Age Blind

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hi everybody, Dennis and Julie, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. You imitate that, I know, I know. What should— why would you— why would you have me say Julie imitated my opening.

I did.

Like before this.

Do we have a video of it?

And no, thank God.

So is he so funny?

I don't understand, though. There's no variation on it. Those are our names. I'm sort of obligated to state our names and then we move on.

No, what I was making fun of wasn't that. Yeah, I was making fun of what comes after. I was—

the show number.

And I was saying, Sean, hello everybody, welcome to Dennis and Julie. I'm Dennis Prager. Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie. Sean, what number is this? So, God, one.

Boy, do I regret having mentioned this.

You know, I've got a theory. You know me and my theories. I've got a theory on the amount of pricks in a fork. You know, my theory about the pricks of the fork is that the fastest—

I never had a theory. Yeah, you're right about that.

You're going to love this.

Okay, welcome everybody. We're in a goofy mood apparently. So Julie actually said to me she has a really serious, or at least I don't know if it's serious, but a real subject on your mind. Is that correct?

Yes, I do.

By the way, before that though, wasn't there something else we had mentioned?

Yes.

Yeah, what was that?

All my besties are in their 70s.

Yeah, that's very interesting. No, it's a fun but serious— it's a fascinating, and I think worthy of a couple of minutes, just a couple of minutes. So you mentioned in passing to Sean prior to the show something to the effect, you know, Sean— I'm paraphrasing, you do a better job paraphrasing me than I do you— but you know, most of the people I'm closest to in life are 3 times my age.

Oh yeah.

And it's true. No, it's not a cute line. It is true. So I, I think that's rare. I think it's terrific.

Oh, it's rare.

It's terrific, but it's rare. This is the first time, I think, in history that the overwhelming majority of time of young people is spent with other young people.

Hmm, why do you say that?

Because in the past, it was— first of all, it was common to have 3 generations in a home. So they, they knew grandparents and presumably grandparents' friends and the grandparents' siblings. This notion that your whole world is 15 years old is really awful. Who are you going to learn from? That's why I came to a very interesting theory about life.

It's said with love, I hope you know.

I know that. But my theories are based a lot on, obviously, life experience. I used to think that only children were more likely to be spoiled because parents spoil their only child. It makes perfect sense. Over the course of a lifetime, I have come to actually have great admiration for a lot of people who turned out to be only children and I am convinced one of the reasons is they spent so much time with adults, so they were more likely to be mature. You don't get mature from hanging around 15-year-olds.

That's true. Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, I— for me, um, yes, it's true that a lot of my very close friends are many multiples of my age. You're an example. I won't, I won't name other names, mainly because I'm afraid that And if I list the people, I'm missing somebody. But right now I can think of 3 to 4, maybe even 5 other individuals who are in their 70s or 80s with whom I am very close, like talk to on a, you know, 2 times a week, 3 times a week basis. And it's hugely enriched my life. And by the way, just for the record, because this is important, I have a lot of friends my age. I've never in my life—

I know you do.

Thank God. I've never lacked friends.

I have friends of every age. I mean, I do. We sometimes crack up at the Shabbat table that you're so frequently attending. There, there are people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. I know I'm the one representative from the 20s cohort, but there are plenty in the 30s.

Totally.

Yes.

And my— I actually have a lot to say about this because this wasn't always the case in my life. This really started because of you.

That's right.

And the world that you've introduced me to. And if I'm being really honest, a lot of these, these 4 to 5 people who I'm mentioning are, are your friends, right? One of them isn't. One of them came about because of this, this job, but isn't somebody who, you know. But anyway, that wasn't the case for me for much of my life. And sometimes when I always had a respect for those who were older, but sometimes I would think, you know, they don't— they have a limit to what they can offer me. And now that I have these like 4 to 5 people, my life is so enriched. And I want to say to young people in particular, if you don't have a mentor or two, you are missing out on a, on a fantastic opportunity to learn from someone. And especially being a young woman, people who are in their 70s and 80s, they yearn to pass along their life or professional wisdom to people who are younger, especially now in this world where so many younger people think that older generations have nothing to offer them. And so I'm taking advantage of that opportunity, A, because I genuinely appreciate their friendship, but B, I know that they will invest time and energy in making me better because it's kind of like a life-fulfilling thing for people of that generation to do.

That's well said. That's correct. I, I'm trying to think. When I was your age, I, I didn't have what you have. I, I had— let me think— I had, I, I had quite a number of people older than me, but not, not multiple, like 3 times or more, right? Yeah, but So that's not typical. You lucked out. I mean, you lucked out. I mean, I know this sounds self-aggrandizing because I'm one of them, but I don't really care. Part of the reason you lucked out is it's a terrific group of people. Tell me, I mean, forgetting the age, they tell me about— yeah, that, that's a big factor here. The, the age is not the reason you're close to them. Mm-hmm. It doesn't matter is more true than yes, it's the reason.

Yes. And you know, there's this, we live in a culture now where people think that certain, hmm, this is, this is vague, but I'll color it with examples that certain relationships are weird or certain interactions are weird. Like we talk about this on Dennis and Julie. A lot of guys are afraid to walk up to a cute girl in a restaurant and ask her out because it's seen as, as weird. It seemed like, oh, like perhaps creepy for, for a guy to do that. And I, I've, I've had guy friends who have said, I will sometimes see a cute girl and I— but I don't want to be creepy. And that's so sad that now that word is used to describe what I think is a not creepy— obviously is the potential to be creepy if you're a creep, but going up to someone and asking them out is a lovely thing. But people have that too with like, it's weird to be friends with people who are many multiples your age. Like, I have some friends who are my age, and they know— I don't think they know the extent of my friendships.

