Building Good

Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at PragerStore.com.

Hello everyone, and welcome to Dennis and Julie. Today we have someone sitting in for Dennis who is not Dennis, but someone who's been working with Dennis for nearly 20 years. Sean McConnell, everyone. Welcome on to Dennis and Julie. Those of you who listen to Timeless have seen Triple G, as the Dennis Prager Show listeners know him, Misinformation, as the Timeless listeners know him. And we thought that instead of going back and playing old clips, as we've done for the past two Dennis and Julies, that we would bring on Seanzy and talk about our dear Dennis. So welcome to the show.

Let's call this Not Dennis and Julie.

Not Dennis, but Julie. Well, Dennis and Julie were reunited last night. I went to the hospital where Dennis is, and I had a pretty lengthy visit with him. I was there for 8 hours because I've missed him. I've missed him so much. And even as the music was just coming on now, I felt— I feel a heaviness in my heart because He's my best friend. He's my coworker. He's my co-host. And for the past 2 weeks, I haven't seen him. I haven't talked to him. I haven't listened to him. And I miss him so much. And it's, you know, yesterday in the hospital, the nurse walked in and asked me for my name and asked me who I was. And it was funny because Dennis and I kind of both looked at each other like, how would we describe me? It felt not quite right to say a friend. Obviously, I'm not blood family or, you know, and co-host feels a little weird, right? Maybe I should say protégé. I don't know. But I was able to spend some time with him yesterday in the hospital, as I had mentioned. And I want to tell you the information that we have. And I know that so many of you are asking for and hoping for information. And I know that both of us can very much relate to that sentiment because all we all want is information. But this is a very, very slow climb. Time, he suffered a very, very serious back injury. And this is just going to be weeks, months, honestly, for him to recuperate and for his body to heal. And so if we're not telling you information, it's not because we're withholding it. We don't have information. But what I will say is that Dennis is 100% mentally there. 100%. He even said it to me, you know, and, and with his limited ability to communicate, he mouths words. He is 100% there. And I had conversations with him and he was keeping up with everything. And let me tell you, over those hours that I spent with him in the hospital, the thing that I saw that meant the most to him, that gave him a glimmer of light and hope in his eyes, was when I read messages from you. I went on Dennis and Julie shows and I read the comments, I read the emails and my email address, and I joked with him. I said, Dennis, what's my email address? What's the Instagram and Twitter? And he rolled his eyes and smiled. But I read aloud to him some of the things that you wrote and he would mouth, wow, afterwards. Or someone wrote in and said that basically Dennis is the reason why she has her kids and husband. That she kicked off her old habits and took her life seriously because of Dennis. And it's so cute. Dennis looks at me and he goes, "Really?" And he's so touched. So please do continue writing in. Your thoughts and your prayers mean so much. And especially if you would care to write in about the specific ways that Dennis has influenced you, because right now, and he is someone who knows all too well the importance of happiness and remaining optimistic, he needs that. He needs to remember how many people he's influenced how many people, God willing, he can continue to influence. And so your messages give him a will to go forward. How are you doing, Sean?

Oh, I, it runs the gamut. I, I go from optimism to sadness to, uh, missing, to praying, to, uh, I don't know. It's, it's hard to explain. I have tons of people coming at me wanting information. I don't have information. I too want information and misinformation. We've learned that this is going to be a long haul and there is no new information coming quickly. Um, like you said, it's a very serious injury. There are signs of optimism and hope. We— I am And I'm sure most of you are completely grateful that Dennis is in there. Yeah, that's step number one right now, getting his body to heal so that he can do the work to recover and get back to what he loves doing. When you told me last night that he said he misses his life.

Yeah.

And we know this from working with him and being with him. He never once was not grateful for the life that he lived.

Well, I said that to him.

You guys have talked about it. He felt lucky to have the life and blessed to have the life and grateful for that life. And I can only imagine how tough it is for him to be in there and to not be able to express his thoughts in a fashion that he wants to. He's a man of many words, and I can't even imagine what he's going through. I think that's what makes me sad is thinking about him wanting to have his life to be able— he, he, he relished in being free. Yeah, just having a cigar, listening to the music he wants to, driving like a maniac. I don't know if you've ever driven with this guy, but I have been cut off by Dennis Prager on the freeway.

I've driven with him. He's a speed demon, that guy.

He is something else.

He's a speed demon. But you know, he, he's, he's 100% mentally there, and his spirit is there. He, he And you know him. I mean, he always talked about on Dennis and Julie and otherwise dignity and, and shirking any kind of sense of victimhood. And as I sat there across from him yesterday, that was the Dennis that I saw who is scared. You know, I saw that fully. So, but he's— he is. And I know it's trite to say, but he really is strong. He did not exude any kind of sense of victimhood at all. And I asked him— we, we had a lot of conversations, and the thing I appreciate so much about Dennis is there's no beating around the bush with him. He is so willing to go there. And I asked him, I said, are you angry at God? And he said no.

Yeah, I would have guessed that he would have.

And he looked, he looked at me with these, with these eyes, you know, he kind of looked at me and shook his head and I could see in his expression, not that he was saying that it was a stupid question, but that it was inconceivable to him that he would be angry with God. And I said to him, "You know, a lot of people in your position would not have the strength of character to give that answer." And he very typically in Dennis form kind of looked off to the side and nodded. He is so sweet. I know I'm kind of going on here about being with him, but I know people want to know. I mean, he is just the sweetest, gentlest person. He was blowing me kisses.

