like go toe to toe with these guys. If you believe that we should be in charge. You got to get into the frickin fire. It drives me nuts. We don't do it. Like Liz Warren, if she's so passionate about her stuff, should be on that stuff. She should be going now. I don't think. I'm not sure she can handle it, which is probably.

No, it's just like not a good fit. And this is like the, it's like at this point a lot of folks really like have their tribal lane.

Yeah.

And, and then there's some, there are some folks, whoever, you know is the Democratic Party nominee, one of their responsibilities is going to be to try and expand it. The problem is that expanding it may or may not help you within the Democratic primary itself. And so there's going to be this, there's going to be this like, hey, like I gotta get the nomination. And then after I get the nomination, it's like, oh, hope you chose the right person who can.

There are Democrats voting primaries a lot that get offended by Joe Rogan or offended by Theo. And that is part of the problem too. And we get back to this all the time. Or just have to fix primary system, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why, you know, if you have an independent primary, you'd have like a different, different story. Maybe vote on your smartphone.

Yep. Mobilevoting.org mobile voting big believer.

NASCAR is coming to Richmond Raceway this August for a late season clash at one of the sport's most historic short tracks. The truck series will get things started on Friday night with a field full of hungry drivers looking to make a late season statement. Then on Saturday, fans will enjoy a full day of tailgating fun before the cup series takes to the track for 300 miles of intense short track racing under the lights at Richmond. Don't miss out on NASCAR weekend at Richmond Raceway, August 14th through the 6th. Get your tickets now at Richmond Raceway.com.

Olivia in Illinois, by the way, Dan, thank you for the question. Good question. Olivia in Illinois. Ooh, here we go. We, we have, we gave a little bit of this, but we can dive in a bit more. Do you have any thoughts on Trump's use of ice and the recent protests around the country? Why do you think Congress is allowing this to happen instead of reforming the immigration system? And I maybe I'll give this context for this question is that outside of the current part, primary dynamics too, there's some other bigger things at play besides.

The ice Rays make me super sad. But part of the issue is that they're meant to be spectacle. In part, I think I saw the numbers where it's like the actual numbers of deportations may or may not be that dissimilar from some of the things that have gone on, but it's just that they like, they do it in a way that's much more inflammatory.

And the press is going crazy over time.

And the press is going crazy now. I'm someone's like, and really this sums it up in my opinion. There's like a Missouri community where like a Hong Kong woman's gotten deported, like mother of three. And everyone's like, carol, you deported Carol. Like, what the heck? Because Carol hadn't done anything. Is that your technicality? And so the folks in Missouri was very, very Trumpy community. We're like, look, we voted to expel the gangs, not Carol.

Correct.

And so that's what I think most Americans would be comfortable with is like, if you show up and you're like, hey, violent criminal deportation time. Everyone would be like, thank goodness. Should have happened a while ago. If you just start grabbing random families, then it's like, what the heck? And then you make a spectacle of it. And so the ICE raids make me super sad. The protests very, very you know, like natural, heartfelt, human. Because you, you know, you see there's.

Plenty of reason to protest.

Yeah, yeah. Being like, you know, like torn apart and thrown into vans for like strange technicalities or you know, years long, like.

You know, non violent people with masks and pull off this like coming out and pull people off the street. Like that's not what frankly the rational middle was voting for this past cycle.

And so the, yes. And so the, the question is about whether what Congress could and should do. So what Congress could and should have done years ago under, by the way, you know, recommended there's a guy named Marco Rubio who's currently our Secretary of State, was bipartisan immigration reform with a path to like multi year path to citizenship for folks like years and years paying taxes, like, you know, keep your nose clean, etc. Etc. Like missed that opportunity over the last gosh, like decade plus. And then you wind up in this situation and unfortunately like this Congress passing something along those lines would be like way, way beyond the pale because Trump ran on like, you know, I mean, he'll say like on a, on a fairly like harsh version. And then like the MAGA Congress would be like, hey, this is what the American people voted for. I always have been under the belief that mass deportations are totally unfeasible and impractical and also would be like vastly destructive. And I was trying to even imagine what proportion of Los Angeles residents are undocumented or like restaurant workers. And it's like, it'd be very, very substantial to a point where, you know, if you imagine what wholesale enforcement looks like, it would be incredibly destructive. But it's not just that community. I mean, we're in New York. It would be incredibly destructive.

Most cities.

