Bridging the Gap

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everybody, Dennis and Julie, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Hi Julie.

Hi Dennis.

Okay folks, hope you enjoyed the show.

So funny, usually in the first 5 seconds, yeah, something happens.

That's so amazing.

Something happens.

But I want you to know, as far as I'm concerned, nothing happened. Just for the record, nothing happened. I mean, it's actually— it got to the point, you know what entered my brain?

What?

To give you an idea of how truly nothing entered my brain.

Yes.

I was going to ask. So, folks, have I ever worn the same tie and shirt?

I like this one. You're a colorful shirt guy.

Yeah.

Why?

I have no answer.

Mrs. P sets it up.

Yeah, but I do lie. I agree with you. Anyway, so you have something in mind, you said to me.

I do. I do. But I just want to tell all of you to please email me at julie@julie-hartman.com. You know, usually I do this at the end, but I want to actually make a point of saying something at the beginning because the emails that we get from listeners are truly spectacular.

I've seen—

and I regret so much that we don't have the time to respond to all of them.

But right. But it is important that people know how much we, we cherish them.

We cherish them. And I got an email this morning from someone who's, who's, who's gay, by the way. Isn't it interesting? Like so many people who don't understand us politically or religiously, they would think that only white males listen to our show.

That's right.

By the way, we're a white male friendly show. White males most welcome. But I actually, I wonder if you get this on your radio show. I get emails from the most quote unquote diverse people. This morning I got an email, for instance, from a Dennis and Julie listener who is gay. And he wrote me the most thoughtful note about how the way that we describe conservatism or the way sometimes when I talk about my conservatism in college, he says it reminds him of his experience coming out of the closet 30 years ago?

You should know, and he should know, 35 years ago, I was going to say 40, but more like 35 years ago. I— so I was in my 30s and I— early 30s, and a guy called my show. So you have to understand, at that time, unlike today, vast numbers of listeners were young because that's all there was, was radio.

Yes.

There was no podcasting, no internet, nothing. So I was in my 30s and vast numbers of my listeners were in their 30s. Makes perfect sense. So, so a guy in his 30s calls me up and he says, Dennis, I'm gay and I just want you to know I work in Hollywood. Now remember, this is 35 years ago and he said this. It is, that's very important that this is 35.

Of course.

On both points that he made. I want you to know, he was dead serious and I dead believed him. I want you to know it was much hard, no, no, he didn't even say that. He said, yeah, it's much harder to come out as a conservative than to come out as gay in Hollywood?

In Hollywood? Oh, certainly. Most certainly.

35 years ago.

Okay, well, can you imagine today?

Yes.

Yes, that's the perfect answer. Yes, you can.

Yes, exactly. It was the perfect— it is the— I mean, coming out as gay 35 years ago, of course, took some courage.

A lot of courage, right?

But that's why the call— that's what I said. The call is dramatic on both parts, that he would— that how difficult it was to come out as gay and it was still tougher to come out as a conservative.

Oh, boy. Okay. So I actually had a topic, but now I am— I want to go with this new question I have. Do you ever wonder if you were put at a different time and place in history, how you would react to the culture then. I think it's a very, very important exercise that we do because, you know, in America right now, we think that we are so enlightened. We look back at people 35, 40 years ago who, you know, who may have, let's say, you know, in the case of this person's parent, this gay individual who wrote to me, we would look at their parents who maybe had a hard time with their son being gay and we would judge them as being so primitive in their mindset. We judge people for owning slaves, and of course that was a moral atrocity. That was evil to hold slaves. But in other words, we judge people so harshly for what they did in the past, and we fancy ourselves to be these morally enlightened people. And yet look at us, we're transing the kids. We're, you know, we're so hubristic.

Well, what about separate dorms? Separate Black dorms? We are far more racist today. Right. What liberals— well, not liberals— what leftists advocate today vis-à-vis race was regarded by liberals when I grew up as pure racism. Yes. An all-Black dorm. Was inconceivable. An all-Black graduation exercise.

Only people who wanted that was the KKK.

Yes, exactly.

But this is, this is so important because, because now objective racism, I believe that is objective racism, separating people based on their race.

If that isn't racist, that isn't racism.

I don't know what is. Also, there's so much, you know, There is so much racism that I see where, for instance, you know, I have— believe it or not, I have Black friends. I say believe it or not because—

I know, I know.

Exactly. We're conservative. And isn't it so crazy to think that a conservative would have Black friends? And I noticed that there are some other friends of mine who are also friends with my fellow Black friends who will censor what they say around those Black friends out of fear of—

Blacks are not real to leftists.

They're not real.

They're not real.

It's so racist. I view it as so racist. And, you know, I have some friends.

That is the reason. Forgive me. This is so important. This is so important. Whenever a white gets up in front of a classroom and announces, like the woman who wrote White Fragility, And these professors will announce, you know, all whites are racist, and that includes me. What they're saying is I am racist and therefore assume all whites are as big an asshole as I am. Yeah, that's all it means. I, hello, am not racist. I don't give a damn about your color. End of issue.

You mean you, Dennis Prager?

Yes, I, Dennis. They— that the biggest white racists are leftists. That must be understood. Some liberals are, some conservatives are, all leftists are, and they admit it. When they say all whites are racist and include themselves, they are telling you, I am racially a primitive.

Okay, you know what's so— this is a really amazing topic, actually. I find conservatives, and I grew up in a mostly, I mean, to put it mildly, a mostly liberal environment. Liberal schools, liberal neighborhoods. Obviously, I went to a quite liberal college, and my home was liberal in like a classical liberal sense, but my schools were more like woke liberal.

Gotcha.

But I mean, certainly, you know, Harvard is liberal, woke liberal. And now that I've entered the conservative world with you, with the Shabbat dinner crew, with my, you know, going to the ARC conference, I just spoke at the Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation at Oxford. I was just speaking at anti-communist conferences in Romania and Hungary. Now, those are international, so we'll put them in a separate category. But I've spoken in Washington State, Washington, D.C., Oklahoma City. I am— I've been very blessed to be really embedded in conservative circles here in America. They are the diverse ones. Let me just tell you something. They are the diverse ones. Look at you, Dennis Prager. You adopted a son. And I know you so well, you love— it is not even a question. The fact that I'm bringing it up, I know you so well, it's like, why would you even bring it up? It's not even a question. You love Aaron as strongly and as equally as you love David. Not even a question.

Not even a question.

Okay. I mean, it's unbelievable. To speak personally for a moment, Dennis and I are very close friends. And Dennis and I, you know, I don't speak about it on the air, but I speak to Dennis about my romantic romantic life. Think about the races of some of the people in my romantic life, going back to when you knew me 4 years ago.

No, that is very significant. Yes.

And I don't want to say anything more than that, but—

Right. I was going to raise it, but I didn't.

I know, that's okay. I'm raising it.

I just—

Dennis, you know, I just prefer to keep some things private, at least now in my career.