And I can't say that he's never blown me a kiss.

You're missing out. He is so kind. Of course. I mean, to, to all of the nurses that come in, he's, I, he's smiling. I mean, Sue was, and Sue, my God. I mean, we, we know her. She is, she is stoic. She is so devoted. She is incredible. I mean, I, strong. I can't tell you how highly I think of her. And she was in there and she was addressing something and she was in a silly way giving Dennis a hard time. And I look at Dennis and I go, wife is Sanskrit for flaw finder. And he got a, he got a big smile out of that. So he's there.

I was gonna say, I, I like you, like you, I don't know if maybe you're too young for the Kool-Aid Man. Do you know the Kool-Aid Man?

I know Frito Bandito from the—

The Kool-Aid Man would come through the wall and leave a Kool-Aid Man-sized hole in the wall. I have a Dennis-sized hole in my life that can only be filled by Dennis. And it's— yes, we have the daily routine of seeing each other, and I never took that for granted, even though I miss it tremendously right now, and I'm sure he does too. I miss hearing him. I miss hearing his take on what news stories matter today, on what micro issues should be focused on, his clarity of thought. And it's not just missing Dennis. I miss Alan, too, who has been gone.

You know, I know in the hospital it's so weird coming in here and, you know, I'd walk in and Dennis would be sitting right where you're sitting and he would go, Jules, and he'd have his lunchbox. I'd steal his keto snacks. And his coffee and all that. And it's so weird walking in here and not having him.

But what did he mouth?

What did he mouth about his— Oh, yes. So he mouthed Starbucks. He really wants Starbucks. And I just, I love that he has his sense of humor. I love that he still has his vitality. And I said to him, I said, I love being with you. 'Cause he was thanking me for being there. And I said, please, I'm, I'm not just saying this. I love being with you. He goes, really? I said, of course. I, I even, you know, even the past 2 weeks, like not having any contact with him, even though the way that we communicate is diminished, the, the fact that I can sit there with him and just be with him and he's there and we're looking at each other and we can, you know, I mean, that's, that is a great blessing. And today after the show, I'm gonna go over there. And I have in my car all my Dennis Prager books, and I have underlines. He always loved to see what I underlined, which I can imagine for an author is very edifying to see what made an impression on the reader. And I brought his Happiness book, and I always considered it to be truly one of the greatest privileges in the world to be able to call or text Dennis Prager about Dennis Prager's work. I would read his Bible commentary. And I'd have a question and I would call him and we'd get into these great discussions. And I would think how I seriously, and I feel grateful that it was never lost on me. I would think how lucky am I to have God's conduit on earth. And that's what I believe Dennis is. God's translator and explainer on earth on speed dial to talk about all of this. So I'm going to do that. I'm going to read things to him and talk about it with him because this is what gives him life. He's— and I can understand this— he's addicted to ideas. He's addicted to learning and thinking things through. And I want to keep that going for him.

I agree. I can only think about how difficult it is for him to not have his outlets, his vices, his life. Like I said, the Dennis-sized hole is there, and, and we will carry on, and we will do the show, and people will sit in, and you will do your thing, and, and I will— I have work to, to bury myself in and, and temporarily take my mind off of things. But he's, he's just there, uh, having to deal with that. And I, I just so badly, like you, want to just ask him questions. I would, I would never hesitate to ask him something, and I knew the response would be measured and well thought out.

Totally.

And, and probably hilarious, uh, whether it was about relationships or, or happiness or whatever. It could have been about anything, uh, and we truly would get into some silly, silly times. I don't think people know.

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How goofy he is.

So goofy. I can't even tell you. I mean, I was— what did I— hopefully I didn't unplug something there, but I would walk in and sometimes I'd be the drill sergeant.

Very good show.

You guys are so funny. Dennis and Sean are like, we don't have time. And Dennis is like, I have to do my fireside chat. I have to go on Newsmax. And Sean Sounds like I have the new, you know, next show to film. And it was so funny because for all that you two would talk about not having time, right, then they would get into these—

well, he would always say that the, the, uh, the nonsense keeps him sane.

Yes.

And I agree with that. He deals with such heavy topics with such grace and eloquence, uh, and conciseness and But that's what I miss the most, I think, is the goofiness.

Well, yesterday, one of the things that we talked about and one of the things he said to me was I always talked about how lucky I was. And I said to him, I know I've been thinking about that every day. There's— if there's one thing I've been— besides his health and his, you know, praying for his full recovery, that's what I've been thinking about, how He was so lucky, and this was terribly unlucky, and so quickly terribly unlucky. And I think he took comfort in the fact that I said to him, you did always talk about how lucky you were, and you— and that is proof that you never took it for granted. Never.

No.

