Cat-Calling, Becoming How You Dress, Art, The Tyranny of Photos, Having an Adventurous Spirit Abroad

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Hello there, everybody. D&J, Dennis and Julie, aka Beauty and the Beast. I never thought of that. I, I, it's not funny.

I'm the Beast, by the way. Sean wanted to call Dennis and Julie that in its early inception.

Yes, yes, that's disgusting, Sean. Okay, hi everybody, great to be with you and great to be with Julie. Julie just returned from 10 days in Spain and Italy. And I'm very curious about your reflections, but I have a reflection. So, oh God, here we go. Yes. So this is, this is, this is, it's worth everything to me.

Oh no. Yes, I know what it is.

I know you know what it is. And I have to have a disclaimer at the outset. Julie did, had no idea in telling me this story that I would not only talk about it on Dennis and Julie but begin with it. I may even talk about it on my own radio show. So in Italy, you would be walking on the street and guys would— some guys would be yelling out, "Bella, bella!" which means beautiful. Julie was afraid that if I talked about it, it would be perceived as her bragging. A, A, she had no idea that I would talk about it. B, that's not even the issue. The issue is— there are two issues and they're both gigantic. How you reacted and how that is verboten, which is the German for forbidden, in America. If a guy yelled out, "Hey beautiful," today, he might be arrested.

Well, absolutely. But the difference is that when girls— and I've been catcalled in Los Angeles walking with— it happened like before my trip. I was walking with friends in Venice and we were catcalled. The guys do it in such a gross way here, here in a demeaning, gross way.

That's interesting.

That's where they kind of bark at you and it's kind of hot.

Give me an example. I've never had a catcall. I'm not being cute, but obviously I wouldn't know. So go ahead.

Oh, God. I mean, I can't remember exactly what they say. But it was sort of like, oh, God, I don't know if I can say this word. But I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Douchey. Just really douchey. Like, super confident, but smug and kind of like, hey, well, what would—

what would the words be?

Um, I can't remember. I'm sorry. It was just—

it was So, okay, all right, then let's counterpose it to the Italians.

We were walking and they were like, whoo, like yelling.

And so it was more animal. It was more animal-like.

Yes.

As opposed to cute male-female interaction.

I remember the guy was making reference to body parts behind. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Right. No, no, it's a very important thing for me.

It felt gross.

Yes.

It felt like—

whereas in Italy it was not.

In Italy it was really— it was like sweet. It was definitely, definitely forthcoming, but it was sweet and it was fun.

So it is an interesting question.

And the guys were cute. The guys who were saying it were cute. The guys in Venice Beach were yelling at my friend. They were like— they had like chains on.

All right. Oh, so that raises another issue. And then this is a really important subject. To me, and I think to a lot of people, and if it's not important to somebody listening, I'll demonstrate why it is in the course of the time. But let us say it was a cute guy in America.

Yeah.

Who had said those things. How would you have reacted?

Well, I have told this story on Dennis and Julie, but not in a long time. But one time when I was in college, I was sitting outside my favorite ice cream place eating ice cream alone. Like, I would go there every day. Uh, best place ever, by the way, if you're in Cambridge, Massachusetts. JP Lex, great ice cream. Anyway, I was sitting outside once and this guy came up and said to me, hi, what's your name? Or first he asked what time it was, and I thought, well, it was so stupid. Like, you have a phone, you know what time it is. And then he introduced himself and indicated that he was interested, and I was terrified. And I kind of like shooed him away.

Oh, which you regretted later.

I totally regret it. I absolutely, I totally regret it now. But at the time, first of all, it so rarely happens these days because guys have been taught not to do that. And to your point, they've been told that there's something bad and wrong and patriarchal about doing that. And then as a girl, you know, you're always told, be on high alert for, you know, people who are— may try to take advantage of you. Or if a guy comes up to you on the street, be really careful. And so my Pavlovian reaction was to put up my defenses and go, no, he didn't. He didn't go to Harvard. I think he was just like someone who lived in the area.

A mere mortal.

A mere mortal. No, I mean, like, he wasn't a student. I didn't recognize him. He seemed a bit older. And so I immediately put up walls and kind of shooed him away. And I regret that because that took a lot of courage for him to do. Oh, a lot of courage.

The number—

I wasn't rude, by the way, but I—

So that's—

I warned him.

Well, by the way, that is yet another subject and all of them are worthy of getting into. But I want to just get an answer to, to the question I didn't know I would pose. But based on your comment that the guy wasn't even cute, Had the American guy who said the stuff that was somewhat gross, had he been cute, how would you have reacted?

I would have still reacted negatively to the—

so, okay, so your comment about the not cute was like adding coal to Newcastle? I mean, you're just putting on more gross—

they were just like gross looking people and they were yelling about it.

But even if he weren't gross looking, it would have been gross. That's— I just want to establish that. Fine. All right. Okay.

Okay.

Good. You know me, I'm, I'm preoccupied with clarity. So. Okay, that's one issue. We're putting that aside. Okay. Why do you think— and I'm not sure I have an answer— why do you think— you may not have an answer— why are American men more likely to be gross in their, in their behavior toward a woman than an Italian guy?

Well, I think it's less normalized here to be forthcoming with women in that way. And I think the people who do do it are particularly scummy. And the way that they do it is particularly scummy. Like, I don't think the good guys in America are doing that because they've been taught not to. So it's just kind of scummy guys who are going to yell about your body parts publicly. But in Italy, it's just a more romantic culture. And look, by the way, when I was there and I was thinking about all my impressions, I was trying to counsel myself against totally romanticizing the place because it's very easy to go to another country and go, oh, everything's so much better here. That's— I'm not, I'm not into that. I really want to have a clear head about this. And there we can get into a larger discussion about the differences. But I will say I did notice it was just more of a romantic culture where a lot of guys did that. And they were cute. They were really cute. And they were normal. They were like dressed normally. And they would, they would be in a group and you'd walk by and they'd yell, Bella, Bella. And I kind of turn and smile and wave and keep walking.

