Defining Dignity

This is the story of the one. As a maintenance tech at a university, he knows ordering from multiple suppliers takes time away from keeping their arena up and running. That's why he counts on Grainger to get everything he needs, from lighting and HVAC parts to plumbing supplies, all in one place. And with fast, dependable delivery, he's stocked and ready for the next tip-off. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Well, hello everybody, Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Dennis and Julie. And for those of you who think it's sex that my name comes first. What's my answer to that?

You would be shocked, by the way, as to how many people ask me if I care.

I'm like, okay, sure. But you are now privy to exactly why it is useless for us to ever think of a subject.

Oh, I think they're privy by now because— okay, to this.

That you can't— it is not— it's not possible for you to know how many thoughts I have on what you just said.

I think it is possible, actually.

You're probably right.

I think 3, maybe 4. Maybe I have one thought on it, but you can finish.

No, no, no, I want to hear your one thought.

People focus on stupid things. They get upset about stupid things.

Okay, fine.

Why would you care? We have covered the First of all, it's alphabetical.

Okay.

And it's seniority, right?

Yes, it's seniority. It's not alphabetical. Yeah, it's seniority. That's exactly right. More for, for pretty obvious reasons. More people know my name than yours. One day more people will know your name than mine.

Speak for yourself. I think a lot of people know my name.

A lot of people do. I just said more.

So many millions, scores of millions. Everywhere I go, it is gonna cost me.

Okay, I don't want— I don't think we should do the whole hour on this, or hour and 15 minutes, but I'm tempted to. Don't get me wrong, I just— I'm very angry, actually. These are fine people, I have no doubt. We don't have jerks listening to our show. We don't attract foolish people, but the Which makes the question even more sad that nice, thoughtful people would think to ask that.

See, you know, I actually think it's an icebreaker.

Okay.

I think sometimes people don't know what to ask. All right. So they— it's like a jokey icebreaker, which is fine.

Oh, no, no, no. If it's joking, down for the jokey icebreaker, not an issue. But I believe a lot of people would ask that question with seriousness.

Well, you tell the story, and I think of this often. Where when David, your son, had his first son Daniel, you and your ex-wife were talking about the names that you would have. And obviously she's Grandma, but her husband wanted to be Grandpa. And you said, okay, fine, be Grandpa. I'll be— what are you?

Poppy.

Poppy. Yeah. And I, and I love that because it's like, why would you get upset about it? Just let it go. Let it go.

And by the way, it's Funny you should mention that because there were people who said to me, why did you give him the name?

Who cares? I can't conceptualize how someone would care. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change that you're their grandpa.

That's right. Yes.

I call my mom's dad Pop Ed, or he's been dead for 15 years, but I used to call him Pop Ed.

Pop Ed.

Pop Ed. Yeah.

Yeah. As in op-ed.

As an op-ed.

Yeah.

So you had a subject?

Yes, I did have a subject. I just want to say one more thing on your subject. People really do choose to make themselves miserable. See, this is my whole theme about happiness, is my whole theme about most, most of life is a choice. And people don't think of it that way. I'm not commenting on the people who say this to you. It might be an icebreaker, it might be fun for them to ask, and I totally respect that. It's a non-issue. But there are many people who would seriously ask it and be annoyed, especially feminists. They would think—

Oh, that my name isn't first.

Yes, they would think that there was a sexist element, or one week it should be Dennis and Julie, and the next week Julie and Dennis. You know, some, or Dooley.

Yep.

This is the Dooley Podcast. So that it's both our names.

You know what, I just thought of an example that I actually think a good amount of people could relate to. And it's when I have practiced the who cares mentality. So I have a group of friends and we go out to dinner pretty frequently. And I am often the one who makes the reservation. By the way, you know what bothers me? But again, it's another example of just letting it go. When people say, you know, we should really go to XYZ.

And they assume you'll pay.

Yeah. Or no, no, no, not pay, but plan it. And you know what I started to say? I say, okay, we means me. We should make a reservation. We should book XYZ. I go, okay, we means me. So we know, we know.

It's like when my trainer says, okay, so our next exercise.

Yeah, it's like you're, you're sitting there watching.

Yeah, right.

So I have a group of friends and we go out fairly frequently, and I'm often the one who makes the reservation. And maybe I should just, you know, one day go, okay, sure, yes, we should go to XYZ and hold off. But I'm a planner and I'm a get stuff done kind of person, so I am often late. Not terribly late, but usually about 5 to 10 minutes late. And I always notice that they take the best seats. If we're, if there's a booth and then there are two chairs on the outside, they'll go in and they'll take the booth.

Right.

And that used to kind of, to use my favorite term, which I know people know, but Dennis thinks it's unique to me, frost my cookies. It used to kind of—

One minute, Sean.

I know we do this every time.

We do.

Yeah, we do. We've done this like three times.

And while— all right, wait, what was his answer? If we've done the 3 times, his answer was no, that's a Julie term.

But then people have written in to me that they know it to be a term.

One minute. He's not alone. Zach. Zach.

Zach. Zach's going to sign the nails.

You're already already anticipating. He has never heard the term. And Zach is younger than you.

No, he's not.

How old are you, Zach? I'm 32. Oh, all right. He's 7 years older than you.

Yeah.

What about Rick? Did Rick ever hear Frost My Cookies?

Oh, Rick, Rick, Rick, Rick. I knew I always liked you.

Rick just wants to call favor with you. It's so obvious. Okay.

Yes.

All right. And anyway, yeah.

So they would take the best seats and they are— or will show up at the same time and I'll be the one to make the reservation and they'll go in. And I remember thinking, that's a little rude. Like, I think I would. We should rotate, or you should maybe— yeah, anyway, I just thought one day after like the 6th time of them taking the good seats, I thought, so what? Who cares? Why would you let this ruin your whole dinner? Because I used to sit there for 20 minutes and think like, oh, they've, they've got the pillow behind them and they this, and I made the reservation. And then I thought, let it go. They're great.

By the way, there would be nothing wrong. I'm totally on board with just let the stuff roll. Okay. But there would be nothing wrong. And I'll bet they would not at all be offended if you said, hey guys, next time please reserve the pillow and cushion for me. They— I'm sure it would be a non-issue, although it is women. So I—

Yeah, women, women microaggress each other all the time and then we never let it go.