Every day of his life, he understood his blessings. And Dennis also, he went through a lot in his life. I mean, we tend to think of him as as, you know, happily married, which he is, and have this great career, which he, which he has, and these two wonderful sons. But Aaron had horrible addiction issues. He lost his ex-wife to cancer. He has had, you know, private personal struggles, as we all have had. And he always maintained such a happy, upbeat attitude because he always knew the alternative. He was so acutely aware, literally as recently as 3 days before this accident happened, we were in the car together talking about this, and I said to him, is there any weak spot in your life? And he said no. And he, and he, he was— we were driving to Dennis and Julie, that last one that we did at night, and we were on the freeway. And you— and I remember this, and he was saying no. And he goes, but I know that, I know that could change. He said that. And he said, I know how lucky I am. And he said, I think about all the people who have been dealt such a such a terrible hand, and I don't think I'm immune to that. And that's what I mean. And that's why I, when I was there in the hospital with him, looking at him in arguably the worst place he's ever been in his life, and I said, are you angry at God? When I tested Dennis's ideas against Dennis's ideas, Dennis's ideas held up.

Oh, I've known the man, and of course they do. That's not shocking to know that, that there is, there is no whole in his logic. Everything has been gone through and thought through and procured over time. His paradigm is flawless. And what a test this is to him.

It's a great test.

But you're totally right. He did not take it for granted. He knew he lived a blessed life and he was grateful every day and he would say so. Well, I said, and another thing he would never do would be, and I think this is one of the things that made him great and not just a flamethrower, uh, that, that, you know, people can become in this arena. He cared deeply about the dignity of human beings. So even when people were slinging arrows and bile his way, he would never respond. And try to attack someone's dignity.

He always— he's— he treats himself and everyone else with such dignity.

Agreed.

Oh God, I miss him.

Should we play something? Should we play a little bit that you've prepared?

Oh yes.

While we gather ourselves.

And by the way, we, we hope that this is a processing episode for you too. You know, I know many people want information, but I've been really lucky to be able to call Sean every single day and go, you know, oh my gosh, and talk things through with him. And we know that there are so many people for whom Dennis is a part of their lives, and we want you to feel free to process this alongside us. So one of the great things, you know, I actually am going to play this for Dennis later today. I think you'd get a kick out of it. One of the great emails that I got from one of you dear listeners was a video from Dennis speaking at a Jewish event in Canada. In September of 1987.

Oh wow.

And I watched this clip. Sean hasn't seen it yet. I pulled some parts of it, and Dennis is so Dennis. His, his ideas are the same. You can see with the 40 years from then to now how he's refined his ideas, but he— his ideas are so similar, and his, and his idiosyncrasies are similar. I was watching him say correct and do his laugh, and which I imitated for him yesterday. He got a kick out of it. So let's roll the first clip. Part 1, and he says something that I have never heard him say about himself, and I think you'd find it to be of interest.

I want to speak to you tonight about the most important subject. If I can only speak to a group about one thing, this is what I want to speak about. I entitle it generally Why I Am a Jew. It was entitled here— what is it— The Intellectual Case for Judaism. Underneath, what was the major title? Choosing our heritage and the intellectual case for Judaism. Let me explain to you why I think this is so critical. I have one, at least one, at least one that I admit to and I'm not ashamed of, one childish quality. Children are notorious for asking why. If any of you have kids, you know that. You know, you tell them to put on a coat, why? You know, it's 2 degrees out, they still ask why. Go to bed, why? The sky is blue, why? I retain that quality. I want to know why. Oddly enough, with regard to being Jewish, the question why, when I've asked it my whole life, why should I be Jewish? It's occurred to me in the last decade or so that I am merely representative of the entire Jewish generation raised after World War II in the Western world.

So isn't that cool? He said that he realized that he is a representative of the Jewish population post-World War II in the Western world. And I had never thought of it that way, but he really is.

It affects him deeply, and I'm sure there's, there's very religious Jews that differ with Dennis on things, but his, his approach is so unorthodox. It's what makes him great. But also that he had the, the relational connection to the Holocaust, being that close to it. He knew people.

His relatives were victims.

We live in a time now where people deny that that happened. I know that was one of the things that it would just, would blow Dennis's mind, that people could deny that that ever happened or that it could be forgotten. In some way. Weren't we talking about how Eisenhower made sure—

I learned that from Dennis. Dennis taught me that on Dennis and Julie, that Eisenhower, when he was leading the Army for the United States in, in World War II, which few people know, he demanded that we take photos and videos of the concentration camps because he said people will deny that this happened. They won't believe it. And they still don't believe it. It is nutty, but You know, a note on, on Dennis's relationship with Judaism. He is so remarkable in that the reason he is famous is largely because he has brought people, people closer to God. And you have a sheet in front of you with many dozens of messages.

I do.

And the through line of each one I've noticed is You brought me to Jesus. You brought me closer to God. You brought me closer to my Judaism. I mean, Dennis Prager is the reason that I believe in God and my— and there is no greater gift to give a human being than a belief in God.

Or that you made me a better person. Yeah.

I mean, it's unbelievable. And that is what he sought. He didn't seek fame. He wanted to touch people. He wanted to bring people closer to God. And he— I always say Dennis taught me that the Bible is a divine life manual. God is the divine life coach. And I believe that Dennis is the divinely inspired conduit and explainer. And he is the reason why I call my show Timeless, because in every single one of those pages of the Rational Bible book, he takes this 3,000-year-old story and he makes it so relevant to the modern day in a very understandable, profound way. And he illuminated to me that there are certain universal eternal truths that stand the test of time. And every single day, I believe what he's done on his radio show, and I as his hopeful protégé endeavor to do every day in my burgeoning career, is to take whatever is happening every single day and fit it into that paradigm of the eternal wisdom. And that, that is what he is a savant at. And I don't think there's any other figure in public life that is able to do that the way that he has done it. And it in large part, I believe, is because of his yeshiva education. I mean, we see on Dennis and Julie that he will talk about the Bible and he'll start reciting the— he has to recite the Hebrew first before the English. And I told him in the hospital the other day, I said, you know, Dennis, seriously, because of you, I as a Gentile would consider sending my kids to yeshiva.