I get it.

But think about—

For their sake.

For their sake as well as my sake. That's right. Think of the racial diversity of Julie Hartman's love interests. I could go on. I mean, look at Dave Rubin, look at Caitlyn Jenner, look at, you know, I mean, look at Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court who adopted Black children. I mean, I could go on and on. Look at Candace, someone like Candace Owens who married a white guy, George Farmer. I mean, it's— look at a place like The Daily Wire. The Daily Wire is run by Ben Shapiro, a conservative Jew, and Jeremy Boreing, who is a committed Christian. If that's not diversity, starting a company together, I don't know what is. And so my point is these— I shouted out the email and it's really been amazing, you know, for me as I've been coming up in the world and as I've been you know, undergoing my professional journey and seeing these shows. When I guest host your radio show, I did a, I did a history hour on Iran and Iraq. We had the most— you can't imagine how diverse the people who called into your radio show were. I really appreciated your radio show. I started talking about Iran. All these Persians call in. We have all these Iraqis calling in. We have— I had a Catholic Syriac call your show. I guest hosted for you a few months ago. There was a 65-year-old woman named Amy who's transgender. That's right, transgender, who called your show and said, I feel homeless politically because I'm transgender, but I'm so sickened by the left's LGBTQ agenda. I had a young woman who emailed me, 25 years old, who is transgender and said the same thing. I love Dennis and Julie because I feel like I have a home with you guys. I don't feel like I have a community. This person said, I acknowledge I have a mental illness, and by acknowledging that I have a mental illness, I am made a pariah in my own transgender community. And I just want to brag for us for a moment, but really I'm bragging on behalf of the listeners, on behalf of us. We are— that is so cool, Dennis, that we're attracting such a truly diverse crowd. And we just want— I really want to speak for you here. We just want you to know how much we appreciate you listeners, all of you, whatever, whatever your orientation. Yes, that's right.

Religion. So here's an interesting one for you.

Sure.

And you, you, you might be able to comment on this given I'm hesitating because theoretically, because you're so young, you didn't have that long a period when you were a person on the other side politically. But nevertheless, you entered college as a liberal.

Oh, I joined the Harvard College Democrats, which, trust me, I've repented for.

Right. So I don't know your answer, but I only know you'll be honest. To the extent that you're capable, or even that the question is legitimate. It may not be legitimate. And you could say that, you know, I don't have a problem with being corrected or criticized, but I did. Do you find both sides, forget politically diverse, just equally nice, decent? Yes.

No. You know my answer.

So go ahead, tell everybody.

It is not even a question that the conservatives who I have met and the liberals, the classical liberals, though they are very, very few and far between these days.

That's right.

But the class, the true classical liberals and the conservatives, this is my life experience, are far more decent, far more generous, far more empathetic, far more diverse. Far more inclusive than leftists in my life. There's not even a question.

It's actually dramatic.

It's quite dramatic.

Yeah, I went through it. I was a Democrat. Look, I'm a Jew from New York. It's on my birth certificate. As I always say, on the left, gender is changeable, but political orientation is not.

That is a good line. Yeah, that's permanent.

Yes. So I, Being a New Yorker, going to Brooklyn College, at Columbia University, I, you name it, I had every characteristic of a liberal. New York, Jew, Columbia, you can't get more. So I just want to say, eventually in my, it took a while unlike you, but when I finally started interacting with many conservatives, it blew my mind.

Yes, me too.

These are finer people.

You blew my mind when I met you. You blew my mind.

Oh, I never thought— I never thought—

I really— I— because, well, I'll tell you a really funny story. So when I first started working with— well, the first time I ever went into this studio was when you invited me in to watch an hour of your radio show because I had emailed Dennis. He was gracious enough to respond. I emailed him saying, you changed my life, because you did.

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American Federal See, this story is so amazing and how the fact that I have a show with you right now is so—

well, it amazes you more than me.

But I became— you guys, I was a liberal. I was super pro-choice. I was— I was never a leftist. I was open-minded. I really was. But I was— I thought the conservatives were simple-minded bigots. I really did.

Right.

With Black Lives Matter and the COVID lockdowns, I discovered Dennis Prager through PragerU, and then I ordered his books, and I became obsessed with Dennis. I remember listening to you, and I would walk around because we could only walk, we could only leave our house and walk outside with a mask during COVID lockdowns in the liberal neighborhoods that followed it, and I would listen to you, and you would say these things. I actually remember one thing you said that has stuck with me to this day. You were just talking on your radio show, and you said, you know, if you ever want to do more of something, if you want to become a reader, if you want to become a writer, if you want to become a, you know, if you want to work out more, just start with 5 minutes a day. That's it. And think about how many— if you just do it 5 minutes a day, it will compound. And that, to me, was so wise. I mean, no offense, now I'm like, well, duh. But back then, it was so— it was life-changing. Where were we going? Yes, you blew my mind. Yes. So I'm just kind of giving a background. And then when I first went in to see Dennis on his radio show, he graciously invited me on. And then after that, a few days later, you very graciously invited me to your home to sit and watch a fireside chat. And you blew my mind because I remember walking into your house, and anybody who watches the fireside chat, it's Dennis's library, but you don't see all of it. And you had the most, at the time, what I viewed to be politically incorrect things up in your house ever. All these Bibles. And again, it's really, it's amazing to put myself back in that situation. And I hope this is helpful to listeners who may have children or relatives or, you know, who are liberal. When you are not used to religion, when you're not used to clear, you know, like very diverse thinking, when you see these things, it's really jarring. And at that point, I had already loved you. I was already pretty much conservative. You know, I had gotten into the world.

Oh, I didn't know. Maybe he's really a little out of it.

I thought I was a little skeptical. You know, I didn't know you. And so I go into your house and I see all these Bibles. You have Robert Spencer's book, and I had Robert Spencer on my show. Robert Spencer is a genius, and it's in his book is literally called The History of Islam from Muhammad to Jihad. And I'm like, oh my God, this guy is super conservative. You had a— you have a Trump hat in Israeli that says Trump in Hebrew. In Hebrew. Sorry. That's right. In Hebrew, this Trump hat. And I was like, what's that? And you're just smoking on your cigar and you're like, just so nonchalantly, you go, it's It means Trump in Hebrew. Click on your computer. You have— I mean, it's like, it's like trigger central, his home, for liberals. You have— I think you had like a, you know, a dog toy that was like, I guess, well, now you have a dog toy that's Kamala. But, you know, everywhere you went, there were these— you— there was a picture. There's a picture of you and Pope John Paul II in your house. I'm like, oh my God, this guy's super religious.

Clarence Thomas.

