The #1 Difference Between Founders Who Bounce Back and Founders Who Don’t

So, you slow down, you notice what you're feeling. Now, let's go back. You feel sadness, you locate it in your body.

Yeah.

Then what?

If you're schooled in conscious leadership, I'd ask you, are you above or below the line around this meeting you just had?

Probably below.

You'd probably say below. And then I'd say—

It's worth noting, I think, that even when the meeting goes well and the person committed and gave you money, you were probably still below the line.

You might be.

Just because it went well doesn't mean— You're below, above or below, right?

Yeah. You might be attached to that.

And yeah, you can have like, you're at the effect of something outside of yourself.

Yes. Yeah. I will say it is easier to accept reality as it is when it's going the way you want it to go.

Exactly.

And like, to your point earlier, it is more challenging. Like, that's why during fundraising, people go below the line more. Of course, it's more challenging when there's high stakes things that don't go the way you want. In some way, I'm outlining the conscious leadership shift process, but I'll weave in some other stuff. So that process is, can you accept yourself for being below the line? Which is basically just— in some way, it's like, can you just allow yourself to be human and acknowledge that human beings are wired to perceive threat? And when things that matter to you don't go the way you thought, it's very common to perceive it as threatening and to be scared and to resisted and wish it hadn't happened that way. Like, that's just so normal. And I think in some way, you said this at the beginning of the episode, like, the more work you've done, sometimes the less accepting you are of your humanity. And I, you know, resonate with this too. It's like, oh my God, I've done all this work and still one investor says no. And I'm like, you know, I mean, reactive and Below the line is like, no, it's not still. It's just right now in this moment you are. That's what you're experiencing. And so in some way, there's a trap of like being below the line about being below the line. I shouldn't be feeling— I shouldn't be in a reactive mode, or I shouldn't be in a state of threat. So again, the second step is some version of, can you just accept yourself for being exactly where you are, feeling what you're feeling?

And I think most people probably would go, oh yeah, I am feeling a little bummed about that. No, don't feel bummed. You got 5 more meetings next week. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't say it's okay to feel bummed. You would just, you would start re— like, at least I would.

Yeah.

Like have like, oh no, no. And then, and then at least for me just to give it voice, like it, then I start feeling really stuck.

Hmm.

Because I haven't felt the feeling.

Yeah.

Because I'm just resisting it. Like I'm, I'm, and then that brings me back into my head and then I'm like back in my head and I'm like, Okay, maybe, maybe we need to change something. Maybe like, you know, and you're, and you're like solving all these things just because for me at least, especially sadness, I'm like, I wasn't willing to just be like, oh man, poor, poor, poor me, poor, that sucks, you know, that I'm feeling this or whatever. I'm feeling this way.

Yeah. I'm disappointed. Yeah. That, that's super common that we have it. You know, most people believe that like, oh, it's good to feel joy and excitement and it's bad to feel sad or scared or angry. So when those feelings arise, We just find a way to kind of paper over them or rationalize them or push through or something like that. And it's pretty counterintuitive, again, I think, for a lot of people that like, that it's, you know, just like vulnerability is strength, you know, like it's a cliché, but a lot of people are like, is it really? Or do I just look like a wimp? You know?

Right, right.

It is really. And it takes actually experiencing it. Like I've seen, you know, people, leaders, in a group, you know, really say something vulnerable and how it, you know, how much people appreciate and respect, you know, the courage that that took, etc. So, in kind of a similar way, it takes maybe courage to like feel the feelings that we typically want to push away.

Right.

It certainly takes intentionality because most of us by default are like, oh, this is bad. I need to fundraise. I can't feel this right now.

Got to get rid of this.

Yeah. Yeah. I got to push through. I got to move through. And, and the irony is, yeah, like, if you just really give it, like you said, even just a few minutes of like, oh, fuck, I'm really disappointed. Like, you know, like, it'll move through you more quickly. And then, you know, the place I might go next, essentially, the, you know, the next question is, are you willing to shift from a state of threat to a state of presence, or from below the line to above the line? And like, the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership offer sort of guidance about how you might do that. But the, I would say the most common path that I would go would be, I'd help you look at what stories are you, is your mind making up based on what just happened? Yeah. So we, I don't know if you want to play, like, what stories was your mind making up?

Yeah, like, oh, I'm doing this wrong. Right. Or that person doesn't like me or is not behind me, or this is going to be harder than I thought. I don't want to be doing this. Those are common ones for me.