Interesting. Interesting. Well, he's going to want you to marry a Jew.

You know what, actually, whenever people say that, Dennis goes out of his way to say that's not true. Oh no, no. And I think that's a testament to him. He has never, I am telling you, and I go to his Shabbat every Friday night. I mean, Judaism is so important to him. He has never pressured me ever. I don't think he wants to become a Jew.

I think he wants it for Judaism.

Oh yeah. Well, he has said that before. He said that, you know, we'd be lucky to have you, but, but it's really a testament to him, his agenda is ethical monotheism. He's delighted. How many people can, how many Jews, how many people in general would be as delighted as he is that he has brought people to the opposite religion? I mean, whenever people say to him, and you have a letter which I think you should read where someone said, he told Dennis that Dennis brought him to Jesus and Dennis said, great. And he genuinely means that.

Yeah. Uh, you touched on two things there. The ethical monotheism, which is one of the things I love about Dennis Prager, which brought me back to faith, uh, and, and calling it the rational Bible. He, he cuts through the things that people attack as fanciful or, uh, unbelievable and cuts to the, the truth and wisdom and rationality of faith, which I don't know if anyone else has done that.

I don't think anybody else has done that. I, I can't tell you. I, I really believe that God intervened in my life to bring me to him. The fact that my introduction to religion was Dennis Prager is something that is a permanent fixture of gratitude and awe in my life.

I feel the same way.

He is so different. And again, for people who are listening who have children or grandchildren and you wish that they were closer with God, Dennis's books— and he has numbers out, and it would make him so happy to know that people are buying it while he's in the hospital.

Folks, no one writes a Bible commentary to become rich.

Yes, and there's a talking donkey in the book, uh, which is a very cool story. But his way of explaining it is so unique because it's not proselytizing. And for a 20-year-old girl who grew up in Los Angeles in a secular environment, that was so the right touch. And he always says that he explains, or he leads people to a belief in God by first convincing them of the necessity of God. And he takes these things, and I'm telling you, I mean, He has this ability, and we all know it from listening to him, to say the most profound thing in also the most concise and simple way. One that stands out to me, which I believe is in 4 words, the essence of Judeo-Christian values and of, in turn, the United States of America. He says that the Bible is ethic-centric, not ethnic-centric. And I go, How the hell did he do that? First of all, 4 words, and then this is what's so, as I say, Pragerian about it. It's not only 4 words, it's not only profound and understandable. He's got 2 Es and 2 Cs in there. He has a repetition of a word. It's actually only 3 words. Ethic-centric, not ethnic-centric. How did you do that? He has this amazing way, and you look at it, and he's actually fulfilling all of these, uh, great, you know, tools of the English language. He's a— that's why I believe he's divinely inspired. I mean, who does that? It's so cool.

I don't know, and I don't know how to explain it, but I know that my role in all of this was to be here to take care of everything on that side of the glass, on that side of the microphone, so that he could just be himself with his thoughts and deliver to everybody out there what we all come to Dennis for.

You deserve an enormous amount of credit. You really do. And I've told you this. I came into this family 4 years ago. You are such a protector of Dennis. You are always there for him. You're always looking out for him. And I know that you view it alongside Allen is your life's vocation to help him. And I just want people to know how, how tremendous. And Sean never seeks the credit, nor does he often get the public credit that he deserves. You enable him to do what he's done. He is so— I think about this all the time, actually. I don't even know if I've said this to you. I think all the time how lucky he has been to have you because God, people could really hamper his ability to do what he does. And you've just always take— like, you've always just gone out of your way to, to take anything on so that he can just sit there and be himself. So thank you. Well, thank you. And, and I want people to know that God has put me here to do that.

I believe that. And I don't need— it's nice, thank you.

No, he knows it. And he says it to me too. You know, a few days before the accident, we were talking about you in the car and I was saying how much I love you. And he goes, really? Him? And he said that to me. He said, Sean has been there for me. He's been such a blessing.

Mm-hmm.

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Well, I think we all feel the same way about him. I think there's many people that would have done what I have done for him. I was just in the unique position to, to make it happen. And I believe that God put me through what he put me through in life to put me in the place where he put me to be able to do the things that allow me to help Dennis do what he does.

We're so lucky. Day in, day out, to have been with him and hopefully continue to.

So yeah, he's got, he's got work to finish.