You did?

One of them asked me if he could buy me gelato.

And what did you say?

I said no.

Because you weren't alone.

I was alone, but he—

so why didn't you say yes?

He wasn't cute, right? Being blunt.

That is so interesting. I'll be— I hope you're—

it wasn't attractive.

I hope you're married soon.

As you know, you hope I'm married soon. Here we go.

I work very hard on that. But, uh, if you're not in 5 years, I will be very curious How cute— how much cuteness will still be?

Oh, you know, it doesn't matter very much to me on the scale of things, but if I'm being blunt, I— this guy was, was not cute, the gelato guy.

So had he been cute, you would have gone, yeah, right. Poor guy.

You know what, I so admire that though. I really do.

Yes, it takes courage. You're entirely right.

You know, so recently I, by the way, my email is julie@julie-hartman.com. Whenever I talk about getting emails, I should publicize it. But I recently got an email from someone, a listener of DNJ. She's 30 years old and she asked if she could come to a Shabbat dinner. She lives in Los Angeles. And she wrote to me and she asked that. And I have to say, I admire, I, When people do things like that that are a little bold, I really admire them for being bold. And that doesn't mean the answer is always yes. Just as with the gelato guy, I politely— and I actually did have museum tickets on that.

Obviously, we can't always say yes because we can't— limited one table.

It's right. Exactly.

As you know.

Yes.

But okay, I want to get back because I want— I just— I'm happy if it takes a long time. I'm happy if it takes a short time.

Okay.

My agenda is clarity. So we've talked about the grossness issue. We've talked about the American-Italian distinction, right?

Yes.

Okay, so the next— now we get into really heavy-duty stuff.

Oh, here we go.

Okay, so we'll talk about you. So to my everlasting— no, well, I take it back. I was gonna say amazement, but that's not true. I know women pretty well, and I'm not amazed. But your thought was, me? He's saying that about me? Correct? I mean, I know this is very revealing and so on and difficult for you to talk about publicly, but it's a service to men and women to understand men and women better. That a girl as pretty as you— and I know I'm embarrassing you right now, uh, you don't even have to react— but that you would think, what, there must be some other woman or other girl around?

Well, when in Italy, these women walking by, they're stunning. And you know what? They dress— they're hot. They, they dress like they're hot. They are hot. They know they're hot, and they dress like they're hot. And I like, I really like that.

You've raised another issue, which I want to get to.

And they have this like red lipstick and this beautiful hair. I'm like, go you, girl.

That's right. I agree with you. And I want to get back to that too. So my friends, are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? Well, let me tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is entirely science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition, and it's so much more. They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you might have gained this weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just science and science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for the last time, call 864-644-1900 or online at myphdweightloss.com, and you can make an appointment for a one-on-one consultation. Again, 864-644-1900. So this actually happened. Yeah, it happened just this past week. I, I was interviewing a man publicly. On personal finance issues, and his wife was present. They're middle-aged, and she's a pretty woman. And I don't remember how it arose. Was it her birthday or something? Anyway, I said, I just want you to meet Mrs. So-and-so. She's in the audience. Stand up. And I said her first name. People applauded, and she sat down. And the subject of— I always like to compliment women publicly or even privately. I— because I'm not gross. There is no grossness intended.

Yeah, you're not yelling about their body parts on the street.

Yes, exactly. And it's important to most women for good, and it should be. As it happens, it definitely is, right? So I then spoke again to the audience and I said, when I mentioned she— what an attractive woman she is— and I said, yeah, but she— I don't even know this, I don't know her, but I know she doesn't believe me because women, the vast majority of women, don't know how attractive they are, of attractive women. There was applause from the audience. I had hit such a truism about most women because I know it from my wife, who is a beautiful woman.

She is.

Yeah, she just is. If she doesn't know it, she has no clue. I wanted— you know this, I've told you— I actually regret that I have not kept a list of all—

You can start one.

I could start one. Of all of her deflections of my compliments, a typical one would be, well, it's dark. That's one of my favorite. You know, you look beautiful today, Sue. Well, it's dark.

No, she says, I'm glad you think so.

I'm glad you— that's a very common one. I'm glad, like, if you think the earth is flat, that's just fine. No issue. Not an issue to me. So Your reaction, me, like looking around, who was he saying Bella to, which is beautiful in Italian, that is the female reaction.

Well, so I've thought a lot about this and I think there are a few things. Well, girls, we are very hard on ourselves. And to speak very frankly, as we often do on Dennis and Julie, you have really opened my eyes to the fact that the way that girls judge themselves is not always the way that guys are looking at them.

Rarely.

Yes. And that was revelatory to me. And again, to be really blunt, wanna know one of the biggest things I have learned? Thinness. Now I am really lucky. I have never struggled with an eating disorder. I, I love food too much. I, and I was always exercising growing up, but really it was, you talk about nature all the time. It really was just never in my nature to struggle with that. I have had many friends, many girls, most girls do, but we have this idea that thin, and at times very thin, is very attractive. And you have told me, and then I've gone out and I have bluntly asked other guys, you have alerted me to the fact that actually, and obviously every guy is different, but it's actually more It's more of a girl, an internal girl thing to be skinny. Like you want to be skinny in the eyes of other girls.

Gay male.