Clarence Thomas. You know, we can— we could go on with I now go into your office and it's like Mecca for me. It's like Jerusalem. It's the holy place. I love it. I pull out books. I look at them. I love seeing your little trinkets. But to someone who was a liberal, you can't contemplate, really, and I don't like speaking in our side versus, you know, Viktor Frankl was right when he said there are only two races, the decent and the indecent. And I swear to God, that's how I view the world. Nevertheless, however, in the conservative world, people can't imagine just how inclusive it is and just how free it is, where I could pull any book off of your bookshelf about anything and challenge you, and you would probably have another book that would go along with my challenge. You know, you're— it's such a free and intellectually rich and lovely world. But to people who don't know it, like me, it literally was jarring at first because you're so brainwashed to believe that conservatives are simple-minded, small-minded people. And truthfully, when I walked into your house and saw the Muhammad book, I thought he hates Islam. Like he hates— or when I saw the Trump thing, I thought like, oh, he's this Trump fanatic. Or when I saw the Bible, it was actually just a souvenir. I know, I know this now, but I walked in, I saw your Bibles, and I thought he's a religious zealot.

Right. Of course.

How do you react to that?

Well, I know that that's how people feel. And, and there is a brainwash. The fact that the average— and this is true liberals, not just, not just leftist liberals as well. Who really do have a picture of conservatives as aside from bigoted, etc., but as intellectually inferior.

Yes.

But which, by the way, by the way, for the record, the opposite. Yes, it is the opposite. It's amazing. That's exactly what I was going to say. Intellectually, there is no comparison. Conservative intellectuals run rings around left-wing intellectuals.

It is just true. I mean, it is because if Larry Elder were to debate Ibram X. Kendi, it's not even a question.

Ibram X. Kendi would lose his career.

Well, let me tell you why this is. I mean, there's a very obvious reason for why this is. We are conservatives. We are endeavoring to conserve something. That's why all of us, I mean, you have books all around your library. By the way, how many books do you think you have? Thousands. It must be.

Well, I have many thousands, but you see just a fraction of that room.

I know you probably have some in storage. And by the way, I'm having this problem. The other day, Alan was throwing out books because we—

Oh, I know. That's hilarious.

And I was digging them out of the trash.

Yeah, I love you for doing that.

To take them home because I love books, but it's actually becoming a space problem for me. But anyway, Bingo. What were you talking about?

Running rings around them.

Thank you. There's a reason for this. We endeavor to conserve the principles of the American founding. So think about it. We read— I'm not— I mean, I would bet that conservatives read more than leftists. We read the Declaration of Independence. We read the Federalist Papers. We read the Constitution of the United States. We read Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. We like, we read the canon. I know I love reading.

We read the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and the Wall Street Journal and the Epoch Times.

And, and here we read because, and so there, but there, there's truly, and this is so important, progressives endeavor, it's in the word to progress. Away from something. We fundamentally endeavor to conserve something. You know, current at the time of this filming, Vice President Kamala Harris, let's pray that she's never a president. Let's pray that this episode is so timeless that she will always be known in history as the vice president. But she was giving a speech at the Democratic National Convention the other day, and she had this line where she said, you know, Trump and his MAGA Republicans are, you know, conservatives. They want to live in the past. And then she's nodding, you know, you know, her laugh.

And then she goes, the whole stadium with her, the whole stadium cackling.

And she goes, we want to live in the past. They want to live in the past. But we We want to live in the future. And then everybody claps. And guess what, Dennis Prager? She's right. She's— you know what? I paused that and I said, guess what? You're right. And you know another thing she said that I couldn't dispute? She was spot on. She said, we are now at a time in America where there— and I actually weirdly have used this exact language on my show months before the speech.

I—

this literal exact language. She said, she said, We now are in a time where we have two fundamentally incompatible views of the United States. She's right. Yeah, she's completely right. But anyway, back to the point about the intellectual part.

Well, let me— let me then— then please, Dennis, go ahead. I think there's another reason.

Okay, go ahead.

You'll find this of interest. By definition, the left-wing intellectual is, is part of a herd.

Go on.

You must think outside the box to leave the herd. By now, they may be— you may be wrong if you think outside the box, but at the very, very least, to be a conservative intellectual You, you, you, you cannot stay in comfortable intellectual territory.

Yes.

That already gives you an intellectual advantage.

Very well said.

The scientists in history who did anything, without exception, were the ones who were not part of the herd. They are the intellectual giants of science. To be a left-wing intellectual today is to be a sheep. You may be a bright sheep, but you are a sheep. And that rarely goes along with intellectual achievement. That's all. That's another big factor. They think alike. They're scared to leave it. They read only what the others say. Tom Sowell knows everything leftists say. But most leftist intellectuals never heard of Tom Sowell, perhaps the greatest economist or even social thinker, with the exception of maybe he's, maybe he's tied with two others.

Oh, I have one for you. So forget— I know I've referenced it on Dennis and Julie before, and I know we've had the same problem where I didn't know which book, and I think we found it and we cited it. I'll get it for you later. But Jonathan Haidt did this, again, I'm not sure which book, I'm sorry, we read a lot and I just can't remember. He did a study where he put conservatives into a room, or he cited a study where they put conservatives into a room and liberals into a room, and they asked them to answer questions according to what they believed the other side thought. So, you know, there were generic questions about certain policy positions or the views of the United States of America. And it was fascinating the way that liberals answered, or excuse me, the way conservatives answered by mimicking what— oh, okay, sorry, I have to back up. So conservatives, liberals went into a room, they had the same questions, and the conservatives had to answer like, how they thought the liberals would think, and the liberals had to answer of how they thought the conservatives would think. But then they took the test themselves and answered the ways that they would generally think.

And the conservatives were right. Of course.

And the—

I know the results without knowing the test.

Exactly. The conservatives totally got what the liberals would think.

That's exactly—

but the liberals completely misrepresented what the conservatives would think.

That's right.

Like, the liberals were like, Yeah, you know, like, I want to— what is it like? It's like hilarious. It's like, I want a woman to get to not have an abortion because like women need to— women can't make— women aren't mentally competent to make decisions about their body without a man. And I'm like, oh, right, because that's what I want to control women. That's right. That's what animates the pro-life position, that women, you know, need their man. And like, it's— it was so— it was so backwards. And that is a point.

I didn't know Jonathan Haidt did that. Okay.

I really—

he is one of the few centrists living today.

I really don't want to get this wrong. I've read so many of his books. He either conducted the study or—

that doesn't matter. Yeah.

Okay.

Either way, I don't want to get it wrong. Find it for me.

The study.

I want to announce it on my radio show.

Fascinating. And it proves the point of the, of the, of the sheep. Of the sheep.

Yes. Because you, you know, we know what they know, but they don't know what we know. And that's the biggest reason they stay left wing.