So sorry, I'm putting my coffee down. One of the things I said to him is, Dennis, you got to get back in the studio because I want to steal your coffee. Where's my phone? Oh, I want to read to you all a message I read to Dennis in the hospital yesterday, and it meant so much to him. And then, Sean, you can read a few. And as I said at the beginning, I can't stress this enough. He needs this. He wants this. So please do write in. Excuse me. Here's what this individual said. Please let Dennis know that I think of and pray for him as I drift off to sleep and the first thing in the morning when I wake. He's on my mind and heart all day, every day. I meditate on his speedy and full recovery. Aside from my immediate family, there is no greater influence on my life. This is the part that really touched on us. My own father died when I was 16, and I discovered Dennis not long after. For 30 years, he's been a surrogate father to me and all around my moral, religious, intellectual happiness, clarity, North Star. So pleased to know that you're seeing him today, Julie, and that he's able to have visitors. I'll also take this opportunity— and Dennis loved this— to be brave and ask that y'all keep me in mind for a future Shabbat dinner. That would be a dream come true. But a much bigger dream is that the world hear Dennis's voice again immediately. And Dennis looked at me and went, yeah, yeah. Can you read Dorothy's? That one is so nice.

Dorothy's was very touching. I mean, the, the list goes on and on from well-wishers. And you want information like we want information, and there, there isn't information to be had. This going to be a long process, and Lord willing, he will recover and come back to us. Uh, Dorothy says, dear Dennis, you have been on my mind throughout the days since learning about your health crisis. This morning, as I read Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning for the first time— late bloomer— I reached this moment, quote, certainly my deep desire to write this manuscript anew helped me to survive the rigors of the camps I was in, unquote. Obviously, I thought immediately of you. Ever since I began reading your Rational Bible Series, I have prayed that God will let you live to complete this incredible gift to humanity. After your accident, I told my sister that I don't believe God will take you from us before that work is done. I have not quite finished Deuteronomy. And just ordered numbers. Pause. PragerStore.com, please.

Amazon. Yes, he would love it.

You can—

not because of the proceeds, but because of touching people's lives. Seriously.

All right, unpause. I am greedy and want all 5 books for myself, but more so for my grandchildren.

I know.

That said, you have already lived a life of vastly more meaning than most of us achieve. Know that no matter what is in store for you, many millions of people have gained from your work, gained from the work you have done. From illuminating the obligation of happiness to helping me finally read the Bible with some semblance of understanding, you have made my life better and helped me focus on my own reasons for living. I am 70. I am late in this process, but I have a theory on why this late-stage awakening is not wasted. I have longed to share that theory with you and hear your reaction. I realize you probably will be too busy to ever respond, but I hope to articulate that message and send it off to you soon anyway. Just in case the message filters to the top of your in-basket. In the meantime, you are high priority in my prayers. May God wrap loving arms around you and yours, heal you swiftly, and return you to your life's greatest works. With gratitude to God for giving us this gift of your good works, I am sincerely yours, Dorothy.

What a blessing. What a lovely, lovely, lovely lovely letter. Can you give that one to me? I want to read that to him today.

Sure, you can have the whole stack.

And if we didn't read yours, I'm sorry, but no, I, I will read yours with him. I sit there a lot of hours with him and he loves them.

The, the letters, the eloquence, the goodness that I've seen over the years and, and since this happened from his listeners and readers, totally We said that yesterday is a testament to who he is.

Yes. You know, that's such a great point. And again, I mentioned that to him. I was reading aloud the letter that I had read and I said, how? Or actually, maybe it was another one. There was one that talked about how Dennis has brought him to classical music. And I was, you know, put that one at the top because how much Dennis loves classical music. And this guy was so well spoken. And I just said to Dennis, I looked at him, I said, how cool is that? And I think for him, it's, it's like pride in your child almost, you know, that, that he is attracting such well-spoken, well-thought-out messages is edifying for him. It's a mirror for him.

Well, we've talked about this. It was his goal from a young age to bring people to the good. And there is no greater good than God, and he has proven that in his life's work. And he has done that by gathering good people in his life. The people around him are tremendous people as well. And if you only know Dennis, you don't see the iceberg under the water that is the team that makes up Dennis, from Alan to Sue to his sons to everyone at PragerU. I'm missing people. I'm sure Joel Alperson is an amazing person. He is surrounded by good people and with goodness. And I believe it's because he is who he is. He is what he practices, what he preaches. He is the same on camera as he is off. He is a grateful person for his life and such a deep thinker. But you're right, his ability to whittle it down to the bare essential, the conciseness that makes it poignant for people. I think, like I said, I miss Dennis because I never took for granted that I work with him every day, but I need to hear him. I need to hear his voice. I need to hear his take on things. I, I need to be annoyed by him again.

I'm sure he wants to annoy you.

Yeah, yeah. And he would, he would rib me, and then he would say something completely mean, and then go, oh folks, the way men rib each other.

I told you my mom thought you guys didn't like each other, right?

Right. But we love each other so much, and he knows that. Um, he had the scare with the, uh with the car accident a couple of months ago. And I remember when that happened, I came up to him aside in the hallway and I just stood there and I looked at him. I said, Dennis, you have to be careful. You are too important for something like that.

I know he, you know, the problem is he was just so go, go, go, go, go. You know, it just, there wasn't another That's how he operates. I told him all the time to slow down. He, it didn't pro— it's sort of like telling me to slow down. I sort of, I sort of understand it, you know?

Yeah. You're, he was either sleeping or going.

Mostly going.

Always. Yeah. And, and when he slept, he slept.

I know. Trust me, I envy him. Well, there's another clip that we can play, which just shows that he sounds and looks— maybe more so sounds— the same. And just another beautiful Dennis argument. Part 2.