Yeah. So, there's sort of 2 flavors. One is about the thing that just happened. I screwed it up. I did it wrong. They don't like me. And then, the other is you tend to extrapolate or project and make up stories about the future of like what's going to happen now, right? And that's where the big emotional swing comes from. You were living into imagining this bright future where everyone said yes and it was so easy and it just all happened. And then you switch to like, oh no, everyone's going to say no, right? It's just the— we generalize, right? This one thing that happened into, yeah, like a, you know, it's always going to be that way. And, you know, I forget if we talked about this before. This was like, I don't know, over a decade ago I read Martin Seligman's Learned Optimism book. He was like the father of positive psychology. And he had this really simple distinction. I'll try to remember it, which was like, for optimists, that's what he labels it. When setbacks happen, optimists tend to label the setback as temporary and specific.

Hmm.

So temporary, right? Like, okay, this one investor said no. And specific, like, okay, it's just You know, it's just this. And pessimists tend to label that same exact experience as permanent and pervasive. So, let me be more, even more clear about it. So, the specific part is like, oh, I didn't do well in that meeting. And the temporary is like, okay, this particular investor said no.

Right.

But permanent and pervasive is like, oh, God, all investors are going to say no because I suck at fundraising. So, it's like permanent, it's always going to be this way, and pervasive because it means something fundamental about me. And I thought that was just such a—

Mine is not mine, by the way. Well, where my head went is like all kinds of other interesting— like, I have both in me.

Yeah, of course.

Pessimist. And like, but my inner pessimist is— he knows I'm still really good at pitching, so it's never anything I did wrong in the pitch. I mean, there's always— you can always be better at a pitch, but it's always like, I shouldn't be doing this. This is not a good use. Like, why am I spending my time on this? Which I think, especially when you've already had some success and I'm like, you know, you're like, for whatever reason, that's the pessimist story that pervades when I'm like in that.

Yeah, it's a good defense mechanism, right? It's like, I'm above this. It's beautiful. I don't even want to do this anyway. Why am I doing this? Because your system wants to avoid feeling those feelings. And it's basically trying to get you to stop doing the thing that's You know, putting, putting that at risk or creating, you know, creating risk. Okay.

So that, so look at the stories. What else is in the, in this process?

I, this one's nuanced. You know, I love the exercise of like, are you willing to take your 100% responsibility for how that went?

And— I think actually just let's pause on that one for a second because I think that one has been helpful for me. Because oftentimes when I find myself being disappointed about something in my life, whether it's something that I expected from my wife or kids, or whether it's in these pitch meetings, it's like it's a good reality check because usually I came in with an expectation that I was not conscious of in the moment.

Yeah.

And like we talked about meditating after the meeting or something and presencing, but even before a conversation, just like, are you truly open to whatever is about to happen? Or like, are you Is whatever is about to happen going to be for your highest and best good? Can you truly— because I think I found myself in this process of like, oh yeah, I just— it's so subtle. And I don't even know that this is happening where I'm like, oh yeah, this is, you know, this is a big one. This is gonna be a good one. You know, and that's— and honestly, for me at least, that's way more responsible usually for my letdown than anything else that happens. Because I, you know, because I am— I can— I'm resilient. I've lived through a lot. I've seen a lot. But it's almost always these like, Very, very small moments of high expectations that then—

Yeah, which what I don't want people to take away from that, and some people tend to, is don't have high expectations.

Right.

I'm a dreamer. I love dreaming. I love believing in my clients' dreams, encouraging them to dream. So, the trick is not to not have high expectations, it's to not be attached to those high expectations.

Right.

And it's, it's really subtle and nuanced, but you, you can feel the difference of like, I can like, oh, I imagine them saying yes, I'm so excited about it, but I'm not like attached to being right that that's what should happen. And I'm genuinely like open and curious, like, okay, if they say no, how could that be just as good or better, right? And it, it's all— it's kind of like holding a paradox of like, I really want it to happen And I don't know for sure that that's what should happen. So it's like you can hold it lightly. Like I think about that a lot.

Yeah, I've heard some people say like the outcome, like it's a helpful frame of like you have the right to the, to the, like to your dream and to the conversation. You can desire whatever you want.

Totally.

You have no right to the outcome. That, that's just—

Right. You're not entitled to that happening.

Yeah. And when you're finding attached to the outcome, you know, then most things you can't actually control whether it happens. Yeah.