But, but here's the deal. I want to root it in, in, in practical things because the conservative thing is a big part of it. We endeavor to conserve. They mostly endeavor to progress. If we endeavor to conserve, we're going to be reading and of figuring out more of what it is that we want to conserve. So we're already reading more. The sheep mentality is also excellent. And here's another practical, I guess, difference that leads to the intellectual, I believe, fortitude of the right as compared to the left. We endeavor, for instance, to preserve freedom of speech. It has not always been this case, but over the past 20 to 30 years, the left in this country wants to put restrictions on freedom of speech. This is a real thing. First of all, they put cultural restrictions on it by stigmatizing any opinion which differs from them. But literally, practically, according to a Harvard-Harris poll of people in my generation, what is it, like 48% of my generation wants to pass laws banning hate speech. We see in a place like Michigan, there was a bill that was proposed. I'm not sure if it became law where they wanted to fine people $10,000 for not using the right pronouns. Okay. So when I say that the left is anti-freedom of speech, I really mean it because it's true. And there is legislative evidence, cultural evidence that the left in this country is anti-freedom of speech. And so think about it. We want to preserve, conserve freedom of speech. And so if If we are in the, and again, I'm not crazy about this them versus us, but if we conservatives are in this environment where we want to preserve freedom of speech, we practice it in our everyday lives. At Shabbat, I mean, Shabbat is like a cultural forum. It's like an intellectual forum where we all go around and we're talking about Christianity, we're talking about Judaism, we're talking about Trump, we're talking about Kamala. And Michael is always kind of the moderator and he's pushing and probing and he's going, but are we being fair to Kamala? You know, it's— we practice what we preach. We practice freedom of speech in our cultural lives, in our social lives. So no wonder, in my opinion, the right is more intellectually formidable than the left, because the very policy thing that we endeavor to conserve, freedom of speech, we practice, which leads to more ideas. On the left, they want to censor it, so they're not practicing it.

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They're not, they're not exchanging ideas with the same, in the same circulation as we are.

Well, they're just not. There are any number of proofs, so let me offer one personal one. So when Charlie Kirk and I spoke at Arizona State University about a year and a half ago, We spoke— they're divided into colleges, so there's an honors college at ASU.

By the way, what does that mean, an honors college?

Well, you, you— I think Yale has that too, like separate little colleges, so to speak, within the Yale University system. I don't know exactly, but it's a division of the university that is its own college as part of the university. So that college invited us to speak there, and we did. And there were, I think there are 42 professors at this college, the, at this honors college whose name I forget, and 37 or so wrote an open letter condemning the college and ASU for inviting Charlie and me because we're, we're racist and bigots and, and all these other these, all these other things. They probably never read one page of what I've written in my life.

Ridiculous.

But anyway, it is what it is. But the point I want to make is I have publicly— I went to the Arizona State Senate.

You gave an excellent address.

Oh, yes. People should watch that. I was impassioned. People should, should watch that just through Dennis Prager, Arizona Senate. And I noted there and on my show, I invite any of these or all of them to come on my radio show. I will give you an audience of millions. Okay. Not, not my audience of a few hundred, what, 500, whatever there were at Arizona State. Millions. You can come on, say whatever you like. And of course, not one of them responded. I will come back to ASU. I will debate any one or any 20 of you. Never a response. They don't debate. They know deep down they don't stand a chance against a conservative intellectual. They don't. And I wonder if in the recesses of their conscience, or their consciousness, they know that they cannot handle a conservative influence.

What else would it be?

They would think we're not worth it.

We're right. We're not worth it. We're 50% of the country.

Well, we're not.

Yes, we're not worth it.

I know. Well, that's a great point, but we're not worth it because we're just intellectual lightweights. Why would they show? Yeah, but why don't— why don't they want to demonstrate that I'm an intellectual lightweight?

Exactly.

I mean, PragerU alone, just to bring down PragerU alone. Debate me. Show what an intellectual shallow guy I am. And then people will stop going to PragerU. That will be amazing. You'll be a hero on the left.

Well, I'll tell you something. One of the things in my— that those few weeks when I became totally obsessed with conservatism and because it was— I always say it was like you were in a dark room and the light switch was turned on. It was, it was, it was so, it was incredible. It was like, wait, what? The police aren't out killing 3,000 Black people a year?

Yeah. What is the number?

12. In 2019 it was 12.

Right.

Which is horrible. Every, every, you know, or, but also these, these situations, people get into shootouts. I mean, not every 12 that was killed unarmed.

This was unarmed Black, unarmed Black. But by the way, an unarmed Black can be a lethal threat. I just want people to understand it's not like they were standing on the street corner and got shot for being Black.

Exactly. Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. But, you know, it was so— it was so incredible. God, see, we're so relaxed on Dennis and Julie. Forgive me. What were you— what were you just saying?

That about why they won't debate us, about thinking that we're shallow.

Thank you. So during Prager, During my summer of, you know, awakening, as I call it, really. And people, people have said to me, that's like a weird term to use. I'm like, no, it's not.

What's a weird term?

Awakening. My friends would say it sounds like a religious— I'm like, it was an awakening. Um, well, ask them.

Forgive me, just ask them, if somebody went from right to left, what would you call that?

Boom. That's a really good question. I actually will take that. Yes, that's very good. So So one of the ways I knew PragerU was the real deal was I watched a debunk PragerU video. I did. I watched 35 minutes. I actually was walking and listening to it.

Do you remember which?

No, I can't remember. Like, they're all debunked and they're 35 minutes debunking and specifically the video on prison. So we can probably find it. There's a PragerU video on incarceration.

Yes.

And, you know, and then there was like 35-minute video why PragerU was wrong and the guy was an idiot.

That's right.

That's how I knew PragerU was— I went, you know what, I'm going to give— I am going to give people the opportunity to prove me wrong. And then they proved that I was actually right. They did. But, you know, it's—

Oh, so I have a great anecdote for you. This I know I never told you. I'm not sure I even have ever said this publicly. And I've said almost everything publicly. This will touch you because it's a very personal story and yet a very macro story. So you have to understand, I began broadcasting at the age of 34. It's pretty early. I mean, serious broadcasting.

Super early.

Yeah, especially at that time. This was not podcasting. This was broadcasting.

Interesting.

Yeah. So the first show I was given was an exceedingly popular one in LA on ABC Radio, KABC, called Religion on the Line. And I was the— I was total— it was a gift from God. So I was the moderator every week for 2 hours and no commercials. It was 2 hours commercial, that's like 3 hours.

No commercials.

No commercials. They, they— in those days you had to give up 2 hours a week to public broadcasting, so to speak. So that was the show. So I had a priest, minister, rabbi, different ones each week, Catholic, Protestant.

And you were the moderator.

And I was the moderator. And so after about 3 years, maybe 4, I decided I don't want only a Protestant, Catholic, and Jew. I want a Muslim, I want a Mormon, I want a Buddhist, I want a Hindu. I had every religion on earth except Jehovah's Witnesses. They didn't want to come on. And I'm not saying that critically. I'm just—

I understand.

I just want to be intellectually honest. I had everybody. I even broadened it to atheists. If it is about religion, we need to have atheists. And I want the best atheists on the show. So this is really— I got the chills because I'm proud of myself all those years ago. I've— so you, you, uh, folks, uh, forgive me, this is a— I'm having a Julie moment because you will so relate to this. I've always taken the risk. I've always taken risks to develop. Yes. So The first time I conducted an orchestra, I was so nervous, and I never get nervous, that I dripped sweat onto the score.