When it comes to between man and God, there the heart is very important. Very. Praying meaninglessly is meaningless. But giving charity meaninglessly is not meaningless. The poor need our money whether or not our heart is in it. My heart isn't always in it. I do not like giving charity. I admit to you, as we approach Yom Kippur, I prefer to buy stereo. Okay, that is what I much rather write my checks out to. It is done because of the law. However, I must tell you, is it not amazing? Not a single charity I've ever sent money to has written back inquiring as to whether my heart was in it. They cash the check and couldn't care less. Isn't that disgusting? Do good, then you'll be good. Don't think you're good and then do good. I did a very interesting show once on my talk show. I said, call up and tell me if you think you're a good person or not. 2 hours, 2 hours people called in all night. Every single caller said he or she was a good person. Which can lead you to only a number of possible conclusions. 1, people are liars. 2, everybody is good. 3, everybody who listens to my show is good. That's about it. I don't subscribe to any of those theories, but you must admit there is a riddle. I have found, and I do believe this, I believe almost everyone on earth thinks he's a good person. So we have a real riddle, don't we? If everybody thinks he's a good person and so much evil is done, how do you account for evil?

Right.

The answer, the answer is people judge themselves by their motives, not by their actions.

Wow.

It's fun to see him look like that, right? What did he look like when you, when you first started working with him?

The same.

Really?

He, uh, it's weird to see the old clips of him because he's just more himself than he was. He's more energetic. I heard him talk before about the only thing that slowed him down over the years age-wise was the way he walked, the way he moved, and that was true. But he was so full of life, and, uh, I, I, working with him for the, the, the amount of time that I have, I, I've seen him, um, age, but in a way not to the negative. It, it it refined his ability to communicate because he was so unflappable from the arguments over the years and, and the logic that he has gone through. He was very precise about his logic, right? He, he, everything he says, he's thought through, and he's run it by the gauntlet of people around him that, that the Prager paradigm is rock solid.

It is a paradigm. It really is. And you and I were talking about, and when I interviewed Aaron on timeless, we were also talking about how Dennis has influenced us. And it's so hard to say because it's constant and it's sort of, we all agree, it's like on a daily basis, on a multiple times a day basis, you'll be in a situation or a conversation and you'll see evidence of his thinking. For me, I think I've come to understand the biggest way he's influenced me, which is that he has set up a kind of scaffolding or infrastructure through which my thoughts are processed. And I saw this a few months ago when Nellie Bowles was here in studio. Nellie Bowles is a former New York Times writer and she is Barry Weiss's wife. And together they launched the Free Press. And she recently published this book, Morning After the Revolution. And I walked into the studio and she was here. It was funny. I was actually just watching her on Megyn Kelly. And then I opened the door and she was sitting right here and I went, oh, hi, I was just watching you. And Nellie had mentioned that the editor of the New York Times had called Barry Weiss a Nazi. And I'm standing here and Nellie's here and Dennis is right where you are and Alan's over there. And I said something which showed to me how much Dennis has influenced me. And I saw this excitement in this glimmer in Dennis's eyes when I said it, because it showed him that he's influenced me. I said, when someone who you admire approves of you, that should be encouraging to you. But when someone who you don't admire disapproves of you, that should be equally encouraging. It's Dennis's mirror theory. And I said, so you know what? If the New York Times editor called Barry Weiss a Nazi, then Barry Weiss is probably doing something right. And Dennis looked at me like, He was, but it showed, I don't know if I would've been able to articulate, I know I wouldn't have been able to articulate something like that prior to my encountering Dennis and thought of things that way. And I saw this in his own life where he would often, and you know this from working with him for so long, incur venom from people who disagreed with him. And one time we were at a speech and people booed him and I asked him afterwards, I said, how do you react to that? How do you, I said, "What is it like for you when people boo you?" And he looked at me and he said, "It's a health benefit to me when people boo me." I said, "Really?" But it's because he— and he said, "It's because I know that I'm getting to people." And he has this worldview and he gave me this worldview and it's a very biblical worldview. Dennis is living, walking Judeo-Christian ideas. And it is that if you are doing something noble, If you are endeavoring to tell the truth and to be brave and courageous with your life, it is a guarantee that you are going to get pushback. It is a guarantee that people are going to turn on you, smear you, lie about you, roadblock you. And Dennis lives that. He doesn't view himself as a victim. He doesn't even— he doesn't get down by those things at all. He fits it into this worldview of this is a feature of life and not a bug. And that is such a thing that I have inherited, and I wish more people would inherit that suffering and setback and hardship is a part of life, especially if you're being brave.

It's brave to not care what people think about you.

Did I already tell in this episode about how I asked him if God was— if he was angry at God?

You might have.

I don't know. I have. Okay.

She did.

But it just— he's— the real test of a person is when they're in a situation like this and if they can maintain their character and their worldview through something like this. And as I sat with Dennis yesterday, he is rock solid in that worldview.

We mentioned the Prager paradigm, and I believe that it is so strong, and I think he would tell you this, because it is Bible-based, it is Torah-based. He wouldn't take credit for that. He knows— and I can't say it in Hebrew, but I know he said it many times— that we stand on the shoulder of giants. There is something to be learned from the, the life that Dennis has lived because he has spent his life building goodness. Which is far more difficult than tearing things down, to build the radio show and the column and the books and PragerU. And his personal life alone would be a testament to goodness. The unpublic Dennis would be a testament to goodness.