Right. Exactly. That's what keeps you up at night.

Yes. But there is such a power in just letting it go. You're only harming yourself.

Okay, so this is what I have in mind. So it's— there are two huge themes that I'm— that one is so personal that I hope people appreciate that I'm raising it for altruistic reasons and not self-centered reasons. And the other is obviously just a big issue. So I, just yesterday I was in New York City and I gave a speech at an important conference about Israel. And a guy comes over to me and he goes, do you remember who I am? And I vaguely, vaguely did. But it has been essentially a half a century.

Oh, wow. Who was it?

I can't say because— Oh, yeah, I would love to say, but I can't because you'll understand in a moment. I was thrilled to see him. I have only warm memories of him from college. And He gave me his card and I was so happy to see him. I texted him from the airplane. The first moment that I had was sitting on the plane, getting, getting ready to take off back to L.A. from New York. So I texted him. So what did I text him? I go, let's see, in a few minutes before takeoff, bring me a bit up to date. Married, children, grandchildren. A medical test can reveal your body's biological age, which can show if you're aging prematurely. Better nutrition has been shown to reverse one's bio-age. My hope in this regard of living a longer and healthier life is why I take Field of Greens. Yes, I take it. I would never endorse it if I didn't. Field of Greens is an organic superfood fruit and vegetable drink Unlike any other, Field of Greens was approved through a university study that doctors believe may lower your body's biological age. That means better health. Each ingredient in Field of Greens was doctor-selected to support vital bodily functions like heart, liver, kidneys, metabolism, and immune system. And only Field of Greens promises at your next checkup, your doctor will notice your improved health. Or your money back. That's quite remarkable. Join me in better health with 15% off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use the promo code Dennis. That's code Dennis at fieldofgreens.com. Fieldofgreens.com. So he described his children, that he'd been divorced, and so on. Okay. Then a second text came in from him. Yeah. Sad to say, but the happiest time of my life were the student years, and our friendship was most prominent. That was the whole— that was the entire message. So there were two things. I did the whole Happiness Hour on this question. What were the happiest years of your life?

Oh, wow. It's a good one.

Oh, it was so good. It was painful to have to say goodbye before I took all— all the lines were filled with fascinating calls. So I have, I have two subjects here. The— that one, I have, I have insight that'll be helpful. Because again, thanks to the calls, people don't know how I've cheated, so to speak, in life.

Your human laboratory.

Yes, my human laboratory of a talk show. You know, people say, well, radio is fading because young kids don't hear. It's too bad. It's a huge loss. There is nothing like it. The greatest podcasts don't duplicate talk radio. True.

You're right.

Okay.

Anyway, and may I just interject, whenever I guest host for you, I am blown away actually by the reach. I have done shows. I did a show on Iraq and Iran and I had Iraqis calling in and Persians calling in. I'll have 90-year-olds, 18-year-olds.

There is no group.

It's crazy. Oh my gosh. I've had a—

and when would you—

people calling?

Yes. Trans people. So when would you ever have a chance to talk to such people? Exactly.

It's really cool.

Yes, I love it. That's why I don't intend to give it up until, God forbid, life forces me to. Okay, so that's one theme. The other was what he added in parentheses: and our friendship was most prominent. So in other words, I was the most responsible for the happiness of his years. That we knew each other. I, Dennis, was the most responsible, was the biggest reason those were his happiest years. So very, very, I was very moved by— are you with me?

You look puzzled. No, no, I'm with you.

Okay. So I decided, I told Alan, I want to do a Happiness Hour on the subject. Do you think that because you are in people's lives, they are happier? That is a huge question for people to ask. Maybe we should— you— which one do you want to start with?

So the first one is the happiest years of your life.

And the second is insights that I want to share with the first.

Okay, let's go in order.

Okay. So it was fantastic. So people would call in. So like one caller, I don't even remember, man or woman, caller, the happiest years of my life— oh no, it was a guy— when I fell in love with my wife and we had our first children. So I asked him, I said, I'm just curious, Did you think then these are the happiest years of my life?

What did he say?

No.

That, that is quite common. I, the happiest years of my life. I wanna know yours. I think you're in them. I think these are the happiest years of your life.

Uh, I will comment in a moment.

Well, what are you wishing for? I actually, I, I already know the answer is yes.

Okay. What are you, are you in?

Mine were in college. My senior year of college was the happiest year of my life, bar none. So fun. I was with— I was in this amazing dorm. I had 5— living with 5 of my best friends. We had so many social events. I was like, I was constantly surrounded by people. We'd launched our show out of my dorm room. It was— we were back from COVID It was so fun. And when I was in it, I realized— I did realize it, but few people do. And now that I look back, few people do what? Few people, when they're in it, realize that that was You— I know you're going to bring this up, but I'm beating you to the punch. You and your friends have done something for years, which I think is incredible. You will end your Shabbat lunches by saying, these are the good old days. I love that. I love the awareness of that.

30 years.

Yes. Because what you don't want is to have them pass you by.

Well, that's exactly right. Turned out to be a huge theme of my posing the question that people didn't know. Yes. And again, I, I feel bad in a sense, bad saying it because I, A, I don't want people to think I haven't had pain. I've had plenty. B, I don't want people to think that I I'm just boasting about the happy life that I have, but I was blessed with the pursuit of wisdom from a very early age, and I knew you've got to appreciate it while you have it.

Happiness, you mean?

No, it, anything, health.

Yes.

It doesn't matter what it is. Anything. That's why I have perspective and most things don't get me down because I say, well, wait a minute, what, what do I have to celebrate? And it's much bigger than what I have to mourn.

Well, this is also where unhappy years or times of unhappiness can actually be a blessing because it makes you appreciate the happy times more. I told all of you last week that I'm studying for the LSAT these days during that that episode, which by the way, we got such a big response to the whole special privileges notion, which has run rampant in our society. But let me tell you, I appreciated when I was spending the bulk of my time reading great books. Now I am redoubled in my appreciation for when I'm not reading that stuff. And it's weird. I mean, if the only utility of studying for the LSAT is that I gain an appreciation for when I'm not studying for the LSAT. That makes it worth it. Honest to God, that makes it worth it, because now I am so excited for when I can read anything but that. But, um, you're— I think you're in the happy years now. And you're— and you're so great too, because you— not you and your friends not only say these are the good old— good old days. That's right.