Well, let's go back to the bell. The guys yelling that out. Because as I said, and it's very easy to romanticize another place, especially when you're in Europe. But as I was saying, there is in my view, a more romantic culture there. And I saw it with the guys who would yell out, and I saw it with the way that the woman dressed. As I said, there were these gorgeous women, and they knew they were gorgeous, and they dressed like they were gorgeous. And it was very glamorous, and it was very sexy, and I was kind of inspired by it. It was, it was really cool. It was really cool to see.

It is really cool to see.

I mean, why wouldn't you?

America has so deteriorated in my lifetime. Look at how women dressed two generations ago.

I know. So beautifully.

Beautifully.

I mean, I was— I saw the movie Casablanca recently, and the woman— of course, I'm forgetting her character name, but her actress name is Ingrid something. Her actress name. Her real-life name was Ingrid Bergman. Yes.

Yeah.

She dressed so elegant.

Elegant.

And this doesn't mean that you dress—

my mother dressed elegantly.

So elegant.

Until she died at 89. She dressed up every day, even if she didn't leave the house.

Well, you know, I— so when I was there in Italy, I planned all of my outfits before, and every day I wore a different outfit, and I kind of embraced the culture of walking around and, you know, like, looking glamorous. And it was really fun. It was really, really fun. And I was thinking I should make that more of a part of my life because it's fun to feel pretty.

Right.

It's fun to feel pretty, and, and you feel like you're elevated, you know, and you feel like you're making something of yourself. We don't tend to do that very much here.

Clothing is so important.

Yeah.

When I teach the book of Leviticus, there's a whole chapter on how the priests were to dress. I go, God must think What you wear is pretty damn important if there's a whole chapter on, on the, on the clothing the priest will wear.

Well, you know what, it kind of like you almost become the persona.

That's right.

The person you're dressing.

Do you know, that is why this is how I know that liberals and leftists— this is not unfortunately just left, this is liberals as well— are so foolish on most issues. Nice people often Bright people often— bright is not the opposite of foolish. Wise is the opposite of foolish. Bright and wise, very true.

There are a lot of highly intelligent, well-informed people who are called professors.

So, uh, so true. Yes. So anyway, uh, we were talking about— yes. So I remember when My younger son went to a certain private school, which is a fine school, and they had no dress code. And I asked the principal, a woman, why is there no dress code? She says, because it doesn't matter. You could learn wearing jeans and a t-shirt. And I thought in my mind, this woman is a fool. And she was a wonderful woman, and she's a wonderful principal, and had a wonderful school. Every study has shown where there are dress codes, there is less violence and better grades.

My high school, my all-girls, uh, high school, we wore a uniform and it was very strictly enforced. And let me tell you, it was so nice because there were no distractions. You just went there to learn and you can't compete on clothing. You know, it was, it was so nice to wake up in the morning and just have that taken care of. It was— and it made you feel— I mean, my— when I was there, my high school was so uber rigorous to the point of insanity. And now it's so the opposite because it's gotten so woke. We're like, standards are racist. It's amazing how fast a pendulum can swing. But you felt like you were a student and you felt like you were there to learn. Again, you sort of become the persona of how you dress. And when I was in Italy and I was putting on— actually wore this dress at one point, you know, on one of my days that I planned. I just, I felt young, I felt pretty, I felt flirty. And yes, it helped that I was in beautiful Italy, which is a very kind of, as I say, romantic place. But I sort of became the persona of how I dressed.

That's right.

And that was really, I mean, and think about like if you walk into a meeting and you're nervous about the meeting, dress really well, like feel really confident about yourself going into that encounter or a date, because it can, it can really change your mindset.

I think I have commented on my radio show, you know, we take an elevator to get to the studios here.

Yes, we do. And so many interesting interactions. For some reason, our building, you ever notice the people are What? Varied.

You chose your word carefully. I have a feeling they're varied in most buildings, but nevertheless.

No, they were like, yeah, anyway.

But when I see men and young men and women going to work, not only not dressed in office clothing, that they will, it will be no different if they went to a baseball game.

Well, how about working from home? I mean, working from home, I think, is one of the tragedies of our time. I have so many friends who, who work from home and they're wearing pajamas. I mean, it's literally called like Zoom work. And it's, it's, it's an outfit. I mean, you wear— if you're a guy, you wear your boxers and then you have your like tie and your jacket on top or not even that, a sweater. And then girls, you know, wear your sweatpants and you have a nice top. It's— it's— you working from home is terrible because you don't— you don't meet people, all of that. But you don't— you don't feel like a professional.

I don't— well, I don't know why one would feel professional. Do you know that before there was any video, I wore— I'm on radio for 40 years. I wore a tie and shirt from the first day of radio.

Good for you. Good for you.

And no one saw me, right? I mean, the engineer saw me. That was it.

But I bet it elevated you.

It elevated me. And it was an announcement to everyone. I take this work really seriously.

Yes. And you take yourself seriously.

And that's right. That's good. I take me seriously. That's right.