I know.

And I think that's what attracts good people. They are attracted to that goodness, to the the clarity of thought, the Bible-based nature of his rational understanding of what is very hard to understand. But he's lived his life doing that. And I know we all want him back, and I know we all want to hear from him again, and we all want him to finish his work. And I feel very awkward sitting here because, A, I should be over there doing what I do best so that he can do what he does best. And I in no way have any intention of trying to be Dennis Prager. That is something you and he have that are special. That we just wanted to try not to rehash the old episodes and do something here where there's a forum. If you would email Julie or leave your comment under the episode, something you want to say to Dennis. Not only will we try to get that to Dennis, or we'll try to share it.

Oh, I will. I can almost guarantee it. I mean, he loves, as I've said many times, he loves hearing it.

So before I lose my thought about standing on the shoulder of giants, Dennis did that, and it's up to us to continue to do that. And he has left a legacy that I hope he will return to. And I am optimistic about, but he's done the hard work. It's easy to hate Dennis or attack what Dennis has done. It's very hard to do what Dennis has done. And if you don't learn from what he has done, if there's hate in your heart for him rather than learning from the, the life that he has lived and the stuff that he has done to grow from and to stand upon, You're truly missing the point.

Oh, you are missing out. You have no idea how much you're missing out.

So.

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He would often say that people tell him that, I feel like I know you, and he would say, you do know me, and you do know him, because there was no hidden Dennis. And I know that from decades of working with him, that Dennis here is the same as Dennis there, and that he spent his life crafting and honing that paradigm of logic that we all can benefit from.

He also really taught me to love life, truly. He— we, we were at his house like a year ago, and he was just sitting and looking at fountain pen ink. And I always thought of it as just an idiosyncratic interest. And I sat there and I think I talked about it on Dennis and Julie and I told myself, you're gonna, you're gonna try to love this. You're gonna. And I really did end up loving it because watching him love it and he would look at the different color and they really are beautiful. In fact, I've downloaded some samples and I'm gonna swipe through and show them to him. I said, Dennis, we're gonna have fun. Fun in this hospital. I'm going to read to you parts of your book. We're going to look at fountain pen ink. We're going to, you know, have chit-chats. We're going to get through this. I said to him, this is not your battle. This is our battle. But he taught me to love life. I just— and I went, yes, why would I take something like fountain pen ink for granted? So beautiful that we live in a world with color and variations in color that we can appreciate, and it makes life richer. And he just— everything around him, he didn't take for granted. And so few people have that. He really loved all of life, and he didn't let life get him down. We would be in situations, we'd be in traffic, and I would be annoyed, and he'd be laughing, like giggling to himself. And that takes a real— I know these things sound small, but to appreciate the small things and to not get annoyed That takes a big amount of strength of character.

I've never really put this to words, but you just made me think of part of what makes Dennis special is he has been honing his logic from a very young age, far beyond when we're all young and dumb and stupid and running around in our teens and our 20s. Dennis was honing his logic totally. And because he's been doing that so long, he reaps the benefits of that now later in life. Because he's not burdened.

Thank you, Tom. He's unburdened.

Uh, he's not burdened by what has been. I hate that.

You couldn't have thought of another?

So true. It's more true than when she says it.

It actually—

because he is unburdened by that stuff. He doesn't have—

there's no— that is so funny.

Baggage hanging on.

Sean, I'm gonna— yeah, I He's going to ask me today how Dennis and Julie went. I'm going to say, Sean said that you are unburdened by what has been. He's going to roll his eyes.

Well, I think he would find it funny, but it is true. And I think he would tell you that what I'm saying is very true. A lot of people are bogged down by the past. It keeps them from being free and in the moment and appreciating what is and being able to see angles that other people don't see. And he truly lived his life and will continue to do so that way, because that's one of the things I admire about him most that I've never been able to put to words, but I witness it.

It's—

he's so clear in thinking. It's, it's not tainted by emotion. It's not tainted by ego.

Not at all. Neither of those things.

When he's writing, he thinks about how the listener will receive it.

May I pause you for a minute? Don't lose your train of thought. I sat in his office, God, so many times. I mean, the way I got into his life was, well, I emailed him, as we know, the famous story, and I came in and did a few minutes on the radio, and then I pitched to him being his intern. Do you know that? I wrote him a message and I said, I want to be your intern. And I said, I don't care what I do. I don't care. I will shine your shoes. I will get your dry cleaning. I will organize your mail. I don't care. I just want to be in the room with you. And I still am blown away when I'm in the room with him. And the summer that he was working on Numbers and Deuteronomy, these books mean a lot to me because I got to witness them. I got to watch his process. And one of the things, to your point, that he said to me was, and this is even such a Dennisism, like the way that he crafts these things that he, you know, he starts Dennis and Julia. I have a theory about this. He has a theory about his theories. He crafts eloquently. The reason why he crafts things eloquently, it's amazing. He said, "I work hard so the reader doesn't have to." And I mean, I have been in those forums. He has Rabbi Joseph Telushkin come out and Joel Alperson and Sue, and sometimes I'll sit there and watch the whole thing. And he'll call— I mean, he has all these old Torahs and books in his office. He's pulling things off the shelf and they're— I mean, he's— he has gone through the rigorous wringer to produce the flawless product that we all are the beneficiaries of.