Yeah.

When Whenever— and I listen to you on the radio say this, and I know that it's not a throwaway line. I know you really mean it. Someone will call and they'll say, God bless you, Dennis.

And you'll go, he has my standard response. Well, before getting to me, because I'm really secondary in this particular matter, my role is bigger in the second subject that I wanted to raise. I want people to appreciate what they have while they have it. You know, it's so funny because whenever I see kids go, if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands, I'm always thinking, this is a great song. Because if you don't know it—

only, only Dennis would make a philosophical takeaway from a kid's song.

Oh, it's huge. If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. Most people don't clap their hands. They don't know they're happy. They only know it later when they— when it's no longer there. So you, you sort of blown it. Yes, you must celebrate what you have when you have it.

And even, might I add, if you don't— if you feel like the, the, the time that you're living in, in your life is not ultimately what you want. And, and I, I kind of feel that way right now. I'm not married, I don't have kids. I, you know, there are things about my life that I want to improve. I still— I was driving the other day and I was— sometimes, as you know, I, I overthink. I go, oh, well, will this happen? Will that happen? Am I on the right track? I'll go, you know what, Julie, enjoy the era that you're in now.

Oh, well, what you just said is so important. That's why when people with their 5-year plans— I have never had a 2-month plan.

You've probably never had a 2-week plan.

That is correct.

You are very in the moment.

That's, that's right.

You are. I admire it very much. But I mean, I was thinking, I was like, you know, Julie, if you're going to waste all this time worrying about the next move, or, you know, what will XYZ happen, What if XYZ happens and God forbid your parents die, or God forbid you lose your job, or God forbid XYZ? And then you're like, oh great, now I'm at the thing I've always wanted, but then I didn't appreciate when I had—

I mean, that's good.

Yes, it is. No, I really think about that and I go, you know what, life— you told me about this book and I am quite intrigued and I hope to read it. Necessary Losses.

Oh yeah.

Oh That, that one really was a zinger. You said that in a D&J and I went, whoa, can you repeat?

Yes. Judith Viorst. It's amazing that I remember the title and the name. And she was a total liberal. I didn't agree with her on any macro issue, but I don't care. There's a great Hebrew saying, mikol milam dai hiskalti. I have— I became wise from everyone who taught me. It is such a beautiful—

what a nice aphorism.

Oh, it's awesome.

Go through aphorisms.

Aphorisms raised me.

I know.

I am the product of aphorisms.

And they're dead.

They're dead.

I discovered aphorisms when I read Bill Bennett's Book of Virtues and I went, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, I had all these Hebrew aphorisms and they have continued to be the guideposts of my life.

The easily embarrassed don't learn. You told me that one.

Yes. Isn't that a great one?

Yeah, it is.

It's great. Anyway, so the book by this woman is The Nature of Everyone's Life is to Go Through Necessary Losses. See, the genius of her book is the word necessary. So, for example, you, you love your kids on the assumption that you do and you enjoy them, which is a big leap of faith. But, and then they leave the house. That's a great example, right? Forever. Hopefully, by the way. Hopefully they leave your house forever.

Right, you raise them to leave you.

Yes, but so that's a classic example of a necessary loss.

Right, and you said when you grow up you're losing your innocence and then when you—

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When you said that on Dennis and Julie, It became a permanent fixture of my thinking, really. And I hope to read the book because I thought that is so astute. And it's actually, it's a little sad. It's actually quite sad. But it's, if you think that way, it actually serves you. And so I think my—

No, it is sad. She acknowledges it's sad. It's not fortunate.

It is sad, but life is that. But I think right now, and I think my example is hopefully a helpful one, I think there are things about my life, if I could wave a magic wand, I would want to have. But I'm so lucky right now that I'm in this stage. I don't want to— I want to live fully through this stage.

Are you?

Yes, I am. And it's a choice. It harkens back to the way we— the way that we opened this episode. It's a choice. Yeah, because I thought, Julie, you're young, your parents are alive, you, you know— I mean, I was talking with a friend the other day and I said, isn't it cool that the most important people in our lives we haven't met yet? Our spouse, our children, some of our—

Well, who, who, who, when you say our, you're, who, who are you including?

I was talking with a friend who's my age.

Oh, I see. Okay, fine.

And I said, you know, I was talking with someone, Robert Florczak, who we haven't mentioned on the show. We, we did like 30 episodes where we mentioned him every episode in a row and we haven't mentioned him, uh, lately, but he has this really insightful line about life. And he said, picture a seesaw and the fulcrum in the middle. He said, there's a point in life where you are thinking primarily about the future. Oh, well, let me back up. I said, I asked him one time, I said, how do you, what is, how do you know that you're old? Or what is the definition of old? Is it when you hit 30? Is it when you hit 40? And he said, there's, there's a time in your life where you're primarily thinking about the future. And then there is a time when if you picture the fulcrum, it goes over the edge and you're thinking primarily about the past. And that is when you get old. And that alongside your necessary losses.

Well, that would be a necessary loss. Totally.

And I thought, you know what, Julie, you are so lucky because you are not close yet to that fulcrum going over. You are, you are thinking all about possibilities. And so I actually feel quite happy.

Well, so I want to address that because obviously the old part— so first of all, I, I don't know how much I thought about the future when I was young.

Really? Yeah, surprises me.

I, I'm not saying I didn't. I'm just trying to imagine. As— remember I told you I never had a 5-year plan, and you said, no, you don't have a 2-day plan.

2-week.

2-week. Okay, well, I— so that's— so that by definition means to a certain extent I'm not thinking much about the future.

I think you— I, I mean, I know you always wanted to get married.

Yeah, so you're right, you're right. That's obvious. Okay, but I got married at 32, so there's a lot of years after 32 in your life if you, if you you don't die prematurely. I don't think a lot about the past, and I don't think a lot about— I think about both. I'm not crazy, and it wouldn't be healthy not to. But I, I, I so celebrate today, which you know to be true.