So this is— I have so many things I want to tell you, the collective you. About my trip. Just literally, I have a list of all these things. But, but on this point of, um, sort of your, your surroundings— I guess your dress isn't your surroundings, but take that, um, you know, your surroundings informing how you see yourself, the way you behave. One of the things I really observed on this trip, and I— we've talked about this on Dennis and Julie, we've talked about it in the social media realm is that we are enslaved to photos. Utterly enslaved. There are many good reasons to buy gold and silver. Bank failures, digital currency volatility, emerging market countries trying to topple the dollar as a global reserve currency. Julie Hartman here for Amped Coin and Bullion, Dennis's choice for precious metals. If you ask Amped owner Nick Grovich to simplify the case for precious metals, he'll tell you that when President Roosevelt recalled the gold in circulation and paid people with paper money, they received a $20 bill for a $20 gold piece. Today, that $20 bill won't even fill half of your gas tank, but the gold piece is worth about $2,000. Which would you rather own? Now let's simplify the reasons to use Amped Coin and Bullion. Nick has been in the industry for over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick and his team at Amped Coin and Bullion, 1-800-221-7694, americanfederal.com, AmericanFederal.com. And so every site that I went to, and I'll give myself a bit of credit, I am not one of those take a million photos at a place kind of person. And to the extent that I was that person, I have so become less of that person because I am convinced that social media and all this photo stuff is a cancer. But even, you know, we would go to the Coliseum and I was with my parents and we wanted to take a photo of us at the Coliseum, as we should. But we take the photo and then I look at it and I go, I don't like my smile in that. My mom goes, my scarf looks weird. And my dad's like, I need, you know, then you take another one and then you look again and then you go, oh well, mom looks good, but my eyes are closed. Let's get it from this angle. And then we did. And again, we're not, my family is not the crazy photo family. Trust me, I know those families and I know those people. There are crazy photo people. But I found that it, it was like a nagging kind of thing on our, our sightseeing to take photos at these places. And so one day I went to the Vatican— actually went to the Vatican twice, but amazing. Obviously you've been. Isn't it incredible? Could talk about the Vatican for the whole Dennis and Julie, and I'm sure we will one day. But I— we were about to enter the Sistine Chapel And I have never been to the Sistine Chapel. And you know me, I watched all these videos and all the— I was like so excited to see it. And as we were walking in, there was this big sign: no photos. And you know what my reaction was?

Thank God.

Thank God. And it made the experience so much better because when you're in there, you think, oh my God, I'm in the Sistine Chapel, I want to take a photo to show my kids one day.

I want to take a photo— sign that women have to cover their shoulders?

Perhaps. I— my shoulders were already covered.

Well, no, no, seriously, but it's a very interesting thing.

And also silence in the Sistine Chapel. Yeah, they— and they had people come over the loudspeaker to call me out.

I'm not— I'm not a Christian, I'm not a Catholic, but— or maybe— well, but is probably correct in this instance. I don't think a— I don't think any Catholic —since it's obviously the Vatican—or any Christian is more moved by the Sistine Chapel than this Jew. Why? Because it's holy. Because it's the greatest artist in— I'm glad you asked why, because I'll tell you why. There is no comparison, I mean none, between art inspired by those who believe in God and the secular crap that has been produced since the beginning of the 20th century. Retweet.

Amen. I mean, the whole time in Rome, and I was going from church to church to museum to this monument to that to this fountain, and it is all so spectacular. And dazzling. And the thing that is amazing about it is that people— I mean, when was St. Peter's Basilica built? 1500 years ago. I went into the Santa Maria Maggiore, which is one of the, the big pilgrimages.

Was it that long ago? Really? Maybe, maybe it was more recently.

St. Peter's was, I think, actually more recent. Um, but the Santa Maria Maggiore, which is one of the biggest churches, that was from like the 5th century. Really? This, you, I know this is true of St. Peter's. I don't know if this is true of the Santa Maria Maggiore, but you could fit the Statue of Liberty in St. Peter's Basilica. Yes. And that's how high the dome is. And the Santa Maria Maggiore, I can't believe that. And I was looking up and you have to understand with St. Peter's is probably like 600 years ago that that was built. Santa Maria Maggiore was over 1,000 years ago. These people did not have, of course, anything that we have. Right. And I thought, how did they get up there?

And everything started in 1506.

God, that's so embarrassing. I can't— I just got back from Rome and I got the—

completed in 1650. So it's 500 years.

But okay, but even back then, I mean, how did they get up there? And not only how did they get up there, how did they create such beauty? And you had the answer right there. Oh, I know, it's divine inspiration.

No, no, the belief— belief in the divine. Yes. So yes, you could say divine inspiration, but They— I know this because, you know, my field is music. I love art, but I— but music makes me— make tears. Yes. Okay. So my two favorite composers have, have been Bach and Haydn. I did not know this about either and then learned it in reading biographies about them. Both of them would, on their manuscripts, you know, their composition pages, would have 'for the glory of God' in Latin. I think it's 'nomini domini,' something like that. And, or, uh, there was another phrase, uh, 'glory to God,' and also in Latin. So it's not coincidental that the people who most moved me— there is a direct, absolute direct relationship between the death of God in the arts world and the birth of garbage.

Absolutely. And I really learned this trip, or it was very much hammered home to me, that the art that a culture produces is such a referendum on that culture. It tells you so much. A reflection. Reflection, yes. Even, I mean, they had all these old Greek statues from, you know, thousands of years ago, and they're so beautiful and feminine, and it showed you like there was peace in that time for them to— peace and beauty and great talent, but peace for them to create such glorious art. Then during like the time of the Roman Empire and medieval Rome, the carvings were a lot more stern, less romantic, less— because They were, you know, fending off barbarians. They were going and conquering other lands, and they were concerned with strength, and they had to communicate strength. Then we have the Renaissance, which is obviously splendorous and incredible, and that indicated both the prosperity of the time but also the deep belief in God. And then now we have all this modern art crap, which shows that we are uninspired. Yes.