Yeah, well, that's odd. But I can tell you that.

Yeah, I can tell that some of them, they— and I have the most amazingly supportive friends, but I can tell that some of them are secretly like, huh?

Yeah, you know, I believe that.

Is that weird? Is that creepy?

But Well, it's a credit to you and it's a credit to them. They're youthful and you're mature.

I don't— but here's the thing, I genuinely, especially with us, people ask me, you know, is Dennis a father figure to you? Is he a grandfather figure? And the answer is no, honestly. I mean, I, you know, I have a wonderful father.

You are—

you're a friend.

You're a best friend. Exactly. And that's how I regard you. I don't regard you at all as daughter-like. People ask me that.

I know.

So the You are, and so am I. I came up with a new term just now in my, in my mind. Age blind.

Yes.

Like color.

I don't discriminate on the basis.

No, no, no, no, no. That's not what color blind means. It doesn't matter. Yeah, that's the point, which is what it should be. Age shouldn't matter any more than it matters in in, in the direction of the youth, right? If you're a quality human, what do I care if you're 24?

It's totally—

it means nothing to me.

Well, that's the thing, that, that people so preclude themselves from having a rich life because they, they set up these artificial boundaries in their heads. They go, oh well, if I'm 24, then I can only be friends with someone within a 5 to 10 year age range. That is BS. I mean, there, there's, there's, um, a 17-year-old girl who listens to Dennis and Julie. I won't say her name, although I think I've shouted her out before, and she emails me sometimes, and I would consider her a friend. And she's what, what's 24 minus 17? I wasn't a math major, I don't know. But she's a deep quality human being. And if we were ever in the same city, we would go to lunch, and I call her a friend. Why would I think that that's— but a lot of girls my age would go, well, that's weird to be friends with a 17-year-old. You're just harming yourself. And I have adopted this philosophy of life, which I think is the secret to everything. Find good people. I don't care if they're 3 times my age. I don't care if they're 7 years younger. I don't care what race they are. I don't care where in the world they are. I don't care what walk of life or what job they do. I mean, Robert Florczak, I'm shouting him out 'cause I've mentioned him. He's one of the 4 to 5 who I speak with frequently. He's an artist. Did I ever think I'd be friends with an artist? I don't consider myself to be an artsy person, but people, people go, oh, well, I'm not interested in that. So this person has nothing to offer me. And he's opened up my entire life to the beauty of art. But it's just, it's just sad that people silo themselves, but they're doing it to themselves.

So I'm segueing. I'm segueing. Wait, I'm segueing.

Funny, titled the episode because I think we've done that subject justice.

It's people, not age. Yeah, people, not race. It's people, not sex. It's people. Okay, gotcha. I, I live it. Uh, part of the reason I have a great life. So when you were mentioning that you're not artsy and you'd never expect to be friends with an artist, etc. So I actually had you in mind last night. You'll find this touching. Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire for his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of— it's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/DennisPrager. So I, right before I went to bed, I decided I was going to really treat myself. So I subscribed to a whole bunch of music websites. So this one was the Berlin Philharmonic website. It's considered often the greatest orchestra in the world, and What were they doing? Uh, Beethoven's Third, right, with Herbert Blumstead. I'll talk about age. This is touch you. So they have recent and old performances on video that you can watch if you subscribe to the Berlin Philharmonic website. So they had Herbert Blumstead. So Sue and I met Herbert Blumstead the week before the COVID lockdowns. We went to Cleveland to hear a Bruckner Symphony, and because we will travel anywhere to hear Bruckner's Fifth or Bruckner's Eighth. And since a few of the members of the Cleveland Orchestra knew me, they invited me backstage and I met Herbert Blomstedt, whom I had listened to all of my life. The man is in his mid-90s and he's conducting. Not only— you should look him up. Not only is he— is he— did he conduct this, this whole symphony, which just even physically takes effort. It's a— it's well over an hour, that symphony, maybe an hour and a quarter, maybe an hour and a half, probably an hour and a half. But he's also— I know this sounds bizarre— he is a very handsome man. Dennis Prager in his 90s with his beautiful— he has beautiful white hair and he's a good-looking man. He's— what is he, Dutch? No, he's, I think, Swedish. And anyway, the guy is vibrant and alive. And I was watching Beethoven's 3rd, and as it came to the end, I started to choke up, which is Very typical of me. I very frequently tear up at classical music, and watching it is so dramatic. I love— I have this romantic view of humanity when I watch an orchestra. I really do. It's— it's— I go into a different world, not only for the music, but watching all these different people. Every one of them is a virtuoso. Every one of them. Is a magnificent ex-player. And, but they have— I always think of this, you must suppress your ego to be a member of an orchestra. You can't show off.

Well, that's what you say about being an all-star versus being on an all-star team.

That's right. Perfect. Yes. It's a perfect example of it. The best example in some ways. So, okay, long story short, I'm watching and listening to Beethoven's Third, and I give you my word, at one point I thought, is it possible for Julie to get to love this? Because, you know, I, I have, thank God, introduced you to a lot of wonderful things. And by the way, it doesn't matter to me. I, it's has no impact on how I see you, whether you fall in love with classical music. Zero. But I was just wondering, you know, given your depth— because I have made peace with the fact that there are deep people who won't love classical music. I made peace with this 50 years ago.

Right.

But nevertheless, knowing you and your openness to like art with Robert Florczak. Could I get you into music? Can you do music with Dennis like art with Robert?