Oh, yes.

That it's Anyway, it's just, it's an interest. I have to ask myself, I have to think about that. How much do I think about the past and how much do I think about the future? But it's not to say that his point is not valid. Look, if you really want a difference, I'll tell you one big difference. When you get old, you read the obituary columns. When I, and I remember I was told this at your age and I had your reaction because I never read the obituary column. Skipped over them in the newspaper.

When, you know, Christmas is coming up and if you're looking for a good book to give to someone, perhaps not someone who's very old, but someone in mid-age, The New York Times— I hate to endorse or recommend buying anything from The New York Times. They have a fantastic book, which is a compilation of famous people's obituaries. That is a good gift.

And why did you get it? That is interesting.

I thought it— I, I thought it's a cool thing to learn. I actually— you may find this to be odd— I actually do read the obituary section because I, I am interested by, by how people describe the deceased. And you can really tell if the person writing the obituary liked the person or if they didn't. I read one— my, my friend's grandmother died like a year ago, and her mother who was the daughter-in-law of the grandmother. So it wasn't her mother, it was her mother-in-law, wrote the obituary. And it was so shady. It was so— it was like a description of her life. And then there was some line like, you know, she loved— she had a flair for style and all who knew her knew that she dressed very well. It was like—

it's like a Jewish joke about a guy dies and there is absolutely nothing positive. The guy was a crook. And the rabbi has nothing good to say about him. The relatives have nothing good to say about him. Finally, some guy gets up and he goes, I just want to say his brother was worse.

You know, speaking of obituaries and on this subject too, I had a life-changing experience in Westminster Abbey about a year and a half ago. I actually grew up going to London fairly frequently and I would always go to Westminster Abbey and I go back. It's like a pilgrimage site for me. And one time when I went this last August, I decided to go off the beaten path. You know, they take you on the tours where you go to the Queen and the King's memorial and Charles Dickens Memorial and all these Newton's Memorial and Darwin. And I said, I'm going to go in like the side corridors. Where the anonymous people are buried and just check it out. And I am telling you, Dennis, that changed my life because I looked at the inscriptions of their graves. And these are 17th, 18th, sometimes 19th century deceased individuals. And the way that they were described made me so wish that I knew them. Oh, I can't even tell you how, how incredible they were. And it made me think, do people like this exist anymore? And do people who would know how to capture a person like this exist anymore? Because it's not just that the individuals must have been great, if we can take their inscriptions at their word, but the person writing the inscription had to have the kind of character to identify those individuals.

Do you have a rough summary of what they were? Yes.

Oh my God, I could pull them up now, but I could—

Yeah, no, I think that'd be very interesting.

Give me a minute. Yeah.

What did you do? You photographed it?

Oh, I was like, I was there for 8 hours and I photographed all of them and I was crying.

So are these inscriptions on the coffins or? Yes.

And also they're, oh God, they're incredible. Oh, I have them right here. This is good. Okay. And think about how much you wish you knew this person. Okay. Okay, hold on. Piety to God and benevolence to man were the principles which occupied his thoughts and directed his life. Actuated by a lively sense of religion, he enjoyed that serenity of mind and cheerfulness of temper by which Christianity is so particularly distinguished. His extensive bounties were dispensed with liberal but secret magnificence, seldom disclosing even to whom they received the source once they flowed. Public institutions, distressed individuals, and private friends experienced the benefit of his well-regulated economy. Beautiful. Here's another one. This is someone who died at age 20 of something. I know that's very descriptive. Susanna Jane Davidson. Her form, the most elegant and lovely, was adorned by the native purity and simplicity of her mind, which was improved by every accomplishment education could bestow. It pleased the Almighty to visit her in the bloom of her life with a lingering and painful disease, which she endured with the fortitude and Christian resignation. She died at Paris, January 1st, 1767, age 20.

Well, among other things, it just reminds me of how much more literate and elegant their language was.

Of course it's painful, but, but even think about that girl who died at 20. What did they say? She endured it with fortitude and resignate. I mean, that's a— that is a sign of someone's character, the way that they—

no, clearly they face—

they face death.

Um, well, especially at 20.

But even the other one that I read, I mean—

No, I agree.

Oh, and then this one writes about, um, brave and zealous in his military duties, animated by a strong feeling of piety to God, and distinguished by his ardent filial affection and duty towards a widowed mother. He has left to her the recollection of his rising virtues as her only consolation.

Wow, that's powerful.

So powerful.

And I'm telling you, Dennis, did everybody catch that? In other words, all he— he died, but he left her memories of his virtue.

How— how— what a lovely way that is said. Yes, his ardent filial attachment and duty towards a widowed mother. By the way, even that I love. Okay. Oh wow, I'm missing the whole thing. Here's what I realized when I— when I was reading these. They didn't say how rich the person was. They didn't say where they went to college. They didn't say what, what profession they had, or, you know, how many, or even how many children, or their pronouns, or their race, or any of that. It was, it was all about it. It was all about their character, and crucially, the way they handled a challenge, including— that's just one more time— and distinguished by his ardent filial affection and duty towards a widowed mother. How cool that they would include that as a description of character. He has left—

major description.

Yes, he has left to her the recollection of his rising virtues as her only consolation. So I read— I was going around, I was so moved, I was crying reading these inscriptions to people I had never known. And I thought, boy, I wish I had— I wish I could know these people. And I hope that that's how I'm described.

Well, back to our, our first subject. So we resolved it is critical to appreciate what you have when you have it.

It sounds like a cliché, but people don't do it, even if you're in an unhappy or an unfulfilled—

well, yeah, it doesn't mean you deny what is painful. That, that's, that's not noble to be in denial. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? So I'd like to tell you why I chose PhD Weight Loss and Nutrition. First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition. The program is science-based. The PhD program starts with nutrition and is much more. They know 90% of permanent change comes from the mind and and they work on eliminating reasons you gained weight in the first place. There are no shortcuts, no pills, no injections, just solid science, science-based nutrition and behavior change. If you're ready to lose weight for, I think, the last time, call 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900 to get started. Or online at myphdweightloss.com. myphdweightloss.com. Just make the appointment for your one-on-one consultation. Call today, 864-644-1900. Although you— there's this fine line between preoccupation and denial. There is some happy medium, you know. I am suffering. Look, I had it. It's well known to the public that, you know, I had a child who was addicted for many years, and he was in effect lost to me, although we had contact, but he was lost to me for years. And if you'd have met me, you would have not known.