Well, You're 100% right. When you said referendum, you meant reflection. I actually sort of meant referendum. Okay, fine. Maybe that's too harsh, but— No, no, neither is— Well, they're both harsh. That's the issue. Wasn't harshness. I just thought it more reflects the time you live in, which is what you were saying. Time of peace, you had this. Time of war, you had this. Yes. Referendum means judgment. Right. All right. So fine. They're both correct. Let me talk to you about the reflection part. People— almost no one listening to us now knows how much modern art has been scatological. Yeah, scatological. It means having to do with excretory functions, with, with, with ejaculation and urine and urine and feces and sweat. Sweat. And menstrual blood. Yep. I mean, I did a show on that one. You did? I did.

Yeah. On comparing modern art to classical. Oh, yeah.

Well, this is really your passion now, and I love that. It is. Yes. As usual, you've mastered it. No, I haven't mastered it. No. Well, to a great— I mean, it's unbelievable how much, how quickly you learn. So it's to your mind's credit and to your credit, because you want to, you want to know everything. I do. One of the things I identify with in you, although I admit there are things I don't want to know. Gardening. Yeah, I will admit there are things I am not curious about. Fishing, gardening, fishing.

Yeah, fishing. I could, you could do with that.

Yeah. No, no. But I'm thrilled that there are people who want it. It's not a— I'm not better for it. I'm worse for it. But I acknowledge it. But you're saying this got a lot of people. So, yes, the The, the great example— there are two great examples. Piss Christ, where the, the so-called artist, the guy named Serrano, puts a crucifix in his— a jar of his urine. Now, is that deep or what? I mean, this guy is just transformative, right? Uh, so that's one example. The other, which is the— well, there are so many. I am in my— I actually, I mentioned that in, in my Bible commentary. Uh, the, the Netherlands has a, a very large museum. It's, it's like, it's like as large as a convention hall. And so you could put very large artworks in there. They devoted one to an exhibit of sculpted poop. Are you aware of this?

Oh yeah, I've profiled it on my show. The sculpted poop?

I did. Yep. Do you know, here is the most important part of it, not just that they did that, was that the New York Times wrote a serious review of it.

Okay, so two things to say about this. The first is that all of this modern art crap is actually really shows the conceit of the artist, because the artists in the Renaissance were concerned with glorifying God and being the best at their craft. They were concerned with communicating how meritocratic they are. Like, I am the best sculptor, I am going to master these forms and even kick it up a notch in my own way. These modern artists who are doing the poop stuff and the pee stuff and the throw paint at a canvas and call it art, they are trying, they're making themselves the art. They're trying to go like, I'm so cool and I'm so defiant that I'm the first of my kind to do a poop sculpture. It's about them and not about the, the craft itself.

It's about the talent-free.

That's right. That's the first thing. Of course, I'm forgetting the second thing. I have jet lag to blame. I'm actually not jet lagged. Maybe I really am becoming more and more like you. I actually feel fine. But oh God, what was the second thing?

Well, damn. All right, the first thing was so important, it was okay, and then I added the talentless part. But listen, when you can't rival Michelangelo, you do poop. That's right. You know that in front of the Orange County Museum? You remember it? Yes. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead.

Well, I was going to say that the artist is conceited, but they often say that art is a commentary on society. And I wonder if there aren't some modern artists who create that crap to see how people will react to it. I think most of those modern artists are just talentless, and they think they're doing something defining. But I would not be surprised if there are a few individuals who do it to see the way society reacts. Because to your point, it's not just, you know, terrible enough that we have this, this modern art, but we have people ooing and aahing and posting about it and writing these, these, you know, long articles in these newspapers about it. And that's— that is the ultimate social commentary, to see the way that we lionize literal crap. As some of you may know, I use a lot of MyPillow products. I sleep on a MyPillow. I sleep on the Giza Dream bedsheets. I use my towels and I wear my slippers. And you can get a lot of these products at a discount 2 if you use the promo code Prager. Right now, MyPillow is having a $25 extravaganza. When MyPillow started, it was just a one-product company, but now MyPillow has hundreds of products, some of which you may not even know about. This is why they want you to know about their $25 extravaganza. 2-pack multi-use MyPillows for just $25. MyPillow sandals for $25. Their 6-pack towel sets for $25. Brand new 4-pack dish towels, you guessed it, for just $25. For the first time ever, the premium MyPillows with all new giza fabric, also just $25. Orders over $75 will receive free shipping too. This offer won't last long. Just go to mypillow.com and use the promo code PRAGER or call 1-800-761-6302 today. And use the promo code Prager.

Parenthetical note: art critics and music critics have done more to damage art and music than any other single group. They're the ones who extol the virtues of garbage and are angry at those who continue to extol the virtues of the great works. Oh, oh, it's I read this stuff all the time and it's consistent. I wanted to tell you the Orange County Museum of Modern— what is it, the Orange County Museum of Art or Museum of Contemporary Art, whichever. It's not— I think it's contemporary art. It's Orange County, California. I don't know if they still have it, but for years they had a giant dog, sculpted dog, giant, way, way larger than humans. And it was in the front of the museum, leg up, with a constant urine stream.

Doesn't, doesn't surprise me. You know, by the way, speaking of the Sistine Chapel, before the Sistine Chapel, you know, you go through the, the tapestry room, you go through the, the map room in the Vatican, which is so cool. Do you remember the map room? Oh my gosh. You go to the Raphael rooms at the School of Athens, then you kind of curve down, and before the Sistine Chapel, there's a modern art exhibit. Oh no, in the Vatican. And I, I didn't even— I didn't want to waste my mental energy on looking at that. Did you see it? I saw some of it.

And is it the usual garbage?

It was like someone, you know, painted across, you know, one—

oh, one— at least you recognized.

I know, one line is right, red, the other's blue. Oh my God, it's genius, right?

You know, and by the way, why is it not a legitimate criterion for a work where if the— if you or I could say, gee, I could do that, exactly, doesn't that mean it's not that great?

