756. AI, Quantum Computing, UFOs and the Limits of Human Knowledge

Deep, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Martin.

Hey, I'm so glad to have you back. And it's funny, I ran into you the other day and I said, hey, Hey, you were on my show and you said 7 years ago, and I looked it up. How did you know? How did you just come up with that just like that?

Yeah, yes.

You're a numbers guy.

For sure. I'll tell you the thought process. I saw your face and I instantly remembered what came to my mind was the thumbnail of our show that we did. And I see in my mind's eye the date and I just said, oh, that was 7 years ago.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. For those who do not know who Deep is, and we talked about quantum computing, which is something that kind of scares me, and I'd like to talk a little bit about that. But you have also had an experience in 2021 and all that. So there's a lot going on. But first of all, in a nutshell, can you— this is a short interview, this one here. So can you give your background overall?

Absolutely. I am interested— the simplest way to think about my work is I'm interested at the center of computers/computation, information, and matter and energy/physics. So physics, intelligence, And energy. So that combination is super interesting to me. So how do we create new forms of consciousness? How do we create new forms of cognition, new machines that can think differently and symbiotically with humans? How do we develop better models of reality and the way that nature works that goes beyond Einsteinian physics and also goes beyond the current philosophical paradigms and constraints of consciousness? How do we actually operationalize this stuff? Is that almost like AGI in a way, or? Yep.

And there's a great— for those of you that are listening, there's a great documentary called The Thinking Machine with Demis Hassabis. Yeah, it's just amazing. So yeah, it's a little scary, but one of the things I just wanted to bring up is they noted that it's like a baby. A baby is learning constantly with its environment, and that's how this can move ahead. And become that, which to me can be a little scary because anytime there's a higher intelligence, it seems to take over the, or at least control the lower intelligences. And just jumping right in with that, what are the safeguards so that something like that wouldn't happen, that somehow we'd get destroyed or whatever?

I think that is probably one of the most important questions of the millennium. Given that the capabilities gap between AI today and humans are increasing pretty rapidly. The average human cannot program. And whereas AIs program trivially, it's a joke to them for most kinds of programs. And so as that continues to increase, how do we make this safer? And the structure and framework that I've been building to answer this very question It's called CLEAR, C-L-E-A-R. And the idea is to gate AI behaviors in the real world based on trust, authorization, and clearance. So it's not enough for capabilities to exist. We determine when an AI is allowed to make an irreversible action in the real world that affects humans only when it's proven that it has the authorization clearance to do that task. And so it has to pass a whole bunch of tests to prove that, look, I'm taking the right act here. That discipline needs to become deeply embedded in us. Right now, that discipline does not exist. We are letting AIs proliferate rampantly without any clearance or runtime.

Yeah, that's scary. And I know that Elon Musk went to President Obama years ago and said, hey, we have to regulate this stuff. And then I know he's doing the Grok and other optimists and things like that where he feels like he's in control and it's okay. But not everybody's going to have that type of frame of mind. And it can— I think it can get really scary. I'm a little concerned about it, but it's interesting. But we don't have to really focus on that part of it. But can we go to your experience? Jump and go right to your experience. What happened in 2021?

Yeah. So 2019.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, totally fine.

Yeah.

It's February 1st. I'm in my— on the 30th floor. My condo in Toronto, and it's totally total daytime, and I'm writing emails and I'm working on my startup, which was a quantum AI company accelerating materials discovery. And I basically have this download that something is about to happen to me and I won't be able to describe it using regular human words. And the closest words might be things like contactee abduction. It was like my brain mapped the concepts to similar human words. It was trying to find concepts, but it was telling me at the same time, this is not accurate. None of these human words you've constructed are an accurate representation about what's about to happen to you.

Whoa.