Oh, that's so cute.

I remember seeing the score getting wet like it was raining outside. Yeah, Mozart's Overture to The Marriage of Figaro. I remember everything about it. Okay, so I've always taken risks because I'm not a professional musician. I'm an advanced amateur. Okay, so I decided after having atheists a few times, it was an offer was made to me. Will— are you willing, Dennis, to have the head or the man who wrote the— what is it? The Humanist Manifesto. That's it. I remember the name. This got huge attention. When did I start? In the '80s. This got huge attention in the '80s. It's called— people should look it up— The Humanist Manifesto, where irreligious people came out with, in effect, their credo, right? This is what we believe. You don't need God. You don't need religion.

I would love to read that.

It's called The Humanist Manifesto.

Do a D&J or something.

Or do your own. Yes. So Dennis, we can— we'll fly in the guy who wrote it.

No way.

I even remember from where. Buffalo, New York.

Did they?

Yes.

No.

So wait. So yes, they did. So I remember saying to myself, it's very rare, but I— on occasion this has happened. And you'll find this very touching. And I thought, what if he has better arguments? I actually thought about that.

Of course.

I did not think it was a slam dunk that I would prevail in, and it wasn't going to be a drag-out argument, but we would be respectfully debating. Again, the internationally acclaimed professor who authored the Humanist Manifesto, so basically the leading not just atheist, atheist thinker, ethical thinker in the world, and I could have him on my show, and I go, okay, Dennis, if you can't answer his challenges, you may be wrong. I said it to myself, I rather be wrong and go back to the drawing board than continue to be wrong. I know you relate totally, so That's why I said it's a Julie moment for me. Anyway, to make a long story short, at about halfway into the evening, I thought, this guy's arguments are no better than the arguments I had in high school with kids who thought you didn't need God for ethics. There wasn't one— I didn't hear one new thing. And so basically it verified for me that all my arguments were not only valid, but I had— I now tested them on the finest of the fine. It's not just that they were the usual pablum, which is what they are. It's that I, I realized There's— there isn't— there is nothing more. What is that famous phrase? Is that all there is? I remember thinking, is that all there is to ethical humanism?

It actually— I feel sad, I really do, as you're telling me this story. I mean, I have so many responses, but I feel so sad because it really is such a diminished way of life. And I say this with no judgment, there, it's very hard to believe in God. We talked about this either the other Dennis and Julia are off there, I can't remember, but I love that the, the name Israel means to struggle with God because of course if someone, you know, I know, and you do too, I mean, look at, you know, I don't want to say who, but you know, you've had friends whose sons have overdosed, overdosed, you know, my sister's severely autistic, horrible things happen in life. It's very hard to believe in God. But I'm sad hearing this for this individual because it is a diminished way of life. And I think what's interesting for you, Dennis, is I know you so well, and when you go to debate someone, it's not that you want to best them. You really believe, as I do, that this is the truth. This is the way to— this is— God is the truth. Believing in God elevates you. It elevates the human experience. And of course, we want to be respectful respectful to the people who don't believe that, or people with whom we disagree, but we, at the risk of sounding supercilious, we feel so sad and sorry for them. I do. I think they consign themselves to a diminished life.

I agree with you, but again, I want to make clear, the issue was not quality of life. The issue was, can you make an ethical world, can you even have ethical standards if that's That's what the debate was about. That was what it was about, not whether there is a God.

I see. Okay, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, because that's why it's the humanist— I said the guy was the greatest intellectual ethical thinker.

Got it.

An atheist ethical thinker. Oh, I, I, I, I debate God. I debated God's existence with Christopher Hitchens, whom I had great respect for, by the way. Uh, he was a morally serious man. But oh, so here's a great— another great anecdote for you. So listen to this. So I have given the following argument on the air. I have— that's the beauty of a talk show. I have sharpened my intellect with listeners for 40 years. I'm sort of— I'm sort of a cheat. I have an advantage. I got none of these people.

I view myself the same way.

You should.

With the emails we get, it's incredible.

That's right. So I, for people who think God is, or real, and religion are completely irrelevant to ethics, okay, I always ask this question. You imagine you, you've rented a car in another city. You've never been to the city. You've gotten lost. You're in a bad neighborhood, or just lost. It's the middle of the night, doesn't matter what neighborhood. Neighborhood, you see 10 men, young men, walking toward you. Would you or would you not be relieved to learn that they had just come from a Bible class?

I love this.

You never heard that one?

I've never heard it.

Isn't it great?

That is so, so good.

I came up—

it is brilliant.

Yes, I agree.

You know what's great? I'm sorry, okay, Juliet from Virginia is gonna have to deal with it. Yeah, but you are excellent because you make religious arguments that are grounded in the practical. And I say this with deep respect for religious people. But Jesus's love doesn't work the same way that—

right.

When burly guys are approaching you, would you be relieved that they came? That is a great way to argue. Go on.

So I get— I asked— I had Christopher Hitchens on my show.

Oh, boy.

The most articulate, anti-religious thinker of his time.

Yeah.

And to his credit, he would come on. He was a serious— he was not a leftist. He was a great guy. He was left of center, but—

I admire him greatly.

Oh yeah, you should. So he died prematurely because he smoked cigarettes too much, which is— but not all cigarette smokers die, but it's very sad. It happened. So I asked him that question and he It's an unanswerable question. The question is perfect. The question is not good, the question is perfect. 'Cause if you're at all honest, of course you are thrilled to learn they came from a Bible class. So by the way, let me give you the standard answers. I don't know if it was Hitchens' answer, but when callers have called me, well, I would be very relieved to know that they came from a physics class. I go, yes, but let me just ask you, you. How many physics classes are there in the, in bad neighborhoods versus religious or Bible classes?

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Okay, we have tens of thousands of Bible classes and maybe two, maybe two, probably zero physics classes. I would be relieved also to know that they had just come from a physics class. I fully admit it, but they're not— they're not there. So you would be relieved to know that they came from a Bible class. All right, now here, here is the fascinating punchline. Christopher Hitchens, years later, writes his autobiography, and in it he tells the story of being on my show.

No way!

Yes.

Wow, I didn't know that. And I've ordered a book called The Quotable Hitchens: A to Z, Alcohol to Zionism, and it has his best quotes over many publications.

Right, well, it won't have this, but it is. I am in his autobiography. But the reason I'm telling you is this is what he did. So he said, so I was on Dennis Prager's radio show and he asked me this question: would you or would you not be relieved to know that these 10 men just came from prayer? And he said, well, the truth is, hey, if I were a Jew in a Muslim place, I wouldn't be relieved. Believed. If I were a Catholic during the Northern Ireland Civil War and they had just come from a Protestant service, or a Protestant and they came from a Catholic service.