I believe that.

I know, I know you believe it, and you would be right to believe it. My listeners are proof. I did a happiness hour for years with pain. That's why I periodically remind people, pain is not the same thing as unhappiness.

Hmm. What do you mean?

It just isn't. You can— every unhappy person has had pain. If pain invalidated happiness, very few people could say that they're happy. Pain is— the opposite of happiness is unhappiness, not pain.

Do you ever look around at random people and wonder what the cost they're bearing is?

Well, I'll tell you that the— this will humanize me even further, which is fine. So I remember at the most painful moments of my life driving on a freeway in California, looking at all the cars going in the other direction, thinking, they don't have problems. I have problems.

So easy.

And I knew, of course it is. Well, that's the great, you know, the Helen Zeluskin line, right?

Yes. Yes.

The only happy people I know are people I don't know well.

Well, here's another consolation. And it harkens back to even if you're in a period that you wish were different, appreciate the era that you're in. I had a friend say to me recently that we were talking about, we were talking about if something romantically would percolate for one of us. I forget, this was a few months ago. And she said this on both of the individual's ends, the situation is evolving. And I thought, I love that word evolving. Because a consolation for you in your life is that life is always changing. You are not going to be in the same place a year from now as you are today. Because you, you hopefully you're endeavoring to do better with your life, but also things around you are changing. Like, you could get a call that you're fired from your job, or you could get a call that you're transferred, or you could get a call from another company. Like, Life is constantly evolving around you. Hopefully not just you, but, but other people. And you actually don't know what could happen for the better or for the worse. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, of course.

And so people go, oh God, I'm going to be stuck in this forever. That's not true.

So, you know, another— what's not an aphorism, but it's related. You know, the King Solomon story on the magic ring?

Yes. Can you recite it?

Yeah, well, he asked his magicians for a magic ring that would uplift him when he got low and bring him back to earth if he got too high. So they made him a ring with 3 Hebrew words. In English, they're 4. This too shall pass. Gam zu yavor. And that is the nature of life. This too shall pass. The good will— I think about this when I watch athletes. So, you know, you're, you've made the professional highest level in football and basketball and baseball, hockey, whatever it might be. And this will pass. The life of an athlete is very, very limited, really limited. And so really take it every, every game that you play, take it in. Don't, don't, don't treat it as a, oh well, another day, another game. You know, look, I wrote a book on happiness. I think about it a lot because I really do believe if everyone were happy, there would be almost no evil in the world. That's how powerful happiness is. So I, I was thinking they just played the World Series. Did you follow this at all?

A little.

Okay.

I know. I know the Dodgers won, right?

Okay. So it's actually— it doesn't even— it doesn't even matter because what I'm going to say is generic. So when the team that wins the championship, whichever sport it is, is going crazy and they have a right to, they have worked so hard for this. This reward. So they won the World Series, they won the Stanley Cup, or they won the Super Bowl. Right. Okay. So the periodically the cameramen will focus on the losing team who are invariably either left the stadium or they're just watching. And they're— if you saw their face, you would think they're watching their mother being buried.

Yes, it's true.

And by the way, I don't say this condescendingly. I totally get their unhappiness. But the question is, for how many will the following become a reality? I can't believe how lucky I am that I made it into professional sports, that I'm being paid to play baseball, being paid A, a lot of money to play baseball. B, that I am a regular player for a major league team. C, that I got into the playoffs. D, I got into the World Series. Do you know how few people can ever say anything comparable? Yeah, it's infinitesimally small.

You got to do it.

But their unhappiness at that moment is genuine. I'm not knocking them. But that is why you need perspective or you can't be happy, because within a couple of days, anybody on the losing team has to be healthy and say, wow, I am really lucky.

You know, I know I, I acknowledge that if I have brought this up once, I have brought this up 50 times. But I'm telling you, when I did a show a few months ago on the statistical anomaly of our being born, that one sperm meeting that one egg to make you. I swear to God, my life, my, my daily life, my minute-to-minute life changed.

Really?

Yes, it really—

no, I, I remember you raising that issue. I didn't know what—

50 times.

Yeah, but I didn't realize what an effect it had on you.

It had a huge effect on me because your chances of being born are 1 in 400 trillion. Let me repeat, 1 in 400 trillion, right?

Almost impossible that you'll be born.

I mean, people say, oh well, it's like winning the lottery. No, no, no, it's, it's how you can't actually even conceptualize it. And I thought, whoa, that is incredible. And it's so cool that I am one of those people that's here. And now I look at life and I go, you know what, Julie, let's say let's say things don't work out for you. Let's say you don't achieve your biggest hopes and dreams personally and professionally. At least you got a shot. At least you can come here and you can try. And it's given me also this kind of liberation where I'm like, you know what? I have this, I have this. When I started Timeless, I, I had this visual and I, I now have extended it not just to the on-air life, but to my whole life of every day, someone throwing me a ball. And I picture myself being the batter and I'm just like, I'm just gonna take the biggest swing. And some days the ball's gonna go like that. Some days it's gonna be a home run. Sometimes it's gonna hit the ground.

Sometimes you won't even touch it.

Sometimes I'll miss. But you know what? I'm like, I am so lucky that I got here.

You got up.

And I got up. I can just do it.

By the way, it's funny. I can give a personal example I live by what I preach. I really— you know that. And by the way, I will acknowledge my preaching has affected me. Everyone who speaks publicly will acknowledge they're also speaking to themselves. So, and I totally acknowledge it on the happiness or any other theme. So I was in the permanent position, all of my broadcast career. I've never said this to you, I don't think, of the World Series losing team. Yeah. So in, in my profession of talk radio, I made, I made it to the World Series. I had a national radio show. I mean, that's, that's getting into the World Series. Is that fair to say?

For sure.