This to me is like, it's like a very dark sign of the times and it's less about problem solving and more about appearance. And that's one of the things too about some of like the ICE and immigration actions have been like, hey, this is goose the numbers. And if someone shows up and it's like, oh, technically I could get you undocumented. It's like, have I done anything? Doesn't matter, like, let's just do it. And so, you know, one of the things that's interesting about this to me is that in my opinion, a lot of Americans voted for Trump because they were anti unfeeling bureaucracy. And then what they really have is like this unfeeling bureaucracy that's applying rules in a way that folks are like, wait a minute, like what what the f. Like, there's, like, no judgment being employed here. Why you, like, why are you deporting Carol, the, like, you know, beloved mother of three? Like. Like, you know, like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, you know, we should. And it's like, oh, it's unfeeling bureaucracy. It's like, who knows? There's some rule. And, like. And then you could tell, too, that they make it deeply personal sometimes when they're like, oh, you know, we really don't like this person, this actor, this firm. They ran afoul of us, so let's go deep after them. So in that sense, they're not an unfeeling bureaucracy, because occasionally they'll be like, oh, we've got enemies. Punch list. We're going to go after you. But then other folks, it's like, hey, you know, rules are rules, even though the rule doesn't make sense.

This is a classic. I don't know if I've ever talked about this. This, to me, is a classic line problem. And it's one of the things I think Democrats have to struggle with, because there's usually a moral line on these policies, and the right just gets to draw it as far as they want. And the left, who's trying to push the line, struggles with drawing their own line. So that the simplest example would be marijuana. Okay, legalize marijuana or not legalize marijuana. The Republicans for years were like, marijuana bad. It's the devil's lettuce. It's illegal. Keep it out, it's sinful. Blah, blah, blah. Don't. Don't have it be a legal drug. The left was trying to push that line. So they're like, make it legal. Do all the things. Make it as legal as possible. And what's the truth? The truth is we probably should regulate it a little bit. We probably shouldn't have people driving cars and heavy, heavy machinery while really high. We probably should be able to tax it and not have you want to drive some revenue off it and, like, regulate who's selling it and make sure people aren't getting stuff that's laced, et cetera, et cetera. But that's not a fun sell for the Democrats. And so you end up in this. When you have these sort of line problems, it gets really tough to make change on the left, per se. For immigration, the right gets to say, don't let people in that don't belong here. Kick the criminals out and, like, hardline on immigration. And if the actual truth, the story is like, hey, we have Too many people here. It has to be a pathway to citizenship. And we also have to have a strong border. The left is gone. Let everybody in. That's what they're doing.

By the way, it really pains me how the politics of immigration have changed over the last, let's call it five years in large part because the Biden administration was terrible on border enforcement.

Yeah. They said, let everybody in.

And so you wound up with, by the numbers, like, this massive surge of folks in. And then like, the pendulum went the other way. And now everyone's like, hey, what the hell?

Trump said, build a wall. That's their line. They left, just take down the wall.

But. But, like, you know, a majority of Americans were for a pathway to citizenship, correct? Like, you know, 10 years ago.

Yeah, we had.

And then now it's gone in a particular direction because of some very, very bad policy in the Biden administration that in my opinion, was swayed by politics and appearance, where there was like, hey, we don't want to be, like, shown being jerks on the border. And there was this very real difficult, frankly, argument to make where it's like, no. Early in the administration, it's like, hey, Kamala, you're gonna be the border person. And then we're all just gonna forget about that two months later. And then. And then three years later, three years, we're not gonna enforce the border very much. Yeah. And then you're going to be the nominee. And then people are like, whatever happened to that? And like, so there were two issues to me that Trump won on. Number one was the border, and number two was the economy. Slash inflation and the rest of it.

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently, apparently a thing.

Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. 30. 30. Get 30. Better get 20. 20. 20. Better get 20. 20. Better get 15. 15, 15, 15. Just 15 bucks a month.

Sold.

Give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of 45 for.

3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month. Required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra.

See mintmobile.com Amazon One Medical presents Painful.

Thoughts I've been on hold to make.

A doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now.

The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them.

Hmm.

I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all.

With Amazon One Medical 24. 7 Virtual Care, you'll get help fast without having to remain on the line to make an appointment. Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.

All right, let's end on something way more positive. What do you think this question's from? Matthew says. Hey, Andrew, I'm curious to know what type of music you listen to. And if I'm being honest, I am, too.

Well, thank you. Oh, my gosh. I love this question so much, Matthew. So check it out. I think most of you have a sense of who I was growing up, where I listened in the 80s and early 90s. My first concert was Depeche Mode, the Violator Tour, 1989. Great tour. Great T shirt, though the T shirt actually tattered and got.