Well, I'm actually trying to do that. In the car nowadays, I'm listening to a classical music playlist and I'm slowly learning to appreciate it. It's sort of like tasting a new food. It's almost like having spicy food for the first time. It's going to be overwhelming, maybe a bit uncomfortable at the beginning, but then you can learn to like it. You know, I've been thinking lately, it's again, whenever you bring up something on Dennis and Julie, it fits so in line with something that I've been contemplating. Because like you, I have theories on everything and I try to take takeaways from everything in life, literally everything. I think that you can learn to love something.

That's right.

And that is a recent realization because I thought, And we've talked about this before. I thought like, okay, you kind of have your interests and those are the boundaries of your life. You know, I never considered myself to be someone who would be interested in art because quite frankly, every time I went to a museum growing up, and God bless my wonderful mother, whenever we would travel, she would take us to a local museum in that city. I remember being so young and sitting there on those couches in the middle of the rooms and kicking my legs and going, Oh, when is this over? And I could, I could understand looking at a painting that it was significant and it was something that I should have a level of respect for, but it never moved me. I couldn't, I just didn't get the whole craze around it. And I guess dedicate this whole episode to Robert, at least at the beginning. Robert fundamentally, permanently changed that for me. And I will always be grateful for him because he— and this is where, like, people, I just want to shout out the secret, you know, seek out mentors and figure out what they have to teach you. You can learn something from everyone and every subject. I was telling you, I was— I had dinner with a doctor recently and I was asking him a lot of questions about his profession. And he taught me interesting things, not just about his work, but that led me to greater life takeaways. People just, again, they silo themselves. And with Robert, Sometimes you need a coach telling you why something is beautiful, and then you can grow to love it. Like, Robert sat with me and he goes, look at the way that that artist painted light. That's just done with pigment. How did he make that figure look glowing, shining? And then you start to go, yeah, you're right, that is— that does take an enormous amount of skill. And then you kind of lay the foundation for loving something. So we've kind of been sold this bill of goods that people have their interests, they have their truths, and they have to stick to them. I think that you can, can learn.

So what they have to have a passion— it's, it's actually, uh, it's worse than that. What most people think is, look, I, I love and then they'll fill in, you know, '70s music. I, I love contemporary music, you know, contemporary pop. I love rock. And that's fine. It's— I have no issue with that whatsoever. But they think, and it's understandable, they think that that's it, that the idea that I I'm just building on your point. The idea that I will yearn to love another form of music— let's say we're talking music, right? Does never, never occurs to them. Uh, it's another similarity of our nature, though. I, I have always felt that. Now let me just make clear, I fell in love with music upon first hearing. Right, literally. So it's clearly that's in my nature and more than in your nature. You— but, uh, and I tell this to Sue, and she, she sort of laughs at me about it. She will, she will come in and hear, let's say, a late Beethoven quartet, which is very dense music, and she said, do you like that? She's not a big fan of it. Uh, she loves classical, but she loves all types, many types of music. Anyway, so she'll— so I will answer her, I'm, I'm working on loving it.

But that is the thing, people, people, people think that if you don't love it immediately, you'll never love it.

That's right. That's the problem with classical music.

Yes. And so I'm building, I, I, and I see myself, I'm listening to Sometimes I would play the first, you know, 30 seconds and get bored and turn it off. I'm listening to longer pieces. I'm understanding.

I want to see the list of pieces that you've been— have you been given or—

Yeah, yeah. Someone gave me a classical music playlist.

Do you remember anything that's on it?

I can whip it out now.

Yeah, I'm very good at it right now. I'm very curious. People ask me all the time, what should I listen to? I mean, for example, it's hard for me to imagine anybody listening to the William Tell Overture by Giacomo Rossini. Is it on there?

I have no idea.

All right. It's hard for me to believe that— now, that, that was the Lone Ranger theme, and that's how it became famous for the, the TV show The Lone Ranger. But I, I find it hard to imagine not liking that?

Well, I think the reason why I now love art so much and I'm becoming enamored with classical music is because there's a seed of awe at the center of it. I think that's the key to loving something, appreciating how much work and skill it took for that individual to produce what they produced.

I weep at the end of a lot of symphonies and I don't I never cry, which is— it's this funny thing. But it— that— there were two of the reasons I love classical music is one is that— one is how deeply it touches my heart, and the other is how deeply it touches my mind. They're not the same. You have the mind part. I don't know if you'll ever have the heart part.

Well, the heart part, I think— I hope this makes sense. But growing up in my generation, we, we are not— we haven't really been connected with those transcendent, eternal, touching things, whether it's music or art or great dramatic plays, theater. Like, our, our influences are so kind of shallow that we haven't learned to be touched. Yeah, we haven't felt what it's like to be touched. Does that make any sense? When you're growing up watching SpongeBob and rap music, you're not connected with the eternal.

Sean wants to offer a thought. There's a disconnect, he says, in America between younger generations and older generations.

It's like old generations are put out to pasture, where in other cultures they're revered.

Right. No.

Yeah, totally.

That's right.

So could they hear you, or do we have to repeat you? We have to repeat. He was saying there's a disconnect between younger generations and older generations, and we used to revere people who were older.

And other cultures.

And other cultures do. I mean, I had a friend in college who's from Poland, and I asked him, I said, what were the main culture shocks coming to the United States? And he said, it is the weirdest thing to me that the way that you treat the elderly, that your grandparents don't live in the home, and that kids don't call their grandparents or visit their grandparents on a consistent basis. He said that above anything else.

That's fascinating.

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it is, it's a horrible loss.

It's terrible.

We lost it again. Tell everybody your number. Yes, of course I won't.

No, I'm not going to tell you my password.

You won't?