Okay. Right. But I never won the World Series because I was up against Rush Limbaugh. That's right. Who had way more stations, way more listeners as a result, and incredibly higher income. And I would happily take a lie detector test, put my hand on Bibles, whatever would convince people. There wasn't a day in my life that I was jealous or resented it. Actually, I was happy that he had a big audience because he was conservative and I wanted him to influence people. And I just thought, you know, Dennis, there are— I don't know, let's say at that time, 300 million Americans. You know how many have a national radio show?

Totally.

On prime time, because in radio prime time is during the day, television prime time is in the evening. And so how many— I mean, there were 3-hour increments: 6 to 9, 9 to 12, 12 to 3, 3 to 6. That's basically it. So there were 4 talk show hosts. Multiply it maybe by 3, maybe 12 of us. Made it to the World Series every year. I was one of them year after year. And that's all I could think of. Wow, am I lucky. Not Limbaugh is beating me.

By the way, did you ever know him?

Oh, yeah.

What was he like?

Very, very— he was not an arrogant man in any— and he certainly theoretically, so to speak, he could have been. But, but he was not at all. He was very down to earth.

I—

he couldn't have been warmer to me. On occasion, he would mention me on the air and he always had his best cigar for me. Oh, yeah.

How nice.

Well, the Wall Street Journal asked me to write the piece assessing his life for the Wall Street Journal.

How cool.

Yeah.

So there was another thing, by the way.

I did a very noble thing. I just want you to— sure, I, I am prepared to say this publicly. A medical test can reveal your body's biological age, which can show if you're aging prematurely. Better nutrition has been shown to reverse one's bio age. My hope in this regard of living a longer and healthier life is why I take Field of Greens. Yes, I take it. I would never endorse it if I didn't. Field of Greens is an organic superfood fruit and vegetable drink unlike any other. Field of Greens was approved through a university study that doctors believe may lower your body's biological age. That means better health. Each ingredient in Field of Greens was doctor-selected to support vital bodily functions like heart, liver, kidneys, metabolism, and immune system. And only Field of Greens promises at your next checkup, your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. That's quite remarkable. Join me in better health with 15% off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use the promo code Dennis That's codeDennis@fieldofgreens.com. Fieldofgreens.com. It would have been the most natural thing for me to write as the, as the quote-unquote competitor with my own national show at the exact same hours of Rush Limbaugh. I want to add how much I appreciated him, but I thought the only reason I would have written that was to gain listeners, and therefore I didn't write.

Why? Why would that— I don't follow. Why would that have been?

Because that's, that's why I wanted to write it. You're right. Oh, to indicate, to spread, to let people know, yes, I'm on at that time, folks.

So let me play devil's advocate. Let's say, why, why would that be bad?

So, okay, so this is a this is a sort of issue I have never overcome, and I'm totally at peace with it. Anything that smacks of self-promotion, yes, I avoid.

Okay. You know what? And people know this, and I admit that it is a fault of mine. I admit it. I I hate social media. I hate it. I don't use it a lot. I don't use it as much as I should, given that I have a talk show. For some reason, there's something that just strikes me as yucky about using it too much. I use it sometimes, and I think it's— I mean, I discovered PragerU online. I mean, I'm very grateful for social media. It's a great tool. I'm totally anti. But, you know, once, once a week or twice a week, I mean, I'll post something that I think is useful, a good highlight of our show. But there are some people, and, you know, God bless them, they have big followings and they post many times a day. And I— there's something that's just like bizarre about that to me. I don't even care about myself and what I have to say that much to, to post something 3 times a day.

So it's just, it's this weird, like, for those of you have been regular listeners of mine prior to— yeah, and Julie. So let me just say, this is a, this is another example. It happens almost every show. Things are brought out of me that cannot be brought out of me by me.

Yep.

But in dialogue with someone else, they can be. So, uh, I, I probably, I probably pay a price. No, I do. I know. I know I pay a price, but I'm willing to pay the price. The thing about my own life that matters most to me is realness. Yeah, well, close. It's not what I'm thinking. Of course that's true. Dignity.

Well, that's our favorite word.

The role of dignity. Hold on one second. It's my own child.

Hey, you know what? Pick it up and put him on speakerphone.

Yeah, that would be great. Well, I have had him on, but I— the role I should write an essay once, the role of dignity in my life. By the way, it is also my— the way I deal with others. When I started radio, people would write to me, you know, you never put down a caller. You, even when they say something stupid, you respect them. And it's true. And of course, because preserving people's dignity— one of the reasons I loathe the left is that they rob people of dignity. The 'we will take care of you' is the most undignified place you could be in life. Isn't the greatest fear people have as they get older that I won't be independent, right? So why do— why is it a virtue to be dependent upon the state when you're young?

Okay, well, this is my whole— this is my whole thing about social media. Dignity is really the right word. I see influencers and I'm going to be hard on them for a minute. And by the way, I— two, two things can be true at once. I can be hard on them, but also recognize that they have immense utility. They do. In reaching people. And so for that reason, I, I support them. But, you know, sometimes people say to me, you should do these TikTok videos, or you should do these reaction videos, or you should— and I'm like, I feel like I'd look like a clown.

So I, I so knew that, you know, I knew this about you.

Really?

Yeah. You know how?

How?

Because you're me. You look like a clown. We are so— this is why we have such One of the many reasons we have such a bond. I knew that about—

are you like—

I knew it. I assumed it because it's so animating in my life. I assumed it's animating in yours.

Why would I look like a clown? I'm sorry.

People don't care if they look like—

I mean, that is so anathema to me. I can't even tell you. I would not be able to sleep. They go put up a picture or put up a video of a drag queen twerking in front of a child and then do the whole— oh my God. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to look like a stupid person if I do. And that doesn't mean you can't react to a video, but to do the whole, you know, expression and the whole outrage, I would feel like I am a puppeteer and someone is like pulling the strings behind me and I have this theatrical reaction. It's stupid. Also, I really endeavor in my role in public life I want to elevate my own intellect and character and other people's intellect and character. And doing these stupid reaction videos where we're, you know, expressing outrage, I don't think that achieves that. And also, you know, there are people who say that, you know, they advise me, they go, oh, you should just do more your comments on something, you know, post 2 times a day your reaction to a news story. You know what my response is? What if I don't have a reaction? Or what if what I have to say isn't contributing anything? I'm not just going to post, you know, let's say Trump— something happens with Trump. I'm not just going to post and give some stupid comment that everybody else is giving just to get my face in front of people. And you know what? I acknowledge that's probably harmed me, but it goes back to that dignity issue. I want people to associate me with someone who is serious, who is thoughtful. And when I open my mouth, it's because I actually have something good to say.

