In this interview, former Marine officer Jill Schulman explains how her service shaped her career and led to the development of her bravery framework. She joined the Marines to fund her college education and find purpose, recounting a fear‑inducing obstacle course that taught her to act despite terror. After leaving the Corps, a recruiter introduced her to pharmaceutical sales, where a former Marine mentor helped her become the top‑performing rep in the country. After 14 years in sales and a leadership development role at a major pharma firm, a personal moment with her daughter prompted her to launch her own leadership development business. Schulman discusses her book, The Bravery Effect, which presents bravery as a skill built through three psychological pillars—cognitive, behavioral, and social—and offers exercises to strengthen each. She shares resources, including her website, LinkedIn, and a free three‑minute bravery assessment, inviting listeners to connect and apply her framework.
Today we have the great pleasure of speaking with Jill Schulman, and she has a very interesting background. And let's start with that. What made you decide to join the Marines?
You know, I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, in Minnesota, and the Marine Corps was my ticket to, number one, get my college education paid for, and two, to have a career of purpose and to see the world. I just decided to go for it. It was quite a path to earn the title of United States Marine. But because it was hard and there were so many crazy brave things I had to do, that's what made it so exciting.
Can you share one experience where you were scared?
My unit, when I was in ROTC, thought it would be a fun idea to go to the Navy SEAL base to go on their— something called the confidence course, which is a bunch of obstacles. So I remember this moment, I'm standing on this platform 40 feet up in the air. And in front of me is a steel cable that extends about 120 feet, and it's my turn to go next to get down to the other side. And in that moment, fear. My hands were shaking, my knees were wobbling. And what I didn't realize at that moment is the thing that I was most scared of is the thing that I most needed to do. I ended up doing the obstacle, and when my feet hit the ground on the other side, I felt invincible. When you're scared, you do it anyway.
So when you were released from the Marines, what jobs did you explore?
There was some recruiters where they specialize in taking junior Marines, 'cause I was a captain in the Marine Corps, and placing us in companies. And they actually told me about the pharmaceutical sales. I interviewed with a couple of pharmaceutical companies, and the second company, the hiring manager was a former Marine officer just like me. I took that job And I fell in love with sales and I fell in love with the science in pharmaceutical. And I had an amazing coach. I mean, he helped me become the top performing rep in the country. And that was what led me to my, my career in sales and pharma, biotech, and the device world.
What happened after 14 years of sales?
My last job in corporate America was doing leadership development at one of the biggest pharma companies. I took a promotion that was in Chicago, but my husband's business was in Southern California. I couldn't really move, so I took the promotion and I commuted every week. And after doing that for a while, I came home once, I caught an earlier flight on a Friday, and I went to go pick up my kindergarten daughter from school to surprise her. And she was so excited that I was there at pickup, and she ran and she hugged me. And then she showed me the picture that she had of a family, and I wasn't in it. I wanted to keep doing the same work, doing leadership development, but I wanted to do it more on my terms. So that's what motivated me to start my own leadership development business.
Can you show me your book?
I always have one here. So when I'm on podcasts and stuff, so yeah, it's called The Bravery Effect. I wrote it as a parable. So Gerhard, for parables, like stories make things stick. So I chose to take all the science that I know, teaching the science of bravery, of how people can both overcome their fears holding them back and live their most fulfilling life. My book really outlines the 3 like skills or what I call like, they're almost like exercises you need to do to build your bravery muscles. So bravery is not a trait. It's a skill that anyone can build. So in my research, you know, we talk about the power of yet growth mindset. So we do cognitive lifting, but we can't just think we're gonna do it and cross our fingers and sit in our office. We actually have to go out and do it. So the second pillar or exercise I teach is based on behavioral psychology. And then we end in social psychology because bravery is contagious. So we talk about how you can find people who are really, really great at the thing that you wanna do, and you should ask them for feedback and questions. Yeah, cognitive psychology, behavioral psychology, social psychology. And what I found is these 3 things have an additive effect. So based on what, how you think, it changes your behavior. But based on who you surround yourself with and who you're talking to, that impacts your behavior. And when you take a step, it actually changes your mindset. So all of these 3 things help build that bravery muscle. If you want to become confident, brave, and bold, You absolutely can, and I'll teach you how.
How can people get in touch with you?
Probably the best way to get in touch with me is just go to my website. It's just my first name, last name.com. So jillschulman.com. And the other place to go is probably just on LinkedIn, you know, because I'm, I'm most active on LinkedIn. I'm on all the social platforms, but just working in, in organizations and business, it's really LinkedIn. And then if any of your listeners want a little bit more, I have something free on my website. And it's a free bravery assessment. It takes 3 minutes to take. And if you take the bravery assessment, then you can download a free bravery blueprint, which basically gives you basically what these 3 pillars are on this 3-legged stool. So people can immediately start applying it to their life and their sales job.