I'll tell you, but we're okay.

I know, I am joking. Okay, okay, correct. So the Sasson Organ Symphony is mind-blowing. It's a total— it's—

by the way, this is Jordan Peterson's classical music.

Oh, is that right?

So this is for the public All right, let's see.

Franz Liszt Concerto No. 1 is fantastic. Who does he have play?

There are like 1,000 songs in there and I just shuffle them in the car.

So Liszt wrote 2 piano concertos. He has them both on. They're both fantastic.

See, I have no idea who these people are.

Okay, he has another Liszt piece, Concerto Pathétique. If I don't know of a piece, it's pretty rare. Uh, Beethoven. Okay, so he has all of the— oh, okay. See, I'm not— the only Beethoven symphony I'm not a fan of is the 6th. That's an interesting thing.

So keep scrolling.

Beethoven's 5th. Oh yeah, well, he has the right performance, Carlos Kleiber.

And Jordan also has a, uh, a, uh, blues playlist, jazz.

Oh really?

Yeah, and I just listened to those too because I'm not very literate in classical music, but similarly Yeah, this is a very long list. Yeah, I'm not very— I'm not literate really in, um, in jazz. In jazz, or even in like— for— I was listening to a song the other day called Where Have All the Flowers Gone. It's apparently pretty famous.

Yeah, where have all the flowers gone? You never heard that before? Wasn't that— was that Peter, Paul, and Mary? Yep. Yeah, even God, if I know that, that's really well known.

But, but it shows you that what we don't learn— and, and what I was saying before, I think is really important, that we— you grew up in a culture where there were all these kind of— I know the word eternal is corny, but you could more easily connect with the eternal.

Well, then the things that are touching now, we just have so much only the new is interesting is so stupid because everything was new when it came out.

Yes.

So why did it become a new or, if you will, uninteresting?

Mm-hmm. It's true.

That means that they realize today's new is tomorrow's boring. If that's— if they're right, that time determines whether it's interesting.

Well, there's been a loss of conservatism.

Actually, we don't conserve.

We don't conserve, right? We don't, we don't endeavor to carry on the torch we want to of what they've passed on to us. We want to remake the wheel. That's one of the things that fascinates me about classical art, art that was done between 1400 and 1600. I look at those pieces and I go, wow, they were so far ahead of us and they were many centuries behind us. Isn't that an interesting paradox? Like, we should be creating things that are extraordinarily, you know, building on these great techniques. Like, you know, if you look at art in the 1400s, it's a vast improvement from art in the 1300s, which is a vast improvement from art in the 1200s. Like, there seemed to be this kind of upward trajectory of learning the previous techniques, carrying them on, elevating them, and breaking some new ground. We've turned back the clock. We've gone back to like the primitive drawings on rocks. That's what you see in most exhibits now. It's like a piece of canvas with a line through it.

The age of— and it's been this way for 50 years at least, maybe 100— where the non-talented can, can be celebrated. That was not true in the past. You had to have talent as an artist to be celebrated. Today, you know, look, what was it at the Guggenheim Museum? A guy nailed a banana peel onto the wall.

Yes. You know, when I was younger, I would go to these museums on class trips, modern art museums, and I would look at these paintings and you'd see these people oohing and aahing over like the banana on the wall or the one stroke of paint on a canvas. And I remember feeling like they were a part of a club that I wasn't in on. Like they're seeing something. I have thought it was BS, but there was another half of me that thought there's no way that people can be like, I must be missing something. They're a part of some secret club of understanding that I am unable to reach. And let me tell you, it's BS, right? It's a hoax.

The greatest amount of art in most modern art is the description. I know, that's the art.

I know, it's true. So this segues me nicely into what I wanted to talk about, which is, you know, we're saying that we've kind of reversed course with, with art, with music. We built all this up and now we're coming down. That is true of the way that we regard the dignity of human life. I was recently reading some articles on the prevalence of euthanasia in the Western world. And it is absolutely staggering, some of the things that are going on. Let me just quickly pull out these articles. Actually, where the hell are they?

In this bag.

By the way, I get so much of my news and sources from the Epoch Times. And talk about being a deep person.

The Epoch Times is fantastic.

If you want to be a deep person, get a weekly subscription. They just— it's once a week paper copy. To the Epoch Times, and they have a life and tradition section. I have learned more from that section than any other source. And they profile a painter. They profiled a postcard.

I think it's the most important newspaper outside of the Wall Street Journal.

It really is. Okay. So anyway, so there's this guy, his name is Wesley Smith, and he writes all of these articles on, on this subject, euthanasia. Okay. In the Netherlands, they legalized euthanasia.

Right.

In the early 2000s. And first it was for terminally ill people, then it became for chronically ill people, then it became for the elderly who consented, then it came to people with disabilities, and now it's for people who are depressed or who have mental illnesses. And the same thing is happening in Canada, though on a shorter timescale. They, they legalized euthanasia in 2016, and starting this year, 2024, They will allow you, as long as you have the consent of two doctors, to choose to kill yourself if you have depression.

And how hard is it to get consent from two doctors?

It's, it's crazy. And they have— I mean, you should— everyone should look this guy up, Wesley Smith. And I did a Timeless episode on it too, if you want to watch it. But there are examples of people who report loneliness or they report feeling like they're a burden to their families, and doctors consent to have them being killed. And so there's an— and we see here, this is, this is a quote from this article that, that public, public opinion on this is shifting. For instance, in Canada, 27% of respondents to the survey think that euthanasia should be acceptable for the homeless.

Wait, so it's shifting to even more liberal views on euthanasia?

Yes. Same thing in the Netherlands.