I know it. I knew it and I assumed it. I— did I ever tell you about my anti-cheating campaign in high school?

Yeah, you have. And I was on the honor council at Harvard and at my high school, too.

I believe that.

So interesting, by the way. Boy, forgive me. I wish I could talk about—

I wish you could.

I wish I could talk about the stuff that people would pull.

You can't?

No.

Even without names?

Um, I think that's a good question.

Yeah, I don't know why not. So did I ever tell you? I don't think I did, but I don't even think I've ever mentioned this in public. Not that I've hidden it, but it again, it doesn't come out until unless you're in a dialogue. So I started an anti-cheating on test campaign in high school. By the way, it had a very big impact on me. You know how?

Why?

See, this I've never told you either. I was elected the president of the graduating class. So there were— we were 4 classes. So I was— the 4 classes, their vote, they vote together for the president of the whole graduating class. I was elected. And I remember thinking, that's really interesting. They did not resent me for my anti-cheating campaign. And that's when I realized something very important about myself. I could, I could, in effect, try to improve people ethically and not be resented for it.

So what was your pitch to them?

I will tell you in a moment. I just— that was a sidebar to the point I want to make. This will blow your mind, or I think it'll blow your mind. There were two— I'm debating whether they were equally important or it was 55-45— reasons that I didn't cheat on tests in high school. One was I just thought it was immoral and I wanted to be a moral human being. Okay. So that was the obvious one. But there was one that was as important. Maybe it dropped less, maybe it dropped more. Dignity. A completely non-moral, non-religious reason that I didn't cheat on tests in high school was it compromised my dignity. I thought of Dennis Prager is higher than he will cheat on a test. I would have so compromised my own worth in my own eyes I couldn't do it. Does that make sense?

It totally does, because I have also had that very innate, strong sense of dignity. But as you were speaking, I was wondering, where does that come from?

Why? Built in.

It is built. You're right. It's built in.

But why? That's why I don't even take credit for it.

Why do you think that you associated your— you had such a high— you had such a a strong attachment to your, to your own worth?

Oh, ethical worth.

Yes. Why do you think?

Yeah, I don't know.

And also, hard question. How would you define dignity?

Yeah, I never thought of defining it.

No, it's, it's, it's really hard to explain what it is and where it comes from.

Well, it's uniquely human. There's no such thing as my dog has dignity. That's a stupid comment. Your dog doesn't have dignity, nor is it necessary for your dog to have dignity. That's why your dog will poop in front of everybody, and unless you teach them otherwise, they'll poop in your house. That— it's a uniquely human thing. And by the way, it's so uniquely human, it is the first thing that Adam and Eve That's right. Experience is a loss of dignity.

Yes, yes. The shame with being naked. You're right. Sorry, you're getting behind the scenes. I'm slurping my coffee, but at least I'm not slurping your coffee. I always— Dennis's wife makes such good coffee, and I often steal it.

But dignity, that's from the very beginning.

Sean, do you— I don't mean to pull you in here if you don't want to be, but do you have a good definition of dignity? Have you—

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If you thought about it, do you possess it?

I've been known to step over the line.

He's been known to step over the line and not have it.

You said you mean, yeah, cross the dignity line, right? Yeah. No, no, no. But that's different than when we step on— when guys step on other guys.

Well, let's, let's put a pin in this for a moment. I want to go to something that I really don't want us to let go of. Which was the second part of your topic.

Oh, we'll have to do it another time.

Okay.

It's really worthy.

Do you make other people happy?

Yeah, it's a huge, huge issue and it can't be done in 5 minutes. It's a very interesting question. What is the definition of dignity? I have— I don't have any. It would be interesting to look it up. It's very hard to write a dictionary. Very hard. I always thought about that because we all know these words. But, you know, you know, the famous Supreme Court justice about pornography.

Yeah. You know, when you see it, it can't be defined. Yeah. So there are two main definitions in Merriam-Webster. Okay.

One is formal reserve or seriousness. Formal reserve or seriousness of— seriousness.

I don't think that's what it is at all.

And number 2 is the quality of being worthy, honored, or esteemed.

That one's okay.

Well, that's just a bunch of synonyms. Yeah, it's not— it— the— there's a certain beauty to the fact that it can't be defined.

Yeah, you're right. Well, this— I went through a phase of reading 19th century American and British novels, and one of the things that I loved about them is that they would capitalize virtues. They would capitalize the D in dignity, even if it were in the middle of a sentence, or the P in prudence, or the—

you know, wait, they didn't capitalize all nouns?

No.

Oh, they— so why did they capitalize prudence?

Because I think it's like a care— it's like a— it's a defined concept. It's a thing unto it. It's like a person. And I love that. It gave it a kind of weight. And it's like dignity is— I mean, people, we don't talk about what does it mean to be dignified? Or what does it mean to be prudent? Or what does it mean to be, to be, I don't know, name another virtue. Temperate. Like, people used to really, like, they used to have study groups where they would talk about a virtue and what does it mean and how to in this situation, how would you practice it? Or do you ever have to subvert it? And it was like it was its own character in people's lives. And it's just, it's just not. It's just, we don't, we don't ever talk about what this means. Except we do on Dennis and Julie.

Did, did parents teach kids? I'm thinking with girls, for example, Would I— didn't I have a daughter? I assume, though, girls are told, especially until the last generation when girls wore skirts, that you were— I assume you were told, keep your legs together.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Okay. So what was the— what was the reason parents would give? It's not ladylike.

Yeah, lady. That's what my parents would tell me.

They would. They would say that. Okay.

It's polite.

All right. Polite. Okay. So ladylike. The polite is separate, but ladylike is a dignified issue. It's undignified for a woman to sit with her legs open.