And then right after that, these 3 beings wearing spacesuits, they were like the same phenotype of Grays in the sense that small bodies, large heads, very angular faces. Black visors. They got holograms and hieroglyphs that they're floating above me using some kind of holographic technology of some kind or something, or beaming into my head. I have no idea what was happening there. So they start showing me all these hieroglyphs and they start showing me sometimes the inside of their ship when I would raise my head, or they would zoom in on what they look like without a spacesuit. And they looked very eerily similar to, in my opinion, the Peruvian mummies. The alien mummies. It's why, at least some of them, not all of them. And so I've always taken that stuff seriously just because of that alone. The reconstructions that those surgeons have done, I'm like, whoa, that gets my heart beating faster because I've seen that before.

Whoa. And so was this at night? Were you alone? What, how did, and could it have been, and you feel as though you went on a ship, the whole thing you were Basically abducted or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It not yeah. I almost feel like it could have been like it could have progressed to an abduction or something. But yeah, what was weird in my situation and a couple people have mentioned like the strangeness here. Lynn Cannon, I think is her name. But yeah, basically the ship would only show up when I raised my hand, and so. When the ship would show up, it would melt my roof. My roof would literally just dissolve, and the bottom of a ship would come closer and closer. It was the most physics-breaking thing I have ever seen in my entire life. I have no idea what the hell— it just changed how I interpret reality, like that one small thing. So I felt what was weird in my case was that I wasn't taken onto a ship and then Brought outside the planet and then showed these things. It was like a demonstration, like we're bringing everything here to you. It was very strange.

Wow. And so I'm assuming this happened at nighttime?

Daytime.

Oh, daytime.

10 in the morning.

Yeah, 10 in the morning.

With daylight trickling in, all my curtains are open. I'm in a 270-degree— so my apartment is 90-degree glass walls.

Wow.

And so So I could see light reflecting off their suits. It was trippy.

Yeah. And so what happened after?

I mean, yeah. So after that, I had a complete rewiring of my belief system, what I found more important or relevant to work on. Before this experience, I found it more relevant to advance the existing economy and infrastructure that exists today, the existing petrodollar gas paradigm, helping the big tech companies, helping really rich people get richer. Frankly, I was trying to solve humanity's problems, but I knew that it was within this capitalist paradigm. After my experience, I became spiritual. I became very interested in non-human intelligence, full conviction that other forms of consciousness exist out there beyond just biological human substrates. And so I changed my priorities completely. I was like, wow, if these civilizations or intelligences exist that can just come into our airspace, come into our mind's eyes and do all these tremendously wondrous things, then we need to set our goals higher. We need to become a more advanced, ethical and peaceful civilization, if possible.

If possible, yeah.

To increase coordination and so on.

Now, some people theorize that it's something that's always been here and hear anyway, and I know there's craft involved in all that stuff, or maybe an interdimensional type of situation. What always comes up when a skeptic will talk about why they hear, how they hear, and the distances are too far and all that, and I've had discussions with skeptics. Skeptics about this, including Seth Shostak, Michael Shermer, people like that. And I'll say, we have just this little human brain, and exactly, we can't— we don't know everything about physics. And then there's, there's a lot to— what if something's regional? This sounds really weird. Yeah, but we only know so much about spacetime and all that stuff, and maybe something is different in different places. And but whatever it is, We have this little human brain, and there's Sir Isaac Newton's quote is, "What we know is a drop; what we don't know is an ocean." And I think that's probably right. We're doing pretty good intelligence-wise, but it's probably something very higher above us.

Yeah, absolutely. And we have to remember that when somebody like Seth Shostak comments on something like this, his background is in astronomy. It's not in quantum information, quantum communication, quantum teleportation. Yeah, theoretical wormholes. So he theoretically doesn't even have the frameworks to conceptualize other ways of communication outside of radar and radio.

Yeah.

So that's just what we know physics today. So that's just 21st century physics. On the part of intelligences and stuff like that, have they always been here? I think that's very plausible. And why it's plausible is because Earth, when life first originated on Earth, when the first unicellular organisms arose, Earth literally looked like a hellhole.

Oh, sure.

It literally, like, exhaust fumes, hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit everywhere, like liquid cyanide pools, phosphorus pools, like fume hoods that you would not be able to breathe or live in. It was not any condition for life. Hot lava everywhere you looked, like, and yet somehow unicellular life came out of that.

Yeah.