It means it's garbage. Yes, I can do it. That's exactly— trust me. Yes, exactly. If I can do it, it's garbage.

But you're right about the narcissism of these artists. Oh, the narcissism. We live in the age of narcissism. So I am the center of the universe. Yes. There's another thing too. You— oh God, I never told you about this. You love the books I to you for good reason. I do love them. We think so similarly. Have you read The Painted Word?

No, never heard of it. Okay, a week from now, you know me. Yes. Oh, it's a short book.

Oh, you'll read it tonight. The Painted Word. It's a brilliant title. And the— yes, because the— what he's showing— I forgot who wrote it, but he's very— he was very famous. The painted word is that you— when you get this long commentary explaining a painting, it's— that's the art. The painted word. It's not a painting, it's a painted word. The same thing— say, look, I know music well. I conduct orchestras. I, I really— I know I'm I'm not a genius, but I know music well. And when I— here's a perfect— not when I— here's a perfect illustration of my point. Anyone listening to us now who has never listened to classical music, if you heard the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or Vivaldi's Four Seasons The odds are overwhelming. You would go, wow, without one word of commentary. You would need no one to say a word. The music speaks for itself. Great art speaks for itself.

You don't need to explain why it's right. It is so obvious.

Yeah, but now you get these long explanations. Once I get a long explanation I know the music is not communicating anything.

Absolutely. And the same with the art.

Yeah.

Gosh, I have so many other things. Yeah, go ahead. I want to tell you, but I feel like they're a little scattered. Did you have pasta? Of course I had pasta.

Make sure you ate well.

Oh, I ate well. Yes.

By the way, I just— yeah, I will tell you though, I prefer American pizza to Italian pizza. You are—

me too. Yeah. Me too. We did better than that. We did. Oh my gosh. Thank you for saying that. I was so afraid to admit it.

Yeah. No, no. I have no respect for that.

We go there on Dennis Prager. Dennis and Julia in so many ways. Yeah.

You know, I don't know. I, I, I couldn't, but I've been to Italy a lot of times. I didn't wanna say it was good.

I didn't wanna say it, it was very good, but I, the ice cream's awesome.

The pasta's awesome. Yeah.

The ice cream is amazing.

However they prepare their fish and, and meat and, and all these things, but the pizza. Yeah.

So I, I'm, I'm trying to pick my, my observations wisely, uh, because there's, we'll have to do another Dennis and Julia on one of the biggest ones. That I'll reserve for later.

Well, just tell me what it is.

So I had a crazy trip in the sense, like a totally, a trip I didn't expect in that I was going to Spain and Rome with my parents. And when I got to Rome, God bless my parents, for like the whole rest of the trip, I barely saw them because the first night I went to an aperitivo. Do you know what an aperitivo is? No. It's like an Italian, like, wine cocktail.

Aperitif, I know, but I didn't know what an aperitivo was.

Yeah, I went to an aperitivo at this— the home of this couple, Ashley and John. I was introduced to them through a mutual friend. Okay. And a listener of this show and of Timeless. Nice. And his name may or may not be Dion. I thought, I thought, why not? Okay, friend of Dion, go on. And thank you, Dion. Thank you, Dion, because Dion opened up my whole trip by introducing me to this couple, Ashley and John. I went to their aperitivo on Monday night. Pause. By the way, speaking of, you know, the romantic, like, enjoy life culture of Rome, they have an aperitivo, and these are two working people at their apartment on Monday night, and it was packed. They're having wine, and they— and one of them, they had one the next night, and they dedicated or an hour to talking about why Caravaggio was the genius painter that he was. And they have all these people coming and sitting and drinking wine and eating hors d'oeuvres and talking about this on a Tuesday night. It's so cool. They really just enjoy life, right? Even during the week, God forbid. But the first night I went to their aperitivo and I met all these people. And then the whole trip, all these people kept inviting me to these events. Every night, these cocktail parties, these dinners. And it turns out the week that I went was America Week at the Vatican. So there were all of these people associated with Catholicism coming to the Vatican that week for various fundraisers, various events. One night I went to a cocktail party at a rectory, like a seminary. In the Vatican. And I met all of these young priests. By the way, I'm going to have some on my show. And I am literally like holding a gin and tonic, talking with, you know, a 27-year-old priest, asking him, do you yearn to marry? I had these fascinating conversations with these individuals and about, you know, very real concerns I have about the priesthood or questions I have. And I'm kind of looking around, I'm going, How did I get here? How did I get to be in the Vatican talking with like these cardinals, these priests, all these people at a rectory in Rome? I don't know how that happened. But anyways, it was an amazing trip for that reason.

To be a young, pretty woman. Wow. No, no, it's a very big factor.

And so it should be.

But you know what, by the way, obviously we don't do Dennis and Julie because you're young and pretty. It's because you're deep and bright and brilliant.

It's not because I'm young and pretty. Come on.

Correct. That is true. It's a bonus. It definitely is a bonus, but it is not the reason.

But I want to tell you more about that. One, you know, you're saying, oh, it's good to be young and pretty. I'll leave that there. What I will say is that I am more adventurous when I'm abroad. Uh-huh. Things really open up for— I mean, you know, you remember London, how crazy that London trip was for many reasons. I, and I think a lot of people are like that. What did Sean say?

You don't want to know. Okay.

But I find that it's easier for me to meet new people and take risks and say yes to things and kind of put myself out there when I'm abroad versus when I'm here. Well, I wonder why that is.

No. Well, That's true. I think for— interestingly, it's a very interesting topic. When you leave home, and I mean really leave home, it's not like if you go from LA to Portland. I mean really leave home, like a foreign country, right? The normal rules don't seem to apply. That's right. That's what it is.