A quarter of where— of what, Americans?

Nope, Canadians.

27% of Canadians think that I'm homeless. Yes, I should. It's okay if I want to kill myself.

Yes. And in the Netherlands, there's this new proposal for a law that is called euthanasia for a completed life. And essentially what they're proposing is if you're over 75 years old and you think you have what's called a completed life, like you've lived enough, then you can be allowed to euthanize yourself. And so this, for the record, this hasn't been passed yet, but 80% of surveyed Dutch voters support that law. Okay. I'm almost done with my little spiel and then I'll kick it over to you for your thoughts. I want to place that article alongside another one. Nature rights paganism advancing in the West. Okay.

Yeah.

In Ireland, there's a joint committee on environment and climate action, which has, quote, according to the BBC, recommended that the government advance a referendum on protecting biodiversity and giving nature human rights. In the, in the Constitution of Ecuador, they give nature rights. In Panama, the Supreme Court shut down a copper mine because the mine has a right not to be discriminated against. Okay.

Persecuted.

Persecuted. So this is what we're seeing. And this is the greater theme. We have worked so hard to advance civilization. This is the kind of stuff that people did centuries and thousands of years ago. We have worked so hard to advance civilization and now we are descending back into the dregs.

So here is the The fact of life today, we are not in a post-Judeo-Christian world. We're moving to a pre-Judeo-Christian world.

Yes, that is well said. That's really true. I'm going to start using that. It is. You're right, it's not post, it's pre, right?

So I'll give you an example. The— what is the Sand House? Sean? Oh, okay, he's not there. The, um, What is the San Jose hockey team's name? The Sharks. Yeah. So the San Jose Sharks had a celebration before one of the— and this is an NHL team. This is the highest level of professional hockey. NHL's National Hockey League. So the San Jose Sharks last year, you'll— this will blow your mind— had an evening a salute to the Aztecs. Now, do you know how much human sacrifice the Aztecs engaged in?

Totally.

I mean, now, if there's any group that I'm not dying to salute, it's those who engaged in human sacrifice.

Oh, I—

but that's what they're doing. That's what I say. Pre-Torah.

Well, you know what? Here's the thing about this. Euthanasia is a very complicated subject. I actually really appreciate hearing your thoughts on it because if I may, I, and you, you've written about this publicly. I know that you have a particularly close example with Bruce, right? Um, which we'll, we'll provide details about in a moment. But you know, I, I've contemplated this because of my sister with autism, you know, and, and the amount that, that she has suffered and been sub subjected to terrible care.

Severe autism. I want people to understand. Yes.

Yes. It's very, I mean, I'm not— that doesn't mean I'm for— I'm saying I've thought about this, right?

And I understand your honesty is exemplary. Go ahead.

Of course. I mean, anybody who has a relative with a severe disability sees how much they suffer.

Why would it be permanent?

Yes. And so I understand, too. I was reading comments online about euthanasia and people were saying, I had a sister who had a brain tumor and watching her suffer in the final few months was was just inhumane. So I understand this is complicated, but we're now in the territory where, you know, people are supporting the homeless, people are supporting if you're depressed, and it just reflects a greater dimin— I always struggle with this word— diminution in the value of human life. Mike Lindell and MyPillow employees want to thank all of our listeners for your continued support. To thank you, they're having an overstock clearance sale right now for the best prices ever when you use the promo code Hartmann. And you get free shipping on your entire order. Get 50% off of the MyPillow 2.0 and the brand new flannel sheets that just arrived and won't last long. Get 6-pack towel sets for only $29.98 and take advantage of free shipping on larger items like mattresses and mattress toppers, 100% made in the USA and on sale for as low as $99.99. Everything is on sale. From the brand new kitchen towels that have the same technology as the bath towels that actually absorb, dog beds, blankets, couch pillows, and so much more. To get the best specials ever, go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Hartmann, or call 1-800-566-6745 and get free shipping on your entire order while supplies last. And we see this with abortion. You know, I've talked about on this show how I'm conflicted on the subject of abortion, but there is no doubt we're so lackadaisical physical about it. We talk about it like it's, it's this celebratory thing. We have— we don't, we don't even deal with it with the gravity that it deserves. It is killing a human life. Look at fentanyl. Look at crime. Look at all of the— like, I even notice when I pass a homeless person on the street, it doesn't hit me as much as it used to when I was younger. And I saw a homeless person, I was heartbroken. I remember talking with my dad about volunteering at shelter. It really affected me. And now you see these people everywhere and all of us just kind of walk by it like it's nothing. And then at the same time, we see these people who are throwing soup cans at the Mona Lisa. It's like they care. Can you imagine if they channeled their, their rage to rage against fentanyl and against crime? They're more outraged by the climate than they are by human suffering. That's weird.

That's right. Couldn't say it better. That's exactly right.

And it's just we're bathed in this culture that we kind of consume it and we don't realize that the thing that has made the West great is that we have placed an outsized value on human life. And now that's being rolled back.

But your ambivalence is worthy in cases like the example that you gave, that I gave, is my stepson's dad, the, the father of Sue's kids, had a horrible accident. He fell off a ladder. He fell on his stomach onto the stairs of the ladder, did horrible damage to himself, and he was in agonizing pain. And they took him off painkillers because they didn't want him— the doctors were afraid to overdose and have him addicted to opioids, which were the only thing that could stop the pain. In fact, I met a man a few years afterwards who was on opioids for a very similar thing in his stomach or stomach area and was doing fine. The guy went to work every day. Thanks to the opioids. But Bruce could not get them, and he finally killed— he shot himself to death. He killed himself. I spoke at his memorial service, and I said I fully agree with what Bruce did. I wanted people there not to have any embarrassment. They were thrilled that I said this because a lot of them had respect for me. And I do— I wrote an article, it's on the internet, about the father of my stepsons who killed himself. And I don't blame him, and I don't blame the concept of euthanasia. I blame the lack of seriousness in painkilling work in medicine.