And that's 4 billion, almost 4 billion years ago. 3.7 billion to be specific.

It's so hard to believe that we evolved out of that, like the one cell type of thing. I don't feel anything like an amoeba myself, but I mean, yeah. And then I've heard, you know who Marc D'Antonio is? He says, yeah, that he, we came out of the sea and maybe we did. But yeah, it's all, it's all just really hard to, it's hard. To visualize any of this, but it's also hard for us to visualize time and numbers. You know, I mean, it's really— we can, as far as I know, the average human can think about something like in the 10,000 range, but when it comes to millions and billions—

Yeah, they lose intuition. Yeah, like for example, the difference between a million seconds and a billion seconds, right? A million seconds, matter of a few weeks. A billion seconds is 36 years.

Yeah, and a trillion is 30,000 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's— I know, it's like crazy to think about all that. So yes, it's really hard. And I asked Whitley Strieber the other day, yeah, what he thought about if there could have been some type of other civilizations here that have come and gone, maybe that were intelligent, and He thinks it's possible. I don't know. It seems like we'd find some type of evidence of that, but things on the Earth can— I don't know. What are any thoughts on that type of thing? I know we're going down the rabbit hole.

Yeah, like artifacts and so forth, right? Yeah, so I think if we look at like how old Earth is, still very young. Yeah, in terms of the universe's true history, right? Yeah, the universe existed for 10 billion years before Earth was even formed, before Earth even existed as a planet.

Yeah.

And now, and since we know that all these hellish environments can still lead to life, that increases the amount of life that likely existed long before we even were around as a planet. So there's probably so many artifacts, thousands of artifacts littered around Earth, and also civilizations that might have treated Earth as a way station as they were developing. And some of them, maybe their AIs are still around, or their artificial life forms that they created for managing Earth, they're still here.

Yeah, I have told this story many times. People are probably tired of hearing it, but I talked to someone who basically was involved, according to himself, in the Air Force during Vietnam, seeing the UFOs during napalming, trying to study. He was a special force, according to himself. This is way before, in the 1990s, I'm talking to him. And when I asked him, what do they want? What does the government think that they want? And he said, we're a petri dish.

Oh, wow.

And I, but it was very interesting. I've never been able to get ahold of him, but wow.

I believe that. Yeah. Cause once you're advanced enough, you're going to want to engineer everything around you. It's like intelligence and control go hand in hand. We're controlling the temperature in this room right now, the flow of electricity.

Yeah.

The flow of the conversation even. So we're humans, right? Imagine how much control a much more intelligent being than us is willing to and capable of exerting at all times.

So I want to ask you this. What do you think AI— and we'll get into a little bit of quantum computing— but what do you think AI can do in the future as far as discovering, like, to say if we don't have More information from our governments or whatever. Where do you think AI will work as far as doing research of what these things are that are here?

I love that question. So I think AI will democratize these classified physics that all these reverse engineering programs might have discovered or hidden away by the government. AI will independently on its own make it easier and easier for the average Joe To tap into very advanced physics without needing to know all the details. They just need to know the person's intent. So you could be some kid in South Korea, a little garage. You got like fifty bucks of instruments, right? Like really not a lot. And what you want to do is build a little like electromagnetic base anti-gravity setup. Right now, the reason why that kid can't do that is because you need a Hal put off or a Dr. Eric Davis, plus potentially an alien, to solve the Einstein field equation tensors that tell you what the magnetic field strength must be to get a particular perturbation in the field metric, allowing you to change spacetime gravity. So of course, Puthoff has spent decades talking about metric engineering and so on. Now, he has to solve those equations by hand. Slowly over decades, and AI can do those things in hours or minutes.

Yeah, yeah, comparatively.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And so AI will make it so that I think we're just going to end up finding, rediscovering all these classified secrets and more.

Yeah. I've heard now. I've heard. I've paid attention a little bit. I'm really interested in AI and things like that, and I think I heard someone. In a documentary say that for something that would take a couple years for a supercomputer, the power that we have now, quantum computers can do it in a few seconds.

Yes.