I know it. I know it. And if one iota of that was his ego, it would all fall apart.

I mean, literally, look, I mean, I don't think there's any better example or evidence that he doesn't have an ego than the fact that he writes Torah commentaries. I mean, if you want to get famous and you want to be, you know, fawned over, you don't go write Torah commentaries. You know, he just, he never sought, he never sought the dazzling stuff. That to him was the dazzling stuff. And he alerted me to that's the dazzling stuff. When you read it, you realize that that's the treasure in life. It's not What does Dion say? He always says to me, you know, when you don't have God in your life, you're seeking fame, honor, glory, and something else. Dion, listening right now, is shouting at the screen.

Hi, Dion!

Hi, Dion! How cool is that? What the fourth one was. But you recognize that the treasure in life is the word of God.

I mean, I think Dennis would tell you that. He said many times he believed that the Torah commentary, that he's— the Rational Bible that he's been working on is his finest work. And there's— that's saying a lot because there's a lot of fine work there.

I mean, look, we have his Happiness book behind me. We have his Think a Second Time. You know, I want to— I don't know how much time we have. I know how much D&J flies, and you're getting a sense of it now, but You know, Dennis is so the real deal behind the scenes, and something I've always admired about him is that he doesn't just preach in front of a microphone. He goes out into the world and he really tries to pack a punch. I thought of saying making a difference. I just could not say those words.

He calls the radio show his laboratory. His theories, his logic are tested. They are forged.

And something he does, and he loves this, he takes it so seriously. After our Friday Shabbat dinners, he goes home, he sits, he doesn't light a cigar because it's Shabbat, and he prepares his sermon for his Minyan the next day. I mean, Dennis, who's on the radio constantly and he's traveling, I mean, the way he spends his whole Saturdays, he goes to synagogue and he leads his synagogue.

That's what I was telling you.

I mean, he, he, that's not filmed. He doesn't get money for that. This, this guy is the guy in the flesh. He goes to his synagogue on Saturday. I mean, I, I can't go to synagogue on Saturday. I'm exhausted.

That's why I said the private life of Dennis would be testament enough to his goodness.

Yes. And he— I just want to highlight this. This is such an incredible book. I'm telling— I mean, I've read everything he's written and I'm— I love it. He took on the cause of a boy named Danny. One of the things that Dennis always talks about is that blood means nothing as far as love goes. And we see this in his life with his adopted son Aaron, who he equally as he loves his biological son, David.

He would say blood schmud.

Blood schmud, as Dennis would often say. And I want to read to you this because he— when Dennis saw evil, you know how his line, evil is not dark, it's so bright that people are afraid to look at it. Dennis Prager would look at evil, stare it down in its ugly face, and try to do anything he could to conquer it because he believed if you love God, you must hate evil. That's right. I want to read to you just— it's about a page. Something evil happened in Chicago, Illinois on Sunday, April 30th, 1995. A 4-year-old boy named Danny Warburton, known for the previous 3 years under the pseudonym Baby Richard, had his life devastated, his family broken. Such things happen sadly often, but almost always it is criminals who do these things. On this day, however, the cruelty inflicted was inflicted by 5 men whom society trusts to keep the law, not to break it. And to protect children, not to break them. This is what happened, as reported by Bob Greene of the Chicago Tribune and published in that newspaper the following day. Please, Mommy, don't make me go alone. Please go with me, Mommy. The 4-year-old child known as Richard was sobbing so convulsively that he seemed to barely be able to breathe. His adoptive mother was holding him inside the home where Richard had lived his whole life. I don't want to go, the boy tried to scream through his sobs. Don't make me leave. There was no way for the woman he has always known as his mother to answer him. She was sobbing. We'll love you forever, she managed to say. Please don't make me go. Please don't send me away, Richard yelled. Minutes away, a van carrying Richard's biological father and mother— she is the woman who willingly placed him up for adoption at birth and sent word to the biological father that the boy was dead— was heading towards the house. The van driven by the biological father's attorney was on its way to pick Richard up and drive him to the biological parents' home. Richard had never seen them. This would be their first meeting. His adopted father, a firefighter, dissolved into tears. "You, Daddy," Richard said, "can come with me." Richard's older brother, 7 years old, stood weeping as they took Richard away. So this boy Richard was adopted. As you just heard, his mother gave him up for adoption and told the biological father that the boy had died. When he was 3, the biological father found out that he had not died, and the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that he should be taken from his adoptive family and placed with his biological father. And Dennis thought it was cruel, how much it broke the family, how much it broke Richard. Danny is his real name. And Dennis fought. He flew out to Illinois. He, he, like, he took it on. He met the family. He wrote about it. I mean, he really took it on. And Richard ended up being permanently taken away from his adoptive family.

Wow. But this is, this is how he lived his life, and Lord willing, will continue to Jules, how can they reach us?

Who are you, Dennis? Julie at julie-hartman.com. I hope I mentioned this. I asked, actually asked him yesterday when I was reading emails, like, oh no, now how can they reach us? What's the email? And he rolled his eyes at me and smiled. But please do email me at julie at julie-hartman.com. We love hearing from you now more than ever. And thank you so much for your continued prayers for Dennis Prager. We'll see you soon. Hopefully with our dear Dennis Prager. Amen. Take care. Shalom.

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