You know what this is?

That affair?

Yes. Yes.

So that might be an example. And there aren't many. Of where parents teach children what dignified or dignity means. Like, that's the only one I could come up with, which is odd given that I didn't—

Maybe dignity is like, what obligations do you have to yourself?

Yeah, but if you say that word today, people will just say you owe it to yourself to take, you know, to treat yourself well. They don't think dignity is—

You know what this is?

By the way, this is the thing. Forgive me, but this is so— it's so important. The lack of clothing is the first example of non-dignity, right? And it's the first problem for the human is non-dignity. I, you know, I make a big deal and I'm virtually an alone voice on the way in which people dress in public now.

We— you're not a lone voice. I share it except on airplanes. That's where we majorly disagree.

Oh, that's interesting because it's on airplanes. Yeah, I most notice it.

I know, I know.

So a guy is wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Is it not an issue to you on an airplane? Yeah.

Yeah, it's not an issue.

So where is it an issue?

Everywhere else in the street. Well, maybe not in the street, but, you know, like going into the office. Sean, um, he's wearing a shirt. No, like going— I don't know, you're— you know what, it's a good point. I, I, you know, on a nice date in your church.

Church. Oh, it blows my mind. But he— I gotta say, on the plane, when I see adult men in a t-shirt and jeans or a t-shirt and shorts, the first thing I think of is how inconceivable in my mind it would be that my father would dress that way. And I associated my father with being dignified. But that— it's a dead concept.

Well, you know, I'll tell you, I was watching footage from 1960s New York City and everyone walking up and down the street looked like they were dressed for—

You can't even say church. You have to use the Academy Awards.

Beautiful.

Yes.

And I went, oh my gosh, this is such a lost era. So I don't mind it. I think the airplanes, they are— they treat you like garbage on airplanes and you have to be comfortable. But everywhere else, I mean, it's normal now, but the loss of formality in the workplace, I think, is really a tragedy.

Oh, definitely a tragedy. But the point that I want to make to people, because, because there are so many reasons it's a tragedy, I just wanted to note that you wear dignity when you dress nicely. Dignity. That's, that's something we know for a fact that when there are dress codes for students, there's much less violence in classrooms and the grades are elevated.

I think dignity is also like, what standard do you hold yourself to? What are lines that you will not cross?

You're right. But I don't know if people think that way, but it's not.

That doesn't mean what you want. It's, it's like, what, what are the, what are the guardrails, or what are the rules that I'm going to establish for myself that I'm going to follow no matter what? Not, not what I want to do in a situation.

Most people wouldn't have an answer to your question because they wouldn't, they wouldn't know to what you're making reference. That's why I, I raised the issue of how many Americans would leave a note on the windshield of a car that they had scraped?

Oh, by the way, after we filmed that episode, I went down to the parking lot and someone scraped the back of my car pretty—

and left nothing.

Nothing, nothing. And it's worse than when I scraped the celebrity's car. Much worse. Didn't leave a note. But, but, you know, uh, yeah.

This is one of the few times Sean has asked a stupid question.

Few times?

Yeah, few. He's a bright guy.

Can you repeat it?

Yeah, would I rather on the airplane be next to a moral guy wearing a t-shirt or an immoral guy wearing a tie? Of course the moral guy wearing a t-shirt. That's absurd. Would I rather sit next to a mass murderer who wore a tie or a savior of children who was naked?

You know when dignity can really be defined? Breakups.

Whether you preserve the dignity of the person you're breaking up with, whether you preserve your own dignity. Oh, if you— wait, if you broke up with them?

No, if you got broken up with. Oh, or no matter how— I mean, either.

Oh, you mean so is it—

you're not gonna call, you're not gonna melt into a puddle of ice cream, right?

That's right, that's right, that's right.

That is like— that is a huge test of dignity.

Thou art right.

And actually, I think my, my previously mentioned definition of dignity applies. What are the rules that you're going to follow no matter what, and especially when you want to do the opposite? That's right. That's a breakup. When someone breaks up with you, you want to call them. That's all you want to do. You want to beg them to get back with, you know.

Yeah.

And you will go, no, my dignity is more important than that. They broke up with me. I'm going to treat myself.

I know. Oh, excuse me. Oh, just got a cramp in my leg. Ah, okay, we're done.

So, uh, geez, that's a bad feeling. I had that once swimming. You can't imagine the pain.

Only once?

I know, a few times. I, you know, bananas, potassium really helps.

Yeah, and I have low potassium. It's funny you should mention that. It's something that I should even know.

It's terrifying.

How do you know that?

That was like when we had Spider on the wall in this episode.

I have paid a price for my, my perhaps excessive sense of dignity. How? I, I, as odd as it sounds, I would have been more successful earlier.

Oh, I mean, same.

I agree with you.

Oh, totally.

But it's, it's totally worth it.

I agree.

Totally worth it.

I agree. Also, in 10 years from now, do you want to look back and say, oh God, oy vey.

Okay, let's wrap it up. Take it away, Jules.

You take it away.

I would, but we have—

try. I really actually—

okay, fine, try. So hi everybody, just want you to know you should, you should get in touch with us. We love hearing from you. And certainly I do. I can't speak for Julie. That was good.

I love how you did the same. I love hearing from you.

I know that's from you. Yes, we love hearing.

And what's my email?

And Julie's email is—

no, no, no, stop.

No, he don't. How do you know he's whispering to me?

I can hear.

Where?

Somewhere. None of your business.

He's trying to preserve my—

please try, actually.

Julie at juliehartman.com. No, it's julie-hartman.com.

Julie at julie-hartman.

Julie at julie-hartman, period, not com.

And what— speaking of social media, what is my social media handle? Try @Julie Do you really not know?

That's correct.

Okay. What's my middle name? You do know this. You do know it. The convert.

Ruth.

Ruth. Julie R. Hartman. What's your Instagram?

I have an Instagram account. It's, it's not worth going there. Go to DennisPrager.com.

Go to Dennis Prager on Instagram and at Dennis Prager on Twitter.

But really, DennisPrager.com.

Okay, thanks. Shalom.

Bye.

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