Oh, interesting.

Right. So that was his—

Wow.

Yeah, but he changed my question.

Yeah, that's right.

I purposely didn't say prayer. I said Bible to make it Judeo-Christian. He changed it. I don't believe that deceptively, of course, but in his mind Fascinating. Isn't that fascinating?

Totally. Because it does change it. You're— it does. No, I agree. Coming from a Bible class means that it's Jewish or Christian.

That's what it means. Yes.

And that's an uncomfortable reality these days to acknowledge.

Yes, that is right.

Comfortable reality. But boy, that's everything.

It is.

It is. But, but wow, that's it. That's so interesting. And it's interesting that in, as you say, in his mind, he changed it. Why do you think in his mind he changed it?

Because if he— you have two choices. If you are one who believes religion is unnecessary to ethics, you either change your mind because the question is so powerful, or you change the question. And so to live with his continued belief religion is irrelevant to ethics, He had to change the question.

And by the way, I know this from you. This is the reason Dennis made me fall in love with the Torah, is because of the way he explains it. And the Torah is a— I call it a divine life manual. Yeah, it's a divine manual on human nature. And Adam— this is what's so cool. People have to read it. It's fascinating. When God asks Adam why he ate of the forbidden tree, he misrepresents what the devil or the serpent told him.

Yes, he misrepresents it to the serpent, I believe it is. But you're right, he misrepresents it.

I'm looking for Genesis.

Yes, I know what the—

He took it from the serpent.

No, no, I know what the misrepresentation is. Representation is. The misrepresentation is he said God said not to touch it, but God did not say not to touch it.

He said do not eat of it.

Yes.

Which is in itself fascinating. And we could talk about— but human beings, this is interesting because I want to— welcome to Dennis and Julie. We're comparing Christopher Hitchens to Adam, everyone. But, but we're all Adam. We're all, we're all Adam. So Christopher Hitchens misrepresented what you said. And Adam misrepresented what God told him. And this is a human proclivity that we do. We, we— well, I guess it's different in, in Adam's case. Adam was— why do you think Adam misrepresented what God said?

To, to overstate and therefore make it sound silly.

Hmm. So then why do you think Christopher Hitchens—

because I said if Christopher Hitchens repeated exactly what I had asked him, there is no anti-religious. The only anti-religious answer is, well, I'd be relieved if they came from a physics class. But that— it's enough.

So they were both trying to confirm their worldview.

Yes. But let me, by the way, let me just say about the physics class answer. So my usual answer is, yeah, yeah, but there are no physics class people. 10 young men walking to you at midnight didn't come from physics class. Okay, but I have another answer. Okay, so you acknowledge that the study of physics and the study of religion are equally likely to make you ethical.

Go on, why? I agree.

No, because their very answer is, well, what if they came from a physics class? So it would have the same positive impact upon their behavior.

Right. And that's intellectually shallow or—

All right, fine. Well, you're right, because how is it?

Yes, because it—

but it doesn't matter that there is no answer to my question. And for all the people listening and watching this broadcast, if you have an answer that is better than the two that I get, well, there's only one, I'm sorry— that, you know, well, it would be great if they came from a physics class, that I would like to hear it. And by the way, if it's effective, I will so note. Incidentally, there's a side matter that you'll find of interest. And it is one— look, I don't lose sleep over it, but I've had to make peace with. So to the extent that people will still read Christopher Hitchens' autobiography in the future, they will think that I asked an easily refuted question because he misrepresented my question.

But so that's why I'm bringing up the Adam thing because, and you made a side comment which I think is really important. You said, I don't believe that Christopher Hitchens purposefully misrepresented What, what?

Right. I don't believe—

I don't either.

Right.

Um, but nevertheless, someone— it's, it's so— God, life is so interesting. Like, because somebody who's reading Christopher Hitchens' book, who let's say is not religious, is going to view that as confirmation.

Yeah, that they're right.

That they're right.

Of course. It's because he's depressing.

Totally.

Yes.

Perhaps like, in a—

no, I represented— I chose Bible class Very carefully. Yes.

And so here— but then this is what's fascinating, and I don't want to get down this whole path of can we blame people for their world, you know, if— but in a way it's worth considering because think about it. If you're someone who is reading Christopher Hitchens' book and he writes that and he didn't mean to, you're going to have a different— your worldview is going to get more confirmed through that mistake.

That's right.

And it's not that we shouldn't blame people for what they think, because of course we should. But nevertheless, it is important to note that clarity and accuracy is of the utmost importance, not only for ourselves but for others. And I try to work on this so much. I mean, just on a daily basis, I, I will— I, I think clarity is so important and honesty is so important that sometimes I now go a little overboard with, for instance, last night I said I had to drop off some dry cleaning someplace, and then I was meeting a friend, and I also went to the grocery store to get a bottle of wine. And I was a little late, and I said the reason that I was late is because I was dropping off dry cleaning. And then I said, actually, that's not true, because the reason that I was late was I dropped off the dry cleaning and then I went to get this bottle of wine. And my friend's probably looking at me like, who cares? But I know I sound nuts, But this is how things like the Christopher Hitchens thing happen, because it actually was not the dry cleaning that made me late. It was getting the wine. Now, you may think, so what? And it is a so what in that situation. But it matters that because if I had just dropped off the dry cleaning, gone to my friend, I would have been on time.

You know, you know who gets the award? We're both like that. There's someone who runs circles around all of us.

Who?

My wife, Sue.

She does.

Oh, I'll give an example. So, Sue, I edit every— people have no idea. One of the, one of the biggest reasons the 5-minute videos are so terrific is Sue. Well, no, is the process it goes through. It goes through Alan, who's terrific. It goes through me. Me, whether you think I'm terrific or not. And then it goes through Sue. Now, usually after I'm done rewriting what Alan rewrote, it's very rarely— I mean, this is not a discredit to these brilliant people who do it. They don't write 5-minute videos for a living, so they can't be expected expected to do it as well as we do. We base it based on what they write, but then we make it clearer and clearer and clearer and shorter and shorter and shorter. It should be between 750 and 800 words to fit 5 minutes. So we had 2 videos, um, related to Roe v. Wade that we're putting out to explain it. We don't It's not even a big position. We try to just teach what happened, like every one of our president series. Sue has taken, I would say, on, on between the two of these 5-minute videos, 6 hours.

Oh, I'm sure. I have no doubt. Normally, no doubt about that.

It's a half hour. I do. I do more of the heavy lifting, but where there is facts that have to be related accurately. And she's a lawyer. It's her commitment to— we— this is not fully true. She will actually then read the whole verdict as given by one of the judges to see, did we take the quote out of context? But that's the only way to live a life. That— because you and I and she, obviously, and Alan— truth is everything. Truth is everything. It kills me. I wrote a piece for UCLA. You know, I used to be published by liberal sources.

Dennis, you were published in the LA Times.