Is that— do you agree with that?

That's true for some problems, such as RSA encryption. RSA encryption completely relies on the fact that regular computers, even the most powerful supercomputers, take more years than the universe is even All that exists, right? But quantum computers can solve those RSA encryption problems much faster.

Now, when you're talking about encryption, how are things like banks and things going to be safe if you crack the quantum computing?

Yeah.

It seems like it would be one of the most powerful tools in the world because it could empty the world banks or anything immediately. All passwords would be cracked if needed. Right. I mean, do I have that right? And how would— are we going to have to have a different type of encryption to stop that from happening once we get into the quantum computing age?

Exactly. We're going to need post-quantum encryption, and we're going to need quantum internet instead, a native internet that is embedded and already assumes that quantum computing capabilities exist so that the encryption that keeps your quantum internet data secure, it's already baked in. Whereas the existing internet, like when DARPA and ARPANET was getting created, they had no idea that quantum computers would ever exist. And now they're everywhere. So.

Yeah. Yep. So let's get just into a little bit of what else can that type of computer do to advance our world, our society?

This is the part of quantum computing that I work on, which is What other than encryption, quantum computing can advance society by improving our understanding of matter at the quantum level. And matter ultimately is quantum mechanical. Once you zoom in to our iPhone, our table, right, it's all atoms and all those atoms follow the rules of quantum mechanics. So a quantum computer naturally models those systems much more accurately than a regular computer can. And that allows us to design much, much more precise, more advanced systems that are highly reliable and robust. It's more sustainable theoretically for the environment by engineering them at the molecular scale. And so I worked for 8 years plus now on quantum computers and regular AI and quantum computing-inspired algorithms for modeling matter and making new semiconductors. New lithium-ion solid-state electrolyte batteries and high-entropy alloys, photocatalytic materials that convert carbon dioxide, water, and sunlight into natural gas in clean reactions. We had our AI system help design these materials and improve them by modeling them at the quantum scale. Wow.

Wow. Interesting. Now we only have a few minutes left. Now I have— I feel lucky. I really love my car. It's an EV.

Right.

The Tesla, and I love the full self-driving. I use almost always just that. But the thing is that I wanted to ask about, you just mentioned batteries.

Yeah.

Now, I remember reading years ago that battery technology can never get better than it is. It's such a simple thing that we don't think it can be improved. Now, but then I hear controversy about that. Do you think battery Technology can get better over the years.

There's totally, totally, there's a long way to go. We still have so much room to optimize batteries. It's actually profound. I would say we're in like the 16th or 17th century when it comes to battery technology.

Really?

Yeah.

But I heard there's just so much you can do. But now this is something I looked into years ago.

Yeah.

But anyway, it's good to know that it can be improved because—

For sure. So like range anxiety will go down over time. And so on. Yeah.

Now, do you think— one last question— do you think—

do you—

now, this is just an opinion— do you think that there is technology out there for people— always talk about it, you always hear Dr. Steven Greer talk about it and others— that there's a source of free energy that we can always tap into? Do you think something like what you're working on could actually figure out if that's really—

Yes, I believe that a powerful, sufficiently powerful quantum AI We'll be able to solve physics equations that we currently struggle with regular computers and human brains. And those physics equations will allow us to engineer the vacuum so that we can extract energy in far more sophisticated manners than anyone's discovered so far.

Amazing. Amazing. You think of all our energy that we have here on Earth comes from the sun, and then it's stored in trees and oil and all that. And then we get the energy back out of it and like that.

And yeah, so where did the energy from the sun came from? It came from the vacuum. So we're already in a weird way extracting energy from the vacuum. We're just doing it indirectly through the sled right now.

Yeah. Crazy, huh? As always, it's a real pleasure. I'm glad you could join me. A little behind the scenes.

Such a pleasure. Yeah.

Behind the scenes, it was like I'm contacting you, help, my interview didn't show up. Can you come? So anyway, I really appreciate that you made it here.

Oh yeah, it was such a pleasure. Such a great conversation to start the day. So thank you so much, Martin.

Excellent. Thank you.

Yes.