Well, I don't know if Bruce's situation argues for euthanasia. I think it's more so argues that he should have been prescribed the painkillers.

That's what it argues for. But he wasn't.

Right.

I mean, that's just the way it is. Yes, you're right. My belief is that it should— there are times when it is morally justified. I don't believe that God is honored by horrific suffering of innocent people. Yeah, that cannot be undone. So I just want to say that as a religious person, I do believe that. However, once society makes it legal as opposed to looks away when it happens, you get the slippery slope you described earlier.

Right. I mean, I would have been fine with it had they just kept it to originally what it was made to do. You know, people out of horrific and who have irreversible terminal illness, suffering, you know. But now it's so liberalized in age, but that's inevitable.

That, that's what happens. So the trick is doctors and, and the patients and the patient's loved ones decide on it, and we don't prosecute the doctor.

Really? You think that's the solution?

That's, that's what I believe is the solution.

Wow.

See, I don't like that either.

Well, I don't like that either. Well, okay, so fine.

We need—

wait, all I could say is once you legalize it, it will— it will— there's an inevitability. In other words, it is absolutely assured that it will happen what you describe.

I don't think there is an inevitability. And, you know, if we— the problem is the health of our society has is terrible. And I think if we were a healthy population, if we had our heads screwed on straight, we would understand that the limits of this, of allowing this.

I don't think so.

I don't think it's inevitable.

Tell me. I'll give you an example having nothing to do with euthanasia. Civil rights legislation.

Well, yeah.

So I was passionately for it. I was a kid. But I was passionately for it because it was so egregious. What the discrimination— a Black can't eat at a lunch counter. I mean, that's absurd, right? Can't check into a hotel. But Barry Goldwater was right. He said it's disgusting. He founded the NAACP in Arizona. That's how committed he was.

And he desegregated his family business.

Goldwater, he was— he was magnificent on the— on on the issue of blacks and discrimination. He was. But he was against the civil rights legislation as a law. He said there will be no end. There were two reasons he gave. First of all, if we're really a free society, people should be free to be obnoxious. And he's right. And he turned out right. And I say this as a Jew. You're an anti-Semite and you don't want me to eat in your restaurant because I'm a Jew, you should have the right to be despicable. Because the greater threat to my society, at least American society, is not that all of a sudden all restaurants will close down to Jews. The greater threat is that tomorrow you won't want a Nazi to dine in your restaurant and you won't be able to block it. So Anyway, he predicted correctly that one was the freedom issue and the other was government intervention. Yes, that it won't end. And now it hasn't ended.

Oh, prime example. The state of California on January 1st, 2024, mandated that if you are a department store with over 500 employees, you have to have a gender-neutral toy section in your department store. Guess what they cited? The Unruh Civil Rights Act of the state of California.

Okay.

You are discriminating on the basis of gender by not Affirming, right? That's what they use in the— I read the documents affirming people's gender.

Now, that never-ending addition, Vietnam-era status, trans, everything, it doesn't end. I remember on the radio saying, well, wait a minute, folks, Let me understand something. I run a retail operation. I run a retail store, and one of my salesmen decides to wear a dress. Can I, as the employer, say, I'm sorry, I'd like you— you're a man, and I'm talking— not talking trans. He identifies as a man, but he wants to wear women's clothing. It's very common. I don't get it, but it's very common. And why can't I as an employer say, I'm sorry, it makes most of our customers uncomfortable. We are a retail business. We need customer goodwill. Don't wear a skirt to work if you have a beard. But under legislation, I would be sued up the kazoo. Because of civil rights legislation. So that's why I say to you that as soon as you would allow euthanasia legally on X, it will be 2X, then 1Y, then 1Z, or 1Z for our listeners outside of the US.

Well, to support your point, we saw this with abortion, that when abortion was legalized, it just skyrocketed. And at the— in, in 1973, when Roe was passed, both Democrats and the Republicans, the few Republicans who supported it, agreed: safe, legal, rare. And to your point, it just spun out of control. So I hear you, but it's— I— your alternative of the doctors just not— that, that has its own slippery slope.

Totally.

Well, doctors can just kind of wink wink, nod nod, do things on the side, including killing people.

That's right.

And That's not pro— either way, you're— either way, we're screwed. But yeah, no, seriously, either way it sucks.

No, no, that's correct.

But I, you know, I, I know I'm kind of a broken record with this, but the, the amount that I talk about the Bible and God on the show, I feel like especially recently I've been very heavy on it.

No, okay, go ahead.

So much of what we are seeing is a rebellion against Judeo-Christian values.

Yeah.

And the antidote to it, I mean, it— for, for instance, this whole idea of more countries are granting human rights status to nature.

That's what I said. We're going to pre-Judeo-Christian.

You read the, you know, in the first 30 chapters of Genesis, it's saying, you know, human beings are created in God's image and likeness. Nature, you know, plants and trees are not. In Genesis, I think it's verse 26 of chapter, uh, oh, which— oh, sorry, I cursed. I'm sorry. I really want to know my, my my chapters and verses by heart, but I'm not there yet. But it says when they're created, when God says man is in our image and in our likeness— 1:26. Thank you. He says, and man will rule over the birds and the creeping things in nature. It is like God gets it. It's a prescription of— it doesn't mean that, you know, you should inflict suffering on animals. You know, you shouldn't be like unruly in nature, but human beings have a superior status to nature. And now we're seeing the opposite, where nature is increasingly having a superior status to human beings.