I can't believe that. Regularly. Do you know what I've discovered? I discovered— this will blow your mind— there was a very big piece about me in the LA Times, I think in 1991, and it was nothing any conservative has ever written about me was as praiseworthy, as praise-filled, as the article about me, Dennis Prager, the talk show host. Host who is so above so many others. He's intellectually honest. He wants to hear every side. It's— I couldn't believe what I was reading. LA Times. The deterioration of America, which is the— it is the deterioration of America is the same thing as the deterioration of liberalism. That liberals became leftists is the reason America, America may have not have a future. That in a nutshell. And you can see it in the, in the L.A. Times. So where, where we would be, I would be just regularly published there.

It's crazy because I get the L.A. Times delivered to my apartment.

Oh, it's a cesspool. It is. I can't believe you— you—

I'm not being unkind.

Pay to get it?

Well, you know what? I stopped my New York Times subscription, A, because it's absurdly expensive. I was paying physical hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year on it. I can't afford it. But, but the physical copies are— I mean, you have— I'm sure you have.

Yeah, we got them both.

Well, we, we both get— sometimes I'll— we'll bring in our newspapers and Dennis will go, is that my Wall Street Journal or yours? But yeah, the, the LA Times is a, is a complete Dennis Prager's cesspool.

Well, that's the one who wrote that Larry Elder is the blackface white supremacist.

But the reporting is also— I'm sorry, it's horrible. The reporting is horrible. But I want to go back to this because it is our human nature to misrepresent things. We don't even— this is your whole thing about motives when we talk about thoughts versus One of your lines is, we don't always know our own motives, our own motives, let alone the next guy's, let alone the next guy's. So we have to judge people based on behavior. This is, this is a, this is an excellent point, but I don't want it to happen to me a third time this episode. But you know what, again, it really is.

I know you're relaxed.

I am so relaxed.

You just think you and I are having a talk, and we are. I know.

I I mean, this is the same thing.

So while you're thinking of it, I want to finish the point that I made when I was talking about what I was printed in the UCLA magazine. I was saying where liberals would publish me and my article was Lies Are the Root of Evil.

Yes. Yes.

More than any other single thing.

Yes. It is our human nature, I have it, to misrepresent what people say. We may not even know that we're doing it, just as we don't always know our own motives. We don't always— we're not always aware that we do it, but to the best of our ability, and I have not always been good at this in my life, but I am endeavoring to do much better, we should really, really try to be precise. Because when we're precise with ourselves, we're precise with others. And by the way, it makes people more precise with us. I notice when I'm debating someone and I'll clarify their point for them, or really in a helpful way, even if I disagree with their point, I'm doing them a service by clarifying their point. And then they're more likely to clarify my point and represent what I said accurately. I feel like life is just a big feedback loop. You know, and clarity and truth-seeking, it's not just something that we do for others. Ultimately, it benefits ourselves. Yeah, well, but we do also do it for others.

I'll give you a theological point on that, that it's what we— it comes back to ourself. So here's another one you may not have heard me say. The Hebrew word The word to pray is a reflexive verb. You know what a reflexive verb is?

Yeah, but explain it.

Okay, of course I'll explain it. I was just curious if you knew.

Yes, yes.

We don't have reflexive verbs in English, but virtually every language that I know of, I mean Russian, Hebrew, Spanish, French, they all have reflexive verbs. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. Nutrition First. Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900, to get started, or online at myphdweightloss.com, myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation Call today, 864-644-1900. Reflexive verbs. So for example, if you say I wash my hands, in French you say— you use a reflexive verb. So you say I wash— I wash myself the hands. Get it? I wash myself the hands. I don't wash the hands, I wash myself the hands. Yeah, so, uh, it's odd that the Hebrew word to pray is reflexive because aren't you praying to God? You're not praying to yourself, but you, you are. And do you know what it literally means? It's the word is lehitpalel. And do you know what it literally means? To examine oneself.

Oh my God, that's— that just made my whole day. I knew it That just made my whole day. That is so— that is it. That's exactly what it is.

That's what it should be. Let's put it that way.

I feel like I can't say anything after that point. That's such a good point to end on. That is how it should be. You know, I guess I will end with something. So I've been, you know, more religious lately, or taking— really, really making religion the centerpiece of my life because I was, you know, graduating from college, starting this job. You know, I've been so focused on my job, and obviously I'm still focused on my job, but when you make God the center of your life, almost everything branches out from that. Your job is affected, your friendships are affected, your, your romantic relationships, everything. So I've been really trying to make God the centerpiece. And a few months ago, I was kind of starting this process of really making it the centerpiece, and I went to church church. And I saw my monsignor, or my priest, the man who baptized me. And I was really sad about something. There were these girls who I went to high school with who I thought I was friends with. And I thought they— I knew they were really left. And I knew they disagreed with my— or I figured that they disagreed with my politics. But I thought they would know from knowing me for so many years what good of a person I am. I was always there for them. I'm there for everyone in my life. Everyone. And I thought even if they disagreed with my politics, that they'd still affirm my goodness. They went on my Instagram and commented these mean, mean things that I'm evil, I'm disgusting, get well soon. It was just catty. And I don't care, I brush it off. But I was just sad on a, on a friendship level. And so I went to church and I talked to my Monsignor, and you know what he said to me? He said, pray for them. And at that point, I didn't get why. I get it now, but at that point, I was still kind of confused. And I said, why? And you know what his answer was? For what it will do for you. That was his answer. It wasn't about them, even though I'm praying for them, even though of course I genuinely was praying for them. But it did something for me. And I love what you just said about prayer, that it means to examine yourself. Yeah, because when I was praying for them, what I was really doing was processing why that hurt me, if it should hurt me, and how I should deal with situations like that going forward. On that note.

So I'll end my part anyway with something we said earlier on in the discussion that I know— I don't believe, I don't think, I don't opine— I know that conservatism is far are intellectually deeper than leftism. Liberalism is a mixed bag and it has some depth and some shallow, that's fine. And not all conservatives are deep, I'm not saying that either. But there's no comparison. And all I would very much like to know, is there a left-wing equivalent to Dennis and Julie? I'm not asking, this is not a boast, it is a compliment. A sincere question. Is there an intellectual— is there an equivalently intellectually serious dialogue like this?

I mean, there probably is an equivalent intellectually serious dialogue. However, I believe we match that in terms of intellectually serious and interesting, and we have something even better. We have an age difference, we have a gender difference, and it's so weird because I kind of don't want to say we have a religious difference, but I think we have— maybe, I don't know, we actually have to explore that. I don't know if we have a religious difference.

If we do, if you're Catholic, at least for now, and maybe forever, and obviously a Jew, but we won't have— we will have officially a religious difference.

That's right.

But we, we won't have a religious difference. We will have a specific religion difference, but not a religious difference.

That's a very good distinction.

Yeah, no, and I know you know it.

I mean, we talked about it the other day.