That's a really good way of putting it. And also the stakes are lower because the stakes are nothing, if that makes sense. Right? Yes. Because it's not permanent. It's not permanent. And I was there on a family vacation and then everything else was like an added bonus.

That's why in other realms people will do things that they would never have done. You know, for example, sexually. It's— You mean abroad? Yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. They will have an affair. I don't mean they can marry people. I see. Just they will much more readily have an affair than they would have at home.

It's sort of like when you leave home and you go, as you say, really far away, not just going to another state. It's almost like you leave yourself back there. That's right. You want to explore a new you and sort of become—

that's what I mentioned. But I mentioned I know this from people who have traveled. And that's a really cool thing. Well, I said to you, it'll be wonderful for you to get away. It is good for everyone. Everyone has— well, you have to— I am— you can't— I don't imagine there's anybody happier than me. I hope there are many as happy as me.

That is so nice. And what a cool thing that you acknowledge that too, because that's, that's not bragging, or that's a really nice thing that you say that, because so many people will very often talk about how how sad they are, how—

Oh no, I—

You rarely hear how, when people say what you just said, how happy.

Well, I have a lot of thoughts on that. That's great. Thank you, it's a very sweet thing for you to point out. But it was a preface to noting that as happy as I am at home, and I am, getting away is always a good thing. Now, I get away all the time. I'm headed to South Africa after this for the Passover holiday because I'm speaking there. Be safe. Thank you. Be safe. There's nothing I can do about it. I, you know, it's in fate's hands, God's hands, whatever you want to say. But, you know, I will be there. Look, I've been to 130 countries. I know what you're talking about. And but I say to everybody, Most people are not going to get to, to 50 countries, let alone 130. But you, you have to make time to get away. So my friends, are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? Well, let me tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is entirely science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and And it's so much more. They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you might have gained this weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just science and science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for the last time, call 864-644-1900 or online at myphdweightloss.com. And you can make an appointment for a one-on-one consultation. Again, 864-644-1900. Yes, and ideally, look, my favorite getaway is with Sue. There's no— but if you're single, this is just as true for you. It's just as true for married. By the way, it's great for marriages to get away. Mm-hmm. There, there, it's a really important thing to do. People are lazy. I, you know, you'll find this fascinating. So, you know, for, for over 25 years— oh, absolutely, maybe 30 years— I have been taking listeners on cruises around the world. It is totally cool. And if we, you know, that's how I've gotten— it's one of the reasons I've gone to so many countries. And I notice on, on the cruises, there are always, uh, mostly it's couples, but there, there are almost no single men, and there are a fair number of single women, widows. But not just— interesting— not just widows or women who never married, women who came because their husband didn't want to go. Wow.

Why, why wouldn't the husband want to go?

Okay, so I asked them that, and they will say He doesn't like packing, traveling.

He likes packing, get over it.

Well, okay, so I'm not knocking these guys. I'm sure a lot of them are wonderful men, seriously. I'm not being patronizing, but I also have your view. There are times that the human being has to say, not what do I want to do, but what will better my life? Yeah, that's what you're saying. Yes. And there—

gosh, this, this is a really good topic because you— again, I find I'm so much more adventurous when I'm abroad, and I'm so much like, I'll just introduce myself to random people. I mean, that's how the whole trip opened up, right?

Which you wouldn't do here.

I wouldn't as much, right? I wouldn't as much. I believe it's harder to do. I think it's easier when you're abroad because people people know that you're from somewhere else and there's this kind of adventurous spirit associated with the trip. And so I think it's just easier to do that there and you're, you're received better.

If a foreigner speaks to you, let's take here in America. I love talking to foreigners. Right. And that's the point. And another American just starting to talk to you is okay. Right. But it's, it's a little stranger than a foreigner. Oh, where are you from?

Exactly.

Or, you know, tell me about America. You're not, an American's not gonna say that to you.

There's an easier conversation starter. There's this air of adventure. And yeah, and I know I was at the Getty Museum here in Los Angeles recently and I was standing in front of a painting and there was, I heard these people speaking in a thick accent. I asked them where they were from. They were from, I forget where I think they were from. Um, what's the country that starts with Poland. What's the country that starts with a P? Apparently I am a little jet lagged. Philippines. Uh, yeah, that's right. Um, they were from, um, why am I— what's the country? Yeah, Poland. That's right. Um, and they started chatting with me and, and I wanted to help them. Like I wanted to make their trip really good. I almost like invited them to dinner cuz we really got talking. But I, they were asking me questions and I gave them a list of places to go. And I think it's like exciting for you as the native, certainly exciting for the foreigner, but there's, there's just an easier interaction because there's something kind of to talk about or to help somebody with. Whereas if two Americans start talking to each other in a museum, it's sort of seen as a little weird.

Yeah. That's why that was my point.

Yeah. So, but that's not, it's sad that it's viewed as weird. I agree.

I, I, I, I talk the strangest Today in the elevator, and Sean is a witness, he was in the elevator with me.

I feel like you guys are never in the elevator together.

No, we were, and this was a major moment in his life. So we're both in the elevator, we go to the 5th floor, and a guy came in, to my great shock, jacket and tie, young guy, and almost as tall as me, good-looking guy, I should have gotten his name for you. But anyway, I'm preoccupied with getting her married. What am I going to do?

Getting you married. Huh? I love that. Getting me married.

Yes. So anyway, I look at the guy, Sean is a witness. It's— he pressed floor 2. I go, sir, I don't understand. You couldn't take the steps? To his great credit, he goes, yeah, I— you know what? I'm really lazy.