God has a superior status to us.

Yes.

Parents have a superior status to us.

Well, that's what you write in, right, about distinctions.

Yes, distinctions. It's everything.

And we don't, we don't have distinctions anymore, but, but So much of this is just like you can literally outline, here's the biblical value, here's the exact way that it's being inverted.

Leftism is the— I don't use the term Antichrist. A, I'm not Christian, but B, you know, it's not for me to use therefore. So I will only say it is the anti-Bible. Dennis Prager here with a man I have come to admire. For his work. So when I asked him, what do you do? This is the title he gave: Wealth Architect.

Very simply put, I am a wealth architect that helps my clients accelerate the way they grow your wealth. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. The Internal Revenue Code is embedded with a number of things that you can take advantage of. It's what I call playing tax chess. We take the time to play tax chess in your favor. We give our clients unbiased, independent advice across all areas in their financial life because we have no incentive to sell anything.

I was taken enough and impressed enough to have you do my work, and you have in fact saved me a serious amount of money. CharlesDombek.com/Prager. Anti-Bible. It is the antithesis of biblical values. It's the antithesis of American values. The American Trinity is—

by the way, they admit this.

This is, you know, they actually say this American Trinity, e pluribus unum, liberty and God we trust. What the left hates all three values. So why there's a two, two national anthems at the Super Bowl. I really can't tell. You didn't know that?

I didn't know that. I don't watch any football.

Oh, no, you don't have to watch football. This is a very— this is a huge issue. It's the subject of one of my columns that the Super Bowl has, has two— the national anthem and the Black national anthem.

Another—

we're a member of two. There are two nations in America, Americans and Black Americans.

And again, look at all that we did to get to the point of colorblindness and unity. And then we're going back, as you say, it's an— we're going back to the pre— I mean, who— what other group in American history would support having two national anthems? The KKK and white supremacists. So we did all this work to rid, right, that terrible egregiousness from our— the way that we do things. And then now we're reverting back to Canada.

It's It's now common on campuses. You have black dorms, black, black restaurants, black— it is everything exists just for blacks and just for whites. Well, progressivism is so progressive that it's regressive, maybe because it goes in a circle.

But what, you know, why do you think it is? I cited the example of the people throwing the soup at the Mona Lisa. And I want to say to them, are you as angry about the fentanyl overdoses and the slaughter of innocent human beings on the street and people dying seeking euthanasia because they're depressed and they're alone? Are you as outraged about that as you are by climate change? And the answer is no, because you see how they're directing their energies. Why? Why do you think that is?

Why do you think that is? Well, it's the abandonment of the Judeo-Christian value system. I mean, you, in a sense, have preceded it with the answer.

I think there's another answer. I agree with you. That's 80% of it. I think that fighting, crusading against climate change is the far easier battle.

Correct.

And people want to have the glory, right, of being a change maker.

Well, I've said this all of my life. The left fights made-up evils. That's right. Like, here again, back to race. There's so little racism in the United States, they call it microaggressions. They acknowledge it's micro. It's in the micro and they are micro. And then they make up nonsense as So to say you're race-blind, it means you're racist. That's a lie. Race-blind is the opposite, literally the opposite of racist. So they fight nothing. The perfect example is they crap on Christians and they bow down to Muslims. Piss Christ, a crucifix in urine, went to museums all over America. Would they put a Quran in urine? Of course not, because they're afraid of Muslims. They're not afraid of Christians. Left doesn't battle bad people. They never did. That's why they never battled the communists.

Not that you're saying that— I know people are going to cut it and go, you're saying Muslims are bad people, or—

Right. Of course. Okay, good. I'm glad you said that.

Because I know—

Talking about the Islamists, talking about the radical Islamists. We're not talking about all Muslims. But when I said they fear Muslims, that's a totally accurate statement.

It is true.

And they don't fear Christians. That's a totally accurate statement. That doesn't mean every single Muslim is frightening. I— but what I said is, is literally accurate. The left doesn't fear Christians, and they do fear Muslims. So therefore, they, they will never put a Muslim symbol in urine, and they're okay— they celebrate putting a cross, in this case a crucifix, in in urine.

That's the Andres Serrano.

Yes.

Art piece. Yes. For those deep, very, very deep.

Yes.

But you know what the irony is, that it actually shows the beauty of Christianity.

Of course it does.

You can do that. That's nothing's going to happen to him.

Correct. Yes.

Ironically, he's kind of proving the point of how wonderful Christianity is.

You would think. And but people don't put— they put Quran and Quran and, you know, or if you simply paint a picture of Muhammad cartoon of you, there's a good chance you will die.

Yes.

Die.

Yes.

Not be protested against.

Yep. I mean, I had Robert Spencer on my show who's a— who's a study.

I'm surprised if Robert Spencer doesn't live in a fort.

He does.

I believe it.

Well, he does. I mean, literally, he— we came on Zoom and he was in a black, dark room and only his face was illuminated by the screen. And Sean and Rick asked me to ask him, you know, could you, could you change the orientation? Could you turn on some lights? It looks really weird. And he said no. And I said, why? And he said, ISIS tried to execute me in 2015. I was poisoned in Iceland by Islamic jihadists. Thank God I survived in Iceland. And he said, I cannot give anybody any indication of what my home looks like. I don't want them to see the size and shape of my windows because that can be an indication of where I live. Can you imagine living in that kind of fear? Does anybody who criticizes Christianity live in that kind of fear?

Truly, that's right. That's the point.