Yes, because we're both ethical monotheists. We, we, anyway, that's, that's a good subject for another time.

Oh, and we'll do it.

We'll definitely do it. No, I, I try to follow. When I listen to left-wing intellectuals, it is about racism and sexism and homophobia. I mean, their preoccupations with— but none of it is deep. It's on an intellectual level, but I don't— by the way, I'm not happy about this. I wish it were not the case.

Sad. It is sad.

That's why I'm asking. I would like— I would be interested. Maybe some listeners know, you know what, people who discuss the great issues of life and are leftist, not liberal. Again, I'm saying leftist. I believe liberals can have this. But I would like— I would like— I would tune in and see. And by the way, if they exist, we should invite them to join us once.

Of course.

Yeah.

Especially Shabbat.

Oh, well, no, well, they may not live in LA. No, I know. But I mean, join us on one of these.

Yes.

Say, folks, there's another Dennis and Julie out there. Yeah. I mean, for all I know, it could be Dennis and Jim or it could be Julie and, you know, and Madison. But, but whatever it might be, it—

See, but here's the thing. A lot of people have podcasts these days. And we're in an information economy. You know, it used to be that people worked with their hands, and then with that, you know, we're in an information economy. So, but I truly believe this, this podcast is, is very different. Most people have solo podcasts. A lot of people have, uh, double podcasts, but they're both women, or they're both of the same age, or they're both of the same religion. There's not— there's truly, even Even in the pod, the— with all the podcasts I have seen, and I have seen political, nonpolitical. I mean, my Real Housewives, they all have podcasts. I think I have a pretty good—

do.

Yes. Everybody and their mother has a podcast. Everybody does. That doesn't mean they're all good, but it's— everybody does. This is truly different. And I swear to God, I'm not just saying it because I'm a host alone. Take anything away that we talk about. The fact that you're 76 years old, I'm 24 years old. You're a man. I'm a woman. You're a Jew. I'm a Catholic. This is— excuse me, this is so different. There's quite literally no other podcast that has this. I don't know of any other podcast that has— please tell us— that has an age difference as massive as ours.

That's true.

Is there any podcast with more of like a decade or two age difference? We have a 50-year—

yeah, 50. All right, 50 basically.

Yes. And Dennis is like, wait a minute, it depends when your birthday is.

It's really 51. Oh, but it doesn't matter. 50 is quite sufficient.

It is.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a half—

anything over 30 is—

or as I said on GB News, we were on GB News, remember, at the art conference, and I said, this podcast is truly unique, male, female, and then I go, and we We have over a century and a half of age difference. And Dennis cut me off. I went, wait a minute, because I misspoke.

You mean half a century?

Over half a century.

That is interesting. I don't know. I wonder if there is another, but I don't, I don't think there is.

You could have a podcast with a young boy, you know, like a 24-year-old conservative boy.

Right.

But everything is unique.

Everything is different.

Everything is different. So thank you, thank you for doing this with me.

Well, there is, um, do you know, I'll, so I'll give a second ending.

More like a fifth ending.

Or a fifth ending. You'll, this you'll find fascinating. So during August I have, uh, it's fundraising month on my show for PragerU.

For your birthday.

Because it's my birthday. Yeah. And, and so almost every day I have a young Prager Force member on, basically, you know, high school and college kids, 25,000 of them around the world. By the way, everyone is so impressive that it gives— listeners love it because it gives them hope for the future. These kids are bright, happy, Respectful. It's really— I'm taken aback. I had a 14-year-old boy. He is an Israeli with one parent American, so he speaks perfect English. And he's in Prager Force and lives in Israel. He's Israeli, he lives in Israel. And 14, it was the youngest I've ever had. I didn't even know Prager Force had 14-year-olds. And in the course of his speaking, I thought— Bobby, you'll get a kick out of this— I thought, oh my God, a young Julie. And I'm thinking, Julie's pretty damn young, but this guy's 10 years younger than Julie.

I know.

So, but what I— this is what I wanted to say. The kid had wisdom. It is very important that people understand that it is a myth that old people are wise. It's a myth.

Oh my God, it is a myth.

It's a total myth. There are as many old fools as young fools. In fact, there's a specific idiocy among older people because they have lived so much. When you're 23 and you're a fool, you have an excuse. When you are 73 and you're a fool, you have no excuse. If you still believe in, in the nonsense you were taught as a kid, yep, then you, you are a non-thinking sheep. Whereas the 23-year-old, okay, there's a chance, and I can't blame him or her. This kid had so much wisdom at 14. I wrote a piece, it's on the internet, and I wrote it about a year ago, one of my columns. I believe, looking back, that when in 8th grade, I and most of my fellow students had more wisdom more wisdom than almost any professor at Harvard. And there's—

I totally agree with you.

But there's a reason we were taught wisdom. We were at a religious Jewish school. It could have been a religious Christian school, it doesn't matter.

You talked about aphorisms. It was amazing to me when you talked about—

Oh, I grew up on aphorisms.

Give me an example.

Oh my God. Well, I mean, one that people find fascinating, and this is, these are all from the Talmud. The, well, so who is the strong man? The one who conquers his own will. Who is the rich man? The one who is content with what he has. The easily embarrassed does not learn. That changed my life. That's why I was prepared to make mistakes in foreign languages. Because that's the best way to learn a language, is to be willing to make mistakes. They're not going to laugh at you. They, they admire you.

See, this is, this is proving Dennis's point. At 8 years old, I literally had more wisdom than most professors at Harvard. It's true.

This 14-year-old was a living example of it. He's homeschooled in Israel.

How cool. Oh my gosh. You know what? I want to talk with him.

You should.

It's such a joy. It's such a joy. This—

I just want to I'll tell you his name. I want to talk to him.

Oh my God, what if we did like a Dennis and Julie meetup sometime somewhere and we could invite— yeah, all the listeners. Please don't be creepy. Please don't make us regret it if we ever do that. It's not a concern. It's not a concern. We have great—

we don't attract jerks.

No. All right, all right. Speaking of attracting jerks, you know, actually, I have a— I have a new nickname for Sean. Sean? Young Fool.

It's beautiful.

You said there are old fools and there are young fools.

Beautiful.

I think Sean's a young— well, he's approaching middle-aged fool, spelled Y-U-N-G. Young Fool, that's his rap name. You can reach me at julie@julie-hirtman.com. I didn't even see what he did. He probably flipped the bird. I love hearing from you, as you know, how we started the episode. And you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Julie R. Hartman. You can follow Dennis on Instagram at The Dennis Prager. Oh, and at Dennis— it's every time, it's hilarious. I love how they made it The Dennis Prager. It's pretty cool that you got a the in front, isn't it?

The real— don't they do that with, uh, real Dennis Prager or real?

Yeah, that's kind of a joke now because Donald Trump did it first. He was like real Donald Trump.

Yeah.

Anyway, what do I say now? Shalom, everybody. We loved being with you.

See you next week.

Take care.

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