Oh no, you shouldn't have given him my name then. No, I'm kidding.

Oh no, it was to his credit. I agree. I totally immediately, uh, repartee in a funny manner. That was great. It was a good sign. But anyway, I, I'm a big believer in talking to strangers. You say I'm not typical in that way of opening up the conversation in that way, but you're right, it's easier when you're in a foreign There's no question about it, and it is one of the many advantages. Do you know when I— well, you know, I said you're, you're young and pretty, but I was, I was young but not pretty. But I will say this, I traveled alone probably to 50 of my 130 countries alone. It's wonderful. Till the age of 32 when I, when I first got married. And all the time people reached out to me. I remember in Japan— Yes, I was a young man and, and it, it was, it was awesome. I remember so well. I'll give you two very quick, two examples. An American couple in Japan. I don't know how we met. We started talking. Well, here he is, this young American alone. I'm obviously not wealthy. They took me for food, and I'll never forget, we're talking now the 1970s, they spent $75 on me. Do you know what that would be today? It would be like $600. Wow. $500 on this incredible meal. And they were just delighted to meet a young American. And when you're alone, people really reach out to you.

They do. Yes. They really do.

So it's not just, seriously, it's not just girl.

No, I agree with you, but I wonder if we do that here in America.

I don't know if we ever— I did. I, you know, I had Cassie and this German guy. You had Astrid.

I mean, you're Astrid.

Oh, we— yes. Well, that's—

we love— you're you. You're you. That's— I'm wondering if Americans in general do that. I'm not so sure.

You know what I have found increasingly now which is not— I'm not happy about it. I can't make any general statements about Americans anymore.

Yes, I have been trying to not do that.

Well, no, no, I don't think it's good. I used to be able, and it was, it was quite positive. There has been such a downturn in the quality of even people made. Well, you will love this. So I'm sorry, you know, remember what you are. So I'm reading, believe it or not, a biography of James Garfield about whom most Americans know nothing. But I love reading biography. Reading a biography is as close to candy as I allow myself. That's my favorite single form of reading. And so I'm reading. Oh, because when there are— I have an answer. So for example, he was elected president, he became president in 1881. So I'm reading essentially the biography of a man essentially from the Civil War, 1861 through 1881, about 20-year period. If I picked up a book, America 1860 to 1885, I would not remember nearly as much. Yeah, I learn about an era through an individual, so I get the bonus of a person's life and the era. That's— so I have an answer to you. It is the best way to learn history is to read biography. The reason that I'm mentioning it is every chapter in the book begins with something that Garfield wrote in his diary. As a young man, or later middle-aged man. He was tragically assassinated, and he was a great man, and people don't know it. They only know he was assassinated if they know anything, and many don't even know that. Many don't even— most don't know that. So here he is, it's starting in high school, and every diary entry begins with a quote from Shakespeare. Shakespeare. Oh, cool.

That's really cool. They knew so much more than, than we do today. Yes. And one of the great lies of our time is that you need a lot of resources and a fancy education to be learned. And I know people— computer, of course— and I know people listening are gonna go, well, easy for you to say, you went to Harvard, you know. But I read this book, and of course I'm forgetting the title, I have it at home, but it's about these Christian missionary projects in West Africa for girls. And they tell these stories of these girls who are literally learning on dirt. They're learning in these shanty huts that were built by these missionaries with donated textbooks, donated pencils on pieces of paper. And by the end of the year, they can speak a different language. Or they, they're proficient enough. And you know what it is? It is a willingness to learn. That is the number one thing. And of course, having instruction is very important. Having resources is very important. But we have an excess of resources here, and many of us are profound— profoundly ignorant. Oh no, I mean, have you read the Civil War letters?

Uh, people, I mean, they're, they never went to high school.

They never went to high school, and they're so well spoken. Their vocabulary is exquisite. There are references to literature.

I wish— so I'll conclude on a complete— no, I don't want to conclude.

I have so much to tell you. I know.

Good. Remember, will you remember? I wrote it down.

Good. Pages. Yes.

So I'm ending on a completely dark note. Okay. In every way that was good in the past we have deteriorated in America. In the bad ways, we have improved. There's almost no racism except for those on the left who have contempt for blacks, and so they always lower standards for them, which is the ultimate contempt. But, uh, so I, whenever I say, oh, America was really special They go, oh well, what about racism? That's correct. That is correct. Racism, yes, no one denies it, but the racism has overwhelmingly been conquered. But all the good things are worse. So we got better in the one bad arena and we got worse in every good arena. Kids know nothing, including your fellow students at Harvard. I told you, it is my dream. Maybe I, maybe I could get Ami Horowitz to do this. Just ask. But I would like to ask— I'm— you know what, I gotta write a column on this. 20 questions to find out if college kids know a damn thing about anything.

Okay, you— we talked about this on Dennis and Julie. I have a list.

Oh good, let's go through that.

We go together. I'll just— we'll do it. I'll call you. Tonight. Yes.

Oh, by the way, have I— did I reflect with you, I think, on, on my Gospels time?

No, wait, so much to talk about. I know.

All right, everybody, here she is. Say the goodbyes.

Well, why don't you try to say them? Goodbye. You can email me at julie@julie-hartman.com. You can follow me on Instagram and Twitter if you want to see my pictures from Rome, my limited pictures. Right. Because I was in the present. And you can follow Dennis on Instagram @TheDennisPrager and on Twitter @DennisPrager. And we'll see you next Sunday at 1:00 Pacific, 4:00 Eastern, right here on the Julie Hartman YouTube channel.

Bye, everybody.

Shalom.

Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure. Why? Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions? And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot survive without objective morality and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world. If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect Affirming God. If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.