Hold on.

Sometimes the concert T shirts don't hold up. Then the. The Wish Tour. The Cure, the Smiths had broken up, but I. I saw Morrissey in concert and I grabbed his wrist. As before, he kind of went dark and crazy. Sorry. I mean, that makes me sad when people do that. And then. And then you two, Grunge, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Chris Novisalich, Shout out, and then converted to hip hop during the 90s, pretty much, I was like an angry teenager, an angsty and. So whatever music channel that kind of energy I was into. I spent my 20s and 30s, you know, a lot of R and B. Love Maxwell. Saw him in concert. Huge Prince fan. Now the question is what I listen to today.

Yeah, if you're walking down Manhattan right now and you put in an AirPod, what's playing?

So I. I've got, you know, a playlist that bounces across eras, but for, like, some of the stuff that I double click on or it's like, you know, tell the algorithm I like, and they play more of. Yeah. So some of this is gonna make me sound. I don't know what, like a little fuddy duddy ish. But it's like John Mellencamp. My first concert, Pink Houses. Some Springsteen and then some recent bands. I love Mount Joy.

Oh, yeah.

I like the Lumineers.

You love Florence and the machine.

I like 21 pilots. I like Florence and the Machine. I do Florence the Machine anytime. Like, it's on my playlist. It's uplifting. I like Gracie Abrams.

Okay. She's good.

Yeah. I like some of Benson Boone's music. I think I even said that. Jules Turpak. So I try and span eras. If it's like comfort food, I'll listen to, you know, 80s and 90s I will say that now, like, my music tends to try and be a little more upbeat, but yeah, that maybe. I don't know if that answers the question. I think it did good in terms of current bands. One of the things too. It's like, I always try and go to live music, you know, like whenever I can. If I'm. If I'm on the borderline, I'm just like, we should go. So I did see the Madonna show in the Garden.

Oh, hell yeah.

Last year.

Was it fun?

It was.

You still got it right.

Saw Pearl Jam when they came to the Garden too. Saw Smashing Pumpkins in the Bay Area last year was fun. And they had Stone Temple Pilots open for them. And I was like, wait, didn't the lead singer die? But they got like a new lead singer. Sounds a lot like him. Is one of those situations. Maybe that can be a push. And I know concert tickets are really expensive, but try. Just try and find some band you like and support them, because I think that they'll appreciate it and it's generally worth be happy about.

I mean, even though even the overpriced. You usually have a good night around it, you know, I usually. I feel good after I went to the concert.

I should say, too, Like, I do play Taylor Swift a fair amount in the car because my boys. It's one of those intersecting things where it's like. Like, they'll always be cool, you know. That's what happened to our campaign vehicle too. It's like whenever we couldn't agree on music, you wind up with Taylor Swift.

This is a Taylor Swift podcast. I love Taylor. I think she's a badass and her music's great.

Yeah, I did attend the ERAS tour, and it was like the most epic freaking concert performance. She was like a pro athlete up there. I was like, this is an objectively.

J.J. watt had a tweet.

Super impressive.

And he's like, I've never seen, like, a physical performance from a singer like this.

It was. It was bananas. The show I saw was in Boston and it was raining so hard, like, really, really hard, where she was drenched to the bone. Like, she seemed like a cyborg. It was insane. Like. Like, the fans were all like, we're not sure we can handle it. And then she was up there just doing her thing. I mean, she is, like, so supercharged. It was a wonder to behold. And I will say too, I mean, there were times on the campaign trail when, you know, we were in front of thousands of people and, like, it felt almost superhuman. Like, that's what Taylor reminded me of. It was uplifting.

She does it at a different level. One of the best ever. And no, we haven't. No one wants Sahate, but we haven't seen this sort of stardom and performance probably since the Beatles, man. Like, it's that crazy and that impressive.

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was.

If you think about it, probably is.

It was literally awesome. Yeah. So, you know, any swifties out there?

Love her with that, man. Good to be back. Good episode.

Most Importantly, happy summer 2025. Please do try and enjoy your summer. Things may or may not be awesome out there, but they should be awesome in our lives.

And also when you listen to this podcast.

Yeah. So like, just freaking make some memories of summer. Do something dope. You know, go to that thing, visit that somewhere. Ask that person on that date. Just, you know, summer. Summer's the time.

Amen. Love you guys. Sam.