And that, of course, and again, it sucks that we always have to do—

No, you don't have to say that.

It doesn't mean that every Muslim would go after you. Of course not.

And by the way, only the left does that. The left is distorts everything we say. Everything.

I know.

Because truth is not a left-wing value. Truth is not a left-wing value. Once you know that, you understand 50% of what you need to understand to understand the world today.

Right. But back to the Mona Lisa soup throwers. I, I think a lot of this is, is ease and it's that they don't want to get their hands dirty morally. And you know, if you take on a cause like euthanasia, I mean, even in the limited research that I was doing for my episode, It is gory stuff. 'Cause I read comments, I watch videos of people who have considered this as an option and you learn just terrible, terrible things. It doesn't brighten your day, you know? And so people, I think, choose the easier causes because, and I'm not saying fighting against climate change is all bad, but it is an easy cause compared to the vast numbers of suffering in the world. And I think they do it because a lot of them want the glory. They want the praise, but they don't actually want to confront real evil. I see that here in Los Angeles. There are a lot of really, really affluent people in this city whose primary philanthropic cause is the LA River. The river. And I want to say to these people, wow, you're supporting the LA River? Really?

Did they get a thank you note from the river?

I don't think so. The river may have human rights, but the river does not have human characteristics, at least not yet.

Well, I was thinking there is a love of nature that goes beyond the healthy. I love nature. Any normal human being loves nature.

But right. And this is what I have a problem with is that it's substituting love of nature for love of— or it's perhaps that's not the best word, but it's like, yes, people love and glorify nature more than they do human beings. You should, you know, if you're going through your day and you're thinking overwhelmingly about recycling and about carbon emissions and about maybe I should bike or maybe I'm not saying that's bad, but if you're thinking about that in excess, at the expense of thinking how you might be able to help a homeless person on the street or how you might be able to call your grandmother. That's a problem. And that's what, that's what the situation we're in.

I wrote an essay a few months ago that young Americans have not been taught about evil.

Oh, it's so true. Look at, look how often that term is thrown around. I am very careful to reserve that term only for when— and by the way, I'm careful with all these terms because as, as you and I often talk about the word racism, the word sexism, the word bigotry, the word white supremacy, they've all been distorted. But I really reserve— so I try to use all of those appropriately, but especially evil.

But they don't know anything. What is it? Nearly 40% never heard of Auschwitz. I'm sure 80% never heard of Gulag. I'm sure 80%, 90% don't know about the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in China and the famine. I mean, we're talking about, you know, just those things. And Cambodia, how many have heard of Pol Pot? If you don't know evil, then you get really angry about climate change. That's your point. That's exactly it. Oh, there's not that much evil to fight. I'll fight lesser evils.

And evil is the norm. I mean, I was thinking the other day, it just hit me. I thought, what percent of the world is American? And I went online, 4% of the world. We're only 4% of the world. And obviously that doesn't mean that everywhere else there's all this evil and we're the enclave of goodness. Of course that's not what it means. But like, What percentage of the world live in free Western countries where you, if you're a woman, can wear your hair down and have equal rights? Where if you're gay, you can have— I mean, we are the— we're in this little enclave, and the vast majority of the world lives in authoritarian, dictatorial, poverty-stricken, crime-ridden, gang-ruling places.

That's right.

But we don't know.

We're moving there.

We're moving. Well, that's the whole theme of the episode. Climb the hill, going back down.

That's Sisyphus. You know about this?

I do, actually. I'm proud that I know that. Whenever I don't know a reference, I write it down and I learn it.

I love that about you. That's very impressive. I, I do the same thing. I If I, to this day, if I come across a word I don't understand in English, I look it up.

I know. I, that, that's sort of why, like, I seek out these older friendships. It's, it's, it's an opportunity to, to learn and, and better yourself. Like they've walked down the path of life and they can tell me all the answers. Learning a new word, it's like another notch on your belt. I, I view it as cool. Maybe I'm just a nerd. By the way, we're matching today.

How so?

You're blue, I'm blue. Where did you get that tie? Is that Lilly Pulitzer?

No.

Do you buy your own ties?

No. Yeah, I do. Yeah, because I have to get tall men.

Where do you get them from?

Wherever. Whoever sells tall ties. Well, this is a tall tie. Extra long. Extra long. My body's too long.

Forgive me.

This is Italian silk. Yes. Ziamatti. Ziamatti.

You know, by the way, something I learned— I was reading Bernard Lewis's book on Islam, and in a lot of Muslim societies, they don't have men wear a tie. You know why?

Why?

It resembles the cross.

Hmm. That's why Sean doesn't wear a tie. Yeah. You finally, finally figured it out.

What's my email?

Your email is Dennis@DennisPrager.com.

Is that the— is that your public email? Yeah, that's the email that I sent to you.

That's right.

And it's amazing you saw it. That's actually good. You should publicize your email in addition to mine.

Dennis@DennisPrager.com. But you should definitely write Julie because She forwards some of the best ones to me.

I do.

They're very touching, actually, what people write. A lot of people come over to me at speeches and say they really love Dennis and Julie.

Well, we do too.

That's true. All right, tell them.

Julie at julie-hartman.com. Thank you to all of you who write in to me. Love hearing from you. And you can follow me at Julie R. Hartman on Instagram and Twitter. You can follow Dennis @TheDennisPrager on Instagram and @DennisPrager on Twitter. Shalom.

This is it. Tell me, folks, that's a great way to end. Listen.

We should end with a new classical song every episode.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his The audience splits 3 ways: 1/3 chooses the dog, 1/3 chooses the stranger, and 